P7 CPAL 1809 Hagman and P8 PD 19-073378 MPUD
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Nov 29, 2018
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Nov 29, 2018
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What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 28m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 73% of 355 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Erica Winlands, Planning and Development. I just want to make sure that now the Planning Commission will be now acting as a local planning agency. Okay. Item P7 is a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment, C PAL 1809 Hagman, from residential three to PD plan development.
The subject site is located in the central market area on the north side of Wisterio Loop, approximately 550 feet west of Land Lakes Boulevard.
Here is an aerial view of the subject site. The Pasco County School District Office and Land O' Lakes High School is located to the north. The Pasco County Adela Lake Nutrition Center is located immediately adjacent to the east. There are single family dwelling units that are located on the southern boundary of the parcel.
The subject site is approximately forty six acres and is vacant. This comprehensive plan amendment has an accompanying MPD zoning amendment.
The applicant is proposing to add an additional 17 dwelling units for a total of 130 single family dwelling units. Under the current REST-3 flu, 113 dwelling units are permitted.
Here's just an inset map representing the current res3 flu. And the proposed PD feature land use.
The subject site is predominantly surrounded by Res through Res 3, and I said and as I said before, the Pasco's County School District Office is located to the north, along as Land O' Lakes High School. And uh there are wetlands located to the north, south and west.
The proposed project is providing for a mix of land use intensities in open space.
As sub area policy is associated with this comprehensive plan amendment, the sub area policy will place a density cap on the number of potential dwelling units of one hundred and thirty. A transportation needs assessment was not required.
And with that, the Planning and Development Department recommends the LPA find this amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and to recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners. Thank you.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Okay. Are there any questions? Chris? Just refresh my memory and I know I oughta know this already. But I always struggle with this. So when you have the feature land use.
Yes.
I mean what there's not necessarily an entitlement that they get rezoned, but kinda explain that. You know what I mean?
you can have per acre depending on the developer developable acres. So in this case our wetlands. So there are I believe there are 36 developable acres and that's where the calculation was used for the 113 dwelling units. If that makes any sense.
Well I guess more my question is is it's not res three now.
It is the subject side is res three.
It's already zoned REST three? No, it doesn't
have the zoning
of
REST three.
So that's really more my question. It has a land use as a
land. Yeah. So it's up to one hundred and thirteen dwelling use, depending on the zoning.
Right.
But your question is are they entitled to zone it up to that? No question. There's no they don't have any legal r right to do that.
You still have to go through the process and
but that's P e P e is their attempt to zone it.
Yes.
But then they're asking for an additional seventeen on top of that.
Yes, they're adding for the additional, hence why we're going to plan development. For the future land use.
Okay. Any other questions?
So yeah, I do have a question. First I want to disclose um that I reached out to uh Mr. Gadd this morning to chat with him about the um this project and um Uh particularly the the um road issue there. Um
I know it's a little bit more than a little bit. It's uh very close, which she raised a concern earlier about the visioning as there. So my question is Wisteria Loop is is what is that visioned to be in the future?
I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, is a vision collector for Wisteria Loop?
Yeah.
So You know, I I'm gonna raise a question about that because um
I don't really see that being a collector road, especially with Tower Road to the north, or I'm sorry, to be to the south. of there. It seems to me like Um that area if it's gonna be a residential usage going forward, it certainly is now, uh going forward, then that status should be shifted down to Tower Road. Um so I I mean I I would I know the two issues are not necessarily
tied together, but It's a concern that I think um if we addressed it now uh would alleviate a lot of the concerns that some of the residents have. So I'll make that comment maybe through the presentations we can Maybe explore that a little bit more.
Okay.
So is there anyone here for the applicant? Anyone else for the applicant?
Mr. Chairman Clark Hobby. And uh we had discussed and I had requested some extra time to do a joint presentation on this and the rezoning. And I thought what we might do is rather than get started on ours now, but maybe we would have zoning staff do their presentation on that, and then we can start our presentation and then the members of the public could speak to both of them if that meets with the Planning Commission's approval.
Mm, that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm.
Tammy Snyder, current planning.
Admin M Pud, P D nineteen seven three three seven eight. Uh
Is that better? All right. Here's a location map. I almost want to say Ditto. She did a great job on her presentation. Uh oh.
And here is the current zoning districts.
Yeah, we have the future land use. Res three all round, R O R up on the road. Proposed is a rezoning from AR1, Agricultural Residential, to an MPUD to allow one hundred thirty single family detached residences on approximately forty six point seven six seven acres. The minimum lot size proposed is forty feet wide by one hundred feet deep.
There's their master plan.
Presently the subject site is unapproved. The applicant is also seeking the corresponding plan amendment, C PAL eighteen oh nine, for a change in the future land use from Res 3 to PD. Vehicular interconnects to abutting properties are not feasible for this project as there is a wetland along the east boundary, a Pasco County School Site to the north, and a Pasco County Senior Service Center to the east. There is, however, a proposed proposed pedestrian bicycle access to the school site to the north pending Pasco County School Board approval.
The applicant developer shall improve wisteria loop from the project's southwest property line east to US 41 to current county standards. And here is a aerial showing the wetlands, the school site, the Pasco County Senior Service Site on the east.
The proposed request is consistent with the Pasco County Land Development Code, Chapter 400, the MPUD Plan Master Unit Development Section, and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan.
And then we have some snapshots field review of Wisteria Loop.
And there's some access management analysis, some good stuff there. Existing drainage shows showing how the drainage actually goes. A little hard to see. And some proposed entrance buffer details.
PDD recommends approval to the BCC with conditions.
Okay, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. So you talked about it. And I don't know, maybe the applicant will talk about this, but you mentioned um improving my stereo loop to county standards. So what would that What does that look like?
Bring the expert up for you. Right.
Es in Khalil, uh current planning with the planning and development department. So they did a substandard road review. They found that the road is deficient, uh, heading west from US forty one and continuing west. The development agreed to improve the road to county standards, which is twenty two foot wide. Currently it's about if I'm not mistaken. sections of it eighteen foot, some less, some more. But uh it's in pretty poor shape. Those pictures those were taken by me, so I went out there and looked at it. Uh
the road does look bad. There is actually you can't tell too much, but there's a pretty steep grade as you come up. Towards forty one. So including Improvements to the width of the road, resurfacing it, right? Uh they're also going to improve that severe drop-off that you have from 41. So the cars that are heading east on Westerio Loop. They are not parked at a steep angle and then trying to negotiate the traffic to their left side. So the grade will
be reduced, so it's a much gentler grade. It will be a better access. Now the improvement is gonna start from Forty one. all the way to the western edge of their property. That's the section of the roadway that they're gonna be improving. They will be doing a little bit more presentation to show you exactly what improvements they're doing, but uh answer your question.
Yeah. I think yeah. I was curious about the width.
Thank you.
Okay.
Any other questions for me?
No, I don't think so.
Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby, PA again for the record. I'll try to speak up because I think now some of the folks in the back can't hear very well.
Coralyn's gonna be bringing up a series of exhibits, if we can go to exhibit one. I have with me today, and I am representing Pulti Holmes, the applicant today on this project, which is the contract purchaser and proposed developer. I have with me Steve Henry, who most of you all know is a transportation engineer from Linkson Associates. Brian Surak, who's a civil the project civil engineer with Clearview Land Design. Kelly Love, who's a planner at Clearview Land Design. And uh lastly,
you'll hear from Joel too, who's an attorney who most of you all know, who represents the landowner Bob Hagman. As as you've heard about this project, the proposal is a plan amendment change to PD and a corresponding uh uh zoning change to MPUD. the purpose of which is to create a hundred and thirty unit gated slash walled community. Um the proposed plan amendment is only a proposed
increase in seventeen units. The purpose of which is even with Res 3, because of the calculation of of densities under the comp plan now and the amount of wetlands on site, we really couldn't get to the Res 3 density level under the current Res 3. And so if you're gonna do a subdivision and you know the lots will fit and the comp plan doesn't fit, you need a few more, this was a simple way to do it. Without going to Res VIX or a higher future land use that might
portend negative things for the rest of the community. So as most of you all know, uh this area along 41 is in a uh an area that's been suburbanizing for many years. It's part of the central market area. It's in close uh proximity to uh utilities. Major roadway infrastructure on Linda Lakes Boulevard slash 41. And there are numerous MPUDs that have been approved in this area since 2000.
And just in the last couple of years, I was involved in the two projects that are now where the Copper Spring community is being built that were known then as Lester Dairy MPUD and FCI. M PUD and both of which have several hundred units and are substantially larger than this project. Um we've had a a a good amount of interaction with the community on this project. um including a community meeting and I've met with a couple of the community leaders
you're likely to hear from today several times and um we've done our level best to try to address their concerns. And as I go through my presentation I'm gonna try to give you a few things that we've done To show you in the conditions and other things that we're doing to try to make sure that this project does not detract from their community and isn't con uh inconsistent with the the plan for this area as the county has adopted for many years. So the first thing I wanted to show you is a few slides
here and I'm gonna ask Coralin to move through this in just a little bit. But this area, this is the 2000 comp plan, and this whole area is planned for Res 3. So Coralin, you can go to the next one.
Just the next slide, I mean. Next pa next page, I mean. No, no, no, just the next page.
There's another page?
Yeah, there's eight of them.
Oh.
Okay. This is the 2025 when the county updated the Comp Plan 2006 and 7. The area remained primarily Res 3 throughout this area. There is some Res 6 on either side, and the area down and here is was still being shown as Res 3, where the Bexley South and Bexley North MPUDs were approved. Go to the next slide. with the next. And in this period of time, the county started to pick up vision map
changes for this area. And at at least as of 2006, the county had identified the crossing for Bexley across the agricultural crossing on the railroad, and then Wisteria Loop as part of the highway vision map. Next line.
And so now you can see this is the condition You got the crossing there and then the road splitting down here after you get across Bexley. with Wisteria up here and then running ultimately down here to a a yet to be named road that goes to Tower. And just incidentally, I would tell the Planning Commission, I don't think our client has any objection to w removing wisteria. From the highway vision map. That uh as long as there's a public roadway there, we're fine with
that. I we also agree it's pretty unlikely because of the proximity of this intersection right here to the light up at Gator Lane where the schools are in uh Withers Wilderness Lake uh Preserve is. It's very unlikely that there'll ever be a signal there that DOT would approve, so we think the functionality of that roadway is something left to be desired. Next slide, please.
So after the 2006 and 2007 comp plan stuff, then the county went through this ULI visioning process, and then uh Mr. Garing came in and helped us create market areas for the county. This property is in market area three, which is known as the suburban market area. And so all of the comp plan policies. basically tell us that we're supposed to be encouraging suburban form development in the central part part of the county, including this project. Next one.
And at the same time when the 2006 7 Comp Plan was adopted, the county created these rural areas. Okay? As you can see, this property is not and has never been part of any of the protected rural areas. Okay? Next slide.
And then you can see this is an even more updated map that's showing the REST III in this area. And now you're seeing the very large planned development down here. That's the Bexley South, Bexley North MPUD. And then this is the area right here that says AGR, which if the plan amendment you just heard on the n northerlymost Bexley property is approved, this would all be planned development. So you'd have 15,000 acres of planned development, very large projects lying in close proximity
to this area to the west. Next slide. Then we'll be done with that exhibit.
And then lastly, I just wanted to emphasize, and this map shows you, and you really don't mean need me highlighting this, that there are a very large number of MPUDs that have been approved along this corridor since about 2000. So you're I know some of the neighbors you're likely to hear from uh are Some of them own large tracks. Yeah, some of them are beautiful tracks and we don't disagree with that and I think that they were thinking maybe that this area was
going to be a rural area or remain rural for a a a long period of time. And I can just tell you, having gone through all of the heartache of the 2006-7 comp plan changes, two ULI panels, the adoption of the market areas, and all the work we've done over the last twelve or fifteen years, this area has never been planned for anything but suburban form residential development at roughly res three. It never has been even the discussion of being in a so-called
rural area are told that we're gonna discourage uh development in the area. Um The next thing we heard from residents um again and again is that folks are worried about traffic. uh in this area. And I think they're really worried Uh that It's not just about our stretch of Wisteria and all of Wisteria right now really is not in great shape, but they're worried that our residents, even after we take our section of Wisteria to
a standard condition, instead of turning left and going straight out to 41 to go south, are for some reason going to go a mile and a half to the right through their neighborhood on a section of road that is clearly substandard. That really defies common sense. The more improvements that people make on a substandard road, the more likely you are to draw more traffic to it. folks want to drive on nice roads. If we repave our section of the road, we widen
it and we reduce that grade transition and you'll hear more about that in just a sec. We believe our folks will go out that way and the traffic studies support that. Um Several of the folks that we spoke to were very worried about people again turning right out of the subdivision and they kept telling us that you can't get out on 41 rush hour in the morning. It's impossible. And this a little bit unusual, but Corlin, if we can go to exhibit two, I may or may
not play both of these, but I I thought it would be instructive. For the uh Planning Commission to see this video. This video is taken at seven fifty six AM. Well, that's I know And it got rendered sideways. The gist of this video, this video is a minute long. It was taking during a school day and after the traffic clears out from the signal when it turns In one minute, two cars pass. Two cars in one minute. I
waited for the next signal at seven fifty nine. and twelve cars passed in one minute and forty-five seconds. Suffice to say, there is plenty of time for folks to pull out on 41 here, and we have a transportation study that backs all that up, but I want to see it myself. And I took the videos and they're there in the record if anyone needs to see that. There is no traffic problem at 41 in Wisteria and when we take this road to a
standard condition and smooth the grade out, there absolutely will not be any traffic problem. Okay? And our transportation engineer will speak in a few minutes about that. The next concern you heard at the community meeting was a lot of the residents in the area live on a lake that really flooded and came up last year. As you all know, we had a very, very wet summer and there's an outfall on both the west and the east side of this property,
but it doesn't go through the property. When we get into engineering and site planning for the property, we're going to be very cognizant of the fact that we don't want to flood the people downstream. We can't change the volume or rate of discharge and our engineer will give you more information about that, but suffice to say, it is extremely unlikely that we could have any on any impact on anyone Down in the lake because they're flowing up past our site and we're discharging into the wetland
system that they discharge into. Okay. The next thing we heard is a lot of the residents were worried about quality of life in general and that they thought that the subdivision itself might somehow be unsightly or detract from property values. Uh Porlan we can go to exhibit four. So we worked with several uh members of the community, community leaders, and we create a series of conditions that reflect in the MPUD and require us to make the improvements
you're going to see on this slide and the next slide. And what you're seeing here is well I'm not even gonna turn this thing on. It's a walled community with extensive plannings on the outside and the inside, but a lot on the outside, so that when folks turn on Wisteria from 41 It's not a blighted, ugly subdivision in any way. It's gonna be a beautiful thing for the subdivision correlate if we can go to the next one. That'd be exhibit five. Um Pulti Homes has
built other similar communities to this and what you're going to see on this slide, this is actually what the entrance is going to look like. I mean we know that we have the renderings, these are the plannings we're going to do and the conditions require the brick pavers. uh accent lighting, the wall you're seeing there and all the landscaping, that's what we're gonna build. So I defy anyone to tell me how building that type of community is somehow going to detract from your area. But again, we want to be good neighbors and we
worked with the community to try to make this a good project. Um next I'm gonna ask Kelly Love to come up from Clearview Land Design and talk a little bit about the specifics of the buffering and landscaping uh and what we've done that far exceeds the code. So Coraline, if we can go to exhibit six.
Hello, Kelly Love. Twelve thirteen East Six Avenue, Tampa, Florida, three three six oh five.
I can start with the colour. Go.
All right. Um Tammy and Clark both discussed this a little bit, but sometimes if you have the exhibit in front of you, um we we made some decisions in the design to try and make it a quality project, one that won't detract from the neighborhood. As you can see, the west, the north, and the east side pretty much have wetlands heavily vegetated. Um we have one loop road throughout the community that the 130 homes will be around. To the northeast is where the neighborhood park will be, the required land development code requirement for
a amenity up in that area. Certainly it's not going to impact any of the neighbors if we have kids out there or there's no residential right around it. To the east is the senior center. There is a fence along the eastern border border with the senior center. We plan to keep the heavily vegetated area along that fence. They have vegetation. We have vegetation. Essentially, neither one probably wants to look at each other, so we're going to keep as much of that as possible.
To the for the entrance feature, you saw the pond in the middle. So even for the neighbors who live in that area, if they see the community when the gates open, there's going to be a pond right in front of the entrance.
And so for the Matrix we've um gone above and beyond in t some of our landscape requirements. Um there is a requirement of uh dedication of road for uh wisterial loop. Typically, a minimum buffer of 10 feet is required if we give right away. We're going to be giving 20 feet buffer. The size and heights of all the requirements of the landscaping in front are going to be increased in caliber and height. There's going to be double the amount of ground coverage that's usually required
compared to what the code requires. The six-foot solid concrete The wall will have decorative columns. Typically what you would see and is allowed by code is something like an aluminum or a PVC fence. They're going to be upgrading that. And as um Clark mentioned, the the entrance feature is really going to be a high quality product and it's something that um we think the community will will appreciate having it as they drive by.
I'm I'm going to skip drainage and we can answer questions about that, but in the interest of time, just two quick folks. Steve Henry's going to explain the substandard road improvements, because I think you all will know about that. Okay. And then Mr. Two needs to just say a word or two. Thank you. So we'll try to move it along. I'm
just going to do it too substandard road. Okay. Uh Steve Henry Linkson Associates 5023 West Laurel Tampa 33607. Um real quick, just uh we did it both a timing and phasing analysis and access management analysis. Based on the timing and phasing, US 41 will operate within the adopted VC ratio at build out of the project with the project. From an access management standpoint, we looked at the access to Wisteria Loop. We also looked at Wisteria Loop and 41. Both of those will operate within the delay and VC criteria
of the code. As far as substandard road, uh this graphic here shows uh the limits of of the improvements that we're doing. So we're going from uh US 41 to the western boundary of the property that we'll be doing the improvements. You can go to the next slide.
Now this graphically shows the improvements that that we're going to do. I'm not sure how to work this thing, but see if I can do this. That won't work on that. All right. So basically what's out there today is an eighteen foot roadway. What we're doing is making it twenty-two feet of of pavement along with uh stabilized shoulders and ditches along the roadway. So basically bringing it up to county standard for that two thousand foot length of the roadway.
I in addition to improving that's kind of N north i is to the uh left. But in in addition to improving Wisteria Loop, what we're also doing is adding a southbound right turn lane on US 41 at Wisteria Loop to allow people to get off of 41 to make that right onto Wisteria Loop. Uh go to the next slide. Um then the other thing that had come up was the grade going from Wisteria Loop up to 41. And this is kind of
a graphic that just picture that just shows you can see the grade there. The next slide.
This shows the improvement that we're doing. Um so if you look at the bottom, you'll see that the dash line is the existing grade and it's about six and a half percent. uh going from wisterial loop up to forty one. The red shows what we're doing is we're gonna make it about three and a half percent or less than three and a half percent. So basically cutting it in half and making that a much smoother transition from wisteria loop up to forty one to make it a little bit better from a traffic uh circulation standpoint. So
that concludes my presentation unless you've got any questions. Any questions from anybody?
I assume uh Steve. Sorry. I assume there's right right-of-way.
There's already existing. Correct, there's there's sixty to seventy feet of right-of-way out there to be able to do the improvement.
And again I'll just Joel two represents the landowner and wanted to have a word or two. Thank you very much.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Uh Joel to Twin Associates, Palm Harbor, Florida. I am transactional and land use legal counsel for the Hagman family. This property has been in the family since 1955, so more than 70 years. It was part of the original homestead. And they have a market rate contract with Poulty Homes to acquire it, which is has a closing contingent only upon the Plan Amendment and the MPUD approval. So obviously the family
has a serious vested interest in alternative. ultimately disposing of this family asset that they've had in the family for for many years. Um just a few bullet points on behalf of the property owner uh to make us a party of interest uh in the unlikely and hopeful not event that Puldy doesn't close, we still have the asset, so it's important to us. Um we obviously are in this US 41 quarter that's been designated part of the central market area. And if there's one thing that's been beat in my head as
a land use attorney for the last twenty years in Pasco County, It's that the comprehensive plan and these market designations mean something. They're studied, they're imposed for a reason. We are all told to bring in clients and developers and property owners who are mindful of what that plan says and what those market areas are. So we strive to not bring in projects that are outside those intended development areas, and we're encouraged to in fact bring the projects which are. This one obviously is. to
Clark's point, we're bringing you something that is in the bullseye. It has been contemplated for nearly 20 years now for exactly this type of suburban development. Uh moreover, this particular property is immediately adjacent to the high school and the school board's administrative complex. That hasn't been mentioned, but that can't go unnoticed. We have an adjacent high intensity use. Therefore, a suburban development of this sort is entirely
appropriate uh as a transition between that lake area to the south and that very intense school use to the north. I don't know what else we really could be expected to do with this property other than this, and frankly, I think it is fortunate and admirable. That
agreed to impose these additional conditions to create what appears to us to actually be a very superior design. for this entrance, this enhanced landscape buffer and security wall. on the front. To make these substantial improvements all the way to our West property line, although their entrance is substantially east of that. Clearly our new residents are going to go from our entrance to 41 to go wherever they're going. There isn't any logical debate about that in our opinion. So we
are doing exactly what the county ULI the market areas dictated us we should do. We are completely surrounded by a sea of Res3, except that we also have ROR adjacent to us on the northeast corner. So we have a sea of ROR and RES 3. We're only asking to do that which the Comp Plan said would be appropriate in this area. Most importantly, your staff has found on both the Plan Amendment and
the MPUD zoning, they have made a technical expert finding of consistency with the comp plan. and compatibility with surrounding uses. So we have met the technical requirement to show that we are entitled to this use, in my opinion. I understand that the county attorney has a slightly different opinion as to at what point you're entitled to your zoning. But I respectfully submit that in a quasi-judicial proceeding which requires competent substantial evidence. that the evidence will be that this
PD plan amendment and certainly the MPD zoning is appropriate and should be approved. And as a landowner, obviously we have to to to support that position. Um for what it's worth, uh had a brief discussion with Mr. Gadd a few moments ago and getting to Mr. Cox's point. The Hagman family wholeheartedly agrees that there is no logical reason in our mind why a wisterio loop must be designated as a collector on the Vision Roadway map. I don't think it makes a lot of sense. It
doesn't appear particularly prudent. I think our future residents would be very happy if it weren't a collector. They're going to share exactly the same concerns ultimately that the existing residents have. Now, there's going to be an identity identity of interest on that point. And what Wisteria Loop really needs to be is it needs to be the type of road that Puldy has agreed to upgrade to our western boundary, hopefully, as the properties west of us come in, you and the commission would require them to continue that
improvement process so that as much of that road can be brought up to county standard as possible. But that's really what that roadway needs to be. It really doesn't need to be a cut through For these massive planned development projects over on the Bexley Ranch that are coming down the road. There certainly are other ways to handle that through Ridge Road, Tower Road, the Roaches Run connection north of this. And I believe that can be satisfied. So because it's going to become an issue on this approval. Uh the Hagman
family strongly urges you and the County Commission to think seriously about changing that designation. We're fortunate that that's coming through at the same time. as it's turned out. So let's see if we couldn't make that happen. And with that said, we just greatly encourage you, uh the family does, uh, to allow it to achieve that which the family's waited 70 years for, which is a reasonable disposition of the family-owned asset that passed down to the current heirs uh from the prior state. And we we hope
you can support this. Thank you.
Thank you.
Were there any questions, by the way? For Joel. No.
Just before the public speaks I want to be clear about the Wisteria Loop issue. The The vision map w was going to be on the agenda today, but it's obviously got continued if If the Planning Commission residents, whoever want Wisteria loop removed from the vision map, the appropriate time to do that would be at the next board of county next planning commission meeting where that that specific map will be before you and you can take action on the map. Um I don't think that's action that you can take today.
No, I you know, I get that and I I I wanted to raise it for a couple of reasons. Number one, I won't be at the next meeting, so I won't be able to say that. But um I should have that
concern too, Mike, about that.
Yeah. Well uh I'm quite sure that other members will carry that along at the next meeting. But you know, one thing is you're looking at this visioning map, you're you're gonna be up at the thirty thousand foot viewpoint initially. Yeah.
you really drill down into you know, s a single road like we're doing today. then maybe some of these roads are gonna get lost in that thirty thousand foot view level. So um you know I would certainly Encourage. Prior to that the the the staff
Um Yeah, and not just for this particular road, but there's I'm sure if there's one there's others, you know. And um I'd hate to see us creating more issues down the road, but this one particularly sticks out. And um if we can prevent this particular road to becoming a problem now we should do that.
Burrow, anything? Come down here? Okay. So is there anybody who would like to speak?
He looked familiar.
Ray
Gad [address removed]. If I may, I'd like to enter these into the record.
Second. Motion to receive and file.
You got a second all in favor?
Aye.
Also, in order to address um Mr. Cox's issues, I'd like for you to give me a little latitude on time. I don't need much, maybe a minute or two.
Um it
depends if you're nice. I intend to be very nice. Thank you. Um but I also have to address the visioning issue which uh was continued today and we are under the unsump uh assumption that it was gonna be heard today. If you look at the pictures I've sent you. Um uh you'll see the first picture is just simply a kind of a look at what our neighborhood looks like. Um you know, and this is this is a country lane that we live on. If you turn the next few page uh uh pages, you'll see better pictures than Essen showed you
up here on the screen. And you'll actually see what Wisteria Loop looks like. You'll see the potholes, you'll see the water covering the road. Uh you'll see how narrow the road is, and I think you'll get a pretty good idea that this road is in terrible shape. Um so once you get past the roads, then you'll see a whole selection of pictures that kind of just show you the character of this neighborhood. And I don't want to insult this body by suggesting that in order to make a community and a developer
happy. that you should vote a certain way on the um vision map. What I want to do is appeal to the logic um that this group might apply to that vision map. And let me give you a little history lesson. Uh was stereo loop going east used to um hit forty one and you could go left or right. You could cross the median and go left or right. But then
I just Make a suggestion. Uh-huh. You have limited time. Okay. And so I've already said that they can't take action on Wisteria's vision map today. Uh-huh. So Rather than go into all the reasons why you want wisteria removed from the vision map, could you get to the comments on the MPD itself, which is what is before us today and they're taking action on
the
Well,
I think that's a good question
I think you're gonna run out of time. And and he told you you got three minutes. I I'm concerned that you're gonna I
thought
he
said I thought he said he was giving me a little latitude if I was nice. I said you might have four.
Okay, I'll take
four.
And I'm okay with giving you latitude, but I thought you were gonna talk about the MPUD. Okay. Okay.
But you're not the one that gives me latitude, the the the commission does.
But we're uh I think the point he's trying to make is I think. It's obvious to me that many of the members here are predisposed to to take action on that westerial loop.
But that would be at the next planning commission. And you're going
to
have a full you could could have a full presentation on that at the next meeting. So I I just hate to see you run out of time when we're we're here to talk about the MPD.
Given all of that, um I am concerned though, because Mr. Cox says he's not going to be here. Um I just want to make it clear that none of my neighbors, uh contrary to what a might Have been implied. think that this pooly development is ugly or detracts from the neighborhood. We're fine with the way that development looks. Poulty development has been really good working with us on the landscape buffers and all those kinds of things. What my neighbors have objected to is
that this is a substandard road. It has pre-existing conditions that are bad. And when they look out into the future future what they see is additional development going west. that will feed on to Wisteria Loop. And what we continually hear when we meet with planning staff is that there's nothing that you can do about the future of Wisteria Loop because there aren't many crossings that go across railroad tracks. And my concern there is that may be true.
But it's important that we do what's right in this particular scenario as opposed to what's easy. And we have a situation right now where due to the D O T Everybody that leaves Wisteria Loop has to make a right turn. And so I am very concerned in the future if we have continued development next to Poulty, which we will going west. that everything that is Bexley development will come down with stereo loop, hit forty-one and make a right turn. And
the logic of that defies explanation when Tower Road is a quarter mile down the road. Thank you.
Thank you, Ray.
Whoa, we got a special sound for you.
Yeah, that's for the X.
Okay.
First of all, I have something to enter or for your viewing from one of the people that cannot speak.
Move to receive and file. Second.
Motion a second, all in favor? Aye.
You give us your name and address, please.
Certainly. It's Vicky Wall and I live at [address removed]. Um my concerns are with compatibility to the neighborhood. We do We have pictures, um That depict what the the neighborhood actually looks like. As Ray has some stills. We have them up.
Will
you pass on the
You talking about referencing these pictures?
Yes. Well no they're they're different.
While they're working on that, what I want to say is in our neighborhood currently, um the lots average two hundred to three hundred feet in width. And the projection of course of these is forty foot lots at best. Um
All of the properties average out well over two acres that are already in in that area. And we pride ourselves in our neighborhood and we think it brings big value not only to the county but to the tax revenue. And we do have concerns that when we start putting planned units of smaller housing that End result, it will impact
what we have there now and have had for fifty plus years. The other um thing I'd like to say as far as yes, there are a lot of developments that have been approved since two thousand, but none of them To my knowledge, impacted directly a neighborhood. Most of the ones that came about, like Asbell, Tierra Dissle, Lake Shore, Conerton, Cypress Preserves, Wilderness Lakes, Suncoast Lakes,
Suncoast Meadows, Concord, Baldomero, and Oakstead, all come on to big, big roads, and those were pastures. They were not placed in the center of a neighborhood. And Um this is an example of what we have now. Are those able to to move?
You can just flip through them. These are what our area looks like currently throughout the neighborhood. And we our concern is to keep our neighborhood as as it is. That's my concern.
Okay.
I was gonna say if we can just continue to put that up and someone else can speak.
Mr Chairman M that was an unsigned letter by the way. I like to point that out, though there's no signature to it.
My name's Miko. Sorry.
I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
Excuse me?
Your name and address?
My name's Meekham. Uh William A. [address removed]. Got me? Just like what uh they're saying. We've had uh numerous from uh other uh sides on our side. uh mentioning about the substandard roads. What we have isn't even a county road. We've got an on their on your map listings, it's it's called a a corridor or a collector. But that doesn't exist. You've seen pictures up there. Our little streets aren't designed
for a an extra two hundred or plus cars to drive in in and out in the mornings and evenings. Years ago. Um at one of the sermons my preacher uh preached at He said uh people's opinions and opinions of themselves Uh very much. And that uh he said you can stand in the garage. all day long, it doesn't make you a car. The uh uh development is uh with one of the words that was used, a predicated
on the road being called a collector road. They're gonna develop and maintain from their property line up to forty one. But that's not gonna help the rest of us. If you put two hundred cars out there in the morning, even though it was mentioned that uh There weren't but one or two cars to go by in a minute.
200 cars is going to make a difference. Before I'd retired, one of my projects was over on 19. We were doing a road widening project, took a few months, in Pasco. Um right beside us was the senior center. and one of the things we had to maintain was road clearance if there was a medical emergency for a heart patient or oxygen deprived or whatever the issue was, the paramedics and the response vehicles had to be able to get in
there in a timely manner. If you've got that little road where we can only turn right as was mentioned, blocked up with everybody trying to get out in the morning. They're not going to be able to access uh the response, you know, the first responders aren't gonna be able to get to the senior center. They're gonna be blocked out there. Years ago, we could pull up to 41 and go left or right. All that was taken away when 41 was uh widened. All we can do now is turn right. If you have to go north, you turn right, go down
a half a mile to a U-turn. And then you try to pull out in traffic it's going the other way. So For all this to pass and for not to have an issue, if our road was developed to just a minimum county road. It's not right now if two cars come somebody has to pull on the shoulder the shoulder of the road to let the other vehicle go by. If you have two trucks, somebody's gonna pull off the shoulder and stop. You can't drive two vehicles. If I drive my R V up there and I pull off the sh all to the shoulder, it's six
in uh six uh six inches. It'll sink. 'Cause it's so soft. And what was mentioned from the developer was that the shoulder would be maintained and taken care of. Well that's great for that stretch of road. But what about when you get pey beyond that? Two hundred cars are gonna pull out and go somewhere. If they can't uh get up on forty one, it's blinking. If they can't get up on forty one, they're gonna turn right and go on the other way. They've got no choice. They're trying to get to work on time. So my whole issue,
if you uh put a stoplight up there and if it was a a a regular uh intersection where you could pull left or right, that would slow down the amount of traffic that you have to fight into. But if with the with no stoplight and they keep saying there's no provisions for it. But with no stoplight, there's not gonna be a fl a smooth flow of traffic. You're gonna be backed up. You can't get away from it now.
All right. Thank you.
Time's up.
Good afternoon. My name's Charlene Roush. I live at [address removed] My biggest concern is number one, the impact on schools. I've uh retired after thirty-eight years of teaching in Pinellas County. You're adding
More Students. Land O' Lakes High School is already overcrowded. a lot of the other schools within that area are already overcrowded. You're impacting them even more, even with the traffic. When you look at usable land. You know, it starts off with almost fifty acres. By the time they Talk about the wetlands and then you have a seven acre pond You're talking you're down to twenty seven, twenty eight, eight eight kickers. We do a res three on twenty seven, twenty-eight acres, that's a lot less than one hundred and thirty homes. So
however you come up with usable land really concerns me. Yes the traffic is an issue. But you need to look at the rest of what is it comparable with the rest of the neighborhood. You spoke earlier With Oakstead. And you passed that because it was comparable. Is this development comparable with the rest of the neighborhood? Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Hello,
uh my name is Steve Bush. I live at [address removed]. I live directly across from where this subdivision is going to be. uh m put and uh It concerns me considerably because uh Uh Number one. Uh the p my value of my property I feel is gonna probably get devaluated. Uh I have uh About three acres of land there and most of the other houses
on the on the block are all large acres and uh uh houses similar to mine. And uh when I moved in there in nineteen ninety-eight I was under the impression it was just one house per acre. And I guess it has changed since then with uh a new ruling I guess in two thousand five or whatever. So I am very much concerned. I'm concerned about the traffic going out there. I I wait right now, try to get out into 41 for quite some time, and I'm the only one there a lot of times. There's
maybe two or three cars, but I have to sit there for a long time waiting for that light to change down there by the high school. And it it didn't used to be that way. Of course things are changing, I know. The other thing I'm concerned about with is the flooding. Uh this last few years I've had water come up almost to my house in the backyard. There is a drainage ditch about Two hundred feet from my house that leaves the lake, drains from the lake, out underneath Wisteria Loop to the side of the property, where this proposed
development is at. And then it drains into the swamp. Now if that whole fifty acres up there where they're gonna put the development is going to be houses and roads. it's gonna it's not gonna absorb the water like it used to. So therefore there's gonna be more water that's gonna be running off into the drainage area, the swamp area, where the lake is draining. This is the the lake isn't gonna drain anymore. If the lake doesn't drain anymore, then we're all going to have a lot of flooding going on. So I think people need to take a look at that and Not
from thirty thousand feet like like you were saying. So those are Those are my concerns.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Yeah, same dot. Did you guys catch that?
I'm sorry.
These are before and after pictures of what that gentleman was just speaking about. That's I guess I'm gonna assume before. Normal. Normal. And the this is Well if I can get to it.
My name is George Wall. I live at [address removed]. I have for forty five years, forty-four and some change. Um I have a little history with that area. So I've witnessed flooding like she just brought up. I also witnessed the incline coming up into off of forty one coming into Wisteria. The D O T had some issues with that several times and had to rework it to get it right to keep uh our vehicles from bottoming out. So hopefully this last time they'll get it right. Um My
main issue that I have right now is flooding. I've witnessed flooding many, many times in our area. Now what's flooding? When I go down Bexley Road and uh I have hard a hard time navigating my car because the water has superseded the banks of that area. Worse yet, we've had to park our vehicles and bring a truck up that has a four wheel capacity or a little elevated in order to get through that area to get the water uh d n to navigate the water. Um It
happens several times. You know, one of the things that concerned me was wetlands too. Um everybody talks of I used to hunt and fish in this area, so I got a good idea what happens there. Um that that area that they have targeted for development uh and they acknowledge three sides are wetlands. That water it comes from a high school, it comes from Uh Wisteria Lake, train center, an area that uh my neighbor was just talking about. it goes into a swamp. Well
the swamp then meanders underneath Bexley and circumvents and goes back around into another area of Bexley, what happens it slows the water flow down. If the ditches aren't maintained and they haven't been, just recently there was some effort placed in that area. um it starts backing up. Yes, the water coming off of that retention area that they propose to put in there is also a concern for me because retention ponds are not kept up the way they should be. The proper way to do the retention ponds is not to knock the cattails down, because
that settles to the bottom of the retention pond. That affects the sensitivity of being able to drain that par that part. Um the proper maintenance means you have to go in there and actually remove the so the the sand and renegotiate that and put that back in there. I don't know if you guys have seen I've never seen that happen before. So I don't feel good about that. So now where does that water go when it supersedes capacity of the rent retention fund? It goes into the area that we already have flooding. Um We need to
take a hard look at that because it affects all of us. Uh it's not like I'm Uh I'm not against them selling the property. I they deserve it. They they're they're good friends and been there forever and they're family. So I know the p the people that own this property. And um I just think the land use when they start looking at a res three, res six, it just blows me away because that's not compatible with what's there. Um I think the additional traffic that's gonna happen there is going to affect a lot of people and
um That's pretty much what I got to say. I touched on everything I think in three minutes. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
Oh sorry, I need to be sworn in.
Oh, you didn't swear in? I hid
Do you swear from the testimony you're about to give to the two example you got?
I do. Uh Chris Knocko as a private citizen, uh [address removed]. So uh I know I will be on that clock. I promise I won't go over. Um but a couple things just very quickly and I appreciate staff has been phenomenal. I give credit where credit's due. They they will work with us, they'll talk with us. Uh I want to give Clark thank you and to our community. I mean th these are good people. And so the one thing I want to thank the board, 'cause you guys brought up some good points too, but very quickly, in a perfect world, when you looked at it, That property to the east
If they had bought a piece of land right there, if it had been available and if the cost was right and come you know, yeah, because you would have done like every other community heard about, Asbell and everywhere else. buy a piece of land, they'd go straight out to 41, they wouldn't have to go to Wisteria, and this probably would have went through with nobody being here. But the property wasn't available or it was too much, it was cost effective. So where we are is that they came down, they're coming down south, going to 40, go into Wisteria, which will go out to 41. So pretty much like all the other communities, They're creating a d it's their it's gonna basically be
their driveway into their community. So My biggest concern goes back to I I heard the first time today, suburbanization of this. Well, if you have suburbanization in suburbs, you have sidewalks. Um and and you have wider roads. And to call that a country road, I give right credit. It's more like a beat up alley. Um that has potholes and floods. I mean so that's my biggest concern And we'll be back for the next meeting. I got a minute thirty five so I can keep going. But I'll be back in that
next meeting and the fact that When we talk about building out in the future, That's my concern. My concern are these developments because there are a lot of land out there. Those maps that show all that land, there's a lot. At the same time as that parking lot that was in that Arthur project you showed? is a million times better than that road that's gonna handle all those cars. So that is what I think going forward we will be at that next meeting because when we start talking about suburbanization of that community. We have to remember that projects
keep building out and they will build out in that area, which is, you know, growth is gonna come. No matter what happens, growth and sometimes and a lot of times growth is a good thing, but when it's done the right way. And that's what we want to make sure those can those concerns, issues going forward. don't get fallen on deaf ears. That the fact that when people say no, it's not gonna impact you It absolutely will impact you because State Road 41 is already being overwhelmed, especially you can't get out of is Asbell right now. If you're up at Asbell at five o'clock in the afternoon, You're
backed up. You're backed up from four from fi state road fifty four. all the way up to the racetrack. in the morning, on forty one. That is my that's over two miles that people are waiting. So those are the type of things. When we plan out growth, let's plan out so put the roads first as the priority. Thank you very much.
Excuse me before you step away. Um so specifically, what is your thought and recommendation with regard to the road? Might collector road remove remove
it from the highway highway long term highway plan and take it out as a collector road. Take it out as a collector road, yes sir. Okay,
and that would solve your issue.
That would serve my issue going forward and then especially that Arthur project. There's land to the north. They're eventually it's gonna eventually have to connect, and maybe that Ridge Road extension from the Sun Coast. to 41 will be the place where all the cars, all the roads, everything goes towards. But if that was Syria Loop because everybody also forgot Tower Road. is Tower Road's gonna connect through. Tower Road's gonna eventually hopefully go underneath the Sun Coast Expressway. So people will go westbound, all Mysteria, because they're g they're not gonna
go out to 41, go down the tower, and then make a right again. They're gonna people are gonna end what they're gonna do is not even people from this community, other people are gonna come north, coming from the north, they're gonna come down 41. They're gonna make a right on Wisteria, which is westbound, take Wisteria down to Tower, and then take tower all the way through. So that's where we're gonna see in the long run you talk about the amount of cars, it may not be from this community, but it's gonna be from the other communities that are gonna try to say, well, cut down Wisteria to tower and
then you go through.
Okay, any other questions up here? Good.
Thank you all very much. Thank you, Chairman Mari
I have a question. Well they're not I'll I'll wait till I'll wait till the public comments done. Okay.
Hi, my name is Jason Meekham. I live on [address removed]. Um
This is uh a big responsibility that you guys have and I'm I'm a little uh it's interesting to me that some of this is um uh anecdotal evidence that you have to kind of sift through and look at and you're seeing videos of no traffic and you're hearing stories of there's tons of traffic and uh that that's uh that's interesting to me as a just a civilian. Uh just an interactive portion of the of the meeting. Could I get a raise of hands for everybody who owns property in the neighborhood? So we're not all family, we're not related, we're not working together, we're not in businesses. Um these
are just concerned Uh homeowners, property owners. that uh have taken time out to come today. Um I wanted to point uh one other thing um regarding the flooding. There's a picture in here of the track you were sort of looking at. There was a couple of those. Did you notice this? Yes, yes, yes, yes. These pictures were posted by the principal at Mandalakes High School. You guys um heard uh about the the uh the the benefit of having this development right next to the high school and uh the uh administrative buildings. The
principal posted these pictures of uh the track um activities being canceled because of flooding. You're putting a pretty big development into this one little footprint. There's some other pictures here that we've done. We're amateur sleuths here pulling up pictures of floodplains and FEMA maps. You'll notice there's a great big empty spot where this development's gonna go. All of that water has to go somewhere. And I would say that uh a lot of the concern that we have, aside from everything else that you've heard and a little bit about flooding, is that water has to
go somewhere and it's gonna end up affecting us. So even the the uh the portion of the road that's being uh fixed and talked about these are all big problems that we're all thinking about um but this is just one more that I would have asked ask you that you guys uh consider.
Sir can I ask you a question about this? Yes, sir.
When When I look at that picture I just think the school board didn't b build adequate retention ponds. I mean that's what I see when I see that picture. I don't assume that Yeah. This is somehow caused by the adjacent property.
Yes sir. So I actually went to Land O' Lakes High School. I'm forty two now. Um went to US F and um school's been there a long time. I think a couple of my aunts actually went to School.
Th that's my point is this that school was built before we had Right. More more rigorous drainage regulations. And so we have a lot of properties in the county that were built before we had more rigorous drainage regulations. They didn't build adequate retention ponds and so When I see that picture, that's what I that's what I would assume. Are you a drainage engineer that are saying and you're saying that
I'm not a drainage engineer engineer, no.
Thank you.
Uh what I would add to what you just said though is that uh it is sort of a fragile area, and and you're pointing out that there are some substandard uh uh conditions. And adding a large development like this, these are things I would want to make sure that are being addressed and looked at before deciding. That's my point.
All right. Thank you. Well we'll have that addressed when they come back up. Okay. They call it Land O' Lakes for a reason.
What
do you
expect when you have the mascot as the Gators?
It was built in the late seventies.
So I'm assuming before there was Swift Mode regulations and county regulations about how much drainage you have to provide.
I don't
remember
when all those regulations came into effect. Yes, exactly. I don't remember when all those regulations came into effect, but yes, I'm sure there were more stringent regulations.
Patrick Brook, I live at [address removed]. Um What what really gets to me is We're going to put in this neighborhood of 130 homes and we hear about all the vehicles of the homeowners. What we're not thinking about is all the vehicles that it takes to support subdivision. There could be fifty different landscaping companies in there every week. Amazon deliveries, propane
deliveries, UPS, FedEx, countless other deliveries and um companies that'll come and go.
What really gets me is the schools. I know the area is subjected for development, but we're not ready for it. I've seen I'm in Pasco County 13, 14 years now. I've seen 12, 13 schools go up from Trinity to Wiregrass. Yet my son is in Lando Lakes High School. Five of his six classes aren't apportable.
Simply not ready. We have to be prepared. Thank you.
Thank you.
Anyone else?
Hello. My name is Jim Host. I live at [address removed]. And you've heard all of the complaints and all of the problems and I just Everything everybody said here from the neighborhood is one hundred percent valid. And they haven't talked much about the flooding on Bexley Road. That gets to the point where my wife and I have had to park our cars on one side of Becks the Road and walk through the
water Down to the end of Bexley and then back up to [address removed] where I live. That was wasn't too bad when we were younger, but My wife and I are seventy two years old and I don't really feel like wading through that and if they put that subdivision in It is definitely gonna affect the water. There's no way it cannot affect it. And You know so now you know about the water, the traffic. The schools are overcrowded. I can't see any practical way You
could even think about putting a subdivision in there. I know what your planning said and it You don't live there. You need to spend some time there and see what's going on. That
It floods. Not on a regular basis, but periodically depending on The storm patterns and that and The traffic is horrible on forty one. Uh I d I don't know when The attorney took those pictures, but I know I've had trouble getting out on a forty one. Just about it. If that traffic light is there and the schools Let now. You can't get out. You gotta wait and wait and wait and hope. When the traffic light blocks the traffic north and
south, then the school kids come out. And they're all heading south. So you're still waiting for them. You wait and wait and wait. And in the afternoons it's backed up to fifty two and in the mornings it's backed up to fifty four. There's There's just not enough. If you put one hundred and thirty homes in there, You're gonna have over two hundred vehicles. I don't know a home around that doesn't have two vehicles. If you got kids you got more. It just It just can't work.
Okay, thank you.
Anyone else?
All right. Could we could could we could we hear from the school uh representative to find out what the uh the population at those
schools. Sure. So this particular development um sits in
Conerton?
Sits in the Conerton Elementary um Uh zone. So we would expect approximately twenty-five twenty-four elementary students from this particular development. Uh County Elementary currently sits at a hundred and twenty-five percent of capacity, so that would be my biggest concern. Um And then Pineview Middle. We would expect about thirteen middle school students from this development. Five V middle currently
sits at about ninety percent of capacity Um lights. Land Lakes High School, this would add about sixteen high school students. Um currently Land Lakes is over capacity, however, we're adding significant capacity to Land Lakes through the remodeling. Um project that's going on right now and they'll be complete. um at the end of the school year. And so once that's complete, we would expect Line of Lakes to be at about ninety
percent capacity also.
So two out of three schools are not at full capacity. I'd like to make one other comment about the the picture that was up there about the uh track that was uh flooded with water. That's close to a thousand feet from from I I guess I would assume is the property line based on this little ledge we have at the bottom. So a thousand feet. Uh my math's not that great, but I think it's close to what a fifth of a mile or a quarter of a mile or something. That's about a fifth of a mile, you know, be about right. So I I can't see the correlation
between the track Field being full of water. Uh but there is one comment that's in our handouts. Emergency services, I'd like to at least throw it out there if somebody wants to emergency services indicated that they had a concern about the getting emergency vehicles in there. I can't find that particular paragraph right now. But it did comment that they I think it's on page four or four. Yeah, here it is. Uh emergency management had raised the concern regarding the large amount of natural retention that uh
will be impacted by the development. Not sure what that means, but I assume that's water. So And the third thing I'd like to comment on. You got some beautiful homes out there, but somebody had mentioned only two hundred feet. Uh I look at some of these homes in here. I think you're on at least an acre lot or half acre lot 'cause Two acre lots? Two to three acres.
Well thank you. That's all I had. I have a question for staff for Essen.
Is Essen still here?
Nope.
No. I'll ask Mr. Henry then. Usually an expert's choice.
So Mr. Henry, the improvements you're making to Wisterio. Yes. Those are substandard road improvements, correct? Yes. Are those would those same improvements be required if Wisteria was designated a local road? Yes. So the fact that it's designated a collector road now didn't affect the level of improvements that You would have had to do To meet the substandard road guidelines. So even if so even if they remove even if Planning commission and the
board were to completely remove wisteria from the collect division roadmap. You'd still have to make those improvements.
Correct, yes.
And if a property came into the West and did development, they'd have to make those same improvements. Correct. Yes. Regardless of whether it's designated a collector or not.
Correct.
That answers my question.
Commissioner Clark Hobby again. I'm I'm gonna be brief. I think a lot of what you heard t t today here is some really uh heartfelt stuff from neighbors, then they're primarily worried about how larger areas that could be developed in the future to the west would affect their neighborhood and how Wisteria Loop being a a vision road could affect their area over a longer period of time. And I don't want to diminish those are valid concerns, but they're not relevant to the decision that's before you today. Um we have shown
With expert testimony that we meet the requirements of the code and the comp plan, and I don't believe there's any evidence to support a denial. of it. But that being said, I think you all can see that we've worked very hard to try to make our neighbors happy. And to make the project compatible with the type of landscaping and buffering and project design that we're doing. And we have done a timing and phasing analysis, and we took actual traffic counts. So my video isn't a determinative
issue. That happens to be something that I wanted to show you all, but the timing and phasing analysis based on actual transportation. Science shows that there's adequate capacity. And the fact that we're bringing the road up to standard conditions satisfies the requirements of the code. And then we're going above and beyond that, taking it to our property line. So we've met all the requirements of the code, and there really is not a valid reason for denial. We want to be good neighbors, we're going
to be good neighbors, and everyone's going to be properly. The last thing I'm going to say to you is we're going to turn this over to Brian Surak, who's our civil engineer, and he can tell you how we're going to address the drainage concern because I can assure you Clearview Land Design is not going to design this project in such a way that it's going to flood the neighbors.
All right. Thank you.
Did anybody have any questions for Mr. Hobby?
Okay.
Uh good afternoon. Uh my name is Brian Surak, 1213 East Sixth Avenue, Tampa, Florida with uh Clearview Land Design. So just uh you know, we had the neighborhood meeting and we've heard today several concerns about the drainage. So I I wanted to just go over the drainage patterns um on the existing site um and and talk about how we are um going to handle drainage from the project. So right now you'll see
Right now you'll see these green areas on the site.
Right around. So those are those are wetlands that border the site. Um The and you'll see these little red arrows. Um Oops. Yeah. So the red arrows down here, see the big lake down here? And then there's red arrows that go in north and flowing northwest, and then over on the other side of our project, on the northeast side, there's some more red arrows that drain that other little pond. So those
are both culverts that that discharge those lakes to the north, and both of those drain into wetland systems. It was called the swamp in earlier uh testimony. Um that heads towards the west. Um it's this is really part of the headwaters of the Anklo River. Yeah. So I heard it mentioned earlier. What is going to happen to all the all the water from this site? Well, I can currently tell you right now
that the site doesn't store water at all, except for the wetland areas that are on the perimeter. The project will not impact any of those wetland areas. We are not filling in any wetlands on this project. not filling any existing floodplain on this project. And when I say floodplain, we check several different sources. We don't just go to the FEMA maps. We check the FEMA maps, we check the current Swift Mud models, the current Pasco County models, and we always design
to the worst case scenario. So all of the drainage from from this proposed project is going to drain into that that purple area on the plan, which is the retention pond for the project. That retention pond will be designed to handle the hundred year storm event. So when I say that, when water flows into that pond, it will not discharge over the banks in a hundred year event. It will be water will slowly discharge from that pond in accordance with Pasco County and
Swift MUD guidelines. One thing about the localized flooding that you see, and one thing I can offer is just driving around this area. Um, I noticed that several of the culvert, like these specific culverts, and several of the culverts downstream here in the Bexley Road area, um, just are poorly maintained. I mean, they can handle probably half the amount of capacity that's meant to go through them. So just a little. Effort in clearing those paths out may do uh uh may provide a
lot of relief for some of the flooding problems that you're seeing out there. And I'm available for any questions.
Yeah, correct. We actually said that the culverts that are, you know, along the frontage of this property will happily clean those out and um Keep 'em clear from debris so you know things won't flow down.
Yeah, go ahead, David. Well since you are a drainage engineer or an ex expertise in that. The pictures that we saw earlier where the school was flooding and the lake was flooding What do you think the causes of all that flooding in the surrounding area?
Well, um it probably several different things. Um I would say um conveyance is probably the top thing I would look at. Something's blocked um causing things to back up. Um you know the other thing is is Pasco County, you know I don't know what event that was. Pasco County over the past few years has has had some very significant rainfall events. I mean they had a couple 500-year events within the last 10 years. And nothing's designed to handle that. So you know it just depends on when the pictures
were taken and and the conditions at the time. But my my first guess would be something's blocked downstream if that was just a isolated event that happen and it hasn't really happened before.
I'm sorry. Well y you've had to turn.
Okay. Um otherwise we just keep going around in a circle all all night long. So um Any other questions from up here?
Todd just out
Just a couple of things I wanna say is Um You know, it d the issues that are in front of us today, a lot of the things that are talked about are not relevant to the decision of what we need to make today. But uh they are concerns of the people who live there. And um From a drainage issue.
this project they have to address the the issue that goes on with their property. They cannot affect the other areas. And if this area is like every other area in Pasco County, the maintenance has been terrible with the d drainage and therefore it's probably gonna make things better when this project is completely done. The Future land use. on that property is Has Res
three. And by them coming in You know, so often that we see projects come in, they say, Well, future land use is res three, but we really feel that res six is more appropriate. We see that all the time. And uh that's not the case here. I mean they're they're barely over the the projected number of units there now. And you know, I personally think it's a compatible s uh project for this site. Now
having said that, um I do you know, want to talk about the collector road issue. And You know, I have a question to Mr. Rosenthal. Is if you you're hearing the comments that are being made today. Um you know uh If I know you you've probably already sent an email off about that issue. and uh hopefully it will be addressed and you know maybe some of the folks that are not that cannot come to the next meeting On the thirteenth.
If uh they had a comment from you regarding what the status of that will be, maybe from a staff recommendation back to the Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners, uh, may go a long way with helping uh them as far as their concerns.
C can I wanna make a clarifying statement about that though? Yeah. Okay. I knew you would. Because Even if he removed the collector status of that road, I don't want to create a misconception that that's going to prevent development on that road. No, I know
that.
Because we allow development on local roads all the time. As long as they're made into a standard condition which this development is apparently is doing. You could still see development on Mysterio Loop. As long as they're bringing that road to standard. The fact that it's removed as a collector of it is not going to stop development. So I don't want to Anybody to leave the room today thinking that because It gets even if it gets removed from the collector map. It might stop the roof from continuing over to the Bexley or
whatever, maybe. But If if a development came into the west of this and they want to do the same thing this development's doing and they're willing to improve the road to county standards, I don't know that we could deny it just because it's been removed from the collector map.
Well and I completely agree with you, David, and and I fully suspect that there will be other projects that do come in. But the the concerns that have been expressed today and and to me uh personally is that their it gets expanded beyond The properties that abut this road and this area. So that's the concern. It may
limit it from ever becoming a four lane road if you remove it from the collector map, but that's probably correct. But If somebody wanted to continue that road as a two lane standard road and put development on it. That that r removing that road is not gonna stop that.
And that will happen.
My point of of addressing uh Don is that that that it is removed as a collector when it does come back before the uh Planning Commission and ultimately the BCC. So
That that it'll be a staff recommendation, is that what you're saying?
Yes.
Mm-hmm. And I think it's true that we're not going to be able to do If there is another development. going in that direction, they're gonna not only will they have to do the same road improvements, they'll also be re required to maintain their own drainage on their own property. Just like this one. Is that correct? Yes.
So
So I would move for approval.
I think we're
on P seven right now.
I'll second that.
Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on the motion?
How is it? I was just gonna say and and I agree with Commissioner Collicks, you know, I know people on both sides and all really good people and Um when I was a kid I used to ride my bike on Wisteria Loop back there and it doesn't look any different than when it did when I was a kid. That long ago. It's been a it was a long time ago. Fifteen years ago.
But uh, you know, as far as the schools go, um I am concerned about um our elementary school. Um obviously this project isn't big enough for us to you know try to get a school site and and the way concurrency, I'm not gonna go into details of the way concurrency is set. I can't, you know, concurrency is not gonna cause us to deny this project, but what it does do is we get impact fee and then those impact fee
Um build improv improvements. at some point in our in our schools. And then and also by the way, uh Commissioner Cox reminded me with his comment I did have a couple in passing conversations with Mr. Gadd. I mean I do work with him. Um and so but mostly on the uh mostly on the road issue. Right. So I just wanted to make sure folks knew that.
Okay. Any other comments?
All right. So we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
Okay, motion carries.
Three eight. Did you do P eight also? P seven and P eight?
Yeah, we're st we're doing 'em together. Okay thanks. Yeah, we have to. Okay. All right. So we have a motion on P seven?
What was your motion on?
So my motion was approved on P seven which passed. But on P eight, does he need to call for public comment and all that again? We
did
them together. That's right.
You'd opened up the public hearing for both of them, but in an abundance of caution, Did anybody not get to speak before?
I think you just need to vote.
So seeing no one rise, I'll move for approval of P eight.
I second. Further discussion. All in favor? Aye. Aye.