An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code; Chapter 800 Natural And Cultural Resource Protection; Section 802 Tree Preservation And Replacement; Chapter 900 Development Standards; Section 905 Greenspace Requirements And Standards; Subsection 905.2 Landscaping And Buffering; Subsection 905.3 Plantings In Rights-of-Way of Residential Subdivisions; Providing For Applicability; Repealer; Providing For Severability; Inclusion Into The Land Development Code, And An Effective Date.
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionApproved
Approved Staff’s recommendation to include the noted revision to the interior landscaping by a roll call vote.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, May 3, 2022
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, May 3, 2022
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PDD-22-0241 in full →PDD-22-0241 was taken up 2 times between Apr 19, 2022 and May 3, 2022 — this is appearance 2.
- Apr 19, 2022BoardP54▶No action
- May 3, 2022BoardP55▶Approvedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 18m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 72% of 124 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Item P fifty five was published in the Tampe Times on March sixteenth, twenty twenty-two.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Commissioner. Item P fifty five is PDD twenty two zero two four one. Uh today is the adoption hearing on this item, so we ask that you accept public comment. And adopt by roll call vote. I'll read the ordinance title. It's an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Chapter 800, Natural and Cultural Resource Protection, Section 802, Tree Preservation and Replacement, Chapter 900, Development Standards, Section 905, Greek Space Requirements and Standards, Subsection 905.2, Landscaping and Buffering, Subsection 905.3,
Plantings and the Right of Way of Residential Subdivisions. for applicability repealer for providing for severability inclusions the land development code and an effective date. A full presentation on this item was done on April 19, 22, and uh this comes to you with a recommendation from the LPA that you find it the LPA found it consistent with a comprehensive plan and recommended approval to the Board of County Commissioners and that went to the LPA on April 7th.
So um board members I was not here um at the last meeting was at the ULI conference and so I did have a few things I wanted to um Bring up and um one I forgot to talk to you about but I'll bring up the one I talked to you about first. Um and I see Patrick's behind you. So um an example board members is um a development called the preserve and when they came in for their um commercial retail Um It came in as in one
big piece. And um can you speak to it in your language and on the problem and how we're gonna fix it?
Yeah, sure, I can do that. Um so we had a development that came in. Um
for the record UR?
Yeah, sorry, for the record, uh Patrick Dutter, Planning and Development Department. Um thank you. Um so we had a a project come in for development. It
was
a commercial development and um that development came in as as one entire piece more or less with a whole bunch of different buildings around it. Uh we have a requirement in our code that's ha for lot perimeter landscaping, so you landscape around the lot. So all of this development was more or less considered one lot. So the internal landscaping between the buildings and really the internal sites wasn't really required to have any perimeter landscaping. The only landscaping that would have been required was vehicle
use area landscaping. Uh so I believe their request is for us to uh take a look at uh potentially uh having landscaping median uh planting requirements installed where uh that would be prevented in the future.
Well, um I don't know what the right term is and if you want to pull up um on Google Earth The preserve which is Sun Coast M fifty four uh we can sh show where the where the problem is. I actually have photographs, but I'm not gonna send them up to you now. I think if we just go to Google Earth you can see Um So in discussions with staff a a road internal to a development is not not doesn't have the same landscape requirements along the edge. And so for
example in Google or in the preserve is someone there? Um There's a Greenwise Publix. Have you guys been in there to the preserve? What's in my you know, fifty fifty four on the Sun Coast, that's one of our premier Intersections? Yeah,
here you go.
So between the Greenwise Publix and uh I think it's a CVS and there's a Boltley. There's no there's no landscaping. The perimeter roads have nothing and the interior roads, I'm sorry, and and it looks really not premier. So I wanna make sure that we're catching those kind of Um situations in our landscape code. And so I'm not sure that
uh what you said was an I uh are we gonna call those islands, those
Uh so we like you said we don't really have a definition for what that area is called. Um looking briefly at some other areas they call them uh landscape medians.
Landscape medians.
Uh which uh I was looking at Hartford's code, they call them landscape medians, though that area between the drive aisle and the parking stalls. Um landscape islands are the ones that jut out into the parking
Yeah.
Uh so they were calling them landscape medians. We could, you know, tweak it a little bit to make it s um You know. Account for for what you're expecting to happen here for sure.
Okay, so um so do you see the um this is for my board members, do you see the preserve marketplace boulevard?
Yeah.
Nothing. No landscaping. That's really sad. Um and so um and it's gonna happen when they add the other parcels. It's so that so uh and for some reason there's no you know, there's no perimeter landscaping around the public, so Somehow. I think there's a there's a flaw in our plan. And um I'm hoping that'll catch it. So
No Chair? Yeah. Just going back then aga so again Making the assumption here that's not a
In our code it basically says the frontage has to have the landscaping.
Uh essentially, yes.
Yeah, not okay. Even though in reality, like Chairman stated you have access on the side of this and it can be almost be considered Frontage in a way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So just something that when the code was random was missed. Yep.
Uh essentially, yeah. So there there are three big categories when it comes to landscaping. One is your lot perimeter landscaping, which is around the lot itself, which is like you said, the the frontages or the side properties. Uh then you have your building perimeter landscaping, which is right up next to the building, exactly how it sounds. And then we have the vehicle use area landscaping. So if you're in a vehicle use area, you're required to have ten percent of your vehicle use area. landscaped. Um so That's really the only thing. So because this is basically one giant
vehicle use area, they are really only required to meet that ten percent vehicle use area rule.
I'm not sure why we would call that a one vehicle use area. Seems like the vehicle use area should just for it should be for each pad, not for one hole. development.
Sure.
Um I can't think of any other place I'm gonna be paying more attention to it now, but when I drive into say Mitchell Ranch Plaza or I can't I can't think of any other place where people didn't just go ahead and put landscape in because that's it calls for it. But obviously if we don't require it They're not gonna put it in. So Um It's disappointing but uh so I think we've got that fixed. The the other question I have for you is um Um and I brought this up on a on a on
a conversation with uh industry. Um When a develop development comes in and they do a tree survey Um before before they and I'm not sure if this'll be in the same area, so if it's not we'll fix it somewhere else.
Okay.
If they come in and they do a tree survey and we I guess we are messing with that here. Who goes back to see if those trees were actually planted and if they're still there? After time goes by.
Uh so good question. Um I believe that when the tree surveys are done, um they ha they'll hire professionals to go out there and do that tree survey. Uh and then I believe that is adopted, that tree survey is more or less well uh approved with the set of plans that we approve showing which areas are going to be removing trees and which ones aren't going to be removing trees. They will then develop according to that plan. And then we have our engineering inspections team will go up and follow up with plans that have been approved
to ensure that they are being constructed accordingly.
Yeah and I and from what I'm hearing that doesn't really happen that we don't assign someone to go and I'm talking I'm not talking
You know we have a tree for every house. But we also have requirements that they put trees um in open spaces and I I'm actually digging into the Key Vista plans. That was done a long time ago.
Right.
Um but I've always wondered how Key Vista can be there with no trees when Um that place was heavily wooded. when I came here. I don't know who else If anyone ever drove out to the Holiday Rec Center, Jack, I'm s you've been here a while. You drove through that tunnel of oak trees. The most beautiful road to get and and now there's no trees in that development. So I I just wanna make sure that we have a mechanism where we have staff that goes back and makes sure that the trees are there and And
So
Sure. And and so that is what our engineering is so Key Vista I know is a pretty old subdivision. I don't know what regulations were in place at that time when it came to tree removal and replacement and that sort of thing.
Sure. It's just I think it's I don't it's just something that I think where we've dropped the ball, just like we're not holding commercial buildings to
sure
um Keep up their landscaping. We haven't been. I'm not sure we went and verified that what was needed got done. Okay. And is still there.
So in in some instances so there there's a um a board imposed rule when it comes to removing trees that um you know, let's say you have a heavily dense um parcel, a very large parcel with a lot of trees on it, um there's a cap on how many trees you actually have to replace uh and how much you have to pay into our tree mitigation fund. Right. Um so that's probably what happens in some instances too where trees are removed and that type of thing.
Yeah. So Chairman Mari Madam Chair, sorry.
Either way.
You just said there's a max, so if they cut down two hundred trees they only have to I don't know what the max is. So if they cut down two hundred trees they would only have to do a max of one hundred trees of replanting?
Uh there there's a a threshold more or less, yes. I I mean it's it's much larger. It it's yeah, it's five
inches or larger in circum and
uh it's five I think it might be ten. Um but yeah. Right here. And but there is a cap and again the cap we're talking about with it's much larger areas that we're talking about.
If you can get me that number, that would be wonderful. Sure. Thank you, Henry.
Madam Chair.
I helped write that a long time ago. Yes.
Um would the Um uh with the plan it says shade trees. Does that include palm trees?
So to use a palm tree as a shade tree, you have to use a grouping of three palms together to count as a shade tree. But you can't do that for every single shade tree, uh or other else some sites would be straight palm trees. So I think it's we allow up to thirty percent of the required shade trees to be palm trees in those groupings.
Do you think it's gonna prohibit or Keep people from putting in palm trees or no?
Um so we we all obviously allow the flexibility of doing alternative standards applications. So when we have projects that have a specific um For instance, a lot of projects near the beach, right, they'll want to put in those palm trees. We understand that our code requires shade trees, but sometimes a field near the beach is palm trees are are better, right? Um so they'll apply for an alternative standard and we'll allow them to plant palm trees instead of all those shade trees.
So like three tall palm trees instead of just one shade tree?
Correct.
And th they look funny when it's just one.
And there are some species of palm trees that we allow to be planted by themselves. Um where we we're terming them as as grand palms more or less. And these are you know some of those massive species that you see. Um
as Marcia.
Yeah, exactly. So those can count as a shade tree. Um but if you're using some of the smaller palm trees they have to be grouped in threes.
When you say smaller, do you mean from installation or from growth?
Um when I what I mean f I mean I mean the thinner ones, uh the the palm trees that you're used to seeing driving down the road.
I mean they get some of the bush palms that probably go up a little bit of footage, maybe ten, fifteen feet or something, but there's other Other ones around that takes a while for them to grow, but they grow pretty tall. Um I just would hate to you may get some situations where a palm tree is gonna fit well not affect the sidewalk next to where you put a shade tree in there and now you get a situation where you're affecting sidewalks.
Yeah, that's that's why we love palm trees. And I also I also think that a palm tree may be better for uh s especially in in the frontage area for car dealers. So and we've talked about that in our meeting with um Larry Morgan and Scott Fink that Some ti they've been putting oak trees and that's not maybe the best thing to have over a bunch of cars, but they l they really like the idea of being able to use the palm trees.
So but having them in clusters of three, if you have like three of them all together, compared to if they were stretched out along the way, it may look better with them stretched out along the way. So quantity wise, I don't mind even increasing the quantity, but just having them to be clustered together I don't think is
Depends on the look. But they can always ask for that.
Sure. Yeah, th there's there's that's the one of the main reasons we have the alternative standard is for those instances where we want that flexibility.
I tell you alternate standards are just like a variance. It's we try to get away from variance. So I why why bring 'em through that? Just give them I'd rather just give them the option to Stretch out more of the palm trees than to have them clustered
clustering. I think they can, right? You just have to it's the quantity is greater.
Without doing an alternative standard?
So so currently we the code will require them to be grouped in three.
So I'd rather have to group it.
If it's Madam Chair? If it's supposed to be a shade tree and then if it's on the corner, then it would be make sense to have a group of three on the corner of a lot or in the middle of a median or things like that because you want to provide shade. But I do like the fact of separating the palm trees if it's along the front edge of the road.
Open to the the board.
Depends on the the palm tree. You wouldn't cluster big trunk palm trees in a group of three. But
you might
the little thin ones. Yeah.
There there are quite a lot of factors that you know, different type of tree, different location, you know, there's a lot of that stuff. But currently the rule is, you know, yes, if you're going to replacing a shade tree, it needs to be a grouping of three palms.
All right. So w what I what I don't want to see is like up up on New Sun U S nineteen, northern Hudson, they've got palm trees in the median for part of their Yeah. Beautification. But they're really small. And they don't look good to me. the way they're set up. It would have been better if they were bigger, but work with DOT was a different issue. But I think if you have a larger tree it can stand alone by itself. I don't mind if we look at putting more of them in there. But just able to stagger them I think would be better than just having one in how in how far would they be
apart, normally a shade tree, twenty to thirty feet?
Uh if it's along a frontage it'll be thirty feet apart.
Thirty feet. So I
mean
I I do I don't even mind if we go like every ten feet with a palm tree.
Well they would they would have to put in three times the palm trees for every shade tree, whether they're I'm okay with that.
But let they need to stretch them up.
Like
a colonial
drive in certain
Myers. Okay, yeah. So again we we just define it as grouping of three and we interpret it to be three really close together. So I I would think we could make that like can we
add the I personally like it the way it is. Within ten feet apart from each other if it's a group of three?
I'm okay with just even ten feet apart. If they want to separate it, let let them decide how they want to set it, let them set their look.
S so so keep 'em together but let the let them figure out the design. Is that
kinda crazy? Well I I'm inclined to leave it as it is. Um you guys?
I I think we spent enough time on this.
I know. That's why I need to hear from you. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause
we're going to do that.
Do we have uh
all in favor? Aye.
Oh
roll call. Okay, sorry.
I thought we did still. Except for
the change.
Wait a second. You did you you didn't you took Patrick, you didn't take the public. No, no.
Oh I guess we'll let them
I have no one signed up for P. Does
anyone want
to add it to our palm tree discussion?
I'll I'll say move for approval again. Second.
Can we hear I I wanna clarify if um with the changes for the interior
landscape. I would agree to that. So moved.
Rock Hov.
Can we hear from Oh did you want to say something?
Oh no, I was gonna uh get a clarification whether it's with the changes that you're proposing regarding the Yes, that's that is now commissioned.
District one, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Moore. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.
Seeing no one from the development committee stepping up? Aye.
Okay. District 3, Chairman Starkey.