CONDITIONAL USE REQUEST (REGULAR) - Carol A. Roth - Operation of a Powerglide Launch and Landing Field in an A-C Agricultural District - Central Pasco County - at the Southeast Corner of the Intersection of McKendree Road and Tyndall Road Memorandum PDD19-CU03
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve with Conditions
DispositionApproved
Approved as part of the Public Hearing Consent Agenda.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Dec 13, 2018
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Dec 13, 2018
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 22m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 49% of 394 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Okay. And uh now uh we will present item PC six which is a conditional use and as you've correctly stated Mr. Chairman uh there's 30 minutes granted to Ms. Barbara Wilhite and there's fifteen minutes granted to I believe uh Ms. Ms. Hester on the item. Thank you.
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Good afternoon, Amy Heiler with Planning and Development. So item P six is going to be a conditional use in the name of Carol A. Roth. Uh the application is or the matter uh CU 1903 is for the operation of a power glide launch and landing field in an AC district. The site is currently located in central Pasco County at the southeast corner of the intersection of McKendry Drive and Tyndell Road.
As stated, conditional uses for a power glide launch and landing field in an AC district. It is located in the central market area. The site contains a single-family dwelling on approximately 19.51 acres. The applicant is requesting a conditional use in order to launch and land an ultralight vehicle, a motorized parachute device known as Power Glides on a portion of the subject property. The applicant does not propose any. Any runway or hangers. This is a visualization of the site access, which is off of
McKendry Road, a two-lane 50-foot wide county-maintained Lime Rock Roadway. The surrounding zoning is characterized by agricultural residential development and Category One wetlands and is required by LDC Section 805 to have a 25-foot upland wetland buffer around the Category One wetland.
The future land use or the subject area has a future land use classification of AG agriculture under the comprehensive plan. And this is their proposed site plan for the landing zone. The powered paragliders takeoff landings shall be limited to the portion of the overall property as shown on the site plan submitted with the app within this application. They will not encroach on the category one wetland and buffer.
It is also good to know that this site is currently within Connected City, which was approved or adopted in 2017. The subject site is located within the business core zone of Connected City and pursuant to section 136.3246 Florida statute. The intent of the character of the business core zone is to create a technology-driven business. Community characterized by high-density mixed uses, including multi-story residential and non-residential
densities. The surrounding property owners decide to opt into Connected Cities comprehensive plan. The existing land use of the Paraglide Launch and Landing Site may be incompatible with the intended business core zone and surrounding development with the intent of the Connected Cities comprehensive plan. With that being said, we approve with conditions of the proposed CU 1903. I would like to go over briefly with some of these conditions because they are applicable to the Connected City Corps.
So some of the conditions that are being proposed is we are limiting the use to ten years until build out. At that time they will require After approval, it is subject to expire within 10 years unless the applicant initiates in writing a request to the county to conduct an administrative review to expend to extend the expiration. The second condition is the owner and applicant must comply by the federal aviation administration
regulations and policies. Now, this one we are going to amend briefly just on what it says. What we're gonna state now is instead of um oh I pass it. Oops, sorry. Um so the owner and applicant must comply with uh applicable federal Aviation Administration, FAA regulations and policies. Four, and then we're going to add including ultralight vehicles as defined in the Federal Aviation Regulation Part 103 and enter any related
FAA advisory circulars. It is also an option to include Part 91, which is the general operations of aircraft. The third condition is going to be power paragliders' takeoffs and landings shall be limited to the portion of the overall property as shown in the site plan and will not encroach in the Category One wetland. Um the There shall be no lights on the takeoff landing area other than uh landing and takeoff ground lights that mark a safety zone. There shall be no powered paragliding
events where admit m admission is charged. There shall be no spectating by the general public on the property. Uh there shall be no training of the general public. No per head or per-use fee shall be charged for the takeoff landing area. And the use of the takeoff landing area shall be of private invitation only. Uh no signage shall be located on the subject property identifying it or adversely advertising it used as a takeoff landing area. Uh
power paraglider takeoff landings may only occur during the hours of 8 DM and dusk. And the conditional use does not restrict the property owner from using the property for any uses or activities permitted in the LDC AC zoning district and then abides by the normal regulation standards that we put for conditional uses. So we are attempting with the current development of the area, it is still predominantly rural, but since it is in
within connected cities, there is going to be a different density, different development over a period of time. So we're trying to acknowledge and work with the applicant to allow them to use a Paraglide now, but still be aware of the proposed development for Connected City in the future. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer. Okay. And we do have the Gina Hester and Barbara Wilheit.
Barbara represents the applicant? Yes. Yeah. Barbara you wanna do you have you wanna speak first? Do you wanna reserve time? Okay. Um does anybody have any questions for Amy? No? Okay.
Barbara Wilheite, 2523, Permit Place, New Port Richey Florida, 34655 for the applicant. Randy Crouch is going to actually do a walk-you-through power pair gliding, not something that we all experience every day. This sounds very formal, conditional use for a takeoff and landing field. It really is just a field, you'll see. We're just talking about being able to operate. Powered paragliders on this property. The staff has said that we needed to go through this process
for the applicant to to allow for the operation of power paragliders on our property. So that's where we're at. So let me have Brandy come up here and then we can answer any questions.
Right, back here.
Randy, if you just give us your name and address, please.
Randall Crouch, [address removed].
Thank you.
I'll let boy finish passing out. These are gonna be uh they direct mirror on what I'm gonna show in the PowerPoint just for guidance guidelines purposes. Alright.
Thank you. All right. The first slide it's up there is just basically your uh we're gonna call it your core field because that's what me and Carol named it, just to give a title to it, versus the field. Um is just showing uh the uh survey overlay. For your follow-along FY purposes. Next slide, please. Slide two is basically a Google map, a recent Google map shot of the property, and I've overlaid the borderline of what
we use as said Jacor Field. And that right there, those arrows, depict um the direction of launch if we had to launch towards the west. As you see that field that the roads are marked, uh McKendry and Tyndall for guidance purposes. And we have uh if I was mo if I was launching um to the west, the start point start for there is uh marked Next slide, please. That slot is also just mirrored
from the one previously just now. It's just overlaid now on the survey slide just for easier purposes following on. Again, launching to the west is directional. Now this is our first video right here, and this is going to show before you started. This is actually me doing this footage and I'm flying over um the property, over Jacorfield. I'm going to show um Uh I've I'm actually videoing another uh co-pilot that is actually taken off um going to the West from the Chor
field, just a demonstration of how it is. Please please.
As you can see right now I'm I'm facing northbound towards Steak Road 52.
Okay. All right. Not happy.
Okay.
Very
stable.
Okay. All right, so we'll just skip that. All right, the next slide number five. There we go. Is actually now reverse the pattern. If we was having to launch towards the east, there on the field we have marked the let the word start. There's those three starting points. If we had to launch with east or any kind of east component wind, that's the way we'd go. As you see as we approach the
end of the field towards the property line between uh Gina and Carol, we could actually peel to we usually the normal proceedings peel to the north or either bank to the right and we have applicable plenty of uh with that amount of real estate climb out to safely climb over for us and any kind of the property or trees or any vegetation. We're looking at about 200 feet at that when we do that left or right turn at that point. So it's not a hazard to anybody, including the pilot. Next slide. And that's
num also slide six just really puts that um launch pattern over the survey as previous slides just for easier follow-along. All right, slide seven or page seven is when we have to land. from the uh coming going landing towards the west coming from the east. Now you see our glide our glide path is over uh genus property as it comes in, but unfortunately the video is not going to show We have a follow-on video of exactly that pattern at
about 200, the general rule is about 100 to 200 feet up, right where that lines, that arrows begins, the far uh on the far right. We kill our motors and we come in for that as safety purposes. We don't want to if you're landing and say um say for example you have a you have two left feet you land in that day, the last thing you want and you fall is a spinning propeller cutting off your ankles or your Achilles heel. So the general practice is and we we do it every pilot, including myself and the others a couple that uses the field, kill
the motor about two hundred feet up and that creates a glide plane where it's totally silent And we come in and we launch landing at about where those arrows split off and walking it out to about the center of the field. That's our landing when we're coming in from the west. Next slide, please. And that really just again is just putting what I just spoke of the previous slide on the survey, just for easier guidance. Also, by putting these on this survey, I want to depict and point out that we're farther enough north of the wetland border that. um we're never uh nowhere
I I don't know the exact measurement, but it has to be at least fifty or seventy-five feet from that uh dotted line that symbolizes the I guess conservation of forest or wetland area. So we're definitely right closer to the house part of the property, not encroaching that area. Next slide please. This would be the video that I was talking about where um my colleague right there is killing the motor at that height, which is about hundred and fifty, two hundred feet up, where he is actually silent running. And he would come in That right there was looking towards east, and he
is really right over the southern part of uh Gina's property, um pretty much where the uh field ends, uh opens to the forest. But like I said, he's totally at about 150, 200 feet there, motor cutoff, and on a solid projectory path or landing at the middle of Jacora Field with no problems. Next slide. Page ten.
That right there would be a video. He's actually coming in, landing, he's coming in from the north, and it was he's coming over right there, he's coming over at uh Carroll's property, right over the pine large pine trees right there of Tyndall Road. And he would come in, come in straight and land about center of the field, coming in from the north, heading south. Next slide, please, page 11.
Oh, did we figure out how to play the Video? That'd be great.
Awesome. Any questions thus far that I can answer?
Yeah?
I think it's pretty clear. I have a question. Oh you have a question,
Chris? Yeah, go ahead. How far how long are you can a flight last or how far we
go? If we go up on a tank of gas, which a a typical tank is about two gallons, you can get about an hour of flight time per gallon. So you go up with a full two gallons, two hours of taking it easy flying. You know, you can get up there and you can do some more acrobatics or stuff, you can burn a few more, but conservatively speaking about two hours. Also, I'd like to point out why she while you're still doing that. I know one of the provisions was flying from eight a.m. to Dusk. Well we fall we follow under FAA rules for that flight for flight
times. Those are 30 minutes after uh the 30 minutes before the sun rises in the morning and 30 minutes after the sun. sets in the evening is our allowable flight times. So given the time of year with daylight savings or whatever, that could fluctuate. So we've all, you know, since we are are under far part one, FAR Part 103, point one, point one five, which you'll see in the slides of the last slides, seventeenth and eighteen, pages eighteen. You'll see that that's
our times we follow up under those guidance of the FAA, those time frames. So I would I would motion to not really fall on the eight a.m. because the reason why in the morning is really crucial to us to fly within the perimeters given to us in the FAA because we are very acceptable to turbulence and bad weather and when you we we get a good morning to fly, it's very calm and that's favorable for us to have an enjoyable flight. So that's why we we launch right at that usually that right in the mornings, right at that sunrise time.
Sure, yeah. So I realize the objector hasn't spoken yet, but I believe they live to the west of the site. They live east?
Uh Chikor the right Gina in that's in that picture right there, she's the property to the right to the far right. You see there's uh a building structure there with like a mint green roof that's I believe is a barn and her house resident is it it exactly to the right of that. And you can see there's a property line that that's went that goes down between Carol's and Gina's property by those sporadic Trees right there.
So my question for you is
Is there a reason you can't do all of your takeoffs and landings to the west?
In on the field?
Yeah, I mean you're showing both flight patterns east and west. And so my question to you is Knowing that you have an objector to the east, is there a reason you can't restrict your takeoff landings to only go west?
Correct. Uh we are s we are restricted to the wind direction, whether it be two miles an hour or ten miles an hour. So if there's a wind coming from say if there's any kind of wind coming from the west, we have to launch into that wind for safety purposes. I mean we're We're taking off running with our feet. We got a motor on our back, as crude as it sounds. So we're very you you any kind of wind out there you need to run into it. If you run in downwind with the or with the wind, you
it becomes a safety hazard because that parachute may not come from the ground. uh up in a in a safe manner. It may lag behind, you could then fall, or it could be entangled into the propeller which is trying to Which
way is the wind usually blowing in that area I don't
it it ver in the morning time usually you have a wind coming from the east and then in the evening time you usually have a sea breeze, which is the wind coming from the from the west northwest. So the way that field the way the field is right there, you see that box is kind of rectangled, elongated. Uh just so happens that's the way the winds typically are. Say if we had in the morning time you have a south if you have a wind coming from the east, then we would line up and take off neck near the McKendry Road side
because that's we want to launch into it's like any aircraft. You go into when you take off from the airport. Airports at and major airlines and big uh alpha jet I mean jets, they always land or take off into the wind and reverse it according to the weather pat wind pattern. We're no different. So we're a little bit more uh timid when it comes to even just a one mile an hour or two mile m mile per hour breeze because we're so light and we're well we don't got wheels, we got feet, and we're just a little bit more um delicate when it comes to wind.
So that's why the it changes on the s whatever side of the field we would go according to the weather.
And how many takeoffs and landings are you doing today? Typically.
That also depends on the weather like say for example this month. It's been some windy and cold weather. This month actually for the month let me use the month of November. For the month of November we may have had
three or four times the whole month flights. Because it was getting cold. sometimes the winds this time of year. But let's say let's take a typical summer time pattern where it's more uh the winds are lighter and the weather's a little bit more conducive for us. We may have um we may have say take the month of June. You may have five we may have six or seven launches in the month. Um and then maybe twice that depending on there's afternoon
thunderstorms. And unfortunately this region of the of Florida ha generates a lot of afternoon thunderstorms. So typically we find ourselves flying more in the morning in the summer than in the evening here due to that factor. So like I said, taking that into effect, weather plays a big role. I would say worst case scenario, or the the mini-type. Most cases we would have about seven or eight uh on a typical summer month launches. Um that could double if there's not a
lot of afternoon thunderstorms. And typically in the wintertime where you have a lot more cold fronts come through this area, colder, windier conditions, that just that grounds us. You can't you can't fly. You're just ground at cause of safety purposes. I would say three, maybe four, launches in a month in the winter months here.
Okay, thank you. That's for my questions.
Yeah. I have uh question. You indicated that I I believe you said the FAA dictates what time you can take off and land and those types of things. But in here one of the conditions, number eleven, that it uses, may only occur during a certain hour. So is there a conflict between what you're saying about what you can take off and one of the conditions in here?
Well, since we we fly under visual f uh visual flight rule only, BFR. We won't we don't have instruments or anything like that. So uh then we're subject to the daylight time. Because we don't have instruments, you can't fly at night. So and then that that time by FAA is extended till twilight hours because and that is only if you have a operational strode that is visible for two miles.
Okay, so then therefore you're not Disag in disagreement with condition number eleven here.
What with the eight A. M.
It's
eight AM to dusk.
Eight A. M. to dusk. Correct. I I would say if it you know, sometimes in the in the summer sunrises it's six forty five, six thirty. So we would be launching at six thirty when that sun rises.
Okay, well this condition would prohibit that, so
then if we had to wait till eight, it that could impose a safety risk on us.
So you're really asking sunrise to sunset.
Correct. And that's the guidance that's set we're just trying to s keep within the guidance of the FAA. We'd
probably need to ask staff why they used eight A. M. in sp instead of sunrise, because I don't know if they had a concern about the noise at that early hour of the day or that may have been why they used eight. I don't know though.
Amy Heiler. Uh the recommendations were actually proposed by the applicant. Uh Barbara sent them over and we reviewed them and we explained. Because
the applicant proposed date. Yes.
Those were the recommended conditions were proposed by the applicant.
Well let me just ask you, how loud are are these devices?
No more than your average uh weed eater or lawnmower. Because basically the motor that we have is is is such. Um it's a two it's a two-stroke, usually 172 horsepower, uh 72 horse uh CC 25 horsepower motor. And in in all essence, if you had to compare it to that, that would be the closest comparison. Uh if we had the video I'd have a obviously demonstration of to answer your question, if it was it ain't gonna happen. Okay. So anyway,
but I mean to answer to answer Mr. Hansel's question, I mean the plan these conditions can be more restrictive than FAA regulations. Yeah. So but it would really be up to the Planning Commission to decide whether at that noise level you're okay with it be occurring at six at that hour of the day. And that you probably need to hear from the opposition before you now
I agree with you on that in in in in in putting the shoe on the other foot and that would be I would fall within the compliance of any kind of noise ordinance of the county. And I know that happens uh I think I looked it up Monday through Saturday uh seven AM to ten PM or something of that nature. Obviously we wouldn't go into the latter part of it because that's clearly in the nightfall. But if if it was something that we had to abide by a county noise ordinance, I completely concur with that.
Wait, let me go to one question then because we're we're talking about the noise here and I think that's the reason that the eight a.m. was there, uh I I assume. I but if you go to number eight, it which is the condition. Uh
How many people? It says basically there's no fee involved for charging people to to take off and like how many people would be taking off on your property, let's say between the hours of say seven and ten. AM.
I would say one to two. Okay. On average. Okay. One to two. There may be maybe once every couple months. You we might have three or four, but that's very rare. So
the maximum would be four at between the hours to say seven and well all the time.
And that's a stretch. If it maximum would be four, that would be a stretch. Typically it's two one to two people.
Yeah. I've had these things fly over my property before. Uh not from your area, I don't know from where and they're pretty quiet. I think y'all are crazy as heck, but I mean you know they're pretty quiet actually.
And they're getting quiet.
hearing from hearing loss, but still you got that muffler and the engine right behind our heads. So the they're they're tipp they're continuously updating the advancement of so silence in these motors. So uh And then we we're in the the whole group of guys that we fly in the county area, we definitely comply. We want to we enjoy the sport, want to maintain that uh good picture in the public's eye. So we're not trying to get down and kick people's shingles off their head roofs or anything like that. We maintain a respectable height and and and complying with doors
and that's why most of the groups and I speak in for my group would comply on a noiseful ordinance if you know if we want to add to that, you know, beyond the FAA rule for us, uh a noise ordinance not to exceed the the county ordinance that's kind of
standing. Well staff could just look up while we have the speakers what it When our noise ordinance says you have to have It changes decibel levels at a certain time in the morning, but I don't remember what that so if you all could look that up while speakers are speaking so we can address that.
Okay. Mm-hmm.
I'll continue on if if we continue on. Okay. I think we left off in uh slide page eleven, yes. But uh okay, that's our landing towards um heading towards the west, coming in from uh going towards the east, heading from the west. The next slide, page twelve, is that same one just showing over the survey um picture. And then that also unfortunately it's chill with video of A pilot coming in from
the south, um following basically Tyndall Road, uh not Tyndall Road, uh McKendry Road, and making a landing in the center of the field. But no video, unfortunately. Uh power off, silence. Basically, in this video, really depicts a shame we can't play it. The only thing you hear is the wind going through his sails landing. It's that quiet. You know, we like I said, the safety purpose. that's measured and continuously practiced in our group, everybody that I fly with is 200 feet up, power goes off, and you come in as a glide. Safety. You don't want to
because if you trip and fall, you don't want that prop being spinning and coming down you. It's it's it'd be bad news. Next slide please and at page fifteen. Basically this is now this is just a still picture. This is actually a shot, it's at the intersection of Tyndall and McKendry, and I wanted to s uh point out in this shot that the lack of livestock. activity that's on the property of of uh Miss uh uh uh Gina. The only thing you can
see and I'll tell you you can't really make it out but towards the top of that slide there's a a little tan dot and a brown dot. That's two horses right there. Other than that, there was nothing else and this is on the nor this is the norm that we see. Very lack of any kind of livestock, any kind of disturbances. And then one video, it's a shame doesn't pay, actually I made a video of this too. I was flying along Tyndall at about the same height, which is about 150, 200 feet up. Going a long tendo. And I went completely
past and where you see those two horses there, they remained grazing. And did not move while I was continuous on it, swear the videos there. As a matter of fact, you got it it I got the thumb drive if anyone wasn't gonna keep it after to review it on something that's at more um compliant with the format, you would see the video it speaks for itself. More than happy to, you know, keep that and use it. Uh also, next slide please, page sixteen.
This is a picture Um that ain't what I got. I see if as a picture two it's should keep going. Okay, picture two, that's it. Uh this is actually a picture of totally uh genus property. I wanted to depict in this photo shot lack of livestock. There's nothing out there. And that's the way it usually is. And this is in prime times where we actually do our flying. I'm not sure if this was the morning or evening, but I i i
they're just not there. Uh maybe they're there out where we're not flying. But that's what we see on a normal basis, lack of lap stop. Next slide please, page 17. This is actually for uh the reference of the uh Commission, the only parts out of the far part 103 that applicable to powered paragliders, us, part one and part one five. And we're falling apart primarily all these are are are are uh appable points,
but I'd like to point out the one, it's number one after the letter E. under weight less than two hundred and fifty four pounds empty weight. Well our our typical motorizer or our power unit on our back is typically weighs about fifty five, sixty pounds full of fuel. And that's about it. So w you know, that's how we fall. I mean, if if anybody, if any human goes up into the air by some kind of means, We have the FAA has to bring us into some sort of regulation and this is what applies
to us. Also in this part right here, the part 103.15, it says no person may operate an ultralight vehicle, which we're considered on as that, as part one dis um dictates, over any congested area of city, town, settlement, or any open air assembly of people. Now, also there's a link for your reference if you wanted to expand that. I've applied down there. Going forward on that, please go to page 18. Next slide, please. This right here
is an aeronautical chart published by the FAA regularly. So what stays currently up to date. What I want to point out on this slide is page 33 of the of the link there on top. This is what FAA defines as a congested or populated area. It's defined as a as a section. borderline and filled in by yellow. Next slide please. Now, this is the current FA as dated 16 August 2018 to January, all the
way going to January 2019. This is the aeronautic chart published by the FAA for the Tampa and the region where we fly in. Now the the chart on the left shows the Tampa region. You see all those sections in yellow. That is considered by the FAA congested and populated area. Now go to the the the section or the the the clipping that I have on the right And you see that little red box up there that I've kind of caught? That is the Chakor field. That's where we fly right there. And you can
mark that by looking at the San Antonio. That's so and then that blue line that goes horizontal, that's state road fifty-two. And you see in that uh on lawn 52 you see that's pilot country, just using some references to show you that it is Saint Route 52. But anyway, getting back to that red box, that's where we fly at. As you can see, there is no by definition of FAA uh congested or populated areas that we fly over. That be being said, um you know, we
have the right in in the vehicles we fly to fly, you know, right off the five feet off the ground if we want to. course using good principle and judgment, you know, without causing harm to people or property. But I just wanted to mark that we are not considered in a in a congested area by these by the by consideration of the FAA. And I believe that is all. If we never got the videos up. No, unfortunately. Is there any further
questions? I think part of the question is Chris.
How f how far can you get in a flight?
Well, it also depends on the weather. If you're going with let's say no wing conditions and you're got a full tank of gas, so you can roughly get about two hours of flight time. Um the typical wing that things canopy, some people say that's a parachute, we call it a wing because it provides lift. generally gives you about 25 to 35 miles per hour. So you need to do the math, twenty five, thirty five miles an hour, straight line distance over a two hour period, mm covers some distance. But wherever you're going typically
you gotta come back. So take an account.
You do have to file a flight plan with these or anything?
No, you do not, sir, because uh as as stated in the FA, we are under the weight limit of two hundred and fifty-four pounds. By that saying we do not have to register or have an N number on our aircraft because we are not considered considered a uh certified aircraft. Okay.
All right. Anything else from anybody here? Okay. Uh Erica, how much time do we use? Harmy? Okay. Very good. Thank you. Um so if there's nobody else to speak.
Barbara, do you have any other comments from our team there?
I'd just like to add one thing before I dismiss. Um the the basic function of us getting and uh using this property is we've become a very good friend of Carol. And with her love of aviation and her previous years in the in the Navy and mine being in the Army and other members being military and the love of aviation, she's actually opened up her property and she likes just Watching it, we like being with her and spending time with her and her property. And in all in all lamest terms, it's
just a bunch of guys that get together and and like to talk, sit around and have coffee afterwards, or breakfast afterwards, or before and that's all we it's just a fun sport to do. It's no there's no get-rich skiing through it, or any kind of training, or any kind of other than just a gump bunch of few guys. getting together and meeting and and collaborating with somebody that has love and passion of aviation with the sport with us. And it just so happens that person has property that we can actually use and enjoy. And launch from and
we usually launch from the property. We get up, I have a saying, get up and get out. We get up and we go wherever we're going to. We go away. We go miles away. Because it just really isn't fun launching and just going around in circles in a spot. So that's no fun. So we usually launch and it usually takes us a few minutes to launch. And once we're up, we're gone. And we won't come back until an hour, hour and a half, two hours later. And usually when we're coming in you don't even know we're coming in because we're motor out. So that's about it. That's
all I can think about to add to that.
Okay. Anything else then? All right, I appreciate your presentation. Thank you very much. And uh would you like to come up and speak, Gina?
State your name and address and
Gina Hester, [address removed]. My video's working.
And I think do you have a video?
I have three videos.
No, I got another distro with me.
Well.
Erica, she has fifteen minutes.
Okay. Just pause it.
And I'll tell you when you play. Um so you know that my property is on the east side of hers. We've already established that there's wetlands. On the west side, they have a lot of power lines, which is why I believe they use my property to ascend and descend. Um I want to play this video that she just had up.
The night video. This is a typical night of them coming over my property. They're telling Right? Yeah, go ahead, Sarant. This is the two of 'em. Now as you can see that little box over there is one of my um shelters. And he's coming in. And you can kinda hear how loud they are, and they're coming over my property.
Now what I've my researched is the navigable space in which the public has a right to transit without affecting a landowner's property rights has been set at the height of 500 feet in urban or suburban areas. And three hundred and fifty feet above the surface, or tallest structure in rural areas. Now this is the typical of how they're coming in my property. Not only Do they not turn their motors off?
What happened?
He went up back around again and he put put ascended his motor again louder, came around and came back down with the motor on really loud. See they do not shut off their motors, what he's saying.
Get it going.
Do you want a different disc?
Okay.
We won't count this against our time.
We will count this.
It's not my it's not my problem.
Is there a way to turn up the volume at all?
Now I'm in my house at this time to give you a distance for when they're coming in.
So the first guy lands.
Looks like his motor's off.
And that's all my property to the left.
His motor is on.
He turns it off, then he turns it back on again.
That's my property.
This video's a little bit long, but the other ones are shorter.
But I wanna show you here how low. What's the video died again?
Do you another is another one of those videos show the same thing or no?
Yeah, I do. But the on the rest of the video I want to show how low they're coming over my property to actually land on Carol's property, which is one of my big issues.
Maybe you can fast yeah, try to fast forward it.
Let's go around again.
What time is that?
Hmm.
What time of the day is that?
What time?
Um I would say about eight o'clock at night.
The dates up there, but it doesn't have the time. So this is kind of a typical landing over my property.
If you could get the next video ready it has the horses. So So they've already read the hazardous one oh three operations, but it said this section prohibits an ultralight operation from engaging in activity which jeopardizes the safety and of persons or property in the ground or the air.
Yeah, scared horses. So This is why most of my horses aren't out in the pasture when they're flying. Here's one of their ultralights coming over my property right here. And if you look as he comes around, look down and you'll see my horses. They say they don't see most of my horses out in the pasture, that's because I've had to keep them in the barn or keep them in the top right pasture because my pastures, as you saw in the video, goes all the way along and down here. And they've been so scared and
I don't want them if if you know anything about wild mustangs, they take um helicopters and they chase the wild Mustangs till they get exhausted and then they corral 'em. Well, these horses don't have that space. They'll just run into the fence. And I think he even flew over the wetlands when he was landing on that video. So now I've had my my pastures being restricted Because Of them flying over my property. So he says he doesn't see a lot of horses. The
horses are in during the day and out at night in the summertime. Nope, that was the same video.
Um if you can just get ready but don't hit the next one we'll say
Um
Sorry, I just had surgery in my eyes.
Um
So basically, I got to the point where I had to shut down four of my five pastures because the horses were so scared that when I let them out at night, I had to light them out right before when they got done flying, or right before they so they'd stay back to the house, so they'd have to run over. They'd be next to the gate in front of the house. So the pasture goes all the way down. The horses would stand right here until after they land because they were so scared. Now I've had this random. Yeah. I built this place myself and this is what I've dreamt of my whole life is to
have a nice quiet peaceful place for my animals to take care of them. They're my love and that's my whole world. Now the powered parachute, some of them actually have big wheels that lay down. They're extremely loud too.
And they came by the other day Um Loss of income, yes, I board horses since two thousand three. I have a county license. I've been approved by the county and I can't take any more horses in because they deem my property unsafe for the horses. So do I have a lot of horses out there right now? No, not as many as I could because I can't Bring them in because people are scared because this is what's happening.
You have a letter to that effect?
Huh?
You have a letter to that effect?
No I don't. I don't have anything with me.
Do you have do you you have something in writing? No. Who deemed it unsafe?
I deem it I deem it unsafe.
Well you said they.
Oh well th the people that want to board with me, they come out and say no, this isn't safe. Because because horses are fight and flight animals. They have eyes on the side of their head. They see something coming above them, they just bolt and I can't take that liability, they don't want that liability. Yeah. Um, go ahead and play that next video.
This this
Why
does it make it to say? Okay. So I'm on my back a back of my house when this this man flies back He comes really close, you could see, to my house.
He comes around the front of my house.
You can see like the corner of my house.
To the front. Get around the corner.
And you'll see when he comes over, now my property to the f the fence where the power line is about thirty feet. He just makes it over the power. The power line. You see my ridge line and my house, and you'll see on the left, you'll see the red barn. And that little thing that's sticking up you see above that that's for my goats to play in. That pasture he's flying to right now is actually my riding area and then you can see the top of Carol's um top of the roof of her house.
And so I can't ride in it because they're flying over it, but they're dangerously close. One time they actually flew up my pasture, almost hit my tree, I heard the guy screaming, takes a left and just hits just went over my barn. So the FAA says ninety one point one three careless and reckless operation, aircraft operation for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so to endanger the life or property of others, which is I think I showed you in that video.
Um I have contacted the FAA and Carol w Carol um talked to Bill Edwards and Bill Edwards told me that she would not give the guy the men's information to them. and um that they were a club. And I'm just quoting what Bill Edwards says here. The liability that I have, not just for my horses, but my structures, my property, that I've worked so hard, I feel is in danger every day that they fly. That's my opinion because I don't want to pick
people out of my out of trees or power lines. Um Has it taken away my quiet use? Absolutely. Um my in my quiet use and enjoyment of my property with these guys flying by at seven o'clock every Saturday morning or every or Monday through Friday, Sunday, I don't get to sleep in, I have these things flying over my head. They're they are louder than people think. I can't ride. I the whole property which they show that that It's my writing area. I
have a trail around the property and in the woods and around the property which I can't use anymore because they scare the horses. The property that they they showed you was right-butted up against my property. I mean it's literally ten feet from my property that these guys are flying over my fence and landing. It's only about a ten foot. So um And then one of the guys he comes back, he'll come to Carol's property and he'll sit there and he goes around and Carol's property to my property from her house is maybe fifty feet
and he sits there and he goes around and he dive bombs around it, which I don't feel as safe at all. And uh let's see. One um he was one time they were moving the dirt back into the wetlands to give 'em, I guess, more more land, and all of a sudden I had Um A model airplane flying over my head. I guess he was you know trying to bother me. And then on the third of February of this year. I was in my goat pen with a friend. I had
a drone over my head, hovering over my head. I was sick of the harassment from these guys that I've had to put up with for a year and a half since I started fighting this. So I had to put 22 panels, a board-on-board fence where the Carol's health actually sits to try to get some privacy from them.
Um Carol's actually called the county on the Manicity Corner across from her because she accused him of he had a he had a big huge garage at the time of of having a Running a construction company 'cause she didn't want big trucks driving by her house, but she doesn't care if a powered parachute flies over her house, I guess. Now opposed down the street, there's a there's a there's a helipad down the street, and this guy's been flying for years, and a helicopter goes straight up and down. Helicopter does not come Sideways over
other people's property goes straight up and down. That man's property is Also goes out to to W he has like fifty some acres. I don't know if he still owns it now, but it goes out to McKindry, it goes to Overpass, it comes down Elam. Plus there was a lot of acreage on the east side. If you got a new map today, there is one person there. But that one person who bought that land chose to live next to Helopad. I don't choose to live next to a powered parachute. Field. There's
also another ultralight field in Zephyrhills. So this would make two in Zephyrhills because I think I'm still considered unincorporated Zephyrhills. Um
They've they have had, like you said, they've had times where they had um other men over there. One time they've had up to five men flying out of there at one time. Which I don't believe five people can fit in that field and fly out at the same time and that's what they do. They all fly out at the same time. So my video today is show showed you that they are using my property. They are allowed over my property. And um
That I don't believe this is a proper spot for this field to be in. Um
I don't know if they can actually do this without flying over my property because they have such restrictions in the back wetlands and they have the power lines on the other and like he said with the wind there are times he has to use my property. I don't want my property used. At all.
I want them to comply with the FAA rules, but I feel like I have a lot of liability. um right now with the way that they flying as you see in this video over my property. And that's what I oh, one more thing is I I also feel that if this gets approved, it will drop my property value because to to have a horse ranch next to this, no matter if it's me or somebody else, I think my property value will greatly drop. That
I could never sell it for what it's worth. So whether I have two horses, ten horses, or somebody wants to bring in cows, I still think that these machines starting at seven o'clock in the morning, flying over the heads of livestock, is dangerous. Now if they're up to the flight, up to the, you know, where they're the where they fly from their tops their top height, that's one thing. But I'm talking about ascending and descending height next to my property. That's what I have for you today.
Right. Uh before you step away, are there any questions from upgrade?
So how long has the operation been how long have they been in operation?
Um since May of last year
Did you file a
complaint
with
the
county?
I did.
That's how this originated? Yes,
I did.
And so I guess I'll ask that I didn't see any reference to a complaint. Was it what happened
So I contacted code, uh Amy Hiler, I contacted code enforcement. They did not have one on file for this property.
But the person I talked to, his name was Dave from the county, I have his number, he was the code inspector. I don't know how I got lost, but I was the original person who filed the complaint.
It was April or May of last year.
Is that what triggered the applicant coming in for conditional use? I mean I uh normally we don't get conditional uses coming in after the facts unless there was a complaint filed. So that's what I'm trying to figure out how we how we got this.
So initially the application did come in under the um stating that there was a violation, but I contacted code enforcement to get that document. And they said that there was nothing filed for this. So
Okay.
So in your opinion, how many flights are there a week?
Um probably about Um it could be anywhere between around eight. It depends, like you said, at the time of the year. I think in the summer they fly a lot more. They fly almost every day because you know the weather's you know, depending on the weather. And they're gonna fly in the morning because at night's probably the storm, you know, usually storm around four o'clock in the afternoon. But they do st they start their engines exactly at seven o'clock, they'll start up. So because they're going with the noise ordinance. Now I don't
Time wise I'm just telling you when they fly. And I have a lot of video of the actual time that they flew and it was around between seven and seven thirty.
Could I ask one more question? Sure. So you said you filed a complaint with FAA or you
Oh no, I called and made a complaint to FAA. They called Carol. And um Carol would not give um Bill Edwards and I have his email and phone number um would not give them the guy who's flying their f their information so he could talk to them and ask them, you know, just talk to them or have the FAR out.
Okay, well I'm not understanding why that stops FAA from investigating your complaint.
I asked him the same thing too. I
said,
You are the FAA, why don't you just go out there? And he says, Well, I have to comply with I can't just walk on their property without, you know, you know, it's I still would get a trespassing charge just like you would.
Well, but he can go to your property. I mean why why didn't you call the FAA out to your property for
Well, I asked him he could come to my property, could come to her property, and he didn't want to come out. I've I've done my due diligence. I can't help it if somebody doesn't want to do their job.
Okay. Do you have a written response from them?
I probably have it in a email but like I said it was a year and a half ago.
So I just want to be clear with you, I mean this body is gonna decide whether this conditional use is appropriate for this property, but the county does not enforce FAA regulations. You cited a number of FAA regulations that you believe they're in violation of, but we Oh I understand. We have no ability to enforce those regulations.
I understand that. I just I just don't want them um I wanna show you how they are flying over my property and I don't want them on my property.
Okay.
And how dangerous they are flying over my property. That's why I don't want this because I don't want them over my property.
Any other questions from up here?
Yeah, I had a you indicated that you bought horses on your property, correct? Yes. And you have a permit or some type of permit to to do that. How many horses are you allowed to permit on your property?
Um it's three per acre.
Okay, help me do the math on that then.
I don't know
how many.
Okay.
I've I've had up to eleven horses.
Okay. And currently how many do you have now?
I just have three now. Or actually I have two. One just passed away.
So you have a loss of income based on the noise effect.
I can't I can't bring any more borders in because everybody sees the property and sees these flyers and sees the field and they they they're scared to have their horses there and the liability for me is great too.
But it's on you don't have any documentation to that effect though, do you?
Nothing. I mean, they just come out and they talk to me and they see the property and they leave and they tell me that they just don't feel it's safe.
You also mentioned the word Mustang horses. Do you have Mustang horses on your property?
I used to have a Mustang, I don't know. I was just giving an example that the way that they herd Mustangs is, you know, that I'm just saying that horses are scared of things flying above their heads.
Okay, I was just trying to evaluate the example.
I was just trying to give an example.
Yeah, okay. Okay. That's the only question I have was Okay. Chris?
Anything? Kevin?
Gina, do do you um do you agree or disagree with the flight pattern exhibits that they showed in their presentation? I mean are they operating differently than they presented in their presentation?
I showed you that. I think I showed that on the video. They're not, they're using my property.
Yeah, it's hard. I mean obviously in the videos it's hard to see property lines, but that's why I was asking the question.
Yeah, everything you saw in the video was my property because I was standing in the back of my house. So if you saw his shot of where my house is and where the barns are, I'm just literally in the back of my house and I'm shooting out over my pastures. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Nothing else? All right. Thank you very much.
All right, Barbara.
So Barbara, before you start I have a Legal question for you and your client. So explain to me why it's not a trespass to fly over somebody's property.
Because it's not a trespass.
Well but that's not the end I mean what does the air does the Does the right to someone's land not go into the air? I mean that that
Right, that's my understanding is that and the and what she's talked about five hundred feet and three hundred feet, those regulations don't my understanding is they do not apply to to the power of paraglotting that they're doing. So they're not using her property. If if they were, she'd have a private claim against them. But sh they're not using her property. It's They don't take off on her property, they don't land on her property, do they go over her property? They explain that yes they do.
So it's your legal opinion that that's not a trespass? That's what I'm asking you.
I have not formed a legal opinion.
Well I think I mean from my perspective
But she has a pr th if that is the case she has a private remedy.
Wait a minute. From my perspective it seems to me that that would be a problem for any aircraft that would fly over any property.
Well that's why I'm asking the question. Obviously And I I admit I don't know the law on when a flight over someone's property becomes a trespass. I don't know what the if it's the 300 feet or the 500 feet, I don't know at what point.
Something becomes a trespass when you're over someone's property. That that's really I'm a I don't know the answer. I'm asking the question.
I don't know the answer either.
Okay. Well f from what I don't I'm not positive, but I have flown a lot, so I think for a regular aircraft, you're not supposed to go before go below five hundred feet. Now, I that may not be the case for an ultralight. I suspect it's not the case. Right,
a power paraglizer. Does your client
know the answer to this question? About when qu what height you have to be above?
They can explain the the regulations as it applies to their use much better than I can. Okay, let's 'cause they're having to comply with
them. Please state your name again.
Randall Crouch. Uh you assert right, hit the nail on the uh with on the head, sir. Um with with in regards to those yellow forms with the unincorporated incorporated, and we're under the 254-pound dry rule, we're not certified aircraft being in and flying in an unincorporated unpopulated area that five that 500 rule uh altitude rule does not apply to us. So like I say we can fly at five feet off the ground but still be in following the law of not causing harm to
or damage to personal property. So person
or property. So you could be as close as a foot off the ground on her property. I just want to be clear because I want to understand That's correct. You can be as as close as a foot off the ground on her property as long as you're not interf touching any of her property. As
long as I'm not physically making contact.
The FA does not consider that as you invading her property. Correct.
Uh with flying in regards to flying power paraglottises we do.
Okay. Okay.
Yes. I'd like to also reiterate that we have or never have been a club. Like I said earlier, it's just a you know a few friends getting together and flying. Uh as seen in her videos, and I believe you guys called attention to it, as coming down when we're crossing over and to uh even own her property, engines were turned off. That one time that I was had to come around again is because my partner, uh my uh fellow co-flight partner right there, he landed first. I
didn't want, as for safety purposes, he was in the middle of my target. So I went around again. I was within safe perimeters. I had a strobe light working in the FA rules and the twilight conditions. I went around again, not over house, stayed in the woods, over that uh safe altitude, and when you saw me come, Coming in, killed my mother, and I came in. Also, uh other videos uh that also show other pilots killing their motors and coming in being respectful. That's how you do when you land. You kill the motor. So um everybody's fall you know falling
in compliance. Nobody's uh coming in and touching her her property, either it be a tree or a fence or anything. And also I like to point out that There is some of the noises and she's talking about drones and airplanes Right on the other side of her property, her the Tyndall Street, is a very active seven days a week RC model airplane club that flies all kinds of RC planes. They're called Can M Flyers. You go on Google Maps and they pop up because they are an established business
club or uh radio control club and they are going every day with pylon with these screaming air racing planes. They're called pylon racers. And it's these little bitty planes that go like 150 miles an hour, and they are screaming. And they do that every day, especially on the weekends. So and then on top of that, that's a dirt road. You got kids going up and down with ATVs and motorbikes. I mean these things are factors that are way exceed the s uh noise and actually nuisance limit in my opinion than what we do, given the fact when we launch, we're gone. She shows us
coming back. Now if she showed evidence of a picture or video of just constantly just circle and circle and circle, then I would say yes, you got something. And it it doesn't it she don't get it because it doesn't happen. I I I just I can't explain any more. We just are not living up to or practicing our flight patterns as she states. Uh I do have uh some other uh fellow pilots that would give a test that actually use the property that would like to speak. Scott, did you wanna hear?
Use your time as you wish.
How much time are we at, Erica?
Come on.
That's that's in addition to the original sixteen?
Yeah, you don't count when we ask questions, right?
Okay.
All right.
Good afternoon. My name is Scott Carbone. I reside at [address removed]. Uh I am a fellow pilot along with with Randy. Um Just to give you an overview what we're talking about because I can see the bewildered look on your faces of what we do. It's basically a motor that is strapped on our backs and we have a wing. We start it, we warm up the two-stroke motor. We run into the wind approximately
twenty feet and within twenty to forty feet we're already in the air. Now, I've only flown at this particular field a handful of times, and the reason being is because there's an obvious issue between Carol and I I don't know her name but the neighbor. So out of respect for Carol, we don't fly this property. Seven days a week. eight flights a day. We we just don't do that. Not just because of the weather permitting, um and
we all work. It's more to give Peace. Now Carroll's allowing us to use this land just to take off and as Randy said before We take off and we go. We're only in that area for takeoff and landings. The video that you seen was what it was a flight pattern because if you're a pilot you know you have to do a pattern and it's all about safety. We purposely do not fly over the
What this person's house. We we all know the rules. Stay away from this person's home. Um We don't fly dangerously. We get up and we go and our normal altitude is about a thousand feet. And there are other not clubs but other pilots that live in the remote area that fly as well. So I just wanna make you know, establish that that w we are aware uh that it is a nuisance or it could be a nuisance, so we purposely stay away
from uh this woman's property and livestock. And I I'm personally I have never seen any livestock at her home or Horses, cattle, or whatnot. And that's another thing that we do is we respect people with livestock. We don't want to give ourselves a bad name or cause a situation we're in right now. So if there's any other questions I'll be happy to answer them about what we do and what the motor is and how loud it is. It it's a two stroke
motor, gentlemen. Okay.
Okay.
Any
questions? No. Okay.
Good afternoon. My name is Kim Britt. I live at [address removed]. I am Carol's daughter. And how this all even came about. These are my friends, you know, and we all go up to my mom's, we hang out Regardless, we may not even be flying. We may not even be up in the air. We're hanging with my mom. I think the one time we had five people was my mom's 75th birthday. You know, that was the most people we
had at one time. But these are my friends. It's my mom's house. It's gonna be my house, it's gonna be my daughter's house.
Mm-hmm.
So that's what I'm here to tell ya.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Come.
Okay, you're gonna have to give the dog's name. That's
Zeva, my Hungarian German Shepherd.
I just eat it.
And my lifeline.
I'm
Carol Roth. Some of you may know me. I have three things to say. One In the past I've watched Gina's pattern of horse ownership. And during the summer she puts her horses out at night. And keeps them in the barn during the day. Not because of me or anybody else. 'Cause it's hot. That's been her pattern of ownership. Two. I don't know how she can know what I spoke to mister Edwards about. She wasn't
on the extension. He did call me. Do you believe everyone that calls you says who they are and you're going to give information out to a stranger on the phone? How do I know who he is? He could be her brother. I don't know who he is. Right. So I told him if he had any questions, he could send it to me in writing and I gave him my address. I never refused to speak to him because
I was uncooperative. I was just being smart. not to talk to a stranger and give any information over a phone. And the third thing is really.
Besides being my friend, I love them. They come to my home. When we had my 75th birthday, it was also Randy's X amount of years. You're twenty-five, right. Right. Birthday the day before. We had forty-five people out there. There were parents, grandparents, little babies, children. There were four flyers. I think five came, but he decided
not to take off. And that's the use of my property. And I got a call from the county accusing me of having a fly-in because Ms. Hester called and complained. I had a birthday party, not a fly-in. As far as landing four wheels on my property, which they fly over sometimes to wave and say hello, they can't land on my property. I don't have enough acres, they would get hurt. So
she doesn't have a film of that because it never happened. And I'm sure you she'd be out there trying to film it. This is what I've lived with for 15 years. She's been uncooperative and nasty. She put a fence up on my property that it didn't belong there. I tore it down.
This is exactly what she does. She complains about everyone. I have never complained, and if she thinks I have, let her ask me to my face, let her come and talk to me. But she's good at climbing fences. That's why I had a call about trespassing.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions?
Okay. Barbara, you wanna wrap it up?
Yes. Thank you. All I would add is that from my understanding and and they can explain it better but what what I've looked at with the FA jurisdiction, that jurisdiction is to make sure that they're staying within the requirements that the 254 pounds to make sure that they're not flying something that's is regulated. So that's yeah the whole who's what level and who's flying where and that's not what they're looking at. So um The
other thing, just put this in perspective, this is an ag area, agricultural land use, agricultural zoning. All the activities people shoot on their property, people ride ATVs, motorcycles, we're having to go through this process to come here to you to get a conditional use, to use a pro a uh a twenty-acre piece of property to have their friends fly in and out. Um You know, you've heard the testimony about there's already an airfield with the private with the little airplanes in this area. So that's just a pattern
of how people use their agricultural property.
We're available if you have any other questions.
Are there any questions from the nice?
So just to clarify the earlier question that was asked about the noise regulations, there's actually an exception in our noise ordinance for ordinary noise from aircraft. So as a general rule, aircraft are not subject to our noise regulations. That being said, if the Planning Commission wanted to place a condition that this operation comply with our noise regulations, I think you have the power
to do that, but you'd have to specify what decibel level, what hours of day, things like that to Because the noise ordinance doesn't on its face cover this type of operation. So you would have to be very specific about you can't just say they gotta comply with the noise ordinance. Right. We'd have to be very specific about where the noise would be measured from, the decibel level, time of day, things like that.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Would they be willing to limit uh it doesn't look like the conditions limit the number of flyers at one time. I mean it does there is a condition in there use of tan take off and landing shall be by private invitation only, but I mean quite frankly you could invite the county out there. I mean Okay,
I can ask
you. I don't think you'd want to do that, but
Okay. And then you heard the the correction to my eight AM why why they would like I think normally the noise ordinance, I think David, one of your questions was when does it start and stop or change decibels at seven. So um if you wanted a A rule, you know, instead of eight it would be seven. So they're just correcting that error in my eight eight o'clock.
But that's really a bigger question about do you want to regulate noise as part of this operation? I mean is that
And you're talking about regulating the number of flights. Yeah. Correct. Okay. Um well do you want to make a motion?
Yeah, I mean it this obviously uh shouldn't be as hard as it is, but I mean we we don't we don't tell people when they can mow their yards and that's essentially what we're talking about is a longmore engine. Um I mean you're in an ag area, you're in ag land. I mean people can use their tractor whenever they want. I mean Usually people use common courtesy. Um I think really all I can sit up here and ask is is it when you guys are up there flying, if if this does get approved that use common courtesy, don't put yourself in danger, don't I mean put the horses in
danger by flying purposely over our property. I mean make sure you I mean I don't have a problem with the exhibits you showed as far as the flight pattern goes. I mean it looks like you're doing everything you can on paper. to stay away from her house. Um again when I I see the videos and and granted we weren't able to see your videos because of some difficulties with the computer, but I mean just my position is as long as you guys use as much uh caution and and courteousness as you can for for her property, I I don't see how we have choice
in the matter. I I'd like to move that we um
approved this application. Um I think there's two revisions, one limiting and I I don't know if you guys have a feeling for number of people. I mean is it four, is it two?
I would say, you know, like it from I would say
Sir, I would say the lowest and that's uh lowest and most common is two to four. Um there is some occasions like if we had a birthday party that we like to do a cookout or something or fourth of July or something, that number may go I've never seen it higher than seven or eight, uh usually ten people show, but the one time we had uh ten people show but they decided to opt and not take off. But say I'd say worst case scenario ten, uh usual basis four.
Okay, well I I thought the question was answered asked earlier about normal flights in a
month and it was four. The times, yes, the repetitions of times. That's correct. But it's say if we was and that'd be a normal basis. Like I said, if we was having a a celebration, like a fourth July cookout or a birthday party, we may have
to be clear, I don't think Mr. Jorardi is talking about limiting the number of people on this. I think he's talking about limiting the number of flights. Uh per day or per month or whatever. Thank you very much. Honestly, we don't the Planning Commission doesn't regulate how many people congregate on this property. They regulate the flights. That that's what's before us is the flights, not how many people go to a birthday party. Understood. So the question is how many flights, what's the maximum number of flights you have Are you talking about per day
or per month is what you
either either one. I
mean
I I just think we need a I think we need a revised condition to include in here. Language added to the approval condition.
I would say if we were uh well given that most of us work and I don't think we can come out every day, uh you would say two per day, but it you that's r really, in my opinion, an unrealistic number since a more on a week scale would be more appropriate. I would say on a week on a weekly scale would probably be about six to eight flights on a week, given in the height of our flying season would be a Summer.
So let me speak for code enforcement a second because I don't think our code enforcement officers will camp out there for a week. Okay, they're they're gonna they're gonna want to know a maximum per day because
I would say I would say I would say uh four I would say two per day.
So you're comfortable with a maximum of two per
day. Yes, that would be two pilots taken off and landing. That would constitute two flights.
And they can only take off and land one time? Or are you saying they can land, take off
again? I would say I would say a flight constitutes a takeoff and a landing.
Okay, but if you have two pilots out there from what you're saying they can only take off and land and then they have to go home. You don't ever go fly multiple times in a day?
If weather permits, and it's rarely because like I say in the height season we have the thunderstorms in the VM morning, but if you wanna if you want a maximum number just for a safeguard, I would double that, say four.
Four so four flights meaning a takeoff and landing constituting one flight? Correct.
Alright, so we're just gonna add with a maximum of four flights per day to the end of condition nine. And then the other revision to the to the motion or amendment to the motion would be to change condition eleven to be from
um dawn to dusk instead of eight a.m. to dusk.
Okay. Do we have a second?
I'll shake it.
We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion of the motion?
You know, this is a tough one for me. I can see property rights on your side of the fence, and I think that the individual who has brought the complaint Uh obviously it's not well no I won't say that. But my concern is that it's an economic issue to her. She bought horses there. She never indicated that she has lost any income from it other than numeric value for the horses that she could have versus the number she currently has. Yet
there's no proof that uh Uh that she has indicated that people have declined uh boarding horses there. But on the other hand, it makes sense. They they are noisy. She showed that in her videos. They did fly over her property. Uh I don't know about this state, but in some states I've lived in there is you have personal airspace above your house. It's not very high, but I think it's a little bit more than what you guys fly from when you were trying to land.
So with with that said, I think I'll probably end up voting negative on this one.
To to be clear, I just want to be clear with the Planning Commission, even if you prove this, it doesn't stop the neighbor from bringing a private nuisance action against them if she has damages. So don't assume that just an approval of this precludes her from seeking damages against bringing a private cause of action.
Yeah, that that's understood, but that's that's uh A financial uh burden on her, and obviously the folks that want to have these power glided veh uh vehicles or landcraft on the property have obviously invested a considerable amount of time and energy and financial resources to to try to bring this to this body. Uh so then it becomes an economic issue for her if she wants to do that, but that's not our problem. That's hers. So I just wanted to do that.
I'm just saying I don't want you to assume that somehow if you vote yes, that she's precluded from going after them for damages. She can still do that.
No, I think I'll vote no.
Okay. Any further discussion? Yeah, I guess we need uh induced vote, I think. Yeah. Because of the quorums? Do we? Yeah,
we have a quorum. You have a quorum?
We
can vote first.
Okay. Alright, so all in favor of the motion signified by saying aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed?
I'm opposed. Vote no.
Okay. So um wanna have a roll call?
Captain Ryan? Four.
No.
Four.
Chairman Charles Gray?
All right. Thank you.
I'd just like to remind both parties that this is a conditional use approval, so it'll be going to the Board of County Commissioners for final action.
Okay.