Rangeland route study and interchange
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 9m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 73% of 361 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Um we had a few people from the item that we were going on for Rangeland. And there were a cut there were a few people online. Are there still people online?
There are still people online, not sure exactly which ones, but I'll I can read them off the list if we have them. Patrick Briggs.
Patrick Briggs.
Gabriel Bouchard.
Gabriel Bouchard.
Stephen Gladden.
Stephen Gladden. We see you online But we're not hearing you, sir.
I just got a notification from staff that they cannot hear online from anyone speaking. So Khalil, can you make sure everything's open?
Stephen Gladden.
We can see again we can see him online.
Um
Karen Stats. We'll come back to Mr. Glenn. Karen S-T-I-T-E-S. Alan Atlas.
Richard Rogers. Which is there?
Is it muted, unmuted?
Yeah, they're not unmuted. Yeah.
All right folks as we as we call you if you're online, you got please make sure to unmute yourself.
Raymond Jolene.
Is muted?
Those of you who have been trying to we're seeing you but we're not it's showing that you're muted.
It says they're muted and he can't unmute himself. Ray Joe Wine just responded to the right-of-way.
Okay, unmute himself.
Well they while they look at that, I know there was one person who was in the audience that he didn't get a chance to speak, so why don't I bring him up, sir? Name addressed for the record?
Good afternoon, Commissioner. Uh my name is Kaim Shokat. I'm a resident of Bexley. My address is [address removed]. I'm here today because I'm deeply concerned that the community I love is being traded for high speed transit corridor without our consent or even clear explanation.
We often hear that adding lanes is the solution to congestion. But data tells a different story. Adding lanes does not improve traffic efficiency. It's a short-term fix that leads to induced demand. More lanes simply invite more cars until we are right back where we started. Only with more noise and more danger.
Instead of Connecting us, these multi-lane roadways act as concrete scars that divide our communities. When we widen roads, you aren't building bridge, you are building a barrier. It becomes a psychological And physical wall that severes one side of neighborhood from the other. This loss of cohesion is the first step towards community blight, turning vibrant, walkable sanctuary into a transit corridor. That people just want to speed through, not live in. Think about
the human cost of those extra lanes. For a senior citizen or a child, every additional lane of traffic is gone lit. It takes significantly longer for pedestrians to cross a four lane road than a two lane road. Every second they are stuck in that no man's land is a second Where they're vulnerable to a high speed fatality.
We urge the Commission to move away from the carcantic sprawl and dangerous strodes. Those multi lane roadways that are neither efficient highways Mm-hmm. These designs encourage high-speed lane changes and make pedestrian accidents inevitable. Pasco should instead focus on walkable, multi use destinations where people are f aren't forced to drive A car for every small errand. Commissioner Weightman for the residents, not for the commuters. Please support option
A, keep roundabouts intact and reject any plans. for a high speed interchange that would divide and endanger our community. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we think we've come up with a workaround, so we're gonna try to start with the top of the list. Uh one more time. I believe Patrick Briggs was not online. Uh nor was Gabriel Bouchard, but we did have Steven Gladden.
Uh Mr. Glenn, can you unmute yourself or try unmuting now?
Stephen still so shows you muted. And that's not from our end, it's from his end?
Steven try again. Mr. Gleggan, can you try again, please?
Bring 'em forward someone else. Uh let's do it. There we go. There we go. Okay.
All right. Same. Kind of jumped in there, but I apologize.
You're this Raymond Jolene.
Yep, Ray Major Line.
Okay.
And we can see you.
Oh, awesome. Even better. So I'm uh in your address, Raymond? Yep, I'm uh Ray Joe Line, I'm with one six six five eight, Vardo Lane and beautiful Land O' Lakes here, uh Bexley resident, and uh thanks for the opportunity to speak.
Go ahead, sir.
I wanted to start pointing out something that hasn't be been clearly addressed. Why is Bexley the only community being asked to accept a potential six-lane? And uh the inner Interchange. Uh Starkey's not facing that. Other surrounding communities aren't, but but we are. We're in a unique position at the location for this ultimate build out. our community understands and you know We need this improved connectivity. But why why is it us? And uh What
we do not support is the future introduction of an inter interchange and a sixth lane through our residential community. Um that is where the concerns lie. From a traffic standpoint, County representatives have already confirmed that's an interchange connection is to be made in the future, the proposed roundabout that's already there will not be able to handle that that volume. So uh to that point, a signal intersection similar to what is being proposed in the original option B would most likely be required and
we do not want that. Uh this leads to serious questions about fiscal responsibility. How responsible is to spend tax dollars taxpayers money constructing a roundabout that you're ultimately gonna have to remove and replace. And then why is it coming towards us? You can go towards Starkey as well and put that six lane highway, you know. Uh it just doesn't seem to be to be fair or fiscally responsible. Um These concerns are even more important given the statement made during the meeting. Commissioner Starkey, you stated that you
wanted the interchange today and clearly advocating for the ultimate preferred option that includes the six lanes and its interchange. Bring it up towards your residents. I'm sure they'll be here talking, you know, like this this is not right. Well you're gonna put it towards us instead. Um why are we even putting this at all? That's that's my question. And and I guess Commissioner Yeager, uh you know, you're coming up for reelection, you represent our community, we really need your your support here, okay? Uh we're trying to be reasonable, we support a road,
but let's do it we're
Yeah. Uh We do not support planning for an interchange that was never contemplating or fundamentally altered. It will totally fundamentally alter our community. Uh finally, I formally request that the reference of the six lane roads and the interchange be removed from all documents, plans, and materials under this consideration of this board. leaving those references in place directly conflict with the county comprehensive plan, which never contemplated an interchange uh at the location as well. That leads to my last point. What legal authority
does the board have to amend uh the legislative approved c comprehensive plan under this item thirty one. This item is not being presented or a bill is a comprehensive plan amendment, and therefore the Board has no right or authority to change it through this action. These are serious planning, fiscal, and legal issues that deserve proper consideration. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
Uh Richard Rogers.
Mr. Rogers, we're changing your status. Try now.
Okay.
Yes,
yes.
Oh okay, very good. Uh well I'm Richard Rogers. I live at [address removed] in Bexley. I agree with all of the other Bexley residents and others that have The same comments. I have a particular question that's not about Bexley and But it does is affected by written land project. I asked that.
You can ask, but we don't have a dialogue back and forth.
Well the the question I have because it's not been addressed at all, is there's a uh There's a a group of people that uh fly radio controlled airplanes at the West Pasco a modeling association that is down towards Western End. Of the Rangeland uh project. And I'm wondering uh how how this will affect uh their uh being able to continue to There's about two hundred people in that group. that be able to participate there. Uh
is this going to make them have to move their uh their flying field or will they still be able to be able to use that?
We don't respond during public comment, so if you want to ask your questions fine. We may discuss it when the commissioners start talking again.
You you're wasting your time. We we we don't move on back and forth, so we may discuss it when Commissioner comes back to the commissioners at the end of the public comment.
Are you done, sir?
Yes.
Thank you. We're gonna go back. Steve Gladstone. Stand by. Give us just a moment.
Mr. Still shows he's muted.
Mr. Gladden, try it one more time. We've changed your status here, but it hasn't reflected on your end.
Um Christy Lattell. The trail, I'm sorry.
Emilio Rivera.
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Okay, no, thank you for the opportunity uh to to talk. Emilio Rivera, I'm also a neighbor of uh Vexi. Uh [address removed]. Uh moved here uh moved here around six and a half years ago. I'm the original resident of the owner of the house. Honestly never made aware about this uh This project Anyway. The community does uh support
uh Option A, we know we need to Uh we need to support uh uh uh one of the options, but that's the really the uh the option that the community is uh It's uh supporting I did heard at the beginning of the meeting probably Some um discussions about some of the members, I believe it's from the transportation community. And I really want to make sure that it's
not interpreted that uh the preferred option Is the option that the community supports. Okay, so if you if you come and do a pulse check at the Vexley. Um at the Beksley community definitely. That's not the option that it's uh supported. You know, so just wanted to convey Um what is uh the the the option that is supported a lot of us uh move here
because of the the environment, the opportunities, the the open space, the safety. uh of uh of uh what what vexley brings to us and we feel that this is gonna be This is gonna be damaged by other by any of the other options. Okay? So just that's really what I just wanted to convey. Uh thank you for the opportunity.
Joshua Does his status need to change?
Mr. Human, try it now.
Still shows muted.
Josh.
No comment. Just no comment. Just listening in. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Thank you, sir. Um Lee Weskowski.
Well you still showed you.
Uh Mr Weskowski or Lee, please try it now.
Stephen um Bayonet
Stand by we're changing
Hello?
Okay.
Okay, good afternoon. My name is Steven Babin. I live at [address removed] in Land O' Lakes with my wife and family. I also serve in a community leadership role. I'm on both the HOA and CDD board. Um, but I'm here representing myself as a voter. and, you know, for my personal interests and my family's interests. Um I'm asking you directly to oppose the preferred alternative. And if you can't do that, to please postpone the vote today so that the community
can have more time to review the facts. As this proposal was kind of a last-minute addition to the agenda. And we haven't fully vetted it officially as a community and then equally as individuals. I I kind of want to reiterate some facts that are brought up. You know, Bexley was planned as a master plan community that we all purchased into that was approved through the County Commission and through these processes as a walkable human-scale community. You know, we chose to live here so we could
walk to our schools and our parks or neighborhoods and use trails and amenities. Having a six-lane highway through the middle of that would would violate that design and make it unsafe. It essentially splits half the community, directly in half. And that's really not acceptable for pretty much anybody that lives here or anybody that's purchased here. And there a lot of thought and process went into designing this place and I think most of us want to see it through. So overwhelmingly the community
has supported option A. And I also support option A and I and I think we need to do that. I think if we go down these other paths. We're kind of going down roads where things haven't been presented. There's not enough time. And and that's pretty much where I'm at. I think um You know, the community has spoken. about it and and I just r would would hope that you would respect, you know, our voices. That's it. Thank you.
Thank you.
Lindsay Brzezinski.
Good afternoon.
Yes. Go ahead, we're getting it.
Aye, thank you. So my name is Lindsay Mozinski. I represent Asturia Community Development District, which is located at 14745 Promenade Parkway. I've been asked to read a statement to the commission today regarding this route study. We understand that it's going to be constructed and the board and the district wishes to work collaboratively with the county. Be better if I could talk a little bit more clear for you as well. But we also
want to make sure that we address all of the concerns that the Asturia residents have. We've heard the opposition today from a lot of the surrounding community development districts and our neighbors. And we do support something that makes sense and that is safe and prioritizes the public benefit. uh as well. And so we're also gonna be asking for a continuance. of this new preferred alternative so that it can be fully vetted,
so that the public can be involved in an additional workshop or a town hall. Asteria is concerned with any type of street connection through its internal streets to Rangeland. And that is also something new that is being proposed in this preferred alternative with a right exit lane. That's not anything that has been discussed in the years prior that this has been brought up. Uh there's also major concerns regarding sound barriers. and other pedestrian traffic.
And so we're really looking forward to working with the county on this, but we also want a public vetting process that allows genuine feedback from the rest of the community to come through and to be taken into consideration before any final decisions are made. Thank you.
I'm seeing Mr. Rogers, Richard Rogers. Uh are you
heard You did Rogers already, didn't you?
No, yeah, it was Joe Line.
Uh
I don't have anything further. Okay.
No, you heard from Roger.
The only other one was Gladden, Stephen Gladden. And he's not on there now.
Uh what about Lay? I believe we tried. You tried, but I don't think you ever gave them up.
Which one? What was that free? We did Lindsay. Yeah.
Lee Weskowski.
Do you get it even? She loves his gun. Okay. All right, so that's all for public comment then? That's all I have. Okay. All right. It is to the board.
Could you I don't have a question. Okay. Mr. Oakley. Um maybe panelists you can come forward. Tell me about the six-lane portion of of the road that that if the connection is to the Sun Coast, where where will that start and end on Rangeland Road?
It will start at South Branch Boulevard on the west side of uh San Cos.
Um Do we have the conceptual plan?
Yeah, not a way. Is there a Is there another map?
Yeah, otherwise.
Thank you.
Center on that blue line and that dashed line.
Isn't
that just one more bit? That's right.
Am I seeing there now to the east there is the roundabout talking about
to the east and to the west you see the connection of South Branch with the future Rangeland Boulevard just west of uh Sankos, which is in the blue lines. You can see South Branch where it extends close to Rangeland Boulevard.
Okay, south from south branch back to the east.
to the east and uh to the west end of the roundabout.
no no where are you going to do it?
Leave it right there. So
does it go all the way to the roundabout?
It ends at the roundabout. Ends at the roundabout.
So it'll come back into four lanes before the roundabout. Thank you.
Yeah and you need to make clear where the transition back to four lanes is going to be.
It's gonna be past the roundabout on Bad Bay Parkway.
Around about we're gonna drop the lane as a right-of-way towards Bexley Village Drive.
There's no six lanes in
Bexley.
Not six lanes in Bayonet Point.
That's what I'm trying to get at because I don't know I don't think that was very clear.
And and but Bexley Parkway is set up for four lanes. Right now there's two lanes, but the right of way is re preserved for four lanes in the future.
Our engineer has a concept if the board would like to see what that looks like. Yeah.
Yeah, we have provided the conception.
That's exactly.
Perfect.
Is that upside down? Potential.
So basically the sick the third lane going east will become a right hand lane going south on Bad Buxley Parkway. So it's g it will not extend to the west to the east of the roundabout on Budbexley Parkway.
So j I don't know how many feet or having how far that is from the roundabout. It goes into the six lane toward the Sun Coast.
Yeah.
West end of the roundabout towards Sancos it would be six lanes. Should we build the right the interchange? Should
it ever be built?
Yeah, should it should the interchange?
I just want to know how far it went.
It will not it would be hard to change that to a six roundabouts. But that's not showing six lanes.
It is on the left.
On the left, well on the wet. Going toward the sunlight.
Separate dashes. That's two lanes.
We're asking to see the six lanes.
Yeah. So this is
where is the six lane in the on the diagram? 'Cause it's not there.
Where your pen is, is that the lane? Sorry, just
for clarification, this is the preferred alternative, which is just a four lane but what you see Chevron there, the the stripes that are going along, that's providing the extra pavement that would that would allow for a connection to go smoothly into and drop right at Bexley Village. So basically you're preparing the roundabout To make sure it can accept an additional lane so that lane would kind of use some of that chevron pavement to drop into so it would be the the lane would end exactly at the Bexley Village roundabout. Do you have a map that shows the six lanes? We can show you the
the concepts B and C or concept C shows the six lanes with the route. Okay.
Yeah.
Why we're waiting for that panels? Come was brought up by a civil engineer. Was this road designed as an arterial or a collector?
I believe it's a collector as uh part of the When it's when
you add six lanes to it, does that change it from an arterial to a collector?
I don't think so. I mean, Can we have to plan it in
that question?
We uh we go confirm that, but uh I'm not uh hundred percent sure.
What is
rangeland?
I think really the question upon us should be what is what is the purpose of the six lanes, who requested the six lanes and why are they necessary? The
purpose is does it violate the comprehensive plan?
Well, answer that first.
Yeah, we'll find out. Uh the need for the six lanes comes from building the interchange. And the reason is because between the distance between their arms of the interchange and the roundabout is very short. So the cues of the vehicles entering the roundabout will back into the ramps of the interchange and impact the main line of the of Suncoast. So turnpike Asked us to if we want to interchange to put six
lanes between uh South Branch Boulevard and the Roundabout. roundabout. So the request to answer your question, Commissioner, is from the turnpike. You're gonna tell me
my question is? My question is very basic. Going from six lanes, from two lanes to s of going from four lanes to six lanes, is it turning that segment into a arterial or is it still considered a collector?
I don't have that answer right now. Uh. Pas it?
Commissioner Oakley of a arterial in a collector are very similar. It's written in uh the it's called the Ashto Green Book. It's a s federal standard But there's long, you know, several paragraph description and somewhat subjective to say exactly what the threshold is. I don't believe it's tied to a number of lanes. So I I'd we'd have to try to get I'd have to actually read the chapter to tell you if in exactly what it would say, but but in general terms I don't believe it it ties to a number of lanes. All right. So let me ask a planner.
I'd really like the county engineer to speak to that if I could, sir. That's fine.
Okay. I basically understand w what you're talking about now when it it'll transverse into that sixth link, but But it won't affect the roundabout.
Good afternoon, Commissioner's Nick Uren, County Engineer. Um the question is, if you build a six lane road, is it still a collector? No. We don't we don't build six lane collector roads in Pasco County. So it goes from a collector to an arterial with the We don't have any six-lane collector roads in Pasco County. Okay.
And so it's an arterial? It stays arterial the whole roof.
All right, here comes
please.
Yeah. Yeah, uh uh w it it is in our comp line it is a collector road. With an ultimate f uh cross section of four lanes. And we don't have any examples of other roads throughout Pasco County that are called collector roads that have an ultimate cross section of six lanes.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you.
That answered my question where it started and if if it's put in. I just wonder that. It doesn't affect the uh roundabout itself, but it relieves that traffic once it comes through the roundabout and moves people will be able to move to the right and other people can go straight ahead. Correct. And that's what I wanted to kind of clear. Yeah. That's good.
Commission Yeager.
I know panels. Don't leave.
I ain't gonna let you get away that quick.
So I have a question. What is the estimated cost of the project if we wait for the interchange?
I
know that's a hard buttons.
Yeah, I don't well are you, Commissioner, asking if we build alternative A, we built four lanes and we don't account for the additional pavement uh area for the Well I don't have that number, but I know for a fact that if we build Alternative A, and then we go to build the additional lanes in the future. We will have to rebuild drainage because the excuse me. curves on the outside and the inlets and everything will be set, so those will have to be reconstructed. And
the utilities will have to be relocated. once again, why because there will be utilities that when we go to widen to the outside, then we will have to relocate the utilities too. So it's gonna be costly, ta uh disruptive to traffic because it's easier to add lanes in the median than on the outside. So, you know, and obviously it will be costly but I don't have the the figure how much it will cost.
S so if you built the lanes and you did not build the interchange. Do you have a guesstimate of how
Yes, we have that number.
Yes, we have that number.
If you build six lanes or if you're not going to be able to do
four, but you leave the space in between two That's what
alternative A. Right. That's so the preferred alternative does not build the interchange. The preferred alternative just provides four lanes with an extra wide median with forty-four feet. And the extra width in the median doesn't cost a lot. I mean and it's fit within the right-of-way corridor. Um it's basically it's it's just kind of bumping out on the outside, pushing those lanes out now so you can widen to the median later. Uh the d the major cost differences between alternative A and alternative uh the preferred alternative. Is driven a lot by some of the other features that we
added to enhance pedestrian and bicycle safety. We added another pedestrian underpass, which extended the reconstruction, required some reconstruction Bud Backs and Parkway. We also included another roundabout, which helps push down the speeds because that's another question or another concern we had from the public, particularly where we have school children walking around. So we tried to do what we could to impose those speeds through things like. additional roundabouts and then we tried to make sure we provided dual paths on both sides to make sure that the kids could get off of the the road. They didn't have to use a bicycle lane no matter what side they
were coming from. So that's really the bay the major part of the difference. We also increased the The cost we assigned to the right-of-way. Uh it's the same amount of right-of-way impact between alternatives B and C and the preferred alternative, but we we we had a more refined estimate, which we we made sure we only updated the preferred alternative because the other ones were shown to the public just using publicly available kind of right-of-way appraiser uh cost per per acre. But when you do a more refined cost that also increased the price, it was about 20% of the of the overall forty million dollar increase.
So that's not being driven by the extra wide median. The th the width in the median was basically just you know the the price of of the you know additional land or the additional space in between it. But it's not really driven a lot in the construction cost.
Also also the fact about the cost uh the lower it takes to do some of these things, the actual cost has been climbing rather than going down.
Yes, and that's why it's hard to predict to to uh Commissioner Yeager's question. It's difficult because it without knowing the construction date in the future. I mean we could provide a calculation where we would show uh cost of reconstruction and present dollars. That just wasn't part of the analysis that we were con conducting as as part of the route study.
Mr. Starkey.
Do you have more questions? No, I'm good thinking and maybe I might generate some for you. Okay. Um so I wrote down things as people were talking to talk about. Um someone brought up the roundabout up south branch. Well, I think you what you just said is the reason why we're doing these roundabouts. It makes it safer for pedestrians to get across. This is a major trail for the county coming through here, the Orange Belt Trail. It's starting in Trinity, May. already started in Trinity
and is going all the way across the county to the Withlacuochie State Park. And we want people to be, all those people that live on the south side, to be able to safely get to the trail. And uh and traffic, you know, traffic calming. If we don't have those roundabouts and we have that, and I'm talking now on the west side, we won't have this, I think, on the east side, but if we have this road with wilderness on one side and very few cross crossings,
we're gonna have drag races out there. So we've got to got to have the track the traffic surface out there. Um Gun Highway. Um I think um there's potential for more connections from Rangeland to 54, and we need to explore those and keep those options um on the table as those properties come in for development west of Asturia. We have Lake Lake Point. But there's a another developer who's come in. I haven't
seen him in a year or two, but his property also, he's got two big pieces and we contemplate a road there as well.
Uh someone made a comment about density. Yes, we when you have an intersection of Highways like the Sun Coast 54, that is where you put density. That's basic planning. Um the interchange. Gosh, we've been talking about so the place where we do the road talk talking like what we're talking about here today is at our MPO, which is our Metropolitan Planning Organization. Every county has one. Some counties are multiple.
There's multiple counties involved in an MPO. We get federal money for a lot of these roads. And our cities sit on that and that is where these discussions happen, not So much here. Um and we've been talking about this interchange since I was elected fourteen, fifteen I don't know if you were talking about before I got to be a county commissioner. I'm trying to remember um when I was on the school board you brought up this interchange importance, Jack. Um so we have talked about
it for many, many years. It's just that we don't always get into those discussions here. You can shake your head, but unless you came to the MPO meetings, you can you can listen, you can talk about it for a long time. It's
not an app.
Um so the underpass
quiet please.
The underpass on um Bexley is a great amenity to safely cross the road. I wish we had more of those in the county. And I'm pushing for more everywhere that we can get them so pedestrians and cyclists can safely get from one side of the road to the other. Um someone asked why the six lane. I think you described it, it's it's not us, it's it we could just keep the four lane and I think we could should still fight for that. Um
If and when that these connect. This is DOT saying that it has to go to six lanes, not us choosing to go to six lanes. So I think that's I think we need to reserve the land, but still, you know. Make the f make the argument when the time comes and see see see what those numbers look like then. But that's a long time away. Um This road does go through Starkey Ranch. It was always planned to go through Starkey
Ranch. There's two roads that go through Starkey Ranch. When we were developing it, we tried to have both roads have equal weight. Long Spur, which turns into Lake Blanche. Drive and rangeland. And um county. Won that argument and we have range down that goes a little It's a little higher density. But um it has roundabouts and I can tell you there's thousands of kids in there that go to school on their bikes, on their tri on their um scooters.
We've had no accidents. It's incredible the amount of kids that are are getting to school not in a car. Um Asturia. No, Asturias always been planned to connect to Rangeland and it must connect to Rangeland. We cannot have subdivisions in our county that only have one way in and out. And we learn it and if you were stuck in your house when we had that um oil spill on fifty four You couldn't get out of a
story yet during that in that day. So um everybody needs to have at least especially at least two uh waste into their community Especially if you have more than a hundred houses, that's just That's just one of our rules and that's just a very important rule. Um And I think you're gonna like having ranged dam behind you if you wanna get somewhere and not have to get out on fifty four because We continue to develop. There are thousands of homes still. Permitted but not built yet.
that are gonna be using fifty four and so we plan for the future. Twenty years out, thirty years out, forty years out. We won't be here. You may not be here. But someone's gonna be here and they won't be able to move on fifty four if we don't if we don't provide for the future. So these are the things that we have to decide as county commissioners. We have six hundred right now six hundred and sixty thousand people. We're going to a million people. So um
these roads are important and as Commissioner Oakley said we need we need more more of these roads across the county and we're gonna keep working on it and uh so that's where I am on this one.
Thank you. Commissioner Weightman?
Yeah
I
Thank you, Chairman Mariano.
I'm still hung up on the intersection of fifty four and gun. The answer that we received was somewhat vague when I had I think it was Were you on the team's me were you on the call were you the engineer on the call when we discussed Really the crux I mean. We can build a road on ramp, off ramp, and then we can see the right-of-way. four lanes, whichever option, but it's all for nothing if It's a bottleneck at fifty four and gun. I think the success of this project hinges
on The intersection of fifty four and gun highway. And I need some more clarity on that before we spend a pile of money going going literally down this road. it's gonna bottleneck and be stuck like fifty four and forty one. There'll be that much volume. There might be a parallel reliever, but It's all gonna go it's gonna land in one spot.
Why why are you saying that?
Why am I saying that? Because in our briefings when we had with engineer and Panos and others talking about that intersection Talking it through. Um they also Shared similar concerns that that intersection w could end up being stuck. I don't know if you remember correctly.
an answer that was given to me today was oh let's build a road and then we'll see what the how the problems are na later. I think that if if this h whole roadway network is planned to be proactive, that interchange needs to be ran with by working with D O T simultaneously to set up the success for this road and for the future. And basically what I heard today was Well, Pick a design, build it, and then we'll see if that interchange is bogged down, that intersection
is bogged down. Then we'll go to DOT and fix it, and then we'll have eighteen studies later and we'll be like fifty-four and forty-one. And we're talking about it for sixteen years. So I think now's a a good opportunity to take a look at that intersection. I know you talked about how the seconds were I'm not overly I'm not overly convinced there and I I want some reassurances that the intersection of gun and fifty four will be sufficient. And I'm not confident Uh
and what I'm hearing today that it will be. So that's not a hit on you. I just think who can predict in a crystal ball forty years out. It it's twenty five years out. It's very difficult, but Seeing real life what we all live in, traveling across this county, real life today, post COVID, boom, everybody's moved here. We're stuck everywhere you go. There's road construction everywhere. Um this is an opportunity for us to be proactive. And uh for all the folks who are living in this area, I think they that that's why everybody's
here today. I mean we received hundreds of emails um and thank you all for reaching out and emailing us and and showing up today and spending your day engaging in this process. And so as we're all going through this together, I think we need to look at the whole corridor. I mean there's a lot of money that's gonna be spent here. So That's that's that's where I'm I'm at within this within this. Project. I wouldn't I'd be okay if we continued it till we got some clarity. And we
added us more dialogue and let the residents see You know, better graphics, just like we do with the budget. Um and then come back and and talk about it. That way everybody has a thorough understanding and we're all comfortable with it. Uh we have a very expensive decision to make and our expensive decision is gonna directly impact the lives of all these folks here. So I think everybody needs for the most part needs to be in agreement. So with that I I I'd be inclined to support a continuance and get some more clarity from staff. um
on
the bigger picture
of this energy. Okay. So and I and I agree with I think continuous is the best thing to do at this point, but I want to go over some points. Um one of the things I think it's gonna this project would slow down anyway because As you heard the civil civil engineer say. Changing from two lanes to s four lanes to six lanes is going to arterial status. Mm. So I could guarantee ya if you saw two hundred and fifty emails coming, you're gonna see a lot more resistance coming through. They're gonna be in court anyway, my opinion. When you look
at let me continue. When I look at No, I want to continue first. Um When I look at um The planners. They should be involved with us directly to see if we are in that situation. Are we going against the comp plan? As transportation, you're not gonna know that? You're not gonna know that. We need an expert to know and and that probably would have slowed this thing down. Worth worthy discussion. from the building price and I frankly don't like the the way it's listed as preferred.
As far as the alternative. I think it's a very, very bad way to go. You could say suggested, latest proposed, something like that, but preferred is the wrong language to use. It sends the wrong message. Because it's preferred by who? When I look at 191 million to one hundred and forty two million
Uh Ridge Road. Long project, 23 years to go through the process. A lot of things happen in that. Even CSX, the latest $225 million, building a solid bridge as opposed to the bridge we're gonna go build. That road project, the final phase is the most expensive phase. It should have been the cheapest. I don't know how we're paying for that. Never mind how we're gonna pay for this. So to go spend a hundred and of let's say fifty million dollars extra on the case that maybe the Turnpike Authority, who has not been our best friend and has not
been the most easy to plan with every step of the way, to let them go determine what's gonna happen to this neighborhood if something's gonna happen, is a tough change. And something I didn't think about, one lady mentioned about what with The way this h whole area's changed was brought up once before Way back when Commissioner Starkey was When we designated all the employment centers around the county, we picked all the interchanges. This is one of them that was supposed to stay with commercial all the way in the corner. And then when this section here was brought in, if we had all this development was going to come
in, we need density, we need density, we need density. I said we need jobs, and we brought the density in. Well that residential part is really making this a lot more dangerous to that south part of this whole complex. So that push, getting that approved, was a big detriment to this whole area, my opinion. And that's why I fought against it. Um When I look at alternate A it makes a lot of sense. If we have Amazon trucks that have now been approved to come in there If we do put the Amazon. Uh interchange and and Amazon You get a driver that's driving? And where do you think they're gonna turn
if you've got a backpath? They're gonna drive right up and right through these neighborhoods with these trucks. And you we've seen them, they come all come everywhere. Um they're just gonna find their easiest path and those trucks are gonna make it very dangerous for the community. You got those big trucks that don't make any sounds, guess what? Some kid doesn't hear it, looks both ways, didn't see it, bam. We don't we don't want to deal with that. When I look at talking about safe and walkable, this goes completely against that. And here's something. We're talking about quality of life, right? That's what we try to do, is make uh citizens' quality of
life better. We haven't even done the noise studies or the for the sound barriers that we're gonna probably need out there. Do you think we should see what those barriers need to be to protect these people from the noise? Because noise pollution is a bad it's a bad thing for quality of life. Um So back to the Turnpike Authority, they should be at the table with you. If we're gonna look up talk about a plan that's gonna go somewhere six lanes anywhere and have an interchange, that should be factored in now. So when I do my planning, I get it programmed ahead of time and at least the people that live
there will know what's coming. Just like a comprehensive plan, just like these master plans that they signed up for was supposed to be a s a simple collector route. All that's got to be looked at. We're not ready for that. Um No costs available. You can't know the cost what they're gonna be in in 15 years anyway, but you don't even know what the costs are now to go take and build the bridge. And frankly, it's fifty million dollars more to get ready for what what what you might use or might not. And frankly, if I got to go take fifty million dollars, the first thing I'd probably want to do
is fix that gun interchange right there, and I'd want to go build the rest of Sun Lake, because that will immediately relieve traffic all the way through. Um And we gotta watch the density we're putting out everywhere. You keep on putting density, you're gonna get more and more traffic. That's not gonna change. So with all that said, I think we need to continue this thing. Get it to where you can do more research with turnpike, you can get your numbers together, you can show us the map that shows clearly the sixth lane where it's gonna be. So when looking at a preferred alternative, we can see what it is. But
clearly we're not ready and I'll tell you the people are engaged. I've never seen so many emails so quickly. That tells you that these people who are very intelligent, very smart, very caring about what they bought into. We're changing all that, and I think if we're going to do that, we need to do it through at least another public meeting with the people, but you need to do more research too, so that you can actually show them exactly what they're gonna get.
Mr. Yeager. Yeah. Is there any way before we if everyone as a you know a board the board decides to continue it, um you could get with F Dot to see where they're where they are with Gun? Expanding gun.
I I can ask but uh as I know right now they don't have any plans to improve it in the near future, but I I can uh research that might further.
And then maybe you know as a you know We could just put maybe move it on our priority list, you know, for the MPO. I don't know w how you guys feel about that, but to make that connection. I mean even if we don't even L let's say it just is four lanes with no no interchange, it would be nice to have that gun highway connection. So
Commissioner Starkey.
Can
I speak to the engineer and y'all? Um On Gunn Highway it is a two lane divided now, right? Four lane divided.
Correct.
So it is a four-lane divided. Um Is there a light at Lake Point?
Yes.
So people who I mean I drive this area all the time. I might gun in fifty four. Um if if you're coming off the Sun Coast and and And going south on gun because maybe you're heading to Lowe's? I don't know. You're heading into Hillsborough County? To go through that intersection.
Probably turning right or I mean the traffic or or going through to go to Starkey Boulevard you'd stay on Rangeland so I I know I saw that became a problem With the interchange. And without some other relievers it could stack. But d how bad is it? Without the interchange.
I think it's a good thing. Commissioner, I think that's a good point. The the traffic where where it's really a concern is a twenty fifty with the interchange. Now under any any conditions that that intersection itself is already at a deficient level of service. The failing movement, I believe, is the the left turn, is it southbound left turn onto State Road 54? Is that the one that So that's the what the the reason that this is is basically this is not part of the study limits. So the improvements to this intersection, we're not making an opinion, we're not saying that they're not warranted. That's
definitely something that that is that could be benefit to the county independent of this project, but any any study has to have a begin and an end limit because otherwise the domino effect would take you all over the the county's roadway network. So the as when when we evaluated it for traffic we looked beyond just the limits of the improvements that we're considering and we considered the effect on the whole network and that's that's when we identified that that left turn movement would need to be improved. It could just be one of those things where you'd have to develop dual lefts in order to allow more cars to to uh make the same cycle. But that would be a separate uh
separate consideration because the state would have to be directly involved in that consideration because they're saying
left on Done highway onto State Road fifty four? Is that what you're saying? Heading east on fifty four?
I believe it's the southbound uh it would have been southbound to to uh eastbound movement. Uh our traffic engineer who did the traffic studies here.
Can you explain this? Thank you.
Yeah, my name is Fatih Abdullah, I'm a traffic engineer. I was kissy. Yeah, Gun Highway is uh near capacity now and even with the no build alternative, it will uh turn into level of service F which is a failing level of service. So gun highway need to be gun highway intersection with fifty four need to be fixed regardless of the project. Of course our project will bring more traffic to Gun Highway uh at fifty four and and wo and it's not only the project, it's the development in the area will bring more traffic to those intersections
and Gunn Highway intersection is one of the busiest intersection in the area there.
Okay and and um which so I was having a trouble understanding which way he was saying is the stacking problem now.
Yeah, if I can look at the for example the Nobel alternative uh level of surface analysis there, which is the capacity analysis at the intersection. I see uh the eastbound is is having significant delays, uh over a hundred
through.
Eastbound uh through
eastbound on fifty on fifty four.
Yes. Yeah but if going through
an alternate road. there wouldn't be as many people on there. At gun in fifty four.
If we have what, sorry?
If we had rangeland, there would be less traffic on fifty four.
Yes, yes, yes. On the uh alternative. Yes. Yes. That that is correct. So for example, that specific movement I just mentioned. It goes from one. One forty second delay to one twenty second delay. So we have less uh congestion uh when we add the range land.
Okay.
So um then and then we have the light at Lake Point. So I I'm thinking of traffic coming back at the end of the day. Um
they can come down Lake Point and turn right on fifty four and not and go through gun, not turn on gun, not stack on gun. They can Come down Lake Point, then come down Cattle Gap.
Whatever
this next road is that comes between Lake Point and Cattle Gap. Um so there's a lot of ways to get to fifty four besides Gun and Fifty Four. That's kind of what I was thinking.
As you go along Rangeland Boulevard away from the Sun Coast, in the alternatives that we looked at with an interchange, that you see that the traffic drops off as you go past all those other side roads. So there there is there there would be there would be traffic that could take any of those and it and it's modeled that way. uh the but the condition that that is currently existing where there isn't enough capacity at gun highway is is that intersection alone would would still need to be considered for improvements because even under the no-bill condition that that's still uh a traffic
issue.
Well I I I'm a little frustrated that we're letting we just had Lowe's come in And um those businesses on the upper corners If we knew we were running into trouble there, why did we not take that into account before we approved those site plans if we need if we needed something? So that's shame on us there. I mean, is one one one of our departments not talking to the other? If we needed to put in another lane? Is that what w no, Panna? Uh Terry? 'Cause
so like you said, planners
Yeah. Nectarius Pito's planning development and economic growth. The question on Lowe's was that it was a Euclidean rezoning at that time. So it were it was not possible to Uh mandate some kind of condition on them to fix something.
Is that a rule that we have? Ourselves with Euclidean? Is that something we need to fix?
a straight rezoning.
But
The site plan should have re required it. And I believe
that they did build
they did they dedicated right of way when that lows came in on highway.
They they built the north side. The right turn lanes on the southbound side, I believe. There's there's
a
dedicated
There's a dedicated turn lane coming eastbound on fifty four and there's also southbound going a dedicated turn lane.
Okay, so so we don't need in improvements again? And fifty four?
Well to get from level service F to a better level of service, yeah, you need to make some improvements. Now we we have to look into where those improvements have to go to be the most efficient uh operation. Um Fadi just mentioned that it's the South to East movement that's failing.
But rainstan would help help that. that.
Yes. Yes. And uh so yeah, that so uh and that's what I said earlier this morning that between the no built and the built alternative A Which is what we actually recommend in here. aside the future six lanes between South Branch and uh uh the roundabout. the difference in level of service at that particular intersection is minimal. between not built and alternative way. We have no major impact on that intersection with alternative A. Now,
when we build the interchange, then yes. that will have to be addressed and we will have to have major improvements. So that's number one. Number two Today we are not asking you to approve the interchange or the widening of Rangeland Boulevard to six lanes. So the discussions about amending the comprehensive plan and all those. are for a future action. Okay. Today we're asking you to approve the four laning of Rangeland Boulevard as
proposed in the preferred alternative.
All right, and the um and if we if so right now we're just reserving land We're being we're being prudent and fiscally minded by reserving land in case it's needed. We may never need it. That's what we did on Trouble Creek. If you look at at Starkey Boulevard and uh River R River Ridge Boulevard and it stands onto Trouble Creek, we have Saved land in case we ever needed to widen it. I don't and then we need to have the discussion if we're not gonna
widen it, but Um to come back after we've built a road and try and buy land after the roads already built. That's not good use of taxpayers' money. And Commissioner, what I wanted to say was if if Six Lanes is an arterial road. It's not in the neighborhood. It's from the Sun Coast to the Rampa. That's not that's not in the neighborhood.
Please
So uh that's different than a six lane going through the neighbors. But it goes goes from the Sun Coast to the roundabout, correct?
Correct.
It does not continue You guys you have to be quiet. Am I s am I saying something wrong? Is it going from the I need the professional
branch which is west of uh the Sun Coast.
The Sun Coast
The entrance to s uh the preserve to uh the roundabout, yes.
And that's to get your turn lanes in. Yeah.
On and off the ramp.
Correct. Yes.
Alright, so Gun Highway is Gun and 54 is worse without rangeland. And um The sixth lane. It's not in the community. From the Sun Coast to the roundabout.
Who owns the property
themselves? Please, not from the audience.
So I'm I'm comfortable with with moving forward. I think it's the prudent civic thing for us to do. This is a road for the whole county. It's important to the whole county. It's been planned. Forever and I think you guys have done a a great job in calming traffic, making it safer for pedestrians.
Commissioner Weightman.
I'm perplexed. That the intersection of gun of fifty four is not part of the study yet. It was part of our conversation when we briefed a number of months back. I know there's a big there's limits to the beginning and the end, but this intersection is is paramount. Um if it's not being incorporated in the study Not overly I I I think it needs to be incorporated within the study before we make make the d the decision. Um it it needs to coincide with the decision
of of what we do with this this project. So I don't know what it takes to incorporate or merge the two studies or whoever's working on this whoever the expert is on this intersection and and tie it in with this project. But I I think that's prudent to happen and I think We need to hear You know. when we reconvene and talk about it, that it's it's it's a clearer picture. Um there's been a lot of back and forth. On this intersection, I felt s some of the dialogue was a bit
contradictory. Uh I know 'cause you guys are it's on the fly. But I'd like to see something a little more concrete. So I I again I'm I'm more comfortable with Continuing it not for a long time, next board meeting here on the west side. Maybe. Um and making sure that we have All the pieces of this project looked at dissected more clearly. Um And I mean we're talking twenty five years, so what's a few more weeks, right? So
I I I'm comfortable continuing for a short period of time. Mr. Chairman M
if I may have to be a good question.
Mr.
Steinner. So
The board is entitled to any information they think is necessary to make a decision. I just want to point out that the study that is being proposed for your approval is a route study for the alignment of Rangeland Boulevard. and the pawns that would have to go with it. So It would not be
It would not be something that you would have the intersection of 54 and gun as part of that study. Now. They can bring you back that information. to help you make the decision of the of the alignment or the capacity of rangeland, but The the analysis that we need for condemnation, we need to go forward and build rangeland. is
the study that is being presented to you.
However, the problem with what we're looking at is the alternatives we've got, some of them are gonna accommodate for a six lane or an interchange, which we may not want to do. That's not factored in here. So with that This interchange I think is important to look at, and I also think That subject f separate from this exact study. But we gotta go look at Sun Lake and what the effects are gonna be there. And and put the cost analysis what it's gonna be there. Because that's an immediate effect that doesn't even affect anybody. No
there's no downtown. That road can be built like nothing. It's already there, ready to go. So I think by looking at this, we should be looking number one, let's go look at what was spent on a ridge road. Right, 'cause we don't know. We've all been briefed and and guess what? I was like Say where's that money coming from? And they're just ready to keep on going. They're ready to keep on going here. Somebody better fix this. We better fix that at at Gunn. We better go look at finishing Sun Lake and then go look at it. I don't think it can be done by the next board meeting. You've got to I think they've got
to take Go put their cost numbers together. Once they put that together, then call for the meeting with the residents and then come back with a plan what they're gonna go do and at least be able to show us a map to what what what we're literally proposing for all the alternatives that are gonna come forward. And certainly we need to change the name of preferred to a
Mr. Champion?
Commissioner Starkey.
I'd like to make a motion to approve the uh staff's recommendation.
I'm making a motion to approve what staff has recommended. Only on The alternative A. Route steady.
The preferred alternative or alternative A?
Yes.
Which one?
It's about a second now. Okay.
Any further discussion? I'm just gonna say I think we should definitely continue it. Uh we need to spend the time to do the research. We don't have it. And to throw fifty more million dollars when we may not even need it or want it. Um Especially not looking at the other improvements, not even knowing what the financial costs are gonna be to put the pen in place. I'll call for the vote.
I'll make a motion to continue.
So There is a move, a motion to approve. A alternative preferred alternative A. Well how was that? The preferred alternative is what it's called. So motion to approve alternative. with the referral alternative. All in favor say aye.
Aye. Aye.
Any opposed? Yeah. Notice three two fails. All right, now now for
motion to continue is appropriate.
Alright, so I'll make a motion to continue and also with the information from the gun highway reaching Rangeland and also one other neighborhood meeting.
Thanks. Sorry. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. Okay. Motion passes three, two. Thank you. Okay.
And I assume that's at the at that's at the administrator's discretion when that is brought back. So the
administrator is gonna ask the questions.
On this continuance, one, um, you know, Commissioner Mariano, I hear what you're saying several months. What what exactly would the board like us to do? I've made notes on Gun Highway, I've made notes on cost analysis, I've made notes on an additional community meeting. Um Which we we certainly can do. The the community meeting piece will will essentially be the same alternatives, but you'll you'll have the information before you. So I I do need some clarification on your
expectations.
You when you put all the information together and you have the public meeting at your discretion when you bring it back.
Okay.
Part of this should come back with if we're gonna do part A. which does rangeland, which I think helps relieve fifty four and possibly gun high somewhat. I think that should be part of it. And then the second part should be, you know, as you go forward uh what you need to do at gun highway and and other areas. But you've got to realize that Part A is gonna help pitch forward in gun highway at the beginning. And
then what you need to do after that.
And I I just have a comment that I encourage um my fellow teammates to come to the meeting, the next meeting for the road, since it is so so you can talk to the residents and discuss all the options while we're there.
It'll have to be one on one if you have sunshine you gotta worry about.
No, I'm talking about the neighborhood meeting.
I know. Yeah, but you can't all be there. You you can be you'd have to
the
commissioner is Right,
obviously. Yeah,
yeah.