PC2 PDD 20CU13 Gulf Landings Association conditional use additional parking
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Machine transcription of 34m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 99% of 155 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Item PC two is PDD 20 CU13 in the name of Gulf Landings Association. It's a conditional use for additional parking for a civic club in an R4 high-density residential district. It's located at the northwest corner of the intersection of Barefoot Court and Seagull Drive, and the recommendation is approval with conditions as included in your packet. You may want to call for public comment so that if there's any public comment I could do a full presentation on the item. Okay,
the applicant present.
Yes.
Anyone here to object? Is there anyone here to object? Okay. Do you is there any reason you'd like to have it polled or you want to leave on a consent?
Um I just want I was wondering if there was someone here to provide any type of public comment on the item. Um if there isn't
and
I have a question, Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Okay. You want to question the applicant or the
Did you want me to do a full presentation and then have the applicant come up or
that's that would be up to the applicant, whatever whatever they'd like to do. do.
Yeah.
All right. So this item is PDD 20 C U 13. It's for additional parking for a civic club in an R4 district for the for the Golf Landings Association, located in Southwest County, Pasco County on the northwest corner of Barefoot, Court and Seagull Drive. It's consists of vacant plated lot 10 of the Gulf Harbor Sea Forest Unit 2 subdivision.
This is just showing you that uh Chapter 500 zoning standards section 517 R4 high density residential districts specifically calls out additional parking for civic clubs as a potential conditional use. This is just showing you the surrounding zoning to the north, to the east, and to the west. It's R4. It's all part of the Gulf Harbors subdivision. To the east is uh Barefoot Court, and across the street is the Gulf Landings Recreation Center, and I'll show you that
a little bit more closely when we look at the aerial and the surrounding area. Oh and uh to the south is um Seagull and uh I apologize it's going the wrong direction. To the south it's uh Seagull Drive and also the landings at Seaforest Departments. Surrounding land uses to the north, east and west are Res 6 and to the south is Res 24, which is consistent with apartments in that higher density. This
is the um Showing the access to the property, Seagull Drive and Barefoot Court. As you can see, and I'll I'll show you in something that's a larger representation. This is the existing parking for the tennis courts and for the clubhouse, which is up here due north of the parcel. And this will be for additional parking for when there are events at the clubhouse. The applicant has provided information, which is in the narrative,
that basically states that the clubhouse has capacity for approximately 120 folks. And currently the parking that you can see here is only for approximately 25 cars. So apparently there th there's a a gap in the need for parking. Here's a closer view of the subject parcel, the subject request, the existing parking, the tennis courts, and the clubhouse. And
there's also a boat launch area here.
This is the existing um parcel that uh where the request is being um uh that you're looking at today. And this is a view just showing um the proximity to the existing. Parking, so it's just across the street.
This is a concept plan that was uh submitted by the applicant. Uh in one of the conditions as we move forward on this item, you'll see that they have to um submit a preliminary site plan for review and approval by the county. Uh there was a pre-application meeting held um mid-December of last year, approximately a year ago. I think it was the 17th, so it's yeah, mil a year and two days ago. We are recommending approval with conditions. The conditions, condition number one is very standard.
It's just basically limited to the site plan shown on the application. Condition number two prohibits overnight parking. Except when there's an oper when the vehicle in operation is unsafe due to driver impairment, in which case a vehicle shall be removed by no later than 12 noon the following day. The idea behind this condition is that if someone is attending a wedding or reception or whatever at the clubhouse, and perhaps they have a little bit too much to drink or whatever, that
that person is responsible by calling a ride show. or asking a friend to take that person home, in which case that vehicle may stay overnight and that person has to take the vehicle by twelve noon the following day. Following condition and storage of vehicles, including passenger vehicles, recreational vehicles, and commercial vehicles, shall be prohibited. This conditional use shall not authorize a use of the subject site for a boat, commercial, or recreational vehicle storage lot. Following condition, as I stated, they have to submit a preliminary
site plan for review and approval prior to development of the property. Following condition is your regular condition regarding the potential for revocation of conditional you the conditional use if there's a violation of the conditions of approval. And the last condition is your standard condition asking that the applicant acknowledge the conditions. And again, um staff is recommending approval with conditions as stated.
Okay, I noticed there's a already a parking area on there.
There is. Uh it's actually in your finding of fact number, let's see, let me go back to the agenda. Finding of fact number eight, on November 27, 2018, the owner applicant was issued a Pasco County Ordnance Violation Warning Notice for site development without first obtaining a site development permit. And we're here to rectify that issue. At some point in time, and and that's actually stated in the pre-application meeting notes, and I'm sure the applicant can speak to this. Is that they
were not exactly sure what they wanted to use this lot for. So there were some different ideas and um The final decision, I suppose they have to speak to a board and to members, uh, was to turn it into a a park uh overflow parking area. uh because of the gap in parking that they had across the street.
Okay, so is it foreseen that that parking design is fine or
Um the only there were uh comments in the pre-application meeting notes and they were told the type of buffers that they have to provide. Um they were also told that if they keep the uh from our stormwater folks, and of course this is going to be handled at the at the site plan, um, but by our from our stormwater folks they were told that they have to uh uh retrain uh retain and treat water due to the fact that they put in impervious gravel on
the property. Um if they return the lot to a grass parking, they don't have to do that. So there's some things that they have to think about.
Right. Any questions, Michael?
So uh yes, thank you. Uh Nanise, my question is um in the finding of facts number one it says um
That overflow parking for the association tennis courts pool and boat launch area. Yes. Um is there anticipation of having uh Trucks and trailers there for the boat launch area?
That was not what was presented in the application, but we can ask the applicant that question.
I didn't even know there was a boat launch over there.
Okay. Would you like to come up and uh respond to that question?
Can you state your name and address
please? Yes. Um my name is Jim DiFulio. I represent uh Gulf Landings Association, Inc. My address is 201 East Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, suite 715. Um
Let me answer that question. The way this is envisioned is that it would be temporary parking. I I guess there may be a possibility. that there would be a uh uh a a a vehicle with a trailer on it parked in there temporarily if it was necessary for overflow parking purposes. I presume that might be the case. Um I notice in the uh conditions that
the references to storage of vehicles. So obviously we're not going to have a situation where there's going to be a long term uh or overnight parking of any vehicle there. Um so I can't give the the uh commission right now an absolute assurance that there wouldn't be some kind of a boat or trailer may be parked in there for a morning or afternoon.
So
I will
say So let me just walk through that a little bit, uh which is a concern that um it says in the conditions no overnight parking uh unless um someone needs to be driven home. But so my concern would be Someone goes out fishing and you know, they're gonna be out all night. And they'll have a vehicle and a trailer there. Are there hours in which that boat launch is allowed to be used or is it open all the time?
I I have to turn to my client for that. Do you wanna do you wanna ad can may he address this? He's the president of the easement. Do you have to
come up and state your name and a an address, please? is Nicholas Mudd. You have to speak into the microphone. I'm sorry, if you'd speak into the microphone, because you've got to record it.
Oh, beg beg your pardon. My name is Nicholas Mudry, M U D R Y. I live at [address removed]. Uh I am a resident of the community and I'm on the board uh of directors for golf landings. Із possiле да Uh to answer your question, is it possible that that scenario might happen? There is a possibility. Um the boat launch is open. Uh
for members. You ha it's a secure boat launch. You have to have a swipe card to use it.
Okay.
I mean do you have that that issue now
At the clubhouse people parking overnight and stuff like that?
Occasionally, sir, you will see a party. Uh there's five hundred and seventy eight residents in our community, sir. One fifth of them are landlocked. not waterfront community. There were over four hundred residents are. So Uh that is why the developer w has the boat launched there for people who lived in condominiums and the townhouses that are not on the water that have direct access behind their
residential unit. Uh it does happen sometimes that uh either they'll go out early, three o'clock in the morning to go fishing, or somebody goes in and they'll take jet skis out to the recreation facilities afforded by Pasco County. And yes, y you will occasionally see Uh I'd say a a boat and a trailer there. We do have a control issue. We do require our uh residents
are required to have an identification sticker On the trailer. that identifies that is actually a resident within the community, sir. Could it possibly happen? Yes, it could.
So I guess you know a concern I have is probably not that big of a concern, but if I was a neighbor right there. Um
It's one thing I think the a car just a sit overnight. It's another thing people coming and accessing A boat. you know, a trailer and stuff in the middle of the night with lights and m and m moving about and all that. So there was maybe a condition that that would not be allowed. their, you know, as an activity it might alleviate a problem in the future.
Could you bring up the slide? Of
Could could you bring up a slide, please?
Okay, that one. Can I w you don't mind me walking over there? No, no. No, no, no. Okay. This allows you to point. The on the right hand side is the parking lot. The top round button. Oops, I hear you.
You have to take a course to operate that.
Uh right there on the right hand side there's the twenty-three parking lots occurring today, and that is within the meets and bounds of Gulf Landing's property completely. They do use that currently today. for evening or early morning assessment as uh access to it. So we could ask the residents and and I think most of residents would be acceptable that if you're before six o'clock or eight o'clock you use the
parking lot on the right. after hours, uh during the day, the one on the left.
Yeah. Maybe just a sign on on this proposed. lot, you know, s saying no overnight
Correct.
Boat parking, uh trailer parking or anything of of that nature.
Correct.
just concerned for the neighbor there to have lights and stuff like that coming in in the middle of the night.
I I uh to the left there there's two residential units and that's very understandable. You would not want that to happen or to hear the vehicle or a truck. But on the right hand side we could we could put out that if you were using it for early morning or late evening, that you would have to use the parking lot on the right. And not the one on the left. And because the way that was developed. Gulf Landings is not centrally located. It's over sixty three hundred feet long.
Yeah.
And i it's because everybody you know, it's developed on the waterfront. But y that could be easily we could easily enforce that with a sign saying, uh early morning parking you have to use the one on the right.
Okay, thank you. Okay, Mike.
Yep. All right.
With regard to who the applicant is, the applicant is a homeowners association. So and it owns this lot. So because it's a homeowners association it can't develop the lot, it can't build a house on it. It's not within its corporate powers. So it has to th the the the the use it it it has as a matter of corporate law is relatively limited. and using this as a as a temporary uh uh parking
lot is is is really a a reasonable use uh for a a homeowners association really. Otherwise it probably has no use at
all. Did do you do they also own the adjoining lot or no? No. All right. Well thank you very much. Thank you. Any other questions?
Some input there for us? Ha ha ha.
Good afternoon. My name is Al Shonert and I uh live at uh [address removed] and uh I belong to the uh the Golf uh Landings Association. Before I get started, I want to wish you all a Merry Christmas. That's number one. So what I'm here for is the following. Something just came up here as far as the boat and so forth. Our community is a lot smaller than than Golf Harbor. And Gulf Harbors has many more boats than we do, many more residents, and all they do is they drop their boat
off and they leave. There is no place for them to park up park their their vehicle or their RV. They have to do whatever they have to do offsite. So, why I'm here is basically to let you know I do not want history to repeat itself. When I heard what this gentleman had to say, there's gonna occasional this or occasional RV, trust me, they don't live there. Every board member on the Golf Landings Association does not live. If you were if you would you'd be so kind at easy to bring
that back up. That road, and let me just show you, that's a bad picture, if you don't mind, if I can approach. This is basically a picture of the lot currently today.
And so what is g what what what's gonna mount to is what happened, let me just repeat say I don't want history to repeat itself.
Let me just ask you to hold up until you get in front of that microphone.
Yes. When I say I don't want history to repeat itself. 2018 the lot was was was bought by the Homeowners Association and then from there we went through this very same routine. It's going to be used for overflow parking. Well again the the the members of the Homeowners Association they don't live there. They don't see there. I live there. I live right on that road that you see there. I live about three houses out on the water. So I I guarantee you when you go through there on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
you see RVs parked there, trailers parked there, commercial trucks parked there. They have no our homeowner association has no control over it because we have a great uh uh manager that takes care of our property, but she's gone Friday afternoon, she's gone Saturday, Sunday, and if we have a holiday Monday, we're gone. She has no control. of it. She does a great job with no control of it. The homeowner uh uh folks on the uh on the board they don't live there so they don't see it. We have a hundred homes there, guys, uh ladies,
and uh we we see this every day. We drive through this, you know, five times a day. So what's going to happen is the following. Somebody just said occasional this and occasional that. We don't want no occasionals over there. If I'm all for, basically, or we are all for, I could see uh speak for the rest of the residents. If you want to do overflow parking, great. If you have a wedding or whatever the case may be, fine. You have overflow parking and that's it. If you want to do it overnight parking, great. If somebody had a little bit too much to drink or
whatever have you, you know, I can see that. But it's not gonna happen. I guarantee you, unless you have signs there saying, hey, there is no overnight parking, there is no trailer, no RVs, there's no trucks or anything else there, because we don't want our property value to go down. Okay? It is I can't if you can imagine driving down ninety nineteen you see some of these uh trailer parks and everything else there, it just looks just absurd, basically. And this is exactly what's gonna happen here. History will repeat itself. The only way we
could do this is having signs there, and if they don't obey the signs and and it we could um make conditions there saying if it's not obeyed, we would we we take the permit out and go back to plan uh you know the the you know back But now on one of these narratives there, it indicates, check this here, it says parcel would be sorted. You think about for a second, if that's sold, okay, and you use that for a parking lot, as as as it's expected to be used for, that's gonna look absolutely terrible
when the mud is all kicked up, the grass is off, and it's just driving through there, and if there's no cars there parked at all. All you're gonna see is a big bud pile there. Does that make sense? And so um I hope I make my point clear there. It's it's just not gonna it's not gonna be a very pretty site. Again, all I'm asking if I I'm all for it, I'm sure all the residents on our island there, over a hundred homes. We don't mind it being a parking lot for over you know overflow parking, for weddings and things like that. But we do not want it to turn into anything.
Not even an occasional RV, a boat, or whatever have you. And as far as the boats and everything else, they could drop it off and leave. Again, we're smaller than Gulf Harbor. Okay. All I'm asking you to do, if you approve this, please put strong conditions. Say if you if you break these conditions, basically speaking, we're going to take this request out and go back to leave anything as R4P. Yeah.
Okay, very good. Um I just want to make sure you understand that we don't approve how they develop it. We we approve whether they can develop it. And uh So into a parking lot. So as far as whether they put grass on it or stones on it or whatever, that's a different department. department. So uh but I understand that we can control that. We can control who parks on it.
Correct. What what I'm what I all I'm asking you to do if fine if if cars are gonna be parked there for over parking, two thumbs up on that. But I'm just gonna suggest to you all it's not gonna be enforceable. I I guarantee to you on a three day weekend or four day weekend there will be R Vs there, there will be the boats there because nobody pays attention to the signs and they just do it. It already it it it's the same thing happened this time last year. And so and and that's when the uh planning board uh down uh came over, they saw it and they actually uh closed the
whole thing down. That's what I don't want to happen. That's what we don't want to happen.
Well also we have to be careful not to infringe on their rights too because Using that logic. you know, we might not be able to have any parking downtown because somebody might park incorrectly. So uh You know, you can't you can't use it on that basis. We can restrict the use and it can be that that use can be enforced. But we can't just blanketly say you can't use it. So uh I mean that's my opinion. We'll get the feeling of the board here in a
I guess
I guess what I
want to I want to say is I just want to
make sure we we've given you your three minutes, so we wanna I don't want to drag this out too far.
Okay. I just wanted to force it to the right-of-way.
I think we understand what your what your concern is. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Do you want to have a
would you like to rebut anything or may
I say a word or two?
Sure.
Yeah, the the whole issue of enforcement, uh obviously it's a conditional use permit that's subject to revocation. So if the association is uh delinquent in its abilities to in enforce the conditions, uh it can the conditional use can be terminated. Um I think too, you know, there's going to be a process by which the site plan has to be submitted. and uh approved. And I think in that site plan I think various m mediation Um
uh improvements can be made. There can be buffers and fences and that sort of thing. to uh to reduce whatever negative effect might occur. I think we have to be very careful though. about fine tuning the parking. Why do I say that? I c I can just imagine having uh, for example, a situation where on a Saturday there's a wedding taking place. and somebody pulls up to launch their boat, but there's no parking. in the existing parking lot. and
they need to possibly launch their boat and park their trailer i on this particular lot. How are we to manage that? There has to be some reasonableness and ability.
Well, there would be a sign that says no trailer parking. That's how you manage it.
Yeah.
And
but does that serve does that serve the purpose? See which we're trying to accomplish is overflow parking. So if uh a trailer happens to be that which is causing the parking to overflow, can't park there, we've lost the whole perp we've lost the purpose of this. Part of this is a safety problem. Uh as as um as the county has indicated The the capacity of the clubhouse is 120
persons. When there's a wedding and there's more than than the twenty-two vehicles or twenty-five vehicles that need to park. They park on the street. And that's a problem. Um So I I think we have to make sure that there's enough flexibility in this so that the purpose of this uh occasional use uh can be can be met can be met fully. Um Let's see. Um my client
wanted me to to emphasize that the last speaker um uh lives uh approximately two intersections away from this particular lot and is uh between 750 and a thousand feet away. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Alright, were there any questions? From the applicant or anyone else? From the county. Uh uh any comments?
The one comment I would have is I think Mr. Cox brought it up is the parking of the boat trailers. I think what they indicated then the very beginning was a process where you wanted to have overflow parking. And you kept using examples, weddings or events that you were held in at the clubhouse. And therefore you needed this additional parking. for automobiles. And that I can understand. But the other gentleman, from what I understood, is his concern is not the automobiles It's
the boat. What are the boat's trailers that are the issue? Yeah. Your presentation in the beginning, that is the director And I d I I apologize, I didn't catch your name. You indicated that the trailer The boat trailers is an occasional event. And the way the c other individual the resident out there indicated there was more than a i an occasional event. So therefore, it's kinda like how
do we split this thing down the middle to get what you really want, which is overflow parking. For automobiles, for events that are held at the clubhouse. And how do you eliminate The concern is some residents out there It's the boat trailers.
Uh I think the only way you could do that is by just no parking boat trailers except from that one location you already identified for the boat near the boat ramp area. That that would be a good thing. Unless you unless I'm misunderstanding something here. Uh
Mike? Roberto? Any comments?
I mean the only comment I I would just say is that I mean this is a this is a waterfront community, so boat trailers is gonna be part of of living in a waterfront community. I I my concern I guess is just the it's the
Middle of the night. movement of boat trailers and disturbing the people that live right there and all that. Um I personally wouldn't have an issue with a truck and trailer being parked there, but I wouldn't want to see it there overnight. Yeah. So I don't know if they can designate certain spots in other areas specifically for boat trailer. Parking. Yeah, that may be a way to alleviate the
overall concern. um or just simply just put a sign require in the conditions a signage saying that, you know, there's either no boat trailer parking on this particular piece of property or Yeah. There needs to be signage put into the conditions saying no overnight parking period.
It says that no overnight parking or overnight parking is prohibited. So it says that. But
You know, a motorist is not gonna know that unless it says it on the property.
Okay. Berta, do you have anything? May I answer your question, sir? I don't think we have a question, sir. Oh, okay. Yeah, thank you though. Um, did you have a question, Michael? No.
All right. Well if there are no questions, does somebody have a motion? Uh uh I'll
move for approval.
So I'll move for approval providing that language is added Um to condition two to for the requirement of signage stating the prohibition to overnight parking.
A second. I'll second that.
I think we have a second. Oh, three thirty. Okay, so we're sleeping.
Yeah. Right. Okay. So we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion of the motion? But you're leaving in the language that says if they're impaired
they can put you you're leaving that language, right?
Yeah, I I'm not sure how you put that on a sign, but you know, um
Well I d just wanted me cacause you guys are saying
slightly different things. Yeah, yeah. No, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I'll make sure we make it clear. Are you talking about Motor homes as well.
Well two applies to all vehicles the way I read it. Okay.
Yes.
The only exception is the driver impaired vehicle. Okay.
All right. And what you're saying, Michael, is that we need to just make sure there's signage on the property. Indicating that
Yeah, I yeah, I mean think of your input signage you need to put up there there's no parking Overnight, period. So If somebody's getting driven home, they need to move their car before they do that. Alright, yeah, that's what I mean. How else yeah? State that do you have any recommendations, Denise? How to word that?
Well what I was thinking is that to not To not commingle things, I was thinking that perhaps that signage condition should be a standalone condition and not adding it to condition two. Um Of course, willing to listen to the Planning Commission ab obviously. I was just thinking of adding maybe a condition number three, a new condition three. Stating that the owner applicant shall install signage on the subject parcel stating an open quotation o overnight parking is prohibited, clo close quotation.
I think that works.
Presumably whoever's running the event. Could but them know. I mean y you don't have to put that on the sign. Right, that's my point.
Yeah. Yeah.
Whoever's running the event can say, Hey, you don't have to move no, you could leave it there if you're drunk. Mm. Yeah. That would be a hard thing if they're not assigned. I don't think you want to put it on his line, but you want to encourage that behavior.
I I do want I do want to say that going out to the um The actual location, there are numerous signs on the other parcel. So I'm sure that there probably won't be a problem with putting signs on this parcel. There's signs everywhere on trees, on posts, on stating that you've got to have a sticker to park here and that you have to do this and you can't do that, and you can't bring in skates, and there's just signage everywhere. So I don't think this putting up the Yeah.
All right. So So you're going to add it as
conduct.
You want to make the
motion?
Yep.
Standalone.
Is that your motion? Yes.
Okay. Okay, and that's a second, Roberto. A second. Okay. All right. So is there any further discussion on the motion?
Mr Mr. Chairman M just one observation. This is a concept plan, Denise, that's that's proposed for the Oh
it's yes, very conceptual. Yes. They have to do a preliminary site plan, so they'll have to go through the full process.
Okay. And they're it's showing two gates on the on the uh property as is already. So uh just his observation is it the it it appears to be the applicant's um it's ability to restrict access to that that lot too so
Yes. Okay.
Okay. Anything any uh sir. No Okay. So we had a motion and a second. Any uh further discussion? All in favor of the motion? Aye. Opposed? Motion carry.