C-PAL-2206 Saddlebrook Resort large scale comprehensive plan amendment

1:54:35Uh good afternoon, Amy Toll with Planning and Development.

1:54:41And the PowerPoint's coming up.

1:54:47So you may recall on September 22nd this was presented to you before as a proposed plan amendment. At that point in time, it was approved five to zero unanimously. Two board members or two commission members were not there at that point in time. So uh this did proceed forward to the December uh sixth Board of County Commissioners. meeting for the transmittal hearing on this item. That was continued to February 7th for the

1:55:17transmittal hearing and also requested to bring back to you to review some of the changes that had been made since the September time that you heard it at that point. So we'll go ahead and go through these.

1:55:30So this item is C PAL 2206 Saddlebrook Resort. Uh it is PDD twenty-three-zero zero zero nine. It is a large scale comprehensive plan amendment.

1:55:43As you know, the site is located on the west side of 75 in the South Market area and urban service area.

1:55:53What's it say? Eastside. I'm sorry. Thank you.

1:55:58I do that all the time. Um the proposal here is a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment to the future land use map 2-15 and sheet 22 from res 6, residential six dwelling units per gross acre, to PD plan development on approximately 549 acres of real property located to the south of State Road 54 and east of Of the service road and a text amendment creating sub-area policy flu 7.1.66 Saddlebrook Resort and

1:56:28a Map Amendment to the Future Land Use Map 2-9 adding sub-area map 2-966 Saddlebrook Resort. So as I stated, location is on state south of State Road 54, east of Service Road. And the resolution to their proposal is a map amendment to 2-6. 15, a MAP amendment 2-9, and a text amendment adding sub-area policy flu 7.1.66. There is also an accompanying MPUD that you will hear in the future.

1:56:57Amy, can I just give clarification on that last point you just made? So

1:57:03go ahead.

1:57:04When this went to the board. Just recently that was for transmittal?

1:57:08Correct.

1:57:09Is the intent that the M P D would Go to the board. At the same time as final adoption? In other words, are they are they gonna eventually meet up and be approved on the same day?

1:57:21Correct.

1:57:22Okay. So that's the February day.

1:57:25The February date is the transmittal hearing, not the adoption date.

1:57:28Amy Amy, I was I'm sure you're gonna get to this, but I guess just in clarification, and I know we heard this before and I noticed on your slide that's up there now it says four hundred and twenty point four seven acres.

1:57:40Um

1:57:42the agenda memo item is five hundred and forty-nine acres.

1:57:45Correct. So that is the adjustment from when you heard it in September. The overall PD and Barbara's presentation will show those differences. Yeah, we moved some of the the acreages out.

1:57:58I I thought

1:57:59that was

1:57:59the case, but I just want a clarification. Mm-hmm.

1:58:04Um so just a brief overview of some of the history that occurred with Saddlebrook Resort, and this may be a little repetitive with Barbara's presentation. So on uh June 24th, 1986, Saddleburg Resort MPUD was approved. Um I think it's important to note that this was approved in 1986, which was before the comprehensive plan was adopted. And so this was this area was set in place before the Comprehensive plan was adopted. Comprehensive plan was adopted in 1991. In 1989, as stated, or

1:58:34effective 91-89, the comprehensive plan was adopted and envisioned this area to, as it more of a residential density, not to exceed six dwelling units per gross acre. And the MPUD was modified in 1992 to increase the approved commercial acreage by 2.2 acres. For a sports science facility that was never built. So now you're seeing the proposed amendment to PD, which has the intent to clean up the conflict between these non-residential uses of the MPUD

1:59:05and the comprehensive plan, as well as add an additional parcel, which is approximately 20 acres to the Saddlebrook Resort area.

1:59:15So, in your packet, I'm I'm not gonna go through all of these in detail as now you have already seen these before, but in your packet, as you see here, this is what is prepared, which what is currently approved in the Saddlebrook Resort area. On the right-hand side, the remaining unused entitlements are as follows: they have a hundred resort unit walking village, Lakeside Village, which which is sixty eight resort units, a fairway village of sixty-four residential units, and a hundred thousand square feet of commercial,

1:59:46which is consistent with the C2 zoning district.

1:59:50And this is what the proposed uh future land use to PD is proposing. Um so the proposed permitted uses for this site will be considered um for commercial retail office of a hundred and five thousand square feet, additional d additional dorms for existing tennis and golf academies, clubhouse for existing golf courses, uh the restaurant which will be a renovation to the existing restaurant. Single family detached homes of 60 units, town homes of 255 units, and a multifamily

2:00:20of 646 units. The constructed permitted uses are not being changed or impacted in this amendment. So these are some of the policies that are consistent with the proposed plan amendment. And we'll go into some visual representation. So here's your site location. As you can see here now, uh some of the areas are have been removed from the original proposal and we're only mainly focusing on the Saddlebrook Resort area and

2:00:50the golf course areas.

2:00:54And this is your existing future or this I'm sorry, that's wrong. This is your location map. And we'll move forward. This is your existing future land use of res six. As I previously stated when the comprehensive plan was adopted in 1991, 1989 era. As you can see, it is primarily for medium density residential in this area or envisioned for that. Here's reflecting the proposed change to PD, which allows for the uses that was previously

2:01:25mentioned.

2:01:28And then I want to go into a little bit of detail of the binding conceptual plan which will be adopted alongside in the ordinance with the sub-area policy. So here is the conceptual plan that has been crafted by the applicant for this Saddlebrook sub-area policy. This will be adopted with the ordinance accompanying the map change. So it will be binding and effective within the comprehensive plan. So I'll go through some of the details for the different areas. So development one, which is going

2:01:58to be on your top left area. That's approximately 34.86 acres. It's intended to permit around 75,000 square foot of commercial, 465 dwelling units for multifamily, and 35 dwelling units for townhomes. Development area two, uh that is going to be our purple area to the uh right of that or east. Um that area is the new parcel that we will be adding to the set to the Saddlebrook Resort area. The

2:02:28development area two is approximately 19.52 acres, and it is proposed 25,000 square feet of commercial with approximately 120 townhome dwelling units. The red area being development three, which is approximately 14.6 acres. That area is the area with the clubhouse and the renovated restaurant with approximately 5,000 square feet of retail. And then restricted area four. This is the area that has changed predominantly since the original, since

2:02:59you originally see saw this in September. This area is your golf course area. The primary change that's occurring is a reduction from 36-hole course to a 27-hole course. But I do want to make note that in the agenda that you have today was an older. Version of the agenda that does mention the fact that some of this was going to be converted to a residential or so some portions were going to have town homes. That is no longer the case, and I want to make sure that that's clear on the record that there will be no residential

2:03:29in restricted area for being the golf courses. So the only thing that's going to occur occur in this area is anything golf course related. You're going to have golf courses. Driving ranges, anything, basically anything open space, recreational, golf course related. It will not be converted into any residential units.

2:03:49So Amy, can I ask a question about that? So you you said the holes are going from thirty-six holes to twenty seven holes. Correct. So My simple mind thinks that's creating additional land for something. Is are the holes just getting Longer or they're gonna what's going I mean what's going the place where those nine holes were were, what what's going to be there instead? Addition more golf course, what what will be there?

2:04:16Um the area right now is primarily just open space recognition uses. They are going to redo the golf course from my understanding. So it's going to kind of reconfigure the holes. Um so Barbara has a detailed presentation that we'll go into detail with that a little bit more.

2:04:35Okay. Well I guess I'll wait for Barbara to answer that question, but can you go back three or four slides where you talk about the new entitlements?

2:04:52Stop. So

2:04:56On your list of proposed proposed permitted use is 60 single family detached units. When you were talking about the entitlements for Area One and Area Two, I did not hear you say anything about single-family detached units. So where are those sixty single family detached units going?

2:05:17I'll relay that question to Barbara.

2:05:23If we could Barbowill Heights, sixty three twenty seven, Graham Boulevard, New Porti, Florida, three four six five two. If we could present um all this will be cleared up, there are some errors that you're seeing and catching.

2:05:36Okay.

2:05:40All right, so that's not accurate then, is what I'm hearing.

2:05:44That's the first I've heard of it as well, so

2:05:48Okay.

2:05:54But so outside of that,

2:05:57Okay, let me ask is it Everybody quiet please. So you said your agenda the portion of your agenda memo that says that the golf portions of a golf course are gonna be converted to Single family development is no longer accurate.

2:06:10From my yes, from my understanding.

2:06:13Okay.

2:06:13As identified on the binding conceptual plans. So

2:06:19Okay. I guess Olive Harbor answered my remaining questions.

2:06:24So with that then I will relay it to Barbara because this is my final slide.

2:06:30All right. Like you hear me?

2:06:37Barbara Wellhite again. Let me just say this is a project that was approved in 1986 when I was still in high school. And it's a a built project. And we have com we have a zoning that was from nineteen eighty six, we have a comp plan that's from nineteen ninety one and trying to do the paperwork. It's difficult. And I know there's a lot of I heard a lot of bad intent that I had bad intent of the way I did the brought this compliment amendment forward.

2:07:07That's not true. And what I'm going to do is walk through and show you what we've changed to make intent clear. And so I'm going to go through that process. What I'd like to also before I get started, I'd like to um put a few things in the record to a kind of clean up. First of all Last evening I emailed to each of you as well as the two opposing attorneys They didn't make themselves known. to who they are, 'cause I would've given 'em some paperwork, but Um in any event. So for the clerk, the last night email had five

2:07:38items in it. One was a compliment narrative. And you got this and they got it as well. as well as staff. Two was a P D sub area policy Three was a P D sub-area plan, which you've seen staff presenting. Four was the summary of our community outreach. Five was the affidavit of public notice regarding the signs. And six was the affidavit of public notice mailings, we mailed out almost eight hundred letters for this hearing.

2:08:06So if I could ask you to receive and file, you've already all seen this and

2:08:11motion to receive and file. Second.

2:08:13We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye.

2:08:18The second thing I would need to put into the record is is what was distributed on the dais to each of you when this meeting started. One was a copy of our PowerPoint, two is a copy of this the this PD subarea plan. And I wanted to make sure you had this at scale. 'Cause this is a very unique document in Com planning, but a really critical document um to know exactly what can happen where and what can't hap happen where. One of the criticisms I had received of the initial effort to uh bring this Complant

2:08:48amendment forward. The third one is a letter which I think you all received. I just want to get it into the record formally from Mr. Dempsey. So those three are on your dais. I have copies for um opposing counsel. If I knew who they were, um I would be happy to give those to them. But with that, could could we have a motion?

2:09:08One second, Barbara. Uh Pat, is there any way we can show these on the screen so that the audience can see?

2:09:16I have them in my PowerPoint.

2:09:18Okay. Can we show 'em on the screen? So the audience can see him?

2:09:23Yes, I will go th I will be happy to go through the PowerPoint and yes.

2:09:27Okay, great.

2:09:28Absolutely. I wouldn't give you something that's not available. So with that the motion to receive and file the things that are on your dias?

2:09:37Yeah, it's yeah we've approved to

2:09:38receive and file. Yeah that's a second one. Oh second.

2:09:42Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay.

2:09:48Okay.

2:09:51Thank you for having us back. I welcome the opportunity to present this project in more detail, to explain all the paperwork and the history, and to very m important to me to hear what uh the residents have to say. This is the beginning of well, we're still in a the process as you've kind of heard. We were in Planning Commission back in September. We're back to talk to you today. The board's transmittal hearing is in February. But there are more steps to go after that. We have to come back to you with an MPUD and ultimately come

2:10:21back to the board for them to make a final decision on the comp plan and a final decision on the zoning. So they're which probably will not uh the earliest occur uh probably in April. So there's plenty of time to continue to work with the residents and you'll see you'll see the substantial things that have been done to date and there's still time to have more conversations and I reached out and talked to Uh Ms. Graham this morning. Um attorney for Save uh Saddlebart Coalition and you know, extend that olive branch and I'll We do the same with Mr. Brooks and anybody else that wants to uh work

2:10:51with us to build a consensus and make this uh even a better community than it is today.

2:11:00This is a chronology. We started with our submittal in April. Um we The client did presentations to each of the board, the board of directors. They were virtual presentations. You can see that going on starting in June. We submitted our MPUD in in uh June. More meetings through August with the uh with the board, for example on August 10th with the Fairway Village Association Board. Eight fifteen. Public notice letters went out to each of the presidents. 822,

2:11:31another board meeting presentation. 831 was what you heard about the acreage difference. We were criticized uh for we heard criticism coming that we were um changing the land use on existing homes and units, so we pulled those out, never the intent to change the the fact that those were existing homes, and actually the comp plan was fine like it was. But we were glad happy to change it to make sure it was clear. Um another in another meeting that you see there on the eighth. There is

2:12:02uh multiple associations, so we've been having my clients been having meetings with them, recurring meetings. 922 we came to as the LPA. We were advertised in compliance with requirements. Although we're not required, we we we posted three signs and sent notice letters to each of the the association presidents.

2:12:22For this meeting we've posted five signs, sent out eight hundred letters, so just so you know how where we what we've done before here.

2:12:34In October and and November virtual meetings with each of the associations. Um and then in in December made available for in-person meetings and those have occurred in December. We are intending, my client is intending to do A um There's not a lot new to present but if people want to we're just gonna have one meeting where if anybody else wants to attend just to keep trying to get the information out and the people participate, he's gonna have a an in-person meeting this month. Um

2:13:05he's working on the details of that. Everybody, 800 people will be noticed of that as well and signs will be put up.

2:13:18Operator error.

2:13:22Are we frozen?

2:13:26Could be operated air was on me, not on

2:13:31It's usually me.

2:13:38Here

2:13:38we go.

2:13:41So the next thing I want to go through is the changes and we're going to talk about these generally and then we're going to talk about them specifically. Um but again, if you make reference to this handout here, which is awesome in this presentation, of the P D subarea plan, some of these things will make a little more sense with you being able to see that at scale.

2:14:05So our original plans had a redevelopment area number four, which is in the southeast corner, which is now it has a note on it restricted area number four. That proposed sixty f single family units and a hundred town homes on a portion of the existing golf course. That has been dropped and removed. And you can see if you look at the PD sub area plan that's in front of you, that's now called a restricted area number four. Another thing that we did based on criticism that our comp plan wasn't clear And what were we doing?

2:14:35What were we doing where? What can we do things? I created a binding PD sub-area plan to set forth where new permitted uses could only be located. Created restricted area number four, which encompasses all of the existing golf course area, including areas where new single family homes and townhomes were previously proposed.

2:14:56Restricted area number four. This language is in the sub-area policy. It's noted on the face of the sub-area plan. It also will be carried into a condition of approval and on the master plan as well. The language says that they may that area may only and may only be used as a twenty-seven-hole golf course, together with any ancillary and incidental uses to the operation and maintenance of a golf course, including without limitation, practice fields, putting greens, chipping areas, food and beverage areas, open areas, landscaping irrigation, drainage, floodplain

2:15:26compensation, and maintenance activities, and other things customarily applicable to the option of the operation of a golf course. Very clearly. No residential uses, no commercial uses, other than the fact that that a golf course could be a commercial operation, as it is today. I am no pride of authorship. If any of the other attorneys that are participating in this in this endeavor want to suggest other language that wasn't clear enough, I I'm happy to to listen to any of those um and make this as clear as it can be. We

2:15:56revised the subway policy and that's where the where you saw the there was that error in that prior uh I mean in staff's um in their PowerPoint, but revised the separate policy to remove the single family detached units and the hundred t townhome units. Another thing that we heard in the in the meetings was when you look at development area number two, and again I'll we'll look at these when we can flash that. Plan up development area two. It was an area see if I can Get that up while I

2:16:26talk about it.

2:16:29Whoops.

2:16:39I am going forward instead backwards. I apologize.

2:16:47So development area two.

2:16:55is up here this the purple up to the right hand side top That property is always always owned by the Dempsey family, never part of the Saddleburgh MPUD boundary, so we're now including it into the boundary. It's currently Res 6 land use. So then it's proposed for townhomes and non-residential on the front, exactly how you tell us the board has told us from a policy standpoint they want to see development. But our plan That we submitted to the county. Our plan showed a connection A pedestrian

2:17:25bicycle connection between that parcel And Saddlebrook Resort. It's the golf course area there, as required by code. It was actually a variation of code because your code actually requires a vehicular connection. So we showed a pedestrian bicycle connection 'cause actually when we met with staff they actually asked us to do that. But Because that was a concern of the residents, we've amended our plans and our narrative to request a full variation to not have any connection between development area number two, which will be townhomes. and

2:17:56and the existing um golf course in that community which is Fairway Village.

2:18:01Barbara, on that issue, what is immediately south of Development Area Two today? What is that golf course?

2:18:06Yeah, so you can kind of see it on here. Um you can see it's a golf course. The the intent was to hook up to the trails and so people could the golf cart path and so they could come through that uh coming through the case. So

2:18:18Stafford was requesting a bike bed connection. There there is a trail that goes through the golf to the

2:18:23There are trails through the golf course, golf course pass and the intent was to hook up so this community could Come through and but was pointed out by the residents and they are here to speak is that they're gated community and they want to maintain that as their community and they don't want another community coming through their community unless they're coming through the guard house.

2:18:51But we've made that change in our documents. Ultimately it's a the county and the board decision. Um but we s follow through with removing that request uh because of their concerns, which we understand.

2:19:09So that's the final bullet there. The next bullet the residents have not heard, um have not seen this. Um nobody's seen it. Um this is something that as we continue as a team to meet and talk about the feedback that we're getting, one of the concerns that you will hear and is regarding traffic at the entrance. at the existing Saddlebrook entrance, leaving and going out. When you leave and you have to take a left turn or a right or a right turn from the existing entrance. So we worked with Steve Henry who is here

2:19:39and will present during rebuttal. And this is his proposal and he can go through it then. um to provide a dual left turn lanes and a dedicated right turn lane. Um not required the intersection functions at at level service requirements without that, but something again, trying to every trying to address things as we as we hear them.

2:20:07Uh for the paperwork this is what our concept plan looked like that was criticized because as you can see it has no details. You have a list of things over here that you can do and doesn't say where you can do them. Understand the concern. This was the submitted MPUD plan. Most specifically you can see the in the pink that was proposed where the homes were proposed and the townhomes were proposed. And you can see it's overlaid, you can see it's on on the golf course, existing golf course.

2:20:36As we went through, this is the revised sub-area plan, which will be regulatory. It says what can go where and what can't go on the golf course.

2:20:46Can you give a back one?

2:20:47Uh-huh.

2:20:52It was the one that this goes to the question David asked before about where were the single family detached.

2:21:00Sure. The single family detached. There were sixty single family detached. and a hundred townhomes proposed for that pink quadrant there in the southeast. And those were removed. And then the numbers were updated. You can see this is the submitted MPD plan. You can see it shows that 60 single family detached and the 255 unit townhome units. When I show you the updated MPUD plan, you'll see that those numbers have changed.

2:21:31Barbara, can you uh going back to the the roadway issue, is there an existing

2:21:39connection between development area one and the remainder of Sowerbrook? Is there existing vehicular and or bike pad connection? I don't

2:21:48know There is on the roads. And on the roads the there isn't a dedicated uh trail Um there is a service road that goes along the western boundary, but we are in our MPUD proposing to do a dedicated trail that'll connect the area one up here to the left.

2:22:11I guess

2:22:11the reason I'm asking is 'Cause the I understand the concern about the existing entry exit on to fifty four, but in theory there might be another one which is Vision Road H. Is that gonna have be a separate connection to fifty four?

2:22:29Vision Road H

2:22:30is

2:22:30a separate connection.

2:22:32So In theory that would be another way to get In and out of cellar book?

2:22:37That's correct. That's a right in, right out.

2:22:41And that's right. So there will be a vehicular connection b s between Vision Road H and the rest of Saddlebrook, is basically my question.

2:22:51Vision Road H will is built down to we build it down to as we need it for the development area one. And then from there there's a a dedicated Trail that's wide enough for golf carts that then continues down. And I think Justina hopefully has that in her presentation because she did the mobility plan. We're a little out of order 'cause this is a comp plan and that's more of NPUD detail, but we've tried to bring as much detail forward as we could.

2:23:18I guess what I'm do I'm just trying to figure out whether that Whether Vision Rotted H has the potential of Alleviating some of the traffic concerns. So maybe it's a Steve Henry question. I I I don't

2:23:30I'm gonna let yes. Okay, I'll wait till

2:23:32Steve gets up then.

2:23:33So is Vision Road H on the western boundary?

2:23:36Yes, Vision Road H and I and for whatever reason the pointer on this doesn't really work, but well maybe it does. Maybe I'm just impatient. There it is.

2:23:43Okay.

2:23:44Um this is Vision Road H right along here. Sure. Then it sweeps down this way.

2:23:51No,

2:23:52I see it. So I I I can see why there's a concern that 'cause it's part of the concern is Saddlebrook only has one way in and one way out, it looks like, currently. Is that correct?

2:24:00That's correct.

2:24:02So that's why I'm basically asking, will Vision Road H be another way in and out?

2:24:06That's correct.

2:24:07Okay, oh

2:24:07yes,

2:24:08thank you. But

2:24:08only to develop an area one. It's not gonna get you they're not gonna be able to get to these other areas of the resort through. Other than bicycle.

2:24:18Well that that's what I'm was that was the root of my question, which is will it or not?

2:24:24So the the the answer is yes. There will be a uh vehicular connection between Saddlebrook Way and Division Road. So there will be a vehicular connection so that people can go both ways. You can either use Division Road or you can use Saddlebrook, the entrance to Saddlebrook.

2:24:43Mm-hmm.

2:24:44Okay.

2:24:45But not

2:24:46that's an east-west connection.

2:24:48It's it's it's up through area one. It would be up through not not south south that's not north-south. Correct.

2:24:57So as you leave Saddlebrook you can go either way, to Vision Road H or to the existing entry.

2:25:03And you can come in either way too.

2:25:04Pardon me?

2:25:05You could come in either way, either way too. You could come in and turn in early and come through development area fine. So

2:25:12south of that development area it's still one road though, correct? Uh going to the rest of the resort.

2:25:18Yes. Yes.

2:25:21The existing access to them, we which we've all driven, go into different events.

2:25:28And and just for the public's benefit, Vision Road H I know this but I want to make sure the public understands. Vision Road H is the road that will connect to Wiregrouse Ranch Boulevard and Bruce B Downs, correct Steve? Okay.

2:25:41That's correct. And then eventually it's planned to maybe go f farther north. Um so this is the revised MPUD plan. You can see the numbers over here. The sixty single family detached are gone, the and the townhomes have been reduced from two fifty-five to one fifty-five.

2:26:04The subarry policy.

2:26:08We broke it into what's constructed and what is additional, trying to be as clear as possible. Um multifamily any multifamily adjacent cannot be adjacent to fifty four. It has to be located beyond behind non residential land uses unless there's a vertical integration. requires a m a multimodal mobility plan which is on record.

2:26:32The existing comm plan uh And I think this is really kind of interesting because we actually focus on the comp plan. The comp plan is res six. The existing resort and all of those golf courses are designated for res residential uses today. That's what they're designated for in your comp plan is for residential use, not for resort use, not for golf car golf um course uses. Right now within the comprehensive plan boundary the maximum density is one thousand seven hundred and seventy nine residential

2:27:02units. Those units can be single family, townhomes, or multifamily and or multifamily. The existing Complant, as you've heard, has conflicts between these what was approved in eighty-six and what's adopted in the Complant, obviously. because you have areas that were approved and developed as a golf course. And they are now designated for residential use in the comp plan. So I my endeavor was to clean that up. And actually what that does is restrict my client. I clean

2:27:33that up because today they have a they own property that's designated for residential use, not golf course use.

2:27:38Yeah, but in the Red Six it says recreational uses are allowed too, so it goes back to the case we heard earlier. True, but the neighborhood scale

2:27:49Right. It's not I'm not saying the use is inconsistent I'm not saying our use the use is inconsistent. I'm just saying that if somebody wanted to come in and rezone the property When you have a future land use of res six, It's allowed it's you know, and obviously that has to go through a process, but we're not we're not doing that. We're changing that. We're taking that off the golf course. We're making a restricted area that can never be anything but golf course and related uses. So that's what we're doing. But I just wanted to kind of point out how it is today.

2:28:16These staff has gone through this list of what the permitted uses are in that 1986 MPUD. Hard to believe it was only amended once in 1992. Um there are remaining entitlements the staff went through as well that weren't used under the MPUD.

2:28:33The proposed comp plan?

2:28:37Has proposed permitted uses. It doesn't include those constructed permitted uses. Commercial retail 105,000 square feet. It's currently approved for a hundred thousand square feet. And that hundred thousand squ square feet we're adding five thousand square feet to allow for the possibility of another restaurant within Within the resort area. Additional dorms to allow that tennis and golf academy to grow, 55 beds. golf course clubhouse, the my client will go over and t explain to you what the plan what their plans are for the resort and the golf course

2:29:07to to revitalize it and to make it world class like it like it used to be. Restaurant, I mentioned that. Hundred and fifty five townhomes, four hundred and sixty five multifamily units. Total residential units proposed in the comp plan is six twenty of which 232 are already remaining from a density standpoint. So we're really adding uh 388 uh units to this project through this request.

2:29:38If you look at the comp plan maximum density of 1779 residential units. and then you add up what we're proposing, it's an eleven hundred and fifty nine unit decrease. I'm taking this Compland designation on my client's property and I'm decreasing it by one thousand one hundred and fifty nine residential units. and restricting ourselves to six hundred and twenty of which two hundred and thirty two were already approved.

2:30:09And that's why you have plan development category in your complan, is so that we can have these specific approvals And know exactly what's uh what's been approved. Um With that, my client from Mass Capital, Aaron Landry, has a presentation. We get asked a lot about operational issues and what they intend to do regarding the resort. He has a brief presentation and some renderings. Really not Complain related? But I know everybody wants to hear about it. So he's gonna go through that and then just Justina um Gale

2:30:40from FDC put together the Mudderham plan, can talk a little about the planning. He spent a lot of time planning um development area one and development area two. Development area one is a muddering plan, which is mixed-use trip reduction measures. We we followed that, we followed the vertical integration, we've done non-resident residential uses behind residential use non-residential uses, excuse me. So we've thoughtfully planned out how we're going to bring forward development. Because

2:31:11of what Saddleburg is and and what we hope for it to be. With that I'm gonna let Aaron come up and tell you a little bit about what his company plans to do.

2:31:19So Barbara, is Aaron gonna answer my question about the thirty six to twenty seven?

2:31:24Yes.

2:31:24Okay, thank you. Thank you, I remember.

2:31:42Good afternoon, members of the Planning Commission. I'm Aaron Landry with Mass Capital with offices at 2601 South Bay Shore, uh Bay Shore Drive in Coconut Grove, Florida. As Barbara mentioned, um obviously we have significant plans for the Saddlebrook Resort and I think as part of our plans we've always tried to take a holistic approach to it. So while there are land use related and mudroom related uh design elements that uh Justina will speak to Part and parcel of our plan has also been the core of the resort itself, which is to upgrade

2:32:12it. I think anyone who's you know visited the resort in the last couple of years and you compare that experience against five, ten years ago, uh undoubtedly the resort itself has been in significant decline. And so the way you obviously change that direction and our company is committed to doing that is You hire obviously a team of, you know, really sophisticated consultants with great ideas. You take input from everyone and You spend millions of dollars to try to change the direction of the resort and that's exactly what we intend to do. And so Some of the core elements of our plan really revolve

2:32:42around the public spaces in particular. You think about the arrival when you come up to the hotel itself today, certainly isn't very welcoming. The food and beverage opportunities that we certainly intend to provide beyond obviously what is there today, but it all needs significant renovation. Creating spaces that aren't there today. For example, there's really not places for children to actually play when they come to the resort. So trying to create spaces for splash pad and sort of ice cream shop ideas. And then the other element I

2:33:12would say related to the, you know, related to the public space renovation certainly is the pool areas themselves. You know, there's a massive pool. It's you know completely underwhelming, uh literally no shade. So we're trying to create an environment that's much more much more upscale beyond what it's been historically. And then the other sort of key elements of our plan for the renovation of the quota resort is the guest rooms themselves. I think undoubtedly those resort rooms are they're just not competitive

2:33:43relative to any other hotels nearby or other resorts. And that's reflected in the fact that the the occupancy and the rates have been in decline for a significant uh significant amount of time. And we we intend to change that. The clubhouse, there actually is no clubhouse. Any premier rural-class destination if you're building a golf resort today would have a clubhouse. We intend to create that for members to be able to have something that we think is on par and equivalent and upscale to what the

2:34:13expectations would be for a place like this. And then lastly, in terms of the golf renovation plans, we do intend to renovate the golf. Courses today. There are two 18-hole courses out there. There are several holes that are plagued with terrible drainage situations that. Make them unplayable for significant amounts of time throughout the year. It's gonna take us millions of dollars just in the golf course drainage improvements to change that. And so we are committed and want to create what is a uh, you know, continue

2:34:44to have what is a premier golf destination, uh but today it's not that. It's it's reflected in the amount of play uh on the courses, etc. So We are up to task in terms of taking on and tackling what is a certainly a very large scale resort and obviously these other components that we've talked about uh that Barbara and and Justine will speak to. But ultimately I do think that thinking about our overall plans for the resort uh holistically, inclusive of the resort renovation, um,

2:35:15which is the central sort of theme to what we're doing here, is important. These next few slides I'll I'll I'll breeze through, but um these are just these are preliminary renderings of some of these spaces that I spoke to uh a minute ago. So you're seeing what's the uh design direction for what would be the new arrival, uh again trying to create spaces that are much more inviting than what they are today. the lobby spaces, um, you know, doing things like creating a creating a marketplace, creating a coffee bar so that it's not just a an old hotel where you check in, you

2:35:45check out. You want to create spaces that allow people to feel good and obviously want to congregate and hang out and enjoy their experience at the resort and we intend to do that. The next slide here is, you know, again, I talked about the pool areas today, uh, very underwhelming, uh hardly any shade, and so we want to create spaces where you can have lounge and cabins, etc., uh, again, to have a much better experience for folks that come to the resort. creating you know outdoor bar spaces around the pool, etc. And then

2:36:15lastly, um again this is a very condensed presentation quite frankly in terms of our renovation plans. We have shared much um broader scale plans with the community in our presentations uh that we've done previously but for sake of this uh this hearing we've certainly abbreviated it. But on the left is j the concept again of creating, you know, what would be an ice cream shop that we uh we think is something that again would be enjoyable for families and kids. And then the last image you're seeing here is just one rendering, but um that is a uh that is a rendering of what the

2:36:45renovated guest room would be, um which is a far cry from what it is today. So the the the level of uh change inside the guest rooms alone. I mean we're we're talking floor to ceiling, completely changing, gutting bathrooms, kitchens, floor, ceilings, lighting, everything, so that you're elevating um obviously the the the resort um and making it a much more viable place. And hopefully you know these renovations that we make across these different elements I've talked about, um, including conference and meeting spaces will

2:37:15lead to, you know uh an increase in business that the resort simply has not had. So with that I will turn it over to Justina. Thank you.

2:37:23Wait, before Justina gets up, I Still not sure my question was answered. So but I think the best way for me to rephrase my question to get my question answered is the graphic that Barbara showed that had the original plan where that southeast corner had some residential and town homes in it. Now that you're not doing that anymore, what what's going in that area?

2:37:48Got it. So um The answer is that area is going to remain as a golf related function. Ultimately, the land area of the course today. is gonna remain the total land area. But yes, the thirty-six holes is going to be reduced down to the twenty-seven and the driving range today that is in area one will be relocated into the boundaries of the overall restricted area number four.

2:38:12So The lost nine holes, so the the nine holes that are going away, will basically become either driving range, drainage areas, or longer holes, basically.

2:38:24Correct, or buffers correct. Only golf related functions, exactly. It's a reallocation of the the the hole configuration within the same land or land area that exists today.

2:38:37that you lost the 60 homes and the hundred town homes that just allows you to make the golf course bigger or better smaller small or or

2:38:46I think i i I think it I think I think the answer to that would be it allows us to have more flexibility in terms of the whole configuration. That's that's that's what it does. Okay. But ultimately the the idea around removing the southeast corner housing was a direct result of you know several uh Obviously meetings we've had with the community to date and particularly some one on one meetings I've had with homeowners.

2:39:05But what's golf course today could become a retention pond or floodplain compensation area?

2:39:12Or a maintenance barn Anything that would support the golf function today, yes.

2:39:17Right. Yeah. Which hopefully makes the course more playable throughout the year because it's low and has a lot of drainages. And

2:39:27and there's plans to keep the driving range or you don't know?

2:39:29There's plans to yes, to relocate the driving range. So the drive range is not going uh going away. In fact we we

2:39:34need it as part of uh for the You want it the southeast corner? Yeah. Just so I can see kinda what's

2:39:43So you're basically gonna reconfigure the entire course.

2:39:46Correct.

2:39:47It's not gonna be laid out the way it is now.

2:39:49That is correct.

2:39:52And what is your Your timing for doing all of these well I'll ask them a two different questions. When are you redoing the golf course and then when are you redoing the resort or is it all being done at the same time?

2:40:05So the the the the resort facilities um in the Gulf are I would say are Separate paths. I mean obviously we're working on sort of two different efforts together in terms of the planning for those areas, but the timing for the golf, I would say sometime by the end of next year we'd like to be able to have plans that are able to be built off of. But we're in that planning stage right now of relaying out the Gulf today. But it's a it's a separate It's so it's a totally separate sort of

2:40:35process from a design perspective around the golf course design versus the renovation of the existing buildings.

2:40:41Okay, I was just trying to gauge Whether we're gonna the county's gonna be getting site plans for the entire resort and golf course or are they gonna do these as separate site plans in middles?

2:40:53I think in terms of the existing facility changes and the Gulf, uh I think those time frames will probably marry up, but certainly that's different than the timing of where we are today but from a the land use you know related uh plans that Barbara and Justina are gonna speak to.

2:41:10Okay.

2:41:12Okay, any other questions?

2:41:14Yeah, I got one more. So I s we were sent an email and one of the The concerns was obviously one of those courses is an Arnold Palmer design. From what I saw you guys are in communication with the Arnold Palmer architectural folks to Yes. Should you talk through that and kinda

2:41:34Yeah, so to answer that question, uh we have not we're we are we are close, uh we are negotiating, but there are two uh that we're negotiating with uh negotiating with of which Arnold Poller is one. So that decision will be made hopefully in short order, but um There's there's some other very compet compelling uh golf architects out there that we wanna make sure we're considering.

2:41:57Sure, I understood.

2:41:58So thank you.

2:42:05He's answered my question.

2:42:07Okay, next.

2:42:10Good afternoon everyone. Justina Gale, Florida Design Consultants, 20525, Amberfield Drive. And I'm gonna go over the specifics of the cons conceptual plan of development area one. So let's see if I can go to the next slide. Okay. So as part of our MPUD amendment, we have submitted a Mutterham master plan. And not only does this meet, but it exceeds all of the criteria

2:42:41for Mutterham Master Plan, which is a mixed-use development. And it was a really exciting opportunity to be able to design this area. Um so we're meeting it it's gonna be a truly mixed use integrated project. Um we have up on the front and I don't know if I can show you the pointer, but we have integrated non-residential. We're proposing retail on the bottom story and office on the above story. So it's gonna be

2:43:12multi-story. Um and then the multifamily will be in the back. So that's what a lot of the board direction wants a lot of the multifamily to be away from State Road 54. But as you come into the project, um there'll be a beautiful boulevard. um everything with on street parking, everything we have a multi-use trail system going through the project, sidewalks everywhere. the parks there will be neighborhood parks plazas that

2:43:42will be strategically placed and all this will create a sense of place. The non-residential will also have courtyards to have patio seating have a place for create public realm so people can go to restaurants and everything will be very walkable. All the buildings have been moved Close to the boulevard to create that sense of place. And there will also be a focal point around the roundabout. And then also another boulevard that'll

2:44:12go to the amenities center. So it was a very fun project to design, meeting all of the criteria and truly creating a sense of place. And then there will also be some of the townhomes that will be located to the east so that that'll be approximately uh thirty-five units. And then for area do you have any questions for development area one?

2:44:37Yeah, I have one. Sure.

2:44:43Presentation here. I don't see vision road on there. Where would that be at? And number two, how is

2:44:50the top? North is

2:44:54sideways flipped.

2:44:55It's flipped, um otherwise it wouldn't be able to fit on the PowerPoint unfortunately the way it's shaped. So the vision road um is um to the east.

2:45:07Uptown.

2:45:08Or

2:45:08west, exactly. What?

2:45:11To the west, I'm sorry.

2:45:12Until Vision Road is developed. What's it?

2:45:16To the west.

2:45:17Looks like only axis is southworth way.

2:45:23Thank you.

2:45:26What's gonna be the main exit exit entrance into this facility that's part of it? And is it open to the public or is it gonna be gated?

2:45:36I'd be happy to So the the ent the main entrance to Saddlebrook will still be the main entrance to Saddlebrook. It'll look nicer than it does today.

2:45:53On this it's on the top here and that's the western half, right? So th so that vision road will be from State Road 54 to serve this project. So if you're coming on fifty four and you're going eastbound, you will turn right there to come in here. You can also keep going and go down to the main entrance. This this portion of the project is not gated. The gates will be will be moved, the gate guard shack will be moved.

2:46:23so that the community and the resort will still be behind the gates. This part of the show of the project will be in front of that guard. What we could go to now, this portion of the project be in front of that.

2:46:35Well Mr. Hansel, but I want to be clear about something. This is not the MPD, but At the time of MPD approval, staff and or the Planning Commissioner Board could require that they build that portion of Vision Road H before they develop this pod. I mean that that's something that's within the peripheral.

2:46:54Yeah, that is it does say it it has to be built to serve this pod. That of course you can't see that language yet and we'll work on that line. But

2:47:01I'm just saying that we control whether their access would be Off of Saddlebrook Way or Vision Road H. Agreed. We could require that Vision Road H be built before this pod is developed.

2:47:12Okay.

2:47:13That that's an important part of the process there. Or it's part of the development of this

2:47:19Vision Road in this particular area right here were built concurrently.

2:47:25That's that's correct. Now it won't go all the way back. As in here to the left, which is to the south, because there's nothing to hook it to. Because it as you see as it's a little bit more than a little bit. Is it goes to the south? if you are s looking the right way here, if you're going to the south, it starts to bend over into Wiregrass's property. And so there's no reason to build it beyond this pod development pod 'cause it doesn't go anywhere. But the county will have the right of way. When they decide to build Division Road through wire grass they'll have the right of way

2:47:55and we're gonna build the portion of the vision road to serve this pod. So it'll be fully functional that vision road to serve this pod.

2:48:08Okay. Thank you. Uh my only concern is still I w I hope that at some point in time this will all come together about the same time. Because you wouldn't want to have this particular project here built with no entrance or access to it.

2:48:20We have it saying here on the record, the documents will they already are on record because we already have conditions and different things that have been working on the MPUD. But The requirement will be that that vision road be developed. at the same time as that pod the portion necessary to serve it. So that pod, nothing will happen in that pod, no COs or anything like that until that portion of the vision road is completed to serve it.

2:48:46Thank you.

2:48:50Any other questions for development area one?

2:48:58Can I Sure So I understand what Barbara just said, but going back to Mr. Handel's point, could you go back to the plan?

2:49:08Yeah. Well so it looks like the existing residents if they want to get Division Road H to back to Steve Henry's point, I guess it's through this middle east west road that goes sort of the through the middle of the because everything else seems like a parking lot. So it it's assume it's this right

2:49:24behind

2:49:24the pink building. There's th there's an east west thing that says focal feature right in the middle of it.

2:49:28That's correct.

2:49:30Okay. Will that be built as part of the first phase of this pod as well so that the residents can get out through vision RDH.

2:49:40I haven't written anything on that for the conditions, but we can certainly work on that.

2:49:44Okay.

2:49:46Do we have an ide do we have an idea of approximately how many homes that existing uh Saddleburg Way serves?

2:49:56Yes.

2:50:03It would be Well and and I have the numbers I have the numbers based I don't have all the numbers. I have the numbers based upon what's in the M P. D boundary, but if you look at the M P D boundary there are portions of Saddlebrook resorts They're on Saddlebrook Way they're not in the boundary. So I'd have to calculate that. We'd have to go look at that. I can only tell you what's in the boundary because I know exactly what's been constructed in the boundary. Um but there are I probably could show you where I'm talking about.

2:50:33Mm.

2:50:39There are some homes that are not in the boundary so I can't calculate it for you off the fly here.

2:50:56See as you come you can see the boundary.

2:51:00It yeah, it kind of has like a weird boundary to it. There's a bunch of homes there on Saddlebrook Way. They're not in the M Pud boundary, so Well I was excited there that I knew the answer, I don't because I'd have to figure out how many homes are behind the gate but not in the MPD boundary. I don't have those numbers.

2:51:18Because that's all that's their only egress and egress there, if I'm correct. It's Howard Quay.

2:51:26That's that's correct.

2:51:30Barbara I don't know if you know the answer to this but yeah, but do you know what the total mobility fees that will be generated by your revised entitlements?

2:51:39I do not know. Yeah.

2:51:42Before the MPD comes, could you make sure you know that number?

2:51:45Absolutely.

2:51:45Okay, thank you.

2:51:54Sure, thanks.

2:51:56And then I'm I'm just quickly gonna go over development area two. This is the nineteen point two nine acres that we're proposing to come into the PD located um adjacent to 54 um and we're proposing approximately 25,000 square feet of commercial that's located in the front um and then uh townhomes, 120 units. Um in the same thing um it was designed with a multi-use path And um the

2:52:26park being centrally located so that it's walkable and creates um community for for this area. And that's it. Thank you.

2:52:35So Justina this looks like it would may have been done When there was gonna be a connection to the south? 'Cause it looks like I see some kind of stub out to the south. Unless that's

2:52:45it's it no, it's actually a turn you're required for fire. Oh okay. Fire axes, yeah. So there won't be any and this is still the conceptual um plan, so once we, you know, engineer it and so forth, um we'll get the details, but i it's it just a tea turnaround for fire.

2:53:07Thank you.

2:53:11I think you've heard enough from us for now. We'd like to hear from uh the neighbors and then we'll come back and answer questions and try to address things that come up.

2:53:19All right, thank you. Thank you.

2:53:25Okay. So we've heard from the applicant and now we have an opportunity to get questions from the neighborhood. Uh if you'd like to come up and speak, please do state your name, your address, and make sure to tell me whether you've been sworn.

2:53:43My name is Ralph Brooks, Attorney, and I have been sworn, and I submitted a request to speak on behalf of Fairways Association, Inc. and present expert planning testimony of our expert planner Daryl Max Forge, who's a former planning director of a number of counties uh in Florida, including some in this area. He'll speak after me. I'll speak for just a few minutes and then you'll have a a short presentation and maybe it lasts about fifteen minutes.

2:54:09Okay.

2:54:10Um b before we start, Liam, do we have somebody keeping track of time?

2:54:14Yes.

2:54:15Yeah,

2:54:15I'm going to

2:54:16make sure

2:54:16that

2:54:16before. Okay, okay. I just want to make sure. Okay. Okay. Again, my name is Attorney Ralph Brooks and I'm board certified in city county and local government law. I've served as an assistant county attorney for Sarasota County and as land use attorney for Monroe County, which is the Florida Keys, and I've been city attorney uh for small town of Yankeetown in this area, uh as well as Saint Pete Beach. and Madeira Beach and I'm currently uh the one of the city attorneys for the city of Naples. With me is Daryl Max Forge and he's an expert planner and he'll be

2:54:46speaking with you as well. I wanted to lay out a few of the basic legal parameters for you to consider. I know you've heard plan amendments and rezoning and special exceptions and variances. And all of these things have their own standards of review, their own legal criteria, and how we how we get here. So plan amendments, uh as you know, comprehensive planise out of the Community Planning Act. Um the courts have determined in the USIM case and in section twenty-eight that all plan amendments, no

2:55:16matter how big they are, are legislative. So that means you have the discretion uh to change your community plan. if you want to, but you also have the discretion to say no, uh that you don't want to change your community plan, that you like the way Saddlebrook Resort is laid out, you like uh the RS six and you're allowed to keep them. Um that's a little bit different than the standards that are applied to rezoning later. Um there they would show or have to show that they're consistent with the comp plan. If an NPUD is not consistent

2:55:46with the comp plan, it it can't be approved. Um and a rezoning can still be denied for a legitimate public purpose when we get to that stage. Um but if you're going to deny these changes to Saddlebrook Resort uh or or change them or ask them to go back to the drawing board and continue this item for further revisions, then this would be the time that you would do it before you transmit. And you do it in the in the comprehensive plan stage. Um particularly uh in Pasco County where you have a land use district called Plan Development, which

2:56:17is very unusual. Most Cities and counties have planned development zoning districts, but they don't have such a category for future land use mount. Um The developers' rights. The developer bought the property uh as it is currently designated in the comp plan. Um The county set up RS6 for Saddlebrook Resort when they adopted their comp plan. That was part of your community-based planning effort supported by data and analysis. What's in front

2:56:47of you now is an applicant generated plan amendment. a developer has purchased the golf course and clubhouse and things and some land in and around Saddlebrook Resort. And they want to change things and they want to uh to do things including a hundred and five thousand square feet of commercial. That's the size of two publices. Um a loss of golf courses. There's two AT Hole golf courses. One is a very special Arnold Palmer golf course, and it's

2:57:17a beautiful golf course. Um Driving through the area today, I I was amazed uh once again. And you can play that golf course if you go to golf now. So at people in Pasco County and other places that come here for vacation can enjoy the benefits of the what I consider to be one of the most beautiful premier golf courses in Florida. a place where people have had conventions, uh law firm retreats. on planning conferences over the years, over the decades. and change it. Um Uh something

2:57:47that currently has a lot of green space, open space, um serves as wildlife habitat and it's why people like to live there. When you drive into the gate of Saddlebrook you feel like you're going into a someplace special, someplace different. It has a special sense of place and The applicant I think is trying to bring in some things on the outside of Sally Brook. Um Uh again they're proposing not to connect it. Why? Because it probably doesn't fit. It doesn't have the sense of place and people in Saddlebrook

2:58:18who want to enjoy what they have. The developer has development rights to pursue development under the existing land use designations that are on the property and to create this land use category. Plan development and leave behind the RS6 creates what's called reverse spot planning. You may have heard of spot zoning. Well, same type of concept applies to plans, to land use maps. You're creating all these little dots within here, these enclaves, they're

2:58:48isolating the existing residents, and you're gonna tell them we're gonna uh change uh what is behind your houses and around your houses and at Yeah, yeah. You don't have to do that. These are not reasonably contiguous or compact. They're spread throughout. Um We're also talking about doubling the number of units. There's existing something like 718, and they're talking about adding 620. They're

2:59:19saying, well, we could add some couple hundred already under the existing PUD, but you know, where would they fit them? There really is not a spot. So they're really taking 620 and adding that to the existing set. seven eighteen that would be Saddlebrook, doubling the number of people and the number of units um that are in the area. Um Uh with that I don't want to take up too much more time because I want my expert Max Forge to have a little bit of extra time because he's gonna give you some expert planning advice.

2:59:48All right, thank

2:59:49you.

2:59:55Commissioners, good afternoon. My name is Max Forge, 236 Southeast 45th Street, Cape Coral, Florida, 33904, doing business as Forge Planning LLC. Um It is my expert opinion that the proposed amendment to the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan should be denied because it is internally inconsistent with the County's Comprehensive Plan. and that the proposed

3:00:26action is incompatible. With the well-established pattern of residential land uses in the immediate vicinity, and that the proposed Plan Development FLUM future land use map designation would, if approved as proposed, be uh harmful to the use and enjoyment of these properties by residents of the immediate area, including the members of the Fairway. Association Inc. and Patrick Hogan their agent. uh

3:00:57a a tiny bit of background. Uh I uh my qualifications I have a Master of Public Affairs degree in urban and regional planning from the O'Neill School of Public and Environmental Affairs at Indiana University, Bloomington. uh and have been a member in good standing of the American Institute of Certified Planners for twenty-nine years. It will be thirty in May. Uh

3:01:31The action sought by the applicant is a future land use map amendment from RES 6, residential, 6 dwelling units per acre maximum. to plan development and therefore this hearing is legislative in nature as uh Mr. Brooks has explained.

3:01:56When a governing body such as the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners adopts or amends any part of the future land use map, or the goals, objectives, and policies of any element of the plan, they are performing a legislative act. And that is why these amendments must be adopted by ordinance. uh the fairly debatable standard uh of of proof in these cases goes back to Uh two

3:02:27very historic uh US Supreme Court. Rulings, Hatchek versus Sebastian and Euclid V. Ambler Realty. Uh Professor Thomas Hawkins of University of Florida in his recent book, Land Use Law in Florida, said quote, the fairly debatable standard has two parts. First, a local government land use regulation must have a substantial relation to the public health, safety,

3:02:58morals or general welfare. This is a statement that the local government's regulation must be an exercise of that government's police power. He goes on to say that second, the land use regulation must not be clearly arbitrary. And he says, quote, unlike quasi-judicial decision making such as you did earlier on your uh agenda this afternoon. such as rezoning or special exceptions,

3:03:29local governments are always free to say no to any application for a comprehensive plan amendment, and mister Brooks has already said that. Um I want to turn now to the administration element of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan, which articulates a very clear vision of how these cases should be handled. Um Justification for amendment to the comprehensive plan, and

3:03:59this is going to be a uh a verbatim quote. amendment of any aspect of the Board of County Commissioners. an amendment of the future land use map in particular is a declaration that the amendment is appropriate and consistent with other portions and features of the comprehensive plan. Going on further, they says Uh it it says, quote Uh Future land use map amendments

3:04:29are not intended to occur with the same frequency as rezoning actions. A a future land use map amendment is a Special action, as it were. Uh they They establish standards for review in um section F L U A one which is very detailed. And uh in section FLUA two, additional standards of review. And

3:04:59I respectfully wish to s suggest that those were not fully engaged in the staff report before you. Uh they The administration element requires three findings of fact, which staff proposes making A consistency. B Um recommendation for whatever further amendment would be advisable in conjunction with the proposed amendment. They found that it was not needed. And

3:05:31C an analysis of capital costs, additional service requirements, and the benefits generated by the proposed amendment. it is appropriate for them to be cited at this time, not to kick the can down the road for a later P D. Criteria for amending the future land use map. The Pasco County Comprehensive Plan declares that any amendment to the plan constitutes, quote, a major policy decision, end quote,

3:06:01and requires and and I think it is incumbent upon you today to To make this uh to consider this. And deny it. declaration that the amendment is appropriate and consistent with other portions and features of the comprehensive plan. uh staff recommends that. I do not see the evidence upon which they they base that um recommendation. Since comprehensive planks are based upon

3:06:32data and analysis by state law, it follows that amendments to any element, including maps and goals, objectives, and policies, must be based upon data and analysis.

3:06:49Uh

3:06:52The P D is a flume designation in Pasco County. I understand that it is such, and I'm not going to argue with that. But I'm going to say that a P D is the instrument by which land use the land use category, the land use designation, is designated. The uh P D or P U D A planned unit development is the instrument by which

3:07:24that designation is realized. Uh It is a definition which does not define the land use as a specific land use I don't I know what residential or commercial looks like, but I don't know what plan development looks like. but rather it explains the philosophy or procedures for allowing additional density uses and other deviations from traditional land

3:07:54use districts, behind planned developments also known as PUDs.

3:08:01Uh

3:08:03I disagree with the findings uh made by staff. uh that The application meets or exceeds the expectations of the administration element. It it doesn't. Staff el staff analysis was perfunctory at best. uh and cited only two specific policies of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Conspicuously absent was an analysis of the proposed uses and their compatibility

3:08:34with neighbouring uses, which uh I will discuss at greater length later. The next issue, compatibility. Compatibility is defined in state law. Uh Florida statutes one sixty three point three one six four peren nine. which is one of the most important definitions uh related to land use in state law. Uh as

3:09:02Compatibility means a condition in which land uses or conditions can coexist in relative proximity to each other in a stable fashion over time, such that no use or condition is unduly negatively impacted directly or indirectly by another use or condition. Um And You have Uh a lot of references in the Pasco County

3:09:33Comprehensive Plan to compatibility. uh specifically in policy one hundred four one and one Ten one. The the uh review c um uh review for compatibility. The pen uh

3:09:53The jagged boundary between the Res VI and the Nebulous P D will create a frontier of incompatibility that will impose a heavy impact on existing Saddlebrook residents. mister Hogan and the Fairway Association and their neighbors um will um I'm sure tell you more about that. I recommend five findings of fact in support of denial. One The uh The proposed u use?

3:10:24would be internally inconsistent with the comprehensive plan and especially those uh policies which I've just cited as well as the administration element. Two. Lack of data and analysis. Three. the inadequacy of authentic public participation which uh the Saddlebrook residents are still waiting to receive. Uh four, the confusing nature of the proposed uh future

3:10:54land use designation, which I've already addressed. Uh if you go to Uh Chapter one sixty three point three one seven seven there are There is a list of Uh land use Land uses that are appropriate in a future land use map. And PD isn't one of them.

3:11:19And the last finding is uh that it divides Saddlebrook into two planning regimes. If you look at the map you saw earlier, There were six what I would call fingers or peninsulas of uh R six that will be jutting into uh a P D land use That's not exactly good planning, I don't think. And there

3:11:49are Nine islands. tha that will be isolated. So you'll have a use surrounded by another use. Generally not good planning practice. Um

3:12:05Saddlebrook is a beautiful community. It would be a great place to live. It is a recreation-based resort, residential community. Um it may um I I'm I'm sure that the residents would welcome some improvement. but it's a beautiful place. and the the golf courses are amazing. So these

3:12:36residents have

3:12:40invested heavily. in their community. Their investment backed expectations are why Saddlebrook continues to thrive. And

3:12:56they uh at least have a right to be consulted on their future. Based upon the information that I provided and other competent substantial evidence that will be presented um in public testimony, Uh It is the e m my expert opinion that this applicant application should be denied. and not transmitted to the state of Florida for further action and

3:13:26that you recommend thus to the Board of County Commissioners. Thank you.

3:13:31Thank you.

3:13:33Can

3:13:33I ask him a question? Yeah. Yeah. Sir. Who do you want the Sir? Come back up please so we can ask questions.

3:13:41So You and Mr. Brooks said a lot of words. But I never really heard what your substantive objection was to plan that Miss Keel presented. So I need you I guess I'd like to hear Why the specific plan that she presented is bad for your client.

3:14:03Uh well you'll hear more from the client, but um the the Uh m based upon the information I was able to work with, not the recent updates, um I found very little um Very little factual information, data and analysis to support the change in land use.

3:14:25That's not answering my question. Okay. My question is Excuse me, wait a minute. He's he's asking a question. So so my question is I mean normally when we have residents Or attorneys or experts get up and then you can't do it.

3:14:47Whether it's traffic or lack of open space or park space or or drainage or s there's you're just with all due respect, you got up here and spotted off a bunch of laws that I could educate the Planning Commission on perfectly well. I don't need you to do it. But I never heard any substantive concerns with the plan. They they presented a very detailed plan up here about what they're doing to solve it.

3:15:14We don't have

3:15:15the floor right

3:15:15now.

3:15:16He's talking to him. About the plan.

3:15:24The concerns were per

3:15:27You're asking what the client's concerns are, so I'm gonna bring the client up to answer that.

3:15:31No, we don't want the client yet. We'll call him up when he's done asking.

3:15:39Okay. Ms. Gale is also an expert in planning. Sure. Okay. So she she pr she presented a very detailed plan about what they're doing to Area one and area two and as far as I can tell Those are the only areas that are really changing. And so I wanna know what your concern your clients specific concerns are about area one and area two. I don't want to hear I don't want to quote from about data analysis or the admin Element of our plan. Okay, you

3:16:09can save that for court. I wanna know what your specific concerns are about the plan that Ms. Gill presented.

3:16:16the multifamily units that are being added and the addition um the the loss of the driving range and Um the Uh the uncertain future of the lost um Um Mm-hmm. The the lost nine holes and that area.

3:16:41So the concerns are the loss of nine holes. The potential loss of the driving range, although the applicant said they're moving the driving range, not losing the driving range.

3:16:50Didn't the applicant say that the driving range property wasn't part of the Saddlebrook PUD to begin with, that that was the Dempsey property? Or did I just misunderstand that?

3:17:03But but regardless, I think the applicant said they they intend to move the driving range from its existing location to somewhere In the golf course area. But you say you concerned with the multifam what is the specific concern with the multifamily, just so I know.

3:17:19You're taking a uh

3:17:20recreation?

3:17:21Excuse me. I keep telling you that if you're asked a question, you can come up. Right now he's asking him. I'm asking the

3:17:28your planner the question. These are planners.

3:17:30All right, and then you if he wants to ask you a question. These are not the questions. I'm asking your planner the question.

3:17:34Okay, then I'd like to follow up with the question.

3:17:36Well we'll

3:17:36see. Please please redirect.

3:17:41You came up here and asked me for extra time at the at the last minute and I granted you the extra time. I wanted to give you plenty of time. But what I don't want is I don't want somebody to come here and pontificate about something that we already know. About the law and about what we can do with with uh cotton plans and blue.

3:18:04Come

3:18:04on,

3:18:04let's get to me they

3:18:05already know, just to

3:18:06be clear. What is the problem? That's what I want to know. And you it's you know, it's just To me, I'm not sure why you turned it over to him. Okay, so I think you were doing a pretty good job.

3:18:18So so what so what what what is the concern about the multifamily?

3:18:25I i i i it's what they have expressed to be. That is their concern.

3:18:30Which is

3:18:32A large amount of additional multifamily which would be incompatible with their land use case.

3:18:43What is the planning perspective why this presents a problem?

3:18:48Do you think that do you think there's some planning reason why the multifamily should not be located where it's being located?

3:18:56I I don't have an answer for that now. Okay. I'm just gonna I have no further questions for him. Okay.

3:19:03Do you have any questions for the other person? I don't have any questions for

3:19:05you.

3:19:07Do we have any questions?

3:19:11Yeah the clients will explain to you that we're losing an open space

3:19:14reacquaint replaced with a shopping

3:19:16center and

3:19:17a apartment building.

3:19:20So sit down please.

3:19:24Okay, next. I just want to say if I've offended anybody, I'm sorry.

3:19:29You're not offending anybody. We're just trying to follow a procedure. Mr. Brooks in the future. We can't just allow anybody to get up and kick whenever whenever they feel like it.

3:19:37Educating the Planning Commissioner Weightman.

3:19:38We're trying to give everybody a chance to speak.

3:19:40Mr. Brooks in the future, educating the Planning Commission on the law is my job, not yours.

3:19:47Thank you.

3:20:17Okay. I'm sorry, how much time did I grant you? Uh fifteen minutes.

3:20:27Chair Graham, my name is Jane Graham. I'm an attorney representing the Save Saddlebrook Coalition and the 15 minutes is actually going to be myself and um two representatives of my client, Ms. Joanne Barbetta and Mr. Larry Barbetta. Um So the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition is a Florida nonprofit corporation dedicated to providing a common and unified voice based on the shared priorities and values that span the entire Saddlebrook community. The

3:20:57membership includes individual property owners and homeowner associations within the Saddlebrook community. My the coalition respectfully requests that the Planning Commission recommends denial of this application today. And my client would like to find a solution with MAST. And I do want to mention that I did have a nice conversation today with Ms. Wilhite, and I do appreciate her reaching out to me. I think that based on our conversation and what's been submitted We are

3:21:28not in a position that we can support today's proposal, but that's not to say that, you know, we would be open to further conversations. As you Uh

3:21:42Got it. All right. So as you consider um this large scale comp plan amendment, remember as they previously said it's a legislative decision, major policy decision, you need to look at the implications of the immediate property surrounding area and effect on growth management. We have a number of specific reasons why the Planning Commission must recommend denial. You're going to hear from a number from my client as well as a number of members of the community.

3:22:13Most notably, compatibility with the character and surrounding land use of Saddlebrook itself. It has a large, a long heritage as an athletic resort. It's really a no- It's like a a crown jewel of Pasco County and and you're going to hear from a lot of people today of just you know the open space and the athletic use and and what is actually compatible. You're also going to hear that Mast's plans to pave over the driving range without any detail to show exactly

3:22:43how the existing golf course will be reconfigured is troubling, especially given the reliance of Saddlebrook on this athletic heritage. It's kind of like signing a blank check where They're taking the the driving range is thirty-four plus acres right now fronting State Road 54 and they're basically paving it over and turning it into a a parking lot with a number of different buildings. And an ice cream shop apparently. Actually no, that's in the resort. You will hear

3:23:13that the proposed restriction on the golf course also for falls short of the genuine protections that are needed in the community. We do appreciate that there was language that was put forward as some kind of restrictive covenant. However, if you look at the language itself, it still includes food and beverages, which is pretty broad. I mean, that could be, you know, a Taco Bell, that that could be a variety of different different things. There's a vagueness there that my client is H they're they're not comfortable with that. You're

3:23:44also going to hear testimony from my client as well as many people today about how the current infrastructure is strained and cannot support this huge change in land use with over 600 new units and a hundred thousand square feet of commercial space that's actually going to be built. That's going to have 9,000 plus new trips added to State Road 54, and you will hear all about the impacts to traffic, schools, and emergency services. I would

3:24:14like to submit to you, and I I have it here, a report from Drew Rourke, who is our traffic engineer. He's done a short study of the preliminary analysis of the timing and phasing of the analysis from Mast back in September 2022. Oh, sorry, that went back. Um

3:24:39And he found several significant flaws in the methodology. One is that the study area was actually very small given the development of this magnitude. As well as various errors in traffic distribution and trip generation estimates. And he concluded that the report needs to be updated. So I mean the bottom line of that is in doing this evaluation of the comp plan change, the the data isn't there, and we we think that the the traffic re the traffic needs to be reassessed.

3:25:10Is he here today?

3:25:11No, he he's not here today. But I do have Yeah. Um that we can submit. Um

3:25:19that's not real helpful when you make when When you come here really and when they make a statement you need to be able to back it up. And if you can't back it up, we have to have somebody that made the statement that can back it up. Otherwise we can't give it much weight.

3:25:33Well I appreciate that and unfortunately he's unable to be here in person, but I at least I have his report that you can review.

3:25:40So just to be clear on this, he commented on the timing and phasing analysis or the analysis that was done for the plan amendment?

3:25:48It was for the Plan Amendment. Because

3:25:50timing and phase analysis is generally done for in conjunction with an MPUD rezoning, not in conjunction with a plan amendment.

3:25:59Right. Well what a what I do know is the the document that he reviewed was in conjunction with the September two thousand uh uh twenty two plan amendment and so I I mean it it was that document.

3:26:13Does staff know or Mr. Henry know what analysis was done in conjunction with the plan amendment?

3:26:21Can I just c I wanna get this clarified?

3:26:22Mr Henry, come up so you can be heard and I'm gonna answer that question.

3:26:27Steve Henriman Linkston Association. So one, the the timing and phasing analysis was done in September. but the needs assessment which was done for the comp plan was August. So if he reviewed a September document, that is for the zoning, not for the plan amendment that's before you today.

3:26:45Okay.

3:26:46Thank you.

3:26:46The reason I bring it up is because if that's what he's criticizing is the timing of phase analysis that was done for the zoning That criticism isn't even relevant today. That would be relevant when the MPD comes. Not so did he panel did he ha did he have specific criticisms of the needs assessment that was done for the plan amendment?

3:27:08He I I don't think he had a copy of the needs assessment. I don't I don't think we have seen a copy of the needs assessment.

3:27:15Okay.

3:27:16So yeah, and I and obviously I uh point taken. Um that's why don't you

3:27:22continue? So

3:27:23we

3:27:23we we try not to use your time there, so right, William? Yeah, okay.

3:27:28Thank you. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Um so uh the and though just to to move on, I I think I I'd like you to hear now from Joanne Barbetta and she will talk about her personal observations of the compatibility of of Saddlebrook and thank you very much.

3:27:45Thank you. Appreciate it.

3:27:47Hello, I'm Joanne Burbetta and I live at [address removed]. We came to Saddlebrook about ten years ago when our daughter had dreams of training at a tennis academy.

3:27:58Joanne, you've been sworn, right?

3:28:00I have been sworn. Thank you. Uh we toured around Florida but quickly settled on Saddlebrook. The tennis program drew us in, but the people, the natural beauty, and the abundant wildlife helped seal the deal. that this place would this would be the place for us, at least temporarily. We thought we'd go back to Minnesota, but that's not what happened. Within a few short months we purchased a home here. It's hard to explain, but there's just something special about Saddlebrook. As you enter Saddlebrook, you

3:28:30immediately have the sense that you have arrived somewhere beautiful. Those who designed Saddlebrook took great care to create expansive green space, lush plantings, and native trees to welcome visitors to this beautiful environment. Just as you would want your front door and entryway to welcome people in, the entryway to Saddlebrook welcomes visitors and reminds them to slow down and enjoy nature and recreation that Saddlebrook has to offer. The driving range might seem

3:29:00to be separated from our homes, but it is not. It is inside our doorstep, inside our community, and in fact affects how we and the community at large feel every single time we drive in and out or pass by on State Road 54. The special entrance was intentional. Back in 1979, when Saddlebrook was first designed, its developers required, quote, a road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest.

3:29:32The driving range at the front of the property makes perfect sense to what lies within. It provides open space and recreation. It would be jarring for your eyes to see four hundred and sixty five apartments and thirty five townhomes. There would be no sense of arrival, and the large open space and vast green would disappear. As you can see, the beauty within Saddlebrook is simply spectacular. The expansive and dense collection of trees, the winding roads, the spacious driving

3:30:02range, were all thoughtfully laid out, at a scale not seen in Pasco County and beyond. The homes are spaced far apart. And there's a lot of privacy and large open spaces. The peacefulness and serenity of that can't be overstated. Saddlebrook is also a place where you regularly interact with the best elite athletes in the world. I'm an avid tennis player and many times I've stood by watching uh players such as John Isner,

3:30:32Martina Hingis, Jennifer Cabriotti, and others train. Imagine if your sport was football and you could regularly walk down and watch the best professional football players working, practicing, and joking around. It was a wonderful opportunity for our daughter too. Imagine being a young player and running into John Isner by the training room, or feeling proud that your primary tennis coach used to train Pete Sampras. Increased traffic congestion, even at off-peak times, is a growing

3:31:03problem. I recently took these photos of State Road 54 at 1.30 in the afternoon on two separate days. On the far right photo you can see the driver in the white car hopping onto the grass median to get to the left turn lane. Now I'm not trying to tell you that this happens every day. I know it does not. But you'd be surprised how often it does happen. More traffic from the proposed apartments and townhomes will only increase the frequency of midday congestion. Much less at rush hour.

3:31:34With respect to traffic, Mass has told us many times months ago. that the the savior of all this avid added traffic was going to be this vision road. But when I called the county, they said the Vision Road isn't approved, isn't funded. at the very least could be many years away if it happens at all. So that was the reassurance that they were trying to give to us. Flooding is also a consideration, as you can see from photos after our last heavy rain. Adding

3:32:04impervious services uh surfaces by way of parking lots and apartments is the last thing we need at Saddlebrook. Lastly, look at Saddlebrook at night. you can see that the main road is actually very dark and quiet. We don't want the bright lights flooding into our peaceful environment, nor do we want our quiet streets and entrances lit up with enhanced security. Saddlebrook is not consistent with a development that brings in high density housing. Saddlebrook is a gem and needs to be treated that

3:32:35way. Mass likes to give the impression that they have it all figured out with respect to the golf courses, but they w the answer they gave this distinguished gentleman here was the same answer they gave us months ago. So they don't have anyone hired that at least they're telling us about. Um growth and development is a part of natural, you know, of of our life and I understand that. But there comes a time, I believe, when we need to take a pause, step back, and ask whether we want to completely alter the character of a beloved and historic

3:33:05community like Saddlebrook. Thank you.

3:33:08Thank you very much.

3:33:26Hello everyone. My name is Lawrence Barbetta. Larry, please. Um, I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I live at [address removed]. I have a tough act to follow, my lovely wife. Um I have been sworn. Um I have been handed this, I apologize. I don't know all the elemental Ps, X, Y, Z and 123.231s that we've been hearing a lot about earlier today. I'm a lay person and I'm here because I love Saddlebrook, I

3:33:56love this community, and I love these people. I'm supposed to add this into the record. So may I please add the documents?

3:34:07Okay, it is. Um it's something in res regards to item A P dash eight P D D twenty three dash zero zero. It's a large scale plan amendment. C but what is

3:34:21what is it? Is there Report by somebody who I don't know what it is. It is how could you clarify

3:34:27it?

3:34:33Okay. It's

3:34:35a letter. It's a letter dating.

3:34:41Yeah,

3:34:41that'd be a lot better.

3:34:43It's hard enough on him now following his wife.

3:34:47Thank you, Chairman Mariano and I just I wanted to submit this into the the to into the record. Um this is the document that I had uh previously said it's the PowerPoint presentation, it's Save Saddlebrook's bylaws and mission statement, excerpts from the comp plan that are relevant, a nineteen seventy nine letter regarding the Saddlebrook resort, and Drew Rourke's report and resume.

3:35:12Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We have a remote motion. We have a motion to receive and file. We have a second of the discussion. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Like signed?

3:35:23Jamie

3:35:23I have the quicker. Yeah, sure.

3:35:30Bah. I got you off the hot seat there, see.

3:35:34I know. I know. So hopefully uh we make it through together, right? Okay, so um basically from an intro I told you that I'm an owner and resident Saddlebrook. Joanne more eloquently described the background of what we've had here and why we find this so special. Um a few things you should know. In addition to that, in response to what was happening with all of these plans. Um I and others formed something called the Safe Saddlebirth Coalition.

3:36:05Okay. Before I get into that, I and continue, I think it's important. Personally and on behalf of everyone involved in our community, I would like to thank Planning Commissioner Moody for pulling this original plan off the consent agenda in September and drawing our attention to this plan amendment. Um I think your instincts were proven quite keen today because there wasn't very much awareness of the details and I think by the turnout today you can see there is considerable interest. So we

3:36:35we we thank you for that, sir. Um The Safe Saddleburgh Coalition was formed. It's a nonprofit organization in response to these plans. We're dedicated to protecting the interest of the Saddleburg community and all of the property owners. Because Saddleburg was developed over time as five different property associations, so it's kind of hard to have, you know, there's different decision-making bodies. We also wanted to just make sure that what we did is work together. Two Focus

3:37:05on and assure that any development or redevelopment would be consistent with the values of our community across all homeowners. all areas of this community. Because there's many things that bring us together. Almost everything brings us together. Our our membership is open to any property owner in Saddlebrook and also for participation of any HOA. Okay, so it's a very much a grassroots organization just trying to be a common voice to help us. assure that what happens is consistent with the character

3:37:35of this beloved place.

3:37:42So Saddlebrook is a unique place. People you can't Build. History.

3:37:51Instantly. It's taken time to create What is a true world renowned Gem for Pasco County. and for Florida and unique in the world. It was Mr. Dempsey's vision from the beginning to create a world-class resort. And Saddlebrook. while aged has achieved that. We do need to do things to bring it back to its current You know, to its prior state of excellence. And we think

3:38:21that's important. Along those lines, to be clear. The coalition is not anti-development. We're not anti-business. That would be heretical. Many of us have started businesses, okay? And we also are not anti-mass capital. But what we must do is assure that any development or redevelopment is consistent with the values and character of our community.

3:38:47Saddlebrook the core of Saddlebrook is its athletic heritage. Okay? This is not just some tennis courts. This is the training ground of some of the Champions of the world. Not only do they train there, they grew up there as children. They went to school there. And they come back there. They own homes there. Many of them still live there. Similarly with golf. It's one of the first Palmer Design courses in the early days, and it is unique in that regard. Also, it's a

3:39:18has a golf academy that's produced, among many others, a the National Junior Champion. and last year's PGA champion and rookie of the year. So that's quite a unique heritage and something that we think is critical and must be built upon because that's the magnet that brings everything to that community. That's what brings children to train. It's what brings adult enthusiasts to come. Does that mean that's the right-of-way.

3:39:51Okay, thank you. Okay. I'll I'll I promise I'll be sensitive to time. We're all don't wanna be between everybody's dinner and hopefully, you know, beverage of choice. Okay. So it is this reputation that draws people to Saddlebrook. It's also what draws businesses and major events. You know, the major events for the Super Bowl were hosted there. Um Governor DeSantis recently had a major event there. I mean, all all sorts of things. So that is the core and the magnet

3:40:22that makes everything at Saddlebrook work. It's also a place where many successful professionals have moved, lived, contributed to the community. Their families are there and they grow up. It's also a wonderful and harmonious place for people to live out the later years and for retirement. These plans that we're talking about On a personal level. really affect us. Okay, I don't know really what this darn slide means to be clear, but what I learned is that the pink part, which is all of this stuff, that's recreational

3:40:52use. This is the Pasco County GIS map of current land use. And the green stuff, which is when you come into Saddleburgh, that's forest. That's what it's that's so that's how that's all set up for current land use. Now what's disturbing and concerning to me in that area, and there's others

3:41:14And this is what it looks like. You've seen it, and if you don't see it, come. We'll see it together. It's beautiful. That's even the driving range. Okay, the rest is prettier. Okay. Now this is the plans that have been submitted. Again, I'm a layperson. I don't understand too much, but I understand that I that this is not consistent with the character of what we have. How does that oh n before I get into

3:41:44that thing Um okay, so we're talking about putting in 500 new units in what was a green space golf course. We're putting in com 100,000 square feet of commercial. This I I don't understand how that enhances or connects to our community. And it's very sad to us to see that. The other thing, on inside, like you were asking uh another gentleman and you know, he he doesn't live there. We live there. We have a lot of concern when we hear these

3:42:15different words. I as I understand from you you esteemed gentlemen and doing some research it's that res six means something. And it also allows recreational use, I've heard. So that's what a golf course is. So why are we changing it? If the intent is to keep it for golf, why does it have to be changed to a thing called PD, which I don't understand, but apparently can mean a whole lot of things. I don't know what. But I do know that I don't want my parents' retirement house, who live on a golf fairway

3:42:45right now, in their 80s. Turned into looking at God knows what. And if we had a plan to respond to or react to I assure you we would come forth. We want to s we want to encourage investment enhancement in this community. We definitely do. But I cannot accept, and the coalition cannot accept, a complete lack of detail. That has been provided. There's no idea where the holes will go. There's no idea where the driving range will land. That's not written

3:43:15anywhere. I've seen PowerPoints. I that's not what I understand is in front of you and potentially the commissioners. So I apologize if I'm a little steamed. This is really important to us. It's incredibly important to us. It's it it's our lives. It's not BS. It's not posturing. You know, so this lack of clarity and specificity. This crazy language which means goodness knows what on the golf course makes no comment on the

3:43:45tennis courts, by the way, which are also covered under a development area. We don't know what's going to be protected. Give us some data. We're reasonable people. We will work to do that. But because there is a lack of that information, We respectfully request that you deny the plan that's in front of you. We need detail we need to have things that are consistent with the character of our community and our quality of life. And we're relying on you to help us. Safe

3:44:16saddlebrook. Thank you. Thank you.

3:44:23Sir, sir, sir before you sit down. First of all I want to compliment you, you did a way better job than the high priced attorneys and

3:44:36the other.

3:44:36Thank

3:44:37you. Okay. That

3:44:38doesn't mean you're getting paid anything.

3:44:40I was gonna say so. Can I g can I give someone the bill? Thank you again for your time. Thanks everyone here for your showing up and for your time.

3:44:53Anyone else would like to speak?

3:44:56Right.

3:44:59Again, the uh one thing that I would like to do is to please Give us something new. Don't repeat something that somebody else has already told us.

3:45:13We can have your name and address, sir.

3:45:14Patrick Hogan, [address removed]. Okay. You've been sworn. Thank you. I've been sworn in. Thank you very much. And I've been taking notes madly here as everybody was speaking because I did overlap, so I I'll do the best I can, I really will, and uh and not uh not overlapping. Uh a little bit about uh about uh my story and with my wife. We um we're newbies to Saddlebrook. Uh we only bought in 2019, but

3:45:44we bought this our second home already because. because we love the place so much. A couple of things. One is that we bought the home with an expectation and we're on a we were on a golf course. We bought in once, when we bought in, we re-upped again and invested heavily again. We're on the Palmer course. It's a Palmer course. We heard someone say earlier that oh we're looking at another golf architect. There's a few of them around. There's only one Arnold.

3:46:15If you're a golfer, it's Arnold. It really is sad. And it affects the value of our homes. That's what we're concerned about. Um At the time we we bought the second home, the resort had been sold and we were really excited about it. We thought it was good positive news. One of the problems that we have with that is a lack of clarity, which is something that Larry said. But one thing I will say it in addition to the lack of clarity is that it seems like the The uh plan is getting made up as we go

3:46:45along. For example, the road that was coming down into Saddlebrook out of the that and I don't have a power point, but that where the gul where the driving range is, in that road that comes down on the west side. They said it was for a trail for Golf carts or bikes. We're a gated community. We don't let people in unless it goes through the guard house. There wasn't a mention of the guard house. They're just wide open. Let them come in, let them go. Who knows who who comes in. As a

3:47:15resident, that's a problem for us. Um I'm sorry, I gotta look at my notes again because One thing that the the current amendment Oh my god. You have another minute. One minute. One more minute. Okay. The proposed amendment that that's there now really does nothing to um improve the improve the resort force. As we uh I think there's a few questions about timing. And you got kind of a fuzzy answer, which is the answers

3:47:46we've been getting all along to our questions. What's the timing? If we're going to be without a golf course, what's going to happen? How is that all going to happen? There's nothing that way. It does nothing to help out upgrade the resort, which is what the up the the resort really needs. Right now we've got a tired resort. It's been around a long time. It needs money, that's for sure. We're not a right we're not opposed to development. You've heard us all say that. We're not opposed to it, but we want planned development, not this open-end develop. Make it up as we go along. and we'll

3:48:16tell 'em exactly what they think we want to hear. And maybe we'll get this RAM through and our our our actual Biggest fear is that what will happen is that they'll get the thing approved here, they'll develop it. They'll make a whole lot of money and you guys all know the kind of money that can be made in that that front corner. They'll make that money. And it'll be adios and they'll attempt to sell the rest of it out and it'll be a total failure. So it's up to all of us here to make sure Saddlebrook exists

3:48:46and lives up to its former glory.

3:48:49Thanks. Thank you very much.

3:48:57Hi, my name is Denise Reichenbach. I've been sworn in. I live at [address removed]. And if you were to take a look at a map, you would see that my husband and I are kind of the lucky losers in this whole thing. That our house, which now has a 180-degree view of some of the Palmer Golf Course and Saddlebrook Golf Course, is looking at that area four, which you or somebody was asking about earlier. What's going to happen with those nine holes, right? So I think the point

3:49:27here that We want to make is that we specifically bought the house that we did. because of the view and it was adjacent to golf course. In fact it was adjacent to a couple holes of a golf course. Our property taxes are based on that we have a golf course view. That's what it says on the on the uh website, right? And um that's why we bought it. I think what a lot of people have already said is what's been frustrating is that we don't have any clarity of what's going to happen. And it's clear

3:49:57to me now, especially today, and looking at um all the plans that they went through, is that the only reason that they need to change the southeast corner is to make room for Area number one, the development of all those apartments and the strip malls and and and that type of thing. So that's the reason also for the change from going from thirty-six holes to twenty-seven holes. So I guess my point to you is just that We're Rick and I, my husband, we're looking

3:50:27to you to to protect the value of our home, to prect protect our investment, and that we don't think that an investor should be able to benefit at the detriment of our investment. That's all I had to say. Thank you.

3:50:50Hello, good afternoon. My name is Jacqueline May, my husband Dean May. We live at [address removed] and I have been sworn in. Um, we are not wealthy retirees, we are not snowbirds, we both work for the county. I teach for Pasco Hernando State College and my husband works for Parks and Wreck and This is our nest egg. This is our retirement. This is what we've worked our whole lives for. And we could have bought in a new development. We could

3:51:20have bought a brand new home. But we bought a thirty five year old home that needs updating that we will probably never update. That we bought that home because of the view. and we spend many, many hours on our back porch enjoying that view.

3:51:41We love nature.

3:51:43Take your time. Take a deep breath.

3:51:47And It hurts my heart when developers come in and mow down every tree. to get every dollar out of every inch of land. And that's why we bought in Saddlebrook. And I just ask that you preserve that quality of life for us. There was more, but I'm gonna stop there.

3:52:07Okay, thank you very much.

3:52:16Good afternoon, Commissioner, Board of Directors. Uh my name is Andy Call. I reside at [address removed] in Saddlebrook. I have been sworn in. I come to you today as I have some concerns with the projects that are being put in place in Saddlebrook. I moved into Saddlebrook about a year and a half ago after twenty-five years in the army. I chose this community as it offered seclusion from the city lights and a sense of living, of being in a rainforest with natural beauty and wetlands.

3:52:48I agree our community does need a lot of cosmetic work. But I will say Based off the presentations that's been given to us It has been confusing every month that we are giving some type of email or slide deck or whatever. I'm not no community planner. I don't know these codes or anything like that, so I've had to do a lot of research myself to understand just what the heck is going on in our community.

3:53:20I agree that we have a lot of work that has to be accomplished in the coming years. But I really think they need to slow down. We need to look at the environmental impact. That is gonna Come upon Saddlebrook, and I'm sure everybody on this panel has been to Saddlebrook. We have the most beautiful wetlands, wildlife, It it's just beautiful. You you you just can't make this stuff up. It's not just any other zip

3:53:50code. I also have issues with the traffic that is being associated with these additions. We have no sidewalks. Which makes the roads narrow, but we have a lot of children that rides bikes. I am an avid runner. I run on a daily basis. It's dangerous now with the traffic. So what the heck is gonna happen when we do get more traffic? So we need to take that into concern. Looking at blueprints and talking about how you want to build a community is one thing, but you truly don't

3:54:20understand the impact unless you live in our community. We are blessed with such natural beauty that you cannot find anywhere. I'm almost done. Uh Let me ask you, what would what in the w what what would you do If the world did not have plants, wildlife, and animals. And then you substituted it for condos, apartments, and retail. The way we're going now, that's what's going to transpire. We're giving up all this beautiful

3:54:51land we got just so that they can make money. That's what it deals with. Money. So in closing I say I was raised by my parents to think before you speak. So I'm asking you, as a board, think about our community impact before you make a decision. I yield back to you. Thank you.

3:55:19Good afternoon. I'm Nancy Foster. I live at [address removed]. and I'm in Saddleback. I am the first house. So if that gate is moved, it'll be almost in front of my house, which means I'll have traffic there all the time. So I want to read to you kind of what what it's like from my view living in Saddlebrook. And I'll try to skip over things that have been mentioned, okay? Um, I've lived there in this wor uh world-renowned uh

3:55:49resort for 23 years. I came here to improve my tennis game. I also became an official for junior tennis tournaments. While living here, I've been privileged to watch pro tennis players practice and train, and you've heard those famous names already. We have courts that provide for these players to play at Wimbledon. the French Open, the Australian Open, and of course at home at the US Open. That's why they come here.

3:56:20Keeping the tennis courts and golf courses are important to the purpose of the resort. Harry Hopman, an Australian who was well known in the tennis world, established the tennis program, while Arnold Palmer designed the two golf courses. Whether you are an adult teen or young child, the tennis and golf programs at Saddlebrook conduct clinics and individual instructions. from qualified coaches. Those coming to Saddlebrook expect to leave, improving

3:56:51their skills to compete. or improving their ranking in the world of golf or tennis. They expect to play eighteen holes, no matter which course is played. and in tennis to play on different surfaces. Altering the Saddlebrook landscape will diminish the ability to provide a quality golf and tennis program. Saddlebrook Resort is a high-end resort that attracts players from around the world to experience the

3:57:21quality of the golf and tennis that has made Saddlebrook a legend. On a personal note, I want to talk about the wildlife. Do I have some extra?

3:57:33It is home to many wildlife and an abundance of variety of plants. There is a hawk who announces his arrival as he flies over my house every day. A coyote visiting my back porch, taking a nap. A Bobcat. Checking out my backyard. Then the deer arrive. The many wild turkeys with their young marching through. Let me not forget the otters, turtles, and especially the

3:58:03owls keeping a watch over my pet bird that is fortunately living in the house. I remember my granddaughter and I having a visit by three barned owls. How majestic they were. Everywhere I go on my golf cart, I see wildlife that make their home here. It warms my heart that Saddlebrook is their home too. Protecting our wildlife helps the wetlands and ecosystem that exists

3:58:33and will be altered by restructuring the landscape. Thank you.

3:58:37Thank you very much.

3:58:47Uh good afternoon. Uh my name is David Shachter. I've been sworn in. Uh I live uh with my wife at [address removed].

3:58:54David, I'm sorry, David. What's your address?

3:58:57Uh yeah, [address removed] in Saddlebrook. We moved here in 2013 with our son. Our son gr actually graduated from the Saddlebrook Academy. Open spaces, vibrant places. That is the logo that appears on all of Pasco County's websites, vehicles, and letterheads. We chose to live in the Saddlebrook community because of what Saddlebrook offered. We wanted to a neighborhood where you can walk and jog on

3:59:27the road. where you can ride your bicycles without fear of being run down by a car, a place where homes are not squeezed tightly next to each other. We chose to live at Saddlebrook because we wanted to live on a golf course, to enjoy the greenery, to see the turtles and the alligators gather at the ponds. to see the beautiful birds, the giant red headed woodpeckers walking up an old pine tree, the giant majestic sand cranes walking across our lawns, We chose to live at Saddlebrook to enjoy walking

3:59:57under the beautiful giant live oaks and palm trees, to hear the birds chirping in the mornings, and the screech of the many hawks and owls. to see the occasional Bobcat We chose to live at Saddlebrook because of the wonderful sense of beauty and tranquility So we can cross the street barefooted to chat with our wonderful neighbors, so we could walk our dogs and go on bike rides without fear of being hit by fast moving cars. We chose to live at Saddlebrook so that our son could ride

4:00:27his bicycle to school and tennis, We chose to live at Saddlebrook because it's gated and has security. Mass capital will tell you they are making an investment. But what about our investment? The residents of Saddlebrook have also invested in this community. We did this not just simply to see our home values rise, but we understood that living in a community like this required investment in the preservation of its beauty.

4:00:56Excuse me one second, I lost my place. Uh carried away there. You're doing so good. Excuse me one second.

4:01:07And its uniqueness. Please honor our investment also. But now Mass Capital wants to destroy our beautiful community. Mass Capital is not interested in the resort business. They are not interested in revitalizing a once beautiful resort that held weddings, golf and tennis tournaments, and business conventions. You saw this man's presentation of the resort renovation design plans. Did you get those pictures from Home and Garden magazine? A third grader could have

4:01:37presented a better hotel renovation plan. His resort renovation plan is perfunctory and purposely without detail because most cap Mass Capital is not serious in making a premier hotel resort. Don't be deceived. Mass Capital is only interested in grabbing the land and golf courses to develop homes, giant four story apartment complexes, and businesses for their own greed. Mass capital is not interested in saddlebook resonance. It's all about greed and profit. I'm almost done. The proposal to build a quote town

4:02:07center with restaurants, businesses and offices and a six hundred unit apartment complex at the front of Saddlebrook entrance is insane and irresponsible. It will bring traffic and pollution and noise. How in the world are Saddlebrook residents going to get off the Saddlebrook Route uh onto Route 54 with this added congestion? This is absolutely insane. It's all about greed and profit. We are the families that live in Saddlebrick. We all do respect County commissioners. You have the responsibility to its residents

4:02:38I ask, would any of you sitting on your on the board here Want your own neighborhoods destroyed by corporate greed. I submit to the County Commissioners to please do not fall for the tricks of this mendacious, deceitful company like Mass Capital. Again, remember your own logo that appears at Pasco County website. Open spaces, vibrant places. Thank

4:03:02you for your time. Excuse me. Before you before you hold your applause. Before you step away, I just want you to know before anybody else comes up here again, I'm not gonna sit here and allow anyone to disparage another person or their company. I think that undermines your purpose. And I think that's very low class. Don't let that happen again.

4:03:26Okay, thank you.

4:03:36Yeah.

4:03:37Hi, my name is Kenneth Marchine. Martinez. I'm [address removed]. I own a ranch over there, Kennedy Ranch, next to the Golf of Savo Brook. Um we live in Williams Acres Part 2 and we haven't been informed about this development is going to be developed next to our neighborhood. Approximately we have 89 families and we've been affected in the past by floods, by distribution of water, in which Pasco County put a mitigation pond across the street next to the Wesley Chapel

4:04:07Loop and State Route 54 in which is still affecting. us. So you can imagine the development of this project next to our community, the impact that we provide to my community. So nobody here I'm I moved from this community 20 years ago and been fighting with the county about the mitigation water because my my my community flood but also Sarobruk is flaat. So we haven't taken consideration the 150 year water, um um um stormwater in which has been developed.

4:04:38This is a big issue. Um we live in the flood area. We if this is if this is problem, if it's not correct, my community will be flooded and we'll not will tolerate that happening again. So and in behalf of Williams Account Pasco and Kennedy Ranch, I advise I ask you, please take a look at the impact of the neighbourhood Of Wesley Chapel because we still the way that we're going, we're gonna

4:05:08destroy this town. And we will not trees, it will our key will not have oxygen. The pollution is getting worse day and day. You walk in the Wesley Chapel Street and State Road 54 is garbage everywhere. I mean, this is this is not a place that moved 20 years ago when they Wearing cowboy hats. This is different. This is going to the way of destruction. We're still proving this without looking back what happened in the past, we

4:05:39are gonna be destroyed. Thank you so much.

4:05:42Thank you.

4:05:53Good evening. Uh my name is Colin Burns. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook. And uh Chairman, I have been sworn in. Uh thank you for the opportunity to voice uh some concerns I have for this amendment. Um just as a background, I'm 14 days away from celebrating my 30th uh year in public safety in both the fire service and law enforcement. And my concern is with this, the effect that this development is going to have on public safety resources within the Pasco County

4:06:24region of Wesley Chapel. Um The proposal will absolutely affect uh the public safety resources we have. And I understand and and of course I've testified before these boards before and and many different commissions, I understand there are formulas that we use to calculate the types of resources we need to respond to the population and the dwellings and the structures within certain areas. A lot of those formulas I was actually there when they were

4:06:54created. The one thing or the flaw that I will say with the form formulas that we use for providing public safety is that when we did write the formulas, we never took into account the active threat situations and the current situations in our societal structure that we're facing today. Now we're three years into a pandemic. None of us, when we wrote those formulas as how we're going to address public safety took into account the toll that a pandemic

4:07:25and the different activities that happen in our society today will take on our public safety resources. That being said And listening to the concerns of of my fellow neighbors and our team that we have here. I don't feel that this resort is necessary to e or excuse me, this amendment is necessary to go through and this proposal is necessary to be built to put that strain on the public safety resources that we have. I ask you to consider

4:07:55these current circumstances that we're dealing with in the public safety realm. Recruitment is down. It's down across the country. We're having a difficult time finding people to serve in those roles to serve you and the rest of the citizens. Costs for retaining those people are extremely high at this point in time. So it is a certain drain on us. We're facing these new threats. We've met a few that we never predicted would come to us, but we don't know what's going to

4:08:25come in the next coming years. We can only guess and we can only propose that these things that we're going to face are going to get worse. And I truly ask when we talk about public safety resources. That we associate a face with that resource. It's not a fire truck, it's not a police car. We have one of our brave warriors sitting in the back of the room. That's the face of the public safety resources that are coming to help our citizens. So I ask you to consider the strain and the effect it's going to have on those

4:08:56resources, those people that are serving us.

4:09:00Mm-hmm.

4:09:01Sir, can I ask you a question? Yes, sir. First of all, I do appreciate you bringing up a new issue. Um I'm but I'm I guess I'm confused because staff apparently sent this proposal to the Sheriff's Office, sent this proposal to fire rescue, and our agenda memo says they provided no comments. So I'm trying to figure out where the disconnect is. You're saying there's a real public safety impact.

4:09:30I do.

4:09:31But when we our staff asked the very people that are in charge of public safety, the response they got was no comments. What what's the where's the disc why why is it happening?

4:09:42Certainly a question I asked myself when I found out there was no comment from either the Pasco County Sheriff's Office or Pasco County Fire Rescue. I found that very hard to believe. I can tell you in my almost 30-year career, never ever would a development come past my desk where I would not respond with the concern or the the constraint that that will put on our service. I came from a city where we built multiple high rises. We went from a city that started at six to ten stories and we got up to 44 stories, which

4:10:12was a considerable strain on our resources, our equipment, and our cost. So there was never a time that I never resp or that I didn't respond to a request for this proposal. I find it very interesting that Pasco County Sheriff and Pasco County Fire Rescue did not respond. Yeah.

4:10:28I'm just saying that it's gonna be difficult for our planning department to address these types of concerns when the very agencies that are charged with monitoring this are not giving us comments.

4:10:39Absolutely, sir. And I I wouldn't wanna, you know, presume why they didn't respond. I certainly have my personal feelings, but uh I can't, you know, I wouldn't want to put that on the record as to why they didn't respond.

4:10:50I'm saying you may need to have a conversation with those departments because that's what's in our record right now. Are you are you working there now?

4:10:59No, I do not work for Pasco Sheriff or Pasco Fire Rescue.

4:11:05All right. Do we finish with your comments or not?

4:11:08Uh yes sir.

4:11:09Okay, thank you.

4:11:09Thank you very much.

4:11:16break? Hi. I just keep swallowing [address removed]. I've I've been out there since 1980 when we first bought the property. We uh maybe when the first one was out there, when the first one was out there. We uh rather long enough that my wife went to go to the grocery store, it took her fifteen minutes to drive on the Bears Avenue spy groceries. Things have changed. Used to take us one minute to get to the interstate from Saddlebrook. Now it takes us a couple days. But uh my my concerns

4:11:47is that we live right on the golf course and we're looking At the resort. And we know the inside's a little bit, but it looks nice, it looks great. You know, and we feel like we're At the resort herself, uh because we're sitting there back for which eating breakfast. or we dropped a couple of golf balls in the backyard and hit onto the green, at least my son's hit on the green, I hit halfway up there. But uh I we didn't play tennis, but they were high school Americans. But it's g in golf. But it it's it's a great place. My my

4:12:17real concern is what's going to happen to this conduit that I'm looking at. Those real condos are owned by investors. And they rent them out. If the range is sold for apartments, There's no one left to use the condos because they were talking about already they're gonna use the new apartments for the the people who live there all stay at. So now those people aren't gonna be there. I'm I'm kinda worried that the range is sold. Otto Palmer Academy probably won't stay because they don't have their facility right there with them.

4:12:47If Academy leaves You know what happened to people there for the school? If the school closes It won't be a tennis academy. Uh it's a snowball thing. And I I'm just worried that when that happens, it just spells a doom for Sally Brook. I hate to see the Rames leave Because when you drive it, it's gorgeous. It's why we bought a resolution. We brought in you on the woods on one side, there's range on the other side. Back the back in the eighty it was like that. And it was and it was perfect. It was quiet. It was peaceful. resort,

4:13:18brings them a lot of people, but it's they've done a great job with it. They had no problem with when they bought it. And and we just love living there. Please don't change it. Thanks.

4:13:27Thank you very much. Thank you.

4:13:32We're gonna take a five minute recess, please.

4:23:23Yeah. Mm-hmm.

4:23:41I know, mean it is. I'm not big at I'm big on that.

4:23:48All right, everybody please take your seat.

4:23:55Get all that talking out of the way now maybe we can Maybe everybody's out of air, I don't know.

4:24:05Okay. We got the lineup over there. Who's next? Oh, there you go.

4:24:11Thanks for the break. Appreciate it. Sure. Uh my name is Ad Depot. Reside at uh [address removed]. Uh Swarm Day. Uh my conversation was gonna focus on three primary items character, density, and personal things. Um to really can't say much about character anymore. I re all my predecessors have done a fantastic job, so I'll kind of skip over that. Uh but one thing to uh focus over there is that it's pretty much the only tranquil place left in Westy Chapel. Like as soon as you step outside.

4:24:40Right.

4:24:41It's uh It's a constant construction zone. Like, you know, I work from home Bit of a misinformed person, don't really get to see much outside, but every time out there I'm wondering what part of Wesley Chapel has gonna start developing now. That development for me has actually come in in our house now, right? Literally my backyard. But anyway, I'll skip over the character. My predecessors have done a great job there. The second point I have is density. Uh Sarrebrook has about 900 or so residences. Right now, and this mass

4:25:11capital's proposal is additional 650 plus residences. Essentially, they're taking it about 20-30 percent. I can't, I I don't have the phone numbers, right? But if you look at the maps and those color-coded air areas, you can see it's about 20-30 percent of the Saddlebrook area, and they're literally almost doubling the population of Saddlebrook, the confined space. uh by it um utilizing about twenty, thirty percent of it, right? That's gonna have serious stress on our infrastructure. Yes, granted they're

4:25:41adding additional road and all that, but to really figure out, like it's gonna lose a character. You're doubling the population of a confined area that has a lot of history for it. And from the personal per perspective, uh the area four that's been highlighted at golf only area doesn't really have any plan for it. Uh my predecessor Denise, my neighbor, has already pointed out that like you know it's literally in our backyard. Uh if you actually check step in my backyard, all you see is golf courses, there's really nothing else. Now

4:26:11the area is to be determined, right? That could be anything in there, it's uh Um Uh there there's open language about it and I'm concerned that it may not be an open area that we're used to looking at. So I'll look at my backyard and it's not gonna look anything like it uh come tomorrow. So I just have one uh I know maybe running out of time, but just one little analogy I wanted to do for those of you familiar with the Disney movie Yup. Uh I feel like uh Mr. Frederson now. It's a matter of time before I have to lift up the house and

4:26:41to s go somewhere else. I want to say thank you to Mass Capital. Uh you guys I do appreciate that your your efforts and uh focus on improving the resort facilities, uh but overall the construction and the personal usage space, additional residences, um it just not fitting within the saddle boot way of life. Thank you.

4:27:01Thank you.

4:27:08Hi, my name is Angela Weiss. I live at [address removed]. I've been sworn in I have a brand new topic. First and foremost, I've been to lots of Mass Capital meetings and the information is ever-changing and inconsistent. Every time I attend a meeting, it's something different. But anyway, I have three kids that attend Wesley Chapel Elementary School and will be attending Weightman Middle next year. I've resided in Pasco County since 1997 and have taught at Pasco Elementary School for 15 years. Over

4:27:39the last twenty-five years of living on the east side of Pasco County, I have seen a tremendous amount of growth, especially in the Wesley Chapel area. We moved from Lake Jabita and Dade City in 2014 from our half acre lot. into our beautiful Saddlebird community which offered a more natural preserve inside the middle of Wesley Chapel. I love I love the neighborhood. It's our little slice of Mayberry here. One of my biggest concerns is the continued strain and overcrowding of our Pasco County schools. We have a shortage of instructional staff, meaning

4:28:09teachers, teacher assistants, speech pathologists, and non-instructional staff. That includes bus drivers, custodians, and cafeteria staff. More students will affect current school zoning, which for me means my kids may not be going to Weightman Middle or Wesley Chapel High School. in the future, all of which are excellent schools and we had intentions of sending them there. With an increased school population coming to the Saddleburgh area, school boundaries will change. I feel that adding 450 or whatever the number is

4:28:39homes coming will negatively impact our current situation because of the volume of students. School times have changed multiple times within the school year in order to accommodate the students. Buses have had to do double runs, leaving kids at school, after school, in a classroom over an hour before the bus can get them home. Um This causes undue stress to the kids and especially even getting there in the morning and they're not marked tardy but they are tardy and therefore they're missing some schoolwork and this is not

4:29:10conducive to the learning environment. In closing, 450 or more homes will negatively impact our school system and put a strain on our existing problem.

4:29:20Ma'am, before you sit down, I do have a question for you and or Mr. Williams. So I'm gonna put him on the spot just like you did the fire rescue people and sheriff. So our staff report says under schools there are no concerns regarding the proposed comprehensive plan amendment. I'll ask Mr. Williams, is that accurate? Sure.

4:29:43Because, you know, keep in mind that the number of residents, you know, they're adding some multifamily and uh townhomes that that doesn't generate as many students as single family detached. So certainly Wesley Chapel Elementary is currently overcrowded. Several of the Wesley Chapel schools are overcrowded. But again, the number of units are actually lower than

4:30:13what they're entitled to in Saddleburg. So but that in mind we just opened our uh Kirkland Ranch Academy of Innovation to help with high school capacity. We have a brand new K-8 magnet being built on that campus that'll be a magnet that will draw students from this entire region. There are additional charter schools opening in the new in the near future that'll impact capacity in the Wesley

4:30:44Chapel area. We've bought additional land for options in the in the future. We have land right around the corner off of Meadow Point Boulevard that we can Build additional facilities as needed. Um certainly again, certainly those schools are over capacity right now, many of them. But again, the K you know the facilities we're building, we are looking to accommodate those.

4:31:13So in sum you think you are your plans are sufficient to accommodate the additional demand.

4:31:18Yes. Uh though the extra units They're adding to Saddlebrook, yes.

4:31:22Okay, that answers my question. Thank you, ma'am.

4:31:28Okay.

4:31:34I got a quartet.

4:31:36I've got a pack with me. I travel by pack.

4:31:39Have you all been sworn in?

4:31:40Uh I have been sworn in. They're just here for visual. They won't say anything. Oh, they're

4:31:44not saying anything?

4:31:44Nope. No, unless you ask them. Okay. Um My name is Julie Pines. I we live at [address removed] uh in Wesley Chapel. Uh I'm going to keep this brief because out of respect for your time, I know we've covered a lot of topics and of course mine was amazing my presentation, so I'm just gonna have to go by um We'll take your word for it. Thank you. About basically nature and the environment of why we bought where w where we live. We have two

4:32:14kids. We love the environment. We love all the trees. We love all the animals. We love the birds, are constantly in our yard. Um but we pulled our kids out of school today for a civics lesson purposely. Um and I respect the board, I respect your time and that you um take this very seriously and I wanted them to learn from this. So In talking to our neighbors, we've learned that for over forty years Saddlebrook has been a legacy property and that it is the crown jewel

4:32:45of Pasco County. We only moved here a year ago. So i it's very humbling for us to be a part of this. Saddlebrook is the reason that so much development has happened, according to our neighbors, and that this beautiful nature preserve is the reason for it. I understand that growth and progress are important for cities to evolve. I am in support of growth when it's a balanced approach. Mass Capital's proposal would fundamentally change the natural habitat for Saddlebrook and our neighborhood. So voting no will help us prevent mass

4:33:15from dismantling this legacy property for their own financial gain without regard for those of us that live there day to day. Um and basically I also want to just address quickly, we are condo owners. We own a home and a condo there. The the pictures that you did see in the presentation from Mass Capital of the inside of the rooms, those are paid for by us. They're asking an additional $30,000 to up to $60,000 per unit to upgrade it. They don't pay for it, we

4:33:46do. I also wanted to Noted that we pay a monthly membership fee for that resort that is in such disarray. The pool has been shut down so many times. We just had the health department out there to do an inspection. They are not putting the money that we are been giving them for the past 10 months into upgrading the resort. So it's important to us that my kids are able to use that resort. That's why we moved there. So in closing. I brought my kids here with us today to show them the importance of speaking up for what they believe in and to

4:34:16show them that respecting heritage is more important not just for themselves but for future generations. Thank you.

4:34:23Okay. Good job, Mom.

4:34:29And use them for visual also. And the pines and of course They're they're not as happy to be up here with you as they were. Well they tell me I speak too much, so I wrote it down to make sure it's concise. Um and of course I get to follow my wife. Nice job. Uh my name is Andrew Pines. Um my son Bryce, my daughter Jocelyn, of course my wife Julie just heard from. We live at [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Um we bought here And we're also condo owners as she mentioned. We moved here and bought

4:34:59a home last July. Um and we love how beautiful, safe, and convenient it is as as this community. Uh during the summer there was traffic on the 54 and uh It wasn't until the kids went back to school in August that we realized the driving at 7 30 in the morning that it when you turn out of Saddlebrook onto the 54, there's often bumper-to-bumper traffic just getting to the 75. Um the most frustrating part is when if you're not in the

4:35:29first six or seven cars that are sitting at that light, um you're gonna have to sit and wait for the next light before you even get into that traffic just to get to the seventy five. Uh in fact I took a picture just yesterday when I took the kids to school in the morning. We could go back one shot. Bra välkommen. the this was just yesterday. You can so you can see what I'm talking about, the build up and the weight, just to exit the only in and out currently today in Souterbrook. Um so uh

4:36:01So this is already a problem given the current number of residents and and with the relatively low resort occupancy. I can't imagine how much worse it's gonna get if the occup just with the occupancy increases, much less adding hundreds of more units, commercial and retail traffic. We'll never be able to get out of Xadlebrook as it seems. Uh and this could cause a very dangerous situation should there ever be an emergency which requires an evacuation. Yeah. Um the other thing was, you know, in November I received this in the mail. It's the Wesley Chapel neighborhood news

4:36:31and on the front cover, so you can see up here, more apartments are coming. And if you turn to uh the page inside, um I actually counted this up, right? And just uh within as it says as it stated within Wesley Chapel. Uh in and around Wesley Chapel there are twenty-four new family multifamily complexes around there that have yet to be moved into with seven thousand units that are still haven't occupied. If I could have one last minute. Uh please. Uh I counted eight of those just between the seventy-five

4:37:01and saddle and the set that are off of the they use the fifty-four as their primary thoroughway. There are eight of them with two thousand three hundred units again that have yet to be occupied. We need to brace ourselves for this additional traffic, significant wait times, uh when we're just simply gonna drive down the street to Publix, Walgreens, gas station or town. Take them just to and from school or to sports, much less, God forbid, need to get to the hospital or something. This proposal has a significant negative impact on us existing residents. They

4:37:32bought a world-renowned resort. I just wish they would focus on making it great again, which should equate to significant profits for them, for them, before even asking you guys permission to destroy our community. Please vote no on approving their request to do. Develop even more unneeded high density housing and retail in Saddlebrook. Thank you. Thank you very much.

4:37:53Can I have a question?

4:37:55Manton? Ma'am, I had a question for you. Or you could perhaps you can answer it. Um so ch uh she mentioned that um there is uh of the of the condo I guess it's the um uh hotel that's being remodeled. You said that's gonna be assessed against the There's gonna be an assessment you guys are paying for what you said?

4:38:17Yes, yes sir.

4:38:18So how's that gonna come through as a as a assessment to your HOA dues or

4:38:22no? It's you you pay directly.

4:38:24It's a it's a mandatory

4:38:25mandatory.

4:38:26We own a three-bedroom, and in fact they quote us seventy thousand dollars that we'll have to pay to upgrade the the condo just to get it to that level. So we're the ones paying to really update it. All you know what we'd like them to do

4:38:37is invest in the resort.

4:38:42The condo, which is what they

4:38:43use as hotel rooms. Which they use as hotel rooms. It's a rental pool. So we've commit we're allowed to use our condo forty five days a year. Outside of that, they get to use it as a hotel room for for their guests.

4:38:55So it's like sort of like a timeshare idea? Yeah.

4:39:00It's a rental pool.

4:39:01Similar though to a time share.

4:39:03So we pay the you know HOA, the maintenance, you know.

4:39:06Every month we're paying. And we pay

4:39:08we pay them a fee also.

4:39:09That's already in place, is that what you're telling me?

4:39:12Correct.

4:39:12Yes.

4:39:13Yep. So that's w that's what we're stepping into. So again, we're not against development. We want them to improve the resort, but we want them to focus on the resort first because we've already bought this condo and now they're asking they're going to ask for another seventy thousand, but yet they're asking for your this land to be developed. It's like wait, put your money in the resort first. Don't put your money in a huge development. You're leaving us all hanging. I mean there are five hundred plus owners of condos there that are all going to be asked to upgrade and put millions of dollars into this which

4:39:43we're willing to do but please start there first.

4:39:46So what happens if you can't or don't?

4:39:48Well then they get first read a refusal to buy it.

4:39:53We're in default penalties, you know, there's all kinds of rules in place that we have to basically.

4:39:58How how would you pay for that seventy thousand?

4:40:01They're requiring I mean they haven't they said they're looking at maybe a financial you know finance financing option. We haven't seen anything. We haven't seen anything. Um essentially we've been told we're expected to just s make sure we have that money up ready.

4:40:16Yes.

4:40:19No, we don't.

4:40:20They do. Okay. Do you get any reimbursement back when you rent it out? Like in timesharing and

4:40:27after they get paid their management fee, there's a split. We get forty-five percent of the uh amount of money that they charge for the hotel room. And if they create a golf package, they could say, you know, five dollars was for the hotel room and the rest goes for the goes for the golf package.

4:40:45I hate to interrupt. I'm trying to get some clarification here. I'm trying to focus in on the fee that they reimburse you when you rent your facility out, your condo out. You're saying 45%, 50%, what what what what's the new you the

4:41:02split of the revenue? I'm sorry, so well actually it's a pool, so all the costs. Owners split uh get 45% of the the net revenue after all expenses. Uh there's a formula that's been in place for a long time. So we get our we get our cut.

4:41:19But basically to answer your question, it's a loss. We haven't made any money. There could be a ton of people coming up here telling you about their condos and for years they haven't made money. So again we want them to develop and help build it, but focus on the resort first, not building your big development outside first because they've been letting it deteriorate for the past ten months.

4:41:38Where's your condo located in the resort? Oh, yeah. In the walking

4:41:42village.

4:41:42I'm sorry?

4:41:43In the walking cluster one,

4:41:44the walking

4:41:45village?

4:41:45Right near the pool. Right

4:41:46near the

4:41:46pool. Can somebody put a map up they could show us?

4:42:20Hmm?

4:42:41Right there, there's the uh swimming pool just northeast part.

4:42:48Okay, so that's in the red

4:42:49area. Red area on the pink up on the upper

4:43:02That little tiny.

4:43:07So that's this area of the plan? The red area.

4:43:13Can I ask them one question too? Yeah. So where do you live when your condo's being rented out?

4:43:19We live in Saddlebrook on [address removed]. We own a house to have a lot of people.

4:43:22So we're residents.

4:43:24And we own

4:43:24a condo. Okay, got it.

4:43:28Yeah, so we're entitled to stay in it

4:43:29or friends and family for forty five years.

4:43:34Yes.

4:43:35So there's a lot of people that own houses in condos

4:43:37in

4:43:37Saddleburgh.

4:43:38Correct. Yes, sir. Lots of

4:43:40required to, but they've been requiring it to buy a condo in order to be a member of Saddleburgh.

4:43:44You have to buy a p a condo. That's why we we couldn't be a member. When we bought our house ten months ago, they wouldn't allow us to be members of Saddleburgh. So we had to buy a condo so we could be a member and then we Spend all this money on a condo. We're like, what do we do? Look at this resort. We're praying that the developer will be a good idea.

4:44:00I think it's important that you know that they have right of first refusal for all condos, which means if they if the resort deteriorates, the value of the condos will go down and they get to snatch them up and build them up and do what they want with them. They already own a few hundred which they bought from Demseed, right? But those of what there's you know the majority are still individual. Individual owners like ourselves, and we're seeing it just continue to deteriorate the value of our condos, and it only benefits them if it goes down because they can snatch them all up and take over and use them as hotels, and

4:44:30we get stuck with losing our value of those condos. And of course, it affects our home values as well, too, living in Sababrook.

4:44:37How much do you how much do you you don't mind me asking? How much did you pay for the condo? 130,000.

4:44:42thousand dollars.

4:44:43It was a lot of money.

4:44:44Yeah. Um

4:44:46how many square feet?

4:44:49It's two units.

4:44:50It's two units.

4:45:00Gotcha.

4:45:01Yeah, but a hundred thirty thousand for how many square feet?

4:45:05nineteen. Fifteen nineteen. That's a real estate agent. That's a realtor. Fifteen nineteen.

4:45:15Okay.

4:45:17Any other questions? Thank you. Thank you, you're off the hot seat.

4:45:25Okay. Hi. Uh my name is uh Israel. I live in [address removed] on a condo which is not like those condos. My condo is a straight out condo where I own it and uh it's I use it all the time. Or I can rent it. Uh so I came here in 2005 and I didn't just cross cabacros the United States. I came from a different continent. We were looking for a tennis school for my kids. I went

4:45:55to the three most famous tennis schools, which is the Boliteri and the uh with the one in Bocaraton, and then I came to Saddlebrook. It was the third place that that we visited and then the moment I went to the bridge, which is right by the resort, I was like mesmerized because it's like a bird sanctuary. There were like hundreds and hundreds of white birds over there and every year they come here and they they lay their eggs. and they m they

4:46:26uh their babies are grown and whatever. So I was like I said I should live here. So we went I went and I bought a condo and then I started living here. Both my kids grew at the school there. That school is uh one in a million. You have people from forty, fifty nationalities over there. That gives a lot of exposure. It's like an international. I have friends and all these people who come to the school, they buy houses. They either rent houses or they buy houses.

4:46:56So through time, of course, that the whole lack or neglect ended up being school going from a size of 200 to maybe 100 or 670, 80 students. course the demand for the houses have gone down but I have lived there there ever since 2005 and never once I locked my doors. That's how secure Saddleburg is. Never had an incident. you know, uh except for the one time that I was out and

4:47:26the doors were locked. So never had an instant. That's half security. So I'm a single mom. And it's very important for me to have a security and that's how secure status work is. You asked a question to the guy that was doing the planning, you know, and uh I just wanna tell you I saw that single road turn into like six lanes in front of Saddlebrook. At first I thought, oh, this is so nice. Now it's bumper to bumper. So the way the West

4:47:57Chapel is developing, I'm a realtor now, so I see all the new developments and I sell those new developments, unfortunately. But still, you know, I see what they bring to the I mean it's good that we have development, you know, but it's really sad because I think there are three issues to summarize. One is the traffic. The second one is the security and third is the wildlife. That birth saturity is gonna be gone. The moment you start building all these high buildings, it's it's gonna block their ways. This it's gonna be gone. So I

4:48:27really urge you to reconsider this because of the fact that you know this is destroying more than what they're it's bringing to the to the community. Thank you.

4:48:50Hello, I've been sworn in. I'm Liz Alonzo. I'm a realtor at Saddlebrook. And I've been doing this, this is my thirty-third year.

4:48:59What's your address? I'm sorry.

4:49:01Sorry.

4:49:02Your address?

4:49:03I couldn't hear you.

4:49:04Your adjuv.

4:49:06[address removed]. Uh back up to the grass tennis courts that used to be there until they came to the easy.

4:49:13Were

4:49:13you sworn?

4:49:14Were you did you swear in at the beginning?

4:49:16Yes, I did when everyone else swore in. Yes. I wasn't going to speak because they many people here that spoke uh on the last one only because you were asking questions about the condo hotels. There's five hundred and eight condo hotels. They are owned by individuals. They buy them, they let the resort use them, they sign an agency agreement, they let them use the hotel use them as if it's theirs. And then they put if you buy

4:49:46a one bedroom Then They put all those hundred and five one bedrooms together and every three months, every quarter, they calculate how much revenue came in, there's a formula, and then after the expenses, and depending on how much People came in, they divide that, 55% goes to the resort and 45% goes to the owner.

4:50:14Uh nineteen eighty seven. It has been a loss every year. They have not made any money. How many have been sold? Out of five hundred and eight. Few people love saddle rope. They don't want to leave. I have This year I've sold maybe ten. Right now there's six on the market out of five hundred and eight. People just love Sandbrook. They're not they're losing

4:50:45money. Set uh uh Mass Capital came February 28th. I asked them, I was working with uh Cassie Resnick and I asked her, I said What she asked me, what can you do to help us? Tell us what we need. I said, we need more membership types. Because the people are getting older of some groups. They'd like to have five membership types, not just a full membership. She says, that's a good idea. We'll work on that. It's been 10, 11 months now.

4:51:15Nothing's been changed. In fact, they cut off all membership. Yeah. So I couldn't sell anything. I sold 88 homes, properties in Saddlebrook last year. I'm number two in the state of Florida of all Century 21 realtors. That's very difficult to do when I'm only selling Saddlebrook. I don't go outside the gates. Why do we stop memberships when we can't sell them? I can't sell them? Maybe they want to see a loss so that they have something to

4:51:45say. I don't understand it. We need to keep Saddlebrook beautiful, which is what everyone here has said, and everyone here loves Saddlebrook. They say they had 90% increase in in their in here. It's been a 12% occupancy here. In their condo hotels. It hasn't been 90%. Everyone here that owns a condo knows it's been a loss. They haven't made any money. So that's what I can tell you about real estate

4:52:15and salad. That's all I sell. Thank you.

4:52:19Thank you.

4:52:36My name is Judith Ronells and I live at [address removed] and I have not been sworn in.

4:52:42Okay, well it's ever sworn in.

4:52:45Do you swear on how you're testimony about the truth? Yes.

4:52:52Thank you for allowing me to share my deep concerns regarding this proposal by Mass Capital. I have been a resident of Saddlebrook since nineteen eighty eight, over thirty years. Driving home and entering the neighborhood has always felt like entering an oasis. A beautiful, quiet, natural haven. I would always sigh with contentment I was home. Saddlebrook has been a small, stable community with beloved open space, safe roadways, caring neighbors, and abundant wildlife.

4:53:23Now our peaceful way of life is threatened by those who seek to build and cash in for themselves and their investors. Mass Capital purchased the property in February. and it appears they have done little to improve it, instead scheming to rezone and repurpose the entire property. They have consistently misrepresented and camouflaged their intentions With attempts to manipulate the Pasco County Commission and our residents into accepting their proposals. They

4:53:53have a history of deceiving the public. In 2017, they sold the Miami River Commission on a proposal to build a small public park along with two residential towers, totaling 700 apartments. This was presented to the Public Planning Commission as a huge public benefit. Later, the park disappeared from the plans and in response to inquiries they said they could not build the park for liability reasons. When they purchased the

4:54:23property, the Saddlebrook Property Owners Association Board, which I belong to, the uh Owners Association, I don't I'm not on the board. reached out to welcome them and discuss their plans to improve the resort property. Oh yes, they said, we will meet soon. Months later a meeting was scheduled, conveniently for Mass Capital, after the hearing before the County Commission, where they filed to repurpose the entire property. At that hearing, they stated that they had been in contact

4:54:53with each of the five HOAs in Saddlebrook, with a clear implication that the HOAs were aware of and in alignment with their plans. No way. They advised that they would have separate meetings with each of the five HOAs. Well, let's divide and conquer. This is not transparency, and they have not been acting in good faith. I feel like at this point they're being forced to come forward with more concrete information and to Meet

4:55:24with us on the And hear what our concerns are. But this is not how they started out. This is how they responded under pressure. They projected a very collegial persona during the meeting with our HOA. They were very reassuring that they're well aware of the history and value of the resort to the residents of Pasco County and the Greater Tampa Bay region, and that they are fully committed to honor and improve upon that legacy. They presented beautiful ideas for a renewed resort, and spoke of a walkable town center with,

4:55:55You got it, rainbows and unicorns, in the form of ice cream stores and coffee shops. And on the proposal it states non-binding plans. So no commitment, just a pretty picture of a happy future for all. Speaking of all. The high density housing would overwhelm our roads. They say they would build a new entry, this Vision Road, but they told us that this would be some years in the future when it was

4:56:25propo when it was approved by the county, but surely not soon enough. They completely glossed over how the vastly increased population would overwhelm the current roadways in Saddlebrook, Which are owned and upkept by our homeowners in conjunction with the resort owners. Mass Capital had no immediate answers as how people would be able to access the resort, no plans for continuing resort amen amenities, that's already been discussed. I

4:56:55am also truly concerned that they would allow the resort properties to continue to deteriorate and then claim that they cannot be reasonably restored and will seek rezoning of the re resort property itself. No provisions have been made to ensure the safety or security of our existing gated community. There are no specific plans of how they will protect our neighborhood from being open to all who live and work on the surrounding mass capital owned property. Currently it's safe

4:57:25to ride bikes, walk, run, any hour of the day or night. Many senior citizens resolve and s reside in Saddlebrook. How can our vulnerable population be protected?

4:57:37They provided information on how they would address existing water drainage issues. They say the studies have been done. I request that Pasco County itself perform an independent analysis rather than relying on the reviews submitted by a analysts hired by Mast. There was absolutely no indication of plans to preserve and protect the existing flora and fauna on the property. We regularly encounter sandhill cranes, hawks, turkeys, egrets, ibis, and

4:58:08a wide variety of other wildlife. I didn't mention the alligators and the deer, which are nuisances in my opinion.

4:58:18Some of these species, including the wood storks, sandhill cranes, and roseates, be spoon bills, are in danger.

4:58:31I understand the midnight bell is gonna ring here pretty soon.

4:58:35I understand. I I implore you, Commissioners, to act in the best of your own. Because a lot of things you're saying that already your uh constituents here in Pasco County. Thank you. I apologize for the No, that's

4:58:48all right. I'm glad you had a chance to come up

4:58:52with

4:58:56What?

4:58:59Is there any way we can get anybody else that still wants to speak to line up so we have an indication of how many speakers are left? Is there just is she the last speaker or do we have others?

4:59:13Or at least come up on the front row here.

4:59:15Yes.

4:59:17Uh that way we can get a better gauge of where we need to go.

4:59:25So I'm seeing about four more speakers. Okay.

4:59:30All right.

4:59:31Hi, thank you for this time. My name is Mary Paulshock. I live at uh [address removed]. I have not been sworn in.

4:59:40Okay, let's make that happen. Has anybody else in the front row not been sworn yet?

4:59:45Okay.

4:59:47Okay. Anybody who hasn't please stand and raise your right hand. Everybody? Excuse me, Ms. Boshawk, would you raise your right hand?

4:59:59How do I? Okay.

5:00:02And I'm not gonna say other things that anybody else said. The only thing I I I got up here is my son's in the golf program. He's fourteen. Um, one of the clarities around that, and I'm not gonna go, you know, why I came to Saddlebrook. But one of the reasons is it's 'cause of the golf program and there hasn't been a lot said about that. And um Also because of the safety. My son's 14 when we he went to the golf program, he was 12, and he c you know, he could ride around. I feel very comfortable. However, with saying that, just the traffic's

5:00:32getting terrible already. It's gonna get worse. I have to drive him to school, we're about two miles away. I can't even have him drive his bike because it's just out of control. Um we purchased a home on the golf course. I don't even know if we're gonna have that golf course view and I know others have said that. Um on the Zoom call I asked twice um, you know, what's gonna happen with the school, what's gonna go on with the uh academics, is the prep school gonna be around. We have no plans

5:01:02for any improvements for the school. The other point of clarity I just want to say is I heard the um driving range is going to be moved. The driving range is much more than the driving range. That's the golf academy. My son goes up there every day, he trains. That's a big portion um of what that whole area is and no one has stated where that's gonna move, what's gonna happen with it, and logistically moving it down around the front, what they're talking about, makes no sense. So

5:01:33I just wanted to point that out that there is the driving range is one part, but there's a dedicated area just for the golf students. And then they also have an indoor building, they have two buildings, so probably three quarters of it is really for the golf academy. Um the other thing I wanted to bring up is about the safety. Um there's no rules around that being since it's been purchased by mask. I I don't even I mean we had like a sex offender. There would never that would never be let in before.

5:02:03There's there's like a lot of things going on. Um And I just wanna mention the membership. We've been paying membership for the golf. Uh our fee was twelve thousand dollars, just the initiation fee. I think we pay $300 a month for it, maybe around there. And that we don't get anything in return for that. So that's currently what we're spending, you know, at Saddlebroad, plus, you know, our homes that we uh update and everything. So please consider the safety, the traffic.

5:02:35You pay twelve thousand just to get in.

5:02:37I pay twelve thousand dollars initiation at the end.

5:02:40But does part of the three hundred go towards your green fees?

5:02:44No, we have

5:02:45to pay green fees.

5:02:50Green fees, cart fees.

5:02:51Yeah, we pay about it about three hundred and some a month. So I just want to consider the safety of it and that there is a golf school there and you know, from my perspective, if they're gonna get rid of it then Yeah, maybe we're just leave. So Anyway, thank you.

5:03:11Okay, thank you.

5:03:17Uh good afternoon. I guess it's evening now. I'm sorry. Mary Coleman, [address removed]. Um I have been sworn in. Uh my husband Steve and I we've been exploring opportunities to move to Florida for about two and a half years, and this past year we selected Saddlebrook and purchased a home in Saddlebrook rather than elsewhere precisely because of its green space, its low density, high housing, its mature trees, its gated security, things that we valued and which for which we were willing to pay extra.

5:03:48Um but I have I have another concern that's kind of broader and that is the fact that the whole county is is growing very quickly and we saw the evidence of that in one of the slides earlier and that population density is affecting a lot of resources, not just our public safety. I happen to be a family physician who does remote telemedicine and so I can tell you that I take care of lots of people, not just in in four different states, but including Florida. And we just have a problem with population density in terms of resources. There

5:04:18aren't people can't get in to get to see doctors. They can't get their health care in a timely fashion. My own Family, we had to wait a month to get an echocardiogram for someone who has fluid around their heart. This is right here. So what I'm saying is population density is a very important thing for us to consider, and the growth that's going on in our county is something that has an impact on many of our resources, including public safety and including our access to health care. So I just ask you to consider

5:04:48as you're thinking about the overall plan for our community, that those things are also taken into consideration. And I appreciate everything you do and the time and especially how much time you've given us today. Thank you.

5:05:00Okay. Thank you.

5:05:09My name is Jerry Mayerman. Um I don't live at Saddlebrook but I own a condominium there. I actually live in the groves. So I am a Wesley uh I'm a Pasco County resident. I've been sworn in. I my apartment my condo is Unit 218 in the Walking Village at Saddlebrook. I've owned a unit at Saddlebrook since nineteen eighty-five. because I'm a school teacher from New York City. And that was the only thing I could afford to

5:05:39buy at the time because The c Saddlebrook Resort was doing so well. that my quarterly returns, even after they took their fifty-five, forty, however it divided up, My unit almost paid for itself. And it was a tax deduction for me. Well, it's gotten so bad now. It's called a condotel. So I cannot refinance my unit. and I'm paying seven and a quarter percent and when They

5:06:11interest rates went down, the bank would not allow me to refinance because of the title. Condotel. Now you were asking some very interesting questions. When we bought the condo, we had to join. and I still pay four hundred plus dollars a month to a club. the golf course, the unit, the pool and everything at Saddlebrook but for a long time over the summer these things were not functioning.

5:06:41But I had to pay My four hundred dollars. It cost me That's quarterly. My quarterly condo fees are about fifteen hundred dollars. They just went up. My unit that I paid eighty seven thousand dollars for I was told I might be able to get ten or fifteen if I were lucky. if I don't go along with the redecorating package and they're talking money that a

5:07:12retired school teacher does not have Then I come out of the rental pool and I'm just stuck paying these fees uh paying fees and not getting anything back on it. There was one quarter this year where I got no check. for the quarter. So understand that there's a lot of people that are not here tonight that are condo owners that are taking a beating. And I'm afraid that if this new development

5:07:42comes in We're gonna take more of a beating because I don't know. The resort is not up to what it should be and it needs to be improved. Also because I live in Pasco County, I live at the Groves. I have seen now What happens when you start putting housing in? Route forty one. Is impossible. I for me to go from the groves up to Route fifty two to come here today, Took me almost

5:08:1230 minutes. the amount of traffic We all know. It's it's gotten out of control. So we have to think about the impacts again that these six hundred units which would be at least probably two or three people a unit, that's a lot of people. So Thank you for your time and I hope you'll understand a little bit more about the condos now.

5:08:37Okay.

5:08:46Keith Weinstein uh

5:08:49Live on [address removed] in Saddlebrook. Uh I've owned other properties in the Condo Hotel. Um and Lakeside Condo. The um point of this I'm sorry, [address removed]. uh 30 years of commercial development through the Midwest, Florida and Texas. The I've been a zoning board member as well, um, helped out numerous communities on economic development. So I've worn both hats. I have high hope

5:09:20for Mass Capital. Um what I would say today is that their plans are not complete nor are past the point of having you guys be able to vote. What everyone said before is a lot of their meetings have they've changed the dates, the times, right before a meeting, before the associations where we take time off of our work schedules, and then everything keeps changing. So One of

5:09:50the big issues everyone keeps talking about is the density and that's a tremendous amount of density in the front. What they alluded to was Vision Road H. One person the attorney said oh yeah, yeah, it's going all the way through. That'll be another road for Saddlebrook. The other the representative from uh Mass Capital said, no, it only goes for the apartment section. and everyone for Saddleburgh comes through the main gate. But

5:10:20that apartment section also connects to the main entrance road, which now we're gonna get two left turn lanes. However, Like you said, if you have five hundred and some units there What you don't know is that the hotel can have three thousand people. Attending a conference. Not necessarily staying in the condo hotels. But They'll back you up to seventy five because of alley parking. So if you add all these units to just two access points, which

5:10:50normally with a hundred thousand square feet, the conference center is a hundred thousand square feet. You have eight hundred different Beds in the hotel. You have a school. Yeah. The Lakeside Condos you have six hundred residents on top of that. all funneling through and backing up. on a normal day, let alone putting all that in the front, and whatever else they want to do inside. I think it just needs a little more uh traffic concerns and planning elements before

5:11:21you guys pass us. One other thing to think about is the traffic study was done in the middle of the hurricane season and the off season. So now when you get to April, March, January, February That's gonna be a little bit more than that. immensely increase. Those are just everyone else has covered all the other points. Don't want to take any more time. Really appreciate all of your time tonight.

5:11:46Thank you for hanging out.

5:11:53Okay, so uh I Liam. Sorry, excuse me Mr. Chairman I just want to clarify I have several people on the who've signed up to speak and I don't know if they've left early or if they choose to no longer get up and speak and provide public comment. Okay. Can I just go through the list?

5:12:09Read their names.

5:12:10Yep. So Andy Call. You spoken, okay, perfect. And then Matt Crayley. Correct. Did you?

5:12:21Okay.

5:12:25Angela Wees West? I spoke. You spoke? Perfect. And then Robin Burns.

5:12:34And then Tracy Maxie?

5:12:39And then Carol Beth Kelly? Okay. And then um Kari Sheen?

5:12:48My voice were just messing.

5:12:51Thank you.

5:12:52Yeah, just to be clear, there's nobody on WebEx for this item, right? That is correct. Okay. Did we ever find the person that was registered?

5:13:01No.

5:13:01Okay.

5:13:04All right. So uh Ms. Willheight, your turn.

5:13:11So can we ask the applicant some questions before we should be let out to return?

5:13:16We would welcome that.

5:13:17Probably a good

5:13:18idea.

5:13:19Um start with you. Well

5:13:22unless somebody wants to go first I'll I'll start. Um so Barbara, I guess it's very hard to summarize three hours of testimony, but I'm gonna at the risk of having stone thrown at me I'm gonna try. Um The biggest concern I'm hearing isn't so much with what you're planning with in area one and area two, and I think there are some concerns with area one and area two, but they're probably mostly about traffic. But the biggest concern I've heard from the residents is the

5:13:52lack of detail in areas three and four. And And let me just give you an example. I mean even in area three I can't tell whether you're keeping the tennis courts or not, because it just there's a note about what's going in area three, but it's not clear whether tennis courts are part of that or not. Um and then in area four, which is probably the biggest concern, I understand that you're saying it's gonna remain a golf course, but there's very big difference between for these

5:14:22residents between overlooking a golf course and overlooking the maintenance building or overlooking, you know, where the golf carts are gonna be stored or the restaurant. I mean th there's a very big So I understand their concern about the lack of detail with area four and three In I guess to go along with that, you have these very detailed plans for Area One and Area Two, and Justina's created very detailed plans, but we're not seeing that same level of detail for three and four, and

5:14:52I think that's what's driving most of the concerns. And so I guess my question is Is that can you all create that level of detail for areas three and four as part of the MPD plan or and that and then a corollary to that is because area four is not planned, we've heard concerns about drainage. Area four might be an opportunity to address some of the drainage concerns, but we don't have any detailed plans for Area

5:15:224. So

5:15:25If I had to summarize the overarching concern about what you proposed here is the lack of detail with with areas three and four. And so I guess my question to you is is it possible for you all to create that detail sort of like you did with one and two for three and four as part of the MPUD plan?

5:15:45So we'll have to have Aaron get up here as the client and talk to that. But I can tell you that we are working with attorneys These attorneys haven't really worked with us that are here today. Um Jane Graham did reach out and I reached out to her and so hopefully those that that will start moving along the conversation. But we are working with attorneys on private deed restrictions on these very issues so that it's not a zoning what that we've been asked is private deed restrictions. Think about that, right? That is where we're

5:16:16committing forever in favor of these homeowners associations to have deed restrictions. And a lot of the things that you're hearing about, those same questions are coming up in the private conversations, where they actually belong, and actually they're more protected in the private conversations through a deed restriction. So We are working on that conversation of where can those things go. This isn't evolving because As we resolve an issue, another question comes up. And that doesn't mean we're and that we continue to talk and we continue to have meetings. And we know that that is the issue

5:16:46and we're still we're working on that. to to try to define some of those things further and that's what we've been asked to do relative to those deed those deed restrictions. So the answer is yes, we're going to continue to work on that. We know that that's a an issue, we know that's a question, and we need to give more clarity regarding that and I and that's what we plan on doing.

5:17:08Okay, well I guess I would urge you to do that because I I think you're gonna be putting the Planning Commission and Board in a difficult spot if some of those details are not worked out before this the MPD. I mean I'm more concerned about the MPD than I am even the Plan Amendment because that's where the details should be. And I'm concerned that you're gonna come through with an MPUD that's also gonna have that lack of detail and then Planning Commissioner Board of it and I think that's

5:17:38gonna be putting them in a bad spot.

5:17:40Yeah, no, it's so I understand. I understand. And that restricted area for language, I know people called it crazy. That's That's a draft of language and if anybody wants to call me and work with m me, I food and beverage is is a very broad term, so we can work on that. So what we need to do is just continue to work on that. That same that same language that's restricted for is in the deed restriction and there's been those attorneys have asked for further clarifications regarding that language. I'm working on that, so with them. And there we go.

5:18:08Yeah, I but I'm not sure it

5:18:10is

5:18:10just a list of use issue. I mean it's also where the uses are going. And I can understand if you have a home right now that overlooks the golf course, you're not n necessarily gonna want to overlook the maintenance building.

5:18:21I under that's the same exact question that we've been raised in our conversations regarding the deed restrictions.

5:18:27Okay, so then my other question for you and the reason I asked about the mobility fees that that you'll be paying with your new entitlements is This is my personal opinion that I think whoever designed Solderbrook originally did a bad job in terms of access. Okay? Because Why somebody designed this massive resort with one way in and one way out? In my opinion was bad planning. Okay. That's what the planner sort of got up and said, okay. Um

5:18:59so I do think that something I mean, I whether and I don't Steve will probably get up and say the level of service on Stigware fifty four is fantastic. Okay. But we all know that's probably not right. And so I I think there needs to be some other way out that doesn't just get you two fifty four. And so the reason I asked about what you're spending in mobility fees is I wanna know if there's an opportunity to actually build Vision Road H so

5:19:29that it you know, some partnership between Southern Brook and Mass Capital and the County where we get Vision Road H built over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard and then Wiregrass is supposed to build it from Brisbane Downs to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard so that people can get out to Chansey Road, State Route 56. I mean Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard for those that don't know is going to be a major north-south road that's gonna eventually connect fifty-four all the way down to fifty-six and even farther south to the cot to which becomes

5:20:00Mansfield basically. So I think if we can get some of this traffic on in Saddlebrook over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard, Bruce B. Downs, 56, Chansey, it will help distribute the traffic better so not not all of it's coming out onto 54. And so I think we need to explore again why I asked you about the mobility fees, is is there enough money in mobility fees generated by this project that we can get Vision Road H built to our reference boulevard

5:20:30so that there is another way out for the resident your new residents as well as the existing residents. So

5:20:37I think those are very good comments. And I actually like this process that we are not coming to you with an MPUD, that we're actually doing this in steps where we can listen. This is the comp plan stage. Comp plan's not adopt going to be adopted. Until the M Penny for Pasco. But we need to keep moving through this process. And what's what's good about this is now we can have these specific conversations. about what potential solutions there are and how the county can participate and how we can participate and we can move that conversation up. So I I'm

5:21:08others

5:21:09on

5:21:09the

5:21:09schedule meeting at the

5:21:10end of the day.

5:21:17You and I and some of the others on this board deal with rezoning and developments and so forth, but they're standalone properties. We're what we're doing here is we're coming in and we're taking a development that's already developed and we're gonna redevelop it. And that has bigger impact on people that have made investments in there. And like one of the ladies that said that she bought a property that looks o over the golf course and how w

5:21:47how much he loves it there and and so forth. I mean I i I have a hard time approving something that was gonna take away take that away from her because she's already there and we're coming in the Johnny come lately and uh and making and making changes and that's why I think It's our responsibility and I know you feel this way too, Barbara, that It's our responsibility to make sure that these people are protected at the same time. these developers

5:22:18that I mean, th they they're like a godsend in in many ways and if you work with them properly 'Cause e every one of you that com come up here has said You need some kind of investor to come in and make these changes because you can't do it out of your own pockets. There's too much to be done. So I think to you know to d to B rate the developer is a m is a mistake for you. I think you need to work together. Can

5:22:48I add to that Mr. Chairman Mariano it also concerns me when I hear comments like we want the resort upgraded but we don't want them to have any additional density. I mean Right. I gotta imagine that at some point Mass Capital needs some of that those development pods in area one and area two to make this overall resort to help make some of the improvements they need to be made to the resort. So

5:23:12certain extent you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say, Well we want all these this beautiful resort, beautiful golf course, but we don't want Mass Capital to have any ability to make a profit on areas one and two. I I just think that's a little disingenuous to be saying something like that. So I d I personally I don't get a vote, you guys vote, but um I I I I think that You have to allow some development to occur on areas one and two if you want mass capital to to invest in the resort and

5:23:42the golf course. I mean I just think it needs to happen.

5:23:45Yeah, I I think it just it's gonna take more detail in my opinion to to have these people, these people that have invested in that community. feel comfortable about what's being done there so they know that what what they're gonna be looking at when they look out their back window. And I feel the same way, Barbara. I mean if it was you or me or I'd feel that's how I'd feel. And

5:24:09I you know I feel that way and I understand it. Yeah. And the fact that I have a client that's willing to do a private deed restriction with these homeowners association that will last forever. Is jaw dropping?

5:24:21Yeah.

5:24:22Twenty-five years, however long I've been doing this, never negotiate a private deed restriction, ever. So that's where they're putting their what they say they're doing it because If they wouldn't do that if they had intents to do something else with that golf course, other than make it successful and make the resort successful, they would never be negotiating a DR striction. I've never seen it done before, I've never even written one. I don't I've never seen one. So I I think if you look at that, but I understand these two points, these are points that we continue,

5:24:52you could see what we are we're looking at traffic. We propose some improvements. Traffic's gonna continue to be worked out. I I think it's great the county wants to work with us and talk about how we can work on traffic. That's a great conversation. We don't have that enough. We used to. um talk about doing different things like that and we've stopped doing that and now I'm happy that County and developers are are talking about solutions and we're talking about mobility fee credits and how to use our mobility fees. We're getting back into a conversation that we You know, I mean five eighty one was Five eighty one is

5:25:22six lanes out there because of a developer. You know, and and Steve could tell you what the level of services out there, but that developer spent, you know, tr it those dollars back then, twenty years ago, twenty million dollars. Yeah. Just get that done. And you have that road. And so but since then a lot of those we didn't do a lot of those things. So I welcome that conversation with David about how we can do that. I understand the lack the lack of the questions about the details about three and four. We're gonna continue to work on that.

5:25:56the lack of detail and timing sounds like it's also a concern. I mean just to give you an example, it's clear that you want to get rid of the driving range and I I personally don't think it was a good idea to put a driving range right next to State Rou fifty four, in my opinion. But I understand their concern about it just potentially just going away and not knowing where it's going to reappear and when.

5:26:16It's also a golf academy.

5:26:18Right, 'cause it's also a golf academy. So I think your client needs to provide more detail on when when and where the driving range is going to be look relocated so that they know they still have a driving range in a golf academy. And that they're not just gonna sit there for ten years with no driving range and no golf academy. They're The lack of detail and timing is also I think part of the concern as well.

5:26:40Okay. David, I want to thank you for making the exact point that I made when I pulled this case the very first time because I said In the old days we used to hear the comp plan and the M P U D consecutively, on the same day, And well we stopped that policy, but that's the reason we did it, so that we got the details so that nobody can come in here and say, Well, you already voted on the Comp Plan amendment, you've already changed this, and we're doing it too soon.

5:27:13It's clear.

5:27:17Well.

5:27:19it's it's it's a

5:27:20valid point, but the the what staff will tell you is that we have this unfortunate situation where we still have to transmit our comp plans to DCA, which then causes a hiccup on lining it up with the MPD.

5:27:33That's right.

5:27:34That being said Part of the reason I'm making these comments to Barbara and you all should make your comments as well is because the MP we know the MPD's coming. And so that's where these details will be in very specific conditions. So if you've got concerns, even if it's to the at detail level, express them now. That's why I'm telling Barbara my concerns because I think these are things that need to be addressed in the MPD when it comes forward. There should be a condition on what we're doing with Vision Road H. There should be a condition on

5:28:03Yeah, but this Part of this restriction is in a map that's a sub-area policy. So this is something that we're being asked to decide right

5:28:12now. That is true. That is true. I don't disagree. Um

5:28:17What way I must explain that to me.

5:28:20In particular the language that you said you had no pride of authorship over that you're working on with Ms. Graham

5:28:27Well, yeah, nobody's offered to work with an artist.

5:28:34That's true. That that is in the subway policies. I don't I don't disagree with you. Um the only comfort I can give you is that

5:28:43This is why I asked the question in the very beginning when I asked Amy will the MPUD and Com Plan eventually get to the same board approval? And the answer was yes, they will.

5:28:54And the applicant says yes on the record as well.

5:28:56So there's w no way the Com plan will get approved without the MPUD. Now, I understand your dilemma though is you're being easy. We

5:29:04don't get that choice.

5:29:05Pardon me?

5:29:06But we're not getting that opportunity. We won't see that in future.

5:29:10You're not you're not see your point is that the board's gonna see them together, but you won't. Not fair to the Planning Commissioner Yeah. Um I don't know how to solve that problem. Um

5:29:20it's it's a process problem with the county's process. Well

5:29:24how did we used to do it? Because they used to come consecutively. It used

5:29:27to be.

5:29:33It's a very long process and

5:29:35the only thing I would that we might be able to do is that when the MPUD comes forward, if you have specific recommendations that then would require us to change a sub area policy, um I think we could you could still make those recommendations at that time and staff would just have to make sure they get incorporated into the sub area policies before the board approves them. So I mean,

5:30:04I I don't I'm not trying I don't know what to do about today because you I understand you're being asked to make a recommendation today and you may not love this language. But if you still have an opportunity to change it when the MPD comes forward, when is the MPD supposed to come forward? Does anybody know?

5:30:21We do not have any dates.

5:30:25Yeah, well it hasn't even

5:30:29been submitted to my office to review, so I don't think you're any more.

5:30:32I was gonna say David, so can't you make sure the language is included in there when you review it to set the dates?

5:30:37Um I'm sure he will. Yeah, I mean I I think Commissioner Moody, I think if you express your concerns with the language today, staff can make sure that those concerns are addressed either through modifying the sub area policy or in the MP and or in the MPUD.

5:31:03But if you don't feel comfortable Acting today, that's up to you the

5:31:08Planning Commissioner Weightman. I would tell you I would not feel comfortable denying this. Application. But I'd feel more comfortable if it were brought back to us with more detail at a later date.

5:31:24I mean that's a good thing.

5:31:28I guess the caveat to that I First off, I mean, Saddlebrook's forty years old. Everybody here will acknowledge that Saddlebrook is not anywhere close to what it was in the late eighties, early nineties, even the two thousands. I mean people used to clamor to go to Saddlebrook. Um i Saddlebrook was a tremendous amenity for Pasco County in my opinion. I was born and raised in Pasco County. I I know Saddlebrook was what it was. It's not that anymore. It needs it needs refreshed. Okay. And I I think the good news is is

5:31:58is Mass Capital is here to to kinda do that. Um And I I think a lot of this stuff that th they have addressed. I mean David brought up, you know, the the signalized intersection at at Vision Road H in fifty four, a half a mile east of seventy five is probably not a good place for a driving range. I don't think any planner would put a stormwater pond or a driving range or a park or anything right there at that signalized intersection. I mean I like you worked out the details on Area one, area two uh to me it's just important that that gets

5:32:29worked out for the MPUD. I mean I'm okay with the comp plan recommendation but I I think somehow we have to caveat that to that has to be worked out at the M PUD level or else I wouldn't be comfortable supporting the M PUD.

5:32:41I know that.

5:32:48Let me make my comments first, please.

5:32:50Well we're actually in rebuttal. We still have to

5:32:52let we still have to let the applicant do the rebuttal. Okay. And nobody else gets rebuttal to declare. So um but if if you have specific questions for the applicant, please ask them.

5:33:06is our possibility to go ahead and move forward with areas one and two. You're gonna need the financial uh funds to build Vision Road or else we're gonna remain just that in Vision. Uh In the twenty years I've lived here in Pasco County, Vision Road has been just that. It was supposed to be a a road going around the public sets over there at the corner of Bruceby Downs in 54. I heard that 20 years ago. Yeah, we're going to build a road

5:33:36around it. Twenty years later here we are looking at Vision Road. They're gonna need somebody's gonna have to pay for it and the way the county works out is gonna be the builder. They're willing to pay for it. They're gonna have to pay for it. At least their portion of it. It'd be nice to pay for the whole thing.

5:33:54The gentleman who was the planner, Mr. Forgey, I think his last name was. He indicated ki combati Compatibility. Thank you. It might just difficult to pronounce words sometimes. But anyway, the you know that is that is an area that's very compati compatible. Yeah, I won't speak compatible. It was compatible with with the growth of the area. It looks like to me, the way it was designed. It's gonna be kind of a I would say

5:34:24not quite high level. commercial area, but it's gonna be pretty close to it. It's gonna be very attractive. It's gonna benefit the community. It's gonna bring additional f resources to the community like taxes and things like that. And opportunities. So I could see high you know green lighting areas one and two. As far as the apartments go, hey, I have them out in front of my community and I know exactly how you folks feel about the apartment complex out there. I have 'em, I have to live with it. Period. I

5:34:54live in [address removed]. We have a ton of apartments in front of our subdivision and they were uh approved many years ago too. So you you you will You will become accustomed to the apartments.

5:35:11Okay.

5:35:12Please.

5:35:13At least you know you're alive out there.

5:35:17All right, let's knock it off.

5:35:19Thank you. Thank you.

5:35:20We were certainly courteous to every one of you. You're gonna and I expect the same thing in return.

5:35:25You're gonna have multiple homes out there. You're not gonna have apartments. You're gonna have that's a that's a plus, plus some homes. There's ownership in those. The apartments, different concept. So I wish I hadn't said what I said about the apartment. Okay. So but anyway, I think we ought

5:35:39to agree on

5:35:40that.

5:35:40Anybody have more questions with out with you looking at the Okay, do the rebuttal.

5:35:46Okay. Any other questions? Because actually I appreciate your questions and your direction and your guidance. I do think this is a process. We are we need to keep moving forward because stopping is not going to help Mass be successful here. And if they're not successful this pro I don't think the this project is successful. So I appreciate your comments about redeveloping. It has an impact and we have to be careful about the impact, but not doing anything has an impact as well. Helping us to move

5:36:17forward, giving us guidance, giving us the things that you say we'll have to address to get your vote for MPUD is helpful. that gives us a a path forward and working with staff to work out those details. So the process while I it's you're concerned that you you move it forward and you actually did move it forward already um before but we're absolutely happy to be here and take this this very seriously and this opportunity very seriously. We just need to keep moving forward and working

5:36:47on these things and And I appreciate the the offer about area one and two, but it's actually the the three and four and that restricted area on four and that deed restriction on that golf course that comes with all of this. to continue to build on that is a big benefit for this community. And like I said, my client willing to to have that deed restriction and talk about it and refine it is is Are you

5:37:10saying there's going to be a deed restriction that goes with the MVUD?

5:37:15No. We're doing a private deed restriction with those ho I could I could do them with the county, I do them all the time and the county can change them with the public hearing. That is I do 'em all the time. And and The the county can change them. All they have to do is go back through a modification to rezoning. This one is uniquely different that they're negotiating a deed restriction in favor of the four homeowners associations that will run with the land and benefit their land and burden this land, their land, mass capital land

5:37:42forever. But it's not done. It's I mean clearly these people wouldn't have come out to voice their concerns had this been all taken care of with

5:37:51So

5:37:54The there's an attorney here that represents the folks that are doing they're negotiating that deed restriction Leading that deed restriction negotiation.

5:38:04And that's what that's the right-of-way. So this is where we get to. But I'm just telling you, they can say whatever they want. We have

5:38:11Excuse

5:38:11me, Ms. Barbara.

5:38:14This is rebuttal. Everybody here has had a chance to speak. Please be courteous to her while she sat there and listened to each one of you for three hours.

5:38:25What I would say is there's an attorney here that represents one of the associations that's been working with us diligently on a deed restriction. They did not stand up here and object. I think they think we are act they feel like we're acting in good faith. They did not stand up here and object. They could have. That's tells you the level of work that we're doing. And if anybody wants to work with us, that's great. Remember, we sent out 800 letters. I know you had a lot of people here today, but we sent out a lot of letters. And we have people that we're actually working with. And they're and so If

5:38:56you work with us, we'll work with you. We have to find a a way to make the community successful and mass successful. You know, denial doesn't do that. Um in in not moving this forward today doesn't doesn't really help that either. But I think your clear direction on the your expectations of us as we come back to you for an M P with the M P U D um is really important and I'm glad we were here to be able to have that direction that we can hear their their conversations and we can understand your expectations.

5:39:24David let me ask this question.

5:39:30it only becomes a problem for this timing issue of transmittal to DEO or the former DCA or whatever they call themselves today on this comp plan amendment and the MPUD when the board votes for it. It doesn't cause a problem when we hear it, if we hear it simultaneously or consecutively on the same day.

5:39:56Because the because that can be delayed in that can be set so that okay, well the the planning commission's blessed your comp plan amendment and your MP. We'll move the comp plan forward to the BCC and if we need to wait a few weeks to hear from DCA before your

5:40:12It doesn't cause a legal concern for you or the board. I suspect from Mass Capital it basically slows down their approval process because

5:40:21Well the denial would kill their approval card.

5:40:23Don't disagree, I'm just saying that because then they have to wait, they're gonna have to wait for The transmittal to go to D D O and come back before the board can act on even if you say you love the Plan Amendment and love the MPUD. it's still g it's gonna then delay their ability to get a final approval by the board because then they're gonna have to wait even though you said you loved the the whole thing, they're gonna have to wait for the transmittal C DO to go and then come

5:40:54back. Does that make sense?

5:41:00I'm just saying it delays their approval is what it does. Barbara, am I saying that wrong?

5:41:04No, agreed. Okay,

5:41:06I think that's it does that. Okay. But no, if you're asking me could it legally be could you could you legally defer this till the MPUDs with it? Yes you could.

5:41:17Whoa. W you could also just like this is not a legal step, I mean this is di you were not this was not remanded to you. You you already took action, convened as the LPA and took action on this, but we agreed to come back to you. Even if it's transmitted, you can still comment on the common plan as before it's adopted by the board.

5:41:37Well, Barbara, to be clear though, I think the board did want a recommendation from the Planning Commission.

5:41:41And that's suggesting otherwise. I'm just saying as far as legal steps versus how we make sure that the Planning Commission has meaningful comment, just like we're here today. We can

5:41:56I guess the question,

5:41:57Barbara, comes down to let's just say the MPD comes forward two months from now, three months from now, and

5:42:06The Planning Commission has regret about some of the language in the sub-area. Okay, they say, Why the hell did we approve? Other uses customarily applicable to the operational golf course. That was too broad. Let's just say they and now the MPD has now narrowed it to something more specific. How are you suggesting they fix the sub area because they've already made a recommendation on it?

5:42:31Well they already made a recommendation on this sub area and we're back today and you're making a recommendation, hopefully today.

5:42:41Because now you're gonna turn it around on me. You're gonna say, Oh see, you already voted for it.

5:42:46I didn't say that. No. I I

5:42:48That was the day I pulled it. Well we need to move this for you what I got told was we need to move this forward. Oh well you're still gonna get a bite at the apple at the MPUD. We need to move this forward. And then here we go, we got back to the board and it got kicked right back here.

5:43:06And that's my concern with separating this process. And I don't know where or how this changed, but when I used to serve on this board A comp plan amendment and a companion M P U D got heard one right after the other. And that's the exact reason we did that. This kind of case is the exact reason we did that.

5:43:28David, if there's more restrictive language approved as part of the MPUD than what is already approved in the sub area policy, doesn't the more restrictive language approved? Yeah, I mean you

5:43:37can be more restrictive in an MPUD than you can than you are in Complet. So that's that's a true statement.

5:43:45I I guess Barbara, are are you sugg are you s are you confirming that when this comes back at the M P U D level the deed restriction will be in place that Delineates all the what's gonna happen in the golf academy, the driving range, the maintenance shed, all the golf

5:43:59Well it'll be all the things are privately negotiated between the people that

5:44:03But

5:44:03are asking all those questions and and the D restriction we work out.

5:44:10Well

5:44:10I don't know about that. I

5:44:11know

5:44:11that's a fair question. I mean eight hundred people, we have got quite a few people here. I can I you know I can work with those who work with me and uh that's the what the effort is. Um I mean

5:44:24David indicated earlier, I mean the difficulty here is is we're we're taking a golf course community that always has re already has residents that live on the golf course and we're taking away some of their I'm talking about. Yeah. Write whatever you want to call it.

5:44:39I actually think we're adding protections because that ComPlan is Res 6. And I think a good land use litigator and a good group of people, not this mass capital, not this team, could come in and try to to do something with regard something bad regarding that golf course. I'm actually protecting it by changing it to PD and restricting it from what it is today. It's a land use for residential on top of their golf course. So I I mean I really believe that I'm I am protecting not those residents by the By changing this comp plan, which is a legislative

5:45:09act and you all know that.

5:45:10Just because a comp plan designates an area as res six David is a Board of Commissioners obligated to rezone it?

5:45:19No. And I if the M P D designated it as a golf course, I think it would be An uphill battle to say you just get to automatically designate it as something else.

5:45:29I'm not proposing any battles. I'm proposing a solution so there's never a battle.

5:45:35I mean is it L Last Ab, I mean is the existing MPU to designate this golf course as a golf course? That's the one thing we haven't seen here today is the

5:45:43easement.

5:45:43Well it would be very hard to see because it's an it's a nineteen eighty-six plan. It's not el legible in the in the board records. So it's very difficult to deal with something that was approved in nineteen eighty-six. We struggled with it with Denise and staff. with regard to what that MPD plan says or doesn't say. But all that being said, I'm trying to come up with a solution so we don't ever there's not it there's never that day when somebody tries to do something and convert that golf course, when the golf course fails because Mast fails or somebody else fails, I'm

5:46:13preventing those that's what this comp plan does. It actually provides the protection that I don't We could argue whether they have it today or not, but uh I'm precluding the argument from going in the future. And I can imagine there's a whole bunch of communities that wish they actually had someone trying to actually resolve that for them. I don't think they know that because they don't realize w what the world of golf course conversions is and maybe never you know, but it it actually occurs. It's a problem and we gotta make mass accessible so that resort

5:46:43successful and by moving this forward we're actually going to stop that debate. about going forward about what you could do bad things you could do to convert that golf course. And it's a situation where we're willing to do that. And I have a client that's willing to do that. Which is pretty remarkable. And so please let give us the time to keep doing that and and keep moving forward and and I know it's a bit of a leap Commissioner Moody, I understand that. And I've never I would never s I would never throw in I would never throw it that what you did on uh September twenty

5:47:14second means anything with regard to what you're doing today. I came back here We came back here for a hearing. My client was like, Really? We're going back? We already did that. And I'm like, No, we need to do it. So I take it seriously, you know I take it seriously. And if I said anything to I got one logistical

5:47:28question for you, which is a little bit more than a little bit. So we already acknowledge that some of what's in staff's report is erroneous. Some of what was in their PowerPoint is erroneous. So there's also the issue of what the heck is Planning Commission voting on? Because if what's before us in this agenda clearly has errors. I mean, for example, there there are sentences in there now that say that the golf course is being redeveloped for residential, which is parameter. Not true anymore. PowerPoint saying

5:47:58that you're doing 60 single-family units, but you're not doing. So um

5:48:05Are you asking Planning Commission to vote on your revised proposal, I guess, is what you're asking?

5:48:11Yeah, so I put into the record uh a narrative, sub-area policies, sub-area plan, I mean uh sp a um PowerPoint that explained all those things. That's why I did all that by the way. That's why I bothered you all last night. Sent you stuff. um because I wanted to make sure you had the correct information and that I spent a lot of time putting together the documents so you would have the correct information today to be able to make a recommendation so we can continue to move this forward. So I feel like you have in the record the correct information regarding this application um

5:48:42res despite those errors in in some of the staff stuff.

5:48:50So it's really up to the Planning Commission. I mean I If your concern is that we're not going to be able to I still think you're legally protected in that you can

5:49:03Because the board won't act on the Complant Amendment unless they're satisfied with the MPD. The M they won't be you're gonna get to make a recommendation on the MPD before the board acts on it, so you can tell them whether you're satisfied with the MPD or not. I mean, is there some little bit of a leap of faith that you may not like these sub area policies exactly how they've been drafted? I guess that is possible. Um but you would have to trust that staff

5:49:33and barber that if that if you're not gonna make a rec your ultimate hammer is that you say I'm not gonna improve the MPD unless the subway policy gets amended. And you do have that hammer.

5:49:46This is a MPD's not getting past us unless staff and A and Barbara go amend the suburbate policy that we approved previously.

5:49:54You can do that.

5:49:57Well I'm trying to figure out how Before you're talking about how we're going to potentially delay their approval, and wouldn't that then in effect delay their approval?

5:50:06Not really because then would you think that's the right-of-way.

5:50:13It's because there's this delay of sending it up to the state who never gives us any comments on anything. It's almost a ridiculous process that we have to follow because it's amending the comm plan and the old days the state used to give us meaningful comments on compliment amendments. They almost never do anymore. But there's still this process we have to follow, we have to send it to them. So We will send it up to the state. They'll probably send it back without any comments. And then Planning Commissioner at that point will have had the MPUD and

5:50:43the board will have then have the MPUD. So The only reason I'm saying that it saves them time is because it allows them to get the compliance transmitted to get DEOs lack of comments.

5:50:56Wasn't that how we got here in the first place?

5:51:00It never got transmitted by the board.

5:51:03Because the board But that's what we got told is why we needed to vote on it that day. Well, this is just to transmit it.

5:51:10Yeah,

5:51:11that's

5:51:12so th what happened is you remember this one got transmitted before the code changed, and as a result of comments made by the Planning Commission, including you, Commissioner Moody, we changed the code to require better notice for complaint amendments. So what happened is the board said This needs to be heard by the Planning Commission with the newly required code notice.

5:51:35And look

5:51:35what

5:51:35happened.

5:51:36Okay, so now they did the newly required code notice and this is what we got. Okay, so we actually got meaningful Comments from the public and probably meaningful comments from the Planning Commission, which didn't occur before. Which Barbara says she appreciates. I don't know if she's telling the truth, but I always tell the truth.

5:51:53And I actually do appreciate I'd rather it now than later.

5:51:58So It is still possible to be uh I'm not gonna tell you that you you can't continue this until the MPUD comes. You could do that. Legally you could do that. But I also think that

5:52:11I might not be inclined to continue until an MPUD comes. I might be inclined to continue it till you can come back and show me a little bit more about three and four.

5:52:21Yeah, yeah, yes.

5:52:23Which typically would be in the M P U D, but uh Well

5:52:26they've got that kind of level of detail already for a one and two I can't imagine listen, I'm not expecting Arnold Palmer to design every hole of golf. Between now and then, but someone can show me that let's see, I see some condos here in this aerial photo that there's not going to be a golf cart maintenance barn in

5:52:47there. Trust me, I that's exactly what I requested because Justina does this very detailed plan for area one and two, and I think it looks good. Maybe others don't like it, but I thought it looked good, Justina. And but there's no similar they didn't hire Justina to do the golf course or area three So there's no detail. So I think that's a fundamental problem with the tennis courts.

5:53:08But they can't do anything until both are approved, right? That's correct. Correct. So so I I I'm just struggling with the why we don't approve the comp plan. On our side and wait till the I mean we we can ad we can still have time to address this stuff. I mean we tell Barbara what what we're looking for and what the concern is. I mean the detail in low areas three and four. the timing of the the uh Vision Road H. Um, I mean those those kind of things I think need to be identified with the MPD

5:53:38when it comes as far as it needs to be formulated.

5:53:47I I do need to make a procedural objection um for the record, if I may. This will take thirty seconds. If you look at section future land use A six in the comprehensive plan under P D, comprehensive plan amendment requests for the assignment of a P D future land use classification. Must be accompanied by a concept plan identifying a range of uses, density, intensity, maximum units, and non residential square feet. And I believe that what's being discussed up here is that there is

5:54:17a lack of certainty on that. So

5:54:19I just want to put that in the

5:54:20right-of-way.

5:54:25It exceeds that requirement.

5:54:27So

5:54:28ba based on that, I mean and then Barbara with the understanding that y I mean we've Told you what we want you to come back with for the MPD. I'll make a motion to approve.

5:54:37I'll second it.

5:54:40We have a motion uh to approve the comp plan that's been submitted. Any further discussion?

5:54:47And to be clear, we're talking about the applicant's revised proposal. That was presented today. The prior version that is kind of in staff's report. That's correct. Okay.

5:54:59Any any caveats to that?

5:55:01No, I mean it just the the the statement that you know w we need more detail. Before I can support anything on the zoning or the M P D level, I need more detail than what's here. But just to keep things moving along from the comp plan standpoint.

5:55:17Okay. We have a motion, we have a second further discussion.

5:55:22Oh. Well I was just gonna say and

5:55:26Yeah, there's been a question of compatibility. Um you know, where I voted against something that was like this was Quahala. And that that was a golf course that got converted to and to houses. And so I appreciate the fact that this is being kept as a golf course. the the other units are being are being pushed up to State Road fifty four, which is appropriate, I think. And uh but again

5:55:57to echo what's already been said, yeah, I think it's important to see the detail of the when and the where of where the driving range is being moved to and You know, I've always never figured out why the driving range was up there anyway. That, you know, it's kind of inaccessible if you're out there playing golf. Um and then just to echo my comments based on I didn't have these numbers uh before, but based on 155 townhomes and four hundred and

5:56:27sixty-five multifamily units. We would project about 65 or 6 elementary students, 30 middle school students, 39 high school students. Of course, we get impact fee from that. One thing I didn't mention besides the other schools we're already doing is the plan to add wings to some of these schools in these areas to help with the capacitors.

5:56:55The things that uh we don't know and I think are critical are, you know, w where are the tennis courts? You know what's gonna happen to the tennis courts? What's gonna happen to the uh people that are on the golf course now, they're looking out over the golf course. And yeah, is it fair that they bought a home on the golf course and suddenly somebody comes in and wipes it out? Um well you know, they don't really have an option. Like some of those places I know I w I was involved in one of 'em where

5:57:26I didn't support uh what they did. You know, they just planted trees on the golf course. You know. But at at least those people were given the opportunity to to kick in a little money and they would have been able to keep it. I thought that was foolish.

5:57:41Yes.

5:57:41But um Here th they're not ha they don't have that option. You know, they're just they already live there, they've already made their investment. They you know, they've got Uh you know they've got a c outside company that they probably need, but maybe they don't un really know that they need 'em like they do. But if you know, I think it's true that if you don't do something eventually your g your beautiful development's gonna die. 'Cause you're not gonna have the money to

5:58:11fix it up. It's just gonna keep getting worse and worse and worse. So um, you know, I think Somehow, if you can Work with this developer if they have the money to make it happen. Yeah. But you know, in this country it's still okay to make money. You know, but we're just trying to be fair. Yeah. However, you know, my I feel my responsibility is not necessarily to the developer, it's

5:58:42to the people that live there. So I think the the you know, I I have to know a little bit more about What's gonna happen to those peop people's po uh views and their and the w what where are they gonna play tennis? Where is it gonna have the tennis school? Where the all that stuff is very important to that community. And I think it can all be done. I just think it's a matter of timing and how we approach it. So you know, I think unfortunately

5:59:13all of us up here have maybe a little bit different ideas of how to approach it, but I know one thing, I just hate to just take a shot in the dark and hope it works out.

5:59:23So so Mr. Chair, I know we have a motion on the floor, but I just want to be clear, Barbara were you done with your rebuttal because everybody kept interrupting you. I just want to make sure

5:59:30you it's fine. I this dialogue was more important than telling you things that you can anticipate what I would say to respond to. So

5:59:37I just

5:59:37didn't want to Cut

5:59:39you off

5:59:39again. Okay.

5:59:42He he really did.

5:59:50The company or the corporation or the investment company

5:59:55has representatives here and I hope they heard the public about some improvements that must be made. Not just some. I think they really need to make some significant investment in the community itself. I've been to Saddlebrook recently And it is not the Seth Weightman past. It was dirty, the spa is closed, there is uh s the restaurant is

6:00:23is not really a restaurant. I I don't want to use too much of a negative wording there. But the company does need to step up and be to be more proactive in listening to the community's concerns. You heard a lot to hear today. I think there you heard me about green lighting, the two areas up there. you know, what happens to the golf course down the road. I have a good friend of mine that's in that industry. In fact he was here just last week.

6:00:54He said hi he definitely runs high end golf courses. And I do mean high end. And he indicated that Saddlebrook was a is a great facility, you know. But he also said the golf business is in somewhat of a decline. We see recently see Applebrook that close down. The course that I live on in [address removed] does not have the numbers going through it again. But Saddlebrook is a little different story. It is an academy. It runs a school there.

6:01:24The tennis program is outstanding. I have friends of mine that when I lived in Texas, there were pro football players that came up here and used that facility, as we heard here. The lady who spoke about all the athletes who visit that facility and not visit, but actually work out there. She was correct in the fact that those people do come back here. So I hope I hope and pray that your company does listen to the comments that were made because Saddlebrook is

6:01:55as some of the folks in here said earlier and I have read in my twenty years that I've lived here it has been The diamond in Wesley Chapel. So that

6:02:07closed, that's all I have to say. So I just want to make one final comment, which is I want to be clear with the public that Planning Commission and the Board regulate land use and as part of that regulation of land use we regulate the detail the amount of detail that's in plans and what can go where. I want to be clear that we do not regulate Saddlebrook's business model. There

6:02:28was

6:02:28a lot of questions that was asked today about how much somebody's paying for this and but we can't stop if somebody made a bad investment in Saddlebrook, that's not our role. So I want to be clear that we're not gonna see any conditions from the Planning Commissioner Board of County Commissioners that get into Saddlebrook's business model or who's saying what for what. We don't regulate that. Right. So a lot of you spoke today But we can't do much about any of that.

6:02:55And a lot of that is the way it was set up by Mr. Dempsey. I mean when you heard your those condo owners speak, that's the way that was set up when they bought into that. So

6:03:07But thank you.

6:03:08And let let me just say for the record and I'll give you fellows the chance to finish, but Um I you may or may not know this, but In my opinion, you're very fortunate that you have Miss Wilhite as the representative for this buyer. this investor because she is invested in this community. She's lived here for a long time. She served in this county and she's a person of integrity. I think you can work with her. I

6:03:39think you should try to work with her. And with the developer.

6:03:46Derek?

6:03:48S so I think some of the um even though it's outside of our purview, the comments that were made regarding the the business model, I think that was uh Uh Mr Chairman Mariano a really good point. That the the developer has to have a reason to be able to come in and spend all this money on the resort. And so they there it has to be a profitable business model, otherwise you don't have a developer. And so they're they're you know, I think just for uh getting that message out to the public, for them to understand the

6:04:19the business side of things that you know you you there there's a reason for some of these multi-units and us be able to generate enough profit uh hopefully to be able to dump put money into the the resort. So that's I think that was a valid uh even though we don't have any regulation over that obviously that's a valid valid point. But um I I'd just like to add that that to I would also like to see uh added to that level of detail um because we've done a lot of discussion about areas three and four and and having more detail there. But also

6:04:49one of the other big concerns was not uh not only how the traffic and and uh strain is gonna be put on the infrastructure for the county for uh State Road fifty four and and schools and so forth, but also the strain that's gonna be put on to the neighborhood roads for the people that live there. Um and um so uh as well as um um you know possible being able to access the the resort property in the Gulf areas through trails and things like that when as of now is completely gated. So that's that's one of the other

6:05:19concerns that was brought up by um the public and I think that needs to be addressed as well in in uh in the detail um discussing how um you know as as of now there's that one entrance to to South and um to build uh 400 some units that are right next door to that with an access to that same entry point uh could put a pretty big strain on the uh the access to the neighborhood. So um how that might be mitigated um I think that'd

6:05:49be a uh something else to add into that detail for us to look at to be able to swage the public um as to how they're gonna mitigate that impact.

6:06:00Okay.

6:06:03I'm not so much opposed to the proposal, although I agree we desperately need some more detail before we can make permanent decisions. What I'm more opposed to is the process. And I stated that the day I pulled this from the consent agenda. And I'm actually kind of sick to that. I'm sick about that.

6:06:30that we have this entire room filled with people and the first time this case came to us it was on the consent agenda. Okay. And I said that day we don't approve projects of this magnitude on the consent agenda. And I also said that day that when people buy houses that what they and I know what they paid for them in Saddlebrook on a golf course that they had a reasonable expectation that they would be living on a golf course and

6:07:00I think they still have that reasonable expectation. Maybe they don't have the hundred percent legal rights, but they've got some expectation.

6:07:11I don't personally feel like the developer is going to suffer that this project is going to die or the developer is going to suffer some great economic loss by delaying this project two weeks to the next Planning Commission meeting or one month so that we can have it here over in Dade City. Which is why I would be more in support of a continuance. But if you all want to move it forward, I'll be the low naval tonight.

6:07:37Well I will say though I think it's highly unlikely they can develop the level of detail we're asking for in areas three and four in a couple weeks.

6:07:44I think what they can do, they may not be able to develop all the detail, but they'll probably be able to develop enough assurance that we don't have to have a room full of people.

6:07:55The Board of Commissioner We

6:07:58can we ask that question, Mr. Landry or Harbor?

6:08:03The question being

6:08:04being uh how much can you come up with and without delaying this process too much further, how much detail can you come up with?

6:08:14I think what you have to do is you have to give these people assurance that you're not going to build the golf cart maintenance shed in right behind the sliding doors of their condominium. You need to make sure that if they've got a view of a fairway, that all of a sudden it's not lake detention, that it's a fairway. You don't need Arnold Palmer to come in and design every hole of golf, but I think you can get down to those cup things and I think you can do that in a short order short amount of time.

6:08:46Because at the end of the day what I'm hearing from the rest of 'em is if you don't do that, we're not going to approve your MPUD anyways.

6:08:52Well let us work on that level of M P D detail. I mean that's the that's the thing. That's a level of MPUD detail. That's what we

6:08:58want to get to. We're assigning entitlements to this development today. Those entitlements aren't going away if we approve those today. Right now it's res six. We all know what we got. Now we're going to approve, well, we're approving this many square feet and this many apartments and this many square feet of retail over here, and we don't ultimately know that you're going to come back with a proposal. And if you don't come back with a proposal that everybody can live with, we've

6:09:28already changed the entitlements on the property. That's my issue with separating this process.

6:09:40Yeah.

6:09:42That was why I asked what they could do without the MPUD approval.

6:09:48Are you saying are you indicating there there's other development they can do with just the land use modification?

6:09:53I mean they could probably they certainly could refurbish existing buildings, but they're not gonna be able to do area one and area two without the MPD approval.

6:10:02Right. Even though we give them the entitlements for the land use, I get I understand that.

6:10:07I mean realistically the new entitlements are going in areas one and two. I mean they're not really allocating any new entitlements to

6:10:14behind the gate there's really not any additional entitlements. I mean they took those away.

6:10:17I mean maybe a little bit in area three.

6:10:26Okay.

6:10:27Okay, so we have a motion and a second. If there's no further discussion, let's have a vote on the motion.

6:10:34To be

6:10:34clear, the motion on the floor is to recommend to the Board of County Commissioners that they transmit The version of the Plan Amendment that we heard today from the applicant. Right.

6:10:48Okay.

6:10:50Okay, is that right? Yeah. Okay. So we have a motion and a second further discussion. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Uh all opposed signified by saying nay. That's me. Nay. I say nay too. Yeah. All right. So the motion carries.

6:11:12We have the clerk. Did you need a roll call or do you know the vote?

6:11:19Yeah. Correct. Correct.

6:11:21Thank you.

6:11:28Sure, so not only that listen to Johnson, so that wasn't you too.

6:11:33Never would I do that.

6:11:35Not the million years, not you.

6:11:39Well listen, I'm not gonna go home and sleep. We're going to get a second bite at the apple at the MPUD, but my point is I'm just gonna put myself in there too.