R46 water wastewater and reclaim master plans

1:12:28Good morning, Commissioner. Adolfo Gonzalez, Utilities Engineering and Contract Management Director. This morning we'd like to brief you on the updates we did to the water, wastewater, and reclaim water master plans. We do that about every four to five years. Jim Shannon is the manager of our capital planning group. He's going to walk you through that presentation. We also have your entire leadership team here if you have any questions regarding how. master plan was put together or any data behind the master plan. Thank you.

1:13:02Morning Commissioners. I'll be presenting the results of our master plans for our potable water, wastewater, and reclaimed water. Some of the topics we'll be going through, going through the purpose, the background, our population projections, and then the three master plan results and the key takeaways and next steps. So, overall purpose of master plans, master plans are the foundation for the development of utility infrastructure to meet

1:13:32the future needs of our utility customers. So the primary driver of these particular master plans we did was the massive development growth that we've that we are undertaking. This addresses Pasco County Strategic Plan Priority One, which is the demands for rapid growth. This is a high-level planning document which only identifies major backbone infrastructure needed for the planning periods. It's typically updated every five years, but we can

1:14:03do it more frequently.

1:14:06So just a little bit of background, we started this uh master planning process uh uh in FY24, and we wanted to do all three master plans concurrently because they all interrelate to one uh one another. We have three uh planning horizons, the five-year, uh short-term, five-year, medium term, uh it's ten year, and long-term, twenty-year. And uh The uh The the master plans, the the key output of the master plans is to identify What are uh

1:14:37growth projects are our CIP growth projects. Uh and it's also going to provide input to our connection fee study, which should be uh undergoing next year. So

1:14:50this isn't the latest uh pres this I don't think this is the latest one I had, but I I can still go through it.

1:15:03Sorry about Dave.

1:15:18This was yesterday afternoon.

1:15:25Okay.

1:15:29All right. That looks that looks better. Um so with these uh master plans uh To to uh to come up with your uh future demands you need to start with our population uh forecast. So um when we were trying to decide which forecast we use, we wanted to uh use what everybody else is using. So we used the uh approved uh county wide population forecast uh that that were done by the Pasco

1:15:59County Metropolitan Planning Organization or MPO. This provides consistency with other departments, transportation engineering, as well as our planning department. This is just an excerpt of Oh. Diagram from the uh the long range uh transportation plan by MPO. And this just shows uh where the areas of of growth are going to be taken. This the these this particular

1:16:30master plan uh divides the geographical areas into what are called traffic analysis zones or T.

1:16:37So that's how you distribute the population. And this is an excerpt from our potable water master plan for 2035. We're we go into a little more granularity in the areas, which we we develop what were called service polygons. And what we do is they take that those service polygons using the population projections information as well as. other MPUD development information that we have and we identify the distribution

1:17:07of that population within these service polygons. So first we're going through the the Plutable Water Master Plan. So This uh this diagram shows you the growth in our potable water demands. We're currently on average day. uh delivering forty million gallons per day of potable water. This diagram shows on an average day basis, which the which is the blue line at the bottom, that we are uh projected to

1:17:38more than double our potable average day potable water uh delivery over the next twenty years. Uh the other two lines are we We we also have to look at in in addition to average day demands, we have to look at max maximum maximum day as well as peak hour uh demands. Hold on one second, Commissioner Weightman

1:17:57I'll I'll wait till sorry Chairman I'll wait till you're done with your

1:18:00Is that because of population growth?

1:18:04Yes. So uh and the reason we we have to look at uh those those the the the max day as well as peak hours most of our facilities are designed uh for those for those demands, not the average day.

1:18:21Did you want did you want to talk about the other?

1:18:23Yeah.

1:18:25So to that f so to your potable water demand. Uh Is there any way to um Define consumption, human consump you know, daily use of consumption versus how much potable water is being used to water wants. Within that within that domain need. Um well we how much is wasted on water and grass and all versus you know what we actually need it for of the potable supply.

1:18:55The way they come up with the the way they come up with the demands is is taking the population projections and then and then we convert the populations to e to uh equivalent residential units using like a a a a factor of two point uh four nine persons per home. So then you come up with your equivalent residential units. And then we have a factor, our level of service factor for potable waters is 215 gallons per day per ERU. And we've tracked it. We've been pretty close to it. And that's uh that's uh

1:19:25uh over the past is is fairly close to that unitary uh demand per ERU 215. So basically what we're doing is we're multiplying the projected number ERUs by the two hundred and fifteen. So the two hundred fifteen i includes homes that that currently uh have uh use poolable water that don't have reclaimed water and and and those that do.

1:19:49So what's the difference between uh the folks who are on a are on a reclaim line on their average gallons per head versus those who aren't on a reclaim line? Do we know that? You said if it's two hundred fifteen, is it? You know One seventy-five for the folks that are on reclaim. What's the delta?

1:20:09Yes, i i I I could get you the I could get you the figure, but yes, it it would be lower. That that that that's an a that's an overall average. But it would be it would be lower. Y'all y'all know

1:20:20where I'm

1:20:21going with this, right? Yes. Purple pipe and so um Joseph Omois, utilities director. So the high level way to determine it is um the demand is about forty million gallons per day and the flows that come out of our plants we treat every day is around twenty-seven, twenty-eight. So pretty much the r the the delta it goes to irrigating loans and um that is lost and that is also lost through flush.

1:20:49I

1:20:49have a whole lot of ideas sur surrounded by that to get that average daily use down. It probably comes into board policy. But Thank you for that detail.

1:21:03Okay, so the uh key findings and recommendations from our Coltable Water Master Plan are that our existing supply and transmission infrastructure is inadequate to meet the growth demands in in the the the larger growth area, especially the villages of Pasadena Hills and the SR-52 corridor in the in the short term. Therefore a significant investment in water facilities and water transmission lines are needed in both the five and ten year plan periods to be able to

1:21:33accommodate that projected growth. And our manager plan is also uh we are recommending a new uh point of connection with Tampa Bay Water. Um in an area further into the county um along with some larger transmission mains to address uh more of the longer term growth. Okay. And Commissioner Starkey?

1:21:55Um can you go back to the previous map? Um not that one. Sorry, the one before the m the map with the little blue all the different blue here. There. Um just a question and when we went over this I had this question too. Is that dark blue and that light blue, is any of that four G Ranch that's north of fifty two by Aaron Cutoff? No. No, so is that uh Palmetto Ridge and the other one? So forgive you and

1:22:22see like Angeline there and the SR. No north north of

1:22:2452.

1:22:25Yes.

1:22:26Angeline's south of fifty two. Okay. So it was taken out. You sure that's not for G Ranch?

1:22:34Yeah.

1:22:35W no we no we don't have any uh

1:22:39Four G's west of uh the map that they got from the MPO, can you go back one more? And I don't know if you changed it from what

1:22:46Well that that's that's a uh

1:22:47I meant to talk to them about this.

1:22:52Yeah this this this must this map has a lot of mistakes on it. If you look they've included um Where did what Seth go? Oh. So they've got uh Albar and Cross Bar being developed here. They have um the 4,000 acres of Starkey Ranch that was mitigated for the Suncoast Parkway on here. Um I So that there are some well fields on here that you can see I

1:23:24think that protected land that Commissioner Schrader and uh you know south of 52 is on here. So this this map is way up And needs to be corrected.

1:23:36Okay.

1:23:39We we we we utilize this as a base, but we got into more uh detailed information where we actually have uh known development. So as you can see here, those particular areas you just mentioned don't have to be.

1:23:50I'm just concerned that our MPO map is so incorrect.

1:23:55Yes me. Just wanted to share that with you guys. So

1:23:59this is an issue at Mempio. So I I think it's something we need to As as we take this plan, let's go back and relook at the data. Are we getting the right numbers? Are these projections accurate? Because if they're not. We might want to adjust what we're doing.

1:24:16I think what he's saying is is he did not you did not utilize the M PO map necessarily as a as a foundation. It was one of many population projections that you used and then looked at development patterns to solidify the blue map, Gina?

1:24:31To solidify the blue map, which are areas that we know where development and more intense development is coming, which is which is where your water demand is.

1:24:38Right, where we had more accurate information where we actually have development submitted. We we have a in our GAS, we've got a development slayer where we show all the approved M PUDs and Yeah, I think this is

1:24:48like the map that we have at that I had printed in our in our office.

1:24:52So where we have that more accurate information we use that with with other areas that we don't have that then we would go with the with the MPO numbers.

1:25:04All right, but I mean you're going on just what's been approved. What about what could be upcoming that's going through the process or could be coming through the process? I mean there's the there's developments up in Hudson area that I don't think you're accounting for. Um So I just I just don't know how accurate this information is based upon

1:25:23our big plan. It depends. Uh remember we this we started this two years ago, so the data is w it is uh it this we can't keep updating it as we go with the results. We we finished the master plan uh at the end of uh at the end of twenty twenty five. So Um the work they were being had been doing was mostly done at the FY twenty four. So if you've got some more recent developments that they wouldn't be necessarily in included in this master plan.

1:25:52So if you're not accounting for what's actually occurring based upon past information or what you've got I don't know if that's the best information to go forward to figure out what's really gonna happen out there. And if we're gonna make these big investments, et cetera, we need to know. Is this gonna go this way or do we think it might go the other way? And and and and may that may take a meeting with growth management to Sit down and actually take a look at what what's going on in these areas.

1:26:16So Commissioner Joseph Amor, Utilities Director again. So the plan that was developed really looked at the twenty years. So we look at um existing and then the future projections. Um Uh I believe what the team the data the team used reflected um what is um being approved, what exists and what we're looking for in the next 20 years. Now the the key about this master plan is we're gonna be updating it. Um uh very so often as and when development expand. So we're

1:26:46gonna be updating it in the next three years of three to five years. Um but I'm very confident that the data that we use reflect um what has been the existing population and what we are projecting.

1:27:00Commissioner Weightman. So based on the discussion, I mean this is essentially a one point two billion dollar decision on this board.

1:27:14And we all know when we because data kinda lags budgets automatically increase, right? Like look at Ridge Road. So as we're projecting this and the estimate to do all this work is is valued is a b is is the $1.2 billion investment into this work based on 2024. Data or is it based upon you know, the current atmosphere

1:27:44because if it's based on twenty f twenty four then one point two billion i we're gonna be short.

1:27:54Um Again. Um again it's based on Okay, so this is looking into the future. So we're not using only existing population data, but we're looking at what is being projected, the growth that is expected to happen within those specific geographic areas. for the next 10 to 20 years. That's what we're looking at. So because the idea is that we want growth to continue to pay for growth. So in order to do that, we want to make sure that we're not getting too ahead of too

1:28:24much ahead of ourselves, but then also keeping pace. So we're looking at the most immediate critical period is the next 10 years where growth is expected to happen. But then even we're looking at Up to what twenty years, right?

1:28:38So based on that City of Tampa by twenty thirty two ish. Plus or minus a c a couple of years. They're gonna have to stop dumping their fifty million gallons a day of reclaim into sixty million gallons a day into Tampa Bay. Yeah. And so they're gonna have to find a use for that reclaim. Water. And quite frankly, I hope we're it. And I think within this

1:29:08plan, there needs to be a reclaim plan if we're projecting out twenty years, right, you're planning for twenty years. I th I'm hopeful that we can have some real discussions with our neighbors to the south in the city of Tampa. That we can capture their reclaim. as a resource, which from my understanding talking with you all would be enough reclaim supply. to supply all the lawn watering needs or a big b or bulk of it throughout our county, which means we're not

1:29:38watering landscape with potable water, which theoretically would bring that average use down, right, of of of uh per household. So I know that that's obviously going to be wildly expensive, but if we're coming up with a 20-year plan, knowing that the city of Tampa has has a has to come up with a solution here in the within that time frame. Uh I I'd like to somewhat incorporate incorporate

1:30:09uh some level of plan With within this uh

1:30:17cost or what we're gonna have to spend because I think can't speak for the board but seemingly we d we we don't want to waste potable water uh and and they have a resource that we need and it's incredibly valuable and I'd I'd hate to see it continue to go to waste and being just just dumped into the bay or or wherever. So um

1:30:43Yeah, Commissioner Oakley. To your point, yes, we we're looking at all that. The the th the great thing about this team is that we look at um as we're going through the planning phases, we're looking at things more holistically. Um I think we already have that conversation. We initiated that conversation with the city of Tampa about a year ago. You can speak to it.

1:31:04Yes, we we've we've met with the we've met with the city of Tampa and uh to discuss what what you were just talking about and um They have no interest in in uh sending pool water to Piasco County. Not pool,

1:31:19they're reclaiming. Well they have but they have a problem and they have to comply with state law and we're hope I'm hopeful that that we we we can be some level of solution for For them. And they'd be paid for their use. So hopefully the city of Tampa has a change of fault.

1:31:40Okay, right. Yeah, because they're right now they're their plan their plan is to do a deep wall injection with that. We

1:31:45don't

1:31:45that's such a waste.

1:31:46Well by the river, but to store up the the river? Tampa Hillsborough River?

1:31:52That's that's another option is to uh bring up the levels of the Hillsborough River that but that requires additional treatment but But but right now they they consider it a valuable resource, and even though Um I know that their their council um did not want it to wanna go the uh the direct or indirect portable uh reuse route um a couple of years ago. Um they they're still looking at it as a valuable resource that they can use in the future and that Uh they're not interested in

1:32:22delivering that water to us right now.

1:32:24Well, I I hope we don't give up asking. The worst thing the worst response we can receive out of city is no. But I I think there's value in continuing to ask if if we can help them with their reclaim help them use their reclaim water and who knows maybe there'll be a change of heart and a willingness but it's it it'd be such such a nice addition to our and we

1:32:50did a planning level estimate like i in i in case they were willing to uh either sell or uh provide uh reclaim water and uh just like a planning level estimate about two hundred million dollars to to bring that uh reclaim water uh to Pasco County.

1:33:10So let me give only a little background as well. When I first was elected, when I found out it was fifty-five million gallons a day being dumped into the bay. Um the Bay May actually come back on the seagrass. It was getting better and better because they did some advanced treatment. But It's now gone backwards. And now the old Tampa Bay, they just they're spending millions now taking a look at. I've le recently found out in the past couple of years that there's two other cities actually dumping reclaim water per se into that bay as well. That's not certainly not helping.

1:33:42I think if we're gonna make a solution we gotta do something different than before. Because when Mayor Buckland was in there before, he said, no, we're going to keep this, we're going to do something else with it. Now that we have the data. that we found when we took our reclaimed water and pumped it up in the 4G rancher of that project, it raised water levels. And I think it increases flow if you can do that. I was saying we should take that water all the way up to crossbar. And maybe it takes a different type of structure of a deal to work with the city. Maybe it's gonna take something to say, look, Swift

1:34:12Mind is now spending money on now water sources. You've got fifty-five million gallons, you've got other millions there. Maybe they should look at taking that reclaimed water, pumping it into northern Pasco, make our flush uh water fields flush, and then let Tampa Bay water from there pump the water back up down and let Mother Nature do more treatment on it. That may be an approach that might work, especially if the city gets a benefit, because they got to buy so much water from us. Because they only take so much out of the Hillsborough River when the flows are low. If this increases those flows It makes it easier for 'em or we

1:34:42you can just do a straight deal with them to let them buy the water cheaper. But it's gonna take a bigger conversation. You can't just have the same approach and expect a different result. My opinion.

1:34:55Okay. So the short answer is yes. Um we hear you. We're gonna be um dialoguing with um the city of Tampa to look at the options or how we can get that done.

1:35:04Yeah, just just don't get discouraged.

1:35:06Yeah, sure. Okay.

1:35:08They were talking about that when I was on the water management board. At that time we were working on a pipe to bring that water up to Pasco. That was twenty years ago.

1:35:16I was thinking two rivers would be the perfect project to start it because it's Hillsboro and Pasco.

1:35:22And in the nineties manatee was undercunt. discussions with the city of Tampa to bring the same water south to them.

1:35:31They've

1:35:31been

1:35:31a little bit more than that.

1:35:31So at least they're they're

1:35:33consistent and they're no.

1:35:36All right, I just want to bring up a couple of uh of of the big potable projects that are identified in the master plan. Uh so the first one is we we need to get more water into our system. So uh so the the first project that we're looking at is expanding the Lake Bridge point of connection. So the Lake Bridge point of connection is down uh at the county south county line. It's just located just east of Interstate 75. and uh and and west of Bruce B Downs. And so what we're proposing to

1:36:07do is expand that the Tampa Bay Waters uh Lake Bridge uh point of connection, pump pumping capacity, and then construct a large diameter transmission line from the the Lake Bridge point of connection. Over to our southeast uh water treatment plant. And then what we would do is eventually we would uh convert that water treatment plant uh into a repump station and then also and then we'd have transmission means coming out of there and then

1:36:37Delivering that water up into the VOPH area so that we can get more water supply up there to meet their peak demands.

1:36:47Another project that's short-term project that's been identified is getting water up to the SR-52 corridor. Uh So we've got projects going on right now on SR 52 where we are participating with the with the developers to construct uh infrastructure on 52. Uh they're trying to beat the uh F DOT uh deadline for the uh expansion. So that construction is actually going on right now. We're doing a

1:37:17a cost-sharing agreement with those developers. But we'll also need to uh construct additional transmission lines down the air and cutoff and eventually we want to tie over back to uh US 41 near our uh Tampa Bay Water point of connection at that point so we can have more deliver water delivered up into that area.

1:37:43Uh longer term, I I mentioned uh we that one of the things we had identified is getting a new Tampa Bay Water point of connection. And uh so in our master plan they uh identified a potential location which would be uh we they call it Cypress Street. That that name is not official or anything, that's just a the the name we gave it. And uh we we would propose to have that located near Tampa Bay Waters infrastructure, uh near their uh water

1:38:13treatment uh plant off of uh Air and Cutoff. Uh but there could be other options uh as well and uh And and one of the things uh Tampa Bay Water uh requires if we're if we're gonna request a new point of connection, they need a uh either a a letter or a memorandum of understanding from our Board of County Commissioners to re to formally request a a new point of connection so they can dedicate the resources for the planning, uh design,

1:38:44and construction of of the point of connection. And we we have drafted up a letter. uh uh from the board um that we'll be presenting uh at a at a future meeting. Mr. Storpey.

1:38:56Uh question on the Aaron Cutoff line. Um so you would be digging a trench in the right-of-way to put the pipe in?

1:39:06Yes, uh the the again this is just a planning level. Uh this is not a detailed uh route study, but that that's the general route. We

1:39:12can never have a presentation without the word trail in it. So um so if you're it and I'm just wondering there's there's there are no sidewalks in there in cutoff, right?

1:39:27But we also have call your parkway coming up right near there. Is that correct?

1:39:31The extension.

1:39:32Yeah, so

1:39:33the rail study is underway currently.

1:39:35Yeah, so I would just throw out one of two things. If you do go up air and cutoff, can we get a sidewalk on top of it so people can move around safely? Or does it make more financial financial sense to put this, so tearing up a long Aaron, to put it along Collier?

1:39:56So

1:39:58Just I think from a planning level it's they're they're equal to the utilities, so I think they can coordinate with tenants. I'm

1:40:04looking at the fifty million dollars. For that one. So if we get some more benefit out of it. Then uh that would be good. 'Cause I don't know how much right are you having to buy right away along Aaron for that? There's not much there.

1:40:19It I mean there's existing right-of-way there. Again, uh there need to be a uh more detailed route study to identify any any shortfalls of of uh right-of-way or easements.

1:40:34Uh so this is an overall summary uh from the potable water uh master plan. Uh it's just some of the projects that I went through and and and uh and a few others is uh their five-year summary um estimate is about two hundred and uh fifty-nine million dollars of uh potable water projects and uh and then our ten-year um uh summary estimating 197 million dollars uh for for projects.

1:41:03Let me just stop you just for a second. So look at that Lake Bridge connection. It's down in is that in down in Hillsborough County?

1:41:11Uh uh the Lake Bridge it it's in Pasco County just across the Hillsborough County.

1:41:15Used to be my district way back when

1:41:18I mean is that the best way to to run the water or is we take a look at going from north to south? Because you're gonna be passing some developments along the way as well.

1:41:30Yeah. Please also keep in mind that right now Tampa Bay Water is drilling an experimental well in the northeastern part of our county uh near Christian Power Line Roads. If that turns out to be a good groundwater source supply, that point of connection might be somewhere between that Christian Road site and the Tampa Bay water site on uh uh Pump Station Road off of Erin. So it's somewhere in the generally eastern part of the county that we need additional water supply.

1:41:55Well, I'm gonna be I'm gonna I'm gonna caution the board as far as that comes forward too, because I think we've heard a lot of comments about data center with water supply, et cetera. You try to put a well up there while all those people are on their own well systems, there could be some issues coming up.

1:42:14All right, so the next uh master plan wastewater master plan. And uh this this uh table just shows the the status of our existing uh wastewater treatment facilities, showing what their uh permitted capacity is and and what flows they're currently using. As you can see, many of our treatment plants are uh nearing capacity.

1:42:39So some of the we we have some uh expansions that are currently in progress. The Southeast uh wastewater treatment facility is being expanded from three to uh uh six million gallons per day, and that is uh that project is at substantial completion. And uh Land Oak Land O' Lakes water wastewater treatment facility uh that That uh plants undergoing an expansion from three point five to five million gallons per day. and uh that's uh currently under contract

1:43:09with a progressive design builder. The design is completed and the construction is speculated to be completed by year 2029. The cost of that was provided by the Progressive Design Builders $157 million approximately. That cost although that cost includes upgrading the existing uh 3.5 uh million gallon uh plant to advanced treatment.

1:43:43That's a requirement, right?

1:43:46Advanced treatment. Did do do you know the like is is uh is is advanced treatment an actual requirement now or is that uh Or is that it's still on the uh

1:43:57It's not an actual requirement right now, but it is where we are discharging reclaimed water within the WikiWachi uh basin area. So in those areas we're required to lower nitrogen levels to a certain amount, and the only way to do that is with advanced treatment. What we're trying to discern right now is whether we need all the wastewater plants to go to advanced treatment or only the ones that discharge reclaimed water to the WikiWachi basin to then that would minimize. Yeah.

1:44:24And if I could, what are the what are the cost differences percentage-wise going from advanced wastewater to regular?

1:44:31Uh we uh anticipate that expanding an existing plant without advanced treatment is somewhere in the thirty uh dollars per gallon range, whereas the advanced treatment portion uh where we're expanding existing plants, adding an advanced treatment component, that could be anywhere from sixty to a hundred dollars uh per gallon additional for the advanced treatment part of it.

1:44:54That's a big number. That's a

1:44:55huge number. So if if if we're looking at these plants, and as far as well.

1:45:05Come on. Good.

1:45:09He's got some. There did you add the chart that I asked for? Is it in here or I can email it to my fellow commissioner? It's the it's the c total it's the total numbers. Yes. Is that in here? Yes. Okay

1:45:28Okay, so um We also have s uh identified uh Some two other wastewater treatment facilities that need expansion in the coming years. Wesley Center wastewater treatment facility. We've identified a need to expand that facility from nine million gallons per day to 13.5. That that expansion is currently again with a per progressive design build. It's in the selection process, expected

1:45:59to start design later this calendar year. And based on a four-year design. Design and construction schedule expected completion approximately uh 2031. And uh Again using a planning uh level construction cost uh for that expansion would be approximately two hundred eighty five million dollars Um That cost does not include uh upgrading

1:46:29the existing facility to advanced treatment. That's just the um But that's just the cost of the expansion.

1:46:38And then um Shady Hills, that is uh planned for expansion from 14 to 21 million gallons per day. Um based on our based on the uh report, our master plan report, uh uh flows uh that ex that expansion is shown that it's needed by year approximately year 2032 although uh we we may be able to do some flow diversions uh between plants that

1:47:09would that could allow that expansion to be deferred by one to two years. And that uh planning level construction cost is approximately four hundred fifty-five uh million dollars. Again, that does not include uh the cost of upgrading the existing facility to advanced treatment. Commissioner Weightman. Thank you.

1:47:31So based on projections, should the so should the the property tax uh referendum pass? I wouldn't be surprised if it opened the floodgates for more people to move to Florida. That way they could get on the five year waiting list. Oh. Um they're gonna wanna start their clock, right? Like they're gonna want their homestead exemption so I would not be at all surprised if the if the property tax item passed it. There'll be another

1:48:01wave of a pile of m folks continuing to move to Florida for not short term, but for years to come, right? Do we have or are we capable of capturing any type of data That could project With some level of accuracy uh a migration level. We had the you know the great COVID migration of folks moving here uh when COVID was going on uh

1:48:32but folks are continuing to move to Florida because of taxes but if the property tax referendum passes uh I just it's going to add more and more folks coming into the state and Tampa Bay area and Pasco. So it'd be nice if if there was a way to have some sort of growth projection of folks moving here from the state. or wherever, even if it's loose, I mean, even if it's incredibly conservative, but some level of of

1:49:02guidance uh I think would be helpful as We're looking towards the future with this type of work because

1:49:12It's it we'll be back at the table again come twenty thirty five, you know. So

1:49:20I hadn't thought of that. I we discussed that in our meeting yesterday and just, you know, how are how would we even be able to keep up with that?

1:49:31And I'll I'll throw something out that I was talking about as well. You know, the Hudson plants have been shut down. Uh we're working on dem d demolishing it now. We've got land up there along Denton. uh that was set up for ribs. Is that being used at all, those ribs?

1:49:48The the Ribs is a permanent facility and they they are being used uh they if if if if needed.

1:49:56I'm

1:49:56sorry? They are they are it

1:49:58is

1:49:58a permitted facility that we depend on for wet weather uh flows.

1:50:04Okay. Is there so when you take that you take this wastewater treated and you just pump it into the soil, correct?

1:50:13Yes.

1:50:14I I just wonder is if we're taking that, can we use that for reclaim water instead of just pumping it into the ground?

1:50:21It well f first of all it it's it's it's not that much. Um and it's and it's and it's only during the r uh an extreme uh wet wet time of the year when There isn't a a demand for reclaimed water. So It's a storage issue. Yes.

1:50:42Have we looked at trying to improve our storage?

1:50:45Well, they said the ROI wasn't good. Right.

1:50:47We we uh when I get to the uh reclaim water I there's a little blip on the storage there. I mean

1:50:53cons consider we now get revenue from this reclaim water. I'm looking at these numbers and they're absolutely phenomenal. Not even advanced wastewater on that bottom one. I mean if there's if there's something more efficient to be done with smaller plants along the way, maybe we should be taking a look at that as as This advanced wastewater treatment plant, would that number compared to if you found a better way to go use it for reclaim water, maybe that's a better way to actually Instead of having to do the advanced wastewater if we can put it into reclaim water, uh, would we be better off?

1:51:21We are improving the storage for our reclaimed water system. Just today, you approved a task order to look at designing another storage tank at South East so that we can balance daytime production of reclaimed water with nighttime irrigation flows. We're also looking at optimizing the storage volume in our Boyette reservoir to maximize that storage volume there to send out to wastewater customers. Our priority is to send that reclaimed water to wastewater customers. But when they don't need it, we still have to discharge it somewhere and that's what the the ribs are for.

1:51:52I live over in Beacon Woods and on the Gulf Coast. They haven't been spraying much water at all. All of a sudden we have two days of rain and they're just sprayed it all day long. to go to make up for the shortage. Um Ponds have gotten low pretty much everywhere I've been out and around and uh through the summer, especially toward the end there's gotta be a lot. There still people out there. If there's reclaimed water and you can say you got the extra storage, the people would use it. So I don't know where you need to store it because right now there's such a demand

1:52:22for it and you can't meet keep up with the demand with all the pipes we've got in the ground anyway. People are dying for more. They will be able to do that. They will use it, especially if it means doing it. So as far as just having storage errors we just Dumping in the ground, I think people trying to use it anyway

1:52:36might be better off. Yeah, Chair. I mean wait we're we're fifty million gallons short a day to meet reclaim need right now, aren't we? Is that what was in our briefing?

1:52:48That is the projected shortfall, yes, based on the same level of demand that we have now.

1:52:53But w okay, where's your chart that shows the cost of of storing it? Didn't didn't you say that That was very, very, very expensive. Storing the record cost. Maybe I missed

1:53:08no I don't I don't think there was a storage cost.

1:53:14Okay, well let 'em let 'em go on and then 'cause I I I want to say something about the New Port Richey wastewater treatment facility. Oh, where's the Wait Newport Witching one?

1:53:24I I'm sorry that

1:53:26didn't you have the new port which he Where's the new Port Richey? Uh, wastewater treatment facility on here.

1:53:35There there's a uh here. This this shows the current uh uh wastewater treatment facilities is which shows their uh permitted capacity and as well as what the flowers sending to Newport Ritchie is uh that's that's a uh that's not a Pasco County facility, it's owned by Newport, Newport Ritchie. And we have an agreement for them to treat uh three million gallons per day. Is this the is this what you're saying? Yeah, that's what I

1:54:04was saying. I I I just want to remind you all that um thanks to um Speaker Sprouse, at the end of that legislative year, might have been it's the last year, I'm not sure, we got what, three million dollars and we sleep all the leaking pipes in Gulf Harbors and it was having serious salt water intrusion and it was swamping the New Port Richey plant. So we gained a lot more capacity when we um sleeved all those pipes. So that was a really good project.

1:54:34Let me ask this question about that. So I'm looking at that slide and I didn't pick up on it when we had our meeting, but You say the permit could pass you three million. The plant is at 2.7, 2.07. But I I recall from a slideshow that they were like There were like five or six hundred thousand dollars over capacity. I know we talked, I think when David Allen was still there, we talked about getting some lines in there to go run them out to take take out the reclaim water that's there. Did that those are those lines in place now and that's what's

1:55:04dropped this down?

1:55:10Yeah.

1:55:12So

1:55:15The capacity of uh the permanent capacity of New Port Richey is 7.5 million gallons per day. And we have an agreement with them to treat three million gallons per day. And we're we're currently sending two million gallons per day to New Port Richey so we're using

1:55:32We're under capac we're under our capacity.

1:55:34Yes. Okay, so are are we t now taking extra reclaim water out of there that wasn't in the case like two years ago?

1:55:42No, we're taking all the reclaimed water they produce, I understand, from that plant. They're they are hovering from what the data that we saw around sixty to sixty five percent of the total permitted capacity between all the plant all the flows that they treat plus uh Pasco County's flows that go to that plant.

1:55:56Uh does anyone recall when the they were presenting and they they showed us that they were over capacity?

1:56:01Well that's w we that was before we sleeved Gulf Hoppers.

1:56:04No, it was even after that. I mean this is like this is like something David when you were there you were working on it to to make that happen as part of a project.

1:56:12Yeah Commissioner Oriana um I don't recall that they were overcapacity. I think part of the challenge was that they didn't have sufficient capacity to um get rid of their excess flows, particularly during wet wet periods. And so what we were looking at was options to be able to take their excess flows to

1:56:32Okay, so has that taken place? I'm not sh I'm not a I I I would not be in a position to provide we know

1:56:40that.

1:56:45We checked the last three years worth of their plant flow data and it didn't show any discharges to the bay in the last three years. It did show excessive flows during the Milton and Helene periods a couple of years ago. But as I understood it, we took all that reclaimed water. It wasn't any additional discharges to the Bay in the last three years that we had to account for. We have other projects in the area to try to expand what we can take from New Port Richey. I believe the the the the constriction is right at the point of connection between the cities and the counties uh

1:57:15transmission pipeline that we're studying, but we haven't taken any additional flows beyond what we're contracted to take from them.

1:57:22All right, cause I I'll talk to the doctors out there that have sent us emails. I'm sure we all got 'em at some point. I know I but uh the the flows were so bad they were actually you could see it toppling from the top of the w the t water containers there coming down. They had to pressure clean them and go and you could smell it. So if that did get resolved so be it. But I'd like you guys to dig into more to find out if we actually did resolve that.

1:57:44We will. We'll follow up with the city staff on that.

1:57:46Thank you.

1:57:49Right. Can I go on? Right, so the key findings and recommendations from the wastewater master plan are some of the wastewater flows are projected to exceed the capacities of some of our wastewater treatment facilities in all planning periods. Therefore, significant investment in wastewater treatment facility infrastructure. Expansion and other infrastructure is needed in all our planning periods. Flow shifting or diversions between wastewater treatment facilities and enhancing conveyance capacity are

1:58:20critical strategies to optimize the use of permitted treatment capacity at the wastewater treatment facilities. In others, that may allow us to do some deferral of a facility.

1:58:33This is an overall summary of capital improvement costs for growth. Again, this is just for growth projects. Five-year $659 million and $10 year $537 million.

1:58:52Um next uh next plan is the Reclaim Watermaster Plan. Some of the key findings and recommendations. What we did in the demands we wanted in in the plan was we wanted to calculate what the unitary use of reclaimed water was using the more recent data. Um there used to be a higher much higher demand uh higher usage back when uh reclaimed water was basically given away or if you just had a flat

1:59:22cost so people if if they don't pay more, if they're using more, then they're just gonna take as much as they can. So uh so we wanted to go uh uh go on the more recent data and we've come up with uh unit demand of four hundred thir four hundred and thirty one gallons per day per equivalent residential unit. Now each uh res equivalent residential unit produces uh two hundred gallons per day uh wastewater so Um so

1:59:52therefore you've got a a a two hundred and thirty-one gallon per day gap between what a home uses for irrigation versus what it produces in wastewater. So in other words it takes two point two single family homes to provide enough reclaim water for one single family home. So as you can see over time as more units come in uh you're gonna be using a lot more than what's being produced. Um so we're actually seeing uh that the average uh

2:00:23Demand will exceed supply by year twenty thirty. And by twenty forty five um There would be a 35 million gallon per day gap between the the demand for reclaimed water and the supply, the wastewater supply, if uh we were to supply reclaimed water to all new customers. So uh our consultant looked at two different uh demand sets of calculating what the demands would be. One is the full potential, which would be again

2:00:53supplying reclaim water to all new uh all new population, and because of that gap, uh that would require uh augmentation. They also looked at at a what we call prioritize. So in other words, taking what what's the available supply of reclaimed water based on that growth, and then you just use using that number and figure figuring out where that can be distributed. So that would require no offer. augmentation. But that

2:01:23means not every new uh customer would would get reclaimed water. So you'd have to basically kind of put a boundary around your area.

2:01:33Can I ask you a quick question? When you when you did all this, did you take into account of some of the utilities uh companies that we may be absorbing?

2:01:44Yes. Yes, yes we do.

2:01:46That we will be

2:01:46absorbing. Yeah. Yes.

2:01:51Um the um and so the back the back of the question on uh they looked at well can we put in large storage uh to you know to address these average uh demands and and we found that Putting additional large storage provides minimal improvement and meeting the average daily demand coverage.

2:02:14So the the the storage provides it is really provides help with your monthly, your seasonal daily, monthly peaks um to to do that, but it doesn't really help you to do to meet your overall average, uh exceeding your overall average demands because You just don't have enough water to it it has to come in from somewhere. Um overall it's just what you're using more than than what's coming in. So over the longer period of time you're just gonna have a gap.

2:02:46Well let me ask a question. Um and I've talked with the people at Seven Springs Country Club down there. And you know, the Cody River's an impaired water body, right? And their pawns have like silted in over time, like has probably happened elsewhere as well. I I don't know how you figure out what your cost is to provide more storage, but Should we take a look at all these golf courses per se and other storage areas that are out there to say to find out I'm not gonna have to recreate something.

2:03:15Oh fill up their pond.

2:03:17I'm gonna just but I gotta create the capacity for it 'cause it's all muck that's in there right now.

2:03:21But they should be cleaning those out.

2:03:23They should be, but guess what? It doesn't matter.

2:03:25They

2:03:25should

2:03:25be cleaning it up.

2:03:26And it it happens el elsewhere too. But I'm what I'm saying is I don't know how you do your calculations on your ROI, whether it's worth it or not, but if I've got these existing areas and and again You know, on the Enclo River, it's an impaired water body. I think we should go look at what does it take to go take the silt out of there, create that more storage. We just spent a bun a few hundred thousand dollars there a few years ago just trying to create another pond that's there, but I got existing ponds that that probably there, and there's probably a bunch of other golf courses too that were designed and accepted for. They

2:03:56were going to take care of our stormwater. So if I get these existing things that are in they can benefit and actually reduce the amount of reclaim that water they're gonna need, maybe we should go put a plan together to go take a look at that as part of our long term

2:04:08master plan. So take a look and see if there are less expensive storage options that would come back with a better ROI.

2:04:14Right, because if you go to go build a whole new facility, that's one thing. But if I can go take the ones that are existing that are not working as well as they used to be. Then let's go take a look at it. I mean Timber uh Heritage Springs might be another one. Fox Hollow could be another one. that that could do. And I know we've had the conversation with Fox Hollow. So I think there's some opportunities out there we're not taking a look at and With this huge number. that's up there to build all these facilities. I think maybe we can improve what we got out there that's existing that could be a lot s less expensive than you guys have calculated.

2:04:43It's worth a look. Can I

2:04:45start

2:04:46following up on that and we're at we're past twelve, so sorry to ask this question. Um On the d there are stormwater ponds that never hold any water. Are are they designed that way? Uh is it a dry stormwater pond? And one comes to mind is next to Chasco Elementary because when I was on the school board we were letting Um little we're letting teams play football in that pond because there's never ever any water in it. And it's high there, right? That's sand underneath. Um, are those designed to never

2:05:16hold water? And stonewater pond versus the detention versus retention.

2:05:22Yes, Commissioner, there's uh two or three different types of pond. What you consider you're describing is a dry pond where that volume is available during the rainfall event and immediately within a couple of days after the rainfall event, it's supposed to percolate the entire volume through the soil. There are other ponds that have a permanent pool of water that has some minimal storage and then some overflow up to the top of the water.

2:05:45So some ponds hold water for an extended period of time permanently, and others are just dry during only the storm and a few days after the storm that are full with water.

2:05:59I just wonder if they could be used for stores that