P10 amendment 68 Land Development Code

2:44:21Well you know, I I promised someone that I would get something done before the end of the day. I'm sorry. I feel bad. No, no, no, no sorries. Okay, so Denise Hernandez Planning and Development. We are uh on agenda, I think it's P10, PEG 240281. This is amendment 68 to the Land Development Code. We know these types of amendments as typically as minor minor modifications. This is a minor modification to the Land Development Code. These proposed amendments

2:44:51have been on our website for public inspection since about February 27th. with all the proposed modifications. And they were previewed to the horizontal roundtable and interested parties on February 21st, 2024, and actually presented to them yesterday, March 20th, 2024. So these are as I said some minor modifications to the land development code the first item and we're removing a lot of legacy information.

2:45:21So basically the first item is we're removing from the table that where the public notice requirements is located, we're removing developments of regional impact, we're removing developments of regional impact substance substantial amendments. NOPC, Development of Regional Impact, Non-Substantial Amendment, N O P C And then we're adding to that table county initiated comprehensive plan amendments to con conservation future land use for those to be published and county initiated

2:45:52comprehensive plan amendments to other than con for those to be published and posted. The next modification that we're proposing is in permit types and applications under 402.1 zoning amendments. So this is removing the requirement to submit a wetland delineation. So our colleagues at natural resources believe that this is this is something that was request requested by the industry, but also our colleagues at natural resources

2:46:22believe that this is too early in the process to request a wetland delineation survey at the Euclidean zoning stage. This doesn't mean that we do not send the request request to natural resources. We do. We send the request to them for them to comment and they do provide comments. And as you've seen, they will continue to provide comments. The next item is you'll see this in several sections, which is basically in this particular application is in mining operating permits. It

2:46:52will also come out in construction, demolition, debris, disposal facilities, and also in yard trash processing facilities. Traffic impact study has not existed for many, many, many years. So we're replacing traffic impact study with timing and phasing analysis and modifying the code reference to 901.12 because 901.5 is a reserve section doesn't exist. Again, those um stating it in the two applications. This next item is actually the really and true impetus for getting this

2:47:22minor modification out to you as quickly as possible. Um there was a an a mist a mistake made in four oh six point one point six when we called out window signs and sandwich signs as temporary signs. They're not temporary signs, they're just basically signs that Are there when the business is open? They put out the the sandwich sign kind of like in the little sidewalk area in front of the business. Same with window signs. Window signs are are changed based on different sales that occur in the business. So they were not intended

2:47:52to be temporary signs. They were intended to be other types of signs that don't have time limitations. So we made the corrections in the code to show that. This is another location where traffic impact study is being replaced with timing and phasing analysis and right-of-way use permits, the same with garden plan permits. This next section is RMH, the Mobile Home District. It has not had a maximum maximum lot coverage called out. It

2:48:22also did not have, it was silent on building height. So we've added that the maximum lot coverage is 65%. We also added that the maximum building height for single-family detached dwellings, modular homes, and factory-built homes to be 45 feet, and that's consistent with the change that the Board of County Commissioners asked us to make. To the residential zoning districts a few years ago, so 45 feet. And then for manufactured and mobile homes, the maximum height would be 15 feet. And that height

2:48:53was arrived at with consultation with our colleagues over in building construction services.

2:49:02So the next item is in impact to listed and protected species. So it also removes the mentions of developments of regional impacts and it clarifies that zoning amendments to MPUD are the ones that require preliminary habitat assessment, not a Euclidean rezoning. So the next section is 901.3 access management again removes the mentions of traffic impact study. in uh in both the section and also in the set sample problem number one. That's just that's just stricken out.

2:49:33And the uh mention of concurrency is also stricken out in that section. And then the last thing is an appendix A definitions. We're modifying the definition of window signs and we're modifying the definition of temporary signs. In the definition of temporary signs, the sandwich style sign was included in there. We're just striking that out. And in the definition of window signs, we're just making it clearer and simpler. And um that is what I've got for you. This is going to the Board of County

2:50:03Commissioners for first reading on April 10th, 2024 at 130 in Dade City and for adoption on April 23rd, 2024 at 130 in Newport Ritchie. We are asking that you please find the proposed amendments consistent with the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan and that you recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners. And I'm here for any questions that you may have.

2:50:25So I w I wanted to say one thing just as an announcement. So the legislature just Passed the law of this session. that is now going to re assuming the governor signs it into law, it's gonna require every time staff does one of these amendments to the land development code. for them to prepare a business impact statement. Even if it's a minor fix like this, they're now gonna have to do which Mr Ingle is aware of and Luckily the planning devo department got merged with the Department of Economic Growth, so I guess they're gonna be ready ready to do those business

2:50:56impact statements.

2:50:59So uh I'm just alerting you that You may see m amend some amendments come in before October one because they don't want to do a business impact statement, but You also may see that that the time period to get these through the process may change because they've got to do this business impact analysis after October one. Depending on their workload.

2:51:20Yeah, and and just to just for the record, this one was not done quickly to get it through before the business impact statement. This is just, you know, something that we really needed to change in terms of the the the signs is really the the main impetus. So

2:51:34So that's good for business.

2:51:35It's good for business, yeah.

2:51:36Yeah, but that's the kind of the ridiculous part is even if it's an amendment that's clearly helping business. They're still gonna have to do this analysis. Impact study. It will it will be impacted positively.

2:51:48Um the only one that stood out to me was the height regs on uh five eleven point eight. Um So did that not exist before those heights?

2:51:58It was it was silent. It did not exist. It was basically silent on hikes.

2:52:03Okay. So so then my next question then the mobile manufacturer fifteen foot maximum I mean So I guess you guys consulted with what existing construction is of mobile manufactured and there's really nothing built that's higher than fifteen feet, I would

2:52:19assume.

2:52:24And I specifically talked to one of the plans examiners that that is her specialty doing mobile manufactured homes. And she actually suggested 10 feet. feet. So I just went up another five feet to fifteen feet just in case there were any issues with that.

2:52:39Yeah, like m my issue with that is, you know, what if some what if a design changes to where, you know, they wanna Higher roof pitch for architectural design and they start manufacturing mobile homes that have a higher pitch or you know maybe a higher ceiling height inside, you know, because manufacturers can always change that.

2:52:58And our and our code handles that because it tells you our code gives uh clarification how building height is actually measured. First off, it's measured from the base flood elevation, so it's not measured from the existing grade if in a in a location whether it's in a flood zone. And then secondly, it's measured to half the halfway point to the pitch of the roof. So it's not measured all the way to the top of the roof.

2:53:19So Garrick, I actually had the same conversation with Denise on the telephone about this. And for a mobile home to be towed down the road it can't exceed a height of thirteen feet six inches. Makes sense. So the question becomes when we put the mobile home on the site Because how many courses of block is it sitting up on? I could see the potential where there's probably some site where there's they'll call

2:53:49it topographically challenged maybe. where you could p potentially end up with a mobile home that's above fifteen feet. But I think they're probably

2:54:00a couple on Green Key Road, aren't they?

2:54:02Well especially since when you're in the flood zone, your height is measured from the f base flood elevation. Yeah. So this would only happen on, you know, places that aren't in flood zones where maybe there was some unique topography. that required it to be elevated. Higher than normal on the site. I don't want to say it couldn't happen. And and um and inevitably the first time we as soon as we pass this somebody'll have one it'll be fifteen feet

2:54:32one inch, but

2:54:34I would say we've also had some code enforcement cases where people have stacked

2:54:38Stacked mobile phones on top of one another. Yeah and Denise

2:54:40explained that

2:54:41to me too.

2:54:44Rare. A double stack. The one

2:54:46thing two story.

2:54:50Punch of

2:54:50hole through the roof, right? No.

2:54:53outside.

2:54:53There's nothing saying a a manufacturer could design something like especially manufactured. In theory it could be modular and have two different stories and

2:55:02now but our code very specifically distinguishes to us a manufactured and a mobile are one and the same. That's why modulars are included in the forty five. Right.

2:55:11So the modular Well, this has mobile and manufactured homes.

2:55:17Correct. So to us mobile and manufactured are there.

2:55:22Modular is manufactured

2:55:24as well.

2:55:25Correct

2:55:28has to have engineering standards.

2:55:29And one I'm not opposed to the language, but the question that I would have 'Cause why do we make a distinction? What if What if a manuf mobile home manufacturer an innovative mobile home manufacturer were to come up with

2:55:47a two story mobile home, right? They make double wides. We take two mobile homes and we stick 'em together and make a double wide. I could see where um I an innovative manufacturer could bring four units and add a second story onto the thing too, that why make a distinction between whether it's site built or whether it's mobile? What's I I don't understand from a zoning perspective.

2:56:09So um how does that make

2:56:10a difference in somebody's

2:56:12not from a it's not from the zoning perspective specifically, but mobile and manufactured homes have like they have a a HUD insignia or whatever. And they're I I I've I've personally and I did ask my colleagues, have you ever seen them where they build them two stories in height? And they're just like, no, that's not how how they they're that that's not how their HUD's certified. Now if there's a new thing that would happen in the future. I I'll disagree with

2:56:37I'll disagree with the staff about that. That's modular homes. That's the now we're getting into the difference. Mobile homes Are Sanctioned by the Department of Motor Vehicles. Okay.

2:56:54That's why they're called mobile homes. Right. That's why they're called mobile homes. But

2:56:57could you have a lot of people?

2:56:58And for many, many, many years and you require a

2:57:00license there.

2:57:02Correct. There are two level buses.

2:57:08I'm just asking why why is there a need to draw a distinction in height?

2:57:13Because of the what David specifically stated, that the stacking of two together, we've seen that before.

2:57:21The flip side of it is what are you trying to prevent

2:57:22by

2:57:23putting it in?

2:57:23I guess my question is, so David, why would one be offended if someone tries to do So

2:57:29That wasn't asked Denise's question to get to that issue, which is I don't know if these are built to the standard to which they are built are s it's sufficient to survive hurricanes if they're double stacked. And the reason I didn't know this is because our hurricane Mitigation requirements apply to mobile homes throughout the county. They do not apply to modular homes. So I think there is a different Can I there is a hur there's a bigger hurricane risk with a Mobile home.

2:58:00than there is with a modular home. And I don't know if that hurricane risk is made worse by it Stacking higher.

2:58:08So can I answer that question now speaking as a professional engineer?

2:58:12Sure.

2:58:12So

2:58:15If I bring a mobile home that is certified by and these are certified at the federal level, mobile homes, okay. I bring a mobile home onto site as manufactured and put it on the site. That's one thing. If I attempt to modify that mobile home I just triggered the Florida building code and all of the things that go with it. And I'm sure that the people in the building department, because believe me, we get the calls

2:58:45at my office about this all the time. People they go and they decide I'm gonna add on an extra bedroom to my mobile home and they do not realize that they have just opened Pandora's box to the point where they'll probably lose their home because they'll never be able to certify that it meets the Florida building code. So I think you're concern is somewhat unfounded in that if they tried to stack them on top of each other and they weren't manufactured and approved by the federal government like that. they'd be under the the Florida building

2:59:15code and Good luck finding the engineer that's gonna sign and seal that design.

2:59:21I understand that, but I think to your point, um it no longer is reviewed as a mobile manufactured home. It would then be be a Another type of use. Yes. So I mean for example, I'm gonna give you the example of folks who want to do um want to repurpose store shipping containers to be homes, which we haven't seen one yet, but there are a lot of folks who want to do that. So the the actual unit stops being a shipping container. It's it's now uh A

2:59:52an actual home that's placed on a permanent fixed foundation. Right. Has to meet the Florida building code. So we wouldn't we wouldn't look at it as a mobile or manufactured home.

3:00:05So your definition of mobile manufactured is What's basically But the transported version of that not with modifications.

3:00:16something that's lo that's sanctioned by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles as opposed to anything else. I mean

3:00:22I guess that's the question is would the federal or state government even sanction a mobile or manufacture home that's That high.

3:00:30Oh, I have no idea. I don't design mobile homes for but Well I'm just saying I could see That that would become possible and I think to Derek's point, I think what he's concerned with is we don't want to do something That starts creating an inordinate number of variances. I personally don't think a fifteen foot maximum is going to start creating a bunch of variances, but at least if someone does need one at fifteen foot two inches, They

3:01:01can come to the planning commission and ask for a variance.

3:01:05Yeah, I mean I think you need to just evaluate my personal opinion and see if you actually get anybody that legitimately Needs higher than fifteen feet and they come in with a variance. Then you can see if it's an issue.

3:01:18Yeah. uh time you're gonna run against that is like you said when you're building it up off of Right. They're put up on

3:01:26blocks and then some sites because of the ch topography it may require

3:01:30more

3:01:30than a little bit of a

3:01:31foot six inch mobile home and you put a couple of courses of blocks, you're already over the fifteen foot mark. So Um

3:01:41Is

3:01:41there a number you'd be happier with?

3:01:46Well, uh a number that's low enough that prevents people from stacking them, which is the problem that they were trying to address, correct? So but it also gives a little more so Twenty feet.

3:01:59Well that's two ten foot mobile homes. I could do that.

3:02:06Do they

3:02:06do ten foot mobile homes? I mean I don't know enough about it. So what is the standard size of a mobile home? Is it ten feet?

3:02:12So no the the maximum height when you drive something down the road is thirteen six. So that includes the wheels on the mobile home. Usually what the way a mobile home

3:02:26And then there's concrete blocks and foundation are built underneath the the frame of the mobile home and then the wheels are removed.

3:02:37Mm-hmm.

3:02:37And sometim and it's all great when you have a perfectly flat site. It's fine. It's gonna it's not gonna be higher than thirteen six. It's when you get some site that has some crazy grade changes and I've seen some of 'em if Actually if you go out there in the highlands there's some that are like that. And I could see where if you're standing on the low side, it's twenty feet tall. It could be like that.

3:03:05What are your thoughts, Denise? You don't have any?

3:03:09No, actually, as I stated, my colleagues s stated that based on what they have seen, ten feet is very acceptable. I added another five feet to that, considering that maybe someone would have like uh a structure that would have maybe a pitched roof or or whatever. So that's why I added another. So that's why I suggested fifteen feet. Because again the district is is um is silent And I know it's probably exception, not the rule, but

3:03:39I I have seen the application of two two men two mobile homes stacked on one another.

3:03:46But you said earlier if they did that Then that puts them into the whole business of their not mobile homes at that point. Right.

3:03:53It would, but in this particular case they were not retrofitted. They just Stacked on a it it was it was a violation all around.

3:04:01Well then how would one get from one mobile home to the other? You would have to modify it.

3:04:06They did two sets of stairs. Ladder? Yes.

3:04:09Outdoor stairs.

3:04:11Yes. I'll try to find it for you on the

3:04:13right-of-way.

3:04:13All right, I understand.

3:04:16To your point though, right? So that's already a violation anyway. That's so

3:04:21it's a violation of the Florida building code, but I couldn't say it was a violation of the building height because the the district is silent on the height.

3:04:27But you wouldn't need to, right? Because it would still be a violation. They'd still have to tear it down or remedy it in some way anyway. So you don't really need the height restriction.

3:04:36I I don't recall what the I I think the the mobiles oh sh still sitting there. There was a reason, but I just don't remember what it was.

3:04:46I mean I think the fifteen feet covered us. I think we're trying to figure out why we're trying to bend

3:04:51over backwards.

3:04:57I'm just saying from a property value standpoint, we the property values of Pasco County are maximized with modular and mobile. Attached buildings, not mobile homes. Yeah,

3:05:06that's right.

3:05:07Exactly. Alright, I'll stop beating dead horse.

3:05:11You're going

3:05:12the wrong way.

3:05:16Three and a half

3:05:17feet.

3:05:22I would move that we find the proposed ordinance and amendment consistent with the Pasco County comprehensive plan and recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners.

3:05:30Very well worded,

3:05:30I second.

3:05:32We have a motion and a second further discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye.

3:05:39Thank you.

3:05:42Good job. I can't believe

3:05:44nobody

3:05:45stuck around for you. What?

3:05:48Oh,

3:05:48you did? Yeah.

3:05:49When you weren't like what Barbara was saying in there, I thought you

3:05:52said that.

3:05:55She just two of these modifications were based on some things that she had brought up. So