Live Local Act multifamily on commercial sites

1:20:19Okay, that's our last item. Um now we'll go to ordinary business. Um Mr. Wateman?

1:20:26Thank you, Chair.

1:20:28You got two minutes.

1:20:30Two items. So I have to do that.

1:20:35Some gold steins on deck here. Dave Goldseeds on deck. So we have two

1:20:41new Live Local sites. That have come to life in Pasco. And I want to show you on a map. And we'll start it. You

1:20:50see all of them.

1:20:51They're both on commercially zoned sites. And it's a perfect time to bring this up because we're gonna Pasco's gonna lead the charge on this conversation in the Tri-County Commission meeting. And we're moving into our legislative session. So this site here. Yeah. at Curly Road And State Road 54. So if you're coming south on Curly Curly to 54, it's on the west side. uh of the road here. and live it's

1:21:21twenty five acres. On the right side. Uh on the right side, thank you. Yeah. Chair Oakley. It's on the the right side of the road as you're coming south. is twenty five acres and the proposals in for some three hundred plus units. This site has been designated for commercial And when you look at the traffic flow on this stretch of fifty four, it's already a bit clunky. is completely inappropriate. And I I'm just vehemently opposed to this. I know we're handcuffed in what we can do. And then the second

1:21:51sight that's that's come to life is at the corner at the inner s at Old Pasco Road. and uh overpass along I seventy five, primetime commercial, which could potentially would be fantastic light industri a light industrial site, but we're unfortunately not gonna get there. This side. Uh it's a t it's a Clark Hobby move work to get this zone to commercial, but it's an attorney out of Tampa

1:22:21who owns that that primetime corner there.

1:22:24I think it's in the name of Adrian Phillips and it's owned by Ron Noble, I believe, is their representative.

1:22:30And so I learned about these last week. And it was kind of the the this was What pushed me over the edge with this? But this bill. These two these two sites. You know, these aren't partners in our plan. We plan a long time and we have good actors who want to put multifamily in that go through the process and proper planning and make investment. In this live local group that comes in. They're not good community partners. It's an abomination of what

1:23:00they're trying to do. It's killing our jobs. It's killing this bill is killing Pasco County jobs. The Live Local Bill is not healthy for our community. And especially when they're going after properties like the two we've just shown. And so David Golstein and I went through this fire drill exercise and we got you know, with stakeholders, you know, and talking with them of of how can we figure this thing out without you know, hurting the people who are following the rules, playing

1:23:31by the rules. And the news wasn't good of kind of when you hit that nuclear button. And I'll let David Goldstein explain that portion of it in in his lawyer lawyer way. Um So

1:23:46I guess the question is do you want to hit the nuclear button? I mean,

1:23:51the nuclear button is the is the M word, it's moratorium.

1:23:54But but explain why. We don't want to do that because it's not right to do to the folks who are playing by the rules. But this is we're literally stuck in a corner And we there is one option on the table which is an unhealthy option.

1:24:08The Lib Local Act basically requires that you Bypass zoning and land use. And that's your problem. So the really the only thing that you can control under the Lib Local Act as land development regulations. The Live Local Act also says that these projects get the benefit of whatever the multifamily regulations are countywide. So unless you go in and amend your multifamily regulations countywide to address These kind of projects You're kinda stuck. Um Yeah you could Legally

1:24:39do a moratorium, at least I believe you can, legally do a moratorium while you develop those land development regulations, similar to what you did for Mini warehouse um and maybe some other Uses. Um that could be done. But the problem with that is that you are potentially affecting other projects that did play by the rules of the commissioner Weightman's point where they went through the proper

1:25:04and they just need to get their site plans approved. Yeah, it's I can't think of a good way to distinguish those projects. Because you have to go in and amend your land development regulations that apply to all multifamily. So Now you probably could exempt projects that are not w what that we call multifamily like but aren't really multifamily like

1:25:29I think we're probably the only ones in the state that consider that to be a multifamily product. I don't think the state considers plateton homes to be multifamily. You probably could exempt those. You might be able to exempt vertical mixed use, but if you're talking about standard multifamily development. it would be very difficult for us to distinguish those standard multifamily projects from Live Local Projects.

1:25:50Okay, so you're saying like we did the apartment moratorium uh in Commissioner Moore's district, we could

1:26:00Do a boundary of Moratorium again?

1:26:04But it would it would likely have to be countywide.

1:26:07Well you don't know where these are going to pop up. And I had great conversation with Ms. Wilhite from the stakeholder side. This is the right-of-way. This is So troublesome. Because you got these Bad ac I'll call them bad actors. that come in and hurt people who've strategically made their investment, taken time to go through the process, do proper planning. I mean we're about to spend a pile of money widening Old Pasco Road, finally, And in that

1:26:37plan to widen that road and just north of it, schools and everything else, Is not that was planned to be a commercial hub or potential industrial hub, job creating right there on that brand new interchange. But instead it's potentially thirty three acres.

1:26:54Vertical multifamily, not mixed up.

1:26:56Off the tax rolls as well.

1:26:57Yes, forty

1:26:58percent discount for thirty plus years. They they're they would be eligible for the tax exemption. And we

1:27:02can't charge can we charge mobility fees to help widen the road and all that?

1:27:09We've talked each of you individually about changing our impact fee regulations to that we are not incentivizing live local projects.

1:27:19But the bottom line, I mean this may be the worst example, this particular slide, because there was actually a sub area policy imposed by the Board There shall not be residential uses on this site.

1:27:30And is that that can't be our way out?

1:27:33The problem is it's in the Com plan. And the legislature came in and said, You ignore the comp plan, you ignore zoning. This is why when the new ones come in we have them the the landowner agree to restrict the property. But this was before we did that. This is this we we zoned this property for commercial office, light industrial, and hotel. Before Lib Local occurred and that's what we thought would occur here.

1:27:57So how many parcels do we have that are at risk like this? And do we need to look at the go back and do something to those?

1:28:07I mean theory. go in and change the zoning of them. What would you change it to is the problem.

1:28:21I I

1:28:22mean what else what

1:28:22else

1:28:23are we going to do?

1:28:28Because Lib only applies to Commercial, industrial And mixed use. So I think but

1:28:36Whatever we change it to, we would let the landowner know. I don't know if this is good to say. Um let the landowner know if you want to come back and do something that we want, we would put that restriction on you voluntarily that you can't do that.

1:28:50That's what

1:28:51that's yeah, that's the

1:28:52what you're doing. Well that is that better than this?

1:28:56So the county attorney is correct. The problem is that when you change C two to office, they're going to argue that you've taken away their involuntarily taken away their right to commercial. Yep.

1:29:05Are you you talking about the landowner?

1:29:07Yes.

1:29:07Well I'm telling you to tell that we will tell them Come back in and we will approve it with cond with conditions that it can't be a live local.

1:29:15Like ideally

1:29:16Why not?

1:29:16This would

1:29:17be fantastic

1:29:17light industrial right here. This would be

1:29:19honestly fantastic. It'd be easier for me to defend a moratorium than what you're talking about. I'm just being honest. But

1:29:24how all how long can we have a moratorium for?

1:29:26You can't have a moratorium for more than a year.

1:29:30Oh, and that gives us time for the legislature to fix their own.

1:29:33They start January.

1:29:35To be clear, the moratorium's purpose would be to develop regulations applicable to multifamily projects. Oh. Okay. you could do a moratorium for that purpose. That was the main reason you did a moratorium for many warehouse was to develop regulations applicable to so For example, you might want to impose setback requirements on these projects. You may want to impose additional landscaping requirements. You may want to impose additional architectural requirements. If you recall, you all directed staff to do regulations on build the rent. which

1:30:05hasn't been done yet. So you could use that time to develop those regulations. So There's a way to defend a moratorium to develop regulations applicable to this project. This is why I started the question with a question though, which is I don't know if you want to exercise that quote nuclear option because it's going to affect projects that are not live local projects.

1:30:26And it's important here. So this is our side. So it affects all of them. So this is we're here in the county's more nuclear side. And there's a lot of business and investment that Let's see. made their way through the process that I don't want to see negatively impact. That's when talking to stakeholders. Is is very important. And if I'd invite Ms. Wuhite if she has any comments to share, you don't have to, I'm not putting you on the spot. But both sides of this argument are are very are are valid, like this

1:30:57particular site right here talking with Mr. Hobby, trying to loosely negotiate with this landowner to not do live local. and essentially came back with Live locals what it's gonna be. And that just that that is not a that is what pushed me over. That is not that is horrible. And then over at Curly and 54, that whole congested area was going in literally across the street.

1:31:23This is worse. This is one of our most valuable corners in the county. I

1:31:26agree.

1:31:26I d and I hope the legislators like what they did.

1:31:29Yeah.

1:31:30But I don't know you really shouldn't put it on the bad actors of people out there. The they're doing what the law allows and that and sh and I I'm sorry. That's a bad law. For us. Does that

1:31:44does that? type of live local does that bring a lot of money from when they sell it like that? Is it because there's no Taxing the future on it so they get more money when they're buying it.

1:31:56I'm my understanding I mean I believe they're trying to sell it because there's a market for multifamily. Right. They do have to restrict it to one hundred and twenty percent of

1:32:07Which is high.

1:32:12That's basically just market. I mean I we have county employees that cannot afford a hundred and twenty percent of AMI. So that this it's not like it it's low income housing. This is almost

1:32:24gonna solve that issue of the public. We still have to

1:32:27provide the services. We can't figure out how to budget for police and fire and the services that they're gonna provide. And I have the data here of what essentially, you know, what multifamily the amount of calls that come out of a multifamily since twenty twenty. And at least ones we can plan for, we can plan for for p for sheriff's deputies and and fire stations and and uh fire personnel. But these things they just pop up. Here we are and it's not not in the plan. And they're dangerous for us, for our county. Anyway,

1:32:57Miss Wilhite, thank you. So

1:33:00Mr. Chair, just a second. Barbara Will Height, 6327 Grand Boulevard, Newport Ridge, Florida, 34652. You know, I've been doing this all my life. Um conversation about a big am moratorium kept me up all night. Um it is a nuclear option and I would ask you to explore all different options. I spent time on the phone with Mr Goldstein going through the law and What would you have to do to effectuate a moratorium that would impact the local projects? And is a moratorium

1:33:31on any construction plan submittal for any project properly approved and entitled? That's a huge M and it's probably an N because it's a nuclear M N M. Um I'd ask you to explore other options. Like what?

1:33:48Suggest some. Suggest some. Well I'd be happy to. I've I've had a few hours um of uh of discussion um but certainly could continue to uh have those discussions. But I can tell you that the only way you can effectuate a moratorium is by stopping everybody's projects, projects that are pending, they need site plan approval to close, all of those stop. Um and so you would you'd really be throwing out uh all the

1:34:15So this is their business, you know.

1:34:17So we have talked to you individually about one development. A carrot approach, which is Modifying our impact fee incentives so that they don't apply to these Lib Local projects and so they reward the good actors and effectively penalize the bad actors. But That's only a carrot, okay. That's not a stick. So I don't have a good stick to offer you because the legislature was so

1:34:44Over abroad and the way they did this law, that it's very difficult for me to come up with a good stick. to penalize just these projects without Affecting other projects. I'm open to suggestions. I'm happy to if anybody wants to give me something I can use, a magic bullet, I'm open to hearing any suggestions. But

1:35:06I mean industry round table. I mean I uh the the the the folks who are playing by the rules for the same you know, same type of product.

1:35:17And say, hey, we've got to talk about this. And it's important that we talk about this since Pasco's going to be discussing this. When's our meeting? November? next month real real soon that we're on the same page understanding can show these real life Challenges and how Just detrimental to what our our our our view and our destiny is in the envisioned twenty fifty plan of growth, especially in the Wesley Chapel and this whole corridor right here. This is such a Awesome opportunity in this fifty four

1:35:48Old Pasco Road, Curley Road corridor, to have Really something great built and then it get eaten up by a discounted residential But we can't It's it's hard 'cause I I do not want to hurt the folks that have made the investment and are moving forward and have done it the right way. But it's important that we know

1:36:11Our only there's there's one way out and it's a horrible way out, and that's the corner that all local That's the position all local governments are put in. And that's wrong. And so if we can help Hillsboro understand and Pinellus understand, that gives us a stronger voice to go to Tap North Florida, I think. and say, please amend this bill. This is not Not the same thing. Well,

1:36:35this is a great example to show them of the unintended bad consequences. And I am very curious to know if we have any other very important corners like this that are at jeopardy, because I think we need to be proactive on those four corners.

1:36:50On those corners. You know, on the east side of this, we're having all children's hospitals coming. On the east side on the

1:36:57spider property. So I don't get every single the problem is these don't go through the zoning process so that I don't see every single one that comes out. I'm not

1:37:03saying that is applying. I'm saying I want to get to 'em and get to those landowners or whatever before they apply.

1:37:10Well I this so this is an example of one where it we did talk to them before they applied. I want to be clear. Talked to

1:37:15who? The landowner

1:37:16or the the landowner.

1:37:18Yeah.

1:37:18Okay. We talked to them before they applied for anything. I tried to dissuade them. I believe Mr. Pitos tried to dissuade them. Commissioner Weightman tried to dissuade them dissuade them. He talked to Clark Hobby, who I think tried to dissuade them. Every one of them every one of them when we asked them they they always said, We're invoking live local. We're invoking live local.

1:37:39Even in the cellar.

1:37:40To blunt force object. Wham.

1:37:42Who's who's the seller?

1:37:45It's it's I believe the landowner's Adrian Phillips, but it I The representative is Ron Noble. I don't know who the actual owner is. Mr. Hobby may know if he's still here. No, No he's not. Ey left. But the person that I spoke to was Ron Noble.

1:38:03And Ron Noble is the attorney representing the seller?

1:38:05I believe so. And I believe David Freeman is the principal representing the b potential buyer who wants to develop. Multifamily.

1:38:13Do we and we don't know who that is? is?

1:38:16I know who Mr. Freeman is.

1:38:20I believe Mr. Freeman is isn't it? That he's

1:38:23representing that developer.

1:38:24I think he is the developer.

1:38:28David Freeman, he's developed other projects in Pasco County. I don't know.

1:38:33Yeah.

1:38:36That's the little hammer.

1:38:38Well I mean it's

1:38:40not bottom of the pile. So Commissioner Starkey. Five years for a permit. To your point

1:38:46He's he

1:38:47he he's a com he's doing what the law allows is the problem.

1:38:52I know.

1:38:53So so I can so we can change the incentives that we give to make sure they're not able to take advantage of them.

1:38:59Well that's step one.

1:39:00But I don't It's the stick part that I have a hard time with and like I said, if somebody's got an idea I'm open to it.

1:39:07Okay and here's another one. Um If you don't like that last one. Yeah, no. Didn't like that last one. I was only joking. Um, Mr. Steinsteiner said we paid an awful lot of money for the right of way.

1:39:20Yes.

1:39:21When we buy right away. Can we de can we deed restrict it to not go And to live local?

1:39:28we bought the right-of-way. The right-of-way is ours now.

1:39:31I know, but I'm just saying in the future. In the future, is that just another little layer of protection we can have?

1:39:38When we bought this right away, it was prior to Live Local.

1:39:40I know that, but I'm saying

1:39:41that.

1:39:50Yes, but it's not you have to understand the future projects aren't an issue anyway, because if they're going through the zoning or land use process, Commissioner Weightman asked every single one of them did you agree to

1:40:01Is there anywhere that we are buying land to widen a road?

1:40:05I am sure there are areas where buying land to buy to widen a road.

1:40:09I am suggesting that we add a clause in there. That it can't be used for Lib Local. It's just another little

1:40:15The problem is when you're in the amendment domain process, that will only drive the price cost of your acquisition up. Yeah. You can you can negotiate that as part of the sale, but it will but it will increase your costs of purchasing

1:40:29right now. What are we going to lose at a 40% discount for the next thirty plus years on top of the expense of providing services to them? Well

1:40:36just don't buy the road.

1:40:37What juice is worth the squeeze? Is it a little bit up front or the long term? Or

1:40:41forget it, they're not getting a widened road.

1:40:43Yeah. We we have to. Old Pasco has to

1:40:45be a little bit more. No, I mean I mean Oh yeah,

1:40:47that's that's gonna happen. I'm

1:40:48saying in other places. I mean that

1:40:50what are we gonna do at the intersection of Curly Road in fifty four with three hundred and eighty units on that corner now? It's already a can when you're going eastbound and you're trying to turn left to get on Curly and go north back home wherever folks are going. It's a cluster. Yeah it is. In and curly in and of itself is a mess. And then you know, fifty four in that stretch is is a is a bit of a mess too. We have

1:41:16there's another road

1:41:17that would actually

1:41:18take some of that traffic away from that.

1:41:19Yeah, but it was never planned for another three hundred and eighty units at two and a half people per unit. Uh it's not that whole intersection is just ripe for just being a c a cluster right there. And that's it's It's just appalling. And and when you go and talk to the folks who who are doing this and it's it's this is what we're doing. So I share this that we all have an understanding on the same page and that There's really one option, and it's a it's a very uncomfortable option, and it's and Tallahassee's

1:41:50put local governments in this situation. And it's it's unfortunate. Yeah.

1:41:56Let's look at this and maybe next meeting, see if we can't bring something.

1:42:03big meeting with all the county commissioners. Oh we

1:42:05do, yeah.

1:42:06And this has got to be on the agenda for our presentation.

1:42:10Yeah.

1:42:10And this is such a prime example. Uh

1:42:16W what no county wants. No county in the state of Florida wants this.

1:42:25I agree with David the the multifamily moratorium county wide is not only the nuclear option, but that's probably the most defensible option moving forward. But you can do lesser things. and based on the example here Um we might be able to revitalize the Old commercial node. Concept. Um

1:42:56and create a moratorium on nodes of the major roadways for multifamily if we're trying to encourage other things in those corridors.

1:43:13you'd be able to describe it to finite property Um it wouldn't cover the entire county, but it would be those critical areas that Uh-huh. You're describing that as a as a thought. Right.

1:43:31Okay. Yeah, but how quickly could we do that to defend

1:43:36This say this parcel for example, 'cause you don't know when these are gonna come in. Same there's sporadic and there's no Pattern.

1:43:46So I think it would take our planning department to map out all of those areas. I don't know I'd defer to Carrier Brad as to how long that would take them to Map out those affected areas.

1:43:58I mean we could get started on something like that and probably have to report back. I don't know what size of a task that is, but if if the board sees this as a priority, we can

1:44:10We need to get started on it sooner than later and Um

1:44:15When I when I think of the investment that our citizens made At the same time. I-75 overpass area that we paid for that overpass. We're paying for the widening of Old Pasco Road to have this kind of user come in is just a kick in the gut.

1:44:37It's what put me it it put me

1:44:41They pushed me.

1:44:46And others. I was just appalled.

1:44:49I think we all need to be paying attention to it and we're going to be able to do Next meeting if we come up some Real great ideas, let's bring it forward so rather than continue talking about it. We don't have that answer yet, so Did you have something else?

1:45:02No, thank you, uh board members. I just wanted to share this and get our get thinking and collectively try to figure this out on our side and with the stakeholders and we be prepared when we go in our tri county commission meeting in the upcoming legislative session. That we all c be aligned on the

1:45:22So I appreciate your time. Okay.

1:45:24Mr. Mr. Bradford, do you have something for the board today?

1:45:31I believe Commissioner Bradford had to drop off.

1:45:35Okay. Oh there he is. Okay, go ahead.

1:45:44I have nothing today. Okay, Gary. Thank you.

1:45:49Yes.

1:45:51Um