PASCO 2050 comprehensive plan update listening session

2:18:11Okay, so um Mr. Chairman Planning Commission members, um David Goldstein, um the this concludes the public hearing part of this um meeting today. However, long range planning does have a presentation, a listening session for the PASCO 2050 comprehensive plan updates. So that's should take approximately possibly one hour. So would you like to take a recess before that time? Before

2:18:41that starts or Uh

2:18:43if we do it needs to be brief because I have a

2:18:46Yeah, I've got a four thirty I gotta leave. So I guess we'll just move forward with that.

2:18:52I was gonna ask too if if there's a certain time we can shorten it. So what time frame does it? We he he

2:19:01he and I both need to be gone in about thirty minutes.

2:19:04Thirty minutes, we'll we'll keep it super super brief.

2:19:08Can I ask you something? Do you have this in digital that you can forward that to us?

2:19:12Say that again.

2:19:13Do you have this presentation that you can forward to us? Yes. Because I have to leave, so Yes.

2:19:18Please. Okay. I just went through this with you, so if you don't mind, I'm gonna excuse myself. Yeah, offer much more.

2:19:25No, that's okay. We'll follow back up.

2:19:28Yes, please. If you can follow

2:19:29the case, you can't.

2:19:29Well you're not taking you don't need a quorum because you don't have any more action to take, but Do you need to call the clothes? If you all would prefer this be presented at a later date because half of you are leaving, I mean that's up to the Planning Commission.

2:19:44Yeah, I mean I would like to hear hear about it. I I already went through it so that's right. Yeah. And you you're getting a digital copy of it.

2:19:54So um We do have our consultants here. Yeah.

2:20:01Yeah. We can we can come back and that was one of

2:20:04those go if you if you can't stay then Yeah, okay. Then you just take on the responsibility you've already done it and you're gonna do it. And I guess everybody else will stay here. Yep. Okay. Yeah,

2:20:18thanks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman

2:20:19Mariano.

2:20:20Yeah, yeah.

2:20:24Well, thank you. Thank you, everyone. I'm Valerie Brookins. I'm with Planning and Development Department and also the project manager on the Comprehensive Plan update. So the purpose today is really just to give a real brief overview, um, which you all are familiar with the Comp plan. So this will be really abbreviated. Just tell you about the project timeline. And really the purpose is just to start the engagement with you guys to help guide this plan. So that's where it was designed

2:20:54to be a listening session to just get some input. on some of the things that you think we should consider as we move forward. Um but of course we are also open to coming back in a similar format. We're also if you want to have a workshop, you know, to dive in deeper, we can always do that too. So I am gonna turn it over to our consultant, uh Steve Shoecraft. He is with HDR. And so we'll run through this real quick. Thank you so much. Thank

2:21:23you. Thank you very much. Yes.

2:21:27Hi, I'm Steve Steve Sheecraft, a planner with HGR Engineering Incorporated. We're a national, international company, but we've got a big presence in the Tampa Bay area. We're doing some other projects for Pasco County. We're working with all the regional local governments on Comprehensive planning, small area planning, zoning reform, transportation projects, wide variety of service to local governments in the region. And I think it's I think we should we will be back to you for work sessions

2:21:58when we as we develop the plan. So this is a long-term process, so you will see plenty of of Valerie and my team and other folks on my team as we move through this process.

2:22:09Again, if we go quickly tonight, well, this will be a quick presentation and some feedback, and then we'll let you all get back to your private lives. But the idea, we've been doing a series of work sessions with groups around the county at to supplement our research in the more technical aspects of growth and development across Pasco County. Um we've we're diving into past planning processes and the documentation of feedback that that the counties receive through those processes and we're supplementing that with

2:22:39these rounds of listening sessions. So we've had Five Five so far Um a couple more on the agenda and then we'll continue to do these as we move through the process so we can keep people up to speed with where we're headed. Um and give folks a chance to provide a

2:22:53feature.

2:22:59Right now it's um it's very broad. It's actually sort of broad but not very deep. So we're not we're not touching a lot of folks across the county, but we are trying to get geographically diverse groups um and we're trying to get different voices, but we'll dive further into that process as we move forward. So in terms of feedback, that'd be a great Bit of feedback for us is how we might do that and what groups we need to reach out to as that kicks off. Um so these sessions have been designed. I usually

2:23:29give maybe a ten minute presentation and then we turn over the rest of the meeting to listen and take careful notes and sort of press as people mention something we try to dig in a little bit deeper than just Traffic's problem. W what do you mean? Where? What kind? What do you think's causing it? So we try to d we try to delve into those comments as people make them. But mostly we're listening And we're trying to guide the conversation a little bit. It this effort is going to result in what we're calling an issues and ideas report. So that's the compilation of what we've learned through these listening sessions, but

2:23:59also our review of past engagement activities. So the county has done for the last five plus years a whole series of different kinds of activities to get feedback from the community about what they care about. where they think the county's heading and what they're concerned about. So we're mining that data. and fleshing it out with some of these sessions that we've had right now. That report will be available in the next month to month and a half and staff will make sure that you're aware of either send it directly or make you aware of how you can access it

2:24:29and review it. So you know about the comprehensive plan, I don't need to go through this with you all. Um you know, state requires local governments in the in in Florida to develop comprehensive plan. Comprehensive plans provide your authority to zone. So it's the basis, fundamental basis for your land development code, but it also provides guidance for Capital investment program, conservation investments, transportation program, and then we're folding in some of the work the county's doing related to sustainability and resilience. It's

2:25:03Uh as we've talked to people we ask them, do you know about the plan and do are you aware of what development is gonna happen around you? And I noticed this afternoon, a lot of your discussion is to help educate people about history, about what's coming. And I can tell you our observation is that it's kind of hard when you look at the plan to know that, to know what's coming. If you were uninitiated and you pulled up the county's comprehensive plan, or went to the website, it's really tough to tell what's going to happen around the corner. up the road, down the road, um, and the timing

2:25:33of that. So one of the things we need to do in this process is to make those um the future more transparent so people understand what's in the pipeline, what's committed, um, what's next and where the sort of edges between different kinds of development occur.

2:25:50Um we th we use this slide as a starting point for discussion. It sort of kicks off the the notion that it's an important exercise. So you have um over 250,000 people in the pipeline that are expected to move to the county um by the year 2045. So in the next 20 to 25 years, you're gonna grow Um and it you're gonna add an additional number of people that's similar in scale to this ho all the people living in

2:26:20the city of Tampa. So we want to give people an a s sort of frame of reference. If you think about two hundred fifty thousand people. That's how many people that live in the city of Tampa. So people can start to think that that's significant. But when you look also, the second part of this discussion is when you look at the curve. That's a similar rate of growth as you've experienced since around 1980. So we as we talk to folks, everyone says, I've been in the county for a certain number of years. We made an intentional choice to be here for certain reasons, and then we say, okay, well that's

2:26:511990, so you can see what happens from there until now, and what we're expecting is a similar curve. or a similar straight line up until 2045. So we're trying to help people understand that there is a lot of development in the pipeline. Shaping that development is really fundamental. Preparing for it, serving it, shaping it is really critical.

2:27:15Um y again, this is information that you all know well. The Com Plan covers a lot of bases, so we want to make sure people understand that it's not just purely land use and development, but it's conservation, housing, mobility. uh parks and recreation, public facilities. And then at the last one, that coordination element, it's also about how you make decisions. So the Comp Plan has recommendations about intergovernmental coordination, about processes like this that folks go through. Um, you know, we have early notions that it appears

2:27:45you spend an awful lot of time doing Comprehensive plan amendments. which are kind of like land development code. approval actions. And they're almost stacked right on top of one another. The Comp Plan is supposed to be a larger policy document that guides broader decisions. Then the land development code is where things get executed and detailed. So there may be a way to separate those two documents a little bit. So you've got higher level guidance in the comp plan, and then you use your land development code

2:28:15to detail how projects get delivered location by location. So if it's a minor uptick or uptick in density on a project Maybe the comp plan can absorb that level of change if it doesn't change the character of a broad area. But the land development code decision, if you want to change your zoning, that becomes a separate discussion about appropriateness, about compatibility, about impacts on roadways, schools, public facilities.

2:28:40Can I ask you a question about that though? Because most of what we process is amendments to the future land use map. So are you suggesting we not Have a feature line use map?

2:28:50You need to have a future land use map. That's required

2:28:52by state

2:28:53load. But I'm just trying to say how

2:28:54do you get out of

2:28:54that amending map? You don't have to have the land use map you have now. It could be a more generalized map. That's a possibility that we could look into. Because right now essentially it's the same your land use and your future land use map and your land development code are practically the same things. Okay. So it's something that we need to look in we've talked about with staff very preliminarily looking into that possibility. So you're doing you wouldn't be doing amendments at every meeting, you'd be doing amendments on a three month, six month cycle. That would be broader scale amendments.

2:29:26Um

2:29:27didn't we used to do that? More like that?

2:29:30Used to be the state the Chapter one sixty three required that you you had amendments at a more limited time frame. Yeah,

2:29:36i i large scale amendments could only be like twice a year, but the state eliminated that requirement.

2:29:41Okay. All right.

2:29:44Um the and the the thought of that is that you could also s staff could focus on long-range planning could focus more on the long range questions. Your short range or zoning land development code staff could focus on the land development code questions. And you'd have a they wouldn't be again sort of stacked up and doing similar things, one comp plan related, one LDC related. This schedule, the way staff laid this out, it's a long-term process to build this planning effort. So we're starting kind of slowly and carefully. These first

2:30:14two years are primarily research and starting to think about the broad structure of the plan to the extent that it gets changed and adjusted. And then we move into years three and four, which is the actual drafting of the plan element. So that's when we look at the language, what gets carried forward from the old plan, what gets adjusted, and what gets added. So there's a big question about what moves from the current document to a new document. So the most minor approach would be a strike-through and add-in to the existing document, but

2:30:44there's a possibility to restructure segments of it in a more significant way. So that's what we're trying to find out, what's appropriate. So there are research supports that, will support that decision, and then we move into the the actual development of each of the elements. And then the adoption cycle takes some time to get through. all those markups and approvals and that's about a year at the end of the cycle where it would work through um sort of general public comments come to you all, a series of um workshops and review sessions,

2:31:15and it would move to the County Commission.

2:31:20Um so that was a c the quick Quick introduction that we've provided to folks as we've talked to them. The listening sessions, we try to get folks to organize comments around three primary topics. Most important assets to the county, biggest challenges, and a brighter future. And as you probably would expect, people tend to fall into the biggest challenges. category. So we try to start with assets to try to understand what people value about the county

2:31:50first and then we move into a discussion about challenges and then steps that could be taken to secure a brighter future for the county.

2:32:00And that's what we've done so far. So um depending on your time and availability, we could um Um listen to your all's statements about these things, make some notes and then plan on coming back when we've got a little more time. So I have two comments.

2:32:16Um One is that Our current comprehensive plan has A number of policies that say that by some date we're going to adopt some amendment to the Land Development Code. I my guess is there's probably like thirty plus policies to that effect. many of which we have not actually done. And so I would hope as part of this effort that The consultant and staff or going through those policies and deciding

2:32:46which of these are we really going to do And which do we have time to do? And then if we don't have time to do them or we don't have a desire to do them anymore We really should strike them from the complain because I don't think it helps to have a Policy saying we're gonna do something that we never did. Um we're struggling with this in northeast Pasco with the design standards for commercial. I mean it says we were gonna do them. We haven't it's been

2:33:13fifteen years now since we said we were gonna do them and we Maybe are just now starting to do them, but that's probably the only one I think we're working on. Um There's probably twenty others that we're not actively working on. So I think we need to take a hard look about whether We really are going to do those and if we Really are going to do them, we should develop staff or consultant time to actually work on them and not just

2:33:40Yeah. Where the public thinks we're doing something that we're not doing. Um And then my other comment is I guess talking about assets, so Pasco has done a pretty good job at least in the last I'd say ten to fifteen years of Trying to make sure that we have adequate sites for employment. You heard about an example today with C P E V We've reserved and now we're starting to see the fruits of that labor. We're Office and industrial users are finally coming to Pasco and

2:34:11We've got a huge Mafa campus coming to the center of the of the county. I guess My main question is for the consultant is

2:34:21Should we stop d I mean we have a lot of policies that are directed on preserving employment on making sure we get more employment, doing everything we can As Joel said earlier, if if C P V wanted more employment we'd say, Heck yeah, give us more of it. Um

2:34:40Is there a possibility that at some point we have too much employment? I mean, I don't know. I mean, are we or are we reserved too much land for employment? And that I we the problem is we've been so geared up on making sure we have land for employment, I don't know when we should stop. Like what we said. Okay, we've got enough now. There's enough reserved Maybe we should encourage some other uses too. Um So I'd I'd like to hear from an expert as to where when we stop when we should stop doing that.

2:35:10Yeah let me know.

2:35:15Tackle the first first one and then

2:35:17just tag on to that too though. Okay.

2:35:19Yeah.

2:35:20I I always I don't think I s this has ever been a s answered for me is Employment is what? What kind of a use are you f referring to? When you say reserve for employment.

2:35:32So what what we typically mean is opposite and light industrial uses. That's what we typically mean. Commercial uses generate employment, but our com plan is focused on preserving off employment for office and industrial users, basically. So as

2:35:50a distribution

2:35:50center, uh is that another. That's considered a primary primary employment. Under current county policy, yes, that is it used to, we would encourage. Okay. In the calories.

2:36:02So the first um I I think the first question about the the where there's timeframes of commitments indicated in the comp plan that staff hasn't been able to deliver for various reasons is really fundamental to get that cleaned up and to think about a little more of a strategic perspective about implementation of the comp plan. So under state law, we don't have to have those. objectives um at uh necessarily have the time scale as tightly defined. So the comp plan in some respects is kind of

2:36:32a long wish list of things you'd like to see happen. But we need to have an action plan which puts that those things in order. And the county can say yes, we're going to commit to deliver those things to implement the comp plan in a certain order and people can see what's coming now and what's going to be down the road. Right now you have all those things stacked up in a queue. Um And I imagine that creates some anxiety among folks because you're not making progress on them. Says you are, but you're not. Um so yeah, I think that's fundamental to get that organized better.

2:37:02We we did some comparing work for another community, um smaller but a smaller community, but they identified something like seventeen hundred Um objectives and actions they were going to take. You know, an error observation was you could probably do about 20 of them. So let's get down to those first 20. And then you can get some make some commitments to deliver on those statements about actions you're gonna undertake and uh make some progress. Because if you leave the seventeen hundred as all equally as important, you're not gonna you're not gonna

2:37:32get anywhere. So we uh we appreciate that challenge and I that's one one of the things that we'll get to is from an action planning standpoint for implementation.

2:37:40And you listed a you listed a few questions, I think three questions.

2:37:44Yeah, the second question that you'd asked was about the

2:37:48one you asked about the the assets, about the challenges and there was one other one I think. But my point is that I think they're all great questions. I and I think We'd all have some comments to make, but I mean I'd like to know what questions you want input from and then give us a chance to think about it. And rather than just an off the cuff thing because I think uh You know, I'd rather come back and have a more Probably a fruitful discussion about What what

2:38:18assets do we have that we can use to better service our what challenges do we have that we need to overcome. You know, those th those kind of things I think it I think it takes a little bit of thought.

2:38:32Yeah, I wanted to respond to the question about capacity. Um we are we one of our um subconsultants on the project is called SB Freedman Associates. They're economists and development advisors, and they're helping us do an evaluation of how much land you have identified for different land uses and if you have enough based on the projections. So we are gonna take a look at that. It's it'll be similar to the work that you did for or the or that county commissioners did for the multifamily mor moratorium to try to see if you really

2:39:02do if you have too much or too little and when you're gonna run out of that entitlement in the future. So that's a uh exercise we're working through now. So some of those are The support commercial, like the things that people have talked about in other meetings, car washes and self-storage buildings and gas stations are are also all serve the population. So those are things that follow and serve the folks that you have living here now. The more primary industries are that are things that attract. workers

2:39:32to the region. So those are your the as you mentioned, office office type employment, medical employment um are attractors and have the potential to bring more jobs to the county and and cut back on some of those long haul commutes. So you're still Serving You know, as you're sort of growing out of that stage where you're almost exclusively a bedroom community, building more sort of self um or self, you know, county generated employment for folks in the county and and eventually folks

2:40:02to commute from out of the county to here. Um we are going to look at that and maybe that's an early subject for a work session is the results of that analysis. And we can we can provide our initial observations about whether you've got enough or too much entitlement on the books now and where that where you might direct that through the planning process.

2:40:23You know, one area I've always had a concern about is the agricultural industry.

2:40:29We are taking land that used to be uh Growing crops, oranges, a variety of And as we diminish the land use there What's gonna replace it? I think the largest person that I know of is Wilton Simpson owns a chicken farm out in the Withacoochie area. Where are we gonna beef? Our carrots, our vegetables. where are they gonna be grown at? Or we can consume all the land that's available.

2:41:01For homes. I like to eat. Yeah.

2:41:07Well I I would just like to add I I thought it was interesting 'cause I mean I was raised on a farm in Michigan and I I too value farmland. But when we went on our um tour with the Northeast folks, we stopped at um Mr Goose. With the Kumquat farm. And so that was one question I had for him. I was interested in, you know, you drive out there, you see pasture land, but that's what I was asking him. You know, what

2:41:37agriculture do we actually still have here? Like what are the products? And he said. Honestly, there isn't besides the few few groves, few conquests, but other than that it's pasture land. So I found that to be very interesting and I I mean not saying that you know it's Is is the only perspective or the only person that maybe has that answer, but coming from someone

2:42:08that still had agricultural land, I found that to be interesting and kind of surprising.

2:42:13Well there used to be a dairy farm out in Zephyrhills. It's God.

2:42:17Mm-hmm. But like they they were s how they were explaining it was, you know, people are volunteering to sell their land and the price of land, no one unless it's been in the family and you choose to keep it, which a lot of them are selling, no one can come in to that market and make money farming. So that's you know, like those are the concerns that we have to balance out and I mean there's still you know people that want land preserved for

2:42:48land being preserved and have an open space and and that's a conversation too but it was it was very interesting to me.

2:42:56And I would add to that that one of the reasons that our board and then eventually the legislature mandated that solar farms be allowed in agricultural areas is because That may be the new crop for many of these areas because where they can generate some money from Hag Land.

2:43:15Well, my concern is the future for food. Or we can become a we w at one time I think we still I don't know, statistically if we're still an exporter country But if we continue on just the way I heard some of us speaking here, we're gonna be importing a a lot well, we import a lot of orange juice from Brazil or South America. Pretty soon. We're gonna be importing beef.

2:43:45I think we need to to re evaluate some way of allowing Agricultural land to allow people to maintain it Whether it's a family farm or an individual farm. And not allow them the opportunity to say, Well heck, I can make a lot of money

2:44:08So I will tell you there was at one point a movement to effectively do that through a T D R program. But the consultant who told us about 'cause where they could transfer the density that otherwise would have been on their farm to somewhere else in the county. The problem is and then, you know, maybe made some money from that transfer of density. The problem is the consultant said that only works if you're going to say no to density elsewhere in the county. And we historically have not said no. I mean we we're everybody

2:44:39that comes in we say yes to. So as long as As long as we're saying yes to everybody, why would you buy a TDR from a farmer? That's the issue. So there is a way to do what you're talking about. But We've historically not been willing to do the ex the other step of that, which is say no to development in the urban area unless they buy a T D R from Somebody in the ag area.

2:45:01And then on the to not to overly I mean I guess to to build on that too, you've got to have the receiving zone that can accept more density. And so you're having pushback in the places that probably would be receiving zones from multifamily And you're still not at a very high density. Twenty four dwelling unit per acre is not, you know, that's still a surface park multifamily project. It's not Folks call it urban density, it's not really urban density at that scale yet, but it's raising a lot of concerns. So if you were to if you were

2:45:31to have a receiving zone, if someone sold that right on a farm and that were to be delivered You know, like sell one right there and you can build five more units down here. Do you have the real estate to support those five additional units on top of your existing zoning? So it it it's a to the T D R economics of the TDRs are really tricky. So you do have to do kind of aggressive conservation on the conservation side of the line and then you've got to have The receiving zones with enough. ability to absorb additional density.

2:46:01I mean the other thing you can do is buy the development rights from the farmer, but then you need a funding source to do that.

2:46:07Yeah.

2:46:07And you know, histor you know, our penny money has historically been used to buy environmental lands, not

2:46:17Farmer.

2:46:18W what has happened though is there has been a lot of purchasing by the state. of of development rights from people. So they can keep their land But the property will never be developed and they're not The state's not buying them to develop. They're just they're compensating them not to develop their land and that's the way they do it.

2:46:39Yeah, I realize that the the last place I lived in, License in Kentucky, they were doing that. They were taking the tobacco money that was you that was

2:46:50supposedly advocated f or supposed to have been used for medical but they use the tobacco industry gave Licensing or Fed County the money to purchase basically uh development rights from the horse farmers. Of course most of those farmers were very wealthy to begin with. If you want to call them farmers and the rancher, you can't call them ranchers. They call them farmers up there. The horseman industry, you know. Right.

2:47:19Yeah, and you've seen that I think there's uh where you've got really high value in that horse farm land like in Oakala or Loudon County, Virginia or other places, you've seen those programs work fairly well.

2:47:30So it it is done, but I still have a concern about Yeah, where is our agriculture industry going and that's the concern I have.

2:47:40Well I think the line when we start when we start mapping things, that line between what's suburban development and what's rural is really a an important line to draw and to debate. So you know that that goes to the boundaries of your urban service area. Um the how much density is allowed on that urban side of the line. You know, if everything gets carved up into one acre lots, I'm not sure you've got open space and the kind of rural character people want to preserve. So th those questions are really tricky questions and I think we'll be

2:48:10getting into that In about a year and a half probably.

2:48:16But I was just gonna add we have had quite a few comments even on on this topic, but what what's the new innovative ways we can grow food? Hydroponics, you know, smaller greenhouses, where do we allow smaller units to be?

2:48:35So s you know, the consideration of those topics also.

2:48:41Yeah.

2:48:47I mean I was just gonna say I agree with you. I think it it'd be nice to come back to this discussion uh you know and have some more of it. But I do have a couple of comments that popped into my head if I can. So you know, just you know, you're talking about two hundred and fifty thousand people coming, so I don't know what that boils down to, student wise, but if I take a stab probably forty Forty thousand. Forty thousand students, so that equates to about thirty plus schools probably. So certainly

2:49:17a critical thing we need to be cognizant of um David and I were in a conversation with developer the other day. I th I think I think we've evolved and developed a pretty good process. or at least securing school sites and making sure we have capacity. But again, that's just a critical thing we have to be cognizant of and and and intentional about doing And then um You know, things I've heard and again pardon me, I'm not the comp land expert. Some

2:49:47of these probably live in an LDC versus the Complan, but you know, I serve on the Dade City Planning Board as well, and you know, there's concerns about forty foot lots and I know Chuck you've mentioned about landscaping and trees and and and you know even if you have forty foot lots making sure they look halfway decent and It sounds like some of that maybe the commission's already maybe addressed to some degree, but just keeping those kind of things at the forefront and and putting

2:50:18if it's in the comp land or L D C whatever the case, we just need to kinda be growing the right way and in a in a place that's desirable to live and having appropriate trees and and look and things like that. You know, I was talking to Jordan Schrader right before the meeting and just Gosh, you know, we g just gotta be careful about just sheer growth for the sake of sheer growth and and trying to have some plan, which hopefully that's what the call plan's for, is to kinda have a plan by which we go

2:50:48about it. So

2:50:50Yeah, I think it's all good comments, yeah. I mean we have like what, twenty thousand acres of uh preservation land right now.

2:51:01Yes.

2:51:01Yeah, and yet w when when somebody develops a a property and builds homes on it, we make 'em set aside a park.

2:51:09Yeah.

2:51:09You know, may maybe they should set aside a place for a farm. Yeah, instead of a park. I mean uh those are just things that

2:51:17or they or they pay into a fund and you can serve land in your rural areas or something like that. So sort of think about how those things relate.

2:51:23There's so many ideas. I mean if you we had time to discuss it. And uh I I think well I think a work session would be a good idea. Yes.

2:51:34Yeah. 'Cause

2:51:34I think we're all very interested in it. Yes. Yeah.

2:51:38Yeah, I'll work with niece and Patty and we'll get the work session set up

2:51:43Okay. What were those three questions?

2:51:54Um so let me go back. And then what things can the county do to secure a brighter future?

2:52:02Yeah.

2:52:02So not again, we were just trying to get people started and we wanted to hear what they had to say about their

2:52:07life started their concerns.

2:52:12Every session we've had has gone at least fifteen minutes over time because people wanted to continue to share their thoughts about the county.

2:52:21Well we uh we'd appreciate it. I think I speak on behalf of the everybody here. I think we'd appreciate having a A session. It wouldn't have to be after one of our meetings as far as I'm concerned.

2:52:33Dedicated time. Right.

2:52:36Yeah,

2:52:36Chuck likes Saturdays.

2:52:40I do like Saturdays.

2:52:45But we we can in pre in getting ready for that, we can do excerpts from some of the research that we've done and craft some questions around some deeper topics so we can um push the discussion a little further.

2:52:57Great.

2:52:58And we would like to, you know, continue these throughout the process. You guys can our sounding board and our our hands-on will have a information, but you know, we're we'll be looking for you all to give direction too. So

2:53:13we appreciate

2:53:14you being spread the process.

2:53:16Appreciate that.

2:53:17Thank you.