Roads rehabilitation MSTU millage rate

1:11:38All right. The Roads Rehabilitation MSTU fund has a recommended tax levy of zero point five one eight four mills. This is the first year that this millage is proposed to be levied, so there is no calculated rolled back rate. This millage rate will generate twenty-four point eight million in property tax revenue to maintain the county's roadwork network. I would ask the board to accept public comment and then vote on the roads rehabilitation MSTU millage rate and associated budget. Yeah.

1:12:05Okay, does anyone uh wish to speak to this item on the MSDU?

1:12:10Yep. Oh yeah, no one's signed up in advance.

1:12:13No one signed up. Anyone in the audience wish to speak to the PAVIM MSDU? Uh

1:12:23Okay. If you have a question, you know Jack, do you want to speak? I'm waiting to listen.

1:12:32Okay. Mr. Waiton?

1:12:35Any discussion? Thank you, Chairman. I'm willing to support the level of MSTU for this MSTU. But to do that it's gotta come to a commensurate cut to the general Fine Mills. So I'm assuming that box and match will go down at the second meeting. But I'm willing to support some level of funding for the road paving MSTU. It's necessary. Uh it's an actually

1:13:05a piece of the business the county should be in, in my opinion, paving and maintenance our roads. And so I'm Uh Excited to hear what folks have to say and where we land on this.

1:13:20Well we've asked there's no one to speak to this, so Um

1:13:27Mm-hmm.

1:13:31Again, my name is Janine Duffy, [address removed]. I'm a little confused. Um we've been paying taxes for years, but our roads are severely neglected. Um I'm not sure where it's getting paid from. Is it my property taxes? Is it the gas tax that's supposed to help the roads? Is it the millage, the new millage rate? I'm kind of getting confused how many time we have to pay for roads that aren't being fixed. I mean a sinkhole opened up in holiday. We

1:14:01have severe flooding. Uh you made it worse by adding a sidewalk to Grand Boulevard. Um I drive through a pool in our afternoon showers now. It hasn't wasn't like that years ago. Was not. Actually, it wasn't even like that last year. All this flooding is current. So I'm just curious to n to know what exactly is paying for our roads and our infrastructure. Is it the impact fee? Is it our property taxes? Is it the gas tax? Is it the millage

1:14:32rate? I just I'm trying to grasp and understand what exactly is fixing our roads because nothing is.

1:14:38I'll give you an answer. The MSTU for this is 0.5184 mils. That's fifty one. Dollars and eighty four cent. For every hundred thousand dollars of value of a homesteaded home.

1:14:55Okay.

1:14:56Okay. So Mean value of homes throughout the county are Roughly $160,000.

1:15:05If

1:15:05you have less than it is. But that number equates to about eighty or eighty-five dollars. to go toward paving of roads. for the entire county. Not just a like a PVAS or all. We're getting rid of Pas 'cause it costs your neighbors fighting and see each other and there's other things. This does away with PVAS. But this uh like This rate will get us roads being paved a

1:15:35lot quicker than we have before because there'll be no bickering between communities and if everybody says 51% say they don't want to pay and and so they they vote it down then that road stays like it is in bad condition or whatever. until you have to wait a year after that to get your road paved. That's been a bad system and we've been in it for a long, long time.

1:16:01So you're blam blaming the old system on the neglect, is that is that what I'm

1:16:06gathering?

1:16:09I'm not blaming it on anyone. In fact

1:16:11No, I'm saying the old system, your old taxing system, you're

1:16:14breaking that up. The old system of paying for Road was really unfair because the people that if you were less than 50% of the people on that road. and say you voted 49% of you warrant the road paves. And the group against you didn't want to pay. and it was 51%, then it didn't get paved and had to sit there for a year. Well that And and and and it's done that year after year after year on a lot of properties and we

1:16:44got a lot of bad roads throughout the county for it. This also includes Rose. that can be paved when they're they're even dirt that could be paved. if they fit in that order and I I think within two or three years we'll have a lot of roads that have been a long time waiting to get paved.

1:17:05Agreed.

1:17:05Now I understand we have people that are seniors and on fixed income and this is money. I understand this is money. What I pay I I meant to look at my sheet. It's on tax your tax sheet now. Um On mine that's probably four hundred or five hundred dollars that I'd pay every year. One time a year, every year, to get all of our roads paved.

1:17:32Okay, so that's the only way our roads get paved.

1:17:37So there's no penny for Pasco funds that go towards it, there's no money from impact fee that goes towards it.

1:17:45I'm I'm just r trying to get clarification.

1:17:48Sure, sure. So in and it's there's let it would be first, let me just back up as to the types of roads. Yeah. There's really two types of roads. They're local roads. This would be your roads that you live on, and then there would be what we call arterial or collection. Roads, notwithstanding state roads. We'll take state roads like 54 or 52 out of this are funded by the state. We collect gas taxes in the county that funds our public works department. Gas taxes really only cover about two-thirds of the cost of our public works department. That is a revenue source that has been flat to declining

1:18:19for years as cars become more efficient than electric cars, but I we won't go there. The additional one-third Of the public works budget comes from what's called a um a uh a TIF or a tax increment financing, which is levied across the whole county. And anyways, it's a long way of just saying it's a it's a dedicated funding source on new taxes that that come in that is put into public works to fund paving. Now, how do we fund paving? We we fund we fund it from this this TIFF, which really only amounts to A

1:18:50a few million dollars a year, maybe somewhere between two to two to four million dollars a year, more or less. Okay. But we because we have a a special assessment vehicle, this is the PVAS that the chairman was speaking about, uh we don't use it to fund local roads. We use it to fund things like if we were to pave Little Road, for example, or or another another main road that everyone would use in your neighborhood. The road that you Live on under the current system is a special assessment, in which case the residents would have to

1:19:20petition the board to tax them in order to fix the roads. So there is no general revenue that goes into fixing local roads. It

1:19:27is

1:19:28up to you as a citizen to decide when you've had enough on your road and you can appeal to the board, and there's a whole special assessment process. So the commissioner has spoken and the board, the board is Recognize it's it pits neighbor against neighbor neighbor and unfortunately by the time the road requires to be repaired. Um I can tell you I'm a professional engineer. Um it's like we talk about maintenance, the road's too far gone, and it's probably six times more to fix it. So folks are levying with a higher assessment. What the road tax does is it is collected

1:19:58taxes for all roads in the county.

1:20:02As well as local roads, and includes actually a a large component of it is maintenance of roads, to extend the useful life of the roads. That is really the purpose of the tax, is to extend the life of the existing roads and provide a dedicated funding soul for that, and make repairs, and of course do away with the special unwind the special assessment process. And that's a lot instead of

1:20:24essentially what it is So to just to clarify, our taxes in the past, none of that was allocated to our

1:20:31you heard us uh one of the first uh funds or votes that we did might have been the second one, was um the transportation what's it called? The the the transportation trust fund where that would be the silo of money that we would because when we collect money it all goes into s Silos in government and our transportation silo is zero funded through your general through your property ad valorem property tax. It's zero funded. But

1:21:01we are gonna fund it through this MSTU.

1:21:04But so you know

1:21:05so you're not paying any taxes. So when

1:21:06somebody says to you, What am I paying my property taxes for if I'm not getting my roads fixed? They need to be clearly informed that their property tax. never went to fix it. Never went to fix it. It never did. It

1:21:16never

1:21:16didn't make it.

1:21:17It goes back in history. And history had it. Over here was a lot of groves and pastures and things like that, but New Port Richey all were Drawing leaps and bounds and building a lot of roads over there with a The property owners over on this side, mostly farmers, agriculture people, didn't want to afford or couldn't afford to pay for those roads being built on the other side of the county.

1:21:39Right.

1:21:40So that stayed in history until now. And we've all realized I've been here eight years and I've I hate a P VAS. I mean it it's just the worst system ever.

1:21:52And it doesn't work accurate. Well please

1:21:54understand that most people, the general public, believe that their property taxes go into paying for their roads.

1:22:00And we know that. Yeah,

1:22:01we know

1:22:02we know that but that's not true. So

1:22:06maybe

1:22:06get the information

1:22:07out there about our

1:22:10When you do a PVAS, a lot of times that cost to you would be seven thousand, eight thousand dollars that you can pay over ten years. But with the new system If If you're paying say your house is on the lower scale and it was eighty five dollars a year, that's all you'd pay every year.

1:22:29Right, I understand.

1:22:29But on the Pas alls would be in good shape for ten years that part you couldn't pay up front. I don't know. Would would

1:22:36just before I end, uh take away one thing. When we are over by the nineteen corridor, find ourselves being surrounded by lots of development that have brand new roads, nice sidewalks, right and all of that. Please understand the frustration of the people that have lived here for decades. And

1:22:52I agree with you. We have 'em over here. This is my district on the east side. Okay. I've got some of the worst roads we've ever seen, but just

1:23:04New system. A lady called me or saw me in a restaurant here the other day and says, well my when would my road be paved on this new paving system? And I said, well, I don't know. She was asking about Pasadena Road, just right out here. and a question and I call our people. And it's set up to be paved if this goes through. Be that road is set up to be paved. In twenty five, which starts October one.

1:23:33What was that? I haven't seen the list. Ha ha

1:23:37You have to ask you to I'll let you know who to talk to. But the fact of it is I was shocked. It not only repaves the old part of pavement, part of that road is dirt. And it paves that too. It brings it all up. Right. Which it'll take a little time to get everybody, but the fact of it is by starting it you get in a good situation in the future. And it it's just better for everybody. So

1:24:07I hope you could take a drive over to holiday during a rainstorm. Yeah.

1:24:12That's our history.

1:24:13And the other good thing that this is gonna do, which we did not do in the past, is we're also gonna fix the sidewalks. Which the in holiday

1:24:21problem because the flooding is so severe. You're adding more concrete and it's making it worse. So please consider

1:24:28the sidewalks that are there that are all smashed up. That

1:24:32need

1:24:32to be fixed. We need drainage with the sidewalk.

1:24:35Yeah. Thank you for asking the questions.

1:24:37Thank you for answering them. Christie's never on record. You tapped on my question a little bit. How are these projects going to be prioritized? And you said the one in Pasadena would be twenty twenty five. Lake Page Estates hasn't had any paving done since the early nineties with a road paving assessment and we've lost some of our roads.

1:24:58Yeah, I'm fixing to give you a guy that is gonna come up here and tell you the truth about all this. because it's scientific. See, some roads we have, so you know, some roads are not as bad as other roads. So those roads that we can actually do a chip seal. That road can lengthen that's life by doing the chipsill, it'll lengthen it out five years and improve that road. Other roads that are really in bad shape are going to be more expensive than that to be paid.

1:25:28So do they get put on the back burner? Because they'll

1:25:31cost more? They're all they're all looked at electronic. I'm gonna let Bramford come forward. And he will uh describe to you or Just well. So mine. But it's very important. So

1:25:46Brantford I assistant county administrator. So we've talked about having the scientific uh network. That means we've tested all the roads in Pasco uh and we've used our pavement management system to rank all those roads. So what we have is roads that it's going to be cost effective to fix in the first year or the second year, we go ahead and schedule those to be done. So we try to do that as objectively as possible. So

1:26:17we are being fair to everybody.

1:26:19Right. And and they're they're balanced out in five districts, five commissioner districts. We all get some of our roads done. It's gonna take time, but I'm gonna tell you with this new system, it's gonna be much better than anything you've seen in the county as far as paving the roads that everybody's asking, why can't I get my road paved? Even dirt roads will be a part of that system.

1:26:43Mr. Chairman M. And part of the benefit too is when you have to do all the paperwork, all the time and money to go do your petitions and all the stuff, you probably add about thirty percent to the cost of the road as well. Now that all goes away, it's just simply collected and allocated.

1:26:57So um back to Commissioner Weightman's question, and I don't know if you're ready to answer it, because I think we found a way to lower that MSTU by taking some of the money from the library. Library and paying off the debt. So since he wants a number possibly now, are we able to throw out a number where we can lower that? Lower that a little bit.

1:27:19What was the six what was the six million dollar number of things?

1:27:22Chairman for for clarification, Mike, why don't we go with with this conversation first that we spoke about? So my my question to County Attorney Administrator Finance folks.

1:27:38Does the road paving MSTU need a unanimous vote tonight to pass? And does it need a unanimous vote to pass at our second and final public hearing? It has to have two consecutive five O votes.

1:27:56That is correct. It would require a unanimous vote to establish some millage, the whether it's the recommended millage or some other number. I disagree with the administrator,

1:28:05but Mr. Kennedy is

1:28:07the same thing.

1:28:17doesn't have to pass a unanimous vote. At your ad but you have to adopt it by an unanimous vote unless you heard something different from revenue. I'll let uh

1:28:27Mr Rosola

1:28:28who spoke

1:28:29with Department of

1:28:29Revenue. The follow up question to that Well let's I haven't had the conversation with revenue that OMB has had.

1:28:38There's two forms that we fill out to fill out that ask us for the number of votes and that's MNP which is maximum millage for this hearing and then the MM which is the maximum millage for the final hearing. Both of those say five votes are required.

1:28:57I don't believe that's what the statute says, but if that's the that's the standard that revenue is going to hire hold you to

1:29:05That's that's gotta be confirmed to me somehow because my agreement to doing this is the 7.57 mils that we previously voted on for the general fund. I want to see a commensurate cut to that. So we're going to have to open up the general fund. Males. And vote on it his second time. So do we go through all that tonight? and potentially have two late nights, or can we go through 'Cause we'll stay late, y'all know it. Yeah,

1:29:36or can we do it all in Newport Ritchie at one time?

1:29:42Uh so our recommendation would be to kinda hold here and then we can do math before the final hearing um in a less rushed fashion and more accurate and we can work through um

1:29:55So the So hearing you and not hearing confidence out of our county attorney Doesn't give me confidence. That we're following the right-of-way.

1:30:06I think what the county attorney is saying, and Jeff, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, is he saying tonight Only, you know, he doesn't his his interpretation of the statute is is a unanimous vote is not required tonight. However, a unanimous vote is required.

1:30:22And general fun

1:30:22general fund bills can be open back up and discussed.

1:30:25And then you can also at that yes, sir, we would go through the same same discussion on the general operating millage and if the board wanted to adopt that the vote thresholds are different, of course, for the general operating millage. But Nevertheless that would be a discussion that the board would have.

1:30:39So Commissioner, tonight you're gonna have the ceiling set that you can't increase, but for the final you can still come down on the seventeenth.

1:30:51That's what I was trying to say, i is I I believe that

1:30:58It's the final vote that matters and if if you didn't vote for it on the final vote that would kill it. It has to be unanimous. So it doesn't I would I would recommend staying at the millage that we've advertised and you've always got the SR the power to turn it the power to turn it down at the final hearing.

1:31:20My non legal opinion, I agree with County Attorney, but Department of Revenue did give us a different answer.

1:31:29Mr. Chairman Mariano back to um I would rather see it come lowering the MSGU down. And this doesn't have to happen until the next meeting, but I'd rather lower the MS M SGU down Believe in the millage where it's at. For the right same reason I told you, ninety one percent of the county's gonna pay for these roads. Remember a lot of the money that's coming from this is paying for arterials too, which everybody in the cities uses, but no one's gonna pay for it, just the county people. And I think it should be shared with everybody as much as possible.

1:31:59Well no matter what the number

1:32:03The the fund will be funded where before there was nothing. So no matter what we decide on,

1:32:09but

1:32:09there wasn't feedback. We're moving forward. But the But there

1:32:11was a feedback.

1:32:12The Pivos is dangerous because you you the county can lean people's homes and take the property from them. That that system is just bad. Horrible. It's just a bad system.

1:32:22Yeah. But we're moving forward, so we'll we'll get there. So everybody understands we we move this number down. A certain number. then you have to realize and the public has to realize that you won't be able to pave as much each year And that's sad. back up sometime, but If you lower it, it takes longer to get to your roots.

1:32:47We already kind of pushed it out so it wouldn't be high. We pushed it out.

1:32:52Yeah, we already stretched it out with with this lower number. So

1:32:57we have not made a decision yet, right, Chair, on how we're gonna fund the uh the remaining PVOS loans. That hasn't been decided yet. So I mean there's still as Mike Caballo say it's in the sausage making. Uh that we're not there yet, right? So you know

1:33:14But do do you want to set this mileage lower than the 51 point or excuse me point five one eight four? Do you want to set that lower to go or do you want them to come back with a number to

1:33:32Where you feel comfortable. I thought I heard Jack saying he would like to see it reduced. Is that right?

1:33:39But I'm comfortable leaving it to where it

1:33:40is

1:33:40now just to go through and let's let's see what staff brings it back to us and we can dissect it next week.

1:33:44I

1:33:44agree. And do it in

1:33:45Dan.

1:33:46Yeah. Let him bring back options, no pressure. Yeah.

1:33:50You never know how tells us. It's upset.

1:33:58Maybe it's right here. Sure.

1:34:01Mr. Starkey has steaks back here. So I'm good for a

1:34:04while. It's not cooked, but you're welcome to it if you get over 100%.

1:34:09Just one

1:34:10second.

1:34:13All right, is there a motion by the board to adopt a millage rate of zero point five one eight four mils for the roads rehabilitation MSTU?

1:34:30And it takes five votes.

1:34:33Yeah, and we're we pledge to cut it when we find out what that number is. How many agreements

1:34:38we're doing that?

1:34:39Yeah.

1:34:40I'll make a motion.

1:34:41County Attorney, are you sure?

1:34:45Sure.

1:34:47Are you advising us the right way that we're not boxing ourselves in the corners that way we can still do some work before we get it?

1:34:55Just like all my other attorney friends, they told me not to act like an attorney. So I don't.

1:35:00I am I am confident that if you levy i if you move ahead the the point five one eight four mills you have complete authority at your next hearing to lower that or eliminate it.

1:35:15And the general operating mills of seven point

1:35:18five. And y you're at the same you're at the same You've got that same discussion on the general millage at your next hearing as well.

1:35:27See attorneys. Attorneys are human. Trust but verify. It's kind of the way. All right, so I'll second Commissioner Yeager's motion.

1:35:36Okay. I've got a motion and a second. We leave it as it is. We're going to relook at it on September seventeenth. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed like sign. It passes five zero. Okay?

1:35:54Uh