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Not on the published agendaRegular businessInferred

Sinkhole remediation options and community input

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The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Oct 17, 2017

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Approved minutes

The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Oct 17, 2017

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What was said

Transcript

Machine transcription of 35m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 62% of 254 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

Read it in the meeting →
Mike Moore

Next call to brief.

County Administrator

Okay. Pasco.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

All right, good morning everyone. Kevin Guthrie, Assistant County Administrator for Public Safety. And Dumbledore. Where we're at on the sinkhole and appropriately what comes next. We are at a point where we need the board's input on what should be our next steps with the sinkhole. So the picture on the um on the left there is what it looked like the evening of the first day. The picture on the right is what it looks like today.

Um we got Nice uh clear water there. We've got all of the contaminants out of the water. Moving on.

Mike Moore

There's still some things in that hole

Unidentified speakerVoice A

though. There there are. Yeah,

Mike Moore

there's

Unidentified speakerVoice A

still a car. There's two there's a house. There's two actually there's two houses, a car, a motorcycle.

Kathryn Starkey

What? We're not getting it out?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

No. Well wait for USF,

Mike Moore

I

think

you can discuss

Unidentified speakerVoice A

this, but but those are still Yes. That is underneath a lot of construction debris which is you know center block house which is okay to be in the ground.

Mike Moore

Sure.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Um it's also a lot of sand, dirt, grass is over the top of all those cars. And when uh I do believe someone is here from USF that can tell us what the bottom of that hole looks like and it is it is completely flat. It is uh grass, dirt and so on.

Mike Moore

Everything's under that.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, if if we got into the point of going down to get every bit of that stuff out of that hole, then you're going well, number one, we're gonna potentially cause problems that USF can speak about. The other thing it's going to do is astronomically raise the fund on or ha the the dollar amount on the clean up. We'll go through

County Administrator

great.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

All right, so I'm sorry I went past that one. So So what are we looking at? Success in regards to the sinkhole remediation is to number one stabilizing uh the area for unrestricted use and stabilize just enough for safe uh reconstruction of roadway such as a leave as is. And so that's what we're going to be looking at. To get to those points, we need to do additional geotechnical investigation is going to be required at a tune of about a hundred to two hundred thousand dollars. USF suggests uh Recippy survey to clarify how the

lake interacts with the underground surrounding the areas. That's going to cost us about 15,000. And I will say that's astronomically lower than what it would cost if we went with a private entity. So the uh one of the great things that have come out of this is our public-private partnership with the University of South Florida. And then the geotechnical investigation is needed prior to any further action. So the concept is to remove all the debris from the sinkhole that's been done, grout the hole. That is going to be something that we have to talk about and then restore it for unrestricted use. Again,

something that needs to be discussed. What are the estimated costs? If we put this back to somewhat pristine condition, we're looking at a cost of between eight and twelve million dollars. Assuming original parameters, we are in conjunction with series of our remediation experts. The estimate is to be between three and four million based on the Orlando sinkhole that was roughly 300 feet in diameter and 350 uh 300 feet deep, uh it would cost roughly eight million. That was in 1981 dollars. So again, that's why we're

setting our potential cost on this is between eight and twelve million dollars. Again, that's to put it back to pristine condition to where it can be used. as a passive park or something along those lines. That is that is option one. USF did a uh bathometric survey on October the fifth and noted that the sinkhole was filled apparently with construction uh when while we constructed the berm. The current depth is roughly only about ten feet. Originally it was about fifty, so the bottom forty feet of that has

filled in with uh House debris, uh sand dirt, uh lime. Which is consistent and and we do have constant irrigation bubbles that are being observed. The liability to special taxing district for ongoing maintenance and operation um there The the subdivision out there is concerned about taking on the O and M of this, but uh and their attorney may be here today, I'm not sure. Well uh I'm

Mike Moore

so let me stop you there for a second. Um liability I mean this is this is not this is not a a C D D neighborhood. It's not even a true HOA if I'm not sure. Right. There is a special

County Administrator

taxi district for the maintenance of parks and other

special district out there for the maintenance of some of the parks and some of the other things. Well some of the some of the roads and and

Mike Moore

drainage and things like that. Not the roads. No. It's a parks only.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

All right.

Mike Moore

So I'm gonna keep going. We can talk about it more, but that concerns me too. I thought we're gonna go through the whole presentation. Well right now we'll talk about this for a second. Yeah.

Just for the record, yeah, yeah, that that would concern me having a small neighborhood like that trying to take on a cost of eight to twelve million dollars. It's not a private and it's not a quote private neighborhood, it's not a gated neighborhood, so that means anybody and everybody can come in. So

County Administrator

Yeah, I think the bullets at the two two bullets at the bottom were with respect to once it's back in pristine condition, the long term means that not to get it in pristine conditions.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I I would say this to the Chairman's point. We're not looking to charge eight to twelve million of to the to the homeowners there. We're talking about the long term OM of them taking on On the responsibility of something that has been a sinkhole.

Mike Moore

Okay, so Lona, let me just Commissioner Starkey had something. I

know

it was later down the road, but let me see if she wants to talk about it first, and then you can jump in.

Kathryn Starkey

Well, I I just was gonna ask about the cleanliness of leaving cars in a sinkhole like that.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Ma'am, we have we have cars and sinkholes um in just about every part of Pasco County.

Kathryn Starkey

So how hard is it to pull a car?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

When it's underneath uh literally several feet of dirt and debris, it's gonna be very, very difficult. You gotta remember the car was in the garage. The roof, the cinder block, all that cement block is on top of that car. It's on top of that motorcycle. It is not the car wasn't on top, you know, obviously the house. All of the house fell on top of the car.

Kathryn Starkey

So the oil and all all the contaminants and the car. car it's okay to be in the water up there.

County Administrator

Okay, that

Kathryn Starkey

was

County Administrator

just my question.

The problem is it's buried below several feet of other stuff that you

Kathryn Starkey

I grew up in Miami well, spent a lot of time in Miami where they use the big claws to get lime rock out and that's exactly how much could it possibly be to claw We're

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I I would roughly estimate because of the special needs that are gonna that would be that we would have to put an employee to do that based on the debris removal of other catastrophic incidents, it would not surprise me to get a quote back from Sirius Environmental of at least $20 million to clean up all of that all the way down to the Aqua.

Jack Mariano

Which another good point. If it's plugged right now, it's a good thing with all the debris that's there. If it's covered over with sand, it's it's not interacting with all the water, so it's not the worst thing that could happen. It is underneath. But it's covered by sand, I mean debris, so it's not getting too much into

Kathryn Starkey

the

water.

Mike Moore

So I think on that we might be able to when we're done with this, maybe the somebody from USF can even come speak to that.

Jack Mariano

So one one one point that I have, I I need to know what this eight to twelve million dollars is gonna be because that's number sounds absolutely phenomenal.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I will I think you're gonna see a option that everybody on the everybody here is gonna wanna take. So I'm sure that's right one. Again removing or getting to the point of returning it to pristine condition is eight to twelve million dollars. That would be leveled, all the water gone, a road back through it, all of that would be eight to twelve million dollars. The second option we have is potentially to connect it to Lake Saxon. Lake Saxon is to its south

and we'll call it its south and west. The county would have to purchase two houses in connection uh to connect the two together. The county pulls a permits, uses the county resources to complete, and the estimated cost would be about eight hundred thousand. We would still need to do some type of cul-de-sac so that fire equipment and whatnot could get turned around if they were to respond to those locations, which would be an additional one point. seven million dollars which would include the removal of three additional homes and that option all total would be as you see there at the bottom 2.5.

The next one is and we just leave we just leave it as it is without connecting it but then put in two cul-sacks. I'm not going to reiterate that because we just went over it but that would be the cost of 1.7 million. Another ca another concept would be to leave it as is and build a bridge across it. As you see, um the estimated cost of that was four million.

The sec the last or I shouldn't say the last option, I'm going to talk about an additional option that was that did not make it into the PowerPoint, but Margaret um gave us late last last evening was this particular concept is to do nothing and put a decorative fence around it. Put up signage saying, you know, uh do not enter at your own risk, so on and so forth. We're looking at about a fifty thousand dollar um situation there. However,

Mike Moore

a retention pond goes to a school that has a fence

Unidentified speakerVoice A

around it. Yeah. Just like a retention pond with a with a fence around it. Another option that um Margaret brought to us uh last night, or I shouldn't say last night, yesterday afternoon, was um we could do a sheet piling option. Sheet and we would drive sheet piling which is what they did along the I4 corridor with the sinkhole that was in Winter Park. And to do that, it would allow us to rebuild the road. If you can imagine the road going back through the middle of it, and I'm going to go back to the very first part

of my presentation. So connect the two points of the road, they're on this side. You drive sheet piling on the right-of-way to secure the edges. Right and left. Right and left. Okay. So what you would end up having is it would look more like this as far as the water's concerned, but you would just literally drive the road right back through it. To do that option, they're looking at about eight hundred thousand dollars to rebuild the road way back in there. And the water's underneath. And the no the water would not be underneath it. You'd

have sheet piles on both sides. You would drive those down all the way to the road. You'd have And build the road way back up. And left. Build the road up and that's it. I

Kathryn Starkey

don't

Unidentified speakerVoice A

know what a

Kathryn Starkey

sheet pile is. Is that like a dam on either side? Like sheet metal? Yes,

Unidentified speakerVoice A

ma'am.

Yes. Sheet metal, sheet metal, water, little little water on the left. If

this was water on the right. If in the middle of us was a hole, we're gonna drive sheet piles down on this side of the table, on this side of the table, and put the road back in. You would have water to the right, water to the left, but build the road back in.

Kathryn Starkey

And and then how do you treat

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, some carbs. Yeah. Now that that would obviously have to have a fence around it, you know, to to continue.

Kathryn Starkey

At what point do we let the community decide um what they want in their community? Well

County Administrator

so the the issue is uh it's the money. Yeah, what do we spend.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Well we

had

two uh community meetings set up before Hurricane Irma hit, then Hurricane Irma hit and we had to cancel both of those meetings because we

were

in the middle of response. Um we will because I knew that was going

to

be a question that comes up, we will take these options back to the community to get community insight and support before we bring back a final option to you all. Uh obviously we need to get some better numbers. Right now we're approximating these numbers. Uh if you say bring uh Kevin bring me back options you know two, four and five, um then that's what we will do and we'll bring you back harder numbers and then we'll also bring back what the community um based on your recommendations here will bring you back

what they would like to say.

Mike Moore

So I've had some meetings with the with the folks out there with staff, along with staff and obviously Take me. They can't speak for our house everybody but the people uh that were there were part of the part of the they take care of the lakes too and they spend money to take care of the lakes and then one of their big concerns would be for there there be a connection. Um they have some fears when when it comes to that. You know, for the folks there have spent a lot of money throughout the years of maintaining those lakes and keeping them as pristine

as possible. So anything that can jeopardize that does um concern them, which I can appreciate too, because these aren't public lakes, these aren't you know there's no public access. Um so they've had to work hard. So in my opinion, you know, any connection to the lake would probably I don't think that would go over too well with the with the folks in that com in the community that live along the lake.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Understood that the the concept behind that's more

Mike Moore

thing to maintain too.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Well right the the concept behind that was brought up by the University of South Florida, which would fix your problem long term. You would never have to worry about that sinkhole opening up again because if it does it's already a hole.

Mike Moore

I see.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Okay. That that that's that's the long term solution. It's a low cost, permanent, long term solution.

Mike Moore

So let me ask this then. I mean like that would become part of the lake. So ha the community then would be responsible for maintaining that portion. That just Yeah

County Administrator

we'd have to work that out with

Mike Moore

a big district. And then that's the big concern and then being and then giving them the comfort um that It can't not be detrimental to the quality of the water in the lake. Well I mean that's

Unidentified speakerVoice A

and I will say that that point I I think it's I think you should know this information and digest it. Flip has um or I should say um

Mike Moore

Flip was one of those meetings with

Unidentified speakerVoice A

the and the the water quality in the sinkhole is better than the water quality in the lake right now. That's

Mike Moore

really

Unidentified speakerVoice A

interesting. Well that was a that was we had to agree to that with D E P

as

an emergency measure that we would uh we would get the water quality in the retent or in the sinkhole at the same or better quality than the water that was at the lake and that was agreed to very early on in the emergency response.

Mike Moore

They'd be happy to hear that I'm sure that's good.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

And we have the test and we can prove all that.

So again, what I what we're looking for the board today is um I understand that I I think the the pleasure of the board would be to make sure that we involve the community and have some community meetings. But is there anything here that you would like to see us bring you back uh solid ground numbers on for a future?

Mike Moore

Nothing that costs eight or twelve million dollars. Yes, understand

that.

And I don't want to put that burden I couldn't imagine putting that burden on that. That's like no way, you know, no way. They can afford that. Yes, ma'am.

Kathryn Starkey

Um to me when I was out walking it it made great sense to attach it to the lake. And apparently maybe w at one time it was part of that lake. So um but I don't know how that affects the road patterns. And you have one option here, connect to Lake Saxon for a half a million, but then down here it's a cul-de-sac for 1.7. So let's say you do connect it to the lake. And you don't make it a cul-de-sac, well, you just have like stubbed roads?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

We have stubbed roads, but the the the the engineering problem of that is going to be if we have, for instance, a fire in a house at the end of that roadway, we would have to back those fire trucks all the way back out the roadway. We don't have a way to turn it on around.

Kathryn Starkey

So you need a T or something? A

Unidentified speakerVoice A

T or

Kathryn Starkey

a call de sacred. Okay.

Mike Moore

So if you if you did the just to go a little de more in depth to what Richard Starkey was saying, so if you did connect it um and you used the other plan uh put in the sh the sheet metal sheet piles

That's that'd be a

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Well we wouldn't be connecting it then because

Mike Moore

you

Unidentified speakerVoice A

drive those you would drive those sheet piles down far enough to where you would you basically you you just created a dam with the road.

Mike Moore

So how do we if could so if you connected it and the community was for that and they and uh we worked out something, you know, when it comes to maintenance and things like that and made made sure the water quality was good for 'em, I mean we still need a road.

County Administrator

Well,

Mike Moore

if

County Administrator

you want to connect the roads and you would need to build a bridge over the you'd need to build a bridge over the that area.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

And that's gonna be four million dollars. Yeah, so so

Mike Moore

that's what we're making the deal that's

right.

Can you show the picture again and show us the maybe show us the streets and the maybe a if we even have a hot C I'm just trying to figure out how those folks are gonna get to the home. Well they're both connected to the grid.

Ron Oakley

Well they're connected on the outside most

Mike Moore

of the both conveniently. They're both connected to the grid. Yeah, I know. I'm just trying to convenience. I'm just thinking convenience for them.

Ron Oakley

One time.

Mike Moore

Good, so I'm sorry, Commissioner Starkey's first.

Ron Oakley

Um if you don't connect the road back together, then one of those sides of the road that remains is gonna have to change the name or you'll really have a problem with fire or emergency coming to that area. If they had to keep the same name.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

It would probably be easiest to do that. Um And then the the portion to we'll call it to the south of the picture that goes around the corner and takes a 90 degree to our right is the shorter portion portion of that roadway. Right. So that would be the that would be our recommendation if the if a uh if you needed to make a change. Yeah. The other way to do it is that you could potentially call it um North and South. Uh north and south or east and west, whichever. This road runs all directions. But it doesn't

Ron Oakley

need to be confusing

Jack Mariano

for emergency anyway. Commissioner. Yeah, just I mean it's it's hard to see with the picture, but at the front, the lower part of the picture on the left hand side, there's a house that's there that connects. They haven't been impacted pretty much. Yeah,

Unidentified speakerVoice A

th well this house right here is uh is marked for condemnation right now. That particular house is about where my where where we're sitting at here, that house has um structural damage. It will not be able to be lived in again. No, no, no. It's got it's got roof damage, it's got tile damage, it's got foundation damage. Okay.

Jack Mariano

Sinkle's

Unidentified speakerVoice A

actually

Jack Mariano

the front of

it.

Right. It is. On the other side is that one to to be condemned as well.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

So there's there's a house up here there's also marked for uh um recommendation for condemnation is up here on this top Yeah.

Jack Mariano

Okay, so the same side of the road?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Same side of the road. And then as we come across, that house that's right there at the top, just above the white band, has been marked as well. And then this house right here, just at this side, there's a there's a house down on this end that's just out of the view that's also been marked for the same. All of those have structural foundational and roof damage.

Jack Mariano

Okay, so what's the So what is the stability to the left side of the screen as far as the dirt that's there?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Well to the left side of the screen is Lake Saxon. You're you're only about a hundred feet from Lake Saxon.

The lot the lot size there is one hundred by one hundred on all those lots, uh roughly. So you're you're about actually only about ninety feet from Lake Saxon.

Jack Mariano

If you're gonna build a If you're gonna end the road there. For and for all intents is what's assumed like needs to happen. Rather than having to spend all the money on a major cul-de-sac, is there a way you just c clear the land out so that on the event of a fire truck and d going down there, even if they're driving around the grass to get out at least they get around. So those for that rare event that's gonna happen. Rather than spending all the money in

Unidentified speakerVoice A

So let me uh let me show you this real quick and the reason for our truck I think

Mike Moore

if you had a if we had a more of a overhead Google tech view, I think that would help everybody too. Maybe somebody could do it. Do you have one of those Ken?

Jack Mariano

But it is all spire safety. It's all fire safe most if that cul-de-sac if the road comes and it dead ends and you just have grasp where a truck could go driving around.

Kathryn Starkey

Open space.

Jack Mariano

Yeah.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

So you go. Alright, so if you don't mind, I'm gonna go ahead and stand over here and and take this around us.

What the thought process is, you see here Here and here. These are anomalies that the geotechnical firm PSI, Intertech PSI, has already determined there's anomalies and potential sequels below the surface. So the thought process is as we remediate the road, we're gonna have to do some work on that road to start with. Again, $800,000 is is what uh um Margaret told us yesterday. If, if We were to build the

cul-de-sacs, the recommendation of engineering, roadway engineering is to go back to here and build the cul-de-sac and on this side come all the way back to here or staying clear of those anomalies. That's again their recommendation and I'll I'll refer with you uh Margaret on that because she is the uh county engineer. But that's where they would recommend putting those those uh cul-de-sacks in.

Jack Mariano

Could you draw the circle with the col where the sinkhole is?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

It's it's right here you can see right there. And the cut through if they were to uh do a connection to the lake is indicated by these licenses.

Mike Moore

So it's point out the houses that are condemned too.

Kathryn Starkey

But the

ones

Unidentified speakerVoice A

with the X's? So all the ones that have X's on them right now? Well that that's incorrect.

Mike Moore

There's more.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

The ones that have the the ones that are definitely condemned now are this one?

Mike Moore

Uh-huh.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

This one? This one. This one. Uh-huh.

Needed back in the ball.

Kathryn Starkey

You have one there on the water with a big dock? Is that one?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

No.

Mike Moore

Why is there an X on that?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

There's an X on that because in Margaret's situation, they would have had to buy all three of these houses to build this cul-de-sac. Uh and there there is nothing wrong with this house, nor any of these three.

Mike Moore

Yeah, so we didn't have a look.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I know there's a lot of X's on there. I was going to try to get a different color pen, but again the ones that the ones that are actually been in are again I'll I'll sort of annex those for you.

So we had the two that went in the hole, which are this one and this one. We have one on either side. two across the street. I will say Dan, I'm sorry there was one more, and it is this one here. That one is marked for condemnation as well. There is a lot of syncle activity on that particular um yeah. There's there's there's there's a lot of theories and I'm not gonna get into the theories because I can't speak to the theories and I don't as I look around the room I do not see our

US representative here. So um But again, somebody one of you did bring it up this morning. This all all the way back to about right here all used to be a part of Lake Saxon. Fifty years ago.

Mike Moore

So there is proof to that now.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

There is satellite imagery proof to that. There is that is correct.

Mike Moore

Because it was very questionable at one time. So

Unidentified speakerVoice A

it there is satellite imagery proof of such.

Kathryn Starkey

So um to Commissioner Weightman's point and what was going to be my question, can we make open space that's large enough for a fire truck to back out of?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Again, I would have to defer to engineering.

County Administrator

Well engineering is fine. Most of the septic sites, but those houses are all in septic and their tanks are all in the front yard. And so you're not going to want to drive.

Kathryn Starkey

Well, if we're condemning a house, we would be taking out their septic. So I'm saying where their house used to be, part of their yard, can you make a three-point turn easily?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

The the simple answer to that question, Commissioner, is yes. However, you gotta remember that these are being condemned and why are they being condemned because there's single activity on those properties. Do you want to build a cul-de-sac on a non single?

Kathryn Starkey

I don't want to build a cul-de-sac, I want to leave it grass.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Okay.

Kathryn Starkey

And then on the very rare time that we might need to turn a fire truck around.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

You would just back up. Yeah. My my only concern as putting putting on the hat as a public safety outcome is I'm backing a twenty ton fire engine over a potential sinkhole use proper topic. I that concerns me a little bit. Actually controls me a lot.

Mike Moore

Hm. Okay, so let's let's we need to run through these options then. Um because Lisp for needs to give some direction what they're going to bring to the community. Yeah. I mean it sounds like we I think we could take off

County Administrator

six options. We probably just give them

Kathryn Starkey

It's not a bridge.

Mike Moore

I think we can all agree. I think we've agreed already. Let me keep going guys. Restore the pristine can be. We're gonna are we gonna mark that one off? Yeah. Restore pristine. The twelve million dollar one. Yeah. All right. Connected Lakes Saxon is an option if they can prove that the water, like you said they could, is clean and there's something that's worked out, we don't put this extra burden on the community to maintain something they haven't had

County Administrator

to maintain. Five hundred thousand. So that's an option. That option the cost that option depends on what you do with the road. Do you call the sack it? Well that's where you're gonna have to go next.

Kathryn Starkey

It looks

County Administrator

like you have to put a couple

Mike Moore

together here. Yes,

Kathryn Starkey

that's an A and a B.

Mike Moore

Um does it seem like there's much support for a cul-de-sac, am I correct on that?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Cold de sac is gonna be an estimated cost of one point seven million dollars. If you took that and combined it with the previous one that you were just discussing, you're be and that is connected with With the cul-de-sac, you're looking at two point five million. Oh,

Mike Moore

two five?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, it's eight hundred thousand for the houses, right?

Mike Moore

Well that's the thing too, that some of these people may prefer to stay in their homes and property when their houses aren't condemned. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, think you've got to think about that too. Right.

Kathryn Starkey

But they have to decide if

Mike Moore

Well I understand, but at the same time you've got I you got people that have, you know, worked on their lives and built their lives to Save up and live on a lakefront property and it we're gonna go and I don't want to go in and force somebody to say, We're going to build a cul-de-sac because we think we should build a cul-de-sac and you're out of your house. It's not very fair.

County Administrator

I'm not yeah, I think what we would probably want to do on that one we need to refine that one better. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably what we at least refine better. Because there are different ways to do it that could work. Yeah. So we would want to refine that one.

Ron Oakley

Probably talk to those homeowners too.

County Administrator

They may want to get out of there.

Ron Oakley

No, I don't think so. Not for

Mike Moore

me and seem like a good option. So

Unidentified speakerVoice A

the one the one option that you don't have on your slides there is the sheet pile option, which was the eight hundred thousand dollar option. So if it pleases the chairman of the board, what I will bring back to you is a connection to Lake Saxon uh which would have the cul-de-sac option on it. Um install decorative fencing, that's gonna be a good one. have to be done no matter what at this point and then a sheet pile option. Is that please

County Administrator

not to community meeting and kind of get some

Mike Moore

feedback from the community.

You have the input commissioner Mariano?

Jack Mariano

Yeah. You know as as much as this has been a lake that's been filled in for this whole part we're we're in this situation. Yeah, recently we just had a hold in Beek of Woods. We're going to go pin the home. It's going to come forward. If you're gonna go build the cul-de-sac option. In let's say instead of you using asphalt, which I guess is what you're thinking, what if you did it but you kind of pinned it in a sense too, we've run metal through the whole thing, holding it and forming the foundation, would that bring that cost down?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I again I I would have to defer to Margaret on that.

Jack Mariano

And maybe and maybe talk to Fire Rescue a little bit more about what do they really need as far as if we're just trying to get this and that's all this call to sec it's all about just getting them to be able to back out and back it in or turning around. Let's really study what we really need to do and how we can make it work.

Mike Moore

Right. So the the only thing you gotta think about is is is fire rescue commissioner starting.

Kathryn Starkey

Um

Mike Moore

or in the SO

Kathryn Starkey

maybe one of the options is to um get to fortify a driveway and widen it on someone's property if they would let us I don't know. But um on the fence Um is there is it say you're gonna put a fence around it because the air edges are unstable or why are you putting a fence? Because there's not a fence around

Unidentified speakerVoice A

the lake. This now takes on a very similar look of a retention pond. And these these two homeowners are unresponsive and their insurance companies are unresponsive completely. It um I am not even a little bit. nine percent sure that they're gonna walk away from these homes and whatever levy we put on their property they're gonna be okay with for the rest of their life. So we basically end up uh we'll end up owning those two pieces of property. So there is some liability

on the county to ensure

County Administrator

that we protect it from the site. The sites will succeed the standard we would allow without attention or

Kathryn Starkey

do we Want so then do we wanna fix the side scopes? Because

Um uh I I I'm not a fence I'm not think we're I I'm not so always so crazy about the fences. If it's I think it

County Administrator

would depend on whether we connect it to the lake or whether we we don't. I think those options would drive whether or not we fix the side slopes and

Kathryn Starkey

swimming in these kind of limestone mines and um I I think if uh you fence it it's just gonna look it's just gonna look nasty and I don't know why you can't turn a lemon into lemonade and make this a something for the community, fishing or whatever, if the water's cleaner than the lake, I mean, what's the big issue?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

If it's your property and they don't have four to one slopes on this hole, then you have liability.

Kathryn Starkey

Yeah well why don't we put a four to one slope?

County Administrator

Well that again that we can look at that as part of the option.

Kathryn Starkey

Let's make it an asset instead of a ISOR for the community.

County Administrator

Yeah we don't want to be an ISOR but we

And chain

Kathryn Starkey

leak fence is not decorative, just in case you go there.

Why not? Make it apart.

Jack Mariano

And I think bottom line, the the great attribute of the whole area right now is they do have a C D D for the parks. I think commission involvement from the local commissioner, resident commissioner, getting with the people to find out what they do want to do with that piece of property would probably go a long way to kind of give us better direction where to

Mike Moore

go. And that's where yeah, you're right. That's where we're meeting with them and we totally break these. We had to wait obviously until and then Haven't returned and we could come to this workshop and go through some options before there's a

Unidentified speakerVoice A

beginning for the purpose of the conversation. I will say that I have met with the I went to a board meeting of the special district and presented uh at all of these options with the exception of sheet piling. Um, and their board president and their attorney were concerned about the fact that we may at some point in time turn this back over to them as a piece of property and they were they were posturing in the meeting to say no we do not want that.

Mike Moore

That's the concerns they brought up during the when we said to with flip and whom whomever else was in that meeting.

Kathryn Starkey

They don't want me.

Mike Moore

is the concern of added expenses for the residents.

Land Development Code

Uh right.

Mike Moore

I mean that's just possible. I understand. But again, I think again continuing the the discussions and and bringing these options to them and the entire community is what what needs to what needs to happen. Right. So you have some direction?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yes sir, I I will take those uh those options I'll present them to the community. We'll do that within about the next forty five days. I've still got two weeks left in Tallahassee that I'm gonna be leaving for after.

Mike Moore

But they started reimbursing this, yeah, for your time. Yes sir. They cannot

Kathryn Starkey

take you. They knew that when they followed you, right? Yes, that was

the purchase of these homes. Is that FEMA buying those? Uh so there's no it's just a little bit.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, that that would be that's gonna be a conversation of the next subject. on our agenda. But no there this is this was a one point three million dollar disaster for us and it had no FEMA funding whatsoever.

Mike Moore

No

Unidentified speakerVoice A

state funding, no FEMA funding.

Kathryn Starkey

And the insurance.

Mike Moore

So that goes to Commissioner O Commissioner Yeah Mr. Stein's letter. If you remember in our last meeting we did hire outside counsel to consent on contingency to look at grabbing some of those From the insurance company, Mr. Stockson. Well he's over here. At least we're gonna speak to it.

Kathryn Starkey

Okay, because he was gonna say something. I

Unidentified speakerVoice A

didn't want to make a correction, Jeff. Uh I'm sorry. Um I said one point three million, that's what we were estimating. We're actually s we have spent somewhere around eight hundred thousand, I believe. Right now on that overtaking.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

So we hired we hired with the board's uh consent to my engagement a lawyer that deals in sinkhole claims um on a contingency basis to evaluate and we're just in the evaluation stage right now of what sort of claims could be made against the homeowners and the insurance companies. But that

Kathy Pearson

It's ongoing.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

But it's on go. Okay, thank

you.

So I don't I really don't have more to report than that. Uh

Mike Moore

you hate to use the word homeowners, but the reality is the policies of them, so it's really the insurance fact. Uh anything else on that count? No sir. Okay. Next. All right. All right,

County Administrator

next.

Mike Moore

Thank you.