Presentation on the Preliminary Engineering Study and Cost Estimates for the Gulf Harbors and Hudson Channel - No Funding Required

1:41:07Okay, R three. Presentation on preliminary engineering study and cost estimates for the Gulf Harbors and Hudson Channel.

1:41:16Good morning, Chair Commissioner. Hadumwa, our public works director. Our presentation today. Um

1:41:26How we

1:41:31I'm

1:41:31gonna take a two second break myself.

1:41:33Okay. Good. Next slide. Thank you. Our presentation today is how we plan to dredge and maintain The Gulf harbours. Hudson Beach Estates. and other channels, as well as funding options, to get the project done. We also need direction from the board regarding future dredging activities and funding. Presenting with me today our engineering consultant, mister Kevin, Kremkarl of GBA, who

1:42:03discussed the engineering aspects of the project. And Mr. Justin Grant, our fiscal and business services director, who will present the project's funding options. Next slide.

1:42:18So the present phase of the project involves engineering analysis, design and data collection. For recollection, commission. The board approved a piggyback contract to procure GBA services. For the Gulf Harbors and Hudson Channel on October twenty second of last of this year, of last year, excuse me.

1:42:43Mm. Hudson Channel extension was later added to the project through a change order in April of this year.

1:42:53And so with that, Kevin.

1:42:57Mr. Chairman Mariano? Um Mr. Vice Chairman

1:43:01Mes sir.

1:43:02Uh just so that that Hudson Channel extension part was actually in the staff's plan. It was just left out and we had to put it back in later.

1:43:09Thank you.

1:43:14All right, good morning. My name is Kevin Kremkall with Gehagan and Brian Associates in Tampa. Um This slide presents the three primary areas that we studied under this investigation. in Gulf Harbors that included the north and south main channels, as well as sections of the Woodlands and Sea Forest Channel, sections of the Cross Bayou Channel and a small uh canal near Jobeth Drive. Within Hudson, we looked at the Mains Channel, the

1:43:44main entrance channel, as well as the Sponge Crawl Creek and Harbor Drive channels. Uh we also within the Pleasure Isles to Leisure Beach section we looked at the Hudson Channel extension, which would extend from Hudson south to the Signal Cove Main Channel. And that's actually a separate new work dredging project that we looked at. uh as well as maintenance dredging on the Signal Cove Main Channel and three areas, specific areas of shoaling within the Signal Cove South and Leisure Beach neighborhoods. Next

1:44:16slide, please. Our overall engineering approach to this project to perform the preliminary engineering design and cost estimates was to first evaluate any existing and historic data. that the county had, uh which primarily related to the previous Hudson Channel dredging. We then performed hydrographic surveys of each individual neighborhood. To get an overview of the existing channel conditions, as well as to provide a data surface from which to calculate dredge volumes. We

1:44:47performed ecological surveys to identify any potential aquatic resources within the dredge areas and also just to overall ID any potential impediments to dredging within these areas. We conducted geotechnical investigations which involved Obtaining samples of the sediment to determine its physical and chemical composition. And we also performed limited jet probings through the dredge areas, which was to determine an approximate rock-sand

1:45:18interface elevation as well as the variability of that rock interface within the potential dredge areas. With this information in mind, we looked at iterations of developing various template widths within these dredge areas. And then we looked at various methodologies that would be appropriate for conducting dredging within these areas. And we use that information to develop the cost estimates that we'll go over here today.

1:45:45Uh some of the the key takeaways, uh next slide please, thank you. Some of the key takeaways uh from from the investigation. Uh as I said, we did look at numerous ways of conducting both mechanical dredging and hydraulic dredging within each particular project location. And just as an overall result, um mechanical dredging is gonna be typically provide a more cost-effective solution. And it also gives us some greater flexibility in deal dealing with various material types, as well as more

1:46:16flexibility in potentially adding additional dredge areas, should that be desired in the future. Uh overall we're looking at 62,400 cubic yards of maintenance dredging material to be removed. uh not including the new new work material from Hudson Extension. We did find a couple areas where we had elevated levels of arsenic in the sediment that would be above the DEP thresholds, primarily in the Harbor Drive Channel and just to the inside of the Signal Cove main

1:46:46channel. Nothing that can't be dealt with, the quantities are manageable, and that material would simply be mechanically excavated and taken to a landfill for disposal. Something we we did not expect to find is that there's actually a large mass of aquatic macroalgae that's residing within the Hudson entrance channel. And if you can envision this as large tumbleweeds of a Postulate consistency algae

1:47:16that are actually rolling around. inside the Hudson entrance channel within with the tides. They're not leaving the channel, they're just moving around within it. But there's approximately 10,000 cubic yards of material there. That we identified as some sort of uh anomaly in the hydrographic surveys and we later confirmed that was what that was through our diver investigations. So We don't know if that's gonna continue to be present when we go to physically dredge the material. Uh but it's definitely something that will add some cost and complexity if it remains there and something to be taken

1:47:46into consideration.

1:47:48Mr. Chairman, quick question?

1:47:49Yes, sir.

1:47:50If that L if that LGM and when we did the Hudson Channel Dredge and we went down to that five level, uh we did the studies for four years. The fifth year was growing back so good the Army Corps said you don't need to do the fifth year. Uh they did find that algae was growing like crazy. Does that algae minimize itself in like the winter months?

1:48:07So interestingly enough, um we first came out in uh January to perform what we thought were gonna be our only round of hydrographic surveys. And and looking at this, we in this we we thought we had quite a large volume of sediment to be excavated from From the Hudson Channel because of this, looking at the signatures we saw from, you know, it's an acoustic survey, so we we get to determine some level of character of the material from that information. And it didn't make much sense to us. We thought we may have had some sort of large

1:48:38uh kelp-like vegetation growing because it came up and it made uh what looked like a large hump in the middle of the Hudson entrance channel. Looking at it, we realized that it could not be very hard because of the way we were looking at the acoustics. So we had to wait until we could get the divers out later. And we actually went through tweaking our sonar a little bit. We did, we came back, we did another survey to see what this was at no additional cost to the county, just as an investigative procedure. And we realized it had to be vegetation and we we we did confirm

1:49:08that it was this macro algae and not a seagrass when the divers got out there. Um Uh beyond that looking at uh can I ask you a question? Sorry, sorry.

1:49:20So With that quote macroalgae, um I can only assume that could do harm. to those to that water in that area too. It's it's really not uh I would assume there might be um some man made consequences to why that's there.

1:49:38Well, possibly. From what our biologist told us, it essentially has become trapped because the the Hudson Channel was essentially cut out of limestone. So it's it's trapped within the the channel itself and potentially short of a large storm or some other event where there's enough energy to move it out of that hole. Uh right now it's just moving around. But we did look in January and it was much denser in January than what we were able to see when we came back in July. Had it been actual

1:50:08seagrass, we would have expected the opposite. We would have expected a weaker or lower density in January with a much denser or thicker return in the summer.

1:50:18Does that have uh cause potential harm to the um Water life. Because that's not Too natural.

1:50:28You know, that's a that's a great question. Um we're actually expecting our final Benthic report from the environ uh the biologists either tomorrow or Wednesday. I will follow up with them and ask them if they have any professional opinion on that.

1:50:41Yeah, because I'm just thinking, you know, right-

1:50:44Yeah.

1:50:44The fish aren't as I can tell you right now the fish aren't as plentiful in those areas as they are in others. Would we agree with that? Well, is that probably right? Yeah.

1:50:53And you're talking about the ch Sorry Chairman, you're talking about the channel directly out front of Hudson Beach. And Sam's not out to the east more. You're talking about the actual channel?

1:51:02Yes, Commissioner. The main entrance channel coming into Hudson. So I will follow up on that question for you. Okay, thanks. Appreciate it. Um and then uh so one of the goals going forward is we we did identify quite a bit of seagrass within almost every area. There were a few areas that were devoid of it, uh potentially in the particularly on the inside of Signal Cove and Jobeth Drive. Uh but we do have issues to deal with uh in most of the other areas. And and the goal will be going forward now through the permitting and final design phase is to

1:51:32delineate our dredge areas to. To avoid that as much as we can, and then to you know lower whatever potential mitigation there may be associated with that. Uh next slide please.

1:51:46Okay, so uh this slide presents an overview of the estimated maintenance dredging costs by neighborhood. The costs that you're seeing here include the mobilization and demobilization of dredge equipment to and from the dredge areas. It includes the actual unit cost per cubic yard of physically dredging the material. And it also includes the cost of trucking that material out of the area to a suitable placement site within approximately 10

1:52:16miles of the dredge areas. Again, most of this is based upon mechanical dredging because it turned out to be a more cost-effective solution. А виду the disposal costs associated with taking that contaminated material for placement into a landfill. uh included here. We have not included any cost associated with placing the quality material onto adjacent sites because the remainder of that material really is high quality material that can be used suitably

1:52:48or beneficial placement somewhere within the project area. Um

1:52:53question for you? Mr. Chairman Mariano. When you look at the the arsenic areas, you mentioned there on two spots, are they close to, let's say, US nineteen at the the base of the Channel where the road runoff might be?

1:53:04So the the Harbor Drive uh channel, yes that's that's fairly close to nineteen. We did not look at the particular drainage paths in that area. So

1:53:13Harbor Drive is that in Hudson now?

1:53:14That's in Hudson. That's the north side by the uh by the Hudson Marina.

1:53:19By the Hudson Marina. Not by the shrimp boats, but by the marina.

1:53:23Well okay, the the the northernmost channel that we looked at. Okay. So

1:53:28that's marine, okay.

1:53:30And uh the other one was just in and that one was quite a bit. That one was um Uh I believe it's two point one is the is the threshold and that was at a seven. Uh the other area we looked at which is a little surprising uh was just to the inside of the signal cove main channel. And arsenic is a naturally occurring chemical and and it's mostly related to some of the organics. So this area inside the signal cove main channel, we had one area that was just above the threshold. It's a three, it's probably very strong. Small in size,

1:54:01uh, because we don't expect to see that once we get out into the sandy area of the signal coat. How was the depth

1:54:07of that part of the channel?

1:54:10Oh I want to say you're somewhere in the the four foot area. Uh from what I can recall, I I can refer you to our surveys uh to double check. I can't remember each specific area. So it

1:54:19did have a little bit of depth to it.

1:54:21It did have some depth to it.

1:54:23If um you were to take those areas. And keep the water in the same area so it's soil displacement mode of of uh moving the material Would you be able to keep that in the same channel and and as they did Th the some some have done spray to the banks in Let it go there rather than have to remove it without work with the army with permitting.

1:54:45So anything that we would do that would um Uh a technique you're you're referring to would be something if you have Mm suitable material that can beneficial marsh uh benefit a marsh

1:54:58or a

1:54:58wetland. No, no, I'm

1:54:59I'm talking about taking The Silt or whatever the dredged materials that's in the middle part of the channel and then hydraulically spraying it to the sides and let it accumulate on the bank, kind of filling in the bank.

1:55:13Uh that would be considered uh open water disposal and would not generally be something that that could be done in in an area where we have water quality requirements like we do here.

1:55:26All right. So what I'm talking about is soil displacement.

1:55:30So you're talking about taking materi material from a channel, side.

1:55:33No, no, leaving it right in the same channel. Now you're just moving it from one side to the other. Soil displacement. It's a different different set of rules.

1:55:41Well, I think you'd have to look at that on a case by case basis. Um Well

1:55:46it it depends if you have enough depth. Like we actually looked at doing that down in Port Ritchie.

1:55:49Yeah.

1:55:50But those channels are so silted in you can't do it there.

1:55:52Right.

1:55:53Uh at a Hudson Channel someone had done it on the channel itself. It was about a Probably about the same type of width. He sprayed it right to the side. filled it in and it was like miraculous how he was able to get to like an eight foot eight eight or nine foot depth in the middle of the channel,

1:56:07uh fill

1:56:08up the seawall and you never see the difference.

1:56:10Yeah.

1:56:10And all of a sudden sea life comes back to life, et cetera. So it's soil displays it's different than Taking and moving.

1:56:19conditions if you keep it in the same mode, same area.

1:56:23If you have a channel, let's say that had a very deep center and you only had small amounts of material on the side, then yes, you could recontour that material. In in in a larger scale dredging project, they would call that drag barring. where you're pulling material from the high spots to put it into low spots to achieve a desired depth. Um I would say there were potential could exist for some of that, but it would have to be looked at on a specific case-by-case basis with the environmental restrictions in mind.

1:56:53Right. So with with that soil displacement, if you did it, and like I said, that's why I asked you what the height was, because if it was if you told me it was like only a two-foot height, I said, well, probably not gonna work. If it's a little bit better than that, then maybe it would work. So but it's something we can look at. What we could talk about later.

1:57:05Sure, certainly. Just to keep in mind here, everything we're looking at in a maintenance dredging scenario is we're looking at taking this to a minus five foot mean low water contour, which would be the maintainable depth that we would be allowed to do. Um So uh in addition to uh the unit costs and disposal costs within these uh numbers that you're looking at here, we have included future final engineering design, permitting, inspection. uh an overall project

1:57:35contingency and an allowance for potential seagrass mitigation, which is something that we'll be looking through the permitting and final design process to narrow down as much as possible and really quantify uh to the greatest extent possible.

1:57:50Mr. Chairman Mariano

1:57:53I think it was two weeks ago we talked with your firm because we had found a map from the Army Corps of Engineers that showed back, I think it was 1950. They had dredged the Hudson Channel. All the way to seventy-five foot for the depth at the bottom. And that I think is something that people out there would really love to have. You haven't put that in your calculations. Any reason why? I know I know the scope didn't say it, but is that why?

1:58:16Uh well, so we uh in the report that you'll be getting at the end of the week, we actually do have the seventy-five foot channel uh cost estimated. Uh as far as obtaining permission to maintain that uh we we did not actually receive the documentation that you referred to uh that showed that previous 75 foot width channel. Uh something we'd we'd obviously like to get and that's gonna be obviously very beneficial in convincing the agencies that that is truly maintenance

1:58:47dredging as opposed to new work, which is gonna be key to getting the the authorization you're discussing.

1:58:51Interesting. Commissioner We Captain Wells, you say.

1:58:54You might be uh familiar with

1:58:55this, but When we did the Hudson Channel years ago The Army Corps actually wanted us to be at seventy five foot width. For some reason it didn't go that way.

1:59:04I mean Good. Chairman, I mean the channel right now is probably twenty foot wide. It's not it's not very wide heading out to the east and it's not very deep. I can tell ya if you're talking about making it five foot minimum uh medium low tide. that's gonna work for those business folks that are that can't get out now during low tide, but sixty foot wide would be great, but it's not very wide. You can barely get by two boats, a big boat coming in, going out. You have to go, you know. What's that? Anyhow. Let me ask you about Signal Cove. Are you with

1:59:34the design and I saw it's still gonna zigzag where it does now, you're not gonna be able to make it go straight. Like out there at that point it's still gonna come across and zigzag.

1:59:43Yeah, looking at the Signal Cove main channel, it's a very narrow channel.

1:59:47It is.

1:59:48And you're you're very limited in what you can do because of the previously, uh it looks like that area was drilled in blast. You can still see the old drill holes. We still have some relic uh rubble, rock rubble boulders that are within the channel. The entrance channel looks like they took all of the limestone rubble and just side cast it. So you've got a very hard structure on one side. We have that long mangrove lined island on one side, and then we have some vegetated spoil islands on another. You know we looked at the right-of-way. If it was possible to

2:00:18easily expand that channel width, but it really isn't, and it's definitely not gonna be a maintenance dredging project. We're really between the channel toes, you've only got about 25, maybe 30 feet there. We did do some jet probings through there, and we can maintain that. We didn't have any that uh showed us that there was existing ledge rock. Now we only did a a limited preliminary investigation to see where. rock was but it looks like we could maintain that uh but as far as going wider that would be a much larger scale project because of that existing rock.

2:00:48I don't I don't see you going wider but when you're looking at your uh whatever machine you use for sonar, are you able to show the so show the silt compared to the lime rock? the silt in areas has to be three, four foot thick that can just be removed. I mean, d do you have that in the numbers that I could see at some point as far as 'cause I even think out towards the end, um It's just silt. I mean you can there's some areas in that channel once it zigzags and starts coming into the west that's eight foot deep and then there's some that are four or less, especially at

2:01:18the low tide. I mean you they're more like a foot,

2:01:20you know. Yeah, yeah, you can take a look through the survey data as well as the everything else that we'll be okay delivering to the county. Uh it is very well shoulder in there and it does drop off, like you said, quite deep once you get inside.

2:01:32Yeah, 'cause we I mean ultimately I think if and when we can get this done and we get it dredged, we're gonna need to as a As a county, look at the safest way and it probably needs to be idle only around that corner 'cause it's very dangerous. But but if it but you have to go fast now or you can't make it 'cause it's so shallow, so

2:01:49Yeah, Mr. Chairman M Captain Wells again. Um interesting we found in the past couple of weeks. Is it the s at the start of the Leisure Beach Channel instead of like going all the way up? There used to be a cut going all the way across that shows up in the map we have actually sent to DEP about trying to get the ex us to get back our jurisdiction back. That connection point could bring us all the way straight across to connect into up to sea ranching and then going back out. It's right below the Redneck Riv Riviera, they call it the right-of-way. Okay, yeah, so

2:02:19that connection was actually there and established many years ago. So frankly I think w later on we we're gonna be able to absor uh Walk away from that 12-13 marker cutting across where we knew that was gonna be tough to get through the Army Corps and DEP. We're gonna be able to avoid even having to do that connection, just make that lower connection coming out and around.

2:02:38Oh and Commissioner, I do want to also point out that this cost here, these are the maintenance dredging costs, and this does not include that new work Hudson extension. The the uh construction estimate for that is included in the report, but it is not summarized in this uh table here because we're focusing here on the maintenance dredging side. Okay. Do I have

2:02:59Any other questions at this time?

2:03:02Okay.

2:03:03Well

2:03:03thank you

2:03:03for your report.

2:03:04Thank you. With that I'll turn it over to Justin to discuss the financials.

2:03:09So I go ahead, Mr. Biles.

2:03:12Yes, Mr. Chair. If if you would like, you know, we could pause now. At this point we don't need really need the consultants anymore. Okay. And we could come back later with the rest of the team uh and they can go on their way and then because the discussion after this is a financial discussion and a next step discussion. So it's a pleasure of the board.

2:03:31Yeah. Um the financial I can wait, I'd like to ask a couple of questions then about because I thought we'd do it later.

2:03:41So I think you're aware we've tried to work with D E P with that coastal management plan all the way up and down and looking, doing all the channels up and down the whole coast. And we've mapped out which we I think we've shared with you. So we're gonna go through and all those. channels up and down from pre April third, nineteen seventy would mean We could become the permitting agency Skipping the D E P.

2:04:05Do we have to follow the same rules? But we could be in control of them going forward. Um Looking at all that you c have you factored much of that into the what's here or you just kinda go and one one what was presented to you and requested of you at first?

2:04:18So uh Given the information that we discussed previously with the county's permitting efforts, we we stopped our conversations with DEP.

2:04:26Thank you for that.

2:04:28Of course. Uh and I think the the best thing that you could do for the moment would be to continue the track that you're on and attempt to get that. We have not factored in the positive implications of that at this point, which is why we left a large variable contingency for potential. seagrass minification, but again anything we can do to minimize that would would obviously be of great benefit to the projects.

2:04:50No, I mean you've you've you guys have been great to deal with every step of the way. You've been very responsive every step of the way. This latest development has been a real positive for us potentially. And I know it doesn't go everything into these numbers here, but at least what you've done, we can still really work with this and go further as we go a little bit further down the road with DEP, et cetera.

2:05:09Of course. And I I believe we are coming up to the end of our contractual period. I I did offer to Mike that if there's another meeting that would be coming up where we could be of of value to the county, we'd be happy to be able to do that.

2:05:23Thirty to sixty days depending would be probably real good with that. But thank you very much. We greatly appreciate it. You guys have been very professional again. Thank you. Thank

2:05:30you. I do have one question before you leave if you don't mind. Um are you familiar with the current project going on down in Venice and the inlet? The dredging going on down there?

16:49All right, good afternoon. Justin Grant, Director of Public Fi Public Infrastructure, Fiscal and Business Administration. This is the continuation of R three earlier this afternoon presenting judging options. I'll wait here for a moment. We'll pull up the presentation. We have some visual needs for you guys.

17:12Perfect. Thank you. Okay. So the aim here is to generally define the benefiting areas for assessment, right? So indirect to direct benefiting. So going right to left on that map there, uh you're looking at the section B there in yellow. Going to section A. Dividing lines there are west of Little Road and west of US 19. And the two smaller areas there pictured is Hudson and Gulf Harbors. Those are you guys who are familiar with those boundary lines. And then the table here to the left gives you a pictorial

17:43of how many parcels are in each one of those areas. And if you add Hudson and Gulf Harbors, that makes the fifth division of areas. Recognize there's limitations to this analysis. This slide and the very next slide is for illustration and estimation purposes only. If the board should move to choose to move forward, any special assessment district would require legal definitions for the exact benefits and assessments. Next slide, please.

18:11So this slide is put together here to give everything on a $1 million cost of construction. So everything on an incremental basis. This is basically perspective to look at what that would cost from the different units. On an MSTU for west of Little Road, you're looking at about $225. $450 for the MSTU west of 19. MSBU looking at $375. For that area, and then a combined MSU S MSBU, this would be Gulf Harbors and um and Hudson put

18:41together. That would be 1875. Obviously, that number is larger due to the smaller uh number of parcels contained within that. Um you have the millage, the top two uh there um are MSTUs, those use millage methodology, and the bottom two are MSBUs that use flat assessments.

19:00Okay. I believe that is the great Brantford can bring us up to wrap up. Thank you, sir. Alright.

19:11Thank you, Jastin. Good afternoon, Chair and Commissioner.

19:16Public waste director. So what are the next steps? We will pursue grants to help reduce the cost of the project. Please note most grants require margin funds on our part. We'll bring back before the Board an assessment methodology and rate for a M SBU or MSTU based on commission direction today. We do recommend an MSBU for an assessment methodology for this project. We will meanwhile secure

19:47temporary funding in public works for the permitting and design. of the project. The funds will be reimbursed later. We will also need one full time project management position in public works. To manage dredging projects. Permitting design and procurement for completing the project would take between eighteen to twenty four months. And this concludes our presentation. Uh if you have any further questions, we are available to address them.

20:17Well before I uh if you don't want me to ask questions, you you're stating that The time to permit. design and the procurement is twenty five months. So

20:29Do we have a guesstimate on the advice from the consultant on how long the project itself Would take.

20:38For the construction?

20:39Correct.

20:42It's about six.

20:42Six months. Six months, yes. Oh wow, so okay. So it's twenty five for the permitting, but only six months to construct. Okay. Commissioner Mariano.

20:50Um And I this is early in the stage. And I think if we heard the presentation today when we talked about the coastal restoration Um Holiday. taking back the jurisdiction of D E P is a huge game changer from all the numbers that we've seen already. If we can take back jurisdiction, we'll save a lot of that permitting time and cost. And talk to the consultant, we agreed 100%. That's the time to go take

21:21a look at everything. So I think the next thing we need to do is really follow that through. They say we should be able to get that permit uh answered within 30 days. And I think from there we can then go take a closer look to where we're at. Part of the reason we wanted GDA to stop was because once you initiate a program with DEP, you have to stick with it. We didn't want to have that interview, didn't want to have that meeting, and that's why they kind of stopped where they're at. But it's going to be very easy to pick up and go from there. One

21:51thing I will say is the Mm-hmm. Chair of the of the resurrect committee. When we did the approvals of the part one money for the first allocation and the part three money, uh everyone would say they thought dredging was a good application of that money. I I s I think the committee will still feel that way. We do need to get it before them at some point, but I don't think we're very easy for that yet because we don't know how the numbers are gonna play out. Uh The aquatic reserve was a big conversation we had this spring when the legislative

22:21was passing that through. If the DEP approves what we're pulling back, 99% of everything we talked about when we're worried about that aquatic reserve will go away. It will come under this as a existing channel already. It simplifies that whole process. So I think we can take all that permitting process and now it's on us, that permitting might be able to get done within two or three months. Just doing an internal thing uh I think it's good to look at the NSPU.

22:49The uh the brilliance of your paving assessments you've had done. I I feel I'm being heard better now.

22:54Yes.

22:56Um the brilliance of what you had done with the Highlands Paving Assessment where we had the whole Highlands community different levels of service were needed up and down, and we took the whole thing, we set up nine different segments, even though it's the same MSPU. I think it's a similar approach here, because let's say if Gulf Harbor is just needs You know, fifty grand worth of work then that's what th their share should be. If Hudson needs a bit more then so be it, and up and down the whole coast, I think it's an easy allocation. I think it's important and and maybe we'll get more from O and

23:26B about this, but I think the uh TIF is gonna be the ultimate way to go and the fairest way to go because it'll be less impact fee but financially which could be the most lucrative. When word gets out and we start the dredging up and down this coast. And and already I am hearing very, very positive things up and down about they are excited about the treasuring, they want to see it come quicker, they want to see it happen, they know it is going to improve their neighborhood value, they know it is going to improve the up and down area. And let's face it, US nineteen. If it gets this boost, we'll

23:56be phenomenally improved. Uh and I think you'll see a lot of great things happen just naturally. So somehow we need to work with OMB. Let it come figure out how we could do a tax increment financing program with this so that that can actually help pay for a lot of this cost. And we talked before this morning about there are some Tweaking that need to be done, some studies need to be done because there's already some existing tip that we need to look and maybe separate out. So that can be a conversation maybe we can start now. We've kind of got some good groundwork and maybe in the next thirty days or sixty days, maybe come back

24:26with a better plan to do that. But I think the MSBU would be would be well received. I think the TIF would be even more well received. And we might even find with Restor Act money coming out that uh we can make this a very affordable program uh that will benefit the citizens all over the county every step of the way.

24:48Mr. Bowles, do you have a question? Uh just a couple. Yeah. Yeah, there are three counties that have had delegated authority from D E P and I've looked at all the documents and Unless we get a special agreement with D E P none of 'em allow them to permit their own work. So that's gonna be a hurdle we're gonna have to jump over. Every one of them requires their own permits to still go through DEP. So that's gonna be an issue we're gonna have to deal with. Which may or may not help this. Furthermore, those agreements have been

25:18not just for specific things, but have been General globally. With respect to D P permits. So Oh. Anyway and With respect to the TIFF, I'm not sure if you're referring to the current transportation TIF or a a different one, I think they they're gonna need some clarification as to what you're referring to with respect to the TIFF.

25:38Well in this morning he came to me to talk about oh you can't have two TIFFs. So that may be something that does have to get dis discussed and gone through how we're gonna make it happen. Um I think for West Pasco You know, if I had to look at transportation, do I really need a transportation MEGFee or do we need dredging? I think up and down we'll say that. This would be definitely the the way to go for it. But that's something we can take a look at. Um as far as the printing with DEP, I think we're going to have a With what we have for preexisting canals between before April 3rd, 1970,

26:08I think it is a discussion from what I am hearing that we can actually Segregate out what we can do. Um

26:15I just wanted to put caution on the delegation. The delegation Yeah, if their maintenance dredges, yeah, that's that's different than dredging your channel. But

26:25everything we're looking at right now? Everything we're talking about is just all channels existing before nineteen seventy. So I'm not looking to go outside that scope. I'm sticking a right small focus. I don't want to change anything else that Swift Mont's doing, D E B is doing. I want to just work on the maintenance channels so I can change the bureaucracy from just dealing with the state in the Army Corps, but they stick right in Pasco County. And I think we have already a coastal person already in place. Um that can start, but we can bring a dredging person on full time, which I think would be a good benefit as well to make sure these things get well. And it could be even a partial position, I

26:55don't know.

26:58So what I'm saying is I've looked at the three other delegations. And none of them allow the county to to permit themselves.

27:06If it's a maintenance channel?

27:11The language is any permit done by the jurisdiction has to go to D P. It's flat out in every one of their agreements. So that's a an issue we'd have to deal with on that.

27:24Have we

27:24sub have we submitted that, Mike? I'll have to check with staff. There are some um There's some more detail that we think we're gonna need to add to it. Of course, the you know the DEP will probably come back with requests for additional information as as we go through it. We still have time, you know, given, you know, if the direction is to continue moving with with the uh with the project, we're gonna probably have to put out a solicitation for a consultant anyways, which is about a six-month process. So before we would even begin the the final design efforts. We

27:55can certainly work all that in parallel, which will be a good thing. So we're we're excited about it. Staff is looking into all the historical documents, some of the work that we can build on with GPA that that shows you know the underwater surveys will be helpful in in that in that matter. But we've got a little more information we've got to put into it for DEP.

28:11And and again, I'm I'm comfortable taking these next steps to go forward. The wind talking to the consultant. Thinks if we do get this done it'll be a tremendous savings for us in time, energy, et cetera. So I think it's something we can get done based upon what the other three have done without even doing anywhere near what they're doing. I'm just trying to look at the channels that we were built pre-nineteen seventy, April third.

28:34Okay. I have a couple of questions too. Um talk to me about some of the possible grant opportunities that are out there. I know typically there is a match to it, but which ones do we think we have um the best chance of um

28:48acquiring?

28:51So there there are a number of grants out there, Commissioner, to to discuss specifics. I'm I'm not not really prepared to to talk about the specific grants. There are a lot of of opportunities, but each grant has its own specific, narrow little thing to it, right? So some grants you may need to make sure you're doing X and not not Y. And so part of the direction that we'd be looking for from the board is to go ahead and be able to expend resources. We want to go out and put a serious effort into it, knowing that as we put together

29:21a funding mechanism, we're going to be able to say in those grant applications, Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna be able to come up with a match. We're gonna be able to have you know, a mechanism to to pay. So there is a little bit of of of uh some start that we need. Uh restore is is obviously a uh um uh an an al an alternative uh that that's real money that's there. Um but there are a number of other federal grants. It just again it depends on what you're gonna do. with the dredging spoils and the type of work that you're doing.

29:49There was a gentleman as we all know named Alan Rose that sends us emails on a pretty consistent basis and shows opportunities. And I did talk to Dane about some of those and we know that some are attainable and Possibly if we're going to be able to do that They would have worked twenty or thirty years ago, if I'm not correct, with some of those opportunities.

30:05Some of that's attainable and some of that is probably not permittable.

30:08Not permittable anymore, but uh from those lists he sends, are some of those grants possible opportunities of what you're speaking of?

30:16I I d I uh on on the surface, perhaps. Uh on others like like Dan said, you know, we can't go out and create coastal barriers on top of sea line.

30:27be allowed these days, but some of the other opportunities. Yes. I just bring that up as an example because I know he has approached us on numerous occasions and has sent multiple So obviously he's done some you know, some due diligence about opportunities there. Commissioner Mariano?

30:41Yes, and there there are some grants that one that we're looking at right now with Congress Bilarocus' office, the Chafee grant that's out there, that's a huge amount of money that we could tap into that ties right into the coastal preservation. Oyster beds, oyster, there's all sorts of money available for that as well. So forming a budget that we as we've talked, these things can go around. permitting of the islands would be tough, et cetera. But there's so many opportunities out there to get it for anything to improve water quality. And I think you were talking about the Venice

31:11project. I don't know if that's the same one I'm thinking of, but that was water quality funded across the board. That ties in very close to what we're doing here in the Hudson Channel. The numbers, et cetera. What we've got to do is get down to the source of what the problem is. Now just to kind of highlight, I was going to get this in the committee report We had uh Nine Florida out at Hudson Beach. 'Cause there was some rumors around okay, uh the pipes going under the canals and that's what's causing the leaking, et cetera, et cetera. So we went with Nine Florida and I heard this before but I wanted to get it verified. So by the way, Mike, thank

31:42you for setting up that meeting. That was it was phenomenal. Uh they've got plastic pipe going up and down. Clark Street, uh Harbor Drive, Old Dixie, et cetera. All brand new stuff that's not leaking whatsoever. Some stuff can get in there, but it's not causing anything that's gonna get out. And there's nothing going under the canals. So, one of the things we have to do is we've got to isolate where that pollution is coming from. Uh we find it's at the base where the shrimpers are. We find it's also Coincidentally out by the pavilion of Hudson with Hudson Beaches. It's also on the skeleton key exit

32:12going out where there's a lot of bacteria there. We're probably gonna struggle with f trying to figure out what exact one there. Could be boaters dropping the stuff before they kinda get inside.

32:20Yeah.

32:20When I look at Hudson Beach at low tide, and we're just kind of out there the other day when we had Nye Floor out there, I'm looking at all the birds. I mean you had Blackbirds, seagulls, you had ducks, everybody's out there into like a feeding frenzy in that area. Well while all the birds are there, guess what they're gonna do? But they p leave their poop, right?

32:37Right.

32:38That's gonna go. I think that's partly what those numbers are coming up to be. So when we go look at putting that seawall going all the way around there and raise it all up. You're not going to have that feeding frenzy anymore and you're going to be able to control that bacteria. If we can isolate to the bacteria like they did down in Venice, we can go then get extra grant funding to say, here's what we're going to do, here's how it's going to prevent. So it is a exciting process right now, but it's going to just take a little bit more uh uh diagrams to go forward. Staffs, I think, already got their report that's already been sp sent back to T D E P to what we found, and we're gonna take that next step

33:08with them to work with them. But There's so much money in water quality. The governor was just talking about it this past week, how much money is out there. So water quality is critical, and that is what all these things will do. Mm. And we might even find there's some silt. On some of these dredges projects that's coming right from the roadway? Well, should should should the people have to pay for that? Or should maybe we should look at use of stormwater to be able to take that part out. A lot of moving parts right now. I am excited. Mike, your team. the time we're taking, the consultant's doing a great job, so I know we're moving quickly with it,

33:38and I think the timelines you see and the cost you see are are gonna you know all go down. But just give us a little time to keep on working it.

33:45All right. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman Mariano Commissioner Oakley.

33:49So We had to to get our permits we have to go through D E P to get those permits. So I would I would think we need to go after every grant we can get and we're gonna have to have matching funds with those grants. So Which is the best way to Um The tax or the M S B U or M S T U, which is best used?

34:16So staff has recommended that we pursue the MSBU for those specific communities that are that are being assessed with an understanding of what that is. We we know about what our match could potentially be, and so every grant would be sought to reduce that balance. Okay.

34:32All right. Sounds good. Mr. Chairman Mariano.

34:35Mr. Syson.

34:36So the MSBU is a benefit unit. We'd have to prove a that acreage that we are levying those assessments on benefit from the project. an MSTU is a taxing unit that that we could levy an additional millage for municipal purposes That being dredging. So One's a taxing unit, one's a benefit unit. There are strings with a benefit unit

35:07um but the other one is is levying additional milling. Okay.

35:12Yeah.

35:13So let can I can I ask one more question? So just as a follow up Um I'm gonna make an assumption that as time goes on we'll have community meetings, meetings with the residents to make sure we get receive their input, obviously. Um

35:31Okay. Just wanna make sure that 'cause obviously that's very important to make sure that we ha that the residents this is something they want to pursue and want to move forward with. Yes. We know we have heard from quite a few that would, but obviously it's obviously we want to give those those folks the opportunity. So go Commissioner Oakley.

35:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman M I will tell you from four years ago plus now we had that first meeting of the Sea Ranch where we had people all the way from Bailey's Bluff up to Sea Pines. Right. All the different communities showing interest in this and they've been, I'll say, e excitedly waiting as we may keep on making progress with this coming forward. Um so I I know that when we get to it everybody knows Um that they're gonna benefit from it and they see willing to participate as well. Uh just looking to make sure we make the best move possible. Uh I would like to add When we do look at

36:18the MSBU There's an area on Old Dixie Highway. where there was a b it's not even a bridge, it's like ten feet wide or so. There was a canal that goes right across from Hudson. Years ago they lowered it down to now if you're in a pontoon boat at high tide, you've got to lay down to be able to go under that bridge. There's about two hundred and fifty parcels that are in there. So we're gonna go kinda do something for improving. Dredging, etcetera. I think those canals should be in it as well. as a separate

36:48unit from where the bridge is going back through it. And I would think that if we come to a plan, we might even for that one unit as well to look at raising that bridge up. It'll take two hundred homes that are either just can't get to the Gulf With any any type of vote whatsoever. Um uh other than a pontoon to be able to go out there and boat access. You could take two hundred fifty units and all of a sudden make an prime golf property that can go right into a canal. So if we can add that into this mix, I think it would be a a good addition. I think everybody

37:18else west of nineteen you can show a clear benefit for everybody.

37:24So I have another question and this could be answered by commissioners or or the or the team. Hudson Channel. So we're looking at the cost of possibly seven million dollars. Um I know we discussed this a little bit more, but That's a Not just a benefit for the residents that are there, that live there. I mean that's a benefit for commercial fishermen, that's a benefit f to the public in general. Um so I guess the

37:54question is You know, when it comes to an MSBU or in referring to Hudson Channel. I mean how mu how much should local residents be paying for that portion when there is quite a bit of uh you know, quite a bit of benefit for the the general public too? or commer or commercial fishermen that actually don't live on the ch areas.

38:15That's a that's a great point. So maybe it is something to take a look at. Maybe it's not quite the same high degree on the west side of nineteen, but Everybody will benefit from it. Good point.

38:26Yeah. consider the commercial aspects of of the dredging and who other other properties that may benefit from that, marinas, fishermen, etc.

38:36Dr. Chairman M

38:37yes. Commissioner Oakley and I'm with you. Um So when we look at opportunities or grand opportunities, is there any type of economic grant or funding that could be tied into this. Right.

38:55I don't know off hand

38:56of the certainly that's just a open question to maybe something to not maybe, let's look into that. So Commissioner Starkey, go ahead, please.

39:05Well I just wanted to say I know uh most of the citizens I run into in Gulf Harbors are very uh excited about the dredge. I know there's um some boats that uh can't get out. I actually heard one running run into a rock the other day. Um As far as Hudson Channel, I would say uh Even our boat, we we won't go in there anymore. Um we're ver well, we're very nervous to go in there to get gas. especially at low tide. So um not just for commercial

39:35for sh commercial fishermen located there, but boats that are traveling up and down the coast, it's it'll open that up for more economic opportunity from those boats as well.

39:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And you know what one really Really interesting thing of the all this research we've been doing and staff again doing a great job. finding out that the Hudson Channel was six foot deep, seventy five foot wide, When we had a dredge back in 04, we had to give up, they said, at 4.75 to an acceptable number. We still had a whole bunch of rocks that were in there. We can't seem to find that map, but it doesn't matter. We've got it all mapped out now anyway. I am very optimistic it's seventy foot wide, six feet deep, going across the board, that whole channel is gonna change uh in

40:21a big way that area between safety, uh economics as well, that uh that's gonna be much, much better.

40:26So six so I think it needs to be deeper than six feet though. I mean some of those larger boats, what do you think they draft? I mean that's kinda close for some of 'em.

40:36That's mean low low.

40:37Yeah. Okay.

40:39And if I could, Chairman Mariano I probably should have thought about it, but I I believe the old Hudson Channel is deeper than the new Hudson Channel. We probably oughta had them maybe add to the scope to look at the old Hudson Channel, it's just to the north of where the one is now. Um a lot of boats use that old channel 'cause it's deeper and it's wider. So I'm just I didn't really think about it, but I know there's a lot of the fishermen that com come in there by Catches or not catches, but uh Mike

41:09Stock side up there that um that use that. So just It might be something where they could if they're gonna sonar it wouldn't be that much more. I I know the contract's almost up but Just throwing it out there. It may it might be worth looking at. I you know. I I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. I you know. Commissioner Weightman.

41:27Yeah Cap Captain Wells. If you would, no, I mean I I would like I mean you we're all you guys are all very astute as far as boating goes, but if you would that map that we have of the uh Army Corps, the we get it from the Army Corps that's seventy five foot deep, uh We'll make that available to everybody as well to go take a look at and please get with staff, go take a look at that and then go check those those markers out and just kinda front out. Because I think if kinda wan find one marker is like really off center, we've got to change it. But if you would take a really close look at that as we go forward with this. Okay. Thank

41:58you.

41:59Any other questions? Now staff does need some type of direction today to move forward um to get studying to obviously spend any any uh public funds on this. So

42:12So I'll tell you what I've heard, and just to make sure, is that uh the Board is comfortable with us continuing to proceed with uh next level design activities and fleshing out the the project more, with the understanding that that will public works will will borrow those funds from somewhere within its public works funding to pay for it, uh with the understanding that that would be reimbursed whenever we get to the next. Phase which right now sounds like an MSBU. for those specific benefiting units uh to also

42:42consider including uh commercial and and those types of activities. In the meantime we'll we'll we'll continue on parallel paths. I mean that's generally what I've heard. Commissioner O And with the TIF as well. I'm sorry, sir. Yes, of course.

42:58Yeah, I think just the for the public that's watching this today too, that again we're looking at mul continue to look at multiple options, multiple funding options. With the cavity. We're going to look yeah to get as much funding we can from any type of grant from state to the federal level.

43:15Mr. Chairman Mariano.

43:17In the BP Restact money as well is a very big source. And not only Part One and Part Three to bring something, get ready for the committee. But I think this is something. so broad based up and down our whole coast for water quality that the pot too money This is an ideal project for that. And especially we get the state behind us which is getting some of their matching monies. to work with that whole council to get a whole bunch more money, you might get the whole thing funded. It could be that good of a project.

43:43That would be pretty awesome. Timeline again just for the public that's watching. Um When can we get to the point where there's public some type of public meeting or public engagement? Um what would what would you like to do and your team like to do or complete before we get to that point?

44:04So I don't think that there's ever really uh uh you can ever do community engagement uh too late in the process or too early. I I should say. Um, you know, uh we would We could certainly we're certainly have enough information right now that we could take a pulse. So, you know, an early community meeting over the course of the next few months is is certainly doable. And then as we get through the the final design phase, uh I would I would probably suggest a a a second community meeting there and we can Have a little more fleshed out in terms of costs. We'll know

44:34more about grants and we can we can have we can have those discussions so folks will really understand how it will affect them economically, both in terms of valuation of their properties as well as what they're gonna end up paying in in uh future taxes.

44:46So maybe working with your coastal commissioners to together with them to Get through

44:53that process. I th I think you know maybe the West Pasco Bordeaux Realtors might be a good place centrally located for everybody to go to. I we could do it here to a degree, but I think i there's more room there to space people out. Um I think the I think the first one we had four years ago we hit probably had about sixty or seventy people there. I would expect at least that many to show up again. And even if we had to do two phases with the meeting.

45:30Whenever you think you can make that arrangement, I'm happy to happy to be there and make that fit my schedule too.

45:34Look at your capacity, make sure you follow the the guidelines of the fifty under, spread them out and then maybe do two phases, three phases, reservations, reservations and whoever get in the first, gets in the second time.

45:44Okay. Very good.