CONDITIONAL USE REQUEST (CONSENT) – Jordanes Hyppolite - Residential Treatment and Care Facility in a R-2 Low Density Residential District – South Central Pasco County- On the South Side of Pomello Trace, Approximately 200 Feet East of Caroline Drive Extending Southerly to State Road 54 Memorandum PDD20-CU18

1:22:44Okay. So PC9 PDD 20CU18, it's a conditional use in the name of Jordans Hippolyte. It's for a residential treatment and care facility in an R2 low density residential district. It's located on in south-central Pasco County on the south side of Pomelo Trace, approximately 200 feet east of Caroline Drive, extending southerly to State Route 54. So the applicant is proposing a residential treatment and care facility based on the applicant's information

1:23:15provided in the narrative. for elderly care. So this is gonna be like similar to a ALF, ACLF, for a maximum of 30 residents. Um the applicant provides Yeah, it's it I I heard kind of in the background. Yeah it's a maximum of thirty residents I don't believe anybody thinks that or the agency for healthcare administration will license 30 residents out of that location, but it's a maximum. Access to the property is

1:23:45from Pomelo Trace, which is a county-maintained residential road with 60 feet of right-of-way. Um the uh we we did provide some examples of other similar, not in the area, similar residential treatment and care facilities that have been approved in uh residential districts. They're not near this area but just examples. Um Pomelo Trace and Caroline Drive, they are considered to be substandard roads. I drove by the location and um particularly

1:24:16Pul Pomelo is in pretty bad shape. Uh the applicant will be responsible to uh for improving Pomelo Trace and Caroline Drive to County Standards. On January 22nd, 2010, the owner-applicant had a pre-application meeting, so we went over all the requirements for preliminary site plan review on this parcel. I do want to go over the conditions because we do have to to strike out a portion of condition two. Um regarding that the facility is limited to

1:24:46the elderly even though that's what the applicant has stated. Um I think between now and the Board of County Commissioners, uh if this item moves forward Uh we'll look into uh putting together a better condition than limiting the age. That's probably not permissible under State and federal law. So we're gonna strike out uh condition two. It's going to just read: the conditional use shall not include substance abuse treatment. Um

1:25:17here for any questions. I know there's a lot of folks in the audience who would like to speak uh to this item. So um any questions you may have, I'm happy to answer those.

1:25:28Any questions from up here?

1:25:30I do, sir. Uh finding of facts uh number eight.

1:25:36Oh thank you.

1:25:37Uh you have a wrong thing.

1:25:38There's a mistake. It should be December fourteenth, twenty fourteen. I apologize for that. Thank you so much

1:25:44for

1:25:44bringing that up.

1:25:48conditional uses um both those parcels were in excess of two acres. So I I want to point that out to the board that You know, well over four times the size. So I don't really think they're really good comparisons, but

1:26:08I'd like to hear what the applicant has to say.

1:26:12Okay.

1:26:21Good afternoon, sir. Can you state your name and address, please?

1:26:24Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Jordan Hippolyte. Um address is um two nine four three six from Metro Trace. Uh we have proposed to um build a residential property there where we can help elderly. And really the maximum is thirty But his reality stake is gonna be twenty. So I just wanna point that out. And um My understanding there's some

1:26:54concern. I'd like to hear what uh the concerns are and then I can come back and Answer questions.

1:27:02Okay. Sounds good. Alright. So uh who among you wants to speak?

1:27:12Okay.

1:27:14Um, yeah. I wanna I wanna give everybody an opportunity to speak, but I would ask you that if you can, try not to say the same thing every time you come up so we don't, you know, go beyond the necessary time. So c come on up, state your name and address and state your concerns and uh Mr. Applicant will make lots of notes and answer the questions when he comes back up. Okay?

1:27:46You're the first victim.

1:27:48My name is Gardner Strasser. How do you do? I live at [address removed]. It's the first house on the left as you enter Caroline Drive. We've lived there for almost 30 years. We have a major concern with the traffic issues that would lead into the property. off of Carolina or off of State Road 54

1:28:14and also access to the property along Palmetto Drive there. Um The drainage issues there are considerable. The traffic issues are also a large problem. It is a county road. However um We do get a lot of access off of Tupper Road when Tupper Road floods. When Tupper Road floods, all the school buses, all the tow trucks, I mean all the dump

1:28:44trucks, all the people in the back. on the north uh west side of uh the subdivision come down Caroline Drive. It's quite a headache uh there during the day Uh flooding is a big issue in that area, especially since they uh reconstructed uh State Road 54. at the intersection there of 54 and Caroline Drive. That has considerable amount of flooding that has yet to

1:29:15be rectified by either the county or the state. And uh The uh the drainage issue uh for that pond there that's uh located there goes across the road. Uh it floods quite a bit and uh backs up in that drainage easement that's uh between the uh proposed property and uh Caroline Drive and uh it creates quite a

1:29:45problem during the daytime. Um there are no other facilities located in our subdivision like this. We don't oppose him building a piece of property there, building a house there, and living there. that would be uh quite acceptable. It's a residential area. We're quite quite proud of it. And we'd like to maintain it in that format. And I'm sure there's

1:30:16other people here that have other considerations. We do have a petition from the residents against this. There are approximately I think 90 people that have signed the petition and I'm sure that they would like to uh present that to the to the board. Do you have

1:30:36it with

1:30:36you? I do not have it. The people behind me may have it.

1:30:39Okay, they can submit it when they come up. That'll be fine. Okay. Yeah, when they come up, they'll they can submitted that that time.

1:30:45Right

1:30:45now? No, when when they come up.

1:30:49Yeah, they c they can bring it up at that time. Um again we would uh we would just have a lot of issues with the drainage problem, the traffic problem. um maintenance of Palmetto Drive and Caroline Drive because as indicated it's substandard and needs a lot of major uh uh work to uh maintain it. So thank you.

1:31:13Thank you. Thank you for coming.

1:31:17Yes, my things.

1:31:20Last name is Strasser, S-T-R-A-S-S-E-R, [address removed]. Thank you.

1:31:29See he was paying attention to that. the

1:31:32Yes.

1:31:33Thank you. Thank you.

1:31:38Okay, who's next?

1:31:52My name is Doug Clark. I live at [address removed], which is three houses down at the corner of the subdivision, the cul de sac. Um well I've lived there since 1992. My wife, three children. Um I'm glad to hear that the first condition is that there will be no Substance abuse, that was a big concern. But even 20 elderly care, how many nurses would be there? Every day. Where is the parking gonna be? The road itself,

1:32:22Palmello, is very short. And if you notice it's a It's called a sack at the end. So people actually come down, they do circles in the front of our lot, or they go out the other street. So taking care of a little part of the road is not gonna solve the road problem. Um adding extra the the garbage. Actually the um the county had some workers out there a few weeks ago to fix a couple spots. They fixed palmelo.

1:32:54So when they're at the end they said, oh if we have any um pavement left when we get done we'll come back and hit a couple spots on the cul-de-sac. But they said the biggest issue is the traffic. The dump trucks, the garbage men. So adding more traffic to that is just going to cause more problems. Um

1:33:14as you mentioned, a half acre, point four one acre, and I think they're looking at a forty five hundred square foot probably two story building. I don't even know. Do you know how big it's gonna be and what size?

1:33:26We're gonna ask that question. Yeah

1:33:27so we'll get um point four one square feet or uh is not enough half an acre, less than half an acre is not enough yet. Um Um property values will decline regardless of of what you see. And then occupancy restrictions. What is the occupancy restrictions for that area? For that use? For our yes, for that our neighborhood, R two. In these?

1:33:54Are you asking the density?

1:33:57Occupants you use. How many people can you have in a house?

1:34:01That's not family.

1:34:07Yeah, but if we build a care facility with twenty to thirty people that are that are not family.

1:34:12That's up to the agency for health care administration at the state level.

1:34:15But

1:34:16stay with each

1:34:16other. But as far as Pasco County, what is our restriction of how many people live in our house that are not related?

1:34:24Unrelated people.

1:34:25Unrelated.

1:34:38Yeah, so we're restricted to six or fewer.

1:34:43Um that's all I have.

1:34:45Okay. Thank you.

1:34:53Good afternoon. Uh my name is Jeff Kirshner. I live at uh [address removed], which is right directly across the street from the parcel in question. The applicant has a, as you know, uh a conditional use permit for this RTC, but it's a vacant lot. If it's the applicant's um desire to build a commercial entity of this, then that's what they should be doing. I think the residential uh the R two and a conditional use for R two would

1:35:23be for a property that's already there, no? So they're doing it for the entire property? They could do a new build? The preliminary sites to that um look at a forty five hundred square foot building and ample parking, which takes the entire lot or at least three quarters of the lot. So to us in the neighborhood that have a neighborhood and walk every morning and evening and our pets and our children ride bikes up and down these roads that are already substandard, we're going to add

1:35:53more to that. even though the applicant is responsible for Caroline and Pomelo that are in the conditional use. There's no ingress egress on Pomelo and there's nothing that can be done on Caroline because it's the main street off of State Road 54. There is commercial property directly due west on State Road 54 for this type of um entity that's going to happen and as Mr. Cox pointed out Well, the

1:36:24ones that are comparable to the conditional use are of a bigger parcel. This was somebody's backyard that someone pur purchased and wanted to make an entity, commercial entity because of the convenience of it. but it's still directly next to it is a um a collection facility or a drain that drains out and that's why it's at a slope the way it is uh and that would definitely have to be raised and do all these improvements. Therefore whatever the road was graded for coming

1:36:54down fifty four on the backside, all those different things will be taxed as well. So uh it's not in order with the current crewet of the neighborhood uh and it takes away from our livelihoods in the neighborhood to be a residential neighborhood and this R2 low density residential district. Thank you for your time.

1:37:13Thank you. Thank you.

1:37:26Good afternoon. I'm Michelle Obergon, that's O B R E G O N, and I live at [address removed], which is basically across the street from this lot. Um I wanted to correct. Uh the applicant does not live at Pomelo Trace. You know, he gave the address of the lot, not his residential address. I've been in the neighborhood for I want to say almost 15 years. Um the reason I chose the neighborhood was because it being a quiet neighborhood

1:37:57to raise children in. I loved Wesley Chapel, I love my neighbors. We only have one entrance to our neighborhood. So just imagine that you have one entrance into Pomelo Trace where we already have to Um share the road for those that are coming in and out. We have to share the roads with our neighbors that are walking with their children. We have to share the road for the neighbors that are walking with their dogs. We have to share the roads for the children that are riding bikes because we do not have sidewalks. And we have to share the roads with the kids that are

1:38:27coming off and on the buses in the morning and the afternoon. Being a parent, I would not be I would be concerned with my children walking to and from the buses, with more commercial cars coming in, with people that I don't know in the neighborhood. I know my neighbors. I do not know the people that will be living at the facility. know the families of the people that would be living on the facilities. I live across the street from this lot and um I would be concerned of the safety of my children.

1:38:57I would be concerned of the safety of my neighbors because they are part of my family. Um I am on septic and well, which many of our families and our neighbors are on septic and well, so that's another concern for us too. Um and I don't want to reiterate the same information that was given in regards to the retention pond, the flooding. Um the noise that would be coming in and out. I mean if it is a um home, uh residential, you know, facility

1:39:28that they're trying to do the the treatment facility, the ambulances, the fire trucks that would be coming in, um many of us have small children. You know, it's just the the noise. This is a residential neighborhood. We want to keep it a residential neighborhood. We didn't purchase for commercial to be put in there. Thank you.

1:40:02I think you're the one who gave the petition, right? Yes, sir.

1:40:05My name is Kathy Shram. I live at [address removed] in Wesley Chapel. Um I'm presenting a petition. petition. Okay. We didn't have a great deal of time to sign, but there are 112 signatures. they basically state what the other people have said it will con it will um adversely affect the and um our property values and our properties. It is not consistent with the character of the surrounding

1:40:36areas. Um it will create Increased traffic, parking. um public safety issues. Um it does not have suitable drainage. The site um does not have screening and buffering to prevent interference with our homes. Um possible signs and lighting could create adverse glare. And affect traffic safety, and the proposed conditional use will introduce commercial property into an area where none now exists. Well

1:41:06you covered everything. Nobody else needs to speak. Mr.

1:41:09Chairman Mariano move to receive and file the petition.

1:41:13A second. So a motion is second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed. Carries.

1:41:22Better hurry, somebody else is gonna get in front of you.

1:41:27Good afternoon. My name is Robert Van Fosson. I live at [address removed], which is pretty much right next to Jess. They're split right between. Right. The guy that owned that lot used to use it as a dog lot. And he let his dogs out, it's fenced in. About, let's say less than six months ago, a Camaro came flying off 54 racing down 54 and took out the corner of the fence, about six ten-foot-tall

1:41:58viburnums and caused a bunch of damage, which he's now, I guess, in a lawsuit with because the insurance company didn't want to pay him. Um and the only other thing I can add is that when Doug was up here, he right next to Doug, all the way down into that lot, they cut everybody's backyards over there. when they've widened fifty four. So why would we build a something that's gonna take up the whole lot? And they have no parking or anything else. That

1:42:29just makes no sense. And the values in that area have gone nothing but up. Okay. And I've lived there since two thousand eight.

1:42:36I appreciate you coming. Anything else? Okay, thank you.

1:42:43Okay.

1:42:53For it.

1:42:56I am Kenneth Jensen. I live two houses down from where this uh would be built. very concerned about uh the conditions that would bring to the property. Number one, I had gone to uh real estate that services our area right there and they said um that the housing um properties would uh take a big decrease with something like this in the area,

1:43:27being on the same block especially. And um That would be also a detriment for people who would want to buy the property. They would take this as a no-no because of the noise level, because of the traffic level and so forth. I could expect that with such a facility there would be ambulances coming and going perhaps. And the traffic

1:43:58pattern would have to come in and make go down our street, make a U-turn, come back out, and that would be quite a mess. Actually, at the present time. Uh you can go on Carolyn Drive when you get to Highway 54. You can wait five minutes for the traffic to clear up so you can enter that highway. It's not a good deal. So uh that's another consideration. Um we already lost a lot of property one day. Um

1:44:29the road about ten years ago. When they increase the road width. And so we have enough traffic noise at the moment, but um this would only be an increase to that. And I also have uh concerns for the children going to the bus and back and forth. And I don't have children myself, but um they're not here. But anyway, um these concerns are Uh really uh um uh a a a

1:44:59big thing as far as I'm concerned. If I would ever um I'm eighty-six years old and a half, if I would want to sell my property I would uh pr apparently lose a lot of money on that deal. So that's not a good thing. So I thank you for hearing me and I hope it would not pass. Thank you.

1:45:19Thank you for coming. Appreciate it.

1:45:25Does that cover everybody? Okay, I think we've covered most of the topics. Okay.

1:45:34My name is Colleen Jones and I live in the Saddle Ridge Estates in the back at [address removed]. Um I have a question I noticed that Usually there's a sign that says this is a public uh a a public off um I don't know what you guys call them, but the orange signs that they stick out and say there's a public hearing on the zoning, blah blah blah. Why was there not one done for this? And then the other question is because we also know that the property

1:46:05next to our estates has been sold, and so I'm concerned now that they might not put a sign out there to tell us what they're going to do with that property at the end of Caroline Drive. But I was and the gentleman next to me had showed me a letter he got, so I guess that's that twenty letters you told that other man about, I guess. So it's like how do they tell us because we only learned about it and we live behind everybody, so we don't of course live next door, but it's still in our community with

1:46:35all of our neighbors in the area. So I'm just wondering how that works. Excuse me?

1:46:41How far from this property do you live?

1:46:43A quarter of a mile?

1:46:45Okay.

1:46:46Half a mile back there? Maybe a half mile?

1:46:48Denise, you want to respond?

1:46:49Yes.

1:46:50Yeah.

1:46:50Um I've specifically driven by the property in the past. So the property has two signs. One is posted on State Route 54 on the wood part of the fence, and the other sign is posted on Pomelo Trace on the actual chain link part of the fence that's facing Pomelo Trace. So they're additionally um the notice requirements in the land development code are five hundred feet from the subject property and that includes homeowners association.

1:47:16Yeah. Being that it's a quarter of a mile, that would not be included. In addition, the uh the actual public hearing is listed in the Tampa Bay Times, which is a uh publication of general circulation.

1:47:28Okay. How many of us get

1:47:29the Tampa

1:47:29Bay Times nowadays? That's the only you have to subscribe to it online or get it delivered, I guess.

1:47:35So I I will say that I drove by the property at eleven twenty this morning and there was a sign. in the front and the back just exactly as she stated.

1:47:43Okay, so and

1:47:44it is posted.

1:47:45And and I get that. But I hardly ever go past my Caroline Drive. I don't go that direction, so there would be a sign on that. So The man, the gentleman that lived even across the st street from Carol on Caroline Drive, the cr how did you find out? Because you got a letter? You got a letter. But that's what I'm saying. It was hooked onto a chain link fence That's the right-of-way. How am I supposed to stop and see it on fifty four, for God's sakes?

1:48:15Well it was on both sides of the property. So

1:48:17I'd have to

1:48:18drive down the other people's driveway to have seen it too.

1:48:26But that's how they do it now.

1:48:32Like I said, this other property is sold next to us now that will affect these people also.

1:48:37I think you have lots of evidence sitting right out there that everybody heard about it. So if you didn't

1:48:42know, I no no no I got I got told about it Tuesday. Yeah. So no, we were notified but I was just wondering 'cause we used to see the public orange signs stuck next to properties and stuff like this and now we're not noticing that kind of stuff. and having it on a chain link fence on fifty-four that there's no way I'm gonna stop and read that.

1:49:05Okay, thank you.

1:49:08Okay.

1:49:16Hi, my name's Karen Hall and I live at [address removed]. And I agree with what she just said. I mean, I live on Caroline Drive every day, but I generally don't come out of my neighborhood and I don't turn left and you can't turn left. You have to go west and then make a U turn at the next street. So the traffic in light of this is gonna be even that much worse. And again, if they're gonna do something with the other lot at the end of Caroline Drive, and there's a sign up there, I'd never

1:49:46see it there either, 'cause I wouldn't never drive there. So unless you know, maybe if I'm walking I'd see it. But again I don't go. east one fifty four and you can't go east coming out of our street, so that's to take into consideration with the traffic too. Thank you. Okay,

1:50:05thank you.

1:50:13My name is Lloyd Johnson and I live at [address removed] at Westley Chapel as part of the Citrus Trace Subdivision where this property is located that we're discussing today. Yeah. One of my concerns, and I've not heard it mentioned by the other people uh in any detail at all, is uh Within Citrus Trace, the the roads are posted, no no street parking. Now this is a little bit more than a little bit. facility, as I understand it, is gonna be a fairly good size facility.

1:50:43I I heard mention of forty five hundred square feet. This is a small, small lot. It's it's four tenths of an acre. Yeah. With um a facility that size with twenty or or thirty residents there, it's gonna take a considerable number of employees to support this facility. I don't know where they're gonna park. If you put a 4,500 square foot building on it. uh lot that's only four tenths of an acre and you can't let your employees park on the street. I don't know where they're gonna go. And a

1:51:14facility like that I would also imagine would have visitors that need to have a place to park. And uh maybe even some of the residents would have uh vehicles that they they'd need to put somewhere. So that that's a major concern for me.

1:51:29Okay. Thank you.

1:51:35Okay, did we cover him? Okay. All right, so that if you want to come back and bring your list with you and maybe you can answer some of those questions, you're the applicant. You you're the guy.

1:51:48Yeah.

1:51:54Well, gentlemen, I I heard your concerns. I I need to make a corrections. I think I did give um the address of the property versus my address is [address removed]. If that clear and I've been

1:52:16in that area for over twenty years. I'm not new to that. Our office was right next door to that. So for twenty years I've been coming in and out. I've seen what's going on. It's not like I'm trying to tear it up. Um Some of you seen me before, some of you that I talked to, Revin Keynes, you just come here, you know who I am. I spoke to you many times before, you might forget. But I it's good to see you. It's been a while since I seen you. Um

1:52:46Um

1:52:49You know, I've heard all the concern, I understand. Uh all we try to do it's not Bing your your your property value down. In fact, I was hoping to bring it up because When uh When all the poppy when Pope it is there, when when when the if vacant lane is being built, it's not bringing the value down, it's bringing it up. We all understand that. So

1:53:18You know, some of the concern are valid. I mean when they're talking about um question about drainage. Question about flooding, those have been there for For the longest. And I can't see How that affected them so much that we cannot build that facility. So

1:53:39I think this is all I'm gonna say about that and we just kind of You know? Look forward to see what what comes of it. Okay.

1:53:53So y in the um agenda memo it talks about maximum of thirty residents. And you stated in your opening remarks that you would only have twenty. Uh but even at twenty, how how would you

1:54:09provide enough parking for the family of those folks coming and your staff and the support that would require of twenty residents.

1:54:19The way we do the calculations, um Uh with with the setback and all, there's there's space to do the to do um

1:54:33So how big of a vacil of a facility are

1:54:36you planning on building? Forty five forty five hundred is the max. We've We're not thinking maybe somewhat maybe thirty-five.

1:54:44So you're talking two stories in? No, one story. One story.

1:54:51Listen, please be courteous. He doesn't speak when you're up here.

1:54:56So when so I was out there, the property's fenced, but it looks like that fence is attached to the to the home next door. And but you don't own that home next door.

1:55:09No, I don't. It's a

1:55:10friend of mine. So you only own that that property? Yes, sir. Okay. Okay.

1:55:19I I don't have any other questions.

1:55:21I've got a couple questions. Sure, Pete. Go ahead. Uh according to uh standards for a residential facility or a nursing home, it requires basically 1.5 per resident. You have 20. That's a staff, just a nursing staff of about 30. So you're gonna have some administrative staff. Parking has come up. I I cannot see. and I'm not an engineer, just a plain person, but I would see some difficulty in in the parking itself

1:55:51there, even though you're going to rotate them on different shifts. You're not going to have all thirty at the same time. But they have visitors coming in. And uh

1:56:01I cannot see. of four point four one acres. with a home or a building the size that you're going to construct there, plus the parking, That's gonna be difficult, if not impossible. It's almost like putting ten pounds of sugar in a fine five pound sack. So

1:56:24Can you elaborate on how you can convince me that you don't have the space? I don't see the space there.

1:56:33Well, yeah.

1:56:36I think it's more like um Five is the requirement it's not only the county, also um uh have w you know, it's been also regulated by um

1:56:51Th these are the federal standards that I gave you by the way for this kind of facility.

1:56:56Sure. Sure. Say the way we plan on doing it, we have not got to the point that we met with uh with the with the engineer yet. I think we will try to to um to respect The setbacks. If after we do all calculation on this. We can only put say fifteen. We're gonna do fifteen plus parking. Say we can put eighteen. We're gonna do eighteen

1:57:26plus parking.

1:57:27Okay, but but I'm trying to see if you're trying to make this a business, at some point your labor costs are gonna be greater than your your income, and therefore you'd be running a deficit. I mean I I commend you for trying to establish uh residential treatments in a or a nursing home like this, I think they're needed. Some of us are due are getting older and sometime in our life we will probably end up in one of these facilities. We can't go into a facility that that's this small that's not gonna be and

1:57:57assume you're gonna take Medicare, correct?

1:58:00I I've not to that point yet, sir. Oh okay.

1:58:03Okay. Then to be very honest with you, I think at some point in time you need to to reevaluate in your business plan. That's that's how I see it. So I I I I I cannot go f and vote in favor of this base just on the the size of your your property that you have there. I don't see it mathematically working out. So that's how I feel about it. So anyway, that's that's the only questions I have.

1:58:27Okay.

1:58:29Anyone else? Chris? Anything? Parking. That's that was my question. Amy?

1:58:36Parking.

1:58:37I mean I you know I will also make a comment for Uh my mother was in an assisted living memory care unit for long time and there was about 30 residents uh on the floor that she was on. and uh seeing the support staff that they had for those residents, there is no way in God's green earth that you're gonna be able to do that on that piece of property. I mean there's no way. Um you know, so Unless anybody

1:59:08else has any comments I'll make a motion.

1:59:12Okay.

1:59:13So I will uh move to deny uh as it does not meet the standards in 402.3, subparagraph F one through six, and for item number one specifically, the comp plan does not comply with the comp plan policy 1.10.1.

1:59:33All right. We have a second.

1:59:36A second.

1:59:37Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion of the motion? All in favor of the motion. Aye. Opposed? All right. Motion to deny.