Accessory dwelling unit proposed ordinance

2:52:37So Mr. Chairman before Patrick starts. Um since this is one where you already had a workshop on it. Would it be okay if we just asked Patrick to just talk about what he changed since the workshop? That would be great. That would be fantastic.

2:52:55David,

2:52:55come on.

2:52:56Patrick,

2:52:56he's your friend.

2:52:59Listen, I'm trying to play pickleball later, so that's great with me. Okay. You're too young for pickleball. So if you could just focus on white.

2:53:09Yeah

2:53:10it is. So if you could just focus on what you change.

2:53:14I can do that.

2:53:15Um

2:53:17So this presentation will be a little bit um quick, I guess. Um so accessory dwelling units, I think from the previous workshop we talked about uh the importance, why we're doing them, all that type of stuff. We went through all the previous regulations that we were proposing. Um some of the specific concerns I think the Planning Commission had at the time was um uh in in terms of uh areas in the county where accessory dwelling units um may not be appropriate. Um maybe there's uh problems with stormwater, problem with I'm sorry to interrupt.

2:53:46He

2:53:46just

2:53:46wanted you to say your

2:53:46name for

2:53:47the right-of-way.

2:53:47Well, I'm

2:53:47sorry

2:53:48about that. Yeah. Uh Patrick Dutter, uh planning development, economic growth. Um so there might be areas that aren't appropriate for accessory dwelling units. So you asked that we reached out to some other county departments to get some feedback. Uh we reached out to the fire departments, stormwater team, the building construction services team, utilities group. Um we said, hey, we're bringing accessory dwelling units in front of the planning commission and the board. Uh are there any areas that you guys can think of specifically where you might not want to see accessory dwelling units? Uh none of them were

2:54:18necessarily concerned about accessory dwelling units. They think the regulations we have on the books I think were sufficient. Um so those were some of the answers that we received. If you have any specific questions on those departments, I can maybe try and elaborate a little further.

2:54:31I do. Um

2:54:34We just had a workshop on stormwater. And I get the answer to that question generally, but There are a few areas that we're counting that I think Commissioner Starkey called them anomalies.

2:54:47And

2:54:47I'll give you an Thousand Oak. Okay. So I just wanna make sure that I'm clear about this. So stormwater would be perfectly okay if we added accessory dwelling in a ten thousand oaks.

2:55:00So I didn't give them specific neighborhood examples and say think about this area. Um I asked the question generally and then uh Stormwater also directed me to building construction services to talk to some of the engineers. We have in building construction services who are responsible for permitting structures themselves. Um and their opinion was, you know, the air we have the the existing regulations we have in terms of floodproofing buildings and making sure buildings are. I

2:55:26guess where I'm going with the question is I I get that our existing regulations might require the accessory and dwelling unit to be sort of elevated In an area. It's like thousand oaks, but My understanding is in Thousand Oak, the st streets flawed. Like so badly that in a storm that emergency vehicles cannot get to The residences. So it seems like if you approved an accessory dwelling unit in Thousand Oaks it might Even

2:55:58if it was out of even if the structure wasn't flooded Getting to it.

2:56:05So

2:56:10I'm not saying Stormwater doesn't know what they're doing. I just but I it just That answer doesn't make sense to me for Thousand Oaks. Okay.

2:56:17Um if you would like between now and the board I can go back to specifically some stormwater folks and try and um maybe and maybe work with you to find some areas specifically that we may need to take a closer look.

2:56:31So Pat? Can I ask a question about that? Patrick and Warren.

2:56:36I know I had brought that issue up. during the first presentation and Patrick is professional enough to have followed up and called me back to discuss it with me and his findings. And I appreciate that. Um So There's different kinds of ADUs. There's the kind of ADU where we close in the garage or make a separate entrance into a house and maybe add a little kitchenette into the house or

2:57:07something so we're not really adding stormwater in that case. And then there's the type of ADU where um building grandma's shack in the back. Where I am adding to the stormwater to your point David or I'm trying to understand. Are you more concerned about the increase in the population or the increase of the stormwater runoff in the area? Both.

2:57:32I mean I I guess I And and I wanna be clear, I'm not talking in probably ninety five percent of the county, I'm not sure I have this concern. Right.

2:57:45My concern is if we have known areas where where during a Significant storm event.

2:57:54We know it's flooding into homes. You know, like in the case of Thousand Oaks, my understanding is they'll

2:58:01They're It got so bad that the streets were basically the streets were completely covered with water. So it seems to me if you're adding perfect surface you're gonna maybe even make it worse. So that's part of the concern. But I guess my bigger concern is

2:58:16has a a rescue situation in in that area Say it's the grandma on the accessory dwelling unit.

2:58:25We're not gonna be able to get to them unless we're unless the sheriff is getting the boats out there and like

2:58:37So the question is I

2:58:38mean I don't want to be clear. I fully support accessory drilling and so I think they're helpful to I mean we think we have a housing supply issue. I think we need to allow them. I'm just I'm just a little shocked at Stormwater's answer. Yeah, I admittedly Patrick didn't phrase the question to them that way, but My question my question my the real I would like Stormwater to be able to tell me to my face and the board to their face Why it's okay that we're adding additional units and

2:59:09thousand oaks. That's the That's a the that may be the most egregious example, but there may be others. Sure there's others. Well

2:59:15on this I I

2:59:17I

2:59:17I want to ask it more from the legal practical side of it. I I understand your point. I agree with your point and that was one of my concerns early on about this and I'm like you, I'm in favor of this. How do we deal with that? So can we do we can the Can the county create Lists. of due to flooding concerns

2:59:47in this neighborhood we're not do they do this on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis or do they have How how How would we create in the code restrictions in places that are known five years ago?

3:00:00Yeah, I mean this is why I was kinda hoping Stormwater's answer would have been something like here's the five areas of the county where we know we have I mean, in theory we could map them and say in these five areas of the county where we have known flooding issues It will require special exception approval to get it. I mean it's not saying that you can never have an ADU, but you would you would

3:00:27public maybe staff could put additional conditions I I don't know. I mean I I

3:00:32could you be more general about the wording and the code to say in areas of special flood concern. That way if there's any new areas that pop in.

3:00:39Let me better ask the question. Is it some so for instance like the staff has a development manual and they can update their development manual without coming to the planning commission. They're not changing the code. Could that be like in a in a

3:00:57administered document where we have these restrictions or would we need when we're dealing with this would we need to have it codified where there would have to be public hearing board votes

3:01:12and

3:01:14I do think that homeowners have s need some level of Predictability as to whether I mean There should be something in the code that says whether you do or do not get an ADU. I mean whether uh or whether uh you have to go through some additional process to get your ADU. I don't There are probably some things you could put in a development manual, but I we'd not I don't know that we've historically used the development manual for that purpose so the development manual tends to be more Procedural

3:01:42Yeah, and I don't mean the development manual itself. I mean something similar to that where you could have an ADU manual that Well, the board's determined or the board could pass a resolution, perhaps, that due to problems of access during times of flooding, we are not going to allow ADUs in this neighborhood or

3:02:04Yeah, but I guess there is probably a way that you could fashion the code to say Um you know, except in those area it's allowed except in the areas Sure. Similar to like adrenalization of special concern, like where you you adopt some by some subsequent resolution the areas where you

3:02:29want some special treatment, whether it's special exception approval or something. Yes, that is possible to do. I mean

3:02:37But I

3:02:37mean

3:02:37I but I will tell you that to me what works better is is kind kind of of like like what what we we do with wellhead protection where I mean they're mapped. I mean they're they're with With our Will Hub Protection Regions, anybody who wants to And we did have a recent application where we didn't map it properly. Okay, but putting that putting that aside, um

3:02:58Landowners know that if they're in those areas they there's some there's special regulations that are that apply that may prohibit them from doing certain things. And so I My preferen I like predictability in your or code. I'd prefer that we have Somehow map these I mean, i if if Stormwater comes back and says it's perfectly fine for us to bat ADUs And the two thousand oaks and our board degrees, I I guess that's the answer.

3:03:25So so if I may, um maybe I can do a a better job of asking those specific questions uh to stormwater, right? I was because I I wasn't sure if it was fire, utilities, I it was probably all of them that we had concern with, but it sounds like specifically we're honing in on stormwater. So maybe I can get hone in on that specific.

3:03:45May not be the only issue, but but I the reason I'm more focused on is because We're dealing with this issue as we speak. I mean we we we have flooding that just occurred. We have to homeowners that were trapped and or lost their homes I'm sensitive to other issues like that. you know, water pressure and things like that. But I but

3:04:11I don't I don't know if those warrant the same level of heightened scrutiny heightened scrutiny in my opinion as stormwater just because of the risk that stormwater creates. But I the Planning Commission may disagree with me.

3:04:24Are you talking about uh ADUs that are cre only the ones that create per impervious purposes. Or for example if you Build an ADU on top of your g garage.

3:04:40I

3:04:40mean

3:04:40I I'm le I guess I'm less concerned if it's if it's not creating an additional impervious surface, but It does create more people to rescue. It But And a flood. I guess to me the concern goes hand in hand because

3:04:57Most of these are not they're gonna create some additional purpose surface. I guess what I'm asking. Try

3:05:02to ask it better. is there a language fix that can be added to the proposed ordinance that would

3:05:12allow the board from time to time to by resolution add certain neighborhoods to a map wherein ADUs can't be permitted because of some public

3:05:28Or they can only be by special exception.

3:05:33There is, but I to me it should still be tied to some objective criteria. If we don't want to map it, I mean maybe you know, you could probably create criteria where you say in areas where

3:05:45flooding has reached the level where it's gotten into people's homes. I mean there's probably w a language you could come up with where

3:05:56You could describe in words those areas of the county that

3:06:01There's been a serious flooding issue.

3:06:07This is why would be helpful to have stormwater here we could kind of f fashion something, but Um

3:06:14I mean for example. w I don't know if you all remember, but when we got rid of the as built requirement out of our code. We we didn't get rid of it for flood prone areas So somehow people were able to identify that as an area that needed special treatment where we were not going to get rid of the Asbuilt requirement. Maybe that's the language we use. I but m that may be too broad for you to use. I don't know. This is where I really need stormwater's expertise.

3:06:44Because they probably know better than well, you all are engineers, you maybe know better than I do. Doesn't mean we know every area of the county that floods, but I mean I mean if we wanted to come up with just language that that We're

3:06:58There's some objective standard that says if it's if the flooding has reached a certain level in this area. The

3:07:08Yeah the dang the danger, David, is it's not only necessarily from what I'm hearing and I agree with you but like a thousand oaks it's not really necessary it may not be only those houses that flood because they may have problems getting there be people getting able to get rescued from there. So it's hard to say and and tie it to a specific house. It would be some somehow some area.

3:07:34I always equate accessory dwelling units to an extent to someone adding an addition onto their existing home or something like that. We don't have a uh requirement for people that are adding a bedroom addition onto a home in Thousand Oaks to come through and get a special exception. Um, but we would do that if it were an accessory dwelling unit. So

3:07:53Well the my argument would be though that when you get to an accessory dwelling, it's adding the potential for additional. Yeah. Humans.

3:08:00Well so it was an additional room. You got a baby that just

3:08:03following up your comment, when you when we had the workshop

3:08:09Someone wouldn't need a special exception. Chute. build as Chairman Gray discussed a ADU over the garage or an ADU where we close off one section of the house and provide a separate entrance. But one would need a special exception when we were going to exceed If the ADU was going to encroach over a setback line or exceed the

3:08:39lot coverage requir lot coverage max in the zoning district, those things were gonna require special so is in this version are they all requiring S E's now? Uh what do you mean th are they all? Meaning are all eight do all ADUs in this version of the ordinance require a special exception, or do we have some that so long as they fit within the zoning parameters they don't need a special exception.

3:09:04Most are actually don't I think uh th tell me if I'm wrong, Patrick. Most of them are not going to require a special exception.

3:09:10Yeah, the the vast majority would not. It's only if you are uh attempting to go into your setback, would you need a special exception? If you were attempting to go over your lot coverage, you would need a special exception. Uh basically those development standards would trigger

3:09:24now you're you're making my point for me. To me If you're building ADU in a place like Thousand Oaks,

3:09:30mm-hmm

3:09:31That may be more egregious than intruding into a setback. I mean I

3:09:37Shouldn't that require a special exception too?

3:09:42Uh again, potentially. Uh that's to your discretion, I think, as the planning commission.

3:09:50really the crux of it should be is it gonna increase the footprint on your lot? Or i because if you build it on top of your garage it's not gonna increase the footprint of your on your lot. Or if you Chan. Mm, change a room into a Child's room instead of the garage. That's not gonna increase the footprint. But if you Add to the add to the building or build the bedroom onto the building and And now it's a three thousand square foot home instead of twenty five hundred. So

3:10:20well

3:10:21that's an interesting

3:10:23Interesting conundrum. Because And I'm sorry if the people in Thousand Oaks are listening, I don't mean to be picking on you. So

3:10:34we

3:10:34don't want more people

3:10:35to be building stuff

3:10:36in thousand

3:10:37oaks. If we went that route, what I'm going where I'm going is that if someone wanted to build an ADU They would have to do that. Then we'd be come in here and We'd say, Well, you're increasing the amount of stormwater runoff and therefore we wanna put this restriction or we wanna deny your ability to have the ADU. But if someone next door to them came in and said, Well, I just want to add another ten feet to my living room which wasn't an ADU,

3:11:08then we wouldn't look at the stormwater impact

3:11:13And that's my point.

3:11:15Yeah but I mean but The theory of an ADU is it's creating additional living unit. I mean in theory w it's Gonna have the additional kitchen, the additional I mean it's it's in theory set up so that somebody could independently live in that unit. I I do think it is different than Adding ten feet to your living room. You're adding more population to the area with an ADU in my opinion. No. Yeah, like I said, in ninety five percent of the cases I don't think this is a problem. And I even said it a lot, even if it was on a dirt road, I

3:11:45don't know that I care because that's not I don't know that that's a health safety issue. So let's let me ask this question.

3:11:52Has staff got any I don't know, scientific wild guesstimate as to the number of ADU applications they think they might receive in a year.

3:12:06Uh so I do have a wildly random Well I think we talked about it last time we actually reached out to a lot of surrounding counties and asked, you know, the frequency of how often they were getting ADUs submitted, and I think it's actually Kinda kind of in a slide here. Um so Hillsborough County they said uh between 150 and 200, Penellas County said 100, Polk County said fifty, Sumter said not really a a big amount. Um so Those are the numbers our neighbors were looking at generally.

3:12:36Um so I would think maybe for the first year or so we might see uh around those numbers, maybe more. I d I j s I don't know. But I don't think it's in the thousands.

3:12:50I mean I you talk to these residents in Thousand Oaks, they They all bought their homes thinking they had a Oh yeah. They they never had any you know, the they they were buying into paradise. Okay, and so

3:13:03Yeah. They were

3:13:05it's just wet.

3:13:07I'm just saying if you buy a home on a dirt road or where it's got got a cell tower next to it, you you're buying knowing that what Yeah. Or you move into an ADU and one of those areas, you know what you're getting into. You don't you don't really know that with Flooding and stormwater. I'm not sure that's the right-of-way.

3:13:28reason that I asked the question is perhaps the way And I personally would feel better about the ADU ordinance to start. I don't feel like I think this is a good idea. This is something I'm personally willing to support. But I think that's a good thing. Inevitably any time we try something new there's there's gonna be some successes and then there's gonna be some not so good results and we'll come back and tweak this thing. And what I'm wondering is maybe

3:13:58to start, should they just all be special exceptions so we can look at them on a case by case basis? But now the problem is we don't want to overwhelm the Planning Commission with a thousand ADU applications and we would never go home on every other thing.

3:14:11But if there's a hundred to a hundred and fifty in existence in all of Hillsborough County with the population that they have. I'm sorry, not in existence.

3:14:18Just how many were submitted over the last year? Oh

3:14:20over the last year. Okay. Applications.

3:14:25The reason I'm a little Uh A I'm concerned about overwhelming the Planning Commission, but B, I don't know that this is a concern in At least eighty percent of the county. Sure. I mean so why are you gonna make somebody who I agree.

3:14:44Go through the planning commission and uh Mr. Moody yell at them. Um even though they have you know, there's no issues with flooding in their area. I mean I I b I was hoping Stormwater would come back and say, Here's the five areas of the county that We have known flooding where we yes, we'd have some concerns with Additional appropriate service, additional residents locating into this area. I'm a little surprised they came back and said it the whole county's fine. I'm I'm a little surprised that

3:15:14they said that.

3:15:15David, can't you couldn't you just add some kind of like

3:15:18someone's gonna come

3:15:18refute this, David.

3:15:20Okay.

3:15:22Hi, I'm Larry Adkaide. I'm the uh operations manager for public works. Um uh currently right now now as far as the flooding areas, yes there are concerns of of flooding. I personally didn't review this because it's not my area for reviewing. I am the I just I work on the aftermath of most of the stuff that gets put out there. So um however, um understanding what you guys are talking about here, um so when it comes

3:15:53to your concern, let's say um thousand oaks is what you're saying. From my understanding as being on the ground out there. Thousand oaks flooded. the streets. There wasn't a single home that under my understanding that actually got water in them. So when you're when you're talking about terminology as far as how to uh put this in some kind of regulation Um as far as flooding is concerned, we gotta be careful Um because you're

3:16:23saying if if your house gets flooded at, you know, X amount of feet or how much water got into your home it can cause a problem. However There wasn't a single home that I'm aware of in Thousand Oaks that actually had water in it. Now, because the homes are built at a higher level, but the roads are not, and that's that's part of the problem out there in Thousand Oaks as far as flooding. So getting emergency vehicles and stuff.

3:16:45So good point, but do you think adding additional impervious surface to Thousand Oaks might actually cause Plotting to get into homes.

3:16:57Now when you're saying adding additional impervious uh I don't think that when you're looking at areas like uh that are governed by HOAs and and uh CDDs, that they would allow those uh additional um, in this case, um dwellings to be built uh just

3:17:21Okay, well I gotta stop you there because we don't this is a zoning regulation. We we have no way of knowing whether H O A's or C D D's are more restrictive.

3:17:30understand

3:17:31you can't develop a regulation based on the floor. And then I'm gonna

3:17:33go back to to the whole flooding, you know, issue. Uh as you mentioned that you wouldn't be concerned if uh if a dirt road would uh you know, because you live out in the rural area. Well I can tell you that most of these dirt private roads that that are out there, there are a lot out in like the separate hills out there in the rural areas that are flooded. Um that folks can't be able to do that. move back and forth through their homes because of the their own. Yeah, I wanna be clear,

3:18:00I when I said I was okay with the dirt road, if it was a high and dry dirt road, I don't think that's a problem. if it's an area that where it's flooding, that may be a problem.

3:18:11I think he meant is you can see what a dirt road is versus you can't see potential flooding. You c you can see a cell phone tower, but you can't see potential flooding. It's a hidden

3:18:20Yeah,

3:18:20understood. And

3:18:21is what he's doing.

3:18:22I guess I I was just I'm surprised that your department Answered Patrick's question with We're perfectly okay with the entire county having ADUs. I'm just d that if the answer is because you really are and you have a good explanation, I guess they'll live with it. I But that's why I gave Thousand Tokes as the example. And there may be more egregious examples, but If you're telling me that you're perfectly okay with additional ADUs adding being added to Thousand Oaks, I'll accept that answer.

3:18:49I don't I don't believe that we would be saying that the whole county is a is is a candidate for adding ADUs. Now that We don't have that authority to say, yes, we're good with this and no we're not good with this as far as stormwater is concerned, because like you said, it's a hidden it's a hidden issue. As we can all as we all saw over the last year, I mean there's areas that that flooded in this in in the county that never flooded in, you know, over a hundred and some odd years. So

3:19:19we have to we have to take into account that there's one thing he's talking about.

3:19:24Extreme events. Thousand Oak Yeah, Thousand Oakley. Thousand Oaks is a known flood problem. We can get two or three days of rain in summertime and Thousand Oaks' streets are gonna be flooded. and to the easy. And there are areas in the

3:19:37county that we H

3:19:38O that we are aware of. I can think of Holiday Hill in Port Ritchie that floods and is a constant stormwater problem and they don't have any HOA or C D D that would get in the way of them having ADUs over there.

3:19:57So I realize that you're not setting policy. I'm not asking you to set policy. I'm asking you is there a way to 'Cause I think Patrick asked the question because we were hoping that you could identify those areas of the county that are like Thousand Oaks. D not an extreme flooding, you know, you know, extreme hurricane event where, you know, one into a thousand years type of thing. But you get an area like Thousand Oakes, it routinely floods in a heavy rain. So I would thought that stormwater would just know where those areas were. And

3:20:27you could identify them for Patrick. So we could either verbally describe them Or map them or do something so that we could

3:20:35Well we can. That's definitely uh that that's right.

3:20:41Right layer. Yeah, I was wondering if they can put that up on the mapper, right? And basins and special consent. Right. How of how often is the observed flooding map updated?

3:20:51Uh

3:20:54I would I couldn't answer that off the top of my head, sir.

3:20:59I mean under the observed flooding on Pasco mapper, there's only two boxes. It's El Nino of ninety eight and flood of two thousand three.

3:21:06Yeah, I don't think any of like last year's stuff's in there.

3:21:15When

3:21:15you click on observe

3:21:16flooding, there's nothing that pops up in Thousand Oakes.

3:21:20I wouldn't throw up past them that they would be updating these maps especially after last year. So how long that takes, I couldn't tell you.

3:21:42It would sort of be self amending to your point that that every time we updated that map it would become now and then we could restrict them in those areas.

3:21:55Yeah, you don't want to cart blanch deny it, but make it a special exemption if it's

3:21:59in that area. That's what uh that's what ultimately we were looking for, I think we were looking for Is is there some map that we could refer to and say if you're in one of these mapped areas We need to take a little higher look at whether an ADU should be allowed there.

3:22:16There there are maps that can be provided, yes, sir. Uh and based off our current knowledge of what areas flood in in Pasco County. there there are maps that we can create and provide to the planning department uh to you know to have those available for the

3:22:34and as an a as an aside it would be very helpful to include that onto our Pasco map or under the observed flooding part. So Just for the future.

3:22:44Yeah Yes, I would I would definitely agree to that.

3:22:51Okay, well that's helpful. That's helpful.

3:22:58So Patrick, I how difficult would it be? I I realize you need to get this to the board, so Um Is this something you think you could accomplish between now and the time this gets to the board? You had some Language that refers to some map and says if it's if you're in these mapped areas you would need a special exception to get an ADU?

3:23:19I hope so. Uh don't know what the map looks like and who has it and uh hopefully him. Um so uh hopefully we can get a a hand

3:23:28strong maybe.

3:23:29An understanding of what that map is. Um you know, uh if it's taken up half the county, I don't know if that was the direct result. If it's uh covers a small portion of what's flooded recently, I think it's reasonable. Um but the language in theory, you it's very simple language.

3:23:47Yes. The language isn't gonna be a big deal. So um assuming that all works out fine.

3:23:53So are there any other Are are there any language changes since the time of the workshop?

3:24:02A few things. Um I think Mr. Moody you brought up last time about concern about potential condominiums. We added language specifically to avoid condominiums. Good. Um I think let me see.

3:24:16I don't think anything drastic changed since the last time other than that.

3:24:27Right. Um because we any architectural stuff is going to be handled by the MPUD if the MPU MPUD handles architectural design standards, so we're not getting in involved in the architectural stuff.

3:24:37Okay.

3:24:37We removed um Some language about mobility fee stuff. That was really just an FYI stuff and I they can handle that through the mobility fee table, so there's no reason to put it in the code.

3:24:51They will be charged with the mobility with the ADU rate in the mobile mobility fee table. So yes, they will be charged. Some other things we didn't necessarily talk about last time, but we are changing with this. They're generally very minor things where we need to specifically permit ADUs in all of the zoning, the residential zoning districts. So we added that language in all of the uh zoning districts that allow single-family homes. Um we are also, there are some still holdout uh zoning. zoning

3:25:22districts that didn't combine accessory coverage and primary coverage. A lot of most of our zoning districts had in time been changed to combine them. We're just, I think there's two left that we didn't do. We're combining them. So now the coverage is the same for for both the principal and the accessories or the additional accessory structure. Um

3:25:45Hot Patrick H since you're Um amending the zoning districts to allow them as a permitted use. How are you dealing with the MPUDs that there are some MPDs that were expressly allows A to use?

3:25:58Mm-hmm.

3:25:59What about the M P Didn't expressly allow the ADUs, are they gonna be allowed to do them now?

3:26:06If if they are silence, uh our language yes would allow AD use.

3:26:14Um let's see added the appendix definition of an ADU. That's not a big deal. Um and we changed some language about the uh caretaker for uh industrial areas. Um that's primarily it. There's nothing else major I think changed in the language between from what we talked about last time at the Planning Commission and the what you have in front of you.

3:26:38Although again we we talked about a few things, so if you think of anything specific that maybe I didn't cover I can try and address anything.

3:26:48I have a question.

3:26:51Properties west of nineteen that in the uh Flood evacuation area, those yes, ADU or no ADU?

3:27:00Okay.

3:27:01That was that was the crux of the discussion we just had basically is.

3:27:07I think we're the I think where we're going with it. I guess what I'm hearing is If it's on whatever map that gets created by stormwater that it wouldn't necessarily be prohibited but it would require a special exception approval. So David, let me ask this question.

3:27:25What about things like hurricane evacuation zones? Like for instance, should they be restricted in say evacuation zone A?

3:27:34Yeah, that was my question.

3:27:40But you're saying but but you could be in Hurricane Evacuation Air Zone and not necessarily be on the flood maps that he's gonna come up with. So Are you is the concern about just evacuation like your ability that we're adding population to an area that may need to evacuate?

3:27:55Right. That's the highest level evacuation

3:27:57zone.

3:28:00I'll give you my personal opinion. We've approved a number of rezoning in hurricane evacuation zones where we're adding density to those areas The theory is they do pay this hurricane mitigation fee to help mm create shelter capacity. And they do pay an additional fee to help with the cost of hurricane evacuation routes. But we You know, I think that's a good idea. We have not I guess my point is if we're willing to allow an M P U D or Euclidean

3:28:30rezoning to add density to a hurricane evacuation area and it's not a known flood area I'm not sure why we necessarily need to restrict ADUs in those areas. Okay. I don't think there any I don't think the ADU is any worse than what we probably allow, is my point.

3:28:44And I'm good. I think there should be some guidance. given to The poor gentleman in the back that's gonna have to go back and talk to his people about a map. Definitely. We're not talking about Storm surge flooding from a hurricane. We're talking about routine pesky drainage neighborhoods. Th these are the ones that flood when we get, you know, two inches of rain in an afternoon

3:29:15thunderstorm, not the ones that flood because we got

3:29:19A hundred year storm. I agree with you. I d I that was not my Mike, I recognize that yes there could be somebody at risk when you get the hundred year hurricane, but We hadn't had a hurricane hit us in what, how many years before it exactly? It's been a long time. So but a place like Thousand Oaks. A place like Thousand Oaks, as you said, it's it's still going. It's flooding even when we don't have hurricanes. Right. So that's my those are the areas I'm concerned about.

3:29:46I just want to make sure that w if they try to develop a map then that's why I asked the question, that they don't all of a com sudden come in and say, okay, everything west of nineteen can't have an A D U

3:29:57Right. What I was right. My concern was. I mean you all may have that concern. That wasn't mine.

3:30:04Yeah.

3:30:06I I don't know that we should necessarily prohibit B A D Us based on a Once every hundred year hurricane event. I would agree with you.

3:30:16These are the ones, the regular run of the mill.

3:30:19I'm fairly confident that the thousand notes is you can't design even design

3:30:23for forty days and forty nights.

3:30:27I just wanted to add on one thing. So if going through that Western nineteen flood zone area, if you were allowed to EDU, would it need to be elevated? Because does a new home need to be elevated in the flood zone? Because then and then you'd have a nineteen seventies home that's on grade. And you'd have an ADU that's twelve feet up. Just a question, you know, to

3:30:49think about whatever our flood regulations are when they're

3:30:52building a

3:30:52new structure.

3:30:56Right. You are going up in the air.

3:30:58Right. Yes. And just to think about that with compatibility and how that would look. Just just button.

3:31:09Right.

3:31:11But

3:31:11if you ask if you ask FEMA, they're gonna if you ask FEMA, they're gonna say at least that ADU is not at risk.

3:31:18And you've got trailers out up on

3:31:20the treehouse. And you'll say it's a place for the people in the house to evacuate you. Yeah. So just go to the ADU.

3:31:29Patrick, where do we land on on density calculations as far as an ADU? I mean my my example is if somebody builds an ADU, is that all of a sudden two dwelling units?

3:31:39No, they're exempt from the comprehensive plan requirements or the comprehensive plan density requirements or restrictions. So an accessory dwelling unit is is not counting towards or against MSU.

3:31:54of the compliant amendment that staff processed, it's not being counted for purposes of comp plan and zoning density.

3:32:01Okay, so we already took care of that in the Complant amendment.

3:32:03Right.

3:32:09Only one ADU per parcel. That's correct.

3:32:12Okay. An ADU is an ADU, not a D U. It's it's a different thing. Yeah, I was

3:32:18just I was I was reading all the zoning categories, I saw those densities and I'm like, Wait a second.

3:32:23It's accessory to

3:32:23another primary structure. Right. But it it is it is functioning as an independent. Living unit. Like it's gonna have you c Patrick can put up the condition those the definition, but it's got its own kitchen and it's uh it's not just a bedroom, just to work clear. It's it's an independent unit that somebody can live in and

3:32:46Never have to go to the main primary structure of the rest of it. But for purposes of density it's has it's

3:32:51got a different definition than a normal dwelling unit.

3:32:54The the the issue that we have and we talked about this last time is that if it counted toward density You're gonna start seeing To legitimize these, you're gonna see a bunch of rezoning and compliant amendments just to get ADUs, which is what we were trying to avoid. Right.

3:33:11Those are even more egregious than a special exception. Yeah. I think we had a case recently where we basically were doing a compliment amendment

3:33:23Yeah, one

3:33:23unit. Yeah.

3:33:24I don't know if you all remember that. Yeah.

3:33:28Mm-hmm. Any other questions? This is a public hearing so I don't know if any of these folks want to speak to it.

3:33:38Okay. Uh if there are no other questions of Patrick then uh For anybody who's still here with us, uh does anybody like to comment or have have any questions?

3:33:51I take that as a no.

3:33:56I'll move approval.

3:33:59Was that with the recommended change is that with the recommended change to deal with the stormwater situation?

3:34:05Yes. Okay.

3:34:07I'll second. To clarify. Motion second. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Most carriers. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Patrick.

3:34:23Turn left.

3:34:26Or should we give a motion to adjourn? A