miscellaneous business appointments built-to-rent discussion
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What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 8m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 91% of 289 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
I abstain. Okay. That brings us to miscellaneous business. Uh Commissioner Oakley. Well get on that quick, don't I?
That's
today.
Um uh my first thing on my uh list here, I've I'd like to reappoint Jean Nathy to the Commission on Status of Women. Her first appointed uh she was first appointed in December 10th, 2019 and has expired. Okay. So I'll make that motion now. Motion we have a second.
Okay. And roll call vote.
District one, Commissioner Oakley. District two, Commissioner Weightman.
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford. Aye. District five, Chairman Mariano.
Aye. Okay, the next item I have, uh Probably you're you're aware of all the tree cutting and all that because we our facilities department had taken down a couple of trees off the property and yesterday and today the city of Dade City are taking two big trees down here on the the west side next to uh 7th Street. And they're doing that and taking it down. But something of very much importance that started yesterday is
the people showed up to start looking at the electrical lighting and the placement of the fallen officer memorial and that's going on as we speak today too. So it takes about I first heard it took about ninety days to complete, so without any delays and also three or four months we hope See that memorial out on the uh front line on the corner next to uh Meridian and 7th Street. Looking forward to that. Yeah, it's been a long wait. The many
people have been waiting like nine years to get that done. So Well your your help and uh
contributions are greatly appreciated. So thank you for that.
Yeah. So we have a lot of citizens that look forward to that being placed there. So support of our law enforcement.
No sir. Okay. That's all? That's all. Okay. Commissioner Starkey.
Wow. So fast. Um so I have one photo to share. I was uh uh excited to go to my first inauguration. I've been invited before, but I've never gone, so um uh and I wasn't able to get a seat, unlike the president of Publix and the Speaker of the House. So uh that's my friend Sarah and I. Um And I ran into a lot of legislators, so I was able to do some lobbying um while they are on certain things, so that's good. Um
I did um wanna mention that um Uh um okay you can take that pleasure. Thank you. Uh you know we have this boat cover lawsuit going on. I I uh went by boat to um the Hudson Marina yesterday for lunch. And I saw some new illegal comers and I was kinda wondering where the lawsuit is on that. Um if you had it off the top of your head.
Um we are about to respond to their initial pleadings.
I I bring it up because um uh I have friends who are commissioners in those counties that were affected by the hurricane and I was told that those covers Jack you can investigate this, that they became missiles and damaged nearby boats. One one home one boat owner had to go out in the middle of the hurricane and retie his boat because the metal punched through his
boat and put a hole in it and start to sink. And it cost him $25,000 worth of damage to his boat that he has to pay for. Because um when it's an act of God uh then your homeowners insurance doesn't kick in. And and we saw this in Gulf Harbor's when we had some some uh little tornadoes come through and someone's porch roof came off and damaged the roofs on my street, two, three blocks away, the homeowners whose roofs were damaged by their
um screen porch They had they had to eat the cost, the homeowners. And so um even those boat covers that are illegal um cause damage to nearby properties. So just wanted to bring that up. Um also I'm getting emails on short-term rentals and I know it's been a a bear to tackle, but I think we have to face the music and do something uh because we have thousands and thousands and thousands of short-term rentals in the county and um
that are unregulated because we just kind of turn a blind side to them. So um Commissioner Yeah Chairman Mari suggest that sometime this year we we have a workshop I talk to the administrator about this uh and deal with the bear in the room of short term rentals. And uh
if I couldn't Madam Commissioner Starkey? Maybe maybe we can even just do it on a regular agenda item that comes up and a lighter agenda coming up that we can actually have a discussion on it and Allow a certain amount of time where we what do we need uh. How everyone
do it, but I I think you know, I tried to tackle it when I was chair of the T C. Uh you know, it's it's kind of strange. We col we try and collect all the money, um, the bed tax, but it's illegal. So we're just in this. area that we shouldn't be in. And
I think we
might we need to do it right.
And I think with two new commissions a it's a good discussion to have to get fully vetted on it as well.
And then I drove down forty one um the other day and uh I think I saw some new um vehicle storage facilities that weren't there previously and I just wanna say, you know, we passed that we did that moratorium and we passed the rules on the um dealerships and and we we need to get a handle on this and I I don't know how we're going to go back and enforce that, but we need to have a
plan. It may have to wait till next year's budget, but somewhere we have to start addressing the um illegal used car dealerships and storage facilities. Thank you.
Uh Commission Bradford.
I have a couple of uh Items Mr. Chair. First one's the appointment. of Kaylee Cooney to the Pasco County Library Advisory Board, or reappointment I should say. After speaking with uh Kaylee the other day, she's obviously very passionate about the public library system. And she's gauged on their board right now and she wants to continue in that board. So we're gonna reappoint her. I guess we need a roll call
vote for that or something.
Do a motion second? Second. Motion? Okay, and then we have a second. Uh now roll call vote.
District one, Commissioner Oakley. District two, Commissioner Weightman.
District three, uh Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.
Aye.
District five, Commissioner Mariano.
Aye.
Second item is also an appointment. It's to the Rod Lincoln to the Rod Lincoln to the Village of Pasadena Hills Planning and Policy Committee. I wish thank you. I wish to uh reappoint Ron to the V O P H Planning and Policy Committee. Ron's experience and specialized knowledge has been a great asset and I'm convinced he will continue to serve the community well. So I'd like
to renominate him to serve on that.
Okay.
Motion of the second roll call?
Yep.
District One, Commissioner Oakley. District two, Commissioner Weightman.
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.
Aye.
District five, Chairman Mariano.
Aye. Okay, one more appointment. Appointment of Sandy Graves to the Commission on the Status of Women.
Second.
I w You all know Sandy. Everybody knows Sandy. So anyway, Sandy Graves is my pick for the uh for the status of uh Commissioner Starkey Women. So
Yeah. Motion and second. Roll call?
District One, Commissioner Oakley.
Aye.
District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford. Aye. District five, uh Chairman Mariano.
Aye. I guess uh the last one is uh congratulations. We got a couple of pictures to put up.
What is it? We do? What's two pictures? There we go. Oh there you go. There we go. That's station twenty, the groundbreaking for station twenty. Uh
Commissioner Oakley and the Chair. And myself were there. That's my first time speaking at the podium in the dirt. That was uh my first round breaking. That was good. Good for me. And uh got wise advice from uh Commissioner Oakley. He says don't screw it up. So uh so I didn't. I didn't say that. And uh so it was uh It I did want to though, uh I wanted to thank
all the past commissioners for getting this funded and approved. It looks like it's gonna it's gonna be a great design and it's gonna serve the citizens of Pasco County.
What where is that one looking at?
Uh Uh if you go to um Shady Hills Road on fifty two, take a right, going down. a couple miles or so and internal little ranch road. The old station's right there, it's only two bay.
Okay.
This new station, 20, will be uh four bay. Wow and the each bay is 90 feet long so they could hold um up to eight large fire trucks uh parked back to back. Nice. So I mean I just want to add that part to it.
Absolutely. And I've got the report. I've got the pleasure of uh I'll be doing my first get in the fire truck, uh spending a uh uh shift with them. Um It's on the calendar, so I'm gonna get in the trucks and do what I said I was gonna do when I got elected spike out. all the all the jobs that uh the men and women And our government do. So I'm gonna get in that fire truck. So I'd just like to thank everybody for being a part of that. But Commissioner Starkey again?
Um yes, I forgot something. Are you done? I don't want to take you to
the I am done, ma'am.
I f I forgot to mention and you'll hear about it again, that um the international committee at of the PEDC um is gonna start an annual event called the International Day. Well there's more there's more to it, but I don't remember the full title right now. But we will be celebrating uh our companies and our international businesses in the county. Um and we will be recognizing them on February 21st in the in the at the DOCC meeting. in uh New Port Richey and
then we'll be having a reception that you'll all be invited to afterwards. We you know we we figured that the this first year will be smaller but our our hope is to build it into a you know one or two-day event um and and uh really celebrate our international ties.
Thanks, Solan. All right. Commissioner Weightman.
Thank you. That's for last right.
You got it.
Uh what? We work with Elaine Bassenger to the Friends of the Library Board. She's been a fantastic board member for a number of years and is really committed to our public library system.
Second.
Okay, then roll call vote.
District One, Commissioner Oakley.
Aye.
District two, Commissioner Weightman.
District 3, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District 4, Commissioner Bradford. Aye. District 5, Chairman Mariano.
Aye. Okay. Yeah, Commissioner?
The second topic is a discussion on the built-for end community. It's more of a policy discussion. And as I'm learning about built for it communities and what they bring into our county, I'd like to see that they have the same standards as our single family. Profession. Um Just want to make sure.
No yeah. I'm not sure. There was a member that came out last year outlining the requirements for research family and staff has recognized that the understanding of the filtering communities need to be on the same playing ground. I'm not wrong.
What's been Go back to the diet, 70 acres, when filtering maybe the single thing we follow.
Well Commissioner Weightman Grang you brought it up. Um I was talking with Commissioner O Administrator Carbella, the one give you a pake out there, Mike, um, about it just just yesterday and uh we did talk about that, so let's have a little dialogue on that if we could. Um Mike, you had some great concerns that you wanted to bring up?
I'm gonna have Terry Pitos come and speak to the matter.
Commissioner Weightman, it was a great thing to bring up today because today's a day we actually can have a good discussion without having to worry about what's coming up for a time clock. So Mr. Pitos.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Victorious Pitos, Planning and Development Department. Um so yes, last year the Board of County Commissioners worked with the development community to craft a memo. a policy memo that would direct uh staff to include conditions of approval within a uh master plan unit development zoning district That would regulate the appearance of or at least establish architectural
monotony controls for single-family detached houses. And this was particularly related to the case for the, if you recall, the 40-foot-wide lots that are often proposed, and also the 50-foot-wide lots. In any event, we established the criteria in hand with. Developer with the development community brought it forward to the Board of County Commissioners, and some adjustments were made by the various uh commissioners, and then we issued that memorandum. And since
uh I would say March, March or April of last year, we've been uh implementing those conditions of approval in the MPUDs. Um, then there was a discussion at the office. August 24 Board of County Commissioners meeting, 2022, in which I think was one of the first times that the bill to rent question was ri rose from the dais. And so a similar
m draft memo has been worked on since then to begin to address the following subjects. Create a definition for what built-to-rent is, establish similar architectural and monotony controls For that build-to-rent product, because at the end of the day, a build-to-rent product is essentially a small single-family home, usually maybe 1200
square feet in size. But it's an individual unit, just very closely spaced with all the other units on the same property. Um so establishing similar architectural monotony controls as we did with the single-family detached units for the forty-foot-wide lots um include site planning principles, how to establish uh a BTR in you know, how should it be designed essentially from a horizontal layout. Established landscaping
principles, uh what kind of landscaping do we need to see in a BTR so that it's not just, you know, clumps of small uh housing units and then parking lots. And then um how it'll be applicable to MPUDs and conditional use permits uh that might be issued for uh a built-arent community and uh applicability in Euclidean rezoning as well. And so that's kind of the draft memo. That was put together
back in August, September. of twenty twenty-two. Um since I think about November the memo was has been shared with a few uh stakeholders in the development community. Um I I have received some comments back um but there is some anticipation that this memo is gonna have additional conversation. And here we are.
So uh Commissioner Oakley. Yeah, I I think I brought that along because I live in a uh estates of Fort King right now. There are fifty foot lots and parking issues, landscape issues, I mean, and are the houses up to speed for requirements for single family homes. 'Cause the worry is, it's not necessary now, but fifteen, twenty years from now, what are these homes gonna look like? And are they gonna end up a blighted area? Because they're rental homes. and no one's
pretty much taking care of it. So what What do we charge that rental company or those owners to take care of in the future so it doesn't become blighted? So I think it's very important on that issue. Also think we need to look at just 40 and 50 foot lots in general that are not just for rent, but also those homes. We've got a lot in the flow that's coming to us, if we're not careful, we'll look like the back streets of
uh city of New York and places of that nature. We don't wanna look like that. So we do want space. And we're gonna get a point we'll be saturated with these forty and fifty foot lots. and they're not affordable homes. So we need to pay attention to what we're doing in the future so we don't make them all like that. So I don't think our county needs that.
You know, Commissioner Oakley is a great great comment too that because I tell you driving in today, I specifically drove a different w way where I can actually drive by a place that does have the forty and fifty foot loss. Just driving down the side. So a series of homes and on it there were three vehicles parked on the street that couldn't have room in the driveway. It's gonna be a continual problem.
Right.
Um I know we got at least one coming up today to hear to hear as well, but I I think we should look at eliminate the forty and fifties. Uh we need to make sure the driveway length is gonna be appropriate for a couple of cars to fit in because let's face it, family starts out, kids get cars, there's no room, and uh the intensity of a neighborhood where you don't have room to park or the kids can't have a a place to ride their bike safely because you gotta truck blocking it from a sidewalk going by. Uh it it is something that's a big problem and what type of county
do we want to be? We we suffer right now in Regency Park and let's say embassy where you've got homes that were built for small retired couples and now you've got families that have moved in. And you can look at the yards that I have cars parked in the yard way 'cause there's nowhere else to go and it just is not what we want to see. So I I think this commission Uh especially with two new board members it's time to like say, okay, what do we want to see for the long term. And and Mike, as you mentioned, oh as Commissioner Oakley just did, what happens in a few years? Let's say this rental
community goes downhill and someone flips it to somebody else and all of a sudden they're not taking care of it anymore. Uh or if they w if they want to go flip and go back to a Now they're gonna go start selling the homes to convert 'em over, which they could do. Um the great thing is as far as having controls in there, the rental community maintaining it, but what happens if it doesn't like an HOA doesn't have deed restrictions anymore? We've seen what that does to neighborhoods.
Yeah. Uh good, Commissioner Weightman.
Wait. Sorry, thank you, thank you. Sorry for the interruption, Commissioner Starkey. The the issue is with you know our due diligence and Commissioner Oakley spot on in uh his comments. With this with the bill of rents that are under common ownership. So they're treated, you know, they're managed as multifamily. So there's not any in the houses that are going there are not flatted. So really the women it's the ability the ability of the of the investment firm
whoever
on their own business model, so Monsieur.
Good code. Commissioner Starkey.
I've just started um asking more in depth um about this subject and restrictions, and I'm gonna a hundred percent support the architectural requirements. Um also uh I'm looking at the next metro. product that's at 54 in the Sun Coast. And I don't know how they met the tree requirements. Um and and so what so do we do we allow them to just wipe out all the trees and pay into
the tree mitigation trust fund? I I don't know that that's such a good thing. So I agree that we have to have some minimum landscaping requirements. But As far as platting and unplatting, um when I talked to my son this morning who um
Is pretty smart guy as far as real estate goes. He said we are better protected. In these when they're unplatted, because it's under single ownership and therefore it's one company managing everything. When you have um companies like BlackRock and these other other ones that came into the county and bought up hundreds of homes in all these different neighborhoods, it's a nightmare for us to hold them accountable for each individual home's
upkeep. although I think we need we c I wanna talk to you about getting the rental registry back under our purview. Um but in a un in a bill for rent when they're unplatted, it's my husband was calling them a deconstructed apartment complex. Um and so uh I think we're safe for having them unplatted. Um Uh we have one coming up this afternoon that's a little different
animal with American homes for rent because they are building single family single family homes that look just like any neighborhood that is platted Um so Uh but they never sell. But apparently they just build their inventory and just keep them and there's a lot of money behind that company. But I agree with Commissioner Weightman. Um we we just need to make sure that these are good products that are getting
developed and our attorneys can now weigh in on on what we can do and can't do because I know there's some state law. Would these get caught up in that?
Well all I wanted to all I well what I wanted to add was you may want to think in this discussion about the infrastructure for these homes because currently the ro the streets that serve them are considered driveways or and parking lots like a multifamily Apartment complex.
Yeah, that's just
all park
that's just all parking.
And that's g that's going to you know, i that's i if you're if you're developing a s sort of a single family to rent community You're gonna you're you the parking issues that you've experienced in in single family projects, which has been a problem, is gonna be magnified if your widths of your of your streets is narrow Uh is even further narrow because their their driveways are not and
not meeting any kind of a street standard.
Yeah, so maybe we need some kind of matrix on parking.
Okay.
this is one of those subjects that uh I had an interest when I showed up. Uh and we have spent uh the last couple of weeks uh studying this issue, uh reading all the material that we can, uh prepared by my uh staff and so huddled in the corner and trying to read all the um memos. So I guess the question I have is today. Today, not the future, but
today. the memo that we have done, that we operate under, right? Is is that how we are approving Um projects or these discussions and revamping of the memo of understanding for the future? Is that where we're going where's where's the guide uh from our county government on what you think?
So the the existing memorandum that was uh issued back in March specifically exempted the build to rent product type because it was multifamily and that memo was specifically geared towards single family detached. So technically speaking, the the existing memo is is only Aimed at single-family detached and therefore does not apply to this multifamily product
type. However, in various conversations that we have had with developers, the question and concern has been raised about the appearance of the build torrents and the general concerns, particularly as Commissioner Starkey noted the tensions between parking and landscaping in these products, uh product types. And so they have uh acquiesced to certain types of demands and/or
cautionary statements from the planning and development department to change their products a little bit to make sure that what they build is not going to be monotonous or what what they build is going to include uh a healthy amount of landscaping, etcetera. However, there there isn't a clean directive yet to do that. It's all sort of This is what the Planning and Development Department is experiencing. These are the different uh narratives that we're hearing from the community,
from the elected officials, etc. And then the developers take account of that feedback and they make their various adjustments. But there isn't a a specific direction yet issued by the Board of County Commissioners on the PTRs.
Mr. Chair, I think the the the sooner we're able to do that and include all the different aspects of from from trees to parking to congestion of roads to the public safety response on the sooner we get this done. the better it's gonna be for our county. So I think we really need to make it a priority.
Well let's let's draw back to one one at a time. I think the the aesthetics uh is good. I don't think there should be exemption from the multifilm to the regular. Let's put the same standards in place. So we can m if you can make that available so we can talk about even l like today, that would be good. But let's let's talk about the forty and fifty foot lots. Um Clearly. the tighter compact they are, whether it be rental community or even other community. Those yards are like so small for anybody to any kids to ever play in. Never mind parking, never mind trees or any type
of landscaping going on there. And frankly If we set a standard to say we don't want to see any more forties and fifties, the market would adjust. Immediately. They're gonna say, okay, we can't we know we can't get forties and fifties, so we're not gonna overpay for land, which drives our prices, and go further. If we make a statement we're done with the forties and fifties because of all the issues they caused the worried about the blight that's gonna happen in fifteen, twenty years, then let's deal with it right now. Before you have another another approvement come before the board. Let's just
eliminate the forties and fifties. And m let's m let's move on.
I I would like you to consider this. We went to a matrix where we had percentages. I think if you're coming in with say X amount of houses, maybe you still allow a few forties because that allows for some affordability. And maybe the matrix changes for you know, let's say you have a hundred homes. you know, four or forties, twenty or fifties, and the rest are sixties or something. But if we don't allow any forties
We're gonna have a lot of people who can't afford to live here. So we should allow some.
Consider this. Consider this. If you if you put a world County wide thing of no no forties and fifties. Every Land acquisition person that's going out there to work for whatever the builder product's gonna be. They know they can only get so many units. They know that already. They're gonna then Put the value to it. Now and the market tells you units, units, units, that's what the hell go by. If you take the units and make them from forties and fifties are gone, now it's sixty plus, you're gonna make the adjustments
happen financially. So I don't think it would change his affordability. The affordability of I think a builder buying a piece of property is gonna be whatever the market's gonna bear they're gonna pay. That's where it's gonna go. What we're we're what we're I think what we're talking about is what's gonna happen in fifteen, twenty years. Like you like your reaction when I talked about Regency and Embassy, how bad it is for those families, and it's affordable housing, they're all jammed in there, but look at the yards. You got trees, trucks. I mean there's no trees, there's there's trucks and and dirt because people are parking in
the yard because they have no other way to go. So as far as affordability goes, I think you change the market if you say here's we want to be. And I can tell you of some communities I know up north, when they changed it to say we're only gonna do acre lots or two acre lots, that didn't hurt anybody.
Well an acre lot and
that would be a hundred
percent sprawl.
I'm saying up north, but uh what what I'm saying is by changing it and and and putting a standard to it, it didn't hurt the community around it.
Uh and then I want to talk about parking, but Commissioner Oakley has his hand
up. Uh you're talking about forty and fifty foot lots being affordable. They're not. Those houses are not affordable. I'm I'm in a rent own and I pay twenty four hundred dollars a month for twelve hundred square feet. It's a three bedroom, sure. There's no room. No room inside basically and no room outside. I mean your backyard's shoot probably a twenty by twenty. I mean there's no room there. There's no no place to really live. So if you're expecting people
to really live there like they do in some of our older homes that have bigger lots, it's not happening on a on that size lot. So I don't know I don't know where we find how to change that, but we can't keep doing it or we're gonna have these houses everywhere just like this No parking, no yard to play in. No landscaping, no architectural values. I mean, those have to come with it. But none of these are affordable we're
talking about. And we do need affordable.
So uh uh uh uh on the subject of affordability um and I think maybe I'll direct my staff to start looking into this a little more and some research. Um I've been talking to some of the counties and I know that um that Palm Beach County So let me back up a little bit. When we have DRIs, development of regional impacts, I don't know who here remembers what DRIs are. Ten percent of that uh if you came in with the DRI, ten percent of that had to be afford considered
affordable housing. When we went away with D R eyes. Um the the mandate to build affordable housing went away. We do have the ability to put it back in. We waive it, right? Uh uh uh every time someone comes in. Um there are counties who have put back in a matrix of say if you're coming in to build X amount of houses, five percent or whatever has to be considered affordable housing. I truly believe we need to be looking at that. And affordable
housing can come in as a as like what we did in Longleaf with ADUs as accessory dwelling units. A little apartment over a garage, you know, if it's a rear-loaded product, very easy to do. Or um Lenar has a had a whole product that they were going to bring in in Wesley Chapel that had another a little granny flat added onto the side of the house with a separate entrance. I mean there's ways to do it that that it m melts right into a community and I I think we should have that discussion.
And I'll say as far as the granny flats, that idea I I love that idea. I think it's a great idea. Um 'cause sometimes the seniors get a little bit older, they don't want to put 'em in a nursing home, they can't afford it, or just don't want to go. But if they're right night beside the family, get their own entrance or own parking spot, I think it's a great concept.
They get a little more privacy. Yeah. Or whatever. So
yeah, th th th those I'm I'm perfectly willing to work with those to get in There but again back to forty and fifty foot lots to what it's gonna be for down the road. And like you say it with affordability. We we approved a bunch of apartments we thought were gonna be affordable too. How'd that work out? People are paying through the roof.
We are getting class A apartments, not workforce housing.
Okay, so so I mean y you it's tough to control exactly what's gonna go on, but uh but bottom line is if you want to have forty and fifty foot lots around your your whole area If you think it's bad now with the residential issues that they got with parking, try to imagine being a renter. And you have no place to park and you park where your neighbor's gonna park with you or the neighbor's kid can't go by. I mean they say they say it's not gonna work out great, but The tighter you keep people, the tighter it's gonna be and when the renters get posed to homeowners, that that Combustion is is is
one of the expressions.
I I have some houses. Now these are the older houses so they're probably fifty foot, sixty foot in holiday and and elfers. I could show you a picture of one. The whole front yard of the house is car, car, truck, truck, truck, truck. There's like six of them parked across the front. It's horrible. I've got one who I think is selling cars out of their front yard. yard but they they cover them with covers. It's right next to Fasado's tax um tax office if you want to drive by there
sometime on on nineteenth so they put a cover over every car. So the whole front yard is cars with covers on them.
Yeah.
I I don't we shouldn't allow that.
Just just for an example, I'm talking in general. We have a project coming this afternoon which we'll talk about at that time. We'll discuss that at the time. But they're coming for zoning. So they don't have the zoning but the projects are 40 and pitch foot like subdivision. We're how is that already approved if we got to do the zoning after the fact? Was it approved for that project or the fact comes after we do the zoning? Because if we don't do the zoning,
they can't do that project.
Just in general.
Sorry. Uh hang on let me try to get an answer for for Mr. Oakley. So
Terry have And it can be any project, doesn't matter which one. Are they already approved for forty fifth foot lots based based on their pre application and all without zoning?
Uh no. The the approval comes with the zoning itself. So nothing proceeds unless the Board of County Commissioners approves it. What what we generally see is
Plans that illustrate feasibility. So this is what our layout can look like if we were to get this zoning approved.
Right.
So they they might come in with a concept plan, for example, or a yield plan, as it's sometimes known, in order to illustrate how many units they can fit, in order for us to be able to calculate density and then report to the board and enable the board to make the decision that the board will make. So it's it's not uh pre approval on the part of the planning and development department. Now some of these projects they do come forward with recommendations of approval because there are these are projects that Have
are similar, they have there's precedence in other words, pr previous prev from previous approvals in other places, or the projects meet land development code regulations and or are consistent with the comprehensive well, they they would have to be consistent with the comprehensive plan. Um and so based on that criteria There would be a recommendation to approve it, um, but they're not approved. Only the board can approve them. Okay.
So the so the one that came off was it Hayes Road over there with Collier, that was a project was forty and pitch foot lots. It didn't get approved, so Based on zoning, I guess. So if they would have gone to larger lots in there, that I think it would have been approved.
Yeah, that
that one was denied. Right. Right.
So
Commissioner Weightman had a question first. Let me get to him first. Commissioner Weightman?
Oh yeah.
Like. I so I don't I don't know what that If I need a makeup
Then later.
So let me
that's a county administration.
Yeah, I was gonna say let me let me speak to that if I if I could and thank you very much, Commissioner. So I think it's important to know that that the Planning and Development Department has been leaning forward on this, both in terms of of working with developers in the absence of of formal rules. So you know kudos, kudos to them for for doing that. I think we continue to work on this memo. We I hear it, it's a it's a priority. So we we accept Accelerate that. It's important that we talk to industry about some of the issues that have been raised today because we do want to have at least try to build a consensus on that. I mean, I I I don't want to throw a
timeline out there, but but I understand. Next board meeting is probably too soon, but perhaps the next board meeting after that, we could probably have some things that are gelled enough that we're we're ready to have a discussion based on what we've heard today. Community aesthetics, and as Mr. Steinsnyder points out, having infrastructure in place is really the key because we can't go back in and build the roads, the sewers, and and and the size and and character of the neighborhood after the fact. And if if really what the point of this policy is to uh at some future date
should should this become a blighted how do you how do you reverse that and it's much easier to reverse that with the infrastructure in in place and so whether we plat or not to plat 40 foot lots, 50 foot lots, we can have those discussions. But I think I think the important thing is the aesthetics and and the infrastructure that that are in play and and some guidelines so as these communities develop we can try to find a win-win. So it'd be my suggestion that Maybe let's let planning and development continue their process. We'll accelerate based on the feedback we've we've gotten here today and we'll we'll
sit with you individually maybe in two to three weeks on what we have found out and then figure out what our next steps are. Okay. I got
Mr Starkey. I got two things I want to say. Um one on the forties, fifties, sixties. Um
So and I know we're doing a a a revised a revision uh but I wonder if it's inappropriate to put forties outside of where we wanted to direct density to. Seems to me it would be. And are have we been approving forty foot lots where maybe We're not trying to have it v real dense. So, um, you know, fifty four corridors where U L I said to put density. Um we
we did for political reasons I think expand those some of those zones up the uh different highways a little bit. But that's where we said we wanted density, but maybe we don't need forty foot in other places. So that's one. And two, uh when I brought this up to my son, and it's funny because I've had this discussion with Terry and with s with other people, um, he's like, you need to go to a form-based code. And I am gonna tell you, I think our staff would love if we moved to a form-based
code. And Terry, you and I have had that discussion and um can you describe what that is so that the other commissioners can know what that what that is and think would make everyone's life easier?
So a phone based code I'm gonna try to condense a lot in just a few short words. Uh a form-based code is a code that is more concerned with the f the form of the building, the how much mass it takes up along a street frontage, for example, um, versus the use that is on site. And in a form based code you're more prescriptive in terms of the design of the building
in and saying that the building has to be yay high, sit on a lot so m by su so wide, must be set back or built to a particular line, um, and Those are the some very basic features of a forum-based code. And then what ends up moving into the building, and this is mostly true for like non-residential structures, but what ends up moving into the building is secondary of of secondary concern. Um generally. Now there's different degrees
of form-based codes, um, but the the real key thing about a form-based code is that it is extremely predictable. Everybody can uh envision what a particular neighborhood or a particular street will up look like. Developers know exactly what the municipality or the jurisdiction is looking for. The community knows what to expect, um, and the government knows. What uh is ultimately going to get approved or not approved. And so you're
much more easily uh you're you're able to move through the process a lot faster as a result of that, generally speaking, perform based codes. So there's a there's a performative uh advantage to a foreign based code as well.
Brad, would you add anything to that? 'Cause I know you and I I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but I know you and I have talked about it too. I've talked about it with Terry and I've talked about it with you.
Yeah, it's hi uh Brad Tippen uh Planning Development. Uh I I just reiterate what Terry said and and just kind of the emphasis there is that instead of us regulating what use goes in what place, we're regulating the performance standards. You can put something there as long as you know it's not making excessive noise for the neighbors, as long you know, you set those standards, and then it doesn't matter what use goes there. Uh and you focus on the design features and what you want the area to look like and as long as they can meet that they can essentially do whatever they want to
do inside the building. It takes a layer of of the problems that we have trying to coordinate that out. It creates very much so creates a predictable uh design for people that are purchasing properties, uh predictable designs for uh you know people that are developing properties, uh, and eases the the review process pretty substantially.
Someone told me that Pinellas County just used form-based code in their new plan for Palm Harbor.
Mm.
And that's a big success. I don't remember who told me that. Yeah,
I I don't have the details on it, but that I've heard that as well. That the the form based code has been used in various parts of Penellas County. And other parts of Florida of course.
Yeah. And my brother in law, Frank Starkey, he's been advocating for that for a long time. So throwing that out there. I think it's a very good for us to consider looking at that.
It's probably not a bad conversation, but something that concerns me a little bit is sometimes sometimes you may have some code issues when you talk about noise.
Well you could put
it
in the right-of-way.
It's hard enough to get a loud bar playing music at a certain time to get someone to go out there with the decibels of saying, Okay, it's too loud. Turn the music down, put something on, they leave, they gotta go put it back on again. So to try to have code trying to m monitor that, I think is gonna be difficult. The other the other factor you may come across is let's say you're gonna allow a business to go into where normally be kind of more residential and it maybe it starts out to be a smaller business and all of a sudden you get semi trucks dropping off supplies. Who's gonna monitor that? So I think it's a it's still
gonna be difficult to make that go away. I think you might just create your n another set of problems. I think when we have setbacks, when you have allowances how long a driveway would be, some some tolerances to that, sight lines that we sometimes have out there. If you need to look at those closer, so be it. But I I'm willing to have the discussion, but I want to caution you. There are there are things that you just can't say, well it could could put anything there. And I an an example of one that worked. Well, as you could drive into Fox Hollow Golf Club. On
the left hand side. There's an industrial building that's there doing work. Heavy duty commercial. It was set up that way at the start of the MPD. Everybody knew it was gonna be there. and I've yet to see a single thing of any negativity from that building. So that one actually did work, so it could work. You know Dr. Gills, Lou Friedland, et cetera. They they built Fox Hollow with that guy in mind and that thing was set up there. Haven't seen a problem, never heard of never heard of any any issues with that. So it could work. But
Again.
You hit the nail on the head. That that is the the main concern that you you hear with this type of of zoning and this this type of review that we would do. However, that's where the performance standards come into play. We we articulate the performance standards. For example, all work has to occur indoors, uh you know, certain number of trips that can be generated, types of trips that can be generated, uh those types of things you can do in performance. standards that if they're not meeting the performance standards you can shut them down. So it it creates a different different level so it's not somebody standing out there with a decibel meter you know on the roadside
that's very difficult to do right now. But it does create you can create some some performance standards uh in different communities. They can decide for different areas based on what that area is meant to be. If there's something that's a little less residential going in a little more residential area, you can change those performance standards a little bit. Uh so you can end up uh kind of handling a lot of that stuff uh so that it doesn't become the issue. Um it's it's a kind of a complex thing to think about, uh but we can certainly uh you know, if if you'd like to know more about it, we can sit down and talk about some of those details.
I think we should have someone come in and educate us that is very knowledgeable and show some examples of form-based code. I know in my discussions with planning gap that make their life a lot easier. And I've heard that from people in the development community. It's Uh I think it might be a very good thing.
I mean I wouldn't mind looking at it. I know connected cities, one of the things we tried to work on when they were coming in, you wanted to have a business that could start in an area. run the business in that residential area, depending on what it was. I haven't heard a complaint from connected cities, anything going on in there, so maybe it worked there and maybe we can look at that as a model to go further where they could then grow in their business and um I know it was early in the stages, but again I haven't heard a negative thing in in anyone in anyone in connected cities that's you know taken that approach yet. So,
that was Connected City we did kind of try to do that. It was kind of uh A blend of that to kind of bring that into place. So it it it does seem like it is working and and it's something that we can certainly sit down for.
Okay. Commissioner Bradford.
Mr. Chair, I think our in our quest to be to discharge our duties, which uh I'm still learning to do. Uh I think I just one thing I do know uh is certainty is our friend. We have certainty Uh when we don't have certainty in the stock market, it goes up and down. We don't have certainty in interest rates from the feds, they make a they make a suggestion and and the interest rate goes up. All
these uncertainty affects our markets. When we have uncertainty on the board as we direct Um our development community and how we build Pasco County, I think the more certain we can not to take away our responsibilities, not to take away our decision making. Um uh power, but our s if we can look at a neighborhood and say this is the multi-use project
That's gonna go on this property. And it and it's completely like the last three we did. I think that brings a lot of certainty. To neighbors. to the existing residents that we have here. And ultimately it's the balance. It's our growth. It's our existing residents, so it it's something we need to tackle and and um I fully support uh Commissioner Weightman and uh Commissioner Starkey I look forward to being educated
more in that process.
Okay.
Um while while we're on it, you want to talk about MPDs? No. Actually before you want to talk about Commissioner Weightman, this is under your committee report. Is there anything else you want to discuss?
No, I I just I appreciate commissioning over these comments and again
expeditious response to the solution to this problem. And that we not, you know, too far down the line because these projects are coming in on heavy folks see Pasco is a great place to make investment, which is wonderful. However, I just want to ensure that we have it. quality product and a good place for folks to live. And let their dream here ask their county.
Very good. No, we appreciate that. And I think the county administrators agreeing to move very quickly to bring it back to us, not the next meeting, but the meeting after. And I think it's pretty uh noble of that effort. Okay.
Do we pay him overtime?
No, we pay him well though.
Yeah, his his time's our time.
I never read his contract, I'm just at.
Are you wanting a discussion on MPDs?
Um D's P Ds, yes. And it is in what context? I mean I I the the team is making progress uh in terms of clearing the backlog. Uh you know, I mean uh we we did get some some very nice feedback from the Builders Association that the efforts of our surgery staff and the review of of site plans and M PUDs is bearing fruit. So we we we are continuing to to make efforts uh to to clear those backlogs.
But I I am concerned that your efforts are gonna Burn out our employees. Asking them to work a lot of extra time.
And we are sensitive to that. And of course, uh, you know, Sally, Terry, and myself are discussing ways that we can try to trim, you know, areas that we we don't necessarily need to necessarily be reviewing, but uh more importantly we are stepping up recruiting efforts and trying to make sure that we are getting our our staff to full strength. It's it's a very difficult employment market, but we we continue to try. to be innovative in in in those respects.
And we have a conversation about
that.
Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um,
I wanted to comment while Terry's up there. Um this morning um we had uh someone speak about um arturios and collectors. You know the issue the issue that we have with our transportation, in my opinion, is that we don't have enough connectivity. And so everybody has to go on the same roads. If you look at downtown New Port, if you look at New Port Richey and um holiday and Um, Tampa, Saint
Pete. There's a million different ways you can get somewhere and so you don't have these backups. Um but when we don't require our communities to connect to each other everybody has to go out on the same road and that's not a good plan. Yeah. So we need and we really really need to have more connectivity, especially in a county that has all these big well fields and limited mobility. Um
gotta gotta have the connectivity. We're gonna be jammed on every single road if we don't have alternative ways through communities.
You still still have uh Mr. Kabbalah and attorney and the clerk about their old business?
Yeah. Uh this is like uh just a I'm delighted we're having this discussion, those big um and as far as like the Aaron cutoff road, etc., think about everybody heading north from Land O' Lakes. They get to fifty two forty one, how jammed up is that axe? Yeah. That and now we get it we've got some great improvements coming.
It's horrible.
have Erin cutoff, how many more trips would you have to go to the same intersection? The more of those we can provide, I agree, we need to have them all every step of the way.
Yeah, we just need more.
Yeah, we had a gentleman tell us one time that Erin Cutoff was not a cutoff road.
Yeah.
But it's been a cutoff road my entire life. So a
neighborhood road, that's But if there were other ways to get around Then you didn't have to go on air and cut off, that would be even better. And I think we will have one 'cause it'll be coming through Connor's. And it'll come across, right? So there's another road that you can go east and west on.
Yeah, Ridge Road will will terminate at that intersection. Yeah.
Yeah. And again we're gonna be looking hopefully coming up that we're gonna be taking from Ridge Road at 41 through Conerton all the way out to seventy-five, which will then go all the way to Overpass all all the way to three oh one and you'll have another road going across it could make a huge difference for a lot of travel.
Speaking of that, I was asked today um where are we on the construction of the second part of Ridge Road? Is are there any plans?
Yes, uh so I believe and I can probably get a better update for you later this afternoon, but uh you know our our plans are pretty much ready to advertise. We're we're working out some funding some funding mechanisms to see if we can't uh go to bid here uh in in late winter, early spring of of this year currently.
Okay. Overpass road is supposed to be at at its opening on end of January, so right.
I'm gonna just talk MPUDs from conversations uh that I've had with uh Our team. I want to make sure that When we're doing the advertising of the signs, which I know Terry's working on getting new stuff. Not only do the signs need to be done clearly where people can see them and access them to go read them. Coming in today on 52, there's one to the north of 52. And we talked about having these signs perpendicular to the road so you can see it driving by. There's one on 52 when you come when you go back
home. It's sitting flat to the road. You don't see it until you're past it pretty much and then It's not what we've what we said. It should be a double sided so you can see it both ways coming to and from. They're gonna be bigger. I don't know how long it's gonna take to get them, but we need to make sure that's that's gonna happen quickly. Um When we do um meetings for for a community meeting, I'm expecting, and I think the the intent was of this board that we don't want to have neighborhood
meetings to go by neighborhood by neighborhood by neighborhood. If it affects a whole area that's all connected, everybody in one meeting It's gonna heal a voice. and listen to a presentation, not divided up to divide and conquer all the way around. Um And that that we need to fix that and make sure that's clear. Um people that buy in an MPUD There's a certain public reliance on what they bought. Whether it be five years ago or twenty years ago or thirty years ago, it's
all laid out. To make a change like that is a monster, monster move. And it better be clear that everybody understands what was done before. And we need to make sure when you have a presentation from staff, they look at it. Um before you're gonna have even the meeting for the people. It says in our code a concept plan must be accompanied must be accompanied when the application's done. And I need to make sure that we're gonna start making those steps.
You moved on to future land use and not M P D.
Go back to G D.
So easy to get that on.
So anyway,
so I'm I'm I'm gonna definitely try to help help.
The way our comp plan is written, the concept plan for a P D future land use is required during that submittal. And at some point we're uh We've we've relied on the MPUD rather than requiring the the concept plan in the in the PD.
So I want to I want to try to encourage staff to look. If you don't have the paperwork properly submitted, just like in a regular permit application or something else, if it's not done the way it's supposed to be done, then you put the brakes on until it's done the way it's supposed to be done. Don't feel fooled. Just because you're getting pressure to get an MPU done. If it's not done the right way, then it's gonna wait until it's done the right way and then it can proceed. because there's a process and it's a good process. But if it's not followed, any one of those steps is missed, it it causes angst
amongst our people. And we're right here to represent the people. We're the we're the final enders commission, but we're counting on staff to make sure that things are gonna be done the way that's supposed to be done. So I just I just want to give you Support. that don't be afraid to put the brakes on if you're not getting something done the right way. Then we Take the power. We're empowering you to make sure it's done the right way. Um everyone agree with that? Yeah. Okay. Um I'd like to say that uh Sally, I greatly appreciate
your work with Mr. Coning. Um You're supplying him all the information he needs to kind of work with us to try to give us some ideas. I I appreciate the dialogue back and forth to improve our system as well. Uh he's very animated as we all saw, but he's also very factual and he's working with you and I appreciate you working with him to help us improve the system, whatever ideas he may come up with. I really appreciate that progress we've made. Um And with that, I'm gonna talk to my uh committee appointments and I'm very excited about 'em. But did you
finish did he he didn't give his stuff? She didn't give his the your last.
Alright, so the way they got it listed here is I go next. So I'm just gonna follow it. Oh they changed it? They did? did.
I think the chair ought to just do what he wants to do.
I'm gonna promote
it.
Um So for the appointments, um I'll pass them out and they pretty much
This may want to cast your to you, but uh sorry about your luck. Okay, so uh on easier on aging, uh Commissioner Bradford. Yep, sorry. Uh,
Commissioner Bradford, Candace and Buddha's all of us. Uh Department of Juvenile Justice Circuit Advisory Board, Commissioner Bradford. Drug Dependency Drug Treatment Code Planning Committee, Commissioner Bradford. The early learning coalition of Pasco and Hernando Counties, Commissioner Weightman. I think that experience with your children will show it helped quite a bit.
My ultimate will still be Commissioner Oakley. Human Trafficking Committee, Commissioner Bradford. Insurance Selection Committee will be myself. Uh I will be on the Pasco Economic Development Council. Commissioner Starkey will be on the FASCO Economic Development Council Subcommittee International.
Pasco Fair Authority, Commissioner Weightman. Pasco Hernando Workforce Board, Commissioner Starkey. I tell you there was a lot of interest in that, but Commissioner Starkey, we're gonna work on that ex officio position to make sure as a commissioner p position it's gonna be an appointed. Um I think we're all supportive to what a great job our workforce board is doing. We support it and I'm looking for you as well as for me to kind of just make sure that we keep that intact. Yep. To keep that local effect that we have.
If we have the opportunity.
Yeah, we and we get some And there will be some meetings coming up. There will be some meetings coming up that everyone takes a look at that we can all participate in, I recommend we all do. Property of value adjustment board, uh Commissioner Oakley and Commissioner Weightman. Public Safety Coordinating Council, Commissioner Bradford. Uh Restore Act Advisory Committee, I'll be on that, and Commissioner Weightman will be the alternate. Okay. Uh Springs Coast Committee, uh Commissioner Oakley. Uh Tampey Area T
Bar Regional T D Bart. S B Distarch. Still Commission Distarki has it that's available. Right now we're keeping you on there for whatever happens, happens. Uh I'm gonna stay on the temporary estuary program just because we've got so many things to work on between baffle boxes. Eventually I see that going to Commissioner Weightman down the road, but for right now we're working on. I don't wanna change that. Um Tempe Partnership, uh Commissioner Starkey. Uh I will stay on the Tampa Regional Planning Council. I will tell you with all the resiliency stuff going, I'm very excited to stay and keep that moving forward.
Uh Tam Bay Water, I have Commissioner Oakley and Weightman. Uh Tourist Development Council, I will chair that. And Transportation Disadvantaged Local Coordinating Board, Commissioner Weightman. Underwriting Selection Committee, Commissioner Weightman, and the Withlacuche Trail Advisory Board, Commissioner Oakley.
I wanna see those reports. I don't know
what
the Lakutschie State Trail Advisory Reports.
So I wanna I wanna thank you all for uh giving me your feedback. I think we've got a great selection. It's not quite what everybody wanted, but I think it's pretty close and I think with everybody's in the position they're gonna do great service for the county.
Yeah, it's perfect for me. Thank you. As I had mentioned, I going on the board of NACO, um that's gonna require some additional amount of my time. Um so appreciate um Commissioner Weightman taking my spot on Tampa Bay Water. And um and is it twelve o'clock? No. So thank you very much. Appreciate it.
No, and you know, Commissioner Starkey you you do serve. Uh Florida Associates Account is very well your involvement there is definitely has an effect for us and gives us great information. Your your participation with NACO is tremendous and it just helps when we go travel to Have those connections in the actual leverage. So I'm glad you were willing to lighten your schedule a little bit so you can focus on the new stuff that's just been handed you away too. So congratulations on all that.
Mr. Chairman
Mariano
if I can get two clarifications on your list. Okay. Uh canvassing board. Statutorily it
is
the chairman's duty unless they have a con unless you have conflict. Okay. Uh in the last several years we have not feeled a board member for that uh due to conflicts. Um these coming up municipals, um unless you're backing somebody in a municipal race, you wouldn't have the conflict of be of running
or
um so I would appreciate someone from the board being designated a as the canvassing board member Um
so at this point in time I have no backing, so I'll I'll take the position then. So I'll move myself the canvasing board.
If you want to do that, that would be great.
Okay.
Um
And so I would love to be relieved of the responsibility, the Pasco County Consolidated Justice Information Board, where you have NA, you had previously appointed the County Attorney, rather than a board member, and I still need an appointment if you wish me to serve.
I will love you to serve. I will so I will appoint Commissioner uh Attorney County Stein j uh Jeff Steinschalder to the County Consolidated. Justice Info Board. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I thank you, sir. As always, your details are tremendous. Okay, from that we're going to go to the county administrator.