PEG-247639 Timber Rich MPUD rezoning

2:16:51The following item will be presented by Rolando Boris.

2:17:02Orlando. We've been waiting for you, Orlando. Feel unlucky?

2:17:08Well it's been quite a long meeting so far, right? So anyways. As you know, I'm Orlando Borraz uh with Planning and Economic Uh Growth. I'll be presenting PEG twenty-four seven six three nine, timber rich MPUV. Uh this is a zoning amendment from from a R3 medium density uh residential district to an MPUD, allowing uh 190 single family detach units on approximately 48 acres. And

2:17:38it's currently located west of US High, I mean west of US Highway, 301 specifically west of 14th Street.

2:17:48This is the side location, as you can see it's on the north market area.

2:17:54This is the location of the area, of the subject property as we say.

2:18:00This is going to be the context map and as you can see right over here, if the clicker helps me out

2:18:12Well, on the west side of the property you're going to see Power Line Road Trail and on the east side you're going to see the Northern Seaboard Trail. Northern Seaboard Trail is part of Islacuche Trail and the applicant will be either building their segment or paying the county for the coast uh for this trail over here.

2:18:34As you can see, this is going to be the zoning district, it's going to be R3 already discussed. And this object property is going to be REST 6.

2:18:46The applicant is requesting the following uh variation from the Land Development Code. Uh LDC 906.1.d.11 street access to adjoining property.

2:18:59So it's going to be proposing an emergency access to Catalina Drive, which PEG is in full support, given that it's going to it's going to be avoiding the impacts on the road of the subdivision to the north, which are currently not up to county standards.

2:19:19And this is coming uh recommended by PG with conditions of the work anti-commissioners. If you have any questions, more than happy to answer them.

2:19:29Any questions for the moment?

2:19:32No.

2:19:33Okay, the applicant. You look like the last one.

2:19:38Mr. Chairman Mariano Hobby Hobby and Hobby again. Uh so the project if we go back to the master plan, thank you. The subject property is on 14th Street on the north side of Dade City. It's in the area that's north of Lock Street where the Tommytown Subdivision and Redevelopment Area uh was built and that the county has spent a lot of money resurfacing the streets in that area. This is pretty close to that, um to eat just east of it. And the

2:20:09property is characterized by an area that most of my life has needed big Reinvestment. The streets have been substandard for a long time. There's a mishmash of uses as you come up 14th Street. There's some older legacy kind of light industrial uses, and there have been a number of houses that have been neglected for a number of years. Not to say that everybody's house in that area is.

2:20:39But from a planning perspective, it's got Res 6 future land use for the area that we're dealing with. It's not in northeast Pasco, never has been. The site immediately south of this site is the county's uh Pasco County Housing Authority project that's called Hilltop Landings. And it's on 12.8 acres and I believe at 69. units so it's belt built out at a density of five point four units per acre. The project

2:21:10called Elba Heights, which was built I believe in the early sixties by the Madill family, uh has a three point eight unit um per acre density, which is roughly in line with what this project is. So we feel like the project is in keeping with the density of the area. The area needs reinvestment and it took a lot of pushing to try to get our client up in this area. And so we're excited about that. Now with regard to the alternative standard,

2:21:40we're providing several interconnects here and staff and the obviously the board have been pushing for that. But the Elba Heights subdivision directly north of our site, the roads are in really poor shape, and so we think it's appropriate only to have emergency ad. There so that we're not putting even a greater burden on those streets. The other access, and I think you're probably gonna hear from a a folk or two from the community, the

2:22:11access on the western end is to uh I think it's a uh a lot that has one house on it. It does not provide access from this project. to Power Line Road, that's not our intention. But as you all know, the board is encouraging staff to require interconnects everywhere humanly possible. And so we're generally trying to accommodate them, but we are not accessing Power Line Road and don't believe we'll have any effect on the northeast Pasco area.

2:22:42Um Is that an emergency accident? I believe that's a full access. The emergency access is only the one on the northern end. So what what will happen, Mr. Gray, is it will be stubbed out, but it the stub will be on our property and it may never lead to anything. Um

2:22:58are you required to put that stub there? if there's no proposal to develop the land to the West, so you go in for your pre preliminary development plan. And there's no proposal from the owner to the West. Do you still have to put a little bit of a

2:23:15still if you follow these conditions, we believe that we're going to be m mandated to do that. Now that I know, Mr. Moody, you we've talked about this over many years in the various interconnection uh provisions of the code. And it's this is a I I'm not sure we're getting these all right. I mean, unless somebody develops next to you, I don't know why you'd have to actually build a constructed stub to it. Uh fifteen years ago or so what staff would say is if you just left the land alone so

2:23:45that there could be a connection that would have sufficed. Generally that's not what we hear from staff now. So I think we're assuming we're gonna have to build the stuff, which is kind of silly. Um and there are fairly significant topo uh issues here as well. So just two other things I was I was gonna note. Um this project's been in for a long time too and it's not subject to PM twenty six But but for the uh five foot side yard setback, we're going to meet all of PM

2:24:15twenty six, all the landscaping green space, all the other requirements, streetscape changes and all that. That's good. We are um either going to contribute the cost of or construct the trail along the frontage of the site, which is a ten foot regional trail that the county's trying to build up here. And so hopefully that'll end up being an amenity. And then just one last thing in the spirit of disclosure, so We are working this going to be the site's very likely going to be served by Dade

2:24:45City. Dade City is going through some wastewater capacity challenges and we have to get that worked out and there's a working group that's trying to get that worked out with Dade City right now. But obviously we can't develop this type of development without the utilities being in place. So we added a condition simply saying that prior to of PDP, PSP approval, we have to have a utility service agreement from Dade City, which I think is the rational way of of doing that. So with that I'm happy to answer any questions and

2:25:16obviously we're gonna have a couple of comments from the from the community.

2:25:19Okay.

2:25:21Thank you. Thank you. Alright.

2:25:27Mr. Chair, the first person that signed up to speak on this item is N Nancy Hazelwood, and followed by John Graites and Larry Raw. I I'm sorry if I didn't pronounce her name, last name correctly.

2:25:42Okay.

2:25:44Yeah so

2:25:45what? John and Larry if you wanna come sit up close or you can get up.

2:25:51Nancy Higgswood, [address removed]. I'm speaking for some others that can't turn attend either. Richard Riley and a lady named Mary Strait. So I wanted to point out some policies for future land use, recognition of Northeast Rural. Um Pasco County shall recognize three Your land use policies and land development regulations, the Northeast Rural Area as an area

2:26:21with specific rural character, it should all be the policy of the county, the rural area requires approaches to land use intensities and densities, rural roadway quarter protection, the provision of service facilities, environmental protections, and so on. And uh that's from the CON Plan. Also you can check 604.4 in Land Development Code Scenic Roadway Quarter Preservation and Enhancement. And this section tells

2:26:51you that Frazy Hill and Blanton Roads are scenic roadways. And then you have policy 2.1.1, recognition of northeast rural areas. um Casco should recognize land use policies, blah blah blah. And it's the same. And it goes on about protecting the area. But this project, and I know it fits in, but I could still use less densities there. And it's not abutting, but

2:27:22you're putting probably close to five hundred vehicles on Blanton and Frazy Hill Road from here with this stub out on um Overpass Road. Overpass. No. What's the name of the road?

2:27:40Thank y'all. Power line. You passed that one.

2:27:43Well it won't connect to power line. It won't connect to power line. There's a property in between.

2:27:48It's

2:27:49it's a stub out for

2:27:50it's a stub out, but if anybody decides to buy it or anything else it'll get there. Our point is

2:27:57is that if it is developed then that gets them to Power Line.

2:28:02Yeah. And Power Line adjoins Northeast Rural. And therefore we've got Frazy Hill Road and Blanton Road. that could be already getting overused with the stuff down by the College. Blanton Road is already a substantive road, but mostly we are concerned these roads will no longer sustain and support the rural area if they incur high volumes of traffic. Already that Blanton Road has become

2:28:32dangerous, especially to our cyclists. Um We've always said that our densities and intensities of whether it's homes or vehicles needs to be on 301 and not here.

2:28:51So keeping it off the Northeast Rural roads is the only way is one of the ways that we need to keep the Northeast Rural area sustainable. We can't sustain it if we put mobs of traffic on it. Anyways. Thank you all. I uh hope you will take this into consideration from now and into the future of anything that's going near there. Please don't put that traffic on the northeast rural roads. And

2:29:22maybe there's some way that you could put f fewer people on in this project and it would help also keeping people off the roadways. Thank y'all.

2:29:35Yeah, I just wanna make a comment, uh, Ms. Hazelwood, that you know, that might be something to deal with at that point. So if that other property does get developed and then then we can look at that. If they're considering connecting, that would be the time to kinda broach that subject.

2:29:50We don't want you to speak from there. Uh excuse me. Did you want her to come back up? Yeah. If she wants to make the time about it,

2:29:57I thought about that, but I figure it oughta be done now so it's not an issue then and maybe a a harder issue to run into. More difficult. Thank you.

2:30:12Okay. Was it Larry or John that was next?

2:30:17It's John.

2:30:20John Grace, [address removed]. We don't want your game development. You keep your game houses up North Way of Bridge, anybody.

2:30:29Just a minute. Don't use any profanity. We don't don't want to.

2:30:32I I have a right to free speech. Thank you very much. Speech you have

2:30:35a right to free speech, but not profanity. There's no reason for that. Okay.

2:30:41I'm supposed to earn.

2:30:45Excuse me?

2:30:46All right, listen, we got enough damn traffic up and down fourteenth Street.

2:30:50I just ask you not to use profanity. Just speak anything.

2:30:57Come on,

2:30:57nobody's yelling at you. We have enough traffic up and down fourteenth street there, sir. When there's a bad accident out on three oh one, all the traffic comes on fourteenth street. Can't get in and out of our driveways.

2:31:09Okay.

2:31:10When I pull out of my driveway, I go to the left, I see cows. I wanna keep it. Hold on

2:31:15one second. Could you put the mat back up so we can See exactly where he lives and all that.

2:31:27It's is it Larry?

2:31:29John.

2:31:30John. Okay. I'll get you right in a minute there.

2:31:33I'm right across the street from uh um Abbeheights.

2:31:40So coming back up.

2:31:45There's Fiesta Drive. My house is right across the street from Fiesta Drive.

2:31:49Okay, you got a pointer, somebody got a pointer.

2:31:55Over here? Or you're up your cross

2:31:5714th?

2:31:58From Fiesta, go up to the board.

2:32:01I'm right on fourteenth. That was the first one. Alright, so there's Fiesta Drive. My house is literally right across the street from Fiesta Drive, right on 14th.

2:32:13Okay. So now you're having trouble getting out which way?

2:32:17Either way I go. If if there's a bad accident on 301 They shut it down, all the traffic comes on the 14th Street. So if you develop this property, it's only going to get worse.

2:32:32So

2:32:32how's

2:32:33how's the traffic if normally without an accident shutting it down?

2:32:36It's still bad.

2:32:37Traffic's still

2:32:39traffic's still bad. What's the case? And then my other concern is because if you I don't know if you guys have been down Fourteenth Street, but all the houses on the where's that pointer A? All the houses over here are on an incline and it floods really bad. So if you develop this, where's all the water going to go? All the water is going to go right back into our properties where it's already going.

2:33:05Okay. So I'm I I'm opposed to that. I want to keep it a hay field like it is. Because that's what is being used for now is a hayfield. Let's keep our country country. Let's keep the Yankees the hell up out of Florida. That's all I have to say. We got enough DMs down here. And I just say that because I'm sixth generation for Rhythm.

2:33:31So am I.

2:33:32Yeah, that's a mine.

2:33:36Oh

2:33:37yeah. So I have to apologize to everybody for that outburst. I don't think it was necessary and I tried to warn him and um, you know I think you know, we want to listen to everybody's concerns. I think that's only fair. Um But there's always two sides to every story. So I think we have uh Larry, right?

2:34:03Yes sir. Uh Larry Brow, I'm at uh [address removed].

2:34:09Okay, can you p can you put that mag back up there again? 'Cause I th looking at that Pasco County, logo doesn't do me any good.

2:34:19So I So I originally had no intention of speaking today. When I got here I I knew about this. I knew I don't I've not studied the project. I don't know what the big impact is, uh what it's gonna be to me, but I do know that the Frazy Road and Blanton Road are going to be impacted. So The one thing one thing I wanna say is I spent twenty seven years in the army. I travelled all over the world waiting for that day that I could retire and find that perfect place where I could have Peace.

2:34:51Right to have that tranquility. I tried in Lutz. And when I got to Lutz, it was fine. They said Lutz never changes. If you've been to Lutz lately, you know that that's not true. And they never supported the infrastructure, they just kept building and building and building. And so we we fled. I I thought Dade City was going to be the dream, my my final resting place, my home, where I could, you know, give it to my kids. And

2:35:21you're not

2:35:22that old. Yeah.

2:35:23I'm a little older than that. Grandkids and so I guess my concern is that, you know, the thing that I would ask you is that, you know, you take about think about the, you know, those that do the living, breathing and dying in the communities. You know. that are impacted by, you know, these these projects. First it was, you know, the solar the solar area that really affected us. But honestly, solar doesn't solar

2:35:53panels don't com you know, they don't commit crimes, they don't drive cars, and they don't bother the roadway. So I could I could get past that. All the construction down by the college Now that's a different story. That's going to impact us tremendously. So now we're going to have it coming from the bottom of the hill and then over Frazy Hill. And then I guess I've just ask you what's next. Because I know there's money to be made in this in this community. And I know that there's gentlemen out here that want to make that money.

2:36:24I'm just asking that my guess my time's up, but my I guess I'm just asking that you consider, you know the longer range impacts that once you do this you can't go back. Lutz can never go back to what it was. And I don't want to get in my car and pack up my home and go to Webster or s or either further north. I kinda like it here. Dade City is a beautiful, beautiful. It is the ultimate place to live. So thank you very much.

2:36:53Thank you for coming.

2:36:56Who's next? Is anybody on the list?

2:36:58That was the last person that was signed up, but if you'd like to call for more any other public comment.

2:37:04Okay. Is there any other public comment?

2:37:06Yeah.

2:37:09And for the record we have no one signed up to speak on Witness.

2:37:13Oh baby. Yes, sir. Uh we need your name and address and have you been sworn?

2:37:19Ryan no, no, sir.

2:37:20Uh raise your right hand.

2:37:31Brian Dipell, D-I-P-P-E-L. [address removed]. Um

2:37:42I'd go by that huge pro the the they're they're trying to develop that huge p uh development they offer the interstate. I go by that a lot. And I'm wondering what's gonna happen to the all the animals. That live in there.

2:38:02Yeah. Because I and I also see a a bald eagle every now and then fly around there.

2:38:11And so that's my concern. I I think we have enough development. Overpass Road has that huge warehouse that's still sitting empty, not being used. I go by that all the time also. So what do we need another big development there for? I moved from Tampa to Dade City to be the Liver Rural. And I like to keep it that way. Thank you very much.

2:38:41Thank you for coming.

2:38:49Yeah. I guess there's no other question, so

2:38:54Yeah. Mr. Hambeel come up and try to give you some some of his perspective.

2:39:00Sure. Uh Mr. Chairman, I'm going to have Mike Razor speak to the traffic issues in just a minute, but I thought it would help the Planning Commission to understand a little bit more about the area and the densities involved here. Again, the area in which we find ourselves has never been part of the Northeast Pasco rural area. in close proximity to it, but it has never been in it. And for that reason, the county built the project that's directly south of us after the adoption of Northeast

2:39:31Pasco. Okay, that was built to replace the Dade Oaks project in Dade City and its townhouses and apartments at uh I think forty percent denser than what we're seeking. So we're transitioning down and it's also Mr Corp.

2:39:48Wasn't that the Pasco County Housing Authority that did build that?

2:39:50Yes, Pasco County Housing Authority.

2:39:52I thought you said the county.

2:39:54I understand it's a different body politic. County itself did not build it. The Housing Authority. Okay. Okay. I understand. It's also important to know that the existing zoning on this site is R three. Now R three does have larger lot standards than the 40s and 50s. Than this would allow, but it also is clear in the zoning code that it allows up to a much higher density than what we're seeking here. We are seeking 101 units less

2:40:25than the comp plan allows. So this is not about just creating a bonanza, getting the highest density. We're trying to transition from the townhouse apartment units down to the density, the same density as the Elba Heights project that's directly north of the site. Um I failed to mention before and and if if there are any questions for Mike on on that issue he can answer it as well. But we are uh Fourteenth Street is there's a section of it that's substandard and we're paving repaving

2:40:55it at our cost as well as the trail. So that's going to help. Um as to the gentleman's question about drainage, you all are well aware after all these many hearings that we certainly can't exacerbate any flooding issues. The the rate and the amount of discharge from our site in the uh post pre-development condition can't be exceeded in the post. So there was one question also, I think, about the level of service and impacts on Frazy Hill Road and

2:41:25Blanton Road, and before I turn it over to Mike, I just would point out that the uh Blanton Road I think is probably two miles, three, two, two and a half miles from this site. So it's generally that's considered a long way away from for traffic purposes. And Frazy Hill Road, I believe, from our site is about a half mile away. But I wanted Mike to specifically specifically address the level of service of fourteenth Street, which is what the county is supposed to be concerning itself with.

2:41:53Clark Clark, you mentioned the single family density to the north. is? You said it

2:41:59was it's our our proposal's three point nine units per acre, theirs is three point eight.

2:42:04Okay. Yeah it looks like there's another little s subdevelopment to the south too looks looks similar on the map, but that's the county one.

2:42:15Housing authority one. Okay. I thought that was a little further to the south.

2:42:20All right. Uh good afternoon. Uh for the record, Michael Razor with Razor Transportation Consulting. And I have been sworn. My firm prepared the timing and phasing analysis for this project. So in regard to 14th Street and level service, the um level service with and without the project is both at level service C.

2:42:44volume to capacity ratios, which are a measure of how much traffic is on the road compared to how much capacity a certain road has. North of the project site in the morning, about 10 to 15 percent. In the afternoon, north of the project site, between 20 and 22 percent. South of the project on fourteenth Street Without the project, about 15% in the morning, 25% with the project in the morning. In the afternoon, south

2:43:14of the project site, about twenty percent in the afternoon without the project and about twenty five percent I'm sorry, thirty-five percent with the project. So And The worst case, 35% of the capacity would be consumed with the development of this project, leaving 65% available, which the level service C finding is just a a matter of the way that F DOT's tables work out for this, where level service C is the

2:43:44best level of service that could occur on this particular road. If we were looking at a different category of road, these volume to capacity ratios are more in the line with Lobal Service A and B. So with that, 14th Street, with the project developed, would meet and exceed the county's performance standards that would be applicable. In regard to traffic on Frazy Hills, And to the north of the project in general, the distribution of truck project traffic that

2:44:14we used in our traffic study was obtained from traffic counts done at the other the subdivisions. And we identified 15% to and from the north, which works out to a worst case of 27 vehicles during the peak hour, which is approximately one every two minutes.

2:44:32or one every four minutes in in each direction. So with that, we also, as Clark had just mentioned, there is a substandard road improvement that is going to improve a segment of 14th Street from where it ceases being standard up to the project site driveway. And with that, of course, I'm here for any questions.

2:44:54Yeah. So not specific to this project, but do you know why we don't include the timing and phasing analysis with MPUDs? Because for the Euclidean rezoning Liam does a really Liam and Denise always attach a summary, either attach the time interface analysis or a summary of the time interface analysis so that the Planning Commission and public kind of know everything that you just said before the hearing. I'm trying to figure out why we're not

2:45:25doing that on

2:45:29Right. But but he had no way of knowing what the level of service was because nobody's putting the time and the phasing analysis in the agenda

2:45:37pattern.

2:45:47They're linked as related applications, but they're completely separate. A lot of that stuff isn't necessarily getting dragged over, but I do agree with you, David, it would be instructive for that to be in the agenda package. I would think if I were a neighbor and I saw that it was still operating at level of service C, which is considered generally around the county, very good, I would have been less concerned about the traffic.

2:46:09So Mr. Pitos and Mr. Engle, how do we make sure that happens and we're going forward? Basis that the timing and phasing analysis starts to get attached for MPUDs. It can be added. Yeah.

2:46:26I'll start seeing that now in Civic Clerk. You're gonna start attaching those? Yeah. We'll start attaching them. Okay. Awesome.

2:46:34Clark Mike. Can you go back to the the emergency access connection on the property to the north? What was the The thinking there.

2:46:44Uh the rationale for making an emergency only

2:46:47versus a full and I mean the the thought generally was I was trying to put myself in the position of thinking about what those neighbors would feel like because I'm assuming that if their streets ever get resurfaced and and maybe I know the county's been changing the process that they would be likely getting a PVAS assessment and we didn't want to I I'm very familiar with the site. My grandfather's best friend built that community. I've

2:47:17been out there a lot my whole life and the streets are very much substandard and I just thought that they wouldn't want

2:47:29So

2:47:29You you

2:47:30bring up A point.

2:47:34And this brings me to the connections on the West. And I've said this before and Ma maybe I'm not sure that I understand What the commissioners want as far as interconnection of developments. When I imagine interconnection of developments, and I'm sorry because I'm a West Sider, so I'm going to use some West Side examples. I imagine River Crossing Boulevard connected to Starkey, connected to Decubelis, and it connects all of those developments. I

2:48:04don't envision creating A cut through. into someone else's neighborhood. Um Chuck I'm trying to maybe you can help me with this. There's a if you take Fox Hollow, there's a little cut through just before you get to the school where you can cut through up into Jasmine Lakes and then that street becomes a cut through street. I don't think we want to connect neighborhoods by making people's quiet

2:48:35residential streets cut through streets and and I think what's going on and I and I understand the staff is hearing the commissioner saying we need interconnectivity, yeah, and I think that's great. On the boulevard streets, you know, the the the the main thoroughfares through these things, where the houses back up to the street and are protected by a wall, that makes sense. But to make somebody's quiet residential street an interconnect for the cr for the sake of interconnection is is is really destroying their neighborhoods

2:49:06and their their peaceful enjoyment of their property. I think we gotta be really careful about how we implement street continuation policies. Yes, creating a network of like I said the bigger boulevard streets, sure. But I don't want to make everybody's quiet residential street a cut through street. And so to Miss Hazelwood's point. I'm not sure that we ought to have a connection. out to the west. If they were If

2:49:36the property to the west were something that was 500 acres and was going to support a thousand homes and they were planning vision roads and we want to make sure we connect this vision road and this subdivision to that vision road and that subdivision, but just to create a stub out so that can we can make someone's that'll happen inside this development. They c they build the other development, connect to this proposed stub out, and there's gonna be somebody's lot that's affected by cut through traffic. Right. Trying to get to fourteenth to three oh one or I just

2:50:06think we need to really rethink Staff, maybe you need to have better more discussions with the commission about how we really want to implement you know, our street continuation policies. I don't think we want to use people's residential streets to to create that. So

2:50:28So there are times when those local street connections actually help

2:50:33Yeah.

2:50:33in both communities and can I give you an example we live in Longleaf. There's people that go from Fairbury Springs through Longleaf to get to the signalized intersection is Darkey and 54. So because they don't have their own signalized intersection out to 54. So there are time and yes they're using the local streets. And and Longleaf is connects to Fairway Springs, the Fairway Springs connects to Longleaf. So So Sometimes it's needed to get safe access to because one neighborhood may

2:51:03have a great access to a signal, the other doesn't. But how would you feel if you're

2:51:08the lot that all those cars are going by? You didn't buy I am. I

2:51:12I live on I I I I I am on the one of those lots that people from February Springs go through.

2:51:17I I said this during the last planning commission.

2:51:19But but I'd much rather have that than people getting killed on stereo front. four, I'm being honest with you. As long as they're I got speed control on Longleaf. Okay, I make you we got all kinds of speed tables. They're not flying through Longleaf. Okay, so but do I think it's better for those people to be going out to Starkey and getting to the signal at Starkey and 54 to get on a 54 than trying to cross where they are out on Fairway Springs and probably getting hit on fifty four? Absolutely. Now, I'm not saying that's the case in every single interconnect.

2:51:50Okay. But there are times when those interconnects facilitate safe traffic movement to the collectors and arterials because one neighborhood has a signal and the other doesn't.

2:52:01That that may be, and I warned of a situation that's coming. Mm-hmm. I can tell you right now, there's a whole bunch of development happening on Colony Road and the only way those they can't make a left onto 52. when they get down there. So they're gonna end up cutting through Shadow Ridge at the expense of someone else's quiet little residential street. And that's what happens when we uh don't plan the major streets. When I'm I I got no

2:52:31problem with connecting up the vision roads and Yeah, the major, but I'm not sure that we necessarily need Some Local residential street connection to every little neighborhood. And then especially if in this case But that may at some point impact the northeast rural area. I don't know that it does or it doesn't and I don't know what the neighbors' plans are, if any, to sell or develop but I'm just making a

2:53:01point and it has nothing to do with the approval of this development in my mind. Bye. I just think that that policy needs to be explored a little bit to what To what level do we really want to take this interconnection of streets?

2:53:15Well I I'd say that north stub out that's that's on there does directly go into the rural protection area. So I I'm with you. I kinda scratch my head on the need to have either that western one or the one up north. I mean obviously the

2:53:30one. Near the near the northwest corner. We I I I must say Mr Chairman Mari We agree and and and I think Mr Moody's hitting on it.

2:53:39One up there and then near that one.

2:53:45Staff is responding directly to input from the board, and staff has told me that they feel like they're under a command from the board to do this. But I agree I couldn't agree more. When when we were told that we were going to connect to sites, one the one to the north I think is unoccupied, it's a hayfield. the one to the west, somebody's house on it, and they're both in the northeast Pasco area and all it does is cause a homeowner distress. And you're also hearing from the people in Northeast Pasco,

2:54:15like they're thinking this is part of some master plan or that we're intending to go to Power Line Road. We've never intended that. And so following reflexively on this board policy were scaring people unnecessarily. And so I think maybe maybe a a

2:54:31workshop, David, is in order with the board to discuss these particular issues and to what level and to what end they want to take this This policy. I I'm not saying that interconnection of streets. is necessarily a bad policy. I'm just questioning at what level of street do we really want to do that.

2:54:50Well and I think it probably depends on the area. And and one could argue that in the urban service area where you're playing, I mean, for higher density there's a greater need for It it's harder to argue that that in the urban service area that even vacant pieces of land are gonna stay that way for the next fifty years or they're gonna stay rural because they're in the urban service area. If you get an apartment complex next to it, the chances that it's gonna be a rural lot for the next fifty years is pretty slow. But

2:55:23Does that same interconnect requirement make sense in the rural area or near the northeast rural area? Maybe not. Um unfortunately our code doesn't get into that level of the the code requirement predated us creating the urban service area, the rural northeast rural area, so I don't know that it it's a blunt instrument. Now I think staff tries Based on applicant request to grant I mean, you all frequently grant deviations from that land in Olimpical Requirement. In fact I'd say almost every MPV

2:55:53that comes through has one or two of those deviations in them.

2:55:58And our code can always be amended too, you know, the code's not the Bible.

2:56:02I get it. I'm just saying that probably what needs to happen is that it needs better Stratification

2:56:10based on what the the y the land use is. Yeah. Again, unrelated to this project, the issue itself needs a lot of discussion. Maybe a workshop is in order to to figure those things out. That's all.

2:56:24Well I mean specifically in the context of this project, I mean it it they interconnects the north to the west, except for the emergency access, I just don't see that. I can see the one on the southern property boundary 'cause it's likely that that property there will will develop up residential between the housing and so that makes sense to me. But I'd be much more inclined to approve this without those interconnects either on the north side or on the On the west side. Myself.

2:56:59That's correct. No, we no he said it would not be a good thing. Okay, so you need to have at least one emergency access though. So would that be

2:57:07that we want to ignore if

2:57:08you're

2:57:08not going to be able to do that?

2:57:08So this one here that says Catalina, that would be emergency access, but it would have a barrier. Yeah. Because it's an emergency access. Right. That's right. So th there wouldn't be just willing traffic through there.

2:57:20But I I believe staff has staff has broken. approval of not interconnecting when it's connecting to the northeast rural protection area or to a rural area in the past. I don't I've seen that justification in other MPDs. I don't know why that wasn't requested or approved in this one. That's you'll have to ask the applicant and staff that question 'cause I don't know the answer.

2:57:41Well, I mean again, the the the staff is responding directly to input that they are routinely getting from the board and to Mr. Moody's point we haven't fleshed it out like, hey, is one area of the county different? But I have a hard time believing that if we explained this to board members leading up to the hearing and at the final hearing on it, that they wouldn't support it. I just don't know that creating these two westernmost uh connections to northeast Pasco are really what the board was trying to achieve with the interconnections.

2:58:12So we we wouldn't oppose you know that being included obviously.

2:58:16With

2:58:16the

2:58:17understanding that the one that connects to Catalina is an emergency. Yes, sir. We we want to maintain that. We think that's a barrier there. People wouldn't just drive through there. Absolutely.

2:58:26Well in the future a good compromise could be to, like you said, not have to do the stub out. You know, maybe maybe leave the lot open, you know, plot plot that section as a easement but Yeah. That can always be changed in the future. So I I did have one quick question though regarding um since you're still up here. Uh At least according to what I'm seeing on Google Street View, it looks like fourteenth Street at three oh one is not signalized. Is that correct? Uh that's correct. Okay. Do we know if there's any

2:58:56I guess that would be more of a question for staff, but we know if there's any plans for a signal? Out there at three or one.

2:59:03You mean where it cut pops out to the right when

2:59:04you're northbound? Yeah, where we're fourteen street casting through.

2:59:10It's m there's probably less traffic in that area right now than when I was a kid because there was so many more people cutting through to go to the plant. There was a lot of industrial traffic going through this area and it's pretty quiet now.

2:59:23Yeah.

2:59:25Right. Yeah.

2:59:28Yeah,

2:59:28I'm just wondering about where where 'cause that's where I'm I'm assuming that's where most of traffic's gonna be going is from this development.

2:59:45Um okay. Okay, thank you. We appreciate it. Did you uh Mike, did you have a motion?

2:59:52I just wanted to expand on that. Um in the event that a signal is not warranted there and is there if there is increased traffic that does create a safety issue, you know, D O T and looking at that would likely close the median opening, make a modification or something along those lines. But yeah, there's there's certainly in my mind I uh uh not nearly enough traffic to warrant a traffic signal at that location.

3:00:16Okay. Yeah that was just kind of I I know that would be a concern maybe of some citizens that you know this ex this project's gonna add enough extra traffic to create a safety issue for people trying to get out on the three oh one but so that's why I wanted to address that.

3:00:33Thank you. And don't forget the no Yankees allowed sign.

3:00:39Now Mr. Gray, did you ever think somebody would accuse my family of that? Or mine. Half these people can't even understand me.

3:00:51Mr Mr Chairman M so in response to to Larry's comments and I appreciate them, you know Mr. Gray's been here, family's been here five or six generations. My family's been here five or six generations. Um That may not make you feel any better, but um You know, I I like to look at pasture land. I live in the Dade City area myself. Mr. Hobby's grown up here. I'm looking at land across the street that's currently

3:01:22pasture land that's gonna be turned into houses pretty soon. Do I wanna see that? No, I don't. But property owners have rights too. And that's within raising and that's always the balance. And so when I look at projects like this, I look at the existing land use, as Mr. Hobby pointed out, they can go tomorrow and develop it with more units than what they're proposing. And so, um, do I wanna see

3:01:52it that way? No. If I could go buy up a bunch more of land and have more pasture land I would. But you know, someday my kids will probably sell my land and they'll turn into houses. So, you know, that's always the balance that this commission has to um deal with. So with that I'd move approval. Second.

3:02:14Is that removing

3:02:15those? I'm sorry with with the addition of taking out the um the western those westerns.

3:02:23Yeah, the northwest and the southwest. They still second. I'm sorry, what they still second.

3:02:30Okay, good. Thank you. Okay. And I'll just second what you said about our longevity in the area and for for For me, I'm a V Vietnam veteran too, so I honor your service. And uh and I have a lot of reasons to like a lot of the same things you like. So um But um we have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion?

3:02:59Just confirming we're taking those axis out on the the west, the northwest and the southwest.

3:03:04Mm-hmm. The only way the only one we're leaving is the emergency that's will be closed except for emergency.

3:03:14Well yeah, I'm talking about the extra ones. Yeah. I know you don't wanna be Well

3:03:20I uh no I didn't hear anybody was saying they had an objection to the South East one. That's why I just

3:03:27Okay. No all in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Okay.