PDD-22-0241

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 68% of 151 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Apr 19, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP54Public hearingNo action

   Approved minutes

   No action was required as this was the first reading of the proposed Ordinance. The adoption hearing was scheduled for the May 3, 2022 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

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   ▶ 4:516m

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   4:51And now we'll proceed with public hearing with item or public hearing started with ordinance P fifty-four. And when was we approved?

   Ron Oakley

   4:59Yes. Um item P fifty four was published in the Tampe Times on March 16, 2022.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   5:04Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:09Hi, good afternoon. Uh Patrick Dutter, uh, Planning and Development Department. Um, so I have before you today

   5:19Potentially. There we go. Um some landscaping code updates. Uh so there is a team put together uh roughly two years ago to take a look at our landscaping and buffering section of our code. Um so the team uh was a combination of internal and external. Um stakeholders. So from County Staff, we had Frank Galdo Jr. and Kathryn Harper from the Cooperative Extensions Office. We had Elizabeth Blair from the County Attorney's Office. Mike

   5:49Woodard, who is an arborist working in central permitting, and myself and Pam Shaw who are planners working for planning and development. And then we also did this in coordination with members of the Tampa Bay Builders Association. So Hannah McAleer from Claireview Land Design and Bridget Demers from Level Up Consulting. So we worked over the last two years to tweak the landscape code a little bit to make it a little bit more friendly, improve some things that we needed to improve over time. So

   6:21I'll just first want to acknowledge that while I see Kathryn Starkey is not here, I have met with her and she was uh excited for these changes. So thought important to mention that. So just to start on some of the updates and improvements, I'm going to go ahead and read through this list relatively fast. If there's something in here that you want me to speak on specifically, feel free to stop me and I can talk about it. Uh so some of the improvements included uh allowing for tree sample surveys. Uh

   6:51updated the intent and purpose of our landscaping and buffering section of the code. We updated the invasive species references. We added language for the right tree in the right place, clarified and made it easier to use existing vegetation for buffers. Defined what a shade tree was, defined ornamental trees, clarified the use of palm trees, updated the ground cover planting requirements, added language about the proper maintenance of trees, added language about keeping future planting areas free of debris,

   7:22added requirements of one shade tree in the front yard of single family homes. We incorporated code section 905.3, which is residential street trees, into 905.2. We updated and clarified the vehicle use area requirements. We require landscape islands to go from eight feet wide to ten feet wide. uh added requirements for larger vehicles for vehicle use areas, clarified planting adjacent to building perimeter lands building perimeters allowed for

   7:52existing vegetation to qualify for buffers without alternative standard applications, Uh we revamped the buffer requirement table, revamped the buffer and screening requirements table, adjusted the vehicle dealership buffer, added standards for ponds adjacent to rights of way, and then we added a buffer graphic uh to the development review manual, added the tree list to the development review manual, um, added the quick use calculation templates to the development review manual, um, added some helpful. Links to the development review manual, and

   8:23there are some other minor fixes and tweaks that uh came along with that. Uh and then this is just an example of what some of those uh items that we're adding to the development review manual are. Um so you'll see we'll have a pictorial reference about what the buffers are supposed to look like. We have a tree list that was fully vetted by our arborists and our landscape experts, uh, and then of course those are the calculations. Mm-hmm.

   8:47So Any questions on any of that?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   8:50Any uh any input? It's the first reading? No.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   8:54Thank you very much.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   8:58Does this still have a tree in the front yard and one in the backyard? 'Cause I didn't see the hear the one in the backyard.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   9:05Um I d it depends. Uh depends on the size of the lot. Um so depending on the size of the lot, you're required to have uh one tree per lot. Um and that tree is required to be planted in the front of the lot.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   9:20I thought there were two trees that were supposed to be planted.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   9:23Uh so I think if it's less if if your lot is less than six thousand square feet, you only you're only required to have one tree on your lot. Um and then we're saying that you know, in some instances those trees can be planted in the front.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   9:44Do you know what is six thousand square feet in acreage?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   9:48Uh I I don't know that specifically six thousand divided by four, three, five, six. I don't know that off the top of my head.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   9:58Nate. Okay. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   10:00Okay.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   10:04Any other questions for staff?

   10:11Could please public comment?

   Ron Oakley

   10:14Um no one has signed up for item P 54 and no one is on WebEx.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   10:18Okay. Anyone from the public like to comment on the item?

   10:23Okay. This is the first reading so it'll c carry to the next one. No action is required. Oh that's okay. Okay, P fi item P fifty five. Thank you.

2. 2May 3, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP55Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation to include the noted revision to the interior landscaping by a roll call vote.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 7:52
   ▶ 7:5218m

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   7:52Item P fifty five was published in the Tampe Times on March sixteenth, twenty twenty-two.

   Denise

   7:57Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Commissioner. Item P fifty five is PDD twenty two zero two four one. Uh today is the adoption hearing on this item, so we ask that you accept public comment. And adopt by roll call vote. I'll read the ordinance title. It's an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Chapter 800, Natural and Cultural Resource Protection, Section 802, Tree Preservation and Replacement, Chapter 900, Development Standards, Section 905, Greek Space Requirements and Standards, Subsection 905.2, Landscaping and Buffering, Subsection 905.3,

   8:28Plantings and the Right of Way of Residential Subdivisions. for applicability repealer for providing for severability inclusions the land development code and an effective date. A full presentation on this item was done on April 19, 22, and uh this comes to you with a recommendation from the LPA that you find it the LPA found it consistent with a comprehensive plan and recommended approval to the Board of County Commissioners and that went to the LPA on April 7th.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   8:54So um board members I was not here um at the last meeting was at the ULI conference and so I did have a few things I wanted to um Bring up and um one I forgot to talk to you about but I'll bring up the one I talked to you about first. Um and I see Patrick's behind you. So um an example board members is um a development called the preserve and when they came in for their um commercial retail Um It came in as in one

   9:24big piece. And um can you speak to it in your language and on the problem and how we're gonna fix it?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   9:30Yeah, sure, I can do that. Um so we had a development that came in. Um

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   9:35for the record UR?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   9:37Yeah, sorry, for the record, uh Patrick Dutter, Planning and Development Department. Um thank you. Um so we had a a project come in for development. It

   9:45was

   9:45a commercial development and um that development came in as as one entire piece more or less with a whole bunch of different buildings around it. Uh we have a requirement in our code that's ha for lot perimeter landscaping, so you landscape around the lot. So all of this development was more or less considered one lot. So the internal landscaping between the buildings and really the internal sites wasn't really required to have any perimeter landscaping. The only landscaping that would have been required was vehicle

   10:15use area landscaping. Uh so I believe their request is for us to uh take a look at uh potentially uh having landscaping median uh planting requirements installed where uh that would be prevented in the future.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   10:31Well, um I don't know what the right term is and if you want to pull up um on Google Earth The preserve which is Sun Coast M fifty four uh we can sh show where the where the problem is. I actually have photographs, but I'm not gonna send them up to you now. I think if we just go to Google Earth you can see Um So in discussions with staff a a road internal to a development is not not doesn't have the same landscape requirements along the edge. And so for

   11:02example in Google or in the preserve is someone there? Um There's a Greenwise Publix. Have you guys been in there to the preserve? What's in my you know, fifty fifty four on the Sun Coast, that's one of our premier Intersections? Yeah,

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   11:19here you go.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   11:20So between the Greenwise Publix and uh I think it's a CVS and there's a Boltley. There's no there's no landscaping. The perimeter roads have nothing and the interior roads, I'm sorry, and and it looks really not premier. So I wanna make sure that we're catching those kind of Um situations in our landscape code. And so I'm not sure that

   11:50uh what you said was an I uh are we gonna call those islands, those

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   11:55Uh so we like you said we don't really have a definition for what that area is called. Um looking briefly at some other areas they call them uh landscape medians.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   12:07Landscape medians.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   12:08Uh which uh I was looking at Hartford's code, they call them landscape medians, though that area between the drive aisle and the parking stalls. Um landscape islands are the ones that jut out into the parking

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   12:19Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   12:20Uh so they were calling them landscape medians. We could, you know, tweak it a little bit to make it s um You know. Account for for what you're expecting to happen here for sure.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   12:31Okay, so um so do you see the um this is for my board members, do you see the preserve marketplace boulevard?

   Michael Hoover

   12:37Yeah.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   12:38Nothing. No landscaping. That's really sad. Um and so um and it's gonna happen when they add the other parcels. It's so that so uh and for some reason there's no you know, there's no perimeter landscaping around the public, so Somehow. I think there's a there's a flaw in our plan. And um I'm hoping that'll catch it. So

   Mike Moore

   13:03No Chair? Yeah. Just going back then aga so again Making the assumption here that's not a

   13:11In our code it basically says the frontage has to have the landscaping.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   13:16Uh essentially, yes.

   Mike Moore

   13:18Yeah, not okay. Even though in reality, like Chairman stated you have access on the side of this and it can be almost be considered Frontage in a way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So just something that when the code was random was missed. Yep.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   13:35Uh essentially, yeah. So there there are three big categories when it comes to landscaping. One is your lot perimeter landscaping, which is around the lot itself, which is like you said, the the frontages or the side properties. Uh then you have your building perimeter landscaping, which is right up next to the building, exactly how it sounds. And then we have the vehicle use area landscaping. So if you're in a vehicle use area, you're required to have ten percent of your vehicle use area. landscaped. Um so That's really the only thing. So because this is basically one giant

   14:05vehicle use area, they are really only required to meet that ten percent vehicle use area rule.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   14:11I'm not sure why we would call that a one vehicle use area. Seems like the vehicle use area should just for it should be for each pad, not for one hole. development.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   14:22Sure.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   14:23Um I can't think of any other place I'm gonna be paying more attention to it now, but when I drive into say Mitchell Ranch Plaza or I can't I can't think of any other place where people didn't just go ahead and put landscape in because that's it calls for it. But obviously if we don't require it They're not gonna put it in. So Um It's disappointing but uh so I think we've got that fixed. The the other question I have for you is um Um and I brought this up on a on a on

   14:53a conversation with uh industry. Um When a develop development comes in and they do a tree survey Um before before they and I'm not sure if this'll be in the same area, so if it's not we'll fix it somewhere else.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   15:09Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   15:10If they come in and they do a tree survey and we I guess we are messing with that here. Who goes back to see if those trees were actually planted and if they're still there? After time goes by.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   15:23Uh so good question. Um I believe that when the tree surveys are done, um they ha they'll hire professionals to go out there and do that tree survey. Uh and then I believe that is adopted, that tree survey is more or less well uh approved with the set of plans that we approve showing which areas are going to be removing trees and which ones aren't going to be removing trees. They will then develop according to that plan. And then we have our engineering inspections team will go up and follow up with plans that have been approved

   15:54to ensure that they are being constructed accordingly.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   15:57Yeah and I and from what I'm hearing that doesn't really happen that we don't assign someone to go and I'm talking I'm not talking

   16:05You know we have a tree for every house. But we also have requirements that they put trees um in open spaces and I I'm actually digging into the Key Vista plans. That was done a long time ago.

   Rick Warner

   16:17Right.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   16:17Um but I've always wondered how Key Vista can be there with no trees when Um that place was heavily wooded. when I came here. I don't know who else If anyone ever drove out to the Holiday Rec Center, Jack, I'm s you've been here a while. You drove through that tunnel of oak trees. The most beautiful road to get and and now there's no trees in that development. So I I just wanna make sure that we have a mechanism where we have staff that goes back and makes sure that the trees are there and And

   16:49So

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   16:50Sure. And and so that is what our engineering is so Key Vista I know is a pretty old subdivision. I don't know what regulations were in place at that time when it came to tree removal and replacement and that sort of thing.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:04Sure. It's just I think it's I don't it's just something that I think where we've dropped the ball, just like we're not holding commercial buildings to

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:13sure

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:13um Keep up their landscaping. We haven't been. I'm not sure we went and verified that what was needed got done. Okay. And is still there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   17:23So in in some instances so there there's a um a board imposed rule when it comes to removing trees that um you know, let's say you have a heavily dense um parcel, a very large parcel with a lot of trees on it, um there's a cap on how many trees you actually have to replace uh and how much you have to pay into our tree mitigation fund. Right. Um so that's probably what happens in some instances too where trees are removed and that type of thing.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   17:51Yeah. So Chairman Mari Madam Chair, sorry.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:56Either way.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   17:58You just said there's a max, so if they cut down two hundred trees they only have to I don't know what the max is. So if they cut down two hundred trees they would only have to do a max of one hundred trees of replanting?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   18:09Uh there there's a a threshold more or less, yes. I I mean it's it's much larger. It it's yeah, it's five

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   18:17inches or larger in circum and

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   18:20uh it's five I think it might be ten. Um but yeah. Right here. And but there is a cap and again the cap we're talking about with it's much larger areas that we're talking about.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   18:30If you can get me that number, that would be wonderful. Sure. Thank you, Henry.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   18:34Madam Chair.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   18:35I helped write that a long time ago. Yes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   18:37Um would the Um uh with the plan it says shade trees. Does that include palm trees?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   18:45So to use a palm tree as a shade tree, you have to use a grouping of three palms together to count as a shade tree. But you can't do that for every single shade tree, uh or other else some sites would be straight palm trees. So I think it's we allow up to thirty percent of the required shade trees to be palm trees in those groupings.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   19:04Do you think it's gonna prohibit or Keep people from putting in palm trees or no?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   19:10Um so we we all obviously allow the flexibility of doing alternative standards applications. So when we have projects that have a specific um For instance, a lot of projects near the beach, right, they'll want to put in those palm trees. We understand that our code requires shade trees, but sometimes a field near the beach is palm trees are are better, right? Um so they'll apply for an alternative standard and we'll allow them to plant palm trees instead of all those shade trees.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   19:37So like three tall palm trees instead of just one shade tree?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   19:41Correct.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:42And th they look funny when it's just one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   19:45And there are some species of palm trees that we allow to be planted by themselves. Um where we we're terming them as as grand palms more or less. And these are you know some of those massive species that you see. Um

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:57as Marcia.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   19:58Yeah, exactly. So those can count as a shade tree. Um but if you're using some of the smaller palm trees they have to be grouped in threes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   20:05When you say smaller, do you mean from installation or from growth?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   20:09Um when I what I mean f I mean I mean the thinner ones, uh the the palm trees that you're used to seeing driving down the road.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   20:16I mean they get some of the bush palms that probably go up a little bit of footage, maybe ten, fifteen feet or something, but there's other Other ones around that takes a while for them to grow, but they grow pretty tall. Um I just would hate to you may get some situations where a palm tree is gonna fit well not affect the sidewalk next to where you put a shade tree in there and now you get a situation where you're affecting sidewalks.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   20:39Yeah, that's that's why we love palm trees. And I also I also think that a palm tree may be better for uh s especially in in the frontage area for car dealers. So and we've talked about that in our meeting with um Larry Morgan and Scott Fink that Some ti they've been putting oak trees and that's not maybe the best thing to have over a bunch of cars, but they l they really like the idea of being able to use the palm trees.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   21:03So but having them in clusters of three, if you have like three of them all together, compared to if they were stretched out along the way, it may look better with them stretched out along the way. So quantity wise, I don't mind even increasing the quantity, but just having them to be clustered together I don't think is

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:19Depends on the look. But they can always ask for that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   21:22Sure. Yeah, th there's there's that's the one of the main reasons we have the alternative standard is for those instances where we want that flexibility.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   21:30I tell you alternate standards are just like a variance. It's we try to get away from variance. So I why why bring 'em through that? Just give them I'd rather just give them the option to Stretch out more of the palm trees than to have them clustered

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:43clustering. I think they can, right? You just have to it's the quantity is greater.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   21:47Without doing an alternative standard?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   21:48So so currently we the code will require them to be grouped in three.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   21:54So I'd rather have to group it.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   21:56If it's Madam Chair? If it's supposed to be a shade tree and then if it's on the corner, then it would be make sense to have a group of three on the corner of a lot or in the middle of a median or things like that because you want to provide shade. But I do like the fact of separating the palm trees if it's along the front edge of the road.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   22:20Open to the the board.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   22:22Depends on the the palm tree. You wouldn't cluster big trunk palm trees in a group of three. But

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   22:28you might

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   22:28the little thin ones. Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   22:31There there are quite a lot of factors that you know, different type of tree, different location, you know, there's a lot of that stuff. But currently the rule is, you know, yes, if you're going to replacing a shade tree, it needs to be a grouping of three palms.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   22:44All right. So w what I what I don't want to see is like up up on New Sun U S nineteen, northern Hudson, they've got palm trees in the median for part of their Yeah. Beautification. But they're really small. And they don't look good to me. the way they're set up. It would have been better if they were bigger, but work with DOT was a different issue. But I think if you have a larger tree it can stand alone by itself. I don't mind if we look at putting more of them in there. But just able to stagger them I think would be better than just having one in how in how far would they be

   23:14apart, normally a shade tree, twenty to thirty feet?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   23:16Uh if it's along a frontage it'll be thirty feet apart.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   23:19Thirty feet. So I

   23:20mean

   23:20I I do I don't even mind if we go like every ten feet with a palm tree.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   23:23Well they would they would have to put in three times the palm trees for every shade tree, whether they're I'm okay with that.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   23:30But let they need to stretch them up.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   23:32Like

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   23:33a colonial

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   23:34drive in certain

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   23:36Myers. Okay, yeah. So again we we just define it as grouping of three and we interpret it to be three really close together. So I I would think we could make that like can we

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   23:46add the I personally like it the way it is. Within ten feet apart from each other if it's a group of three?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   23:51I'm okay with just even ten feet apart. If they want to separate it, let let them decide how they want to set it, let them set their look.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   23:57S so so keep 'em together but let the let them figure out the design. Is that

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:02kinda crazy? Well I I'm inclined to leave it as it is. Um you guys?

   Mike Moore

   24:08I I think we spent enough time on this.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:10I know. That's why I need to hear from you. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause

   Mike Moore

   24:15we're going to do that.

   Ron Oakley

   24:17Do we have uh

   Mike Moore

   24:18all in favor? Aye.

   24:21Oh

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:21roll call. Okay, sorry.

   Mike Moore

   24:23I thought we did still. Except for

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:26the change.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   24:27Wait a second. You did you you didn't you took Patrick, you didn't take the public. No, no.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:31Oh I guess we'll let them

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:34I have no one signed up for P. Does

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:37anyone want

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:38to add it to our palm tree discussion?

   Mike Moore

   24:48I'll I'll say move for approval again. Second.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:51Can we hear I I wanna clarify if um with the changes for the interior

   Mike Moore

   24:56landscape. I would agree to that. So moved.

   Denise

   25:00Rock Hov.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   25:01Can we hear from Oh did you want to say something?

   Denise

   25:03Oh no, I was gonna uh get a clarification whether it's with the changes that you're proposing regarding the Yes, that's that is now commissioned.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   25:13District one, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Moore. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   25:21Seeing no one from the development committee stepping up? Aye.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   25:25Okay. District 3, Chairman Starkey.