SPECIAL EXCEPTION (CONSENT) - Ryan A. and Elizabeth J. Pryor - Private School (Baseball and Softball School) in an A-R Agricultural-Residential District – Central Pasco County - Approximately 320 Feet South of the Intersection of Hadlock Drive and Elkmont Lane - Containing Approximately 5 Acres
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approval with conditions
No disposition in the minutes
The approved minutes do not say what became of this item. That is a gap in the record, not a decision. It is the normal state for 24% of items. Most of those are regular business and board reports that the minutes do not dispose of in writing. This archive never infers an outcome from the fact that someone called a vote.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Feb 21, 2019
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Feb 21, 2019
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PDD-19-7389 in full →PDD-19-7389 was taken up 2 times between Feb 7, 2019 and Feb 21, 2019 — this is appearance 2.
- Feb 7, 2019PlanningPC9▶Approved
- Feb 21, 2019PlanningPC6▶No disposition in the minutesthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 51m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 82% of 663 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
And the following item PC 6 PDD 197389 would like to remove that from the consent agenda as there are some folks here who would like to discuss the item.
Okay.
And are all the other items on regular.
Yeah, okay. So
Okay, so we're gonna uh hear P C six.
Yeah. Just gearing it up for you. Okay. PC6 is PDD 197389 in the name of Ryan A. and Elizabeth J. Pryor. This is for a private school, baseball and softball school in an AR agricultural district. This particular item, the request is to have a baseball and softball school for a by appointment, which is by appointment only, and for a total of four students. on
the property at any given time.
Okay.
The parcel is located approximately three hundred and twenty feet south of the intersection of Hadlock Drive and Elkmonton Lane. The existing zoning on the subject site is AR, Agricultural Residential. And it's surrounded by several agricultural uses, which include boarding stables, equine veterinarian,
some other horse stables, and agricultural uses surrounding it, including site-built homes, you know, single-family res dwellings. The existing land use, as you can see, is res three, three dwelling units per acre. Here's the aerial of the subject site.
And here is the site plan that the applicant has provided.
I know there will be a lot of questions on this item. There's some folks here to uh to to discuss these. I also do want to submit for the record some information that was received by the objecting party. If I may, if you can move to receive and file. And what this is is a uh kind of like an analysis that was done regarding trip generation and a comparison. Yeah.
Yeah, can I have a motion to receive and file? Yes.
Barbara Well Hight [address removed] for the applicant. Um I'm not sure if the author of this memo is present. Um so I I think the procedure is I mean I don't have any ability to ask this person any questions, so.
So you're correct, Barbara, that you do have the right to cross examine that witness. Um I mean do you want a continuance so do you have the right to cross examine the witness?
I don't think that should be on me because their witness isn't here.
Yeah.
I continued this matter two weeks already because their witness couldn't be here last time. So
Well it's really up to the Planning Commission. I mean you you're not bound by strict rules of evidence. Um you don't ha you could disregard it and not receive and file it since The witness isn't here. Um Or you could just take it for what it's worth and then barber can You know, bring her expert up to challenge the sufficiency of what's in it. Um but it's really up to the Planning Commission. What's
what's the difference between that? And an email we receive and the person doesn't Come to the meeting.
There I'm not sure there is a substantive difference. I mean Barber has the right as the applicant to cross examine Any witness?
And I think she's objecting because she doesn't have the right to cross examine. Mr. Pini. Um you you can do you know, you can accept the letter for what it is, recognizing that Barbara doesn't have the ability to question it. Um Or you could continue it until Barbara has the ability to to question that that person. It's really up to the Planning Commission. You're not bound by strict rules of evidence, so you can Receive and file it or not. But I understand Barbara's objection
is because she doesn't She can't question the person who wrote it.
Yeah, well I think uh I mean just my opinion, I think that's a very material part of any consideration is to be able to cross examine somebody who's supposedly bringing uh expert evidence here. So that's for the board to consider whether they want to receive and file or not.
I mean I guess I the difficulty that I'm having is that Yeah, we will receive A ton of emails. From people that claim all kinds of things, you know, some legitimate and some not. Um correspond to do that. I don't disagree, but
in in that c but in most cases they also show up, which means the applicant would have the ability to cross examine them. if the applicant wanted to And in most cases the applicant's not objecting to the receipt of that email. I mean there Right. So you you just receive it, but the the applicant isn't filing. Here we have the applicant filing an objection to you receiving that report. So you all have to make a decision about whether you want to receive and file it or not. Um
May I ask just two questions? Barbara, have you had a chance to read that document?
So it did was emailed earlier uh maybe two hours ago
when
I was in a meeting at the county.
So you have not had an opportunity to review it?
I have skimmed through it on my phone.
Okay, I understand that. The second question is was it emailed to whom? Who was the party that received it?
I received it. I have been working with the applic with the attorney for the money. But
who made who made copies?
Oh
Yeah. The county did. And was it addressed to the county or was it addressed to the their attorney?
It is addressed to the Planning Commission. So it was sent to me as Denise, here is this document and my responsibility is public record and putting it out of the way.
So it's a public record right now. I move I move to receive and file, please. I second.
Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on the motion?
Right. I tend to want to vote no. In fact I will vote no on because of the time factor involved with it. Usually we get those kinds of things before the quickly, so I have not had an opportunity to read it myself, so Anyway. But I think there's a motion on the floor and we're gonna
have a motion on the floor. Any i i if there's no further discussion, let's have a roll call vote.
So just under discussion. Um I'm upset. long time on on boards and um it's the first time I've ever seen someone really object to something like this. So it's a little bit new, but I want to be consistent in in the way I have done things and that is somebody wants to put something into the record, um th that's the reason why I made the motion. whether or not it carries any weight. is a whole nother issue. Right. I mean it's
Could could I add something? That this isn't just an email. They're they've attached a resume and claiming it's an expert report. That's where it's different than just an email or a fact or somebody writing you a letter. They have a court reporter here and they're tending to put this in the record as an expert report and I don't have an ability to talk to that expert or ask any expert. And so that's where it's really different in this regard.
Okay, I uh I I see what I see
what you're saying. That's where I object because I I have experience being an expert witness and I know that You can't be an expert witness if you're not there to be cross examined. So that's that's where I have a problem with it. And we have a motion on the floor.
Well Ms. But Ms. Woolheit was able to address it further. So I'd like to just do that.
I don't think there's any harm in letting this is the person that's uh attempting to proffer the evidence, let her speak. All right.
Yes, thank you. Um yes, Commissioner We received this literally this morning. Yes, Alison Dusset with smoker Bartlett, Low Pines and Thompson, one hundred North Tampa Street, suite 2050, Tampa, Florida. This document was received by Ms. Terra Pani this morning, and we forwarded it to Ms. Wilhite the moment that we received it. And the reason for the delay is we were discussing issues with the applicant, and part of and Ms. Wilhite was fully aware that we had retained Ms. Terra Paney.
That's why we had continued the hearing. Unfortunately, she still was unable to make it today, which is included in the memorandum that. She was unable to make it. Um and you know This analysis was done a Essentially, I think last night by Ms. Tarapany because we were discussing the limitation on the number of trips per day and things like that. Our concern primarily, as you'll hear in our presentation, is with respect to the number of car trips on this very small easement, and that's what Ms. Terrapanny was addressing.
And we didn't know the daily maximum until just yesterday.
Okay, but how do you respond to Ms. Will Hight's argument that she has no argument? opportunity to cross examine Mr. Rapini.
I understand that that's her position. I think that it appears that she also has an expert here today. So obviously, as um Mr. Cox indicated, you know, what weight you want to give this analysis versus the analysis that she intends to present is up to the commission. But I think that the rules of evidence are not strict in this case and it's appropriate to at least put into the record.
Are you trying to qualify her as an expert?
You know, I included her resume just in terms of in order to make it a complete submission. Um I think that her her tests or her you know memorandum here does uh obviously include references to you know the transportation um institute and things like that with respect to the number of trips that are
but
answer my
question directly. Are you trying to qualify her as an expert?
I believe that she is an expert, yes. And I have to do that. You
are attempting to do that.
Okay, we've heard the arguments from both sides. It's ri it's really up to the Planning Commission. I think you have leeway either way.
As to whether you want to receive and file this?
Yeah, under discussion, I think that if it's if it's that important to do that then mill Ms Will Hike could ask for a continuance on it. So See where it goes,
I guess. you've already been down that road, haven't you?
All right, anyway, we have a motion, we have a second, and we've had discussion. Let's have a roll call vote, please.
Michael Cox?
Yes.
Peter Handel?
No.
Jamie Girardi?
No.
Yes.
Uh Richard Snello.
David, I'm voting. So I'm he only votes in the event of a tie.
Chairman Charles Gray?
No.
So the note was Two to three with Pierre Hansel, Jamie Girardi, and Chairman Mariano voting nay. Motion is denied.
Okay, so the document is not received and filed.
Again, so this uh it was a quick presentation. There are some conditions of approval uh regarding the number of students on the site at any given time. There are some conditions of approval regarding the uh days and hours of operation. Uh there are some conditions uh four specifically that discusses uh required maintenance of the road. There is a condition regarding allowing unrestricted access to emergency vehicles to the site. And there
are some conditions regarding uh PA systems, sensor sensory intrusion, um uh decibel levels uh which are consistent with uh the uh um the noise ordinance, considering this site as uh commercial use, not agricultural. And um And uh conditions regarding uh not allowing like objects so netting so that the balls won't fall onto a just adjacent neighbors properties. The
other conditions are very standard conditions uh regarding having to sign the acknowledgement form and so on and so forth. Uh staff is recommending approval with conditions. I know there will be a lot of questions, so I guess we'll go through those as
so Denise, can I ask an initial question?
Sure.
It sounds like the objection is mostly about the road. So And I know staff has Conditions dealing with the condition of this road. Yes. Who on our staff went out and The planning commission has questions about the condition of the road and What needs to be done to the road, who would they ask?
We have Will Poon here available to answer questions. Okay. I hope he's behind me somewhere.
I think you see him. He's raise your hand, Will. Okay. So if you have questions about staff's review of the road, that's what you would ask. Thank you.
Okay.
Right. So the applicant's present. Here we go.
Barbara Wilhite, 2523, Permit Place, New Port Richey Florida, 34655 for the applicant. I have Cynthia uh Spidel here who has wants to run through a quick uh presentation, uh PowerPoint. Um so I'm I'm gonna present Cynthia Spidel.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, Barbara. Cynthia Speidel, King Engineering, 4921 Memorial Highway, Tampa. And I have been sworn. I'll just give Denise a minute to flip over.
So you've met Barbara already. Um I'm Cynthia, I'm the planner. And do I use this to click?
Which more like it Whoops that Yeah. So this is just an aerial list site. It's on five acres. Uh Denise uh gave a description of where it is. Uh this 320 feet south of the intersection of Hadlock Drive in Elkmont Lane, containing about five acres. Uh and Barbara is handing out her revisions to the conditions of approval. Barbara has reached out to the opposition and made an effort to renegotiate some of the conditions to try to address the opposition's concerns. So
you will see a lot of red line changes on the handout that she's presenting to you. So I just wanted to give a couple of shots of here so you can see. Um you know it's heavily wooded around it. Uh and the parking lot there, he's got a very large driveway in the front of his house. So in going through the planning research, the planning analysis for this particular special exception, uh the county has six criteria that they talk about in their staff report, and I
was just gonna go through each of the six criteria to sort of expand on that to justify their conditions.
We need a motion to receive and file this, please.
Motion to receive and file this. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Further discussion of the motion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carried? Okay, go ahead.
Thank you. So the first uh criterion is the proposed use shall be consistent with the goals, objectives, and policies of the adopted comprehensive plan elements or applicable portions thereof. So the underlying future land use classification of this particular property is res 3, as Denise had pointed out before. And Res 3 specifically allows for recreational uses. So residential uses, agriculture, agriculture-related uses, recreation facilities, neighborhood scale public and semi-public uses such as central
utility systems. So therefore, Res3 specifically calls out recreation facilities, and it doesn't limit that to any specific recreational facility.
Um this is just a rehashing of the flu map so you can see that it's surrounded by Res3 as well.
Number two, the proposed use will not create or excessively increase traffic or parking congestion or otherwise affect public safety. So in working with the opposition, Ms. Willheit and the applicant have agreed to keeping a maximum amount of students of 20 per day. And that will keep the gross trips below the county's de minimis threshold of 50 a day. So it will not trigger a timing and phasing analysis. Um and there's also a condition, as Denise mentioned, about
the road that our applicant has agreed to sort of um Bring the road not necessarily to county standard because the opposition doesn't want it to be paved, but yet they're willing to kind of grade it and and do it and there's a condition that Ms. Will Hight will go through with you.
Um number three, the site upon which the proposed use is to be located has suitable drainage, access, ingress, and egress on site parking, loading areas, refuse collection, and adequate utilities available to service the site. So again, Barbara's gonna kind of go through some of the revisions to the conditions that she proposed to sort of address the opposition's concerns. The applicant has agreed to them, and there is sufficient since there's no more than four students allowed on the property. Property at one time, his large driveway, and I think I got a picture right here, his large driveway would easily accommodate an
additional four vehicles.
Number four, the site upon which the special exception is to be located has or will have screening buffering sufficient to prevent interference with the enjoyment of surrounding properties. Condition number nine, in your handout addresses flyaway balls. There's netting. I have the we have a couple of pictures here of some of the netting that. that's uh been proposed. Well actually it's already there. And here's a little the the pole barn and it's surrounded by nets. And that's 30 feet. The pole barn is thirty feet away from the property boundary on the west side.
You can see it there. I don't know, do I have a clicker or a pointer here? The circle here.
Oh yeah, right there, there's the pole barn. And that's at least thirty feet away from the pr boundary line.
So buffering, so in general, we planners, what do we do when we want to know what kind of buffering is required? And obviously this can be conditioned as uh can be conditioned because it's a special exception, but in general, you look to the zoning and AR or AC and there are no uh There are there's no required buffering between AR and AR or AR and AC zoning. Uh the pole barn is thirty feet from the side and I'll just go back to the picture, but you can see it's it's heavily whoops, where am I going?
How do I get back? What am I going? I'm going forward. I gotta go back.
This is by fun. Oh.
So yes, as you can see the site is heavily wooded all around most of the sides, so we're really just talking about where the pole barn is. We're talking about 2,500 square feet. That's where the pole barn is, where you saw before where that had the netting surrounded it, and then the baseball diamond here in the corner. And that also had netting and a little structured wall around it to prevent the balls from flying over. So
Uh number five, proposed signs and lighting will not create any adverse glare or adversely affect traffic safety, economic value, or cause other significant problems on adjoining or surrounding properties. Condition number six in your handout addresses that. The applicant has also agreed to turn the lighting off at certain times. And Barbara is gonna go through that condition as well.
There is adequate yard and open space to serve the property upon which a special exception use will be maintained. The subject property is over five acres. It provides more than adequate open space for the proposed use, and according to the applicant sketch in which the private sessions will occur is approximately 2,500 square feet out of that five acres. And that's it. Do you have any questions for me?
Any questions from up here?
Okay. Thank you. Barbara?
Yes, thank you. Thank you, Cynthia. So I've been as I do work on conditions and try to make them clear and try to address concerns through conditions and I've done that and you've handed those out. But I think what would be helpful is to allow um anybody that has concerns to you h for you to hear those concerns and then we'll come back and I'll go over the conditions and um at that time.
Do you want to reserve your time?
Opposition have your proposed revisions? They do. Okay.
Okay. Do you want to come forward again? Restate your name and all that information. Yes, you're not going to be able to do that.
Uh Alison Juzet from Smoker Barlet, uh one hundred North Tampa Street, um, Tampa, Florida. Um I'm here today on my
sworn, uh Chair asked if you were sworn.
Yes, I was sworn. I'm sorry I didn't I didn't hear you, sir. Um and Commissioner, I'd also like to, I don't, you know, I'm not sure if this is quite appropriate at this time, but in light of our um Ms. Terpani's memorandum being excluded, we would request a continuance to allow us to um provide that testimony in person. She did have an unavoidable conflict and we um you know felt like that was a sufficient portion for the record. So I did want to state that or request that initially.
Well, My feeling is the sense you are obviously willing to accept it as virtually none. expert testimony because she wasn't here. Why don't you just present what she wanted to tell us?
That sounds good to me. Thank you, Mr. Greg. Um obviously our our clients own a own essentially the entirety of the surrounding property. Ms and Mr. and Mrs. Dion sold the house and the five acres to Mr. and Mrs. Pryor. Um and as part of that sale included within it a 30-foot-wide easement. That travels from Hadlock Road down Elkmont Lane. Elkmont Lane is a private road. It is a 15-foot wide gravel
road, and I have pictures that Miss Dion can authenticate. And you may remember from a prior application that this road is really not intended to service any sort of commercial business. you know, from our research and from what m what Ms. Therapani Um you know, has provided to us. An average single family home has between nine and ten trips per day. That is the standard amount of trips. And
that estimated trips per week equals 66. We've done a calculation that under the current proposal of a maximum number of 20 students per day, which I also understand is a maximum Of four students on the property at any time and no less than 30-minute lessons, but nevertheless 20 students per day, that totals 240 trips per week. So that's 240. trips up and down a 15-foot-wide easement which our clients have
provided. In addition, there's another private easement on the Hadlock Drive portion and one of the other neighbors is also here today and I think will be speaking. And so from our perspective that is just entirely too much. We understand that the intensity has been dropped from what Mr. Pryor initially intended, but unfortunately The easement just can't handle that sort of traffic. It's not paved. It is not, there's no, I I believe there's no intent to widen the easement. And so we're looking at a 15-foot wide piece
of land that, you know, 20 students, parents, or you know, students themselves are gonna be driving in and out of on a daily basis. Our clients own a horse farm that surrounds it. They regularly cross over the easement with their horses. You know, there's a tremendous amount of dust that is generated from this type of operation through the traffic in and out and that impacts our clients properly as well. So from our perspective the property is just not intended,
that easement is not intended, and it's a burden on the easement to allow this number of trips.
Can I ask a question?
If your complaint is that the road is insufficient. For their school Why are you opposed to it being paved?
Uh you know, the because the the easement is not in it's not intended to be a thoroughfare for such a business and I don't think that there's anything in the easement that you know requires our client to consent to paving and they don't want it to be paved. It's my understanding that the additional easement on Hadlock Road, which is the same um you know, 15 foot wide is also, you know, then other neighboring parties that own fifteen feet on either side of that easement don't agree to have it paved as well. Um I understand that, you know, it might sound
like most people would want a road to be paved um that they're using. However, that's just not the case here and they don't consent to any paving on the road. I think the concern there, to be frank, is that If the road is paved, then people driving down it will drive even faster than they currently do, and it's already a safety hazard. From their perspective.
Well let me just follow up on that. Uh I don't think um There is any requirement to pave the road. I don't think the county's requiring them to pave the road. And I I think uh Um they're willing to improve the road so that it it won't be a hazard. From my understanding. And also I have a question about the the number of trips that you Uh huh. indicated because I I when I spoke to the county about this, I believe the number of trips they indicated to me were substantially less
than what you just said.
I and I think in um Miss Bedell's test or testimony just now, she said that they had estimated fifty trips and our estimate is sixty-six. Um and I may be wrong about that. I'm just going off of memory. You know, our our number of trips is assuming that, and this has been historically, and Miss Dion can testify to this, this has been historically the way that um he had operated previously before he had approval. was that parents drive in, they drop off their children and then drive out again. And so it's a
it's more than just a single in and out, it's actually in out, in, out um for each student.
again, my experience is with my own children is when I take my children I don't leave. I leave and stay there with them and watch 'em. So I don't think that would necessarily be true.
Perhaps not. I think that even if um you know perhaps all p not all parents would do that, that's historically what they've seen and that's um what we best remember.
You know, there may not be four children showing up every time. I mean it may not have twenty people every day.
That's true. You know, I think that the problem is fundamentally that this row just cannot accommodate really, you know, the maximum of 20. I um assume that maximum is tied to what that they need in order to operate their business there. And I think that um from our client's perspective, you have to assume that he's going to fill up that. um those twenty twenty students a day, you know, most days. And if that's the case, even if it's fifty trips, that's fifty
trips or you know, in you know, fifty trips on a fifteen foot wide road that our clients um don't Agree to expand in any way. And it's my understanding that the applicant doesn't intend to widen it anyway. And so our objection Because
you didn't want him to widen it.
We we do not want to widen the easement either. And I don't think there's any requirement, and nor have they shown that they they could widen the easement if that was part of what the county would require in order to have it be a safe ingress and egress. This many people. I'll tell you that in order to for two cars to pass on this road at the same time, they can't. One has to pull off entirely to the side. And I do have pictures that Miss Dion has taken, if that would be helpful for you all to visualize
the actual easement that we're discussing.
Okay. And
I can hand those.
I'll I'll move the receiving file.
Second it. We have a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion carried. Go ahead.
Kind of a question, wouldn't
you?
Any other questions or no?
You'll see the the first picture is the easement looking down towards the subject property is at the end of this on the right. The second pitcher is making the turn from Hadlock Drive. Um turning right onto Elkmont Lane. And you'll see that this is actually Um where that barricade is. That's actually a little bridge of sorts with a 14-foot wide. He's been and then the last two
pictures were actually um Miss Dion would also or could also come and testify that mister Pryor's been operating without Um this actual sac special exception during this period of time and that we have come you know issues in terms of who would be Enforcing compliance with the special exception. I think, Mr. Hansel, did you have a question?
I do.
Yes.
I'm a little confused.
It reads in essence that the surrounding area is characterized by horse riding schools, horse training,
Mm-hmm.
And there's also a sports medicine or a sports medicine veterinarian who practices a commercial horse breeding facility there. How does that not impact The community too. Is it kind of like you want this, but they can't have that? I mean, once defined by surrounding areas, it's
right. And I think that the county can probably address what they defined as the surrounding area. Those and my client can tell you that those properties that are mentioned are actually on the main road primarily. And so this property is actually, you know, much further than that off of Hadlock Road and then. onto a
Yeah, but in the past and sometimes I don't remember things really clearly, but this time I kinda do, where the some of the opponents to this indicated that do they do in fact live near his property. They raise the horses and they offer riding lessons. I think I'm assuming the surrounding area is like the immediate area. Or is the surrounding area ten miles away? I so maybe we can clarify that.
Yeah, and it might be that the county can clarify that. I'm not sure what they were looking at in terms of the surrounding area. I know that I think that some of the neighbors do offer, you know, intermittent you know riding lessons here and there, but it's not a you know an actual sort of commercial operation in in the sense that this is a very important thing.
But they do ride they do
charge a fee
for those those lessons, correct?
Yes, yes.
So therefore it would be considered commercial.
Right, yeah. And in fact, right. And that but not necessarily I think it's on a, you know, one off basis. But however, I think that my client could actually probably answer that question if you want me to um bring her up here. Um and so that is
Is that your testimony now? Are you finished?
I am I am finished.
I just want to give a chance for everybody to up here to ask questions if they have.
I have a question too, but I wasn't sure if she was done. And I'm not sure if it's for you or your client, but It looks like the area right now is being used for Some agricultural operations including
Yeah. So If your argument is that The road is too narrow for the school How are the horse trailers? I mean the horse trailer's gonna be even wider than a car, so If two horse trailers are passing each other on this road, what are they doing?
I assume that if two trailers are passing um each other that one would have to pull off. However, that's you know, this that's not an everyday occurrence and uh it you know it there are horses on this property, but it's not it's not a well-traveled road. It's intended for a single family residence and
But it's it from the the picture you're showing, it looks like there's a grassy area on either side of the easement. So presumably the road is not stopping those horse trailers from passing each other.
No, it's not stopping it. It's on to an unmaintained uh basically right-of-way. Some of which if you look at the second picture is actually water and wetlands. So it's not actually feasible to To pass on the side. Um or safe.
Okay.
it picture looking towards Elkamont Lane as around the corner and then you have the little barricade, that is water directly next to it.
So right there. So if you had a horse trailer coming from either direction at that location, what would the horse trailer do?
Well you would have to stop. There would be an issue. I mean I think that Well
how how are they doing it now, I'm asking because there's horse trailers out there now, what are they doing?
If you wanna can you come up, Mr. John?
Well let me before you do that, before you bring anybody else up. Um are there any other questions for this person. This
is my only question. So
for for this for this person. a question.
Well I have a clarification. This this photo is is if I was gonna cherry pick something, this is a photo I cherry pick because what we do is you got that stream going across there, which by nature is gonna make the road consolidate or become narrow at that point. But if you go beyond it or before it it seems to be much wider. So I just wanna say that You are presenting something here that is.
Okay, well I'm asking a question that will get
to that
issue. So let's uh let her
and I think if I just may address that comment. Obviously um we're taking a picture of the actual condition of the road in one place where all of these uh individuals would have to drive by. And so I think that you know our position is in to approve something that would require a significant amount of people to drive off of the side of a p unpaved road is our, you know, is our concern, that it's a burden on that easement that's not maintained for that purpose.
My question is how are the horse trailers doing it now?
Okay. Um very few.
Okay. Uh my [address removed].
Um Have you been sworn?
I'm sorry. Were you sworn? Yeah, it's a sweet. Yes. Yes, I'm sorry, I'm not hearing you very well.
And your name, please.
And my name is Amanda Dion. And very rarely we don't have horse trailers going in very often or out. People show grace um and we've never had a problem. The problem that we've had with the issue that we're discussing now is Cars coming and going and They do drop off and leave. I've witness this over the past.
This picture that was shown to us, okay.
That presumably a lot doesn't allow You to pass right where the stream is. So my question is if you had two cars approaching at this location, would one just wait till the other crosses? Okay. That's my question. Correct. All right, you've answered. Thank you. Okay.
Um thank you. I think that's my entire presentation. I mean, I think I can have um Miss Dion come up and testify as to the things I've proffered that she would say, but I think that our uh presentation is clear that it's our position that two cars can't fit on this easement, it's a private easement and I'm paved road um and there's no, you know, right to upgrade, pave, maintain, or otherwise that would cre you know, eliminate the issue. Um and then again the the last two pictures of that package are just showing
recent operations um out of compliance by by the applicant. So thank you. And any other questions I'm happy to
address. I have a question for staff but not for a question. Oh you
do have a question? Mike So if they're operating right now, is has any of the operations that they are having is it having an effect on the true agricultural uh purposes that are going on there with the horses and such.
I will I will let Misty on if she can come up and address that, you know, her daily because she's is the one that's operating out there um with her horse firm and I think the answer to that is yes, but I'll let her answer a question.
Yes, yes we do. We have considerable dust. Um you have people that one don't live out there so You don't have a lot of respect level at times. Most people are good, but we've had cars hauling in there. I have a lady out there that has her horse and was almost kicked in the head from a speeding car going down there. It's We ki like to keep it a little rough. One, the horses don't want the pavement and two, it slows down the speeding cars, which they do do. And I have witnessed
many people have witnessed and it has become quite a hindrance.
the light that he had up there, along with the floodlights he has on his house or during directly towards our properties and the surrounding and it lights up like a Christmas tree. Um The dust is just phenomenal. We have to go out there and hose it down last time as the cars go by. Stand there and hose it to eliminate the dust, which isn't very good for the horses as well. that's we cross that road, that's about the time excuse me. that we feed. We cross with horses and it's a continual
pass of cars going. Whether there's twenty cars, it's gonna be four coming in. And I'm looking at four every half hour. That's four in, four out. It's gonna be like a freeway. I have witnessed it I've witnessed it. And we are the ones that are out there. I don't know if you gentlemen have been out there or not. It's a ver the scope of that easement. It is not a road, it is a private easement. It does not It it's just it doesn't work. It
just doesn't work. And that's all I can say is from what we've witnessed and we've experienced and we've lived.
Can I ask you a question? I'm sorry. Unless you're done. Are you done with Yeah, I'm done. Thank you. When you you sold Mr. Parr the property, did you put anything in the easement that limited the scope of what could go on it?
Note just the standard easement that went in the clause when we sold the house as it normally does.
So you didn't say it could only put you can only have so many trips on it or you can only use it for certain use?
It would be just a standard use, I guess, with the real estate. The real estate agent, the broker and the real estate agent handled that.
My question is did you restrict the property in any way as to what could use the road when you sold the property?
No, seeing fit that he would be using it as a residential
Did you did you de restrict it to residential when you sold sold it?
It is residential aggregate.
I'm asking whether you, as a private landowner, when you sold the property, did you deed restrict it to residential?
I I'm not sure the question, maybe Caitlin, you could answer that.
Did your lawyer know the answer to the question?
I think that that's a probably a legal question that I'd be better to answer. I don't believe there were no deed restrictions included within um the transaction. I have a copy of the deed that we can enter if you'd like. It's also I can give the recording information. It the deed is simply, as Ms. Dion said, included as part of the uh or the easement is included as part of the Well if
you're telling me there was no deed restriction there. Yeah. If you're telling me there was no deed restriction on use and there was no restriction on the use of the easement, that answers my question. Is that your what you're saying?
Right, there was no separate deed restriction, correct?
And was there any restriction on how many trips could use the easement?
restriction on these then I think that would obviously be a legal argument maybe perhaps for another day between parties in terms of
I'm asking in your private transaction Were there any restrictions? That's all I'm if
you're saying
no, okay.
It was a it was a standard ingress and egress easement contained within the deed.
Okay. You've answered my question.
So I have another question. So in your private transaction What did you believe the
buyer was gonna use the property for.
For agri excuse me. For residential. Once we were knee deep in contracts we found out otherwise by websites and that's when we came concerned and there was nothing we could do about it at that point. So Mr. Pryor opened a facility. We've been through this before. a couple of years ago and he just proceeded to open on his own with No permits, no permission, just And went hog wild. We had cars up
and down all day, the dust. We had
So so when you were in the process of selling is
when you realized and could not get out when we discovered what was going on.
I find that I find that I find that a little hard to believe.
Is it the same lawyer you have with you today?
No, no, no, no. Um Tony Woodward was at the closing for the closing.
Okay.
Ms. D and I got a just a question for clarification. What can you clarify what what do you use your property that you did not sell for?
W our property that we have now, our existing property. Yes. We have horses out there. We have race horses that we've bred. So we have babies out there that are and mares that are weaned and are weaning and we have two at the racetrack that are gone. So
I mean do you offer riding lessons? Do
you board any horses? They're all personal use?
No money's exchanged.
It's just where the forces play and live peacefully and quietly. Mm.
David, I'm looking at the deed and there's no restriction on the easement, just for clarification.
Yeah,
just want to make sure.
Thank you. Okay. I have a question for staff, but I don't have any more questions. Okay. Thank you very much.
All right, thank you.
Go ahead, David, for staff. Denise, I I guess there's a dispute about whether there's this use is gonna generate fifty trips or sixty-seven trips. Does Do you or Will have a Position on that?
I believe we have someone here who can answer that question.
Is that Will?
Okay. Amir can you come up and answer that question?
Will you might as well come up to you because I have a follow up question, so let's just get it all you have a seat, sir.
Okay. I'll wait. Just don't forget me.
Forget who?
Forget B. Oh. I'm one of the property owners.
For trip generation calculation we have assumed twenty students per day.
Amir, I'm sorry. Could you just give your full name?
Okay. This is Amir Jamali, transportation planner with current planning.
Thank you.
Okay.
Pull the microphone up a little bit. There you go. There you go. There you go. Now
we're going to do that. I'm Ramali, transportation planner with car in planning.
Okay.
For trip generation we have assumed twenty students per day, which is the maximum twenty students they have supposed. And each student has one trip entering the property and one trip exiting the trip. And per day it would be forty trips per day. Forty.
Yeah.
Okay. So my follow up question is if you assume forty trips per day
Mm-hmm.
And And you require the road to be improved in c in accordance with condition four. Which I believe staff recommended. It requires That the part of the route be stabilized using compacted subgrade specification accordance to latest DOT specs, section one sixty says stabilizing. I'm not sure I know what that means. Okay, but my question is If the road is improved to that condition, it is your what is your opinion about whether that can accommodate Forty students per day.
I don't know if you need to answer that or Will needs to answer that, so I'm okay with whoever wants to answer.
I think we to me because it's not a public road, it's a private, uh as long as it's stabilized and the Farter can use that road for us is enough.
So you believe if they comply with condition four it'll accommodate forty Forty trips a day. Yeah. Okay. That answers my question.
So I so I have a question on the on the trip generation then.
So Twenty students maximum in and out forty trips. D you did not take into consideration that maybe there's uh parents out there that may not be as engaged as Mr. Gray is in the development of their child and that they just want to drop them off and leave.
Because it's thirty minutes session classes or something like that.
Minimum of thirty minutes?
So
so they could be there for two hours.
Uh yeah.
Not if they want to have an X group.
Based on the IT manual, actually we have a rate. Based on the IT manual gener TIP generation, and they have at three point zero seven per members. It's not the is daily students, it's members, it's total registered students.
And if we use that rates it would be the same. I don't know about is the total members.
Yeah.
Yep.
And let me ask you something, I understand what Mr Cox or Commissioner Cox just say. You are basing a manual in a black and white. We ni we are trying to be realistic here. When I say realistic is you have twenty students, you just use the same uh uh standards for every single student that it's just going to be just one single trip in and out. I think we need to factor a percent of those students that
the pa the parents will drop the students. go back to their TVs and they're going to go back to pick up the kids. That's all I I believe that we need to do that.
Keep in mind that is a rough estimate and it's a maximum mm because they don't have every day they have they don't have twenty students per each single day.
I think.
Let me ask a follow-up question because it may clear this up. So
Let's assume that it's what the opponents say that it's sixty seven trips per day. Okay. If they comply with condition four, do you think the road can accommodate sixty seven trips a day?
Mm, yep.
Okay. Thank you.
And uh just as a comment back to what you're questioning, Roberto, I understand what you're saying. My my point was is that I don't know if they have twenty, but that's the maximum they can have. They might have ten.
And if they're gonna
if they're gonna if they're
you know, on trips because somebody might not decide to stay there. Then they also have to make adjustments for the number of students that might not show up.
Uh let me ask you another question when you mentioned that and maybe David You can answer this. What we see right now is they are going to have a facility that allows twenty students to practice theirs. How we can in time, be sure that they're going to have just twenty Do we have any kind of
so if
Generating more than twenty students per day. That would be a violation of their conditions. And staff could either initiate a code enforcement action, incite them. Or they could bring the special exception back for revocation. Either we have two ways of enforcing it. So Probably they'd be cited first and if it then if it was repeated we'd probably bring it back for revocation of this of the special exception. But we operate generally on a complaint basis. I don't know that a quote enforcement officer is gonna sit out there Unless
somebody calls them and says, hey, we think they're generating more than twenty.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Any other questions for Amy?
All right. I think we had one other person that wanted to speak before there If two other people want to speak, okay. Who would like to come first?
Uh you you go first. I'll go last. Okay, no worries.
Well you won't be last because the attorney for the other side will be last.
Okay,
it's just
Good afternoon. I was sworn in. Uh my name is Fred Byrd, [address removed]. Okay. Um my wife and I live on the corner of Hadlock in Elkmont Lane. We'll live there since nineteen eighty five. And I'm not even sure really where to start. Talking about code enforcement a moment ago. Have you guys done any research on this? Code enforcement basically lived. out there in this area from all the problems we had with the prior baseball ranch. They came out when
they were operating illegally, they were asked to stop. They continued. They're asked to stop. They continued. There were numerous violations. I don't I I'm assuming you guys saw all that. I'm not quite sure why we're talking about code enforcement, because code enforcement was out there and it didn't stop 'em before. So I I that that part I just really don't understand. And as far as fixing the road. We own five we have five acres that are all usable. We're
right in the middle, 660 foot of Hadlock Drive. We get 15 foot on the easement. Technically that's our property. I don't want Mr. Pryor fixing that road. The reason being is before, per Code Enforcement's request, mister Dion and myself fixed All along our part of the road. And The code enforcement asked us to do that to keep the peace, and we did. It lasted about four or five days. Continued to drive up and down the road fast.
I've got pictures of my grass here, even when their road was fixed, they drove in my grass in the part of the easement to tear it up. Now, what you were talking about, if there's two cars coming, if two cars have to go by or two horse trailers, that's fine. I have no issue with that. But when somebody does it intentionally, stops their truck, honks the horn, and I won't use the the gesture that was used to get my attention, but you you can only imagine, and spin out in the grass to try to get my attention. That's what we've been putting up with. As
we continue to talk about them doing all this, they were denied before. And the question was asked if he's allowed four people Who's going to monitor that? Nope. We're we're gonna be back to what we were doing before. Calling code enforcement, having code enforcement go out there, it's gonna be the circle, the tail wag of the dog like it was before. I I I don't I don't understand Exactly where we're going with all this. And as far as their five acres, all
five acres of their property is not usable. Half of it's back in a cypress head and part of it's a pond. So, you know, we're talking about usable five acres on their property. I'm not sure if anybody's been out there took a take a look at it, but it's not all five acres is not usable.
Dust. Can I I've got some pictures to show where our house is in relationship to these how do how do I how do I show that to you? Can you receive
even file them?
Okay, who do I give them to?
Bath them right over here. Yeah, we motion to resume file. Motion and a second. Do we have a second? A second. Any further further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
Girls are gonna need a copy too over there.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thank you, sir.
Okay. So as you as you can see looking at this My house is there to the left. It's not it's not a great picture, but you can at least get an idea how close our house is to the easement. And what Ms. Dion was talking about before, when it's dry and the amount of traffic they came by, if we leave our bedroom window open, our bedroom is covered with dust. And I asked Mr. Pryor, you know, can you guys please slow down? Once again, I won't repeat the language that was used. We would
have to stand out there or their hose. wet the easement down or put the sprinkler to keep the dust from coming in our house. Now as far as the people coming in and out. You know, I I'd ask them not I I love baseball. I grew up playing baseball. I coached baseball. I told Mr. Pryor that when he moved out there. I love baseball. I have nothing against baseball. I think it's great for kids. Teaches them numerous things. There's a proper place for it. This is an equine community. Like I said, we've been there since 1985. It's not
a road. This was a cow this was a cow pasture when we moved out there. And it was a dirt road that over the years we brought in fill, shell dirt, and whatever and build it up. And there's always been common courtesy. When there's two people coming, you stop. That bridge that we're talking about, three culverts that's been built over the years. Everybody else, when there's a car coming, you stop. Numerous times I've been going over the bridge with my granddaughter in the car or my wife with me and the people coming in go
to the baseball school still try to come over the bridge at the same time. And you try to explain to them what's going on. They don't want to hear it. Everybody else, when they see a car coming or a horse trailer coming, you stop, you pull off the side, you let them go by. They don't understand that. Tried explain that to him and his combat was, You don't own the road. You're not the road sheriff. You can't tell me what to do. I said, Well, you're right, I can't. Just I'm trying to ask you for a little bit of common courtesy out here. All I'm trying to get a point across is what we've put up with. and
what w where this is going. It's not It's not as cut and dry as everybody thinks this is. Yeah, th the the numerous pictures that I've got here, if you'll see tire tracks. In the easement here. Uh that's that's where Mr. Pryor has gone on my part of the easement on the grass when it's wet. sat there, honked the horn for me to come outside and and spun spun the tires on these. But it's not somebody going moving out of the way but somebody coming. He does it intentionally. Well I I I think I pretty
much
Mr. Chairman time.
Okay. I cover it. Everything you said. All right. Is there any questions? Do we have any questions from up here?
Oh d I just wanna I wanna see one thing. So Six hundred and sixty feet of that easement, fifteen foot in is mine. We're talking about having Mr. Pryor improve the road. That's that's my road. How can Mr. Pryor improve my road? I don't understand that. Well I
don't know
what that's that's a legal issue between you and Mr. Pryor.
I I own the road. I'm supposed to maintain it. The easement says all I have to provide is is a legal uh uh a way in and out, which there is a way in and out. If he wants to fix the road, you guys are talking about letting him put fill in there or whatever. Not on mine, he can go up to the front. So, where the where the horse corones and there's holes that deep up there.
Condition four requires them to improve the road. If you think that he doesn't have the legal right to improve it, that's up to you to take him to court and say you don't have the right to improve it. If he can't comply with that condition, his his special exception presumably would get revoked. So if you don't think he has the legal legal right he's represented to staff that he has the legal right to improve that to comply with condition four.
How would he have a legal right to improve my road?
It it gets to
my property.
And I don't know the scope of your easement. I don't have your easement in front of me, but there could be a common law right to improve the easement. Okay Sir, are you a lawyer? Nope. Okay. So Why don't you let the lawyers resolve that? If you think he doesn't have the legal right to pro to improve it, then he can't comply with the law.
So he's gonna cost him more money and more time away from work.
Well typically eas easement are provided in these types of circumstances so that everybody can access their property.
You know, you don't own all the rights to that property. That's why it's an easement. That's why I'm not sure. The power company has an easement. Around properties, 'cause so they can get on that property. You may not want 'em there, but they need to get there. Mm-hmm. It's just like everybody has a right to get to their property. So This easement You know, every every property has what's called a bundle of rights. But y you may not own all those bundles because some of it might be an easement. which gives somebody else certain rights. And
I think what David is saying is that We we aren't attorneys. We we're not gonna decide whether you have those rights or they have those rights. That's something that somebody else has to decide. All we can do is say, if you wanna use this facility, this is what you have to do.
Can I say one more thing about these men? So we've been out there since eighty five. Mr. Wells is gonna get up and speak now. And Mr. Dion and myself over the years with a couple other people, we've worked on that easement, we've filled it in, we've we've had it filled in, rebuilt, or whatever. Yeah. We've all been very courteous and the main reason I don't want that easement smooth is the amount of traffic and the speed that his people use, including himself driving up and down that road. That's my concern. Yeah. If he if he if he has the
you're you're right. I d I don't do this for a living, I apologize. I sell paper for a living. This is totally out of my element. But I'm just trying to use what I've experienced in the past. When we had that easement easement so it was nice and smooth. 30, 40 miles an hour down easement. And that's when he would tell me, You don't own this, you can't tell me what to do. So you're exactly right, I can't. I can just ask you, please, please slow down. That's m that's my concern about having all those holes filled in out there. Because I I it's happened before since he's been out there since two thousand sixteen. We've
filled those holes in numerous times. Right now. Hits the holes and he bounces. I mean that's his that's his concern, not mine. But if that road is smooth, we're gonna have people doing thirty, four, thirty miles an hour down that little easement. It's not safe. Like I said, they've got horses, we've got a granddaughter, there's there's there's animals out there, there's dogs and cats. It's not that type of, it's not a subdivision, it's not a paved road.
Well the the Chairman just asked me whether we can require speed bumps. I I would say Speed I didn't say speed bumps. I asked him the question. So legally You could, but the issue is that Condition four, as proposed by the applicant, does not allow them to pave it, so I don't Uh it maybe of a practical problem and it's kind of an engineering question. Can you in s even install Speed bumps on a dirt road and I'll ask staff to Do you know the answer to that?
On a dirt road when it's beam bumped.
Mm-hmm.
They're called potholes. Well,
yeah. What I yeah. I think we we've given you your allotted time, so we'll try to answer some of your questions. Thank you. I think what I guess what my question is is that There's no reason why the surface has to be flat. Is that correct?
Well what you could you in theory if if you don't want the road If you want it to remain bumpy, then you could just not impose condition four. Condition four says But they will Stabilize the road, compact it. And and I guess all that we'll address If they comply with condition four, would the road be smooth?
Will Penn. Uh P E current planning? Will it be smooth? Well if you compact it to the standards that specify here from D O T It more likely will be smooth. If you could however it is a dirt road. So putting speed bump there also probably won't stay there because it's subject to movement.
Highly likely. Yes. So
You could put a concrete speed bump there, even on a dirt road though, right?
Pouring curb and d you know, and so forth and dirt and so forth. But I mean I've actually driven out there myself on a different matter to that site and It is bumpy. I mean at a sedan com you know and So I mean it's i it is accessible. And I I also witnessed uh Horse trailer was being pulled out there too. And they were right over it. Um I wasn't going excessive speed, um Because there were some bumps through the road and they were so So It
is accessible as it is in this c current condition.
Is it accessible to emergency vehicles in its current condition?
When I was out there a year and a half ago at that time, yes, I would say yes.
Mm-hmm. So I I think ch Mr Chair to answer your question, if you want if the Planning Commission wanted the road to stay in its existing condition then you would
Mm-hmm.
Presumably strike condition four.
I don't know if the applicant is a good idea.
So they'd still be able to use it even if they didn't Condition four.
Well I think staff was intending to impose condition four so that it would be more passable to the patrons of the school. But Presumably if you don't have a want it to be that passable, I guess you could strike condition four.
Okay. They still have to comply with condition five, which makes they have to make it accessible to emergency vehicles, but I don't I think emergency vehicles can get through on roads that Normal cars can not. Right.
Yeah. I have a question there's somebody for staff or I don't know if it's for you will or not, but Uh, maybe my recollection was wrong, but I thought condition four came out of the last time you guys were here asking for more people because the owners were worried that the additional traffic was gonna degrade the road, so they wanted you guys to may be responsible for maintenance of the road. Is that not true?
No.
Okay. No. Uh I apologize. I misunderstood.
Sorry you're asking now, aren't you?
My understanding of condition four is that it was staff's attempt to make the road more passable. Is that accurate, Will? That's
accurate.
Okay. Well thank you, Will. I appreciate it. Any questions for Will? Hopefully. Okay.
All right. Barbara, I think. Oh it's oh yeah. I forgot ya.
I would like to say something.
Okay. Can you can everyone hear me now? My name is Dan Wells. I live at [address removed]. Okay? I've lived there since 1987. The driveway that we're discussing is a little over half a mile long. To clear what to clear up the right-of-way issue. at the front portion of this road The w the easement is seventy feet. on the rest of it, all the way back to my house,
is thirty feet. Not fifteen. Okay. Now I have teachers too. I don't have enough for everybody. But I have pictures that I took this morning. Okay. That shows that my road and that my thirty foot easement has now been restricted to fifteen feet because somebody wanted to put cement blocks on the road. so that I can't use the thirty
feet. So therefore, some of the easement has to be you have to drive on the grass, on friends, okay? Move your
seven power. Pardon me? me?
Who do you want me to give them to?
Uh why don't you start down there? We'll pass them down.
I have a second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Carries?
All right. So who put the cement blocks on your road?
Uh I think Andy Dem Dion, Andy and Amanda. They blocked the easement because they didn't want us using the thirty feet. Okay.
Uh my deed. Okay, which shows what my easement is. uh on mine. And I also have the deed for The one down in front that shows the seventy foot easement. Okay. So I don't know where we're getting with this. only fifteen feet access. We're nines. Okay. Do you want those? Uh those papers to show the easement, do you need that?
If you want us to receive a file then, that's fine.
It's up to you. We're happy to do it if you'd like to res give it to us.
Pardon me?
It's up to you. If you'd like us to receive them, we will.
Sure, you can so that way you can see the same thing that everyone else is looking at.
Okay.
Let me find it. Mike,
motion. Move to receive and phone. Do I have a second?
There's a front and back, a front and back. All in favor? On one of them, okay.
Okay, uh just want you to focus in here now and try to let us know what it is your point you're I wanted to make here for us.
Okay.
The road that was that's there now. Okay. I built that road. I built it in two thousand and two. I paid twelve thousand dollars. To put the asphalt down on this road. because it was all mud and nobody could get access. Nobody could get everybody had to park up front. and then walk back to their house because it was strictly mud, water mud. Okay? So I worked for an asphalt company. uh as electrician
and so they gave me a deal on some rap. So I had twenty eight trucks brought out. And I made this road so everybody there. had access to this road. Okay? Now Fred and Gail, they were, you know, great people. They gave me money. They gave me a little over a thousand dollars as what they thought was their share, which was good. They offered me more and I refused it. Uh Andy and Amanda,
I think, gave me $200. and they were always gonna give me more. But it it never did come.
So Sir, could you focus on what your position is about the school? 'Cause you're you're gonna run out of time here. So what is your position about the school and whether they
should or should not improve the road? Okay, the school okay. I have seven children. Andy and And Andy and and uh uh Amanda had two children. The birds had two children. We all All our kids went out to the butt down to the bus stop, went to school, used that road. We all had pets. There was never any child any danger, in any kind of danger. No pet ever got hit or run over. Uh so as far as uh any kind of animal being in
jeopardy or any any person, any kid being in jeopardy, is no, that's ludicrous. Yeah, it's it's no. I've I've been associated with the uh Quail Hollow, Weightman, and Wesley Chapel School.
Okay, sir. But what is your position about these the The baseball school that's before us today. What's your position on that?
Are you pro or against?
Uh I I'm I'm anything that helps kids. I don't care if it's a baseball or cheerleading or what it is. I don't care. I'm for anything that helps kids. Okay.
Great.
So I I'm for anything that helps kids.
Okay.
Okay? I don't have anything against The Dionge are the birds. I get along fine with 'em. As far as I know. Maybe not after today, but
So you're in favor of the special exception approval then? Pardon me? So you're in favor of the special exception approval? Sure. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Any questions?
Is that it? You gonna fix my road now?
Yeah they're gonna be out there and pave it tomorrow.
Okay, yeah, another thing too. You mentioned something about speed bumps, okay? If you fix that road uh And you put it Well, if you put speed bumps on it on the right now, any kind of speed bumps, it's gonna move. As soon as it rains, it's gonna move. Okay? It's tearing up it'll tear up my vehicles, okay? The holes that's there now are tearing up my vehicles, okay? And I've already checked and I have the legal right to grade that road if I want to. Which I have. Okay. And I will if I need to.
Well thank you very much. I appreciate you. And I think we had one more uh raising her hand in earnest.
You could have your name and address, please. And you've been sworn?
No, I have not.
Oh okay, then let's get just warned.
Okay.
You swear affirm the testimony you're about to give to the teacher.
Yes.
Okay, and your name and address?
My name is Caitlin Smith and I live at two nine or I don't live that we're building a house right now currently on the road. Um our new address is [address removed]. and we will be residing out there come August of this year. Um
I own a part of that easement and I am I do not um consent to any improvements being done. And if that's something that has to be done in order for the special exception to be approved and for him to to start operating, I do not consent that and I will not be allowing that. So if that's something that you guys should consider um in order to approve that special acception, I would implore you to visit that. Well
I think uh I well just to clarify that I think that our our attorney has already said that that's a legal issue, something that we can't decide. Right. And we're not gonna make that decision here.
The county's conditions require is for the school to make improvements to the road if the Planning Commission imposes those conditions. They do not address whether he has the private right to do so or not.
And that's fine. Um and it shouldn't be up to that's
up to a judge to decide.
Right. It shouldn't be up to us to file a lawsuit and we shouldn't be litigating that about that as well, cross board.
Um the applicant has asserted he has the right to improve the road. In fact,
he does have that right?
I don't know if he does. Right.
The applicant
has asserted he has the right to improve it. One of his neighbors just stood up and said he has the right to improve it. I don't know the answer to that question. That's what I'm bringing up.
germane to
what's not germane to what the county will or will not impose. The county's just gonna say do you or do you not have to improve it? If he doesn't have the right to improve it, then he can't comply with the condition.
Correct. Um Also, um another thing to think about too is I also grew up out there. I lived out there my whole entire life. I've never seen as much traffic as I have out there since Mr. and Mrs. Pryor have moved out there. And um to just reiterate, um, we were in the middle of that contract or that house and we did find out about the situation that was at hand. Um this, this is why we're all here today. Um
It is a huge burden on our easement. We have all collectively come together throughout the years, as Dan Wells mentioned, to go ahead and try and prove that road. I know Dan Wells has spent a lot of money, so has Fred and Gail and the other people that live out there that aren't even here today. There were speed bumps put up and they were taken out. Um that is not something that um was Uh.
Yes, they were done with asphalt millings and they were removed with a tractor. Um To also build on that. Um, so the road is passable, yes. Now a portion of that road that you saw with the bridge, that is a very small portion of that road. And that road is paved after that bridge up until the veterinary horse farm that also does lessons in that you're saying that um, you know, I I understand where you're coming from when it comes to allowing people to have a business and um um in
and out and lessons and and taking money for that. They have improved that portion of the road. They have allowed that along with the neighbors. It's paved up until that point. Beyond that point, it is not passable for two cars. One person stops at the top of the horse barn and the other person drives about a third of a mile down the road to let the other person by. Once that person passes, then the other person goes. That's not always the case when it comes to people that are going to the baseball ranch. Allowing that passage. So while you're
looking at a very small part, I also encourage you guys to take a look at for yourself and ask yourself the question of if you lived here, would you be okay with that traffic? Because these are the quality of life that you're affecting of other people with horses. And when that when you go into that, you're also talking about safety. So if I were to be riding at a point in time where Mr. Mr. and Mrs. Pryor were having a big baseball ranch operation going on and in and out, say four cars back and forth. And that prevented passage from an EMT
getting to me. and something happened beyond that point. are they are they willing to take on that responsibility? That's a huge concern of mine, especially having a small child out there. I'm I'm not it doesn't sit well with me because it is an equine community and it has been that way since the implementation of the baseball ranch that has been operating up until today.
Uh that's that's your time limit. Any questions from up here?
Yeah. I appreciate those points, although they have been made before, but I understand your passion. Thank you.
Can I say something more about
No sir. I'm sorry. We only get one bite at the apple here. We'd be here all night.
Go ahead, Barbara. Sorry.
Barbara Willheight 2523 permit place. So a lot said there. Wow. You know, my clients didn't put speed bumps on, then the tractor took them down. There's a lot of other things there, but I think you've got the basics of it that there is a 30-foot easement, there's an ingress egress easement. My client feels that he can make improvements and maintain that easement just like Mr. Wells. Um and I think David's positions or would be the same positions that I would say if I was sitting there. When There was a special exception before the Planning Commission before.
It was for twenty four at a time.
The condition that staff recommended approval of was for four at a time. But it didn't have any duration of lesson times and it didn't have any maximums. So staffs in support of four people at a time and you can have as many you know, there's not a maximum. I suggested and worked with my client and working with the neighbors, let's put a maximum on it. And so if you think about an a Phi period, and you all mentioned this It's in a five hour block of time If
you do four students at a time, and that's a maximum, you've got five groups coming in. And it's a maximum of four. So it's not this repetitive back and forth because we wrote conditions so it's not like that. So In writing the conditions to make sure that we had some clarity and also Remember that he does one-on-one lessons and group lessons. So we'll always continue to do there's only one Mr. Pryor. Uh he's qu quite a acclaimed in in what he
does. And so he'll be doing one on one lessons. In group lessons they may be up to four, they may be two, pitcher catcher. So what the intensity that you're hearing is is is not what in reality will occur. What I did was worked with I wanted to make sure as I always do and and when you do a special exception um the special exception is the purpose of that is to look at the site and and work on
conditions. It's not a conditional use, it's not a rezoning. It's already saying This is a compatible use, but let's look at the as from a use to use standpoint. single family to the the proposed special exception use, but let's look at the site and let's work on conditions. So that's what this effort's been about with staff and even doing it more so than what what was done. And I even went farther than staff's recommendation. For example, if you look at condition number nine
There was an issue of barriers and how to do that. And I said look
Staff's not in the barrier business, this planning commission's not in the barrier business, I'm not in the barrier business. So I wrote a s a strict standard there saying the performance standard that he asked to achieve is no balls or objects get out of his property. Very clear. So we don't have to debate if the barriers he has today that he intends to use are good enough, he'll have to change that. He'll have to change his barriers. So I, even though staff support a lesser standard, I wrote in an effort to work with the neighbors, which I always do, and we continued
it two weeks to this point, was continued last time to this point. We weren't able to work out the fundamental issue of they just don't want the use. But I I see their, you know, we work together on conditions, which I think in the in the end will be better for all because they'll be clearer. So um So that's how that one works. The we wrote condition number one to be even more specific and to even restrict the property even further from to say only a maximum of twenty over that the period of time. The condition
regarding the roads, staff wrote that condition and it's their specificity and standards. So that was a condition that staff was recommending and we're in agreement with.
And so I can go through them each by you know one by one, but I think we've you know we've worked hard to write conditions, we've limited the use. I limited it again this week in working with the neighbors, even beyond what staff had recommended to you. We've got clear conditions about lighting, we've got clear conditions about hours of operation, noise, and you know I I heard the the baseball cracking noise, but we've had this before, right? It's agricultural area, people are shooting, people are doing having their horses. There's a lot going on in that area. Um
so I don't think it's again, I don't think it's out of um out of compliance or not compatible with the area.
Spidella both told you that, so With that, if you have any further questions or anything about the conditions, anything further you could think we could possibly do, glad to uh entertain that.
Barbara, would you have any objection to the removal of the fourth condition?
No, we would not.
Well I need to ask staff the same question. So If condition four were removed And the road stayed in its
But condition five stayed in other words it still had to be passable to emergency vehicles. Would you still support the application?
I guess that's a Will and Denise question.
Uh 'cause the reason I said asked that question is because Will said before that He thought an emergency vehicle could get through there.
Right. But That's different than sixty-seven or forty or fifty, whatever number of students it is. And so my question to staff is Would you still support the special exception if condition four were removed?
Well I mean this is a road that always gonna require periodic maintenance regardless obviously because you have traffic going back and forth. Um So maintenance is always gonna be required, I feel. So removing this, I mean it doesn't take away that it doesn't need to be maintained for proper traffic circulation. So
Right, but it's a private road. So I'm saying I don't have a problem with removing that but clearly. But for condition four, I don't know that they would have any legal obligation this school would not have any legal obligation to do anything other than Make it possible to emergency vehicles. Correct. So but Would staff still be okay with this number of students? If there's no improvements to the road other than making it possible to emergency vehicles.
I would uh I would not have any objection. That's correct.
So can I ask a question there? So w what do you do? You wait until there's an emergency and the ambulance can't get through and that's when you find out it's not passable?
Well so Yeah, I mean.
Because condition four says that they've got to regularly maintain it, which would lead you to the assumption that at any given time it's passable to emergency vehicles. So I I'm just a little concerned there that if you remove it
I'm not telling the Planning Commission to remove Commission four. I wanna be clear about that. What I'm saying I w I wanna know whether staff would still recommend approval of the app of the special exception. if condition four was removed because earlier they testified that if they complied with good condition four it would be sufficient for sixty seven students. So I wanna know if condition four is removed, whether they still are okay approving sixty seven students out there. And what I'm hearing is yes. I'm not telling you to remove condition four. I don't disagree with what you said. I'm just I want
to make sure they would still recommend approval if it was removed.
Well I think in order to accommodate Mike's concern, and I think it's everybody's concern. Is uh we could still require the
The
applicant to be responsible to maintain it. Uh to accommodate emergency vehicles.
I'm actually surprised that some of the residents I'm actually surprised some of the residents want condition four removed because What I heard is they were having a hard time coming up with money to do it. So I would think they'd actually want the school to be re financially responsible for Yeah, that's what I remember from the last time. That kinda caught me off guard and that's probably why Mr. Girardi asked his question, which is now you've got somebody financially on the hook to do it. Why why would you object to that? But They are objecting, so
Okay, well that was just a suggestion. David,
can you clarify where the sixty-seven's coming from? I'm sorry, that keeps being said, so I think
Well uh that was the I didn't med Saint staff came up with that number. The opponents said that it would generate sixty seven troops.
Yeah. That's not what are you stating are you stating on the document that was not accepted into record? Because that's not what it's like.
Sixty-six,
sorry. 66 is for the single family home per week. That's what the 66 is. Not per day. 66 for their house generates 66 trips a week.
Okay.
We're we're splitting hairs here, but regardless staff has testified that With or without condition four, you believe this site is sufficient for the number of students this school will generate?
Yes. That's
what you're telling me?
Yes, that's what we're saying. Okay.
Okay, then I'm gonna ask the staff then how how do you how do you justify the removal of of four and still being in compliant with number five?
Well I guess it's on the premise that it's gonna be continued to be maintained as it is today for traffic circulation. So there is the maintenance aspect of it is still remaining, it's my understanding. Just because removing it
Mainten aspect has always been there. We will continue to have that maintenance.
Yeah.
No, it's a private.
So how do you assure that that's being done?
This is I I assume that's part
Let me try to answer the question for a way because I think I know the answer. Um My understanding is that the emergency vehicles Do not need it stabilized to the same standard as a normal car would. I mean there tend to be heavier duty vehicles and they can pass on a road that maybe the average citizen could not. So I don't think I think Four is intended in my the way I'm reading four is That's to make the road passable to the average driver.
Right. Five is In the event of emergency a fire truck can get through there. Which My understanding is that fire trucks They plow through a lot of stuff that the normal driver Would not
do.
But they're also heavier vehicles that can get stuck too. And I remember a couple of instances when I was on a county commission that there was problems in my district because of that.
Not disagreeing with you, but if that's your concern then you should require condition four. That's within your problem. If you want to require condition four, the applicant saying they're in agreement with condition four. Staff is recommending condition four. So With that That's really up to the planning commission.
Well Mike, you remember when we were kids we always used to take the Volkswagens out into the groves because they had the motor in the back. Yeah, they never got stuck. Where the wet where they where the weight was and they didn't get stuck and I think That's what David's alluding to. This is a heavier vehicle. They have dual tires on them, so I think they can get what he's saying is they can get through more than an average car could get
Excuse me.
Yes you are. Yeah, okay. And excuse me, you're not allowed you can't allow you're not allowed to speak. I'm sorry, you're gonna have to sit down. This
has to do with the
No you're gonna have to sit down, I'm sorry.
Okay.
All right, I apologize, but that's just the way it goes. If we had everybody doing that, you couldn't do it.
Wrong about the amulet channel.
Okay, good.
You got it in. Can I ask a quick question? Because I never got it answered before. I want to go back to item four in the description about the surrounding area. It indicated and I think one person already alluded to the fact Uh that there's at least a veterinarian practice going on in this area. Is there a horse riding school there? in that area. So there are these things there. So there are some schools there already. Yeah. Did they receive the same Scrutiny as what
we're currently going through? You don't have to answer that question because I don't don't expect to. But that that's the dilemma I see. You you say yes, you can direct run these schools here, and we've never heard about the impact that it's made on the community, nor have the residents, nor has anybody, to my knowledge. And yet over here we're saying uh contemplating approving or denying another request. So help clarify that for me if you could. I'd appreciate that.
Didn't you see you?
Yeah, I'm gonna answer the question. I just wanted to show you the aerial while the question is answered and I apologize for that.
So the answer is as you get to the property off of Olds Pasco Road, there is a riding stable. It's a very large piece of property. It's actually called Sarah Russell riding stables. So there's riding stables. I'll show you.
Okay.
I wanna get to the aerial that shows that.
I'm not sure if you're seeing that on your screen as well. But as you um
This parcel right here, these are writing stables. It's a very large piece of property. And there's also as stated in your agenda memo, there's also an equine sports medicine veterinarian as well. So there's those agricultural activities and uses that do generate trips as well. So On that same Mm-mm. Road.
How many?
How many stables does she have?
I will see if I can get you that answer.
Okay. How how many are enrolled in the the writing school itself, students? Five, ten, twenty.
Barbara, while we're waiting for that answer, is there anything you have to add to the
Well I have a question for Barbara and her comment? So
David.
So Barbara, when I asked Steph earlier whether it was possible to put speed bumps on a dirt road, I thought the answer was no, but then I heard Somebody testified that in fact one was installed. with asphalt millings. Um
And I'm not sure what the Planning Commission wants to do with this, but if the Planning Commission were to require speed bumps be installed as part of condition four, is that something that you and your client would be willing to do?
Hold on, let me confer. Okay.
Well,
Denise is looking, let me convert.
The ambulance won't come down the road. You have a broken bone like my daughter did, they transport them out to have it.
I'll ask the jury to disregard that statement.
My daughter's iron.
Sir you're gonna the bail is coming up and he's gonna escort you out if you keep talking.
Gonna leave anyway.
Okay. Okay.
And then also usually it's taken up all the time to do
If the Planning Commission wanted to impose that requirement, my client would comply. Don't know what would happen with them with the neighbors, but we would you know we want to comply. So
Okay. Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Barbara, one more thing, just for clarity. I'm slow today, I apologize. Can you clarify what condition four says? I mean what portion are is the applicant responsible to maintain?
Let me look at it here.
It just says that we need to make sure that it's a the standard is a safe and passable condition by providing regular maintenance and it's got a specification there.
It was that is that all of Hadlock Road and Elkmont Lane? Is that just Elkmont Lane? Lane? What what
portion of the
road?
It is it is from where where it's paved to their entrance, that's what you're seeing graphically that's what those numbers are. So when you come off Pasco Road, it has a section that's paved and then it it ends. And where it ends to the client's property is where you see that. That's what that description is there.
So you're saying it's basically the dirt portion of the road? Right.
Okay.
Denise, if you can't find the exact numbers it's fine. It's already been identified the fact that there is a school there. There are there's a veterinarian practice going on so we know traffic is coming and going. So
you clarify that. I have a flyer here from a fall festival for North Star Stables. You know, and November twenty ninth and and they have you know, people coming in and to fall festivals and camps and and they're doing well beyond what you know the individual private lessons that are proposed on the same prior
same uh
the same entrance. Same
entrance and okay, thank you. Okay, you answered that. It that you cleared that up for me. Thank you. Okay.
Okay.
Anything uh any qu uh other questions from up here, Roberto, Mike, anybody?
Can I do one thing? I'm so sorry. I made myself a note and then I forgot and I even start it. We need to receive and file the PowerPoint. You don't have a paper one, but we've already given it to the clerk, and so it needs to be received and filed so they can officially keep it.
Okay. We have a motion to receive and file, do we? So moved. Do we have a second?
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Aye.
Hi.
Host? Motion carries. Okay, so uh I think we've had all the information. Uh If there are no other questions, let's uh let's have a motion.
to uh approve uh staff's recommendation or modify it in some way.
I'll go ahead and make the motion to approve with uh staff mod with the modification with the removal of uh condition number four. Um That's
And I'll say my remarks if it's second or not. We
have a motion. Do we have a second?
Anybody have a second?
Okay, die for lack of a mo uh la lack of a second. Any any other motion?
We have no other motion. Can we have a little discussion? discussion?
Sure.
Um you know when I look at the the code regarding agricultural districts And I'm struggling with this one. I'll I'll be the first one to admit here. Um
agricultural district is to preserve the rural and open characteristics of land in the county. I mean that's what it's there to do. These lands are agricultural lands. Um They're obviously all the uses around everything is agricultural. Um i it's being used for what I believe the uh standards were put in place for them to do, uh, with the the n the nature of the the horse community
that seems to be there. So on the surface I think, you know, that this School's a little bit out of place. Mm. Um I see in the special exceptions obviously it says in there that private schools are allowed. I'm I'm not convinced though that that was the intent of having a baseball camp school there. It's not what I think of when I think of a of a private school. Um And
I have a I have a real struggle with the with the conditional uses that we put on these uh special exemptions because there is no mechanism and you can say code enforcement all day long, but th but there is no mechanism to enforce these things unless it really gets to a fevered pitch. And so it it I pause when I see these things because I think it's just gonna create a bigger mess. than than what it's use used for. And so the special exemptions I
I raised to a pretty high level bar to get over. And I'm not convinced that this one really gets over that bar in my own mind. Um You know, but I hear and Mr. Hansel I think did a very good job in bringing out that there is another school in the area, although it is an agricultural school and it fits into the intent of what the zoning standard is. And I think that that
that is a better a better use for that. Now, maybe they need a special exception.
I don't know. That's up I guess maybe the staff I'm seeing some some faces over there that I don't know if that's an agreement or disagreement, but Yeah. So I don't know. I'm I'm um I'm not strong on either side of this thing, but I don't really see a clear reason to grant the request.
Well the only thing I can add to it in terms of the The teaching element is the And
schools throughout the county are It can certainly be in agricultural zones. Yeah, no matter what they teach, there's still schools. And this is a this is a type of school. And uh I think Richard. Well also Verify that we Put schools in agricultural zones.
We do put schools in agricultural zones. The only thing I'm having to trouble with is it's not I mean it's a business more than anything else. And I was gonna make a mention that It's not a s it's not a school by its school standards and I'm not sure how it's classified if it's just named a school, but schools are allowed in any land use with the exception of I think industrial, if I'm not mistaken. But um it just the idea of a school, I'd I really have trouble with that 'cause it's not a in a In a way it's educational, but it's a business more than anything else. So I don't know if it's a commercial entity or what it
is, but It's not so much as a school.
I'd like to just make a quick comment. I think I've said this before. I think this piece of property is really not five acres. It's kind of like taking you know, ten pounds of sugar and putting in a five pound bag is just not large enough. And in the past I've said that. And they indicated that. And that's the reason is why I've always voted no on this one. However, there is a condition here that requires you know, you use the term business. Well if you're teaching writing lessons over there, that's a business. And, you know, you can't say
yes to w well, it is. It's a business. Those people don't give free writing lessons. They charge a fee. That's the bottom line. We used camps. You have a you have uh Let me take these off. Uh f uh facilities. It says they uh writing lessons and camps. Doesn't say it's a writing school camp, it's a camp. So you you're using terminology for both and What I always look at is one of Property rights. Two is being
fair and equitable. And I'm kinda like many on this board here, you know. This is not this is questionable in this particular area whether or not this is the right type of
business to run in this ty type of area. You do have a horse committee there. And when I lived up in Lexington, Kentucky, I love horses. And people up there have horse farms. And so I can identify with that, but also I can identify the fact that, you know, you have a uh Uh uh wording here that you are already have schools there. So that was the dilemma on my part. So That's all I really have to say on this whole matter. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman Chairman Mariano S Pito's planning development. On on the issue of the business on the on the discussion points regarding being a business. I would argue that private schools can operate as businesses as well. Right. The Land Development Code is allowing for private schools within the zoning districts via the special exception. In this case
Made the consideration that this was a specialty s school. that would provide baseball and softball lessons.
Okay,
thank you
very much. Appreciate that.
So on the on that point, uh I don't read where it says specialty schools. I mean if you're classifying as a specialty school, I don't see that. S to try to move this thing along since the first motion failed for lack of a second. I'll just try to keep this thing moving along so I I'll move that we deny the request. I second that.
The motion maker is gonna have to say which of the special exception criteria they did not meet. So You want you to pull those up so you can clarify the right-of-way. So let's they're listed. Staff, can you put them up on the L Mode?
I
mean
looking at the special exceptions. Um
The characteristic of of the land use is agricultural, so I don't believe it meets that characteristic.
Okay, well let let's let Denise put up the criteria so you can
If it's easier, I'll do it this way.
Let me see, is it is it in the agenda memo? On the back of the agenda memo? Yes. Oh all right. Awesome.
It's not in the agenda memo.
It's a it's an attachment to the agenda memo. It's like attachment maybe five or four.
Uh signature sheet?
Yes, that's correct.
Can I ask for a point of order? Since the motion did not pass, does that Not indicate that we've denied this request?
No.
No, no.
Because you made a motion to approve it with removal of condition four. Okay.
We just didn't get a
second for that. We don't we didn't get a second for the motion and we don't know how the rest is
Planning Commission Phil.
So I'll claim number one and two. A jar. The proposed use is not consistent with the goals, objectives, policies adopted comp plan. Uh the proposed use Uh will create excess increased traffic or perk congestion. Otherwise affect public safety?
So is it because of the The roadway access? Is that your
I think all the testimony about the The road issues leads to that one.
Well if okay, so
if you're
as
well.
So so I don't have an I think the testimony you heard today could support two and three. My only concern about one is Unless staff can identify a specific comp plan policy that it's Or you can identify a specific component policy that it's inconsistent with I'm not real comfortable with you relying on that. So is the land code part of the comp plan? The Zoning code is not.
Okay.
Now there are compatibility policies in our comp plan. I don't know if staff has as readily available that they could Call them up, but if you don't feel it's compatible using that compatibility policy. That could be a grounds, but staff would have to pull it up and say yes you agree that it's not consistent with that policy. So staff, can you pull that up?
I
Yeah, I will do that. Um I also do want to mention that in your findings of fact, I mean this is not Th this is not a precedent. So the Planning Commission has approved another baseball and softball school actually about two miles or so from this parcel located to the west. I just wanted to mention that two miles uh southwest of this area, also in an AR agricultural residential district.
So is that in the agenda package?
It is. Yes. It's a finding of fact. It is finding a fact. Nine. Number nine, thank you.
So is your component argument that it's not compatible with the area? Is that your argument? Right. Okay, so we do have a compatibility policy in our comp plan if Denise could pull it up.
I wish this worked faster than that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, we can. Yeah. You just call for resess wallet.
While she's looking that up, we're gonna take a five minute recess.
Thank God.
Let's call the meeting back to order, please.
So I'll
Say that it is inconsistent with the Uh future land use one point one zero point one.
I think that's a good thing. Yeah, one point ten point one.
Yeah. The one
that's up on the screen. That one. Okay. Got it. And then as well as condition two and three.
So the motion on the floor is To deny because it's Does it meet criteria one, two, and three? And inconsistent with policy one point ten point one of the Feature Land Development C And that the motion you seconded?
Yes.
Yeah, you can
take discussion. So any further discussion on the motion to deny?
Okay, so let's have a roll call vote.
Michael Cox.
Uh yes.
Here Handle?
Yes.
Jamie Draardi?
Name.
Roberto size?
Yes.
And Chairman Charles Bray?
No.
The vote was three to two with Jamie Girardi and Chairman Charles Gray voting nay. Motion passes.
Okay, just to
clarify the motion.
So the motion was to deny the applic special exception application based on criteria one, two, and three, and specifically for criteria one inconsistency with policy FLU
Yeah. Any decision on the Planning Commission can be appealed to the Board of County Commissioners. So keep that in mind as you leave today. Thank you. Okay,
thank you, David.
Yeah.