PDD 230234 Handcart 20 comp plan amendment to Res 9
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Apr 6, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Apr 6, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 55m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 83% of 208 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
All right. Uh Amy Heiler with Long Range Planning. The item before you today is PDD 23 0234. It's a small scale comprehensive plan amendment in the name of CPAS twenty two nineteen, hand cart twenty. Um I would just like to advise and put on record that we received two ex parte forms earlier today that I did submit to the clerks from uh Moody and Pulslitz. That was Pine Slides. Sorry. Thank you.
Two syllables, easy. Got it. Amy, before you start, I did have a conversation with the applicant as well.
Okay, thank you.
So if I uh I
don't believe I received those ex parte. If an ex parte wasn't submitted, I will submit. Was that submitted to the community? To
be clear, a verbal disclosure of your ex party is fine. Okay. You don't need to have it doesn't need to be in writing. If you disclose in the record that you have the ex-party communication, that's official.
Thank you.
Couldn't know.
Okay, so the property is located in the central market area. And it is also located in the unentitled area village of Pasadena Hills.
The petitioner is requesting a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment to change the future land use designation from Res 1 residential 1 dwelling unit per gross acre to res 9 residential 9 dwelling units per gross acre to allow for the development of 144 townhomes, which is equivalent to approximately 7.2 dwelling units per gross acre. Since the county does not have a future land use Classification between Res 6 and Res 9. The applicant is requesting an amendment to Res 9 to allow for this level of density.
The location is east of Hancart Road with access to Jesse Daniels Drive. An amendment to their resolution is an amendment of future land use of an amendment to the future land use map 2-15 and sheet 15. And there is an accompanying rezoning petition to MPUD. This was was heard at the Village of Pasadena Hills Planning and Policy Committee on March sixteenth, and we heard the MPD at that point in time.
Here is a visual representation of the existing feature land use. And the visual representation of what resine would look like.
This is the existing zoning with the proposed MPD.
And so here is a loc uh visual of figure pH seven, which is your village location map. As you can see this is located, currently located in the unentitled area of VOPH.
This is figure PH6, which is the Pasadena Hills 2065 future land use map. And as you can see it is currently located as or identified as a Res One within this area.
And this is figure PH2, which is the Pasadena Hills Land Use Vision Plan. And as you can see here, this is located in, it has portions of the site located within the neighborhood general and the neighborhood um I always get them mixed up. Neighborhood General and Neighborhood Where is it? Edge, thank you. Neighborhood edge.
Mm-hmm.
And this is figure PH four. Um this is the twenty sixty-five uh future transportation map. And as you can see this area is located along Hankart Road, which is envisioned to be a four lane roadway.
These are the policies that the proposed amendment are consistent with.
And we recommend that the local planning agency find the proposed amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners. And I would be happy to answer any questions if necessary.
Thank you. Amy, can I ask you a question? Yes. Um B B O. P. H. I get easily confused and get kinda lost in the minutia of B O P H One of your slides, your one of your early slides said that this area was part of unentitled VOPH. What is so what's in what was envisioned when VOPH was adopted that this was unentitled?
Um so for the unentitled area, and I'm glad you asked that question um because I have the answer for you. Um so with this area we have been using figure pH too to kind of um highlight what that area Is visioned for under the VOPH plan. So even though it is unentitled, meaning it's not as part of the villages being your village cores and where those densities and tensities are generally located, this area, as this picture kind of shows,
is where it's in located in areas village general, village, village, I did it again, village general. Edge. Edge, thank you. And so what's that what that means is these different areas have specific ranges of densities that they're envisioned for. And so those densities range to approximately a res five-ish. And so that's kind of, and I put that detail in this agenda memo. So what that's basically saying is
even though What is our future land use, which is our Pasco County Comprehensive Plan, is a Res 1. This area is envisioned more for approximately a Res 5, which is why staff is in support of this level of change, because even though on our future land use map it shows as a Res 9, it's technically a Res 7.2. the village Pasadena Hills plan map here, that area is envisioned
s kind of like a res 5, so res 5 to res 7 makes a little bit more sense than a res 1 to a res 9.
Can I also just make one clarification? I'm not sure unentitled is the best word to use. Um
Yeah because Really nothing in V OPH is entitled until it goes through an MPD rezoning. So I think maybe the better word is it's outside of a defined village of V OPH, but even the even the villages themselves aren't really entitled until they go through the rezoning process. So I think I'd rather you think of it that way as opposed to saying it's unentitled.
Special.
And Amy I have a clarification too. So so I know I was thinking that these kind of things would just go to the V O P H policy committee instead of us, but it's But some things come to us. Oh, okay. Because this is the same thing. So if it's comp plan it comes to us,
it still comes to you with the local planning agent, correct? The code is interesting. It it says that they they act as the planning commission, but you are still the LPA. They are not the LPA.
Okay.
So they have not taken over your role as the LPA, which means all comp amendments to the compliance
No. The interesting thing on this one is the rezoning will not look to you. Okay.
Thank you. Okay. Any other questions for Amy?
Thank you.
Okay. Thank you, Amy. And the applicant is present, I say.
Barbara Will Hyatt, [address removed].
Barbara, before you speak, I there was somebody else on the line that was gonna speak at the same time as me. I wanna make sure I didn't cut them. Was that Terry or somebody else that was gonna That was Terry. Terry did you want to add something to what I said?
Uh I was gonna take a similar um statement as what you did to clarify. Uh just to point out too that uh the area question
here. I the density increase sounds like a lot. From one to nine. Um as Amy noted, the V O P H area the figure two there in V O P H indicated an actual density, an actual proposed density of five. So the actual change is from five to seven. And the key thing to keep in mind is that Um this particular area which is which sits between Um Two. Developments
that are in the V OPH boundary but not opted into the development. So it's a narrow n narrow land bridge, you might say. Um
includes intensities. And use or originally included intensities and uses That were contemplated within villages. Uh and so We discussed at the V O P H policy and planning committee Planning and Policy Committee a couple of weeks ago. Um this concept in the in the V O P H Planning and Policy Committee. Uh I'm not sure if Amy mentioned it, but they had voted, if I recall correctly, unanimously in uh for the project.
On on some of those clients.
Yes.
Okay.
So Christy Barrero is doing our presentation. Um She uh knows this plan pretty well. So a lot of the questions that you're asking she's gonna cover in uh her presentation.
All right, great, thank you.
Oh knock it off.
Well
good evening. Uh it's been a long afternoon. So uh I'll run through some
of the things that I'm gonna
Some of the slides more quickly than others because Amy did cover a lot of stuff. So our property is about 20 acres. You can see it on the aerial here. We have Watergrass on the west side. We're adjacent to Hancart. Oak Creek subdivision is to the southwest, and Chapel Creek is to the southeast.
Christy Barrero with Height Design and I have been sworn in. Uh so this is make it's two parcels, two ten acre parcels.
And as Amy stated, we are in the villages of Pasadena Hills boundary. We are outside one of the 13 villages. We are also outside the countryside area, which is the green hatched area. The purpose of the countryside was really to stay with the future land use that was currently there. When we had these meetings in 2007 and eight. The residents that lived along Fort King Road had said, you know, we want to keep the lifestyle. The hills of Pasadena
are on that side. It's in the closed drainage basin. It made more sense to have that area stay as it was and concentrate the density on the west side of the ridge in these 13 village areas. There was also areas in the plan that were known as rural enclaves. Those areas were Uh Lots that we felt at that time were neighborhoods that were on Well and Septic that wouldn't be changed either. So this project or parcel
in particular is not in the countryside, it's not in a rural enclave, it's not in a village. There's only a handful of these. And so you can see by the star here As Amy was saying, the areas in gray are excluded properties. These are properties that were zoned MPUD before Pasadena Hills was approved. And so there's this narrow area of yellow that our property is part of. And the reason why it wasn't included in included
in a village originally is because the villagers are supposed to have high density in the center. and then lower density as you go out. So in this narrow land area it would have been difficult to have that village model in this location.
And this graphic is a little hard to see because the blue and the black are both dark colors, but Hancart Road is shown as a blue road on this plan. That's a four-lane divided road, and it's the only four-lane north-south road in the villages of Hasadena Hills. Curley on the western side is shown in orange. That's going to be a six-lane road at final build-out. And then 301 on the eastern side. east side will also be a six lane road at build out. And again, hand cart is the blue four-lane
road. So we feel that this four-lane road that's going to be 142 feet wide at final build-out with a 12-foot multi-purpose path on one side and an 18-foot multi-purpose path on the other side is going to be heavily traveled, and this type of density, this type of development is appropriate to be conf built along this road.
And so I just wanted to point out these two next to each other. Again, you can see the circles are showing where the villages villages are as well as the you know more rectangular shapes on the second graphic. But I wanted to point out that there are four villages with their centers along Hancart Road going north. These four villages, village C, D, G, and J, are the most intense types of villages in VOPH. They're type 1 and type 2A. So
there's three types of villages: type 1, type 2, and type 3. Type 1 is the most intense and dense. Type 3 is the least. They came back with a modification to make a 2A and a 2B just to make things more difficult. Regardless, type 1 and type 2a are the most intense and dense. And there have been multiple MPUDs approved in these villages that include single-family detached townhomes and apartments all along Hancart Road.
And so to summarize, we're requesting a residential nine future land use designation on 20 acres of property. Uh as David mentioned, you won't see the companion MPUD today. Passian Hills Planning and Policy Committee did hear the comp plan and the MPUD together at the March 15th hearing and they did recommend unanimous approval. Again, this is 7.2 dwelling units per acre, not the full nine. When this goes to the board in May, they will
also hear the comp plan and the zoning together. And so they'll get that full picture that unfortunately you all don't get, but the details of the MPUD plan. And so if they choose to approve the Res 9 future land use, they will also immediately have the option to approve. 144 units, which will cap it at 7.2 units per acre. And again, Surrey State Handcart Road is going to be a four-lane divided highway, not highway, but a four-lane divided
collector road with multi-purpose paths and sidewalks. The type 1 and type 2A villages are very high density, with the majority of those villages having 10 units per acre in the village core and five units per acre in the neighborhood general, of course. Of the villages. BOPH has just now started to get some momentum, and there's a lot of action going on there right now. And it I believe one of the reasons it's taken so long is because there aren't utilities in this area of Pasco
County. This is a unique parcel that there actually is water and sewer adjacent to this property in Hancart Road. So they do have utilities today there as well. And so for all these reasons, we feel like townhomes in residential development is compatible with the other residential development in this project. I don't have a slide to show it, but I just also wanted to let you all know that Village J, the center of it, is going to be where hand carton
overpass intersect in the future when that overpass. Pass gets continued, and there will be non-residential there. And then about two-thirds of a mile south of this site is where Island, Eland, and Hancart intersect, and it will also be where the Zephyrhills bypass comes in. And there is existing about 80 acres of C2 zoned land there today. So there's non-residential within a mile of the property. Going north and south. And that 18 foot multipurpose
trail, golf carts will be able to go on that, kids will be able to ride their bikes. to those uses as well. So it's not even though our 20 acres is just residential, there is mixed use in the surrounding area. And I'm here to answer any questions that you may have.
Christy, do you n do you know offhand how far the utilities go up hand card right now?
Um they go up, I believe, just north of Old Bridge right now. Okay. But uh the That's what I was thinking. Yeah, so not much farther. Okay. Yeah. But that will change very soon.
Yes. That's what I hear.
Okay, any other questions? Mm-hmm.
Right.
I have a that's a little piece I I got a little piece of the the job here. Do you get you know, this comes to you, you don't know normally C V O P H matters because the villages um don't have comp plan change. They have an overlay. So the comp pla underlining comp plan never changed. when VOPH was done. So the cop plan. Map. looked the same the day before V O P H and the day after. What what happened with video page is they put an overlay
And so that overlay only applies, only has for the villages. So when a village comes in, that overlay then goes down on the comp plan. Since we're not in a village, we have to come in and change the comp clam. Res1 has been here for 33 years. I say this a lot because this reminds me of the Res One on the on Ridge Road. It was Res One where we where we were approved, this group approved for apartments. And I have to always come and explain why it is Res One. It's Res One because it was put that way 33 years ago and not updated when
the Comp Plan was redone in 2006. We didn't update we didn't update the comp plan. We did different things. We did employment centers, We did the rural area, northeast rural area. And then a couple years later V OPH came in, but the comp plan again wasn't updated. Just kind of did the overlay on it. So that's why it's res one and that's why you look at it you go res one to res nine what's going on but that's the reason why it just wasn't that change. So we're having to do that. Hopefully when the county
I say this all the time, when they update the comp plan this time, they actually update the land use map. Um for example in the urban service area we have we have uh land uses that aren't consistent with the urban service area. We've got to go in and change those one by one. So I wanted to kind of give you that perspective because you don't get to see um these VOPH matters because the comp plan in the villages they don't need a comp plan amendment. So thank you.
So Barbara, real quick, so I know the VOPH over really kind of overrides the comp plan when it overlays it. Um so what is that comp plan in the rest of uh Pasadena Hills? Is all pretty much all res one elsewhere as well.
Christy probably would know best 'cause she knows this area so well. But there is res a lot there is re it's original. It's whatever it was when it was just agricultural for That's what it was, you know, thirty-three years ago. And so that's what and then Bat Pasadena came in and said, Hey, we're gonna do a plan instead of just going from agricultural to suburban, we want a plan for that. Yeah, I was just
curious.
Very, very unique plan.
Underlying comp plan look like and Yeah,
res ones,
ags, AGRs,
AGRs, AGs and Res Ones Hall of Landscape.
Yeah, so actually there is a lot of aggregation. Agricultural future land use. This project started because there
was
a lot of citrus groves out here and citrus got canker and freeze, and so the farmers got together and said, Okay, what can we do differently? Um there was actually a denial for residential one future land use and it was recommended that instead of one property owner coming in, they get together and come back with a larger plan. And so that's what they did. So Most of it is or was ag and like Barbara said, they don't have to come back because they have this overlay. Right. So yeah, it it w was a very low density area.
So there was one thing the applicant didn't really cover, but um Pasina Hills also has a financial plan, and when you there's ever an increase in density, intensity in Pasina Hills, there's Compland policies that require them to basically invoke the financial plan or opt in the financial plan, and that requires them to pay impact fee but also impact fee surcharges on utilities, parks, schools, Christmas River. familiar with this, um
roads and so the concept was supposed to be a self financed plan for infrastructure and if for some reason those funding sources are insufficient They there's abilities to levy special assessments, there's a special tax increment district for Pasadena Hills. So it's it was developed as a self financed infrastructure plan. So to a certain extent, increases in density in Pasadena Hills are more necessary than in other places because
it's needed to fund the financial plan.
Did I say any of that incorrectly?
So if there's an increase in density outside of Pasadena Hills, even though it's in the same area, then that can affect the infrastructure of Pasadena Hills, but without really
paying into that financial plan. It becomes an issue with us there's a couple places where Zephyrhills and Rodade City are attempting to annex parts of Pasadena Hills, which adversely affects the financial plan in the Pas because they're increasing density in the city, but they're not contributing to the financial plan. So it actually does cause us some issues and we're trying to work through some of those issues on the borders of where Zephyrhills touches Pasco Hills and Dade City touches Pasco Hills.
Okay, is there anyone else here for the applicant? All right. Anyone here anyone here to object or ask questions?
And I believe this is Ms. Gibbs. Yes. And she's been griven eight minutes.
Okay.
Uh so my name is Sue Gibbs. My address is [address removed]. Um I have been sworn in. Um my I have a thirty acre cattle farm immediately to the east of the proposed um hand cart twenty. Um I wanna be brief because I'm starving, um but
As I'm sure you are. I don't know how to be I have a leftover cookie. I don't know how to be brief because I'd like to add, takeaway but also add some of um what I have learned since I've presented my PowerPoint presentation. So if we could have that up, please. Um so I do understand that uh future development funds infrastructure. I I understand that completely. One of my major
concerns is the current lack of of infrastructure now with the development that's already happened. Do I have a PowerPoint? I do? We're bringing it up. And then thank you. Um so this these pictures are taken um looking north, about maybe four hundred feet north of Island on hand cart. Um and and we just we really
have a tremendous roadblock there uh for several hours oops in the afternoon. That's too far. So uh this is this is clearly a problem. In fact, at the meeting of the VOPH committee um earlier in March, the chairman of the committee expressed that he's fully aware of this problem and went so far as to say that in the near future Hancart Road would be, and I quote, an abyss. So they're aware of this. Um And then The
discussion of funding future development was is difficult for me to follow. What I gathered and I realize I may be inaccurate, so and I'm willing to stand corrected, but I was under the impression that this graphic representing the future Handcart Road is actually Oops, sorry, that's too far again. uh starts north of village J. and does
not pertain to the southern portion of Hancart Road. And this is where the construc the um infrastructure issues currently exist. So And that there is no funding I I know it comes from future development, but there's been enough development already. There's still no funding planned for that area of Hancart Road at all. The green lines representing roads funded uh by twenty thirty two. And when this conversation was
happening during the VOPH committee in March, uh somebody And I don't know you folks. I'm I'm sorry, but somebody Here said that uh the road, you know, we were reassured that in the future on a net not yet designated date, but scheduled to be completed by twenty sixty five, and then a gentleman that is on the committee uh rightly commented that the members of the committee will be dead by then. So so I
I don't know when roads are gonna be funded, but twenty sixty five or even 2032 is a long time away for the folks that are already impacted by this by this traffic. Um the there were folks that spoke to the lack of uh ability for the fire trucks to get out of water grass. Somebody mentioned six minutes of fire truck was outside his house. I I I shouldn't say that. An emergency vehicle. Outside his house trying
to get off Old Bridge Road on Hancart, and he was it was just sitting there with the sirens on. Um I is this hearsay? Somebody said that under oath, but I didn't see it. Um anyway, move along.
So uh these thing two items were um approved by the V O P H committee, the P7 speaking to hand cart twenty and then the twenty-three uh Hundred residential dwellings on the west side. And I do realize that what they were actually voting on was whether this fits this conceptualized vision of how the village of Pasadenas should be. Not necessarily whether
it's a good idea right now or whether it's an appropriate or Safe idea right now, but does it fit with the original vision of how this is supposed to turn out? And I'm not I don't see the relevance today of that previous vision given what we have now. Uh State Road 54 has been a multi-year construction parking lot. It so now we have this beautiful road
of Island Boulevard, southern part of Hancart and Old Bridge that a lot of people in Zephyrhills and the surrounding east Pasco County area are using as a direct access to I-75. Um So fast forward to another point. So this is the intersection of Jesse Daniels and Hancart Road as it stands today. Jesse Daniel is just a disced-up dirt path that, as it happens, is
the legal ingress and egress for my property and several other residents to the east. Incidentally, my mailbox. Is on the other side of this little road or this little Jesse Daniels. So every day I have to get my nail in that traffic and if they develop this further. Anyway, um So Jesse Daniels uh We were told originally that Uh There
has to be 600 feet according to the DOT between uh turn lanes or access points on a major road. Cliff Creek Court, which is an egress and ingress for Oak Creek to the southeast is 75 700 feet south. So I was hoping for some kind of a turn lane to allow the residents of these 144 townhomes to get in and out and then Obviously, I have grave
concerns about my ability to get out and go to work once this has been completed. Um Here's a larger view. So, you know, the folks that are to the east of this property are dependent on the juncture of Jesse Daniels and Hancart Road to get out. Now I have spoken to the Bit Developer and uh they are willing to go ahead and and uh make some concessions as far as ingress and egress. I I'm willing to continue
conversation with them. I I would like um confirmation I guess. I'm not sure how that works, but not just verbal assurances. Um So There is also my last concern is that there is a creek that runs north and south. Sorry, it runs north. South. South. The creek runs south across Hancart 20. And it is considered a category one wetlands by
Pasco Maffer's website. And This this road, Jesse Daniels has a bridge, and the creek is typically dry in the summer. In the in the summertime, of course, the creek uh tends to overflow a little bit. So uh the water The water overflows its banks routinely, but in the summer of 2002, I don't know if you remember when this creek overflowed
and and washed out all of the driveways and road connections on Hancart Road south of Jesse Daniel to Island Boulevard. Um this wasn't a tropical storm or a hurricane. It still left the residents, they were unable to access their home. or leave their homes. Folks were kayaking down the road it down the sidewalk. Ditch. So I spoke to Swift Might I've spoken to two different engineers uh regarding these concerns
and they suggested uh that I contact um the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. I spoke to them and they informed me that because it is a multifamily development, it falls under the jurisdiction of Swift MUD. And I was advised if I have any further questions, it may be helpful to reach out to Swift MUD to inquire about potential flood impacts. So this is going around And round. According to
this graphic that was presented at a community meeting uh in December. They're they're going they're going to put a retention pond where the creek is. Now I have been reassured today that the actual creek lies to the east of their proposed prote uh retention pond. Um I know we've been reassured that Any development isn't allowed to increase the water impact to neighboring um communities and and uh
properties by more than one drop or The the Project that was recently mentioned, which is Stone Bridge on Island Boulevard. So when you're thinking high density and then high density and you know this makes sense to have more high density M the m the woods in the back of my property now are wet. It it is already it was always a wetland, but we used to be able to do anything back there. The the cows that we could drive our tractor, we could
we could use the land. It is completely it's so wet now the cows come out with mud up to their knees. You can't access anything. We we can hardly do fence repair because we're basically underwater from the water coming off Oak Creek or uh sorry, Stone Bridge. And this that's not that's not your problem, but it's difficult for me to conceive that this changing of this natural flow of this wetland is going to not impact the folks around it.
That's that's hard for me to I don't take reassurance in words, I guess. So I'm not trying to oppose development. I I want that understood. I just I just want it to be done in a manner that Helps everybody that is that is relevant, I guess. Um I'd like my concerns to be addressed. I'd like the traffic congestion
to be addressed and not made worse by the addition of an additional four 144 homes before any infrastructure is Arranged. Because we can't get to work. Sorry. Thank you for your time and
I appreciate that. Dave. If I say something wrong here, please correct me, but I'm under the impression we're sitting as the LBA as a comprehensive plan. All we get to do is determine whether this is consistent with the comprehensive plan. We don't we don't get I don't think we can apply conditions to a comprehensive plan amendment, can we?
No, directly. I mean there is something Sub-bury policies, but I don't even know if staff is proposing sub-bury policies for this. So um but even those probably would not be appropriate for this level of conditioning. This would typically be dealt with in the MPUD, which you will not see. Right, because this goes to the B O D P O A which And the Board County Commissioner Yeah. But I mean the same staff that we've got. Amy, are you the one processing this MVD? Who
is? Okay, well he's not here but I assume he'll listen to this hearing and um and take into these and I'm sure the applicants take it into these comments to see if these issues can be addressed in the MPD and I'm sure Barbara or Christy will talk about that.
I I hear you and I understand it's just that this isn't the four on the correct venue to address your more sort specific concerns that happens at the next layer of the process.
Yeah, I would say your province is more on question number one. Is this an appropriate land use for this area? You're not gonna be able to do Conditions. Right. No,
but item two is not an option for us.
It is for the other committee you spoke to, but not for this committee. But not for us.
Okay. But number one is
Yes, they d they decide whether this is the appropriate land use for this area of the county.
Okay. C can I ask one quick question? You said you own how many acres of land? Thirty. Immediately as development goes forward, are you gonna continue to raise cattle?
I know it's a hard question.
It
is
a hard question. We've already turned down um two different offers to sell to developers. Um D I I can't answer that, sir. W as we age, you know, it I because that's a lot of work, the maintenance of the fence and everything and my husband's getting older and uh not not indefinitely but certainly for the next several years yes if that answers your question.
The reason I bring it up and I'm sure that some of these folks don't like me to bring it up is my concern has always been what's gonna happen down the road with agricultural products. We've already s seen the export I mean the importation of oranges for instance in this country but Anyway, I know. I say that with overall lesson, which is very few.
I'm I'm equally worried about the wildlife, which is there's no point in talking about that. We're not opposed to change. We're not opposed to progress. We know this is happening. Please understand that. We're just wanting it to happen with some common sense boundaries so that things are addressed ahead of time or in conjunction so that the whole system isn't just bottlenecked and and ineffective or like
the chairman said an abyss So that's that's what I wanted to mention. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you for coming. Is anyone else?
Okay. Saying no one, Barbara?
Yes, I have been taking notes and we did talk um a bit and we're gonna continue talking, for example, on the drainage Jeremy Couch with Tampa Civil is gonna go out and walk the property. I I find that that's really helpful instead of just talking about it from here. So he's gonna go out um with the client, they're gonna walk the property and talk about drainage. Something about that when you're actually on the ground and can talk about it. That's the right way to go. Um 'cause we have time between now and this goes to the board on the ninth of um Of May.
It's hard to believe. We're talking about May already.
I always verbal assurances always become conditions. That's something that I do. Um so I can assure her that the things that we agree to will become conditions. For example, they talked about Hankart and Jesse Daniels when we were outside and the client agreed to put three turn lane to do three turn lanes one excuse me three lanes there one coming into Jesse Daniels a dedicated left and a dedicated right so as they communicate we're we're finding solutions and we'll put those in the M in the MQD. We also are
doing turn lanes Steve will talk traffic but we're doing turn lanes a right turn lane and a left turn lane adding those to hand cart so that our traffic will be out of the travel lanes. Like having turn lines. Um I I appreciate the the issue of change. This plan, VOPH plan was about change. This area's planned to change. It's not gonna stay like it looks today. This is the right land use. This is townhomes on a major
road. It's on hand cart, it's the it's the right how you do density and where you do it. Um Old Bridge and Hancart, there were a bunch of folks here at our other hearings and they actually showed up at the foot from Watergrass and They showed up at the board meeting. They have and you have people here that staff members that know about Oak Bridge and Handcraft, but they're not here because their issues are getting addressed. Um N maybe not to their ultimate satisfaction timing wise, but they're getting addressed.
For example, at Old Bridge and Hancart, um Ben Cat is here. He's studied it and Old Bridge and Hankart will have a signal in the next 90 days. So staff is hearing the residents' concerns. Um they're also looking at overpass, the connection, there's a piece of overpass that's missing. between overpass and hand cart and that's why um cards are using Old Bridge but they're looking at how to expedite that as well. So The residents are being heard and and
yes, um, you know, sometimes it takes time and development, as David said, development is what pays for the infrastructure. There are excluded projects like Watergrass is excluded. They're not part of the financial plan, so they didn't pay the surcharges. Um we have that that goes on as well. I cannot speak to traffic very well, so I think it might be helpful if Steve just gives you a few minutes of of how the OPH plan works. This is an area that county has actually got a financial plan, master roadway
plan, utilities plan. It has the plans um in place. So let me have Steve talk to you and then we can answer any other questions.
All right, thank you.
Steve? Steve Henry Linkson Associates, 5023 West Laurel, and I have been sworn. Um and as David indicated, you know, this is kind of a unique area to the county. It actually developed a financial plan for this uh area. And one of the part of the financial plan is the roadway. And it actually the roadway system within this area has actually has a financial plan to share. How is it financially feasible to build the roadway system that's necessary for this area? And Hancart being one of them, that it is financially feasible
to build it from Island all the way up to Clinton Avenue. And in fact, right now, as David knows, there's a master developer agreement that has gone around with where there are a number of roads that are being built by developers as a part of the development with. Within V OPH. We talk about the DuPri piece, the 2300 acres that you spoke of. You know, they are building north-south roads that will parallel a handcart road. So the reality is what's happening here, unlike other areas in
the county where somebody comes in and develops, they pay their mobility fees, and we hope roads get built. Here they're actually building the roads. So it's a much different area in this part of the county. County than anywhere else in the county other than Connected City, where the developers are actually stepping forward and building the roads as they develop. But the reality is to build the roads, you've got to have the developer. And that's why I think David said that you've got to have the the density to be able to build the financial plan to build those roads. But
one of her comments was hand cart, it is part of the financial plan. Plan. It it is the four-laning is a part of it. That southern portion is a part of the financial plan to build that road. Barbara talked about Hancart and Ollbridge and the improvements there. Again, Jupree East, she had mentioned, but there they are building part of the north-south set system because there are about three roads that actually, north-south roads are being built that parallel Hancart Road. They will all provide that additional capacity. And
then with Hancart and Jesse Daniels, we've done a detailed analysis of the intersection, and there will be left and right turn lanes built as a part of this project on Hancart Road to help with the operation of that intersection. Unless you've got any questions for me.
Do you have one button? You want to go go you go first.
Okay. So uh you all know I know I live a little bit north of here. And it is a frustration 'cause if I'm going to Zephyrhills first thing in the morning and I forget, I'm in that line. So I mean I understand what you said, I don't disagree with it, but what's the re is there a reality, is there any relief on the horizon f in the immediate future for that situation in Hankarton Eland?
Um you know it the immediate no, I mean the reality is you know, but we are building those roads. Right. We're going to get build those roads. But the reality is, you know, will there be a little bit of pain, you know, prior to those coming in? Yes. But uh yeah, Hankart again, Hankart's getting built to Clinton. Um and there's other roads again there's the uh Watergrass Parkway that ultimately connect to uh River Glen that will help as a as a parallel facility. So there are roads that are getting done, but you know it's not gonna happen tomorrow. But
but they are planned and and and financially feasible to be done.
Sure. Is there any kind of a timeline do you know for hand cart?
Um well the the the it's starting I mean the reality is that the we're doing the plans right now for starting at Clinton uh and and that that is going all the way down to potentially south of Kiefer. Uh so those plans are already underway. Uh there's plans for Prospect, plans for Tyndall, so those are those plans are already in production right now. I can give you time as far as construction, but they're the developers are moving. Moving forward uh on those. So it it is active right now.
And the other reality I would assume you would agree. Like if some of those other things come to pass, like kefir, you know, then certainly the potential is for people can just find a variety of routes to try to find the easiest way through there.
Yeah, tind Tyndall's getting brought over to hand cards, so there are gonna be alternative ways to get in and get out.
Yeah. So my question is
I guess I'm this is odd to me because for the most part there's been no development of V OPH yet. So there's no way that V OPH could have caused the traffic that's out there today. Um where is this Why is there a traffic situation? I mean, where is all this traffic coming from, in your opinion? Hundred
car. Um yeah, yeah.
It can't be V OPH 'cause there's no there's not a single building permit that's been pulled in V OPH. Is it all Chris Williams? I mean what
that's what I'm thinking. Well i it it it's water grass. Um there's there's trap and and then when you look at what's going down on an island and and part of it is you know with with the uh overpass opening up the interchange you y you see more people using Old Bridge and Overpass to get to the interstate. So
Arkansas Chris has traffic on Hancar picked up since the interchange opened?
I I don't know if I've been down there since but I know there's a big backup from going south on Haincart and hitting island. I and I don't know. I would assume it's people out of Watergrass. I don't know if they're going down the island and getting over to 301 or if they're just going down to Morris Bridge going to Tampa. I mean those are possibilities, but it seems to be since they opened up Old Bridge to get to Hankart, that's all that is flowing from the west, coming east, going down Hancart
south to island and probably going to either Morris Bridge or cutting over to the Bayonet Point.
Well
will that relieve Hancart as well? I would think it would.
Yeah. a lot of a lot of the traffic that is going and and at the intersection of uh hand carton island it's about a fifty-fifty split between people making a left and a right. So when you extend that over to 301, it will relieve that section of of Hancart, I believe. You'll get you'll get a fairly significant reduction. And then also once Watergrass is a or River Glen is a is connected to uh
Overpass, that will also help. So with those two things going on, you're gonna get a pretty significant diversion of traffic. Because now people can get from uh water grass you you can get down to fifty four ultimately. Do once that's done.
Do we have timing of of that overpass to three oh one?
Well do you have the project manager staff here? Maybe they can answer that question or
I'm just curious. I know it's a ways away. I know it's not happening tomorrow. On it on
the past, I'm asking.
Good evening members of the board. Panos Conces, Interim Engineering Services Director for Pasco County. Currently the uh extension of Overpass from east of Boyet Road to US 301 is budgeted for design for this fiscal year, 2023-2024, and actually we are about to start the design. Uh in probably in the summer. The rate of way acquisition is budgeted for 2027 and the construction is budgeted
for 2029. That's fiscal years. So we are looking quite away for the construction. Now, as uh Ms. Wilhite mentioned, we are looking for ways to expedite the construction of the connection between all bridges. Road and uh hand card. uh that's a a pa a point six mile uh extension of overpass. So we're looking at several options on how to expedite that uh segment and e you know c reduce that cut through traffic through all all bridge road.
You know, I hate to say it, but i in the transportation world, twenty twenty nine is actually fairly quick. I mean I know it's it's not gonna sound quick to the residents, but when you hear of other roads that are like twenty fifty and twenty sixty uh yeah. Twenty thirty five. Yeah. Twenty twenty nine I mean that's relatively quick. Yeah.
Any other questions?
Thank
you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.
All right. Barbara, are you finished?
I just had one more question just because Ms. Gibbs had brought it up. So that that creek that runs through there. Yeah. I mean obviously if that's a wet uh a class one that's gonna have to stay in place and and
wetland on our GIS system. I don't know if they've done jurisdictional observations to know whether it is and
I don't know if Barbara wants to address that or not.
I'd have to have Jeremy Couch talk about that.
Good afternoon, good evening. Jeremy Couch [address removed] I have been swarm. What was your question, sir?
So the um the creek that runs through that I guess through that property, obviously that's gonna have to be accounted for and yeah.
Yes, we'll we'll have to we will have to cross it to access the eastern portion of the site. Um but like every project, we're gonna have to get uh permits with the Swippama, we're gonna have to get permits with the county, and we're gonna have to demonstrate that not creating any adverse effects to that float plane. So so we'll have a lot of time. Um I I committed to the resident that I'm gonna meet with her and see it firsthand and we'll get a good handle on it.
Do you know offhand and that whatever year, the early two thousands when that all that water was flowing, that was before I got over there. But do you know if that was like a hundred year storm event or? I'm
gonna research that particular event. You know, typically when you see those kind of things, sometimes it's probably related to some kind of construction sequence where something was blocked or something wasn't open. Yeah. And you see that kind of thing, it's typical. You'd see it a lot more often if that was uh, you know, kind of a systemic era.
Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Jeremy.
Alright.
Any further discussion?
I was just gonna say, you know, because V O P H you know was an overlay and I'd like to think pretty well thought out and thought about utilities and roads and as well as schools, so we own about uh over a hundred acres right around uh hand cart and uh overpass for a future school site. So as the need arises eventually we'll build that campus to accompl you know, again as budget and students demand
we'll certainly activate that campus. As well as other sites in D O D H.
So
uh
So from from what I can see it looks like the project is a little bit of collateral damage to some of the other infrastructure improvements that have been done recently, uh especially the completion of the overpass road interchange and so I get the feeling that's directing a lot of traffic down Hankart uh people don't live anywhere in the area. So uh unfortunately it's uh it's it's caused uh hardships on people that do live in the area. area but it's not really anybody's fault that that lives in the area. So um but ultimately we just have to determine whether or not this meets the
fu you know, proper use of the land and density and and all that. So um for that r reason I'd make a motion to uh approve uh as submitted.
I'll second. Okay, so we have a motion and who's seconded? Yes. Okay, motion is second. Okay, any further discussion on the motion?
I
I know some of these other concerns there's plenty of opportunity to get those addressed further on down the line through the M Puty and
So if if there are no other discussions, all in favor signify by saying aye.
I think.
Opposed, like sign? Okay, no scarries.