PC6 Enclave at Livingston MPUD townhomes
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, May 15, 2025
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What was said
Machine transcription of 2h 35m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 85% of 644 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Next item on the agenda is item PC six. It's PDE twenty-five-seven seven eight one, a rezoning a qu request in the name of Enclave at Livingston MPUD presented by staff.
Good afternoon, William Vermillion, Planning Development, Economic Growth. This is the enclave at Livingston Master Planning Unit Development. This is item PDE twenty-five seventy-seven eighty one. This request comes before you rezoning request from AR Agricultural Residential Zoning District. to MPUD Master Plan Unit Development District with the current future land use of Residential Six. Six dwelling units an acre for the maximum development. Of 178 platted
townhomes on approximately forty six acres.
Here is the current site location. This subject site is just north of State Road 54. Current access is off the existing twenty mile level road. Roughly half a mile east of the Collier and State Road fifty four intersection.
A little bit of a contextual map here. The subject property here is outlined in blue. Just to the west there's the existing Catholic Church and the Academy at the Lakes. School Just to the east is the terabella in PewDieP. That M PUD has approximately 730 approved dwelling units. It's a mixture of multifamily, single-family, and attached townhomes. And just to the south. You can see those platted townhomes. That is
a current MF1 zoning with roughly ninety townhomes at five dwelling units an acre within the residential six future land use. you can see the existing twenty mile level road there outlined in red. And then the darker red shade and on the subsequent slides is the current terminus of the Living Livingston uh Vision Road. Which will provide access to this subject site.
This is just an overview of of what I just mentioned based on the context map. Again there is category one wetlands that separates the MF one townhomes. From the subject site.
Where we can see the the Just to the south, those townhomes as well as Terrabella. The current zoning reflecting AR. Future land use of residential six. The surrounding area is all characterized by residential six as well as some residential nine.
This is the MPD master plan. Really all this does is illustrate the current wetland site constraints, that large category one wetland in the southern portion of this preventing the interconnection to the currently platted townhomes as well as the code which already speaks to Interconnects not having to occur per section 900 if there are platted units already in the ground. Here is the Binding MP concept plan. You can see in red those
are rear loaded. The orange are front loaded town homes. as well as where this subject site will be connecting to Livingston Avenue as well as improving Livingston Avenue from its terminus. to where the project will be accessing.
Here is the exhibit showing the Actually. Let me go back a slide.
the pathway along Livingstone Eight feet. is along the uh along the eastern boundary which will allow for pedestrian circulation internal to this site with the internal sidewalks. But the main boulevard continues north to provide meaningful access as well as open up the development potential of of the property to the north and allow for pedestrian circulation both internal and to future development.
Here is the Current roadway exhibit. Showing the improvements the applicant is providing from the current terminus in the south. to their access point along with the pedestrian facilities which are along the right-way. This is the first phase. of Livingston Avenue, which is essentially the first two lanes at a later date. the um the western portion of the overall county vision road. will be built, which is 124 feet. Shown here
on the right-of-way typical You can see here on the far right of the of the typical that is the portion of Livingston Avenue that'll be constructed by the applicant. the future lanes and phasing to be constructed at a later time. with the uh the other eleven foot travel lanes. Is this one twenty four? Uh Right away typical section is more of a boulevard concept with the large median. With that, that comes with a recommendation of approval from Planning Development Economic Growth. I'm here for any questions.
Okay. Any
questions for War? I have a question. Yes, sir. So William, this is a little better than the prior application because you at least attach something. But what appears that you attach is the timing and phasing methodology statement, not
So that is correct. Um I do have the the timing and phasing. I took this project from a staff member prior to their leaving the county. The agenda had already been approved once I realized Hey, this staff member only uh put in the methodology. I will put the the full ninety page timing phasing into the uh into the agenda prior to the Board of County Commissioners.
For the record, the clerk's office receives letters from staff.
I apologize. I had that written down as my first thing to say. There are ex parte communications that were provided to the clerk's office prior to this meeting.
Okay. All
right, thank you, William.
Thank you, M Ms. Clark.
Good afternoon, Barbara Woolheight, [address removed]. While they're bringing up that PowerPoint, I can hand out Something I'd like to look at.
Thank
you.
Have a motion to receive and file.
Move to receive and file. Second.
All in favor? Aye.
We had a neighborhood meeting on Monday evening and there were some good questions um and I wanted to make sure that we uh put forward I always do that, right? If we tell somebody something, I make sure we put it in a condition. So we can go over these, but I wanted to just tell you what the background was with that.
You've seen the project context map from from Will.
This is the future land use map. Res 9 to our west. We're in a sea of res 6 here, urban service area, urban concentration area. This is our project. Um it's called the Enclave because it sits back behind these wetlands. You can see the wetlands on the eastern side between 20 Mile Level Road and this project and that's why how it got its name, the Enclave at Livingston. As you staff has already explained to you, there
are those four rows of rear loads and then on the outside are the front loads, something the board has been asking projects to do.
As you can see from the revised conditions, the the client has committed to the minimum lot width for these units will be twenty-four feet. Right now the conditions would allow twenty. And the maximum number of units per building will be six. Right now the conditions would allow them to all be eight unit buildings.
This is the product, the front load and then the rear load. We're proposing 178 units. The the existing land use that the Board of County Commissioners, the County put on this property years ago is RED six. We could be allowed up to 215 units. We're proposing 178 as a maximum. That's 5.32 units per acre.
Project compatibility. It's already been found consistent along 20 Mile Level Road to have three story apartments directly adjacent to 20 Mile Level Road. There's 311 of those units. That density is about eighteen point three seven units per acre, so eighteen point seven three eighteen units per acre is is compatible with 20 mile level road.
Also, there's a four-story building directly adjacent to 20 Mile Lobile Road. As you can see here, there's 140 apartments, consisting of independent living, assisted living, and memory care.
To the south is a similar townhome project at a similar density. The density there is five units per acre. This project is 5.32. Very similar densities. And then we put a m impact and mobility fee um slide that just says what the total mobility fees were. This is something that came up at our neighborhood meeting, you know, what does what do projects pay? I don't think everybody recognizes the amount of fees that are paid um by these projects. Some key um conditions. that
I would point out. One, we've agreed to a binding concept plan. Two, we've agreed to access easements for our interconnections to make sure that those are true interconnections to the north and the west and they can't be gated and that the public can use those for true interconnections. We're dedicating right away for future further extension of Living Road ex Livingston extension. We're dedicating a 30-foot wide area for an existing reclaimed water lane that water line that's not in an easement. We are constructing a portion of the Vision Road for no mobility
fee credits. Portion of our project as you can see on the binding plan is required to have rarloaded townhomes. We've agreed to exceed the code regarding visitor parking. We have to have a minimum of 0.25 visitor spaces per residential unit. And the key to that is that they have to be located outside of the driveway and outside of the garage. So we can't take credit for the driveway and the garage, like the code allows, for visitor parking.
We are I have my team here and I think we'll just wait to kinda see what the public comment is and we'll provide uh more information after that.
Barbara, I have a question about one of your conditions. Um
Your first condition talks about stabilizing Livingston Road extension and Using it for construction access. Are you saying that? First of all, when would you do you saying you're gonna stabilize it? Before you start
We're gonna stabilize it for before we have construction traffic um entering the site. And I can work on that language with you if you want.
Um
but that's the thing.
But I guess my bigger question is does that that mean you're not gonna do any have any construction traffic on twenty mile level road?
I think the only thing that'll happen is when you have to get the equipment up to this location. And mobilize the equipment, but once and we can we can work on language, once the equipment's mobilized to do this stabilization. All of the work's gonna come up from um twenty mile excuse me from Livingston Road extension. This was this was a question, a very good question by the residents and um wanting to make sure that we weren't gonna use twenty mile level road for our construction traffic every day.
So are the Here are your utilities that you need for the site. You don't need to do any additional work in twenty mile level road for that.
There are utilities work work will that have to be done in twenty mile level road?
I did then I think you need to maybe clean up this language a little bit to make it clear what construction traffic will continue to use twenty mile level road and w won't because I this
It's a little vague.
This makes it sound like all of your construction access is gonna be using Lemonston and it doesn't sound like that's Totally accurate.
Sounds good. Yes. The thought is there. I can clean up the language certainly. Thank you for reminding me.
It's the twenty four foot minimum lot width for front lo front loaded townhomes.
It's on the MPV
plan? The dimensional you can if you're
not seeing it in the
M P plan. Okay. The minimum width of twenty is on the M Pud plan.
Thank you.
All right. Is there anybody here that would like to ask some questions or speak?
The first individual that we have signed up for comment is a Ms. Susan Lang. All right.
You give us your full name, Ms. Lang, and your address.
My name is Susan Lang. I reside at [address removed]. I want to thank you guys for your time and consideration today. My main concerns in opposition to the product revolves pretty much around traffic, safety, density, and some inconsistencies in the documents provided. The thousand square foot or thousand foot of Livingston to the north of Highway 54 is a little road that has a lot of traffic. Connected to that is Venezia Drive, which connects Terrabella or Via Bella Drive to Livingston.
It dead ends at both ends. Um
There are approximately the three hundred and eleven or three hundred and thirty-one apartments that utilize Livingston, that little SNP. There's about two hundred and fifty three homes in Terrabella. There's a senior living facility, there's a Florida medical building, and the commercial right there on fifty-four. On Uh fifty four from the east side of Collier Parkway to Via Bella is one mile. And in that one mile, there have been over 415 accidents between 2011 and 2022. Approximately a hundred of
those accidents occurred at that Livingston State Road fifty four intersection. There were two fatalities. In the same timeframe, the interchange at I-75 and State Road 56 had over 500 accidents, no fatalities. Also at Old State Road 54 and 56 there were about forty forty-six crashes or so, no fatalities. The capacity of the signal at Livingston and State Road 54 will become overburdened with the addition of 500 plus vehicles and the level of service
will fail. When this happens, who's gonna be responsible for that? Is that gonna be Pasco County or is that D O T?
According to the timing and methodology report that was given to me by Pasco County, um it was b uh put together July twenty-first of twenty-three. The traffic count did not include a count on twenty mile level, nor did it include anything on Venezia Drive. If the existing count which was done on the north side of Livingston, if it was done north of that Venezu Drive, it's only going to count the traffic to the senior living facility, which would give you some bad numbers. This is a unique intersection where a dead end road It's a dirt road twenty mile
level that is soon to be connected to this Livingston extension. It needs a more conclusive count for safety issues. Um I checked on Pasco County site. There's something called Pasco Lives or Pasco Lives. And in there, um in the housing element items four and five, it suggests that Pasco County should uh utilize land strategically and adopt a gentle density. To uh not affect the approach of single-family neighborhoods and it doesn't affect the feel or character of those
neighborhoods. So I'm asking the Planning Commission to request a current traffic count, including 20-mile level road and Venezia Drive, as well as a reduction in density of the planned development by at least 50 percent. Also, if the traffic count could include Morning Times, that would be critical. I don't believe it has the morning times right now. I believe it was restricted. In conclusion, I'd like some answers to some questions. On the docket today, it says Island Property Partners. Who is that?
Nobody can answer this question. We're told at Stanley Martin doing the development Who is Island Property Partners?
Also, were the permits pulled for this development, was it done by island? property partners or was it done by Stanley Martin? On the methodology report, on the map, it lists vanilla drive behind the commercial businesses on State Road 54. There is no uh vanilla drive in Pasco County. It's Venezia Drive. I don't know who produces this report, but they need to correct it. Um the same methodology report says the zoning was going from AR to MF1. I'd like to know how we got to MPUD and
I'm new at this, so I don't know. Last thing. is uh we were told that they would keep 20 mile level open and we would like that, but yet on the documents in front of you with the exhibits A, B, and C, it says it's still closed. So I just want some clarification. I'm asking for you guys to postpone this today so that further review and corrections can be made. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Hm. Anybody else on the list?
I'm gonna go through the in person list and then we can jump to WebEx. The next next individual that I have signed up in person is a Miss Melody Kelly.
Hello,
my name is Melody Kelly, [address removed].
Can you follow them up?
Just
leave.
Yes.
We were provided, and this is also on the public record, for the school board for the impact study for where the the residents living in those townhomes where their children would be zoned for. As you can see, Rushi and Sun Lake are at a hundred percent and a hundred and seven percent capacity. Academy of the Lakes is currently the ones who have the property. They could expand theirs, but their tuition is very expensive. But my
other concerns and then can you pull up the traffic impact study?
So this traffic impact the phasing and methodology was done in Was at least met in the twenty three. Scroll to the bottom.
I contacted the F D O P to see Who is in charge, but since it's not a state road, that is up to the county. I could not get a clarification. But if you look all the way to the bottom
This is what we have. The terminus that was mentioned by the gentleman earlier, further down.
It says Livingston Avenue, State Road fifty four and vanilla drive. That's does not exist. That's supposed to be Venezia Drive. They might change it, they might not. If you could pull up the um satellites please.
The hundred seventy-eight townhomes will also affect the Huntington Ridge residents because we do not know what the setback will be. Keeping this as agricultural, it will at least be helpful for during hurricane season with heavy rains and flooding. There's also, as you can see, Highlighted in blue, the Venez Drive. We also have pointed out the fact that there's Huntington Ridge when Stanley Morgan shows their enclave. They are cut off right at the bottom. You can see their pool and those properties. Doing
any sort of cutoff on Livingston Road will also impact the fact that there are senior residence facilities, and do you have to get an ER? And the only way you can get to that is through State Road 54. So we block off Livingston, we also block stuff off further to the north. It is also a danger to anyone at the medical Florida Medical Clinic offices that are nearby, any of the senior residents, anyone living in the area, firefighters, EMS. So I propose that we postpone
this and not change it from agricultural because as stated earlier, if it is changed, it cannot be changed back. Meaning that if it is changed and something bad happens, such as flooding, sinkholes, anything disaster-wise, that will be on the county and that will cost us a lot more money. So if you do not mind, I propose that you postpone this, to not change it from agricultural, because it would impact a lot more people than originally proposed and acknowledged.
So what would be the purpose of a continuance?
Let nature be there. It could be expanded to the academy, to the church that is nearby, to the other church that is to the north, have more community spaces, especially because the townhomes itself will not be gated. They will be the prices are high three hundreds to five hundred thousand dollars.
I'm not understanding your request. You're asking that we postpone this. Are you asking that we deny this or just Postpone making it.
I think y'all should I think y'all should deny it, but I know that there is more likely a postpone. So I say deny.
Okay, I understand.
Do you have any other questions? Okay. Thank you gentlemen.
Thank you very much.
Okay.
We have just a few more signed up for in-person comment. The next that we have is a Miss Laura Rice.
Mm-hmm. Welcome Ms. Rice. If you could give us your name and address, please.
Sure. My name is Laura Rice. My address is [address removed]. I'm in the Dupree right off of Collier Parkway. Um I think that this should be absolutely denied. As a medical provider myself, I see a lot of the struggles of parents and my patients and the affordability of childcare as well as School spaces for children,
and I think this land would be much better served in the community. and adding like with the Rec Center, it's on a lottery system now because so many people want to have their children there because it's the only affordable option for childcare during summertime and spring breaks and things like that. And people were chomping at the bit because otherwise it's two hundred and fifty dollars a week per child. That's if
you have two children, two thousand dollars a month in this economy, it's killing people. Um and even as a healthcare provider myself, my other half does not make A fraction of what I do. I am the head of household and we still struggle with paying for childcare. I am very blessed that my daughter will be finally going into kindergarten, which helps. But I think this better this would be better served for our community, as well as the
danger of the traffic. Um I was trying to get to my sister's house at one o'clock on a Saturday and traffic was backed up from the interstate. all the way past Collier Parkway and almost to Highway Forty One. at one o'clock on a Saturday. If you add a hundred and seventy eight, you know, more houses. that they said are gonna be two and three bedrooms. Think about the amount of cars that that's going to add to that area. I feel like Um
before any development of extra houses and things like that should be done, we should be looking at this land and what we could do with these lands for our community and for the needs of our community and struggling parents and struggling citizens. The assisted living facility there. It's very rare to find memory care and as a provider specifically to older adults. Memory care facilities and things like that are a necessity. People are struggling to care for their loved ones
who are getting violent, who are trying to leave the house in the middle of the night because of sundowners and things like that. I I just I think it would be a very big disservice to our community. to put more houses there that are outside of a working parent's income. Um And especially so without making sure that our infrastructure and our community needs are met.
Do you guys have any questions?
Any questions from
up
here?
Yeah. Um, I don't have many questions for the speaker, but since now this is the third speaker in a row that has raised traffic issues with this application I'm increasingly concerned that we don't have the traffic study for this project. Can anybody Email us the traffic study. I mean all we have in our application Packet is a methodology statement that may not even be right 'cause it's Talking about a rezoning MF one. I I mean, does anybody have the actual traffic analysis for this so they can send it to the Planning Commission?
And
can we get a summary of what the results were of the traffic analysis?
Yeah you can you can sit down now.
I just had one other thing real quick. So to go from Collier Parkway, the northern by hail, down to turn on to fifty four takes almost twenty minutes to go that small four mile distance because the problem is is people cannot turn from Collier onto fifty four also again due to that traffic backup. Um it just it's just too much traffic that fifty four can't handle it, much less more traffic. Thank you, gentlemen. You have a process say.
Thank you. Yeah.
Good afternoon. As and Khalil, Development review services. I'll send uh David the traffic report to you actually. Stacy is sending it right.
Yeah, you will have it in the next couple of minutes. But anyway, the study was done for 178 townhomes. Uh the AM trip generation for the project overall and the PM, I'll keep in the numbers for it. They generated a total of 87 trips in the AM peak and 103 in the PM peak. They are c their traffic distribution so shows some about 10% traffic going down Venisia Drive, if you can see Venisia. Yeah.
Ninety percent goes down to the intersection at fifty four and then at fifty four is basically Forty percent, thirty five percent, and ten percent heading south, fifteen percent. That's Livingston. That's Livingston. Okay. Right. So staff had reviewed their project traffic distribution, agreed with it. They're using a build-out of year 2030, so the traffic that they assumed, the future year traffic that they assumed, they took the existing traffic and then they applied a growth factor of 2% to year 2030, came up with the build-out
volumes, added the project traffic, and did the intersection analysis. The analysis results uh Just give me one second.
The intersection at uh 54 um on Livingston Avenue from State Road 54 to uh the the the project entrance, these are link volumes. The it's a VC of point three one. It's very low, so there's no capacity issue on that northern segment of Livingston. 54 from Collier to Livingston. It is a one point three three V over C, so it is you know, failing basically. It's above
E. Um and the section on fifty four from Livingston going east to Oak Grove. The standard SD, it's also at a V over C of 1.32 volume to capacity, so it's not doing really well. But that is the case in existing, and that is the case in the future build-out. It's the background traffic that is and the existing traffic that is causing the failure. Project traffic is contributing point 0.1%. to
what is there right now or will be there in the future. So their percentage, their hundred and seventy-eight townhomes, is point one percent significance consumption of the capacity. At the intersection.
Is there any kind of analysis at the intersection of Livingston and Fifty four. The concern is there any kind of analysis of how the intersection operates at Livingston and fifty four?
Yes.
Gonna ask my colleague who actually reviewed the traffic study, Ben. You can join me for a second.
Did I see Livingston Avenue in project access? 54 at Livingston, yes. It was analyzed in the traffic study. The intersection is currently signalized, and the results shown that. Um It has insignificant impact to the V C ratio but the project traffic added to the background traffic. The report that you will receive.
The Eastbound Movement, the twenty thirty Background traffic with the project added to it. Your eastbound movement is a VC of eastbound uh What is that? Eastbound left is at point three, point eight three.
What
Your um the through is uh one point one five, so your through volumes that are heading eastbound are failing above one point oh. And your rights are not an issue, it's point one two. And when you look at the westbound direction, the westbound left Is that like point eight five? The through is 1.2 again, so heavy through volumes. And the westbound left is a non issue. It's point zero four. When
you look at northbound, if you're heading north on Livingston, you pass 54, go through the intersection. Your northbound left is failing. It's 1.04, just above one. Your northbound through is point four six. There's hardly much traffic.
Is there like a diagram in there of that?
No is a table here that you'll get that shows you the V over C by movement.
Page fourteen.
And the southbound direction is there is no failure identified. So the major failures are happening. eastbound through and westbound through traffic, which is heavy.
And is there any accident history in there?
No, they did not evaluate accidents. I don't know the applicant engineer is here. No, they did not.
Okay.
Page fourteen. Go to table three. You scroll down.
It'll be a like a table.
Is it table three?
Uh it's table two, yeah.
Table three, just just turn it, pivot it ninety degrees, right?
So Uh I'll wait till you're done answering that question. I have another question about the traffic.
I don't know if you all can s see anywhere.
It's on our screen, yeah.
Ma'am, you can't speak from the audience.
My apologies.
Okay I don't know if you your question was answered, was it? It was answered. Okay.
Um So thank you for sending the traffic analysis. This is helpful. Um In the conclusion section it mentions that To deal with the failures on the link. It says
Dude. There's improvements in the cost affordable plan and needs plan that would So we'll improve the level of service along fifty-four. What are those improvements?
Do you want to speak to that, Steve?
He he's referring to the state road fifty-four-fifty-six study that was done. There is improvements identified at Collier and 54 intersection and interchange in the cost uh in the needs plan, I believe. And uh improvements at fifty four and forty one are identified as well.
I'm aware of what's being planned at fifty four and forty one, but is the suggestion that That's going to improve the level of service set. Livingston? I I'm not sh I'm not sure if I understand what
Oh It will improve your congestion that you experience and the delays that you experience because in the peak hours fifty-four in collier fails, basically. Eastbound and westbound. PM peak the westbound direction is backed up.
question is if if hypothetically they built an overpass at collier, Will that improve the level of service at Livingston?
In my opinion, yes it will.
Because you're failing volume, the qua the cup the volume is failing because the three lane or six lane capacity is exceeded by the amount of traffic. And the choke points for any through traffic is always a signal. Whenever traffic comes to a stop, it is impacting the through output of that intersection. And and you need it to allow the cross streets to operate or else they'll never be able to get any gaps to get out. So If if fifty four is going over Collier
Parkway, that ripple effect that happens going towards seventy five when traffic backs up in the evening
The backup of at forty one.
At f at Collier Parkway, definitely. Now if we ever
and there's there's a flyover a carrier in the cost affordable plan?
I I believe so, yes. That's I think that's Needs plan, sorry. Cost needs pl yeah.
Well, As you know, I've expressed concerns about you using the needs plan for purposes of traffic studies because it it's The needs plan is basically pie in the sky. It means we can't afford it.
Right.
So The only thing that's realistic in the L R T P is if it's in the cost affordable body.
Sorry.
So there's a flyover at the end of the year. Call you're in the cost affordable plan.
It's uh it's shown in the Mobility twenty forty five map.
And so it's In the cost affordable plan we have a flyover at call I'm just uh that's what I'm asked. Is that the improvement that's gonna really
Yeah, it says uh new
maybe you can explain what you meant when you said the It
talks about uh it highlights the intersection as a new improved interchange.
Okay. And that's in a c
the cost
affordable plan?
Yep, that's the page form.
So Steve Henry, Linkson Associates 5023 West Floral, Tampa, 33607. So yes, in the cost affordable plan, and this was the 2045 cost affordable plan at the time we did the analysis that there was an interchange in there with Collier. In addition to that, there are identified the and we I was actually on the committee for the 54. analysis that went from US nineteen all the way east of five eighty one. And there's there is improvement that we never came to a final absolute conclusion as to what
that is, but there would be parallel capacity on fifty four. And that is also identified in the cost affordable plan as an improvement to help the capacity and operation of fifty four. Those are things like Whether it be frontage roads, whether it would be elevated roads, whether it be, you know, the interchanges, but there are a multitude of different options that we explored at that point in time to help that h overall segment of fifty four. What?
Uh well, the only one I'm aware of is the widening the potential widening of counting line and for this segment of fifty four What parallel road are you talking about?
Well it would be and that's what we are saying, there wasn't a final determination as to what that additional operational capacity improvements would be. One of the things that we explored was the ability to do an elevated roadway or other options like that that may be where we would put in frontage roads and other options.
at the cost affordable plan. It's a highlighted for that entire segment of 54 and it says uh capacity operational improvements from US nineteen to east of five eighty one. So it wasn't identified exactly what those would be because we never came to a final conclusion as to what those improvements, but there is the uh understanding that there would be some improvements during that time frame that would help the overall operation of 54. So that's why we say in the conclusion that
there is There is something identified. It's just not what that specific improvement is. That's why we couldn't identify exactly what that is, but it is identified as a a need um.
The the interchange with um forty one and collier are specifically identified in the and on the plan.
And in your opinion, will the inter will the improvements to collier alleviate The congestion that was identified at Livingston?
Well there there are a number of things that that that will would help that. One is is that, the other is Division Road, uh as Livingston potentially goes north and ties into Collier as a parallel facility ultimately. You know, so th there are things like that that would help the overall operation of that intersection.
Okay.
Just
a quick question, s Steve. Yeah, they don't. I'm not trying to insinuate, just don't understand. I'm looking at the northbound Movement. And it has a V to C of a hundred and six with the twenty thirty or one point oh six with the twenty thirty background traffic. And then when I add the project traffic it goes down to one point oh four. How does it go down?
The the the program that we use, which is actually what the one that the county and DOT r require that we use, uh in some instances because of the reallocation of traffic, it will actually reduce, even though we don't change the timing, don't change anything else, it will actually sometimes reduce that VC ratio just based on the volume and reallocation in the program itself. But it is a i it's unfortunately it's a program we have to use, but that's that's what happened. It does sometimes g actually give you
a a little bit lower VC ratio for specific movements within the intersection, even though we don't change any of the parameters. Um and believe me, we've we've ac I've actually gone to the um the the people that produce the the program to ask them those questions and I I never can get a a True straight answer. But but that's but but it it uh overall gives you the general what what the what the operation of the intersection is. But it will give you some because when you change the traffic in there,
but Your last name's PE just like mine, and the board rules are pretty clear that you're responsible for the output of your software. You can't blame it on the software.
No, but what I what I can say is that what I'm telling you is that that that's why it will give you a slight a a slightly different answer is because of the reallocation of the time within that intersection for those movements. It will it will even though you increase traffic in that one movement, it will slightly decrease the V C ratio.
Oh, okay. So Steve, while you're up here, do you want to explain why the methodology says the zonings to MF1?
Sure. So what happened was if you know with with when you do Euclidean zonings. To file the zoning. We have to have the traffic study approved. So when they first started this process, they were going to zone the property MF1. So we did the methodology and submitted the analysis based on MF1. After they met with staff, staff asked them to know, can you make it an MPUD? But at that point we had already had the methodology approved. Already had submitted the analysis. So that's
why it it was M F one, 'cause that was the original intent. But but to submit we have to have the analysis approved. So that's why There's that discrepancy. The numbers are the same. We just ended up staff asked them to go to an MPUD. So you're saying the entitlements But the same. Did not change. Did not change.
What we call it, because of the timing of when that analysis has
been.
Just by way of commentary, I think if in the future if you guys are gonna put in a traffic study that there's future improvements that are gonna alleviate congestion. You need to identify what they are or or attach the pages from the cost
It is actually cost affordable plan is actually in the appendix. We have the the Yeah. The um cost affordable plan and the needs plan are all in the appendix of the report and and identify the I apologize. Sorry, I just got it. So I
should have to
look
at this previously.
Yes. Thank you. AC, while you're up there, since you mentioned it, Livingston Punting North to Collier? Is there I know that's vision, but is there any timing on that that you're aware of? N not that I'm aware of, no. Okay. Because that would substantially alleviate a lot of movements through that area. I drive that area extensively and that that intersection of Collier and fifty four is really bad. Sure.
And and that's why it is identified as a i interchange in the future.
Yeah, I would agree that the improvements down to forty one to fifty four would help that to a degree and I know that's high priority, but I'm not sure how much it helps it in the end 'cause I think the real issues going east uh Towards the outlet center.
Do do we know anything about the nature of the The accidents. At the intersection. The lady testified that there were four hundred and something. Accidents. At that intersection. And only five hundred down at the Interchange as compared to this I
I th I thought she had mentioned a segment of roadway, not specific intersection, but maybe I'm incorrect.
actually pull them up pretty quickly here. Um
I guess that's yes, I'd like to know more about the right-of-way. What's the What's the typical ca or is there a typical cause? I mean, is this a is this a problem that's a function of this poor intersection or Is there s some repeating pattern that we see here? I want to make sure that if we approve something here, that we're not going to aggravate that.
Sure.
with the y your your staff has the ability to pull that up. and look at it um pretty quickly to see w what what those accidents were at that intersection.
Which staff is that? Essen?
We were just looking at earlier, so he he
has
the ability to look at that. So we can we can certainly look at that while we're going through this.
So Steve I did look at what you attached. And it's from the twenty forty five L R T P. We now have a twenty fifty L R T P so
No and and I agree and that's why I I had said in my in my comments that we used the twenty forty five because that's what was in effect at the time we did the analysis. Okay wool.
Now that we haven't adopted twenty fifty, have these improvements changed?
I that I honestly th I'd
have to look at that. I have not looked at that.
Okay, well should we be using the plan that's in effect when We approved the rezoning. I mean I
I mean I'd like to know if the twenty fifty plan is any different for these projected improvements that we're Talking about for Cawlier. Could anybody tell me? We can sort of look at that and see.
Okay.
Mr. Moody, I can get the the traffic accident data but I have to request it from traffic operations. They can uh release that. They they gave me some traffic data today for Shady Hills accident reports. I have to put in a request. I do not have direct access to them. I
understand.
Okay.
Alright, Gianna.
The next individual we have signed up for public comment is a Mr. Wyatt Whitson.
Hello, my name is Wyatt Weson. I live on [address removed]. Mr. Witson, would you speak a little louder? Because I think people will have trouble hearing you. Yes, sir. Thank you. I would just like to say adding three hundred plus cars to our road will disrupt our Way of life. For generations we've ridden horses here. My grandmother, my mother, my hi. My mother and now me. Our local schools track team trains here
because it's safe and quiet. If this road becomes overrun with traffic. It won't just be inconvenient, it will be dangerous. With home. We'll lose the ability to ride, to run and to feel safe in our own community. Please don't take this away from me.
That's all. Thank
you. Appreciate it. Be next.
The next individual we have signed up is a Ms. Linda Brown.
Good afternoon. My name is Linda Brown. My address is [address removed]. And I feel that there's no real consideration has been given to the community or the families who live there. Many of for generations. Some of us have called this area home for over 55 years. This is not just a development site. It is a living
living, breathing community with deep cultural Roots shared history in a way Of life worth protecting. When Collier Parkway was built, it introduced severe flooding. I remember wading through waste deep water. in our own driveway, passing snakes, fish, and even alligators, just to reach our cars and have to change clothes before going to work or school. Then Terabella
was built and flooding happened again. Swift Mud had stated that Terabella was a direct contributor to some of our flooding. Now we're facing another large-scale development, 178 townhomes with only one entrance and exit point. That's hundreds of additional vehicles entering and exiting daily. A single access road creating traffic, congestion and raising serious safety concerns,
especially during emergencies, flooding and evacuations. The natural wetlands that help recharge our aquifer and manage stormwater are being destroyed. The retention ponds being installed as a replacement is not offering the same environmental benefits They still They fill with silt and lose their efficiency quickly. And when this project is finished,
the developers will leave just like they did at Terrabella. But we, the residents, will be left to deal with the long term consequences, increased flooding, environmental Degration, unsafe traffic patterns, and the loss of rural cultural that defines this community. We are not against growth, but we are against reckless, short-sighted development that ignores local voices,
just disrupts ecosystems and prioritizes profit over people. Responsible development must be rooted in sustainability, transparency, and respect for the families and the land that are already here.
All right, thank you. Any questions?
Just just clarification, wh where do you live, ma'am, in relation to the development?
I grew up on twenty mile level right. Okay.
Thank you.
Oh I have pictures too.
Yeah. So there's a
next to the driveway where the water had receded.
That's my cousin's house. And there's a water all the way up to his home. That's the driveway.
When are these photos?
Pardon me?
When are these photos taken?
When? At different times throughout the years. Okay. They're not all the same time. This is a That's my cousin's home. And that's actually taken from there's a pond between my mother's home and my cousin's home and The pond goes from his house or way up past his house to my mother's house. That's outside the door.
That's another home. That's on 20 mile level road.
Well.
Another one.
That's the driveway.
That's the driveway.
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.
The next individual we have signed up is a Miss Mary Bartlett.
Good afternoon. My name is Mary Bartlett. I live at [address removed]. We moved to this area twenty six years ago. And the development since then has caused so much and I'm gonna say it again, traffic. It used to be we would only get onto Collier Parkway from weeks and then of course the development went through to Bell Lake Road. From my house, it's
only 2.3 miles from my house to Collier and 54. It takes me 18 to 20 minutes because of the backup is so bad. I also go to a church which is west of Twenty Mile Road. It's called Lake Myrtle. It used to be a Baptist church. Now it's just Lake Myrtle Church. And when I try to get into there, because there is a where you can turn into the church, I cannot get through. The
backup From Collier Parkway. all the way down past almost past the mall is so bad I cannot get into the church. I have to go down to Livingston and try to make a U-turn to actually get into the church. And so for me, four hundred extra cars, let's just say hypothetically two cars, three cars per, is just gonna make it a lot worse. And i the traffic is getting so bad it's dangerous. And when I do try to cross
into the church and people are trying to stop, because there's three lanes of fifty-four. Someone's gonna get killed. So that's why you either have to go down and make a U turn or risk your life. The other thing that people have not mentioned, I'm an environmentalist. I moved out here. Because of the deers. the gopher turtles and all the beautiful life that we have. Nobody is considering what's taking forty six to fifty acres. What are we going to do with
those creatures? What are we going to do for the deers? There are now three dead deers right now on Call Your Parkway. And I know people want to make money, but at what cost? And so for me I personally think between the traffic and like I said, I'm I'm I'm a environmentalist. I believe that we're in dominion over God's world. And so for me, money over creation over land is ridiculous. And I
I I love where I'm living. But it's actually dangerous for me to try to get on to fifty-four anymore. It really is. And I I think this project should be denied in my opinion. Um And I my biggest question is, and this is this is a question I have, in the last five years, how many projects by the commissioners have been denied because of people like us who are against it? Thank
you.
Where do you live?
I live on [address removed]. If you take Collier all the way down It used to be you couldn't go down to Bell Lake Road, but you go down to Weeks and follow it all the way around. I live in a teeny little side street called Satius. It's spelled S Liken Sam E I X A S Place. And I live on a cul-de-sac. And when I built my house, we had to have an engineer come in and do a drainage plan so that we would not flood. the people alongside of us. Because
it does flood. You should see the cul-de-sac when it rains. It's ridiculous. And I just think projects like this will make that worse.
Thank you.
All right. Anyone else?
Last individual we have signed up for in-person comment is a Mr. George Cavalier.
How alloop. Sorry.
Mr. Cavalou. Could you have your full name and your address?
My name is George Cavalloo. I live at [address removed]. Used to be [address removed], but Pasco decided to uh be courteous and change it for us. Got to move without actually moving. Um I was here to talk about the traffic study that was done. My uh information was that it was done in t October of twenty twenty three. It was done between the hours of four and six. Now I just got new information that um it was done more and The
ones that actually ordered the traffic study don't seem to fully comprehend what was there. I would ask for a continuous just so we could study that a little further. Because now I'm talking of something that wasn't actually happening. But can you pull up the aerial of that area?
What I'm s my concern is the traffic study I assume that they did was that it was only on Livingston. It was I assume a weekday that school was in and so there were no holidays, federal holidays, so it'd be normal traffic, but it was only done on Livingston. It was done between the hours of four and six PM. If you look at the map, go up a little bit there. Terabella has 250 homes, assuming there's two two cars per home, but let's say only 50%
of uh 200 cars, 200 people are gonna go to work. If they work east of terrabella, they can go westbound on 54th, they can go right into terabella, right on the main entrance. If they're go th if they work west of terabella, They'll have to come down fifty four eastbound, they have an entrance there, right into the main. If you're coming from the south, up if you're coming up uh Livingston itself at the light, you can go straight. into
where the uh into Livingston North and then make the turn onto Venecia Drive and go in that way. Or you can make a right hand turn right on red, they'll get through quicker and then go through the opening in the median. The study wouldn't have uh, if it was the study that I was informed it was, didn't take into account the morning hours. Terabella, if you wanna go west, you can come out of the main entrance and just shoot straight down a collier and go south into Tampa or north
or wherever. However, if you want to go east, you want to go towards the interstate, you have two choices. You can go ro across three lanes of traffic, which between the hours of seven to nine, It's pretty packed, in fact I've seen it there. where it's gone from the light of collier up almost two terabella, which is a mile on the right hand lane, you've got to shoot all the way across into the left turn lane, then you have to wait for that light. That light is a longer
light than the one that goes on to Livingston eastbound. So now you have terabella can come through to go to go eastbound on 54. They'll come through on Livingston which those cards would not have been counted if the study was done between four and six PM. It would not have been counted in the morning when people are actually leaving. disregarding even the ALF because those people aren't working. And the apartments. Y w if you put this development and you're adding another two hundred cars At a minimum to
the traffic that's there. I I think their study is bogus in my own opinion. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them, but I would like a continuance, at least until we can study their traffic report, or request a new one that is more current. And uh done with the left turn lane the left turn lane onto Livingston on 54, Livingston itself, and then the lanes on Livingston. on the south side of fifty four and also twenty mile level, so we can account for those. Otherwise
that study is useless. And you can see already how impacted it is at over a hundred percent, you know, one point zero four and the other numbers that were there. You know, that's really high traffic and that's because Pretty much Pasco County is a lot of in uh you know uh unsustainable development so far. And now you're just gonna add to it if you approve this. Truthfully, wouldn't mind if you approved a Three houses per acre? That wouldn't be as bad. Wouldn't help us, but it wouldn't be as
bad. And uh, you know, it would be a nice transition from an AR one to the three. It's a better transition than just six houses per acre and high density housing. The meeting that we had with the developer and the the uh attorney and the civil engineers, Alzer pretty much did was uh confirm that We're not just getting the short end of the stick. We're about getting no end of the stick. in this case 'cause it benefits us. It actually hurts us. There's no benefit
to the residents at twenty mile level. Terabella or Huntington Ridge, it affects all of us. You have any questions, be happy to answer them for you.
Uh where do you live there in that
area? Well I'm on high it used to be [address removed], which uh twenty mile level road at certain times uh those people in the third world but not a republics laugh at us 'cause it's so bad. Because they can't even you can find money for a lot of things but they can't pay if that Three quarters of a mile. Or ha or mile. Yeah. I mean I I have a classic car, I can't even take it down half the time because it'll just rattle the hell out of it. And it's hard to find apart
for a 1970 Bonneville convertible. Okay.
That was my uh one gift myself after I get out of the hospital. That'll be the second time.
We hope we enjoy that. That's uh
I it's hard to because, you know, all that lime dust, as soon as I get out to go down the road, I mean the car's full of lime drock lime dust. Yeah, you can't we can't have anything nice over there. My cut my Toyota, that's my daily drivers. Disgustingly the paint is It was gone after two years.
Mm-hmm.
Well if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them. But I would request at least a another traffic study.
Do we have any other questions for uh I don't know. Thank you.
And we're next
week
on WebEx.
We do. We have three individuals signed up on WebEx. Uh the first individual. Well
I'm gonna take a five minute recess. Okay?
Well you do that, it's right.
Talking.
Well David Okay.
I slammed my hand to get something over there. Oh, yeah.
So it makes you feel like a dominant.
It doesn't take much to s start b bleeding.
I'm glad they had something to stop.
Yeah, me too,
because it was daytime.
So my skin's like paper and every time I scratch on a stick or my chicken wire or
it's a combination green. Oh yeah. They don't really have a personal funny. It's more
yeah, right next to it's that's where you know they a little bit further out they'd be able to put a personal or kind of reconfigure that area so they could So that's that's always my comments and hopefully they'll take it into consideration. So that's always a part of my game, I struggle with as well.
Okay, let's reconvene.
All right. I think you should add some people online.
The next individual we have to speak for item P six is a Jonathan Hecht.
Okay.
Yeah.
Hi, good afternoon. My name is Jonathan Hecht. I live at [address removed]. And we have a significant flooding problem on Twenty Mile Level Road, as Linda had uh uh previously mentioned. Um I live within that flood zone. So my property is actually within a flood zone. The issue that we have is the Flow path. Where all of this water drains through. was created in nineteen fifty, by
Swift Mud and Pasco County, to alleviate mosquito control. It was never designed for the intended use that it's being used for right now. Terabella, the apartments at Terabella, the assisted living facility, they all use an open basin. Which means all of the water rolls off. into this flow path. That's an e incredible amount of water. The D E P the F L D E P Pasco
County, and an independent engineering study done by the builder. All have indicated that this flow path cannot handle the amount of water that is being um presented to it. With that said an addition of the Enclave at Livingston, even though they are creating retention ponds too, handle this water. The key word in this is that These retention ponds are
designed for normal rain conditions. Whenever we have large rain conditions, we have a massive amount of runoff from all of these properties, and all of this water runs through this drainage path that goes through my property to the Big Cypress Swamp to the north. It can't handle it. We can't handle any more water until this flow path is improved. I'm not saying that
buildings shouldn't continue to progress or what have you, but you can't I'm telling you you can't, but you shouldn't. approve this. Knowing that the surrounding properties can't handle the existing amount of water that is currently being introduced to it. With the enclave at Livingston, All of that wetlands, everything from the north of 20 Mile Level Road, runs south on 20 Mile Level Road. goes into those wetlands, turns around, and
then comes back north again through this man-made drainage ditch that was created back in the fifties. Again, this was never designed for the massive amount of drainage that is being presented to it. So until this drainage is improved You can't continue to send all of this water Through my property. Um, they're currently scanning some pictures and some photos and documents. I have copies of the property appraiser site where you can see back in 1954. this
drainage site didn't exist. And then they came through and very
Cut this drainage ditch ditch simply to drain this area. of water to help control mosquitoes. They never thought it was going to be the main drainage path for all of these surrounding communities to be draining water into it. So you can see in like nineteen seventy-five it it exists But when you look at current day drainage It's filled in. All this silt and runoff from surrounding properties and all of the limestone from 20-mile-level road, everything that's been carried through. The drainage
is no longer even even allow even able to access the amount of water that's coming through currently. Let alone removing any amount of wetlands that are actu actually helping control the amount of water that we currently have. So I'm asking that you deny this. um request to rezone this property Because my property is already showing um flood amounts that are greater than the hundred year floodplain. If you look at the hundred-year
floodplain and you look how bad that I flood, not just during Hurricane Milton, not just during Hurricane Debbie or any of the other hurricanes, under normal situations when we get just heavy amounts of rain. My property will flood to the point where it's greater than what it shows on the hundred year floodplain.
Okay, well we we I think we have four engineers on this board, so I think they can speak to that. Yeah.
Okay.
Do you have any questions right now? Why just
You said that these retention ponds are designed for everyday events and not big events.
Yes.
Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, so the retention ponds, you know, I was speaking with the engineer for the group. They're designed for normal rain conditions.
An afternoon, three, four o'clock rain rain event that happens, the retention ponds will control on a certain amount of water that normally But when we get these heavy rain events, we've seen the surrounding retention ponds fail. and they will overflow and then go straight into the flow path that runs through my property.
Okay, well I'm not believing Mr. Couch told you that. the engineer for the project 'cause he knows what the design criteria is and The Water Management District rules and the County Rules make us look at a once in a twenty-five year event and a once in a hundred year event, not an afternoon thunderstorm.
Correct.
So they are designed for extreme events is the point I'm trying to make. Yeah.
Okay. And the rules require that they don't discharge any more water after development than they did before development. And that's enforced both at the county level and the state level.
Okay.
And just so you are aware, their their site plan contemplates very little if any impact to the existing wetlands that are on that property? Um and actually creation of quite a bit of retention. On the property.
Okay.
Yeah that that's a that's a state. And
they don't create more w water runoff on your property than you already have. They're not required to fix your property. But they're are required not to hurt your property. And that's that's where the engineers come in. And that's why it's important that we have engineers on this board because The and by the way, I don't think we even had Swift Mutt in nineteen fifty.
I'm sorry?
I don't think we even existed with Swiss M Subur Matten in nineteen fifty. No. When you mentioned the fact that Swift Mud came in and did the ditch. They they they weren't even in existence in nineteen fifty.
Oh okay. I was I was I was with the Swift Mud. Uh Swift Mud along with Pasco County dug that drainage ditch.
Well if you said it was for mosquito control, that's probably the Mosquito Control District. You might want to check with them and see if it's one of their ditches. Okay. To m if it needs maintenance. I mean I I can understand if it's been silted in over the years. In fact, I've been watching the Department of Transportation along US nineteen for the past couple of months start to fix some of their old outfall ditches from the fifties and sixties. after realizing during after the hurricanes they finally woke up and realized that you can't just build
it and forget it, so They're out there doing that now, might be a good time to talk to Mosquito Control about that.
Yeah. Yeah, I've been talking with Pasco County about getting the problem corrected. Um But you know, the one thing that I will say though is every one of these studies that has happened, in accordance with terabella, the assisted living facility, every one of them has said that They are going to control the water. so that it is a reduced amount of water heading towards my property And with every development that has come through, we've seen an increased amount of water, not
a reduction in the amount of water.
Well what I'm telling you is that the requirement is that they They're not required to fix your problem, but they are required not to i w make your problem worse.
Yeah.
And the the engineers have to sign off on that. So if they d if they didn't know what they were doing, they'd be subject to some kind of penalty. So Um I mean it's th it's a serious event. These that's why these developers have to spend so much money with With the development costs, most people have no idea how much money it costs to just to even begin development of one of these properties w by the time you go through all the engineers and the attorneys and the land use
people and the Uh I mean it's a it's a big investment of time and money and that's why That's one of the reasons that we're fortunate to have so many engineers on this board. Because when people
Issues like this. We can speak to them. uh with real knowledge, not just Feelings. So um We're in the we're in a good position to answer any questions that you have and and With regard to engineering and And we're happy to do so. Um And we're we also um are in a position to ask the developer if they've met this criteria. And so Um I appreciate
you coming. I don't know if anybody else has any more questions for you, but I know that uh Water's uh water and traffic are always concerns for everybody. Um But you know what the problem is is the people still keep coming here. You know, and I uh Uh, you know, I for one, uh my I my business has been here for over a hundred years. And I've seen a lot of people come. And I I used to love it. Around
here. When I ca the freedom was unbelievable. But We became a very popular place and people like you And pe people in this room wanna move here and enjoy What everybody else is enjoying, and I don't blame 'em. I don't hold it against them for wanting to do that. But it was sure nice when I was a kid. And I didn't have any of this kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. So You know, it's a you g have to r strike a balance between Nature.
and people. And uh I can't just say that. You know, I w uh my family came here a hundred and fifty years ago and And uh We don't want any of these other people here. We liked it the way it was. We have to strike a balance. We have to be reasonable about our approach. Yeah, I mean people have property rights. So Again, we're trying to get a balance so that people can continue to live C
continue to enjoy. That we don't make your Developed in an area that's that floods. You know we're We're not happy about it. But Probably believe y you did that how many years ago? When did you build your place? My property was built in nineteen seventy five. Well there you go. I mean you you probably wasn't as bad back then. Right, exactly. You know. But And I think as Mr. Moody, who is an engineer, has has said a lot of these uh ditches
and these these uh uh pathways that have were dug for water purposes, dra drainage purposes. have are haven't been main maintained and they need to be maintained. We've come across this And so these are things that Yeah we need the Talk to the county or the whoever's Whoever's responsible for it. Uh because that's their responsibility.
Yeah.
So We have to live here as a community. We can't exclude people. I can't. Make you get a visa to come to Florida, you know. Uh huh.
So We were all here. There all there's always was somebody else here before we were here.
Right.
You know. And so w we gotta find a way to to live together. And Trying to do the best we can. N well nobody wants to make it make life difficult for anybody else. Yeah. No. And that's the basis on which we try to make these decisions. They aren't easy decisions. because we know that we all face those problems in our own neighborhoods. No. Uh, but we just try to do the best we can. So I we appreciate you. being
here and voicing your concerns and we'll do our best to Hear you and address them. As best we can.
Okay.
Thank you.
I was just gonna say Mr Chairman, I was looking at the aerials from the property of Praser and it looks like in nineteen forty one there was a big wetland or substantial wetland. in that area on Mr. Heck's property as well as to the south and then along about nine early nineteen seventies it looked like part of that got filled in. Mm-hmm. And then and then there were ponds created. I don't know what the purpose was, but that ditch was there. That din ditch was there back in nineteen forty. There was there and part of the wetland got
filled in and so that was certainly impactful back then.
Right.
Okay.
Any other questions from Mr. Hack?
And do you want to show any of those?
Yeah, yeah, I mean it well yeah, I mean go go ahead and show the images if you like. So you can see the aerial right there, my son has a drone and he took an aerial of the of the area. Um and you can see that everything north of Terra Lane including the retention ponds have failed and flowed northward. That's all the flooding. Um where you see hect right there, there uh that's where my property is. And so um I have a steel building
right there which was inches away from having water uh enter it.
Oh you looks like you built on the high ground there.
Yeah. And so that's all the water level coming off of um and these these are at different points in time. So
And just more flooding pictures of the property.
Okay.
And this is the DEP letter, you can keep scrolling down. It states that there are um you know issues with the flooding and that it can't control Anything you can just scroll right through it. No one's gonna be able to read that.
Okay, okay.
in the pro proposed development. So we don't we don't have to go through any more. This is all this is stuff that's already been presented as well. So so I just wanted to
All right. Thank you. We appreciate your efforts there and and for sharing your information. Okay. Thank you.
Okay, who's next?
We do have a couple of individuals signed up on WebEx. The first individual we have is a Miss Debbie Goodman.
All right. Ms. Goodman?
Mr. Goodman, are you with us? us?
She is. She is. She is. Uh
Okay.
Take a recess. I just lost I just disconnected WebX.
Uh they're all d all disconnected?
WebEx are just disconnected.
instead of taking a reset since we just took one, can I get an answer to my question about the Cost affordable plan and what's in the Twenty fifty plan.
So on the twenty fifty plan, the interchange is still there. The um interchange of collier. Collar, correct. Okay. At the it does not show the improvements to fifty four. at this point, but it does have uh County Line Road as being four lanes as a parallel road to fifty four in that area.
So in your opinion With the Over when it overpass the collier and the widening of the county line road Address the congestion on fifty fifty-four? That
that
would
certainly help
the s the situation there, yes.
Um And if I the reason I'm concerned is because I'm looking at the code, okay, and it says where there's a failure The analysis will continue with the inclusion of any cost affordable improvements from the M PO. MPO's adopted L R T Penny for Pasco. I don't see where your analysis actually analyzed Dead. There's a failure, fifty four. Right. All you did was make this generalized conclusion that There was improvements in the L R
T P that would address the failure.
Well and part of that is because in in the LRTP that was in effect at the time we did the analysis, which was a 2045, there weren't specific improvements identified. What those were was the corridor study would be continued to evaluate what that ultimate geometry would be, but that was part of it was Whether it's elevated roads, whether it's frontage roads, whether it's parallel facilities. But that was that was what why we said that was that was the purpose in That's
the right-of-way. a designation on the cost affordable plan was for those improvements along fifty four to help with the with the capacity of the roadway. Okay, but we've
had an adopted twenty fifty L R D P for How no how long now? Um Six months. Six months that wasn't enough time to update the study to Reflect the effect of what's still in the
alert
EP,
which is we we we we have not typically uh every time a a CIP or a you know, c you know, long range plan gets a change that we update all the analysis we've done. We we can certainly do that, but th that is not historically what the code says. The code says you're supposed to use the adopted L R T P. And we use it at the at the time that we submitted the analysis, we used the adopted L R T P.
Again, what was the improvement that's now in the new L R T P
So the what's in the uh new I think the dip the what I'm hearing Unless staff tells me I'm wrong. What I'm hearing is that the big difference between the twenty forty five L R T P and the current L R T P is not the improvements. Apparently they both have Collier Parkway And you interchange or call your And the widening account and line road are barrel apparent both in the cost affordable plan, correct? Both both versions. That's a minor say Yes. That's what we looked at just a minute. You looked at cost affordable, that's what we make sure. Okay. Um Because
that's also in the code, so it's gotta be cost affordable and not needs. Right. Um The big difference is that the twenty forty five plan also had a general statement that other improvements that which were to be identified as part of some study might also occur on fifty four. That statement was removed in twenty fifty. So All that's left is is is the caller Parkway Interchange, feature interchange. and the widening Kelly Road. Those
may in fact address congestion on fifty four. I don't know. I mean that's why I asked him the question, but normally the analysis would The way I read the code, the analysis should have said, and if those things are in place It We'll have some improvement on fifty four. four. At least that's how I read the code. Now his statement is he He didn't do that because D L R T P at the time he did his study Didn't have specific improvements identified. But now the only improvements that are identified are those
two improvements as far as I can tell. Right. Right. Which is the An interchange of caller and The widening of County Land Road. And does your analysis,
the the the current version of the analysis, include the interchange and the widening? That was in the twenty forty five
No.
Just as a general conclusion that those that the improvements in the LRGP will
address the failure. Correct. Because that was the purpose in the because we we have less than one percent impact on the road. On fifty four. So the the the comment or the in the analysis is that the improvements that are in the LRTP at the time, cost affordable, would address those capacity deficiencies because that was the purpose in having that designated in in the plan. But what those specific improvements we couldn't run it. because those
are haven't been identified. Th they they were they are to be identified. So that's why it wasn't specific in there.
But the L R T P has changed. It no longer has a statement about some to be identified improvements. So what what is left is an interchange of collar and the winding counterline road. All I wanna know is Do we think that that's likely to address the failure on fifty four? 'Cause it's not in the analysis. Mr. Henry saying he thinks will help. I it'd be nice if our staff could Tell me if they think the same thing. Um I would argue the code requires that to be
analyzed, whether those improvements will help put you for if there's a failure. Um So
I mean the purpose of these timing and phasing analysis At least when we originally adopted the code was it's it's a party planning tool.
Sure.
We're trying to make sure that if we approve development that we have a plan to address the deficiencies. And so it may be that that Dude. those two improvements that are in the L R T P are Our plan to address the deficiencies. I just w I don't have anything that says that.
No, and I see and at the time we did the analysis. Those improv we did address it in the code because th uh that improvement at the time we did the analysis we used the adopted like plan and that would have addressed The deficiencies.
Right, but it was a but it but it was a win. But it was an unknown solution at the time. Fully understand. Fully understand. Okay. So apparently we've abandoned that idea of an unknown solution. At least in the twenty fifty plan. So Now that we have the only known solutions being then interchange a collier in the winding of Kenland Road. I would just be nice if somebody actually said That that's our plan to address the deficiency that was identified in the study.
When?
It's it's a twenty fifty plan, so twenty fifty from twenty
five years from now.
Correct.
But that's the response I expected. expected.
At least we know we can afford it twenty five years from now. I uh this is why I've had some promises. W well I but this is why I've had some concerns with staff relying on the needs plan because The needs plan shows what we need but it is it's it's improvements we can't even afford. Even in twenty-five years. So I Steve, I'm gonna
just gotta tell you I'm not worried about a traffic jam solution twenty-five years from now. I'm worried about four hundred accidents today.
Sixty one accidents at that intersection. Twenty eight of them are rear end, which you would expect at a signalized intersection. So the the It's only been sixty one in five years. So it is not four hundred or five hundred at that intersection. And I'm certainly glad to if you want to bring staff up there and confirm that. But we we pulled it up on the You the analysis that shows the and tracks the intersect the intersections and the accidents at those intersections.
You're talking about Livingston at
the Fifty Four and Livingston, correct. On Livingston or on Livingston? At the at the intersection of 54 and Livingston, there have been 61 accidents in five years.
Okay. That's a big difference than four hundred. Correct. I and I think she was talking about a segment, at least when I heard it w it was a segment of of fifty-four, not the intersection. But we pulled up the specific intersection to look at the last five years of accident data.
All right.
Um And then I I do want to address your your one other question on the the northbound left, just to explain to you. So again, th the the the program is an iterative program and so it will we keep the same signal timing Background. Plus project. but it will still reallocate what's called effective green time. It will in the program actually reassign that. We we don't have any control over that. And in this instance. The northbound
left went from nineteen point three seconds of effective green time to nineteen point six. So background was nineteen point three. the background plus project's nineteen point six. That's what creates the slightly d uh decrease in the delay in the in the in the future volumes. And it part of it is it it reassigns it based on demand. So we had more traffic in the through movement. So it will reassign some of that effective green time. So
that's why you'll get a slightly different answer.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No, I mean I would like staff. Somebody from staff to get up and tell me whether they agree that These improvements in the L R T P or Likely to Address the failure in the traffic study.
I don't know who whoever's Whoever reviewed the study or whoever's willing to stand up for it.
Well, It hasn't been evaluated in his traffic study. Whether four laning county line road. It's gonna alleviate or not. the issues on fifty four, but it is a reasonable, you know. Uh Estimate that the the congestion and delays alone fifty four. would experience a reduction when you have a parallel facility that is operating at an acceptable level of service. people would transfer
over to a road that they you know, do not experience congestion. That's how traffic generally works. So In my opinion, yes, it would help, but it has to be evaluated if you need a exact answer, whether it drops from a level of service easy.
I'm looking at the code. It says where there's a failure. The analysis will continue with the inclusion of any cost affordable improvements from the MPO's adopted L R T P. I don't see that analysis anywhere in this so how did we approve the analysis if it doesn't have that
In it.
And to answer your other question that, you know, if the code changed or the L R T P Changed. We have like probably sixty plus MPD projects that have come in. in twenty twenty four that had their traffic studies done and approved, are you saying that we need to go back and redo all of those MPUD traffic studies? Because the LRTP just started.
Okay, but the the the improvements that okay, if you put aside the two B determined improvements, which we don't know what they were And you only go by what they call your parkway.
Yeah. And the Widening and County Line Road, those those were in the twenty forty five L R T P There's not even an analysis as to whether this road will Still fail with Those improvements which are specifically identified in the twenty forty-five LRTP Forget about twenty fifty.
Okay, so you're saying that since there is failure along fifty four along fifty-two any of these developments that we have reviewed and approved and the planning commission has approved and the board has approved that. We should be including wherever there's there's a failure. If there is a failure, the
code says if there's a failure. The analysis will continue with the inclusion of any cost affordable improvements From the MPO's adopted LRTP.
We have not been doing that.
Well that seems to be a problem if you're not following the code.
So how have we addressed failures in traffic plans we've seen or studies?
Say that
again?
So how how have we addressed failures we've seen in traffic studies that have been submitted?
I mean I wanna be clear. Mm a lot of MPDs don't have failures. Okay, so so let let's be clear. I I I I think he may be overblowing when he's saying well we've approved all these traffic studies I would say that probably eighty percent of the traffic saves we get don't identify a failure. Okay, so uh that you may be overstating things by saying we've approved all these traffic so
fifty
Okay. All I'm saying is if there is a failure identified, which there clearly was here The code says we're supposed to look at first you look at what's in the C I Pm Then it says if there's still a failure you look at what's in the cost affordable LRTP.
Are we just not doing that?
We did not do that.
I think it's a problem. I mean you're not following the code. I mean that that was the whole purpose of these analysis was to see Okay, if we have a failure. Do we have something planned to address the failure, either in the CIP or in the cost affordable LRTP?
What I'm hearing is that we might They might call your mite. Kenny Land Road might, but I You know
I mean if you're not gonna do that, I don't know why we still have another code.
But I guess it is what it is.
We can move on to whatever's next question. Or if we mean we got these people on the right-of-way. We do.
Okay, we'll come back to that. Thank you.
Uh the next individual was Ms. Debbie Goodman.
Yes.
Can you hear
me?
Yes. Ms. Goodman, have you been sworn?
Yes, I've been sworn. My name is Debbie Goodman at [address removed]. So I want A little bit and give you some information. I very first speaker that up there, she talked about the accidents.
fifteen between the year of twenty eight Yeah, twenty. Ew. There have been He's at the Of Livingston and fifty four. This morning One year old. killed up at the intersection of 54 and Collier Parkway due to the traffic. Just wanted to I just wanted to go back to that, but you know, I know the other guy said it was he did a fight here, but I just wanted to show you what my our dates were. Um
we would like to formally express our concerns regarding the ongoing overdevelopment of Pasco County, specifically in land and lakes. The charm of the land and With agriculture here. rural character, life, wildlife, and community-based activities like 4-H and FFA. However, every day for new development and the detection of the varied qualities that make this area special. farmland as myself. I a divorce farm.
Uh Uh or com based on I have implored you to take a And assess the lasting being done. And just
what
Ms. Goodman, can you hear me? Uh you're breaking up terri you're breaking up terribly. I can only hear everybody every th third or fourth word. So uh uh we need to either improve it uh the communication or Or move on. So
Okay, well how about this? Let's go ahead on. I think Mike Fellow. people in the audience have for concerns. I'm just asking you And I think that's a good thing.
Okay, Ms. Goodman, uh thank you for uh making the attempt. Um Do we have anybody else online that we can actually hear?
We do. The next individual we have signed up is a Rebecca Yingling.
Can you hear me?
Yes. Yeah we do. Um uh Ms. Yingling, have you been sworn?
Yes.
Okay, thank you. Uh your address please?
Um my address is protected, but I live in the um [address removed].
Okay. Mm. Is that sufficient? Heaven. That's sufficient, yes.
I I'm here to uh comment I we moved over here from the west side of the county in twenty thirteen. Um and I point to um oppose the rezoning of this proposed development. I know many people from um Twenty Mile have commented about the traffic and I do want to add into that I think I know because I try this every day. I have two teenagers. um what is driving, one will soon be driving.
Um I I think a big thing is missing in this traffic study, and I do believe the developer is Maybe I d I don't understand their traffic study 'cause I do this every day. From four PM to six PM, State Road fifty four in between Oh. And call your parkway the parking lot. Um, for me to go a few miles up the road, it could take me twenty minutes. Now at the light at Livingston, it is the only way people will be able to go eastbound
on to State Road fifty four. It is unless they're gonna pull out on fifty four at the main entrance to Terrabella, which nobody's gonna do that 'cause you have to jump over three lanes of traffic, which is impossible. Um
I mean more traffic. You're you're probably looking at 400 cars on a two-lane road with one turn signal. And I'll just give you an example. Yesterday I was taking my son to something. Um the light was backed up. The left hand turn signal to go eastbound on 54 from Livingston was backed up. And there was probably eight or nine cars. It's one lane. To turn lap. And we missed the light. We we were set fast in the cars. So w the light turned green again and
people sleep. People don't pay attention. Um, people were honking their horns. The person then just decided to wait it out, wait till the right light turned yellow and then ride for the rest of us. So this this happens a few times a week. So I sat through a light three times and it took me fifteen minutes to turn left. Onto state road fifty four. This is in addition, this was during the four to six four PM to six PM Um It it shouldn't take me forty minutes to go two miles up the road. My son said maybe
I should just start riding my bike. Um Yeah. The the developer, my understanding from listening during this conversation was they're saying it's already bad, so we're just gonna add more to it. Um, I don't think that's a viable solution. Um, when we first moved down here in 2013, traffic wasn't bad at all. That was before the apartments. And we need to understand I think the other gentleman accurately brought up Um about the
traffic during the morning time. We have the Florida Medical Clinic, which we have that people are coming in and out of. We have people from the apartments leaving. We have Austin Terabella leaving. You have the the retirement center and then you have you're gonna have people from that d new development all leaving and coming in, it's I I don't It's gonna devalue properties, it's gonna be more accidents. I am petrified um with
my kids driving because people don't pay we have no traffic control out here. What there's not. Literally. It's the wild, wild west. Everybody drives how they want. I was in an accident at Livingston. And 54. Um, this was back in December, and for the FHP wait time was three and a half hours. Three and a half hours. Um Just for a response. My taxes keep going up but yet my services go down. Um I also have um a a
friend who had to call nine one one for an emergency due to the traffic backups there. Um the the delay time was extended. Um I would just one more thing. We did the diverging diamond at fifty-four. And seventy five. We have daily accidents at fifty four and seventy-five. That diverts all that traffic over to fifty-four exhaust. So we work traffic. Every afternoon there's an accident. I I I guarantee you're following
the Facebook pages. Um so this this gives us more traffic. And I mean uh t I'm I'm just I I would really like if we could just keep the zone the way it is. I understand it was supposed to be a football field for Uh the Academy of the Lake which I don't think would have impacted the neighboring communities much. but to add this on for somebody I'm in and out several times a day and the rest of the neighbors in my community uh the the lake the neighbors I'm twenty mile this is I don't
wanna live over here if it's gonna take you thirty minutes to go two miles up the road. Um, I would just appreciate if we could um twenty four seven of twenty fifty, um, it's it's not gonna help anybody. Um We need release now and maybe after we get the infrastructure set up. Um, they can look at doing something and putting something like that back there. But Livingston um one turn lane. One turn lane for how many properties to turn eastbound on fifty
four. It's not working now and it's not gonna work. Um It it's just delaying everything away and or accidents. And thank you for your time.
Thank you very much. Any questions?
Okay, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
All right. Anybody else on WebEx?
The last individual that we have signed up to speak on WebEx is a Mr. Mike. There was no last name provided.
Mr. Mike, okay.
Hello, can you hear me?
I can hear you. I need to have your full name and address, please.
Sure, it's Michael Cook, [address removed].
Can you spell the last name for the clerk?
He cooked C O okay.
Thank you.
All right. So I'm here to oppose the twenty mile level development. I've added myself to this fight because our town is overwhelmed. Development has clogged our roads and strain services. Um a as many of us spoke already, we've sat through four or five different cycles of traffic lights, waiting fifteen up to thirty minutes, going and coming to work. Morning and afternoon, more development will just make it worse. You guys are all bunch of you guys are engineers up there, you know, filling wetlands. Plus project is maybe a little reckless.
Wetlands too now they filter water, floods, port wild ice. The story have increases flood risk, harms biodiversity and releases stored carbon, worsening. climate change. The Tampa Premium Outlets. Development filled wetlands and while specific impacts are unclear The region's history shows wetland loss leads to flooding and environmental harm. We can we can't repeat these mistakes. Okay, the premium out was built in twenty fifteen, brought retail
but ignored long term costs. Wetland destruction there and elsewhere has reduced natural flood protection, leaving neighborhoods vulnerable. I live in [address removed] and then we actually flooded uh during the storms last year and lost a couple of homes. Because of the bat nines. Because of the wetland destruction, I should say.
Okay. We just lost WebEx again to
True,
what do
you want to do? So while we're waiting, can I ask the county engineer a question? Sure, absolutely David. Nick, sorry to put you on the spot, but I have a question.
So
Oh sorry, I guess.
It's
god awful.
in
that traffic. I guess he never stopped talking. Every single day.
Mm-hmm. Going in coming float.
Yes, sir.
Keep going.
Is there something? We lost you for a minute, that's why.
Oh, okay. I'm not sure where I where I ended or where I began. I know my three minutes is nearly up, but uh you know, I've I've lived in Land O' Lakes for nearly twenty years. I love where I live but it just feels like I'm being squeezed out. All the documentation isn't submitted. There's some there there's some voids in the documentation and paperwork. that was submitted today, you re you receiving the traffic study during the meeting is sort of unacceptable. That needs to be studied and analyzed properly rather than let's make a decision and move forward. So at the
very least. Postponement. Would be necessary. I'm completely opposed to the entire idea because it's affecting the quality of our life. We want people to keep coming here. Well, let's build it properly and build it As was mentioned earlier. Balance. It's I think I think we're out of balance right now being that there's already a traffic issue
That's present. And we're talking about fixing the traffic issue t ten, fifteen, twenty years from now. Let's fix it now and then talk about developing the land that's so important to us. Well you guys do a great job. I'm not here to badger anybody. I'm not here to dis you know this monitor what you guys do. I appreciate what you're doing. It's tough to be in public service, but thank you for your time. Thank you for the few minutes that I have here and uh You know, my my family and many families around will appreciate at least the delay of this project. And thank you so much. Have a great day.
All right. Thank you for your call in. Thank you for your patience.
Can I ask Nick my question before you you do rebuttal? Yes.
Okay.
Obviously there's concerns about our paperwork. You know, I don't bring anything to you and ask you to vote on something when there's concerns about my paperwork. So We can do this a couple different ways. We're gonna ultimately ask for continuance um so we can work on this paperwork. But we do have drainage concerns, things other than traffic that we could discuss and rebut and talk about, um or we can just continue it. and you know continue this discussion for another day. But we don't want to ask you to have to vote when you have concerns about the paperwork. So
Wanted to jump in there and let you know ultimately we're gonna request a continuance but How we want to go from here Um
Yeah, I have no objection to a continuance. The question I have for Nick is more general about The Tiger Parkway overpass. And what needs to happen to Get that to a stage where It's least close to where for the fifty four forty one. interchanges which I realize it's beyond your client's control, but I Maybe something he could ask the UT about between now and the next meeting.
I think we could have those discussions and have some better information for you. Um let
me just ask you this. Would you rather do that now? I know you Yeah, you and your team have gone through a lot to get to this point. So would you rather go through that partial of portion of it now or? Do it all later.
Yeah, the question is do you want to to talk something about you know there's obviously questions about uh island property partners, there's just you know, there's a different things in here. We had Hunter's Ridge, what's the setback? So maybe if we can answer some of those questions to get those off the you know, we've answered those questions. Um Please We've answered those. So you don't have to hear it again and then we have and then we answer 'em. So I think it makes sense to answer some of these questions. Um ultimately we're gonna continue it because we wanna continue the conversation about traffic.
Okay.
But I think maybe it makes sense to try to Makes sense. Some of these questions answered that I I've been we've been taking notes on. So If I may, start try to do that process.
And I was gonna say I can address the school question as well. Okay.
Very good.
Why don't we have Mr. Williams do that first? Because he is the planning commissioner.
Right. I mean if he wants to do the school part and then I'll
Sure. So the question was raised about school impact. So um Lake Myrtle Elementary currently at seventy-three percent of capacity, so no qu issues there with capacity. The impact analysis that was provided did not take into account the opening of the new Skybrook K8, which will open this coming year. And so Skybrook is gonna provide significant relief to Charles Rushi Middle School. And so we're projecting Rushi
metal to be at eighty-seven percent next year. and then actually probably even lower the next couple years because Kyro K won't open with an eighth grade and it'll take a few years for that to fill up. Um Sun Lake High is currently at 107% and projected to be at 105% next year. Uh the new Angeline school that we opened a couple years ago has had impact on Rushi Metal as well as Sun Lake High. We
expect it to continue to have some impact. on that school. Um certainly growth is going on in Sun Lake's boundary, uh but it is tempered off. uh the last couple of years most of the growth is really more toward the east. However, there is significant future growth mostly associated with the future Bexley Ranch North. Which really isn't doing a lot yet, but we do have a high school site reserved in
Bexley Ranch North that we can build when the time comes. So um We're expecting this project to only have about nine students on the high school side, so we're not overly concerned with the impact to the high school.
Thank you.
So island property partners, I have no idea what happened with the paperwork. Um the owner of the property is Academy at the Lakes, um, and my client who wouldn't be the applicant, my client is Stanley Martin Holmes.
The 20 mile level road, I did notice in the agenda, and maybe this can get fixed too, that in the findings we was talking about exhibit one and exhibit two, option A, option B. There was a time when this paperwork said Initially when it came to you and then we continued it so we could meet have a neighborhood meeting The paperwork said there was two options regarding 20 mile level road and actually the condition required us to request a closure of 20 mile level road. We heard the residents. talked
to the county and said they want twenty mile level road to remain twenty mile level road. We are not we are proposing to extend Livingston Road extension. In order to provide access to this project, we don't intend on using 20-mile level road. We're doing a new road, extension of an existing road, a vision road to access our project. So that paperwork, surprised David didn't call it out yet, but the paperwork is a little messy um on staff's part on the memo and I can see where a resident could
be confused about is there still an option A and option B? There's not. There is a twenty mile level road it will remain. Um
Barbara, I also wonder whether part of the confusion is
There may still be a statement in there that you're sh gonna close twenty mile twenty mile level road within your own property. And so that may be also leading to the confusion because you clearly are I I think you are gonna be closing a portion of twenty mile level road, but it's only within your project.
Houston Road and twenty mile on our access also.
Not At some point it won't exist within your property.
Correct.
To the new road. So I'm just wondering if that's causing part of the confusion as well. I don't I don't know 'cause
But yes, you're right. And we probably could get a better explanation of that in the memo as well. You know, try to clean up some of this so it's clearer. Because I don't think you know, you have to piece together what conditions mean and exhibits mean as opposed to writing what it means. So but you're right. There will be a realignment of 20 Mile Lobel Road. Um by this project and there'll be a segment where twenty mile level road will be routed to Livingston Road extension and then it goes back to their dirt
road as it goes up to to their homes.
But you're saying the twenty mile will still be accessible from State Road fifty four? That's correct.
That's correct, yes. And we did d at our neighborhood meeting we did show the residents where like this is how in in showed 'em how it would be, stop sign here, stop sign there, and so Um but we can do a better job of with staff getting that into a narrative, whether it's my narrative attached to it or staff's narrative and their agenda memo, but we can do a little better job of explaining that so there's not confusion there. On Hunt um Huntington Ridge, what is the setback? Our units are set back from
their property line 30 feet. So it's 30 feet off the property line. To answer that question.
Jeremy Couch with Tampa Civil is here and knows a lot about drainage. Um
And can talk to you all about drainage.
I think that's some of the qu questions that we needed to answer. Um obviously there's traffic, but Did you want to hear from Jeremy about some of the drainage? Okay, great.
Thank you.
Commissioner Oakley. Jeremy Couch with Tampa Civil, 17937 Hunting Bow Circle Lutz, 33558. Um So I've been working on this project now for about a year and a half. And um Immediately we identified that there may be some uh drainage constraints to the north. and that our design Needed to be very sensitive
to those issues. Um The first major hurricane we had uh or major storm that came through a year and a half ago, we went and documented. Through Milton, we documented. Through Helene we documented. Um We threw we flew about a a three hundred acre area. with LIDAR on our own. We went out and did survey work on our own. um to figure out what the issues were what the
challenges were in the area and what um relief could happen. Um At this time right now. Um I have a approved ERP from the Water Management District. Four. uh a masqueraded version. of this community. I also have a permit from Pasco County. Um for masquerading. that considers our
development, our ponds. uh for this community. Um Is that
the right-of-way,
during during that review? I'm permitted right now, yes sir. Yes sir. Development approval memo signed signed just have to put up our it's not rezoned. For yes, sir. Yeah, well it it's we're to be clear This is the masquerading for an improved area. It's not approved to build houses or Run utilities, but For
All right. Um so during that review We got a a great call from um County engineer's office and um some of the county stormwater engineers and said, Hey, Just want you to know. that we have been trying to work with some neighbors To solve an issue. For eight years. And I said, Okay. How can we help? Um And so We
went out and we did a lot of extensive surveying work. On on my nickel because I live in Land O' Lakes and I do care about our community.
And we had four meetings to discuss what We could do For our project.
I gave information to The county. That shows that our project in the twenty five year storm event. reduces our discharge rates by nineteen CFS, which equates to thirty percent. So in the twenty five year events. I'm reducing Over retaining. By thirty percent. Um in the hundred year event. I'm over retaining by ten point eight percent. I know that doesn't help somebody who had
their home within inches during an act of God storm event. But certainly um This community uh would do its small part to the bigger problem. In addition to that, we had a neighborhood meeting. And there were a lot of people that showed up And a lot of people were very concerned about The bigger growth problems we're having. The traffic on fifty four. But at the end of that meeting we were able to
spend some very meaningful time with some of the people that were directly affected. Um by the storms. On twenty mile level. Um I think you guys saw on the aerials, you know. The big issue is is that historically there was a creek A natural creek that ran there, it goes to Cypress Creek. There was a cypress swamp. In the nineteen seventies when we were in the first time. You know we didn't have these growth management rules and ERP permits and
people just made land. And they didn't engineer land, they just made land, they filled in swamps. And they made land. And a few of these homeowners live on that old swamp. And it's And so
And My client. Um has expressed um an interest in going above and beyond. And helping solve the problem that The county can't solve. Um and is is willing to do that. So I think our community from a drainage perspective, I know it's it's hard to explain that to people that are not professional engineers and professional drainage engineers. But I do
want the board to know that This community and our design was very sensitive to their needs and did what we could um for our process to have an incremental benefit to their issue. And I can answer any specific questions you want about what we did, how we did it. What the problems are.
Were there were some M uh issues about a pipe that uh
Th yes, yes, yes Chairman. There they're um I believe you offered to fix
that
on your own. Yes, sir. Um so um so so the real challenge is is where this old swamp was where a lot of these folks And you saw in the imagery you're flooded. Um They're uh The downstream the Upstream. Inverts. are eighteen inches lower than A culvert along the way. So you have a very large wetland system. that's impounded, you know, twenty plus acres, impounded by eighteen inches of water. Um
Um Lowering that culvert. And also increasing the capacity of those culverts by maybe doubling it up Um Would you have a little bit of a little bit more bring about significant Improvements. And I spoke with a few of the residents afterwards And, you know, because this has been a long problem and it's Uh I might not categorize it, but a slight Hatfields
versus McCoy situation. Um not sure who's right or wrong, but certainly Um
eating dinner together every night. Um, it seemed that everybody on both sides would be interested in us helping them and help their neighbors. because they do realize that the people of the south are at risk. And um that you know, there's some improvements that could help 'em and my clients willing to step up to the plate and help facilitate that. Um as long as we have willing participants we can do it. So certainly our Our project has been shown
by permit from two agencies. to clearly meet and exceed our requirements. but even further we're willing to help more.
And those improvements are north of your your property, your project guy?
The the constraints are north. Okay. Um the water really wants to get to Cypress Creek. Yeah,
absolutely.
And it you saw in the one video where it's There's kind of an overland weir in a small area. It's it's impounded. So um So you're talking about
improvements in in that area.
uh get approval to build our community and these neighbors would allow us onto their property to help Um Do this work. Certainly um my
client is interested in helping them. I understand that the pro the problem is on private property. It's on private property. So the county can't do anything about it. The county cannot stand as you're willing to step in and fix the problem. Yes, sir.
What's downstream of the court
that
needs to be lowered eighteen
inches? Uh Cypress Creek. Okay. So it's a little bit more. So we hit Cypress Creek and It's a free day freeway with almost endless capacity. But it's just letting it get there.
Okay. Thank you.
All right, with that, unless you have any other questions for my team. We'd like to ask for a continuance to the June Something meeting. Nineteenth. Nineteenth, somebody looked it up. Thank you. June nineteenth.
I actually do have one more question and that was for Mrs. Is it Lang?
And I still have my question for the county engineer. Mean But we we know your request to continue.
Yes, ma'am.
Yes sir.
Can you clarify your statement about the number of accidents and what was the source that you got that
Absolutely I'd love to. DOT showed me how to use their SOGIA system and you can diagram different areas. So I diagrammed from the east side of Collier Parkway. Over to Via Bella Drive, just the highway, and included the intersection. So it was one mile. My husband drove it twice, one mile. And then I made a smaller diagram just on the Livingston intersection, and that's where the hundred accidents came up. Now the study we only have access publicly through it says two thousand twenty. It does
have a wee bit of information for twenty two and twenty three and I do not have access to current information from that day. So that is all a little bit older, but it is pretty darn accurate 'cause I counted each one. Thank you.
And David, do you have one more question? Yeah for Nick, if you don't mind. Sorry Nick to put you on the spot. He's not really. Um So
Part of the issue we have with fifty four and forty one is that D U T keeps telling us that we can't We can't do a right of way acquisition, we can't do construction until we have an approved P D and E. Which is right. I mean that sounds right to me. You need a designed Rightway before you can acquire right away and construct it. They've also told us that we can't even really s program it. Even though it's part of the SIS system, we can't really program it until we have Right away. Well they they think they may have right away
programmed But Realistically we can't. Get it built until it's designed. But it makes sense. My question is two questions. One is just confirming COIR N fifty four is also part of the SIS system, is that accurate?
Yes.
So That intersection is not completely in county control. It's also partially in D O T's control.
What Is it possible to ask DOT? I don't know whether that's through the M PO process or outside the MPO process to start the P D and E For call your Sooner rather than later, so that we're not I mean the P D and E for fifty four and forty one's been going on for like It feels like ten years. I mean It's it's now reaching a conclusion but I mean but it And now we finally saw f forty one's going over fifty four apparently. Now four Not fifty four over forty one, but I think that's a good thing. I
don't want to see us. repeat the mistakes we had on fifty four and forty one when we're in a extended P D and E process and we haven't even started I mean can we start doing a P D E now for call your Or ask D O T to start a PDE now. recall your so that we're not waiting ten years to You know, assuming we to get it moving.
Mr. Chair, just to introduce myself, Nick Duran, County Engineer. Um absolutely. I I'm reminded of the Chinese proverb, the best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. But the second best time is right now. And and so the the mechanism you would use, the mechanism that Pasco County should use to encourage DOT to accelerate That uh planning develop and Project Development Environmental Study for the interchange is to add it to the MPO's priority list. And that's that's effectively communicating that this
the the elected officials representing Pasco County would like to see that interchange accelerated. Let's figure out what we intend to do so that we can do advanced acquisition. take out some of the roadblocks that have plagued us that forty one and fifty four and get a project underway more quickly.
So I believe that I don't know if we just approved the they just approved the list of project priorities or if it's still a
Yeah, they that was just this past month. That's a once-a-year, but it can be amended, but it's a it's a once-a-year communication device established by Florida statute that says these this group of elected officials is asking the folks administratively at DOT to allocate funds to these various projects on the list.
if the county would like MPO to consider adding adding to the list either now or next year, whatever that is,
W
what Is there a mechanism to do that?
Five of the county commissioners sit on the MPO governing board, they could each one individually reach out to the MPO director and ask for that agenda item to be put on a a future meeting.
Okay. So just we just need a board member to bring it up at MPO basically. Sure.
Or or in a phone call request. I I don't know what their protocols are for agenda requests, uh requesting agenda items like that. But they need to reach out to the director and say, either in the context of a meeting together or separately. Can you please calendar this so that we can have a discussion about it?
I mean given what you know what you've heard today and what you know about the Collier Parkway fifty four intersection, do you think it's an appropriate request to be making?
Well, y sure. I I think State Road fifty four what what the twenty forty five MPO long range plan identified was the need to make some sort of operational investment in State Road fifty four because it's a very busy corridor. And I think what we have now in the twenty fifty plan is a an intend to build an overpass at Calier Parkway and an intent for the county to take on uh the widening of County Line Road to the south as a parallel capacity investment. to maybe alleviate some of the congestion that exists
on fifty four.
So that was gonna be my next question is For the widening of County Line Road. I assume that also needs a P D and E. Okay, i is there a process what would be the process to Accelerate that.
So that that one just happens through the county's adoption of a capital improvement program, which again occurs on an annual basis. Elected officials can direct uh county staff at any convened meeting to say. Hey, let's see if we can't get this moving forward more quickly. Okay. That that that project is not in our five year p capital program. currently, but it certainly could be requested and then it's just a question of funding and prioritization against other projects in that part of the county.
Okay.
Thank you.
Good.
All right. So um I think we've had a request from the applicant. For continuance until June nineteenth.
Um Now you hear a motion. I'll make the motion to continue to June nineteenth meeting in New Port Richey. Second.
Yeah we have a second and third. All in favor? She can define by saying aye. Pose, like sign. All right, June nineteenth is the date.