PDD-19 CU01 and CU39 Treehoppers amusement park and alcohol

1:26:34Right. Good afternoon, Planning Commission members. Denise Hernandez Planning and Development. Today I'm going to, at this point, go over PDD-19 CU01, which is an amusement park. a conditional use for an amusement park in an AC agricultural district and PDD nineteen C U thirty nine which is the sale and service of alcoholic beverages in conjunction with the operation of an amusement park. in an AC district. Those are your items PC5 and PC six, those will be heard together.

1:27:02The subject applications are located in north central Pasco County on the north side of St. Joe Road, approximately 800 feet east of Bellamy Brothers Boulevard, and on the east side of Bellamy Brothers Boulevard, approximately 1400 feet north of Bent Fork Road. Throughout the presentation I will be at times referring To the western parcel and to the eastern parcel or I'll say the western portion or the eastern portion. So I just wanna show you that

1:27:32we're looking at two parcels. This is the western parcel, this is the eastern parcel. Individually, the western parcel is 58.46 acres and the eastern parcel is 59.86 acres. Currently, the western parcel is undeveloped with areas of dense vegetation and mature tree canopy. The eastern parcel contains the Tree Hoppers Aerial Adventure Park, which consists of zip-line courses, various rope bridge obstacle courses, concession areas. And the GIF and Gift

1:28:03and Pro Shop. And that was approved under conditional use petition twelve-seventeen back in 2012 by the Board of County Commissioners. Additionally, this parcel, which is again the Eastern parcel. Um hosts an annual fall festival in Halloween Haunted House, which has live actor-based theater and other related features and activities under temporary use permits in accordance with the Land Development Code 530.9.

1:28:31The surrounding zonings include an expired MPUD, which is formerly known as Saran Ranch, to the north and to the east. Uh was also known as Triaga at one point. And uh parcels that are zoned A C and A R to the wet to the west and to the south. Surrounding future land use is AG, AGR, and Res1 as shown in the map. You've got AGE to AGR to the

1:29:01north. And to the east. and A G to the south and Reswin to the south.

1:29:09And um recreation uses, which is what's being proposed with this application, uh may be permitted in any future land use classification as long as it's consistent with the applicable goals, policies, and objectives of the comprehensive plan. Access to the site is from Saint Joe Road. Only farm use use and access access, I'm sorry, and emergency vehicle access is being proposed on Bellamy Brothers. The applicant has agreed to limit uh access and this has been memorialized in your conditions number two and three.

1:29:41So the applicants are proposing a winter play park over the western parcel.

1:29:47It will consist of a snow tubing hill, snow play area, and other related features and activities. It will operate a maximum of 120 days a year, two to seven days per week, depending on the season. Hours of operation are Sunday through Thursday, 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. and Friday and Saturday, 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. At no time will the winter park operate, on the same days as the fall festival or Halloween haunted house. The applicants propose a fall festival. And Halloween Haunted House, which, as

1:30:18I explained, have been approved yearly under temporary use permits under 530.9 of the Land Development Code. The fall festival with Halloween Haunted House will include fall-themed attractions, including a Halloween haunted house with live actor-based theater and other related features and activities which occur both indoors and outdoors. It will operate a maximum of 56 days. a year, two to seven days a week. Hours of operation are Sunday through Thursday, 7 p.m. to eleven PM and on Friday and Friday and

1:30:47Saturday, 7 PM to 1 a.m. Again, it will not operate on the same day as the winter play park. In terms of C U nineteen thirty-nine, which is item P six for the sale and service of beer and wine for on-premises consumption over the areas generally depicted in the dashed white line and this is believe on your application it should be attachment four. Um the applicants are proposing the sale of beer and wine to be conducted during the days and hours of operation proposed under Conditional Use 1901

1:31:19and already currently approved under conditional use 12-17.

1:31:27In accordance with the Land Development Code Section 305, the applicant held a neighborhood meeting on May 28, 2019. There were 32 residents in attendance at that time. The Planning and Development Department has received 12 letters of no objection, which is your attachment six on your packet and attachment seven as well. This map that I'm showing you here, which is your attachment seven, shows where the letters of objection of no objection rather have come from. Uh those include four property owners that

1:31:57are located. adjacent to the seventy feet west of the location.

1:32:05Uh ninety feet west of the location. Sorry, ninety feet south of the location. I apologize. Um 470 feet southwest, 640 feet southeast, 800 feet southwest, 1300 feet southwest, 1600 feet southeast, point seven five mile north of, and one point forty. Miles northwest of the subject site.

1:32:39The proposed uh conditional use has been reviewed in accordance with a comprehensive plan Uh future land use policy 1.7.1 compatibility review. Which includes evaluation of existing uses of land, zonings, and future land uses, including existing and potential densities and intensities. The proposed use is consistent and compatible with the existing recreational uses of land, the existing treehoppers aerial adventure park zoning, future land use densities and intensities in the area. Uh the review also

1:33:10considers uh the existing development patterns and approved development in the area and it was found that it's consistent with the existing existing pattern of development. The evaluation of existing proposed and anticipated transitions between land uses. The transition between the proposed uses of the site with respect to the surrounding property is effectively and adequately accomplished through the use of buffering, screening as provided in the conditions of approval. Considering the scale and size of the proposed development, the buffering and screening techniques provided in the conditions of

1:33:40approval when incorporated into the site does. Will provide an adequate transition between land uses. As conditioned, the proposed use is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Consideration of environmental and cultural features and community characters. The proposed use of the property will require an analysis of cultural and environmental impacts and mitigation through the preliminary site plan review process. Actually, there's a condition that specifically caused that in your conditions of approval. So as conditioned, the proposed use is consistent with a comprehensive plan. appropriate

1:34:11timing based on analysis of availability of adequate public facilities and services, including transportation. It's the site is served by a county-maintained road, water and sewer facilities. No public facilities are required. The site is served by Well and Septic. and other necessar necessary infrastructures and s infrastructure and services. There are no uh re need for additional public facilities at this time. Analysis of consistency with the count with county policies limit to limit urban sprawl and protect

1:34:41rural neighborhood. The proposed use does not promote promote urban sprawl. The transition between the proposed use of the site with respect to the surrounding property is effectively and adequately accomplished through the use of buffering and screening, minimizing visual and noise impacts as proposed in the conditions of approval. Analysis of consistency with applicable specific area plans, corridor plans, redevelopment plans, and market area plans. The proposed use is consistent with the Northeast Pasco rural area and the North Market Area Plan as conditioned.

1:35:12Absent of special planning, a special showing of need for the future land use appendix, the Northeast Pasco Rural Area is designed to have a lower density and intensity than other market areas. The subject application proposes very low intensity uses and no density increase on approximately 120 acres. While the provisions of section 604 of the Land Development Code, which is the Northeast Pasco Rural Protection Overlay District, are not applicable to the subject application. It meets or exceeds the corridor buffering. uh

1:35:42topographical alteration fencing and lighting standards in such such such section and create significantly larger setbacks for the proposed uses than such section requires. Consideration of existing development patterns and approved development in the area. The proposed use is consistent with the existing pattern of development and approved development in the area. The Planning and Development Department recommends approval with conditions as incorporated into your packet.

1:36:11I'm here for any questions you may have.

1:36:13Thank you. Any questions for Ms. Hernandez?

1:36:19Okay.

1:36:20Just a compliment. That graphic you showed with the we had all the letters from where people Yeah. I've never seen them before, but that's actually helpful.

1:36:32Yes,

1:36:32thanks to

1:36:32the applicant. The applicant provided this because we had so many letters of no objection and the applicant uh provided this so it's a a very clear

1:36:40um

1:36:40showing.

1:36:45So I will not take credit. I'm giving credit to the applicant for who's right behind me, I hear him laughing. Okay. Thank you, David.

1:37:02Denise do you need this?

1:37:17Mr. Chairman, Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brest Street, Tampa, Florida, I have been sworn. Uh that was a pretty extensive overview by Mrs. Hernandez, but I'll go ahead and and try to give you a little bit more background. As she pointed out, my client has owned the um property that we call the eastern partial right here for a number of years. I think it's It's been eight, seven or eight years or so. Um, and there was a conditional use permit approved

1:37:47for it that was a subset of what the county calls an amusement park in 2011, and that was specifically for the zip line operation and the climbing facility that's out there now. Those were done pursuant to the comprehensive plan policies that are in. A G that specifically allow recreational uses. And there's a section specifically of the comp plan that talks about how recreation is allowed in every future

1:38:18land use, and that while there may be other predominant uses, recreational uses are basically allowed as a subset in any particular land use classification. And the AC zoning district specifically allows for amusement parks, as I noted. Now, after the original conditional use permit was approved on the eastern partial, uh Carol Clark, the previous chief planner for the county, and uh I think it was called the Planning and Development Department. She was the uh executive

1:38:48administrator, I think, or something like that, of her title at the time, issued an opinion that said that they could have a fall festival on that same eastern property. Which they've had, and it's called they they have uh various things that they do out there, including taking taking people on uh uh hay rides and stuff like that. But the main attraction that people are aware of is called Screamageddon. It's part of the fall festival, and it's been very successful, um, and it's a good draw from around the area. Um, and then so

1:39:18subsequent to getting that up and operating, the Client in the last couple years has had an idea and been doing research, and there actually is new technology where you can build a snow hill, and provided that the weather stays under 80 degrees, the snow will stay in place for an extended period of time. So my client went ahead and purchased the McLeod 60-acre track. So both of these are roughly 60-acre. acre tracks are very large um compared to other areas

1:39:48of the county and bought this site. and they want to construct and have this winter play park, but the primary purpose of that is to create a snow hill. That will be only in operation when we're under 80 degrees. So while we're asking for a a term that may be up to 120 days a year, my suspicion is based on being born and raised here, it may be only open 30 or 45 days of the year. But I would ask Ms. Hernandez if she can put up on the Elma. We have some pictures.

1:40:19I'll show you a picture or two. They've got one. One up in Stone Mountain, Georgia, and it's a bigger facility than we may have here. But this is what they're talking about creating, and they're very, very popular. People really, really enjoy them with their kids. And just as an example of that, the word kind of slipped out to some media sources about six or eight months ago that this might be a possibility, and within a forty eight hours there were several hundred thousand social media

1:40:49hits with people being intrigued by it. Having said that, because the county calls it an amusement park, when we first did our notices, it caused a big uproar in the northeast Pasco area because people thought we were gonna build a year-round amusement park. So I then uh with my client conducted a series of meetings with the neighbors, the closest neighbors, um, and there's just about eight or nine folks who live directly across Bell. Bellamy Brothers, and they were very productive. And

1:41:19I think what we did was we reached a consensus, and the conditions that Denise showed you today and are in your package encapsulate basically what is the effect of a settlement between us, and all those folks ended up supporting the project. And we did a number of things. We have a big setback along Bellamy Brothers. We effectively won't have any access to the park from Bellamy Brothers, so we'll just continue using the access point that we already have down here on Saint Joe. They're actually two So

1:41:50we're going to build an access through right here. And and maybe the biggest thing that we did with them is we we want to that my client wants to be a good neighbor. Now we we're trying to do a responsible operation here that's really, for the most part, a family-oriented event. That's what the zip line and the winter play park are primarily family events. And so we wanted to make sure that both visually and from a sound perspective, we weren't causing a problem. Problem with the neighbors. So we have agreed in

1:42:20the areas that you see right in here and up here, and then down here on Bellney Brothers, where you see that thick green line, what you're seeing there is a double row offset at very tight spacing of red cedar trees that when they mature in the next couple of years will basically be. Impossible to see through. And so it will create a wintergreen feeling for the people who attend the events on the inside and will create a great visual and

1:42:50sound buffer for the folks who live in the area. As Denise said, we also agreed to days and hours of operation, special setbacks, and a whole host of other conditions. But that's what led you to seeing, I mean, these folks right here, when we first First met with them, we're very concerned. But without with all these conditions, that's what got all of these neighbors on board with what we're trying to do. And these are the folks who live in the area day to day.

1:43:18As I think most of you all know, I have been personally involved in the uh comprehensive plan policies that uh uh led up to the Northeast Pasco uh rural area since two thousand five and the ordinances that were a result of it. And suffice to say the major intent uh the overarching intent of the Northeast Pasco area was really absent a conservation subdivision or a special showing of need to keep density and intensity low

1:43:49in northeast Pasco. And that's stated as the main way of preserving the rural lifestyle. This use can't be any less dense or less intense. The FAR that applies in the AG future land use classification, I think it's 0.23. We're probably operating at a 0.001 here. Very, very low intensity. and the sections of the overlay district that were adopted a couple

1:44:19of years ago only apply to residential subdivisions, but we feel like we're meeting or exceeding all of them with the setbacks and the buffers and the other conditions that we've we've agreed to. And I'm obviously I'm I can address any comprehensive plan uh plan issues you may have based on my knowledge there. And just that the last couple of things I'd say, and I've got my client here, we can ask uh answer any specific questions, but I I would point out for the benefit of the board uh or the commission

1:44:49I should say In addition to the uh comprehensive plan policies that relate to just northeast Pasco, there are overarching things that the county is trying to do, one of which is encourage tourism. And there's specific comprehensive plan policies encouraging that. Uh we're trying to create jobs. Uh and this specifically is coming. consistent with both the tourism objectives that the county's trying to

1:45:19fulfill. And with some of the recreational needs that the county is trying to fulfill. If you look at the county's master park plan as a for instance, the county acknowledges and the state has acknowledged that recreational uses cannot be met solely by the county and by state agencies, and that we need private recreational providers to step in and fill the needs that are of our citizens. And so we feel like we're doing that, and and from our perspective, we are uh we

1:45:49believe the use is really more consistent with what's called an agritourism use, and the legislature adopted a statute three years ago that encourages local governments to take large pieces of property like that. Um the the western piece is still in Greenbelt, it still has cows out there and stuff. like that, but what it encourages local governments to do is to allow uses like this that supplement the revenue stream so that people can keep greenbelt and larger chunks of land like this. So

1:46:21we feel like this is something that's consistent with all of the comprehensive plan object objectives, including tourism, recreational uses. We've worked very, very hard. We spent four or five months working with the neighbors who live adjacent, and as you can see, we've gotten almost everybody on board. You may hear from from one person who owns the property to the north, and we want to work with them between now and the County Commission meeting, we've reached out to them and before today we had not had a face to face

1:46:51meeting. So I would tell you that, you know, even if we get approved today, my clients objective is to be a good neighbor and work with uh the Geigers who own the f uh property to the north. And if there are things we can do to reasonably improve the project, to make it better for them, we'll do it. So that's where we are today. I'd appreciate your support. I think this is a great thing for Northeast Pasco, and we're excited about it. Thank you.

1:47:18Thank you, Laura.

1:47:22Um does anybody have any questions about first? Okay, does anyone e anybody who objects or has questions? You please come forward and state your name and address, please.

1:47:39Good afternoon. My name is Judy Geiger. I live at [address removed]. It's about a mile and a half north of this project. Uh I do have some records that I'd like to include and put in into the record.

1:47:55We're going to receive and file. Second. Motion is time.

1:48:01Okay. Okay. Go ahead and uh give her copy.

1:48:09Ms.

1:48:09Geiger, have

1:48:09you

1:48:10given a copy of this document to the applicant? I have not, but I'll be glad to do it. Well these these documents are uh Pasco County County uh uh public records. They are available. But I will do it as courtesy.

1:48:25Is entitled to see what you're giving at the Planning Commission. So

1:48:41What I am giving uh what we're putting into the record is um the twenty twenty five comprehensive plan. Goal flu two which is a protection of the rural areas, the entire section. We're also putting into public record the Land Development Code, Chapter 600. the Overlay and Special Districts Area, Section 604, which is the Northeast Pascoal Rural Protection Overlay District. and a state

1:49:12of Florida would you give Mr. Hobby a copy? Please. Um the State of Florida Division of Administrative Hearings, DOAH case number 06-3428 GM.

1:49:30Which Pasco County was a party to. Okay, we're I am saying that the application is not consistent. with these comprehensive plan and for these reasons. The stipulated settlement agreement was dated December sixth, two thousand and six. uh based on hearings from the Department of Administrative hearing within that plan or within that settlement agreement Pasco County was required to To remedy their comprehensive

1:50:01plan and their land development code. Um The Land Development Code was supposed to be remedied in section FLU 2.1.4, the development of a long-term planning vision. It was supposed to put the remedies in place by December 2008. That has not happened completely. The residential, as Mr. Hobby stated, was done residential component was done in uh 2016. There has

1:50:31been no non-residential nor commercial. uh codes put in place according to the l uh stipulated settlement agreement. Therefore, we believe this case is not in compliance and should be denied. And personally, as a member of the community out here, I have watched treehoppers being built. I have watched Scream Again. I don't want something like that in our community. Thank you.

1:50:58Thank you.

1:50:59Ms. Geiger, can I ask you a question?

1:51:03So

1:51:05You're you're saying that Pasco hasn't adopted this long term planning vision. Um What about the market areas that Pasco County Adopted?

1:51:17I'm I'm just saying that the stipulation agreement has not been adhered to as Pasco County was correct.

1:51:23No, you you made two specific comments. You said that policy two point one point four development of a long-term planning vision that We hadn't developed this long term vision by December two thousand eight. And I'm asking, aren't the urban sub um aren't the the north market area, the east market area, the south market area, the west market area, that that appears to me to be a long term planning vision for the county.

1:51:47But the code, the land development code, has not addressed the commercial.

1:51:52Okay, but okay, but you I'll get to that in a second. But uh but you you made a statement about policy two point one point four developing a long term vision. So

1:52:03That's not a land development code requirement in policy two point one point four, right?

1:52:07Two point one point four. Um let me get to it.

1:52:13I'm not as swift as the rest of the folks on this thing. Okay, no two point one point four says Pasco County shall develop a long-term vision by December 2008. for the northeast Pasco rural area. For a planning horizon of at least fifty years. It's saying f specifically for the Northeast Pascoal River.

1:52:31I understand that but we've adopted rural market area policies into our comprehensive plan, and my question is, why isn't that a long term planning vision?

1:52:41Mm-hmm. It states here this is a com this is a current comprehensive plan.

1:52:46And I'm asking you a question which is

1:52:47I I I cannot answer that.

1:52:51Okay, and then my other question for you was on 2.1.8.

1:52:58Um you said that we haven't adopted those standards. Is that what you're saying?

1:53:05Right. You have not adopted non-residential standards.

1:53:11The way I read the last sentence is that the only those are only mandatory for office and commercial uses.

1:53:19This is a to me this is a commercial use. Well staff is classified as a recreational use.

1:53:26That's it's a commercial use. Is he it recreational would to me would be he'd provide a place for free. He is making money on this. This is a business. That's commercial.

1:53:39Okay, I'm going by what self staff uh Denise, would you classify this as a commercial use or would you classify this as a recreational use?

1:53:48It's a commercial.

1:53:54Okay.

1:53:57Well I guess I'm also asking you if we haven't adopted these standards how

1:54:04How is this application inconsistent with standards we haven't adopted yet?

1:54:09Well they've not they've not addressed the north this you were specifically told to address the northeast Pasco rural area.

1:54:16Right. And I can understand if you would make a complaint to the County Commission or State Land Planning Agency or somebody that we haven't adopted these standards, but I'm not understanding the argument that this application is inconsistent with standards that we haven't adopted yet.

1:54:32Uh if it's if it's not I'm just looking at the comprehensive plan. in the Land Development Code. applying to Northeast Pascoal Rural Area. You're saying there's additional language in the code or comprehensive plan?

1:54:45No, what I'm saying is you're asserting that this application is inconsistent with policy two point one point eight. That's what you said.

1:54:51No, I did not. I said two point one point four.

1:54:54Okay, I thought you also mentioned two point one point eight, didn't you?

1:54:56No, you sir, you did that.

1:54:58Okay. Well that's where you talked about the non residential design standards. Isn't that in two point one point

1:55:02eight? No, just from from my personal history, I know we did the ordinances, the land development code. For res not for residential in two thousand and sixteen. That's the only piece that I've been part of.

1:55:15This particular application is inconsistent with what you're citing. So 2.1.4 requires the development of long term planning vision. I'm not understanding whether the county did or didn't do that. I actually think the county did, but assuming the c even assuming the county didn't I'm not sure how this application before us could be inconsistent with that policy.

1:55:37Well in my in my opinion, I'm not a lawyer, you are. I I believe it is in inconsistent based on the stipulated settlement agreement.

1:55:49Thank you.

1:55:53Okay. Any questions?

1:55:58Alright.

1:56:01Nancy Hayeswood, [address removed]. Um I've got a couple of questions. Um I understand that they will allow corporate parties. I also want to know if they will allow amplified bands on the property. That might have an impact on the neighbors that they might not readily be aware of at this point. Also, I was considering permitted uses. This is I keep hearing permitted uses. But

1:56:31I don't really call any meeting for the Northeast Raw area plan. I know you're talking about market areas. I went to those meetings and they were great, but they were kind of an overview, I thought. We didn't have we used to have meetings on the rural area. What do you want there? And how's this? And I didn't see any of this. The state settlement agreements did say the county needs to put in permitted uses and commercial for the Northeast Rural area and we just never sat down

1:57:02and had that discussion. And there was a deadline. I also remember the Northeast Pasco group very early on sitting down and saying, Well, let's let's come up with some permitted uses. So we did that. We sent 'em to the county. Deborah Zampetti got 'em. If y'all remember her. And then it must have gone into a black hole because we didn't hear anything after that. But we did sat sit down and try to discuss that for

1:57:32the Northeaster area. But

1:57:37I would suggest that this application be put on hold until something is done for the northeast rural area and some of this stuff is gone over with the citizens of the area and looked at. Thank you all very much.

1:57:54Has the zip line impacted you at all?

1:57:57I actually like the zip line. Okay. I think it fits. This other stuff has got beer and wine. I'm thinking, oh, they're gonna go down the end of the snow hill have beer and wine with their kids. Well

1:58:09what about fall festival? Do you like those?

1:58:11Yeah, they're alright. I've heard some complaints from the neighbors. I've heard about beer cans being thrown out and it's pretty noisy. So that one not so much. I think the zip line does fit in. Okay,

1:58:24so you like the zip line?

1:58:25Mm-hmm. Okay.

1:58:27And it's a good recreational family outlet, right?

1:58:30I'm sorry?

1:58:31It is a family recreational event that

1:58:35Yeah. Yeah, that seemed more like it. Also this amusement park is going to stay an amusement park.

1:58:44Yeah, I know, but that is, but still they're allowing beer and wine. What about If they're allowing bans till one AM, how's that gonna affect things? It's just more beer and wine there. They could drop the beer and wine and maybe say they wouldn't do bands, it might make it a lot more presentable to the neighbors. Well,

1:59:05I've got two out of three I guess. That's not too bad.

1:59:08Yeah.

1:59:09Nan Nancy, where do you live reference to this property?

1:59:12I live a long way off, but it is in the northeast rural area and I'm concerned about the whole thing. I feel if one part of it falls the other part might fall. So we take an interest.

1:59:22Okay. All right. Anyone else?

1:59:27Thank you.

1:59:27Thank you.

1:59:30H A C E L W O O D. Thank you.

1:59:39Hello, my name is uh William Geiger. I am the owner of um the previous property that's was and is in an expired MPUD, Sarin Ranch. Um It's the property to the north and the property to the west of this proposed application. I just want to put it on record I oppose the application. It's uh I'm probably the one that it would be most impacted by this. Um I

2:00:09concur with the lady that just spoke about the zip line. We did not oppose it at all. We we we felt it was a good fit and it really doesn't create any any adverse uh conditions for the property, mine or the neighbors. But we do feel the amusement park would probably adversely impact our you know, the property values are and you know, the the

2:00:39setting for the Northeast PASCO. So again I want to go on record that, you know, we oppose it and I'll answer any questions. Thank you. Okay, any questions?

2:00:52Well, I'll ask the same. You like the zip line, correct?

2:00:54Yes sir, I do. I d I also feel that once you the once that Mr Williams mentioned about letting the train out of the station. When you approve the the amusement park setting?

2:01:06Uh

2:01:07we feel like it would be you know there's there's other uses that and other opportunities for them to expand

2:01:13on that. The the issue I have though with the amusement park, I I can't find that word in here at all. I found Halloween haunted house, zip line, uh tubing, snow tubing, which by the way is a lot of fun. Uh yes. I think it's I think it's a great recreational tube for families. So um I was trying to find out how w what do you have against the s snow snow tubing hill. What specifically do you have against it?

2:01:42And it just again what what's gonna become of it for future. I mean uh Screamageddon was added into the zip line domain. Pretty much all the neighbors oppose that part of the the um the operation, you know, we I just don't feel a forty foot snow hill i on the property fits the agenda of what you all put in place for Northeast Pasco. It is a commercial

2:02:12operation. There's plenty of commercial properties they could put something like this in the

2:02:18is the zip line a commercial operation too?

2:02:20I I would assume it is, yes. Okay.

2:02:22Thank you.

2:02:23Thank you. Thank you.

2:02:24So I I have a question. Is there any specific other than you don't want it next door to you, is there any specific Uh code. portion of the comp plan that you feel it violates?

2:02:37Um I I just uh the Northeast, you

2:02:40know,

2:02:40rural protection area, I feel that the whole purpose of that plan was to keep it in a scenic residential non commercial. In fact I don't know of any other commercial alcohol sales in that area.

2:02:55Isn't there a wine read off of fifty two in there someplace?

2:02:58I I don't I'm not aware of it.

2:03:00Yeah, further area. Winery is it's off in fifty two though. Off by that uh the one we just talked about. It's in that area, someplace. I've been there once or twice, so

2:03:13So there is alcohol sales going on in there already, right?

2:03:16I if that's true, yes. Okay. So thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Anyway, does anybody

2:03:24else like to speak?

2:03:26[address removed]. Thank you.

2:03:35My name is Richard Malloy, [address removed]. I farm five different properties in Northeast Pasco. I'm very interested in it. Three properties that I own and two that I lease. I have one question if the um if the west section is going to be operated because he brought up the agritourism issue. If that's the east properties are being operated as an agritourism facility. I want to know if the West is also.

2:04:03'Cause this is very important. I've been working with um Lena Juarez, Executive Director of the Florida Agricultural Association, Mary Beth Henry, State Ag Extension, who is the lead on Florida agri-tourism.

2:04:18East property currently being operated, you get two benefits as agritourism operator. One is that you have protection from liability. It really decreases the cost of your business when you don't have to carry liability insurance. And the second one, and I'm quoting from the Florida statutes, is a local government aiming not adopt or enforce a local ordinance, regulation, Rule policy that prohibits, restricts, regulates, or otherwise limits an agritourism facility.

2:04:49You give up your power over it, but a subsection's been added this year that brings up does not limit the powers and duties of a local government to address substantial off-site impacts of agritourism. This has been defined by the state that it means what the neighbors think. It takes the power from the county, puts it back on the neighbors. Like back in the day when you want to do something on your property and they would tell you, get your neighbors to sign off and we'll approve it. So it's back to that again

2:05:19on that. Um on this east property, the one of the main reasons it cannot be an agritourism facility and why they're having people sign Liability forms that they're not legally allowed to do is because it can only be con agricultural land under statute 193.461. It doesn't mean what the zoning is, it doesn't mean anything to do with future planning. It all comes down on the tax collector, and

2:05:49when he does an investigation and finds if that is a bona fide farm or not. And that is not listed with the Casco County as a farm. So they are not i entitled to any of these um

2:06:04Mm-hmm. Agro tourism activity is very specific now with all the updates done the last two years. It lists specific things you're allowed to do on your agro tourism facility. You can view or enjoy activities including farming, ranching, historical, cultural, civic, ceremonial, training and exhibition, or harvest your own activities and attractions, period. That's agritourism. They actually added civic and ceremonial this year so they can people do weddings

2:06:34on their farms. The other thing is They've added the words primary and secondary to the statutes. The stream of revenue from your agricultural tourism can only be the secondary stream of revenue. The primary stream of revenue has to be the farm. Um how that is defined and why I can only do one or two weddings a year on my farm is because if I make more money on my agritourism, I lose my exemption. It has

2:07:04to be less than the money I make on my farm. Um The lands to have to remain agricultural and use primarily for bona fide agricultural purposes. And also one other item is that an agritourism activity does not allow the construction of new or additional structures or facilities intended to accommodate members of the general public. This includes snack bars, ticket booths. If you have a barn on your property, sell tickets out of the barn. If you don't,

2:07:35you cannot claim your exemptions as an agritourism business. unless you actually have the farm. Um so I I know this I've learned a lot about you guys today. Uh I saw you f with that twenty minutes before we started on this subject, I get a lot more appreciation for your job. Um but anyway, if the whole thing is if this whole thing is gonna be agritourism, um they cannot use that exemption on liability,

2:08:06the one that they have posted on their east farm, east section there. Hmm. They cannot but they'll have those signs on it. They're misleading the customers they have there. If somebody gets hurt there, oh we don't cover you. You signed it, you read it. Well that's a business for an attorney to talk to anybody they ever got hurt, tree huggers, because they are not entitled to that exemption. Um

2:08:31Okay, uh

2:08:32but anyway that's all I have. Any thoughts.

2:08:34Thank you very thank you very much. By the way, just to establish your credentials, are you uh an attorney that deals in this all the all the time or no you're an expert?

2:08:43I'm not an expert. I do teach some law. I teach international law and admiralty law on occasion.

2:08:49So what what what are your credentials? What is your background?

2:08:53Background? Oh well that's a long one.

2:08:55Well just give me a brief synopsis.

2:08:57Well uh dealing with a lot of this type of stuff.

2:09:04I was a captain with the US Navy. I was charged as part of my job with enforcing the laws that were mine to enforce. Um I had a interpret the law. I acted as both a defense and a prosecutor and an administrative judge as part of that position. So I'm kinda get a little handle on. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay.

2:09:25Thank you. Thank you very much for your service too.

2:09:29Yes, sir.

2:09:37Hi, I'm Stephen Gonzalez and I live at [address removed] and I have not been sworn in because I wasn't aware that you needed to do that. I'm happy to do that though.

2:09:54Yeah. So I live on Saint Joe Road and um I can only speak for myself but I'm guessing that most of the people who the residents who live out there uh I moved out there twenty three years ago. Uh and we did so because it's it's quiet and it's rural. And you can see the stars at night. Uh And there's lots of acreage or you know, clustered neighborhoods on Saint Joe Road. Uh and as the people the others said,

2:10:25I I frankly don't know how treehoppers, you know, got got approved. I I didn't go to the meetings, that was my fault. Um but it it doesn't upset um that rural nature because it's it's back in the woods and I had attended the community meeting uh at the treehoppers. Um and that's that's was kind of the business plan. People wanted to get out of the cities and and go to a rural setting and do that, you know, the zip lines through the woods. That's fine. How did Screamageddon come about? How

2:10:55did Screamageddon, their their Halloween celebration, which I can tell you I live on the road, I I jog up and down the road, um it's like having the state fair at the end of your residential road for about two months. That kind of traffic, that amount of cars, that amount of people driving up and down the road, that amount of trash on the side of the roads. every, you know, Saturday and Sunday.

2:11:22It's it's a big crowd. Like the state like the Pasco County State Fair.

2:11:27Excuse me, w where do you live in relation to that problem?

2:11:29I am uh w east Of this on the opposite side of the road. I'm exactly halfway between Bellamy Brothers Road and the hump that goes over I-75. So how

2:11:42far is that?

2:11:44I think it's 0.75 miles from my house to that to the corner of St. Joan Bellmy Brothers.

2:11:50You said twenty-seven?

2:11:54I think I clocked it on my car because I run down the end of the road. So it's less than a mile.

2:12:01So so that's what we deal with now. I mean there's Scream Mageddon is you know it is a short term deal, but it's you know when you look in the paper during Halloween week, it's it's listed next to you know Hollow Scream and and the Bush Gardens thing and Screamageddon. It's it's a pretty big deal for Halloween. So now and I and I don't know how that was approved. It it obviously was Mm-hmm. Um and at the community meeting, you know, some others were there and they were asking um the applicant here, um, you know,

2:12:31do you have plans to do this? And he said, No, I don't have plans. So when he had when he did treehoppers, I guess he didn't have a plan for Screamageddon, and Treehoppers got approved, but now we have Screamageddon. So now it's it's about the the Snow Hill and the artificial snow blowers and the machinery to do that. I mean it's clearly a commercial setting and in my humble opinion it's clearly not the right setting for it. I said at the community meeting, I commend him for the business. I'm a capitalist. I mean he's hiring young

2:13:01kids, he's he's making money, it's it's supply and demand, people want to do these things. It's just in the wrong area. It should be on three oh one. It should be on US nineteen. It should be on a on a commercial business area, because that's what this is, a commercial business. And it's on a road that is a completely quiet, rural, residential road. The only agricultural businesses for the last twenty-four years since I've been there have been horses and cattle. quiet.

2:13:32Muein. Muein, which kinda adds to the serenity of it. You haven't heard

2:13:37about the New Green Deal, I guess.

2:13:39Excuse me, excuse me. Oh right. We might be banning all cows. Um but i this doesn't fit at all to that rural residential setting. And it's certainly not gonna help our property values if we want to, you know, at some point, you know, move to another setting and want to sell to somebody else who wants to come join this peaceful rural quiet. Setting. Oh, by the way, there's an amusement park right down the street a mile away. And you know, as far as the traffic going in

2:14:09and out, I mean, yes, when Screamageddon's there, there's you know people asking, you know, stopping and asking for directions or driving in. Um but but nowadays, think about it, people get their directions off of their phone, off of their the GPS and Google Maps. So everybody north of this setting, Brooksville and everywhere north, they're They're gonna come down Lake Iola Road. They're gonna get off of that exit down there, you know, north of 52. And they're gonna come down Lake Iola Road and and come down St. Joe Road right by my house. Yeah, and go into

2:14:39this place. I mean this you know, we're putting You know, Bush Gardens is an exaggeration, but this is an amusement park. People are paying admission to go into this park. You know To go go down a snow hill, a large snow hill slide, I'd like to know where that park in Stone Mountain, Georgia, I think it is. Is that in a quiet rural residential neighborhood, or is that in a commercial area? This should be in a commercial area. It should be on US 19 in Pinellas County. It should be on at least 301. You

2:15:09know, up north on 301, there used to be a golf course up there. There's commercial. operations up there, not Saint Joe Road and Bellmy Brothers Road.

2:15:21I just wanted to be on the record with that. And and trust me there are many, many people that I'm surprised aren't here. that feel the same way I do. I've talked to them. I mean I saw on the sign the date of this meeting and, you know, put it on my calendar. My wife and I are here. She feels the same way I do. She's a little more incensed about it than I am, frankly. But this is not the right setting. for this snow park. I don't know where any of you live. Do any of you live on Bellmy Brothers Road or Bellmy Brothers? Delaney Brothers or Saint Joe?

2:15:49No, but I'm very familiar with it.

2:15:51Okay. I don't think you'd like this on the street you live on. I mean it's it's literally when I say scream again, it's like the state fair. I mean it's it's that many cars. And this is going to be a further enhancement, you know, a a further amount of amusement park on the end of St. Joe Road.

2:16:11Okay, thank you very much. Any questions? All right. Anyone else?

2:16:19I would

2:16:23Ma'am, you can't speak from the audience like that. Well, the the clerk didn't pick up anything you said, so

2:16:30Mm-hmm. I haven't seen it either for them.

2:16:35Okay. Raise your right hand and be sworn.

2:16:39Do you swear from the testimony you were about to give the truth to help you guys? Thank you.

2:16:47Okay. Christy Geiger, um I guess the home address. Home business address. [address removed]. I'm like shaky. Sorry. Um

2:17:06When my husband was up talking before, I'm not as familiar with the the land mapping as he is, but I thought it'd be pretty important to actually note how much of the property of the park affects our land can

2:17:23Hm.

2:17:23I'm sorry, honey, you're gonna you're gonna have to speak to that microphone. Can you please turn around?

2:17:28Fifty six hundred feet. Um I believe it's all the the north and all of the um east side, is that correct? Anyway, it's it's an entire almost half of the property line um buffed up here.

2:17:45I do want to do that. Well the Saren Ranch, so it's all of this and down? Yes. And when he um purchased the property back in twenty eleven it was something that was for um uh investment, entrepreneurship, um something that he could pass down to his family or w what what have you. And when he bought it it was for the appropriate land uses that it is. And when this other land use

2:18:15comes into play, um it's not appropriate for the area it completely devalues um our his our investment. Um if it I think it was uh I think it was um Meant for like Five acre uh homes for horses um for a subdivision. That doesn't fit at all with um when we're saying amusement park, yeah treehoppers is is it is nice. Um the

2:18:45Screamageddon I don't think is very nice. It's not pleasant, it's not fitting to the area. The next thing being the snow park. What's next? I mean, does it stop? And um We do a lot of stuff on our way and we have uh hunting leases. I mean people are out there in the middle of the night and all hours shooting guns. I mean, what Do you really want to be bumping up to people like trying to have fun with their families and people are out hunting? And this is all appropriations for the land being used

2:19:15right now. Just I don't know anything about law. Um, but I know the difference between right and wrong and it's just not right. That's just not where it belongs. And I encourage him to have this business and succeed. Just not not in that space. I think all of his ideas are great and I would take my children there, but just not there.

2:19:39All right, thank you. Any questions? Thank you for coming up.

2:19:46Okay, anyone else?

2:19:50Before Mr. Harvey speaks, um the Planning Commission has concerns about compatibility, I think that's perfectly fine to raise in the context of this proceeding, but I don't think you can find it inconsistent with a com plan because of plans or land development code regulations that the county has not adopted yet. Right. So I'd ask you to discount that argument entirely. But if you want to if you have compatibility concerns, there's other provisions of the Comp Plan and Land Development Code that you can use if you have a compatibility concern. I would just ask you to discount

2:20:20any argument that somehow it could be inconsistent with a complaint because of some plan or land development code provision that the county hasn't adopted. There's actually a statutory remedy for somebody to make a complaint if we haven't adopted a land development regulation and there's a whole process for that. So you should not be taking that into account in your determination.

2:20:39Okay. So you're referring to the DOE case and That was brought up.

2:20:45Right, so there's there's there's a house of DOA case. So there's there was a settlement agreement that was entered into in two thousand six and was actually a lawsuit brought by the landowners in the area who didn't like some of the policies that the county had adopted for the Northeast Pasco Ruler. And there was a settlement agreement entered into as part of that the required cert policies. The policies that were the required certain policies to be adopted into the Comm Plan and required certain land development regulations. The policies that were referred to

2:21:15were the county did adopt some of the land development regulations, which are section 604, which you see here, but they primarily apply to residential. So The point was made that we I'm not sure if it's true, but but that we hadn't adopted some future vision plan that's required by policy two point one point four and policy and some non-residential design standards required by policy two point one point eight.

2:21:45That that may be true, but that is not a reason to deny any pending application that's before you. There's a remedy in the statute for any citizen to file complaint with the state land planning agency if the county has not adopted some land development regulation required by the code or the settlement agreement. Okay. And that would be the remedy that somebody would need to utilize if we haven't adopted a land. And development regulation. More importantly, if you had compatibility concerns with this project, there's

2:22:15other Complant policies that require it to be compatible. So there's no reason to rely on that anyway. I'm only bringing up because if you had... any kind of compatibility concern, I do not want you to in any way make it based on some lack of the adoption of something that the c the the comp plan may require.

2:22:38Mr. Chairman, thank you, David. I mean I appreciate that and I think that's probably a very eloquent way of saying that we can't be forced to comply with something that doesn't exist. Um it's questionable whether some of these policies have already been totally implemented by the county or whether additional policies may be uh necessary in the Land Development Code, but we can only comply with what the code code is today and the specific policies and the comprehensive plan. Um I'd just answer just a few questions. In my

2:23:08mind, this is a recreational use. Recreation is defined as leisure activities or pursuits, especially those that are conducted outdoors. That does not mean it can't be for pecuniary gain, but it is clearly recreation under the comprehensive plan definition. Just a little bit of background about the Screamaged. Activity. Again, the previous planning and zoning administrator determined that we could have a temporary use for those events. What we're doing

2:23:38here today in this process is providing a public forum so that our neighbors can give us input on what they think about those uses and we can come up with permanent conditions to ensure compatibility for those uses. We could go on operating with a temporary use permit. We could go on having uh caterers come out to provide alcohol, I mean through the beer and wine. We're not doing that. We're being forthright and we're saying this is where we want to serve the alcohol. We're not gonna serve

2:24:08it in other places. These are the setbacks, these are the special buffers we're putting in to make sure that we're doing the right thing by our neighbors. Uh Um The issue about agro tourism, I only raise that because I I believe that we have an argument about that. I'm not in getting into the argument about whether you know we have some kind of liability protection. But moreover, as it relates to this property, we are subjecting ourselves to a conditional use permit and all the conditions, we're not saying that we're

2:24:39not and matter of fact we're waiving any right to object to those. in the conditions so we're not claiming that we don't have to comply with them. Uh to the contrary, that's the purpose of these applications. Um I would agree with David. I sat through many, many, many uh hearings and and uh uh meetings that went on subsequent to the adoption of the 2007 comprehensive plan that were about market areas, market studies, We had two ULI studies.

2:25:09The second of which, after the market studies had been adopted, pursuant to the previous ULI study, has any numerous of rep uh references to the fact that we need to take advantage of tourism, ecotourism. We need to take advantage of the east side of the county's natural beauty. The main reason my client Here, looking at this property and not at 19, is that there's a natural roll on it. We don't want to take the roll out. We're not trying to cut the hills down. We want to do a

2:25:39snow park park because there is a nice roll on there. There's about a 30-foot, 40-foot drop over on the western side. That's why we're here today. And we believe that we're very much consistent with the comprehensive plan and the intent to keep this area rolling. Rule, low density, low intensity. We're not seeking more houses or anything like that. And then lastly, I mean, I appreciate the fact that some of the neighbors still have objections, and as I told you, I will continue to meet and look forward to meeting with them to try to reach

2:26:09a resolution prior to uh the board. But there's a reason why on the previous map you saw that substantially all of the neighbors that actually

2:26:21have agreed to the conditions and are not objecting to the application. It's because we are doing the right thing by the neighbors. So happy to answer any questions. Other than that, I appreciate your support.

2:26:34Okay, or do you have any questions? Michael?

2:26:39Do you want? I'll move for everybody. We have a motion. We have a second.

2:26:45I'll make motion to approve. Here we go.

2:26:48Motion and second. Any further discussion on the motion?

2:26:52Uh before we vote I just wanna say I mean I I understand that not everybody everybody would like to have woods in their backyard. Everybody wants to live in in rural areas of the county. I mean th the applicants here it seems like he's done a lot to protect the buffers. He's protected the access or or actually he's limited the access to only Saint Joe Road. Um I mean I think the applicant's done quite a bit in this case to um try to be a good neighbor, so I'm gonna support this for that reason.

2:27:18Okay, so we have a motion and a second. Further discussion? All in favor of the motion? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries.

2:27:34Denise is at the end of the agenda. Is there anything else on the agenda? Well well let me just make clear because there was actually this was two items, wasn't it? Yes. Do you want two votes then?

2:27:46Yes, please.

2:27:46Okay.

2:27:47So the first one will vote on what?

2:27:49So what did they just which one did they just vote on? PC five. P C five. PC five.

2:27:55Um you have just voted on P D D nineteen C U O one, which is PC five. I also need a vote on P D D nineteen C U thirty-nine, which is for the sale of alcoholic beverages, in conjunction with the um uh the uh uh the use of an amusement park in an AC.

2:28:12So in abundance of caution, Mr. Chairman, if there was anybody that wanted to speak uniquely to the alcohol issue, I think you should allow that to happen.

2:28:19I know that some of them are explored.

2:28:21Well anybody who who didn't who sp who's who didn't speak specifically to the alcohol issue before, I think they have the right to do it. I just don't want to somebody claim they did it.

2:28:31Is there anybody who would like to speak specifically to the alcohol issue that hasn't spoken to the alcohol issue?

2:28:40See

2:28:40no one arise, I'll move for approval. Second. Motion of second for the discussion. All in favor? Aye. Motion carries.