PDD-22-7588

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Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 77% of 350 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Jul 7, 2022
   Planning CommissionPC10Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 25:44
   ▶ 25:4431m

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   25:44I'm sorry, PC ten, sorry. Sorry about that.

   Liam Devine

   25:52Liam Devine, Planning and Development, PC ten.

   25:57Joy Drive North, M P U D, P D twenty two dep dash seven five eighty eight. The subject site is located on the north side of Dog Patch Lane, approximately three hundred and ninety feet west of Joy Drive, and abutting Joy Drive approximately six hundred and fifty feet north of Dog Patch Lane. This is in

   Stacey Burgess

   26:17Oh.

   Liam Devine

   26:19This is an aerial view of the site.

   26:23The surrounding future land use is Res3. Here is a look at the current zoning.

   26:31The applicant is requesting a rezoning from AC Agricultural District and AR Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD master plan unit development on approximately 45.3 acres, with a maximum of 107 single-family detached dwelling units. The applicant is requesting the following deviations to the Land Development Code. LDC section 901.6.d.11, street design and dedication requirements, and LDC 901.1.8, transportation corridor

   27:02spacing and special design requirements for subdivision collectors.

   27:08Staff has reviewed these variations and found that with each LDC section, the connection to the west is to Joy Drive, a county-maintained dirt road and will be used for emergency access only. There is an existing homes and driveways on Joy Drive, emergency access. only will allow less disruption to these existing homes and driveways. and still provide proper traffic circulation. Um in addition, an interconnect

   27:38to the west would also require potential impacts to a category one wetland. Additionally, the location of a stormwater pond in a natural low-lying spot on the site, which is a common location for ponds, that would be to the southwest. The southwest parcel that would potentially connect to this MPUD development has a floodplain and continuation of the category one wetland from the north, which provides obstacles for this parcel, providing interconnections. Here is a look at the

   28:08master plan.

   28:11The subject site consists of single family dwelling and mobile slash manufactured homes on approximately forty-five point three acres. The applicant proposes to develop the property with a maximum of 107 single-family detached dwelling units, subject to the comprehensive plan.

   28:28The surrounding areas characterized by residential development consisting of single-family detached dwellings, the Oakstead MPUD to the west, mobile slash manufactured homes, and the Pasco County Animal Service Center. The subject site has a future land use classification of Res3. And this is coming with a recommendation with approvals from the Planning and Development Department. I'm here if you have any questions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   28:52Okay. Thank you, Liam. Is the applicant present?

   Barbara Wilhite

   29:02Good afternoon. Barbara Wilhite, 6327, Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey 34652. Welcome New Planning Commission Member Moody. Thank you. My neighbor. At my office. So this project is consistent with the Res 3 land use classification. For the property. It's had the Res 3 land use designation for about 30 years. And it's also being served by Central Water and Sewer. And the minimum density for a project to be served

   29:32by water and sewer is the Res 3 land use. So it's the plan for this property is to have this type of density on it, served by Central Water and Sewer. It's also in the South Market area and the urban service. Yeah. With regard to Joy Drive, you saw the presentation from Liam, very good presentation. Regard to Joy Drive, existing dirt road. Uh we're only given emergency access to that road. I would note that that existing dirt road is on my client's property. So they were asked, hey, would you help the neighborhood by basically giving

   30:02the right-of-way an easement so that they have an actual road that's allowed to exist on their property? So that's actually something that'll benefit the community to the current situation of the fact that there's a road on somebody else's property that they use to access. Yeah. So my client not required by the code, but my client uh being a good neighbor agreed to do that. I have with me my my client, uh Mac uh Mac Mc I my client Mac. Just drew a blank. And um Steve Henry, if

   30:32there's any uh issues regarding transportation. I have not heard personally from any of the folks that may want to speak, so I don't know exactly what they want to speak about. And so in uh we would reserve our time and rebuttal to uh to speak to address whatever they might uh bring up.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   30:46Thank you. Okay, thank you, Barbara. Yeah.

   30:51Okay, um anyone here to speak on this item again please when you come forward state your name and address and uh just go ahead and reference the item you're here to just talk about.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   31:06Hello, my name is Kathryn Baxter-Polenitza. I live at [address removed], located in the Marchmont subdivision of Oakstead. I'm coming here on behalf of a lot of my neighbors who live in that subdivision and most of Oakstead as well to bring up some of the concerns that we have with this development going in. I have contacted my attorney. He is not able to be present here today, but we'll set up a memo and send that to you guys. A big portion of the

   31:37why the reason why I'm here today is because of the wildlife that we have. Um I know my neighbors see gopher tortoises pretty frequently. Um they are an endangered species. They have um just as much right to be in their area as possible. Um and when with this development what I'm seeing is it's looking like our wetland is going to be enclosed. Um enclosed off. I know you're not touching that wetland, but what you're doing is causing an issue with them their gene pool that they'll

   32:07be able to to have. And that's very devastating for an endangered species. We also have concerns con uh about the schools. Our schools are completely overpacked right now. We have portables at all of our Oakstead Elementary Schools. We have issues with traffic. I've seen myself fire trucks not be able to get to where they need to go because of the amount of traffic that we have on Lake Patients. So these are some serious concerns that we have

   32:37as neighbors. Unfortunately, a lot of my neighbors couldn't be here today because of the time of this meeting in the middle of the work week, but I wanted to come forward and state that we do have a lot of concerns and I think that this um This is not in the best interest of our wetlands, our protected n our protected wildlife and uh Yeah, I I just I I wanna I want more answers and I'm hoping that we will be able to stop this. Thank you.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:07Can I ask her a couple of questions?

   33:11Who told you that the gopher tortoise is an endangered species?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   33:15I know that from my own research. It's a protected species.

   33:22Yes, and I know that with in uh protected species such as gopher tortoises, they burrow underground for up to twenty-five feet. That are their connective routes. Um however I know that within twenty-five feet of one of their burrows, there cannot be any construction built. On it.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:40Correct, unless they acquire the required permits to relo relocate the gopher tortoise, and that's commonly done.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   33:47Absolutely. It it is commonly done, but

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   33:50so is there a specific reason it shouldn't be done here? They're brought to a gopher tortoise reserve or sanctuary.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   33:57Absolutely, there's a reason. This is their natural habitat, this is where they have been, this is where they should be. I don't believe that building on their land and relocating them is is right, is correct. I think that these animals are here for a reason. I believe that We're going to block in this wetland. There's developments that are coming in everywhere. There's nowhere for these animals to go.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   34:21If I got the plans and permits for the subdivision you live in, would I find that gopher tortoises were relocated?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   34:29Can you repeat that question?

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   34:30I said if I got the plans and permits that were issued for the construction of your subdivision. Would I find that gopher tortoise were relocated?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   34:39Uh you know, I'm not too sure on that. However, I do believe that there are current animals right there, and that's just one animal that I'm talking about. We have species of birds that we've seen which are endangered animals. So I think that blocking in this wetland is is Is wrong. I think that you're not allowing these animals to have the gene pool that they need to be able to reproduce to keep them. uh flourishing in our environment. I understand your concern.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   35:06One other question. Why do you feel it necessary to retain an attorney and send a memo to us?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   35:14I feel that's necessary because I feel like this is a a very big destructive Um

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   35:20is your are you Stating that there's some violation of law going on here?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   35:26No, I consulted my attorney. I believe that I should be able to consult an attorney on matters that are going on in my backyard.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   35:34Okay, thank you.

   35:38Okay. Um I think there was one more.

   Ron Ruprecht

   35:51Good afternoon. My name is Ron Ruprecht. I live on Mitchell Road, which is uh on the other side of Lake Patience from this, and b between Lake Patience and L and Little Lake Patience is where I live, actually seventeen hundred feet from the property we're talking about. We do have quite a bit of deer in the neighborhood and all that Wetlands is part of the habitat of uh quite a large herd of deer in through there.

   36:21That's not why I'm here. I'm here because of the positioning of this uh um subdivision and now I understand that it's a trailer subdivision, which we've got enough of that in the area of which I live around, but my house I'm trying to improve. But All of Oakstead is higher level housing. And now you're going to put 107 houses, probably two cars per house, that is going to

   36:51dump out right next to Oakstead Elementary School on Lake Patience. I am the president at Turbine Diagnostic Services at uh on Gun Highway and my primary route is across Lake Patients in front of uh Uh Oakestead Elementary. My wife takes our kids to Oakstead Elementary. This is my neighborhood. But you're gonna put two more hundred more cars in the neighborhood dumping out right into the worst congested

   37:22area of our county in the morning and in the afternoon when this school is is going in session and letting out a session. It's impassable. There's probably up to a half hour delay. uh in the morning and the afternoon depending on which direction you're going. And now to the east of that area is another rental home subdivision going on and another on just further east of

   37:52that is another subdivision, Lake Patients is going to have to be a four-lane road with turn To accommodate this elementary school. This isn't really good planning. And everything is going on on Tower Road. which is right on the other side of this forty acres, the forty five acres, And the access to in and out of this property should be into Tower Road, which is under development, plans

   38:22for expansion, and can accommodate this. I'm not sure that even the people, the new kids in the neighborhood are going to be able to fit into Oakstead Elementary. It was full before it opened. Um I am concerned about the wetlands as well. 'cause they are part of an integral wetlands that ties in with Lake Patience and Little Lake Patience. And Lake Patience was ruined by a um uh wood mill back

   38:52in the eighteen hundreds and um We don't need any more destruction or deterioration of our wetlands there. Little Lake Patience is has been cleaned up here in the last decade and is looking really good and we gotta be careful with the wetlands in this area. But There's Lake Patience Road is impassable and you're gonna add more to that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   39:20Okay. Thank you, sir. Yes, ma'am.

   Ron Ruprecht

   39:25[address removed]. Gland the legs.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   39:30Thank you. Okay, is there anybody else here to speak? Okay, please uh come to the front.

   Barbara Heck

   39:40Hello, my name is Barbara Heck. I live at [address removed] in the Oakstead community. Uh I wasn't going to speak but he brought up that gentleman that spoke before me brought up a a really good Point. You cannot get through. Lake Patience at school time. I try to deviate, go around the other way, go through Sun Lake or whatever, even when it's a shorter way for me to go there. that is just not impassable and I wonder

   40:10if emergency vehicles ever had to get through there at small time, they would not. Your house would burn down or somebody could die in a car accident. It's terrible. And you are going to add more. And that brings up if this subdivision is was zoned for a hundred and two. Why are we allowing a hundred and seven? We have such tremendous growth here. And it just We don't need to add more to it. If it's

   40:40already zoned for that, that's a point. You don't have to increase it. We the schools are overcrowded there. I happen to live on the preserve. We do have tons of deer come right in my yard all the time. I can't even keep my plants growing because they're eating them all. But It's beautiful back there. There's a lot of birds and hawks and all kinds of l wildlife in there. And I'm so afraid that this is going to Scatter them to who knows where because even down

   41:11in that Dog Patch Lane area there's another subdivision going in there. So How much can we absorb? And do these places pay impact fee for the roads and the schools. So that's all I have to say. But please Give it some real thought. Where we're going to hold the line. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   41:35Okay, and mayam just real quick use the direction. Yeah.

   Barbara Heck

   41:40No.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   41:41Yeah. If you c if you can just please raise your right please raise your right hand and she'll swear you in. Yeah, there's one.

   41:55Thank you. And one more?

   42:00I should ask this before, but while you're on your way up, have you been sworn? She needs to be sworn too, so they they tried to warn me up here, but I was too slow.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   42:11Do you swear from the testimony you were about to give the three so long you got? Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   42:18Hi, I'm Debbie Moore. I live at [address removed] and we live right adjacent to the Kristen Lane Grove, the Kristen Joy Grove, Joy Drive Grove that was approved in September for 54 houses. and we are in a pierce swampland and that's what I'm wanting Sean. You guys see pictures up here that look like that. We are in class one wetlands. We live in the only spot on our six acres that isn't wetlands. And it's pure swamp everywhere. Show them son. You guys look at stuff on a piece of paper, they show a

   42:48piece of green and you think you can put houses there. And it's like when Oakstead came in in nineteen ninety nine. We filled up the whole commissioners everywhere the port the um Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   42:59Go move around, Sean, show them.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   43:02Anyway, we filled up the whole commissioners hearing at the Oakstead hearings back in nineteen ninety nine and everyone just totally ignores that now. We were like very rural back then. We defended it back then. We're just getting pounded and pounded and getting slammed in as tight as you can possibly get. It's like it's just very wrong. If you could pass these pictures around just um Yes, I don't see the stand either at all.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   43:31Yeah, there you go. And then just just to clarify for when you're speaking, we won't hold this against your time, but The the applicant gets the rebuttal. You get this is your three minutes to present.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   43:40Okay, I understand. Last time the lawyer told them all kinds of false stuff and we were we were told Lake Patience Road used to be high functioning, go straight on through, and never did. They were we were told that um there was no problem on Lake Patience Road with traffic. There have been deaths out at Lake Patience Road and Chris and forty one. This is a very, very horrible road. At night there are people in black clothes, bicycles, baby strollers. Um Baby uh carts from the people live in the woods back there too still that go up and down that road at night and you do not see them. My daughter had people on either side of the road and she called me crying 'cause she they were both right there on Lake

   44:10Hations Road in the dark of night and this is continuous. That's in front of the new rental homes. Anyway, you guys you need to pay attention to what you're doing to the county because you don't walk the property, you don't know what it's like.

   44:23Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   44:24Okay. Thank you.

   44:33I think she wants these pictures back, so

   attorney to the tourist development council

   44:35I yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   44:41Okay. Is there anybody else?

   44:45Okay, the applicant's rebuttal.

   Barbara Wilhite

   44:54Barbara Wilhai for the applicant. I think the issues regarding wildlife have been covered by Planning Commission Member Moody. We have done a wildlife survey. We do have the requirements for us regarding gopher tortoises that'll maybe be complied with. Not like you said, just like the neighborhood that she has moved into. Um back then We didn't have to relocate growth of tortoises. They were allowed to be buried. So we're actually Yeah. things have progressed now and there's more protections for Gotha tortoises over time. The

   45:24um As far as schools goes, we have been reviewed by the school board. We have our school capacity review. We have to do school concurrency at the time of site plan review. um redevelopment plan review excuse me and we will do that. I do have regarding traffic um I have uh Mr. Henry here with um with us that can go over traffic I would say with regard to the the one person that spoke that's gonna hire an attorney, I can tell you that we have met all the requirements. Um your staff, the

   45:55staff goes through all of that very carefully to make sure that we meet all the requirements and even asks for more things like the joy drive easement.

   46:04We do have an interconnection to the north. I know there was a comment regarding access to tower. Um if you look at the at the master plan. We um our project is not adjacent to towers, so what we have to do and what the code requires us to do is provide for that interconnection. So if there's a project to the north then we interconnect to the project to the north. and so forth to Tower Road. So we w we'll be providing that connection as noted on our M PUD plan. The issue regarding uh 102 versus 107, it is 107. It's just a process under the comp plan that's

   46:35the maximum density. It's just a process. The code says you have to do a conservation easement. To be to have that density conservation easement over the category one wetlands. So it's a process, but the maximum density under the complaint is one hundred seven.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   46:49So there's no proposal to impact wetlands.

   Barbara Wilhite

   46:52That's correct. Correct. Do we have any impact to wetlands?

   Ron Ruprecht

   46:57I will

   Barbara Wilhite

   46:59tiny

   Ron Ruprecht

   47:00half major of less than it's just that it's a tiny

   Barbara Wilhite

   47:03A tiny impact.

   47:12It's not part of the category one wetland system. It appears to be an isolated wetland, a small isolated wetland. But our density bonus is coming off of The density under the comp plan between 102 and 107 is coming from the category one wetland. That's being preserved. In order to get that the county. is now requiring it's actually been in the code for a very long time. uh conservation easement. So you'll see our Our memos are starting to be written differently and I think that's why the confusion because it normally would just say 107, but

   47:42the county wants to make sure that we do a conservation easement over the category one wet one in addition to plaiding it as conservation and deeding it to a homeowners association or CDD, we now have this extra step which gives attorneys more things to do. Yeah, and we do pay school impact fees and mobility fees. Um that was one of the questions. And uh with that, um at with regard to the plan for this area, it is Res 3, it is the urban service area, it is the area where the county has invested in

   48:12water and sewer, it is the area for for the density, and we're complying with all the requirements of the code to develop at that density in this location. I'll let Steve talk to you a little more about transportation. Thank you.

   Chris Williams

   48:24Can you help me understand the logic be with the mobile homes? Really?

   Barbara Wilhite

   48:31Yes, I don't know I actually I meant to I have under quotations here. I'm not sure how we're the trailer subdivision we are. Single family homes. Um single family detached homes. It's Madame Homes. And we are complying with the board policy. The board has put policies in place about how they want trees done and how they want um different things done for fifty foot lots and so forth. And we didn't and so we're complying with that. But there's no it's all single family detached homes.

   48:59No, single family detached homes.

   Chris Williams

   49:01Okay. Well then How did the young lady uh indicate mobile homes? Is there just a misunderstanding?

   Barbara Wilhite

   49:11I could you expla I wasn't me.

   Liam Devine

   49:16So on the presentation, it talks about what's currently on the site. So this parse uh this project c comprises of multiple um sites. So there are single-family homes and then mobile manufactured homes currently on the site. So under the current zoning today, those are allowed. Under this MQUD proposed zoning, that would not be allowed. it would only be single family detached dwellings allowed. Does that explain it?

   Chris Williams

   49:40Okay. So what happens to the mobile homes that are there now?

   Liam Devine

   49:44They would have to be removed.

   Chris Williams

   49:45Okay, that's what I w Thank you. Just need clarification on that one. And we're gonna talk about traffic, right? Yes. Okay.

   Henry

   49:52Steve Henry Linkson Associates 5023 West Laurel Tampa 33607. We did conduct the timing and phasing and access management analysis in accordance with the county criteria. And we looked at the Lake Patients Drive, and that currently has a VC ratio, volume to capacity ratio with our project of 0.69. So that operates within the adopted level of service and VC ratio for the roadway. In addition to that, we looked at the

   50:22intersection of Lake Patients in Joy Drive. Based on the analysis, left turn lane would not be warranted at that location. However, the developer has committed to put in a left turn lane at that location. So they will be doing that as a part of the development. Of the project. As far as the school, the school hours are actually 9:40 and 3:50. So they fall outside the normal peak hour for residential homes. Yes, we will have some traffic, but the reality is most of our traffic happens between the hours of seven to

   50:52nine and four to six when people are going to and from work. So the school is actually an off-peak period as opposed to a a normal street peak. Period. So our impact on that road at that point in time would be minimal. So that concludes my presentation unless anyone's got any questions for me. Yes.

   Chris Williams

   51:21Do we have a timing yet of when Tower Road is going to

   Henry

   51:24be completed up that far or do we know yet? Um I I do not. I know that I believe and again I that the county is doing a P D and E study to figure out whether or not When that will go up and and what the timing is. But I I have not looked into that in detail. Thank you. Thank you.

   Christopher Poole

   51:42Chris, the subject of uh school capacity came up a couple of times related to Oakstead and kind of surrounding schools. Can you speak to that?

   Chris Williams

   51:49Sure. So as you might imagine, um, you know, the schools along the entire corridor of fifty-four and fifty-six. are challenging right now with the growth. So So we have overcrowded conditions at Starkey Ranch and uh Bexley Elementary and Oakstead Elementary and um Conerton and um many of the Western Chapel schools as well. And so with the with the you know, and so we

   52:19we are adding capacity. As we can. So we actually have in this area a new K-8 that'll be we're working on constructing to open by 2025. and that school will um Take a look at the easy. probably all of Oakstead's boundary that is currently south of fifty four. So that'll provide significant relief to Oakstead at that time and also provide some relief to Bexley.

   52:51We are hoping that that K-8 school will have enough capacity that other folks can choice into that school as well who might have um might want to have the K-8 experience and provide additional relief to Oakstead.

   53:08And then, you know, and I won't go into the other projects we're working on in Wesley Chapel to mitigate the overcrowding and that. Yeah. Um certainly traffic is an issue when when When you have an overcrowded school and even a non-overcrowded school with a bus driver shortage we have, certainly more people are driving. We're actually looking to try to expand the drop-off, the pickup and drop-off loop at Oakstead and try to uh add some capacity to that. It's not gonna solve the problem. Um but

   53:38it will help. Um certainly this uh project will add, you know, probably about 20 elementary school students to this particular school if and if in fact all of those decide to go to Oakstead. Many choose to go elsewhere to magnet schools or charter schools. Um but we would add twenty, the the vast majority of the growth in the Oakstead boundary is is finished. But certainly there is some you

   54:09know, growth coming still to the Oakstead boundary, but again the um the addition of the K eight school uh on the south side of fifty four uh over by Ballantre will uh is planned to provide the bulk of the relief to Oakstead in a couple of years.

   Christopher Poole

   54:27Thanks, sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   54:28Mm-hmm.

   54:31Okay, is there any uh anything else from up here?

   54:38I guess obviously just before we uh before we take a motion, uh I mean this is a comment any time there's development. Yeah, we s we sit up here and we hear these same things all the time, um traffic, uh environmental Habitat, wetlands, all all those kind of same things. I mean I remind everybody a couple of things. First and foremost, this is only at the zoning level. This isn't the construction plan approval. A lot of those items will be addressed at construction level. Um also there's other agencies out there and th there's a

   55:08lot of agencies and a lot of review that goes on. John mentioned and brought up about the gopher tortoises and and the the time and the money and the the effort that's required for relocation and protection of those species. There's things in the county ordinances that protect the wetlands. I mean in this site there's class one wetlands that are pretty highly protected. um within the comprehensive plan of the county. So, I mean, a lot of the provisions have been made to um address the specifically the things that everybody's brought up here today. So Just wanted to um I

   55:40don't

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   55:40know.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   55:41Is there a motion? We move to recommend approval of item PC 10.

   Chris Williams

   55:47I'm second

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   55:48it. Okay, there's a motion and a second. Any other further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries.

   Denise

   56:05Okay Planning Commission members. Um off this item you're sitting as the LPA, the local planning agency. This item is going to be presented by my esteemed uh colleagues with the with building construction services, but I just wanted to um To to basically introduce the item. It's BCS twenty two zero two seven zero and it's an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners and it's modif modifying Land Development Code Section eleven oh four flood damage prevention. Um I do want to bring your attention to Denise,

2. 2Aug 9, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP93Public hearingApproved

   Zoning Amendment (Consent) (Regular) – Roy N Geraci … North of Dogpatch Lane

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation including the noted revision to add 8 foot sidewalks to one side internally facing the project.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:29:58
   ▶ 1:29:5844m

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:29:58Right. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. We are on to ninety-four. Ninety three. Ninety-three, sorry.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:30:05Item P ninety three was published in the Tampay Times on June twenty-second, twenty twenty-two.

   Liam Devine

   1:30:12Liam Divine Planning and Development. Item P ninety three, P D twenty two. Dash seven five eight eight in the name of Joy Drive M P U D. The subject site is currently located on the north side of Dog Patch Lane, approximately three hundred and ninety feet west of Joy Drive, and abutting Joy Drive, approximately six hundred and fifty feet north of Dog Patch Lane. Here's a look at the aerial view. Here is a look at the surrounding future land use and here's a look at the current

   1:30:42zoning. The applicant is requesting a rezoning from AC Agricultural District and AR Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD master plan unit development on approximately 45.3 acres with a maximum of 107 single-family detached dwellings. The applicant is requesting variations from LDC section 901.6.11 street design and dedication requirements and 901.1.8 transportation corridor spacing and

   1:31:12special design requirements. Staff has identified the following. The connection to the east is to Joy Drive, a county-maintained dirt road. will have emergency access only. There are existing homes with driveways along Joy Drive. Emergency access will result in less disruption to those existing homes. An interconnection to the west would also requ require a potential impact to a category one wetland.

   1:31:44Additionally, the location of a stormwater pond in a natural low lying spot to the southwest would interrupt that wetland and interconnection to the west. And then the southwest parcel. Could potentially connect to the MPUD as a floodplain and continuation of the category wetland that would make this project hard to develop.

   1:32:06Here's a look at the current master plane.

   1:32:11The subject site consists of a single family dwelling and mobile slash manufactured homes on approximately forty-five point three acres. The applicant proposes to develop the property with a maximum of 107 single-family Touch dwellings subject to the comprehensive plan. The surrounding area is characterized by residential development consisting of single-family detached dwellings, the Oakstead MPUD, mobile slash manufactured homes, and the Pasco County Animal Service Center. The subject area has the subject site has a future land

   1:32:41use classification of RES III, and this is coming with a recommendation for approval with conditions from Planning Commission and Planning and Development Department. I'm here if you have any questions.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:32:52Um, so I don't think I was I don't know if I've been briefed on this one. Um I see the applicants coming up, so good. Can you give us a Background on this.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:33:05Barbara Wilhite, sixty three, twenty seven, Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey. This was a is a fairly fairly straightforward project. We're talking about I hadn't sworn, thank you. I wouldn't miss that highlight of my day. Thanks. Fairly straightforward project. Um it's a Nerez three land use, about a hundred and between a hundred and three and a hundred and seven um um single family detached units. Fifty foot minimums. There's no

   1:33:35forties. Client intends to meet and exceed all of your architectural and monotony control. Uh that's what Mad Madame Holmes does. South Market Area. uh utilities are in place and we have a unanimous recommendation from Planning Commission. I know there's probably a maybe a couple people here to speak, so I have my team here, my client Mac McCraw, I have Ali Ateffee um from Linkson Associates, if there's any transportation. um questions. I have the testimony from Uh Chris Williams. Um to

   1:34:06Planning Commission regarding schools. So there's any school questions, I'm prepared to answer them. So with that I will see if there's any public comment.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:34:13Well I have a question and um it may have been mentioned but I don't think I heard it. Just knowing that we have the major Trail of the county coming. uh up very close to it and that may be a way That um Some of the kids get to school.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:34:32We have a sub out to the north that we're required to do on our master plan.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:34:35Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:34:36So we'll be connected to our neighborhoods to the north whenever they develop and they'll be connected to tower.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:34:41Okay, and there'll there'll be a trail. Not a street.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:34:45I can't all I can do is say our project isn't isn't on tower. We are south of tower. So we will be connected to our neighborhood. and our sidewalks north of us, which then'll connect to your trail.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:34:58Well is it a sidewalk connection or is it a wider than normal sidewalk connection or just a regular sidewalk? I'm not ad

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:35:03I'm not adjacent to

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:35:05I know what are you what are you gonna stub out to your neighbor to the north with?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:35:09We're gonna stub out a vehicular connection with sidewalks.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:35:12Four five foot sidewalks?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:35:14Yes.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:35:21Well.

   1:35:27Okay. That's not optimal, but

   1:35:31But if our planning staff didn't discuss that with y'all and not gonna reshape it here. But I wish they would in the future. Okay. Um is there anyone in the public any board members any questions? Yeah, I know we have Christy signed up, but uh board members any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Um we have one is this the one speaker still signed up okay.

   Christy Zimmer

   1:35:58I am Christy Zimmer. Um I am not speaking against this particular project, but what I do want to bring to your attention is the fact that the multiple developments that are being approved, if you do approve this one, along that Lake Patience corridor. is creating horrible impact. From the CAC MPO position, we have been asking for a traffic light at Lake Patients in 41 for over ten years, but we're told it goes there's gonna be a realignment of Lake Patients over to Bell Lake Road. That's not even on the

   1:36:28books on the priority list. And we have had just this past week five more major accidents at that intersection, including two yesterday. with a possible fatality. We have got to address this. I spoke at length with Jensen with F D O T at the last CAC meeting and he said that F D O T has warranted a traffic light for that intersection and it's in the county's hands now. Because that Realignment isn't even on the books, and we're still approving all these extra projects along Lake

   1:36:58Patients that have already been approved, are being approved, and much more traffic being created. Is there a way that the County Commission can please expedite a traffic light at that intersection immediately because it is beyond warranted? I a I'm not putting that burden on this particular developer. I'm putting the burden back on the county because this is long overdue. Um what

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:37:21intersection were you referring to?

   Christy Zimmer

   1:37:23Lake Patients and 41. Oh forty one

   1:37:26and

   1:37:26this development is going to be coming out, Lake Patience, as as well as the ones you've already approved. And are coming up for approval. Ms. Simmer, can you just state for the record that you've been sworn? I have been sworn. Thank you. Sorry.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:37:40Okay. Um well we'll get information on that red light. I'm curious on that myself. All right, uh is there anyone online worshiping to speak to this?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:37:49Uh no one is online for this item.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:37:52Commissioner Weightman. Okay. Commissioner Mariano has a question, then Commissioner Moore.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:37:57Yes. Um I'd like to talk to staff. Liam, I guess.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:38:03Madam Chairman, I I really think you ought to finish the public com public comment before. Well I did

   1:38:08there's nobody. Well you got a

   1:38:10guy

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:38:10Oh I didn't even recognize you sorry Oh there's people out there All right you're allowed come on up Oh, there's more over there? Okay, why don't you come on up and line up right behind him?

   Peter Gorn

   1:38:19Thank you, Commissioner Starkey. And I've been previously sworn. Uh my name is Peter Gorn. I live at [address removed]. That's in the Marchmont subdivision above the Oakstead community. Um also a licensed attorney, Florida Bar number 0122618. Um I want to thank the committee for its time today. I'm going to speak very plainly. I'm here on behalf of myself and my family. I've been involved in litigation for almost 15 years, mostly as court-appointed counsel for the government.

   1:38:50I'm certainly busy enough that I'm not looking to take up any causes. But Ms. Polanitsa, who was present at the last meeting and is present here today, has done a tremendous amount of work on this issue and I believe has laid out very well the concerns to this committee at the last hearing. Essentially what we're seeing with our own eyes, as has been articulated before, is unfettered development. The apartments along 54 and the residential housing behind it was mentioned.

   1:39:22This is exactly what I thought of when uh commiss Commissioner Starkey when you said sprawl um because essentially it's being built with disregard to infrastructure and ecosystem with regard to the ecosystem. It was brought to my attention at the last committee meeting that it wasn't even clear that there would be destruction of wetlands. Um this is the home of the keystone species, uh the go-speaker. for tortoise. Um it's a protected species at the very least. And uh wildlife law is a

   1:39:52very dynamic, fluid changing area of the law right now. Um personally myself, just on the information I've gleaned in the last couple of days in my spare time, I have a lot of questions. I'd like the opportunity to review um Mr. Devine's plans and I I expect that uh I'll be able to do that, but my understanding is that many of the people that are going to be affected, including the people who live on Dog Patch Lane, um don't even know that this is going on and the feasibility of

   1:40:23of uh five foot sidewalks, um, as others could tell you, is just not feasible. Um So at this point I'm I know that's one minute. So at this point I'm objecting to the rezoning. We have a petition with over a hundred signatures. Community members will be directly affected by this. I'd like to acquire the plants to make sure they're in compliance with state and federal law. And I am asking the committee not to approve the rezoning. Um And uh I'm not sure if Mr. Polonitsa would m like to

   1:40:53make any further comment. Um but yes, the traffic issue as we previously mentioned is beyond horrible right now. And the answer is not more unfettered development. It's um repla it's getting the infrastructure in place. Thank you for your time.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:41:10Thank you. You know, I've heard this comment a lot. I was speak go ahead. Uh sorry, and I think someone else has come up and speak about infra uh infrastructure in place, but Infrastructure always follows development for I think we had one interesting Uh anomaly that was State Road fifty six when we had a developer who Um Got it. the state to help pay give us some money ahead of time to build out the extension of State World fifty six. But typically um

   1:41:41We don't collect money ahead of time to build infrastructure. It follows development. So that's just the standard way of The way America develops. Otherwise your taxes would be really high 'cause that's where we would have to get the money to do the infrastructure. if we didn't get it from the impact fee from development. So it's sadly The infrastructure is the tail, wagon, the dog. I guess is that the right expression? Okay, so um do

   1:42:11you wanted to speak to us today? Um name and address for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:42:15Okay. This is Sean Moore.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:42:19Sean we need your name and address for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:21Okay, my neighborhood is one big neighborhood one.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:42:28Your name and your address.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:29Um fo for one says question nine. Okay, were you sworn in?

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:42:36Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:37Yes. May first nineteen ninety three.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:42:42You you can lower that mic if you want. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:48What when was this? Christian Lane, May first, nineteen ninety day.

   1:42:55My neighbourhood is one big neighbourhood, watch not the official kind, we look out for each other. except now we can get police cars in your yard Police helicopter went over our palm trees to many houses. There's a bad guy came in disguise and Iard.

   1:43:30My neighborhood is more than a place on the map. My neighborhood is my haunt. In my neighborhood Neighbours are more than just the people who live next door.

   1:43:50In my neighborhood you can still find the middle of nowhere, and We have lots of dirt worlds and dumpsters.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:44:04Okay, it's a Anyway, we'd like him to share our time, please. Mike, his Sean's dad was Edward Moore.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:44:11Um, ma'am, can we get your name and address for the record, please? And that you've been sworn. Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:44:15I'm Debbie Moore, [address removed], and yes, I was sworn in. My husband is Edward Moore, that I've talked to you about before, how he has tried so hard to defend this neighborhood. Our daughter was Kristen April Moore, and I didn't bring any emotion into this the last time because I thought that rational stuff was. gonna cut it. But nope, you guys don't know this land at all. You haven't walked it, you don't see it. Even the county people on Palkinson, they don't know the land. Liam tells me, oh you're not rural, you're urban support. And we live on six acres, the neighbors on twenty. We have wetlands all around the city. Can you put that map up please

   1:44:46again? And look at it with a little more depth. And I have the Lake Patients study for the road expansion. My husband has that from years ago. I can't see. I have the stormwater flood drainage maps. This was off from 2006. When Oakstead came in. W us citizens, we tried to sue Oakstead for not putting the wildlife stuff in like they were supposed to. Kristen Lane is an official wildlife connection zone and you guys act like twenty acres, it's so nothing, but it's in the middle of hundreds plus acres of wetlands. And it is tight. I didn't think I thought the new land up the road here.

   1:45:17That was not quite as offensive as what you've done to us and the money. Yeah, we need to get you on record. Thank you. Anyway, when we were here last time you gave a a continuance for a pothole in the road, and Catherine, you're in the background whispering When can we? And then you say, I don't think I'm gonna be able to stay for the vote and then boom, we're asking questions, people are answering. I wanted to appeal that decision so bad and everybody talked me out of it. It's like it should have been appealed. Anybody would hear that? Conference. September twenty eighth. Twenty twenty one. It's very, very

   1:45:48wrong. It's kind of ironic because Oakstead was September twenty eighth, nineteen ninety nine, and everyone ignores that, how we raised hell so much to not get that kind of impact onto this wildlife, onto this land, onto this primitive swamp with the alligators still cross the road. I don't know where you're gonna put sidewalks and prevent the kids from coming across alligators because they do come out. We do lose dogs and cats. And if you will look on the map at the at can you put our map back up please and show up close the swamp road. It's not a road where you can just drive around and put sidewalks. It's is there's no shoulder

   1:46:18all the way down the patient's road. People right now are walking in puddles, wet shoulders, mud. It's the road is so dangerous. And now the construction of What was it called? The Pines. What's it called? Whispering Pines, yeah. They burned down hundreds of acres of pine trees. Now it's all dirt. Now there's all pipes. There's construction. Lake Faesians Road is so dangerous for coming today. I've got I've got it on my phone. Wait,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:46:40ma'am, you gotta stay at the mic.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:46:42I have pictures on my phone, but you guys need to go see the area. This should not just be a decision that you're making. The one you made already is so wrong and I still would like to appeal that if that could possibly be Done, some kind of litigation, conservation areas, you're not considering the wildlife that it was approved to be taken care of there. And I have so much information that my husband collected, and if he hadn't died, I don't think this would have happened. He had been in every one of your offices in me would have understood

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:47:07Stay at the mic.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:47:09What I don't understand, Catherine, that you had to rush the vote that day. You you're whispering, When can we vote? And then you're whispering.

   1:47:18The September twenty-eighth, twenty one, twenty one about the July Drive Go that nobody knows anything about the land. That's why I'm so angry. I wish I had gotten I wish I'd gotten dragged out of the courtroom and been on TV because we'd have got publicity and this wouldn't be happening.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:47:32All right. Thank you very much. Does um anyone else wish to address the ball? Okay, come on now. Uh give them a second to get gather their things.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:47:40Doesn't matter what said today, it's already done and done. Ex parte communication means that we are screwed, that's all.

   1:47:48Excuse me, Pretty unhappy with you guys and what you've done. We used to get like friendly to the green right there and all of a sudden.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:47:55Okay. Um can you um step away so we can have the next speaker? Thank you very much. Oh, we're gonna get a close up view.

   1:48:06Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:48:09is on a land anymore for Indians.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:48:13Yeah. All right. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:48:15Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:48:16Hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:48:18Okay. Hi. Hi, for the record I was sworn in. You can lift up the mic. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Kathryn Baxter Pulanitsa. I live at [address removed]. Um I'm here on behalf of uh all of my neighbors. I again I have around a hundred petition signatures um to hopefully stop this development. Um Per the last meeting, I think

   1:48:48we were able to see a lot of things that were not expressed. Um I had multiple neighbors who will be directly impacted by this subdivision being built, reach out and have absolutely no idea this was happening. There was no letter sent to them. People who live on Dog Patch Land reaching out to me directly have having no idea that this was going to uh proceed. Um that this was even in in the realm of possibility. Um I think that our environmental impact Um as

   1:49:19stated from Barbara last time, there actually will be wetland distribu uh disruption. They will be ruining our wetlands and you know It said it's just uh it's just a quarter of an acre. It is still a quarter of an acre and to allow these um allow these uh gopher tortoises and animals to have healthy, sustainable lives, they need the wetlands and they need the They need the ability to flow back and forth

   1:49:49from these wetlands. And when you build a development like this, you're taking away a lot of their land. I think there's a lot of issues as well as with our schools, and I know we have people here to address that. However, I know firsthand our children at Oakstead Elementary are already in portables. We have two more developments with over 300 homes being built in that same area. With no No uh help of building a new school anytime soon. Where are these children supposed to go? Then you're adding in another homes, another hundred

   1:50:19homes, with the expectation of these children have nowhere to go. Um, I believe that our children should have the right to a great education and with overflowing schools and under under developed um infrastructure for the schools, uh you're setting them up for failure. So I plead with you guys to hopefully halt this. Um on behalf of all of my neighbors who cannot be here at t on a Tuesday at one thirty in the afternoon. Um I speak

   1:50:49on behalf of them and yeah, thank you.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:50:52Thanks. Uh can you tell me what I've been trying to find at Have Lock?

   1:50:56Yes. [address removed]. H-A-V-E. L O C

   1:51:03K E Oh, C K E L I don't know, it's not showing up here. And how long have you lived in the area?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:51:08We um are originally from Fort Myers. We moved to the area in twenty nineteen, purchased our house in twenty

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:51:13nineteen. Two years ago. So were you So Okay. Well that answers it right there. Yeah. Thank you very much.

   1:51:23Okay, let's let the applicant oh wait is there anyone else here that wishes to speak? Okay, come on up. And if there's anyone else, please line up behind her and that's gonna be the end of public comment here. Do we have anyone online?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:51:33No one's online for this.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:51:35Okay, so unless someone stands up and gets behind this young lady, then you're gonna be the last speaker. Thanks for calling me

   Pat Rubracht

   1:51:41yo. Okay. My name is Pat Rubracht and I live at [address removed]. My road is right off of Lake

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:51:49Patience Road. Oh, I was not. Then if you would please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

   Pat Rubracht

   1:51:59Yes. Thank you. I do.

   1:52:03Uh the road I live on is right off of Lake Patience Road, which will be impacted by this new development. My biggest concern with this new development of 107 homes is the impact of traffic on Lake Patients Road and the impact it will bring to our already overcrowded schools, especially Oakstead Elementary School. Which when it opened ten years ago opened with portable classrooms.

   1:52:31I also worry about the additional traffic in front of the school. There's going to have to be more buses to bus these kids from these new subdivisions on Lake Patience Road and this one on Joy Drive. We already have a shortage of bus drivers. Not to mention the additional cars it will bring with people taking their kids to school.

   1:52:53The traffic is already terrible right at uh the beginning of school and end of school.

   1:53:02Um a previous spoker already a previous speaker already spoke about my concern about the intersection at Lake Patience and 41. Unfortunately, I saw one of those accidents yesterday. It's a common occurrence. The developer has purchased 3.5 acres to gain entrance into the subdivision on the forty acre block. However, as I understand it, only twenty four acres of this property is usable, as the rest are wetlands. Therefore, including the road

   1:53:32structure, you're cramming 107 homes onto approximately 24 acres, including the road coverage. That's one house per every one-sixth of an acre.

   1:53:45We moved to Pasco County about sixteen and a half years ago to get out of the busy hectic Tampa traffic. We liked it out here because it was rural. Since then of course we've seen a lot of develop development Вчін і пакте сомач. As this one will. This one will because of the the other two subdivisions, Poulty with 400 homes, and the new subdivision with the rental homes. Lake Patience and Oakstead are two lane

   1:54:16roads. So if, you know, there was one car per house, that could be 700 more cars traveling Lake Patience and Oakstead Boulevard.

   1:54:29I just feel like

   1:54:32Um You're cramming this into sensitive wetlands surrounding la Lake Patients and Little Lake Patients watersheds. I live on Little Lake Patients and it has been cleaned up and improved over the last ten years and provides a nice community for the old Florida homes. This includes a huge population of deer that roam freely in everyone's yards and wetlands in this area is a huge natural habitat, not only for the deer, but turkey and gopher tortoises. This land is irreplaceable and does not deserve a high

   1:55:02density subdivision.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:55:05Thank you.

   Pat Rubracht

   1:55:05Thank

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:55:06you very much. Okay, um I think that was our last speaker, so we'll have the applicant come back. I What and I am kinda curious, what is the future plan for Lake Patience, if anyone Can answer that at some point.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:55:20Thank you. I'm I'm hopeful staff or maybe Ali can talk about it. Lake Patience in 41, it's quite a distance from our project.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:55:29And I would assume that your students won't need to be bused to Oakstead Elementary.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:55:36That's correct. Yeah. Um So when the s issue of schools came up at Planning Commission, uh Chris Williams was there um and spoke. to the Planning Commission. It's a little difficult 'cause He's not here with you all, so I have to relay we know we've typed up his his his testimony and we'll relay it to you. But I can tell you when it comes to schools, we get asked about it a lot, before we make an application to the county to rezone property, we make an application to the school board. They know every rezoning that's

   1:56:06going on in your county. Then when a construction plan comes in, they get an application again. And so they know exactly when houses are coming online. So they are working hard to get the schools in place. Relative to um what what Chris Williams explained Is that they're constructing a new K through eight. Um school and it's going to take all of Oakstead's boundary that is currently south of fifty-four. So that'll provide significant relief to Oakstead.

   1:56:36These are his words, not mine. at the time and also to Bexley. He said we are hoping that that K three eight school of enough capacity that others will be able to choo choice in to that school as well as um they might want to have that K three eight experience and that'll add additional to relief to Oakstead as they choose to go to that new K eight school they're working on. So they're looking to expand the drop off and pick up loop at at Oakstead and add some capacity? He said that our project at

   1:57:06the most will add twenty elementary school students if they all elected to go to public school at Oakstead. This is many students are choosing, they're seeing them choose magnet schools and charter schools. So the m the vast majority of growth in the Oakstead boundary is finished, but there is still some growth coming to Oakstead, but the addition of the K three eight school to the south of 54 by Ballantray is planned to provide a bulk of relief to Oakstead in a couple years when our houses will be coming online. But I thought it was important to share to you, share with you, because we don't have anybody from the school board

   1:57:36here, but that's the testimony. Um That he gave to the Planning Commission. And they also object didn't object to the project and actually voted recommended it voted to recommend to you all to approve it. As far as notice goes, when uh Madame Holmes first put this property under contract before they even came to me. Mac would explain to you that he sent out notices to all the actual neighbors on Joy and as well as on Dog Patch and uh wanted them to call him if they had any questions.

   1:58:07And he had a couple of folks that called and asked questions. We have not heard from any of those neighbors, despite specifically noticing them again. I noticed them again and we posted the property. We go through extensive listed species review in connection with an MPUD and we have quite a few conditions of approval. We are completely compliant with the land development code in that regard. We'll be will be reviewed again when we come in with construction plans because those listed species surveys are only good for 18 months. A little unusual of this project is that our category

   1:58:38one wetlands have to go into a conservation easement. I haven't seen the county uh in implementing that on projects, but that's what we'll have to do. We have a small impact, a four hundred square feet impact to a wetland on site, but other than that the rest of all of our wetlands and their buffer are going to go into a conservation easement. We've gone through all the things that we have to do.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:59:00Who manages that easily?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:59:03I guess I'm gonna find that out because I have not the county's never asked anybody for a conservation easement. Uh yeah.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:59:09I'm not familiar with that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:59:10So I'm I'm interested I'm interested in that process as well but but I haven't gone through it yet. So We've gone through all the requirements for our road review. We have substandard road improvements that we'll need to make to uh dog patch and joy drive. at Lake Patience and Joy Drive, that intersection. We're gonna work with MI and the county. To do a left turn lane improvement. So w our traffic and MA's traffic and will be not no longer in the lane of travel as we turn

   1:59:40left into Joy Drive from Lake Patience. As you heard one of the speakers talk about, MI did have a project approved. Um a similar type project. on Joy Drive in 2021 and they're working, we're working together with the county to to put that turn lane in. We're consistent with that project approval. We're consistent with our Res 3 land use. Your vision for this property is the South Market area and your urban service area where you where you want to have development. You have utilities in place. Um which

   2:00:10is supports the level of density. We are not cramming anything in. We are doing a three units per acre project. Um With fifty foot homes, monotony control and architectural details and all the things that uh you're asking for projects to do today.

   2:00:28We would ask for your support today. We have gone through the process. We've followed the process. It's a long process. We've answered all the questions. We've we've done everything we have to do to move this forward and we'd ask for your support.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:00:40Okay, and um the density is R three? Yes, three units

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:00:46per developable acre.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:00:47And um I know you used to be assistant county administrator and you were here when we did I mean attorney, not administrator, sorry. Uh this is not sprawl, right? This is infill development.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:00:59That's correct. We're following your utility policies. You actually have a policy where you have central water and sewer, the minimum density. is three units per acre. So that's why where you have utilities you see res three land uses, res six land uses, because the minimum density When you have made that public investment in infrastructure is three units per acre. So we're sitting right at that minimum for the infrastructure you have in place.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:01:22Yeah, so

   Mike Moore

   2:01:25Um Barbara that there's a neighborhood to the northwest. It says uh Havelot Drive.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:01:31That's part of Oakstead, I think.

   Mike Moore

   2:01:33Yeah. So those are smaller lots.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:01:35Yes.

   Mike Moore

   2:01:36Those are smaller lots. About house.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:01:39Oakstead's very similar, very similar development.

   Mike Moore

   2:01:41Yeah, I was to say it looks pretty similar to what you're proposing.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:01:45And we do have a large category one I I Got off on this conservation easement thing, but In between those Oakstead houses, homes and our homes, there's a large category of one wetland there. Um you can kind of see it in the darker green. So you can see where those homes are and then you can see the darker green is the wetland line there. Um I can see it just but I'm sure you can see it too from the aerial. So there is that large category one wet one is on our west side and I think Liam had mentioned that's why we're not providing any connections

   2:02:15to the West because of um because of that large wetland. So they have a large buffer there.

   2:02:22And we will comply with all of the listed species requirements. I mean I wrote all those. So I know 'em well.

   Mike Moore

   2:02:28Thank you. And I think you Madam Clerk and I think when it came to the um it was part of about the traffic signal. I think that's something that um I don't know if you guys hear from the MPO or not, but we can put that on the agenda for the next thanks Mike. Yeah, I can speak about that.

   2:02:46We're at August September MPO meeting. Let's look at that and see where that is. That's fine. We're currently far away from this project. You can't obviously ask the uh the developer of this project to obviously pay for a single that's I don't know how many miles away is, but at the same time it's something that we should bring up and look. I don't disagree. So we should uh look at moving that forward. I know where um close to where I live there was a single that that took fifty So to get put in, even though it was approved, it took a long time. It looked a lot it took a

   2:03:16long time to get there and then you know everybody felt the pain. So um yeah, if we can g thanks Mike, we can September June, that'd be great. Thank you.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:03:25Frankly I'm not looking at Dog Patch Lane. Um Yeah, I think there's some interesting maybe on lawful business is going on on Doc Patch Lane, so I would Send code out there to take a look. Uh Okay. It is there's no one else here online than it is to the board.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:03:50Madam Chairman Mariano. Yeah. Um you asked a question about how wide is the path going to be and looking primarily are most of the residents gonna walk come down to the south to get out?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:04:01Yes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:04:02Okay, so you got a narrow stretch. I I I don't see a site plan as far as where the homes are gonna go, what's light up, but uh could you put a wider trail, like an eight foot trail, instead of a five foot trail?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:04:13Well we don't we're not at Site Plan, but where are are you thinking the trail?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:04:17Well if everyone's gonna go into the south to get out five foot trail, especially kids.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:04:24It's one it's one rider at a time, or one one walk maybe two walkers, but it's It's n it's the very minimum you would want from any kind of multi-use.

   2:04:38So I don't know what the layout looks

   Mike Moore

   2:04:40like. So it's only 107 homes though for

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:04:43but it is it is connecting to the master trail to the north and the elementary school to the south. So the kids who live in the development just to the north of this when that comes in are gonna wanna go through here to get to that school. So Um It's har it would be dangerous for them. They'd be riding in the street because it's hard to ride on a little a five foot sidewalk. That's just It's better if you could figure maybe put the sidewalk on one side. I don't know.

   2:05:15But I'm saying that's just the the minimum. And that's why I brought that up. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   Mike Moore

   2:05:22Yeah, no.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:05:23No, you know,

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:05:24thank you. I think it's I think it's really hard to site plan a project at at this stage. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:05:31not going to try.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:05:32We all have sidewalks on All roads require sidewalks on both sides and and so

   2:05:37Yeah.

   2:05:37Just what

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:05:38are

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:05:38the

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:05:38amenities in here? Uh and it it's could a multi use path somewhere in here be an amenity or

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:05:46I just don't know.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:05:50I'm not sure.

   2:05:53You the you know the Does we want there to be access to the school? And we want there to be access to the

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:06:01trail. I mean especially if we have children out that that don't get bus service. They get more kids traveling. This is like something I would think the school board would even ask for. I don't know why they wouldn't have. But I mean that that type of access has got to be a good thing for the community. We just had one on uh five A Road by the library coming in. They went from a five foot to an eight foot. Yeah. Because the trail was gonna come in there.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:06:22Yeah, eight foot.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:06:23I mean there's is you is you so

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:06:25I think the developer's sitting here. Is

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:06:26the developer willing to put a

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:06:27eight foot eight foot

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:06:28path or no?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:06:29So I was hearing that That's right. D will it come back to us for site plan approval? It will not. It will not. Okay. So we gotta ask we gotta ask for it now.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:06:38Yeah, you're you're trying to plan a project that we don't have, you know, it's hard to plan a project. This is a very small project.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:06:46Yeah, but an eight foot an eight foot would be really good on one side, not both sides.

   2:06:53I don't know what I'm saying. We don't know what the the layout looks like and we're not gonna see it. We don't. But if it's how do you wanna word that?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:07:03I got twenty kids coming down to school in the morning, they're coming down that one.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:07:06Well you

   2:07:06got

   2:07:06the neighborhood above it too, that's

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:07:09I mean it's not a bad thing for a a nice trail in a in a neighborhood. As a matter of fact, look at Seven Oaks, how great that place is. Nice wide trails.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:07:17Starkey Range.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   2:07:18The students to the West, are they gonna there's no connection for them to come into this neighborhood to go on that sidewalk. So where what way does Just have lock in trouble.

   2:07:34Because I do agree that we need sidewalks, especially with our students not being able to be bused to school.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:07:41There's there are sidewalks. We're just saying can it be a wider sidewalk, that's all. I mean sidewalk is the minimum.

   Liam Devine

   2:07:52To answer your question, Commissioner, um there will be no connection to the West. So if you're thinking there's connection to Oakstead to the West, there won't be any because there is that category one wetland there. So I think what they're referring to is the parcel above that would have connection. That's not currently developed.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   2:08:10It's not bad. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:08:17And Commissioner, I stopped you from asking a question to Liam before. I don't know if you remember what it was. Um Did we go back to public comment? No, that was okay. Okay.

   Christina Fitzpatrick

   2:08:36And I the applicant I mentioned at one point I thought that they were improving dog patch. So would the sidewalk go down in a a long dog patch? Or where would the sidewalk be?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:08:47S so we have not done our improvements to Dog Patch or Joy Drive. But if you're talking about internal sidewalks, because that's what we're We're working on I mean I think the problem is we gave up an easement on our east side. 'Cause the folks on the east side they're road. It doesn't sit on their property, it sits on this property. So we're just a What happens is between those wetlands and The easement we gave up on the east side. it's really hard to site plan their project here.

   2:09:18Um

   2:09:20And if you put a firm requirement in and then they can't do it Because we're squeezed between those wetlands and the and the easement that we're giving to the Joy Drive folks 'cause they don't have their road on their own property. It's just pretty scary my client to to make that leap. Is there sometimes it's easy to make leaps? We may I make leaps here with you all the time. It's just this one's difficult to make that leap.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:09:45Well, uh is there a sidewalk on Joy Drive? No. Okay, so this is gonna be one of those it's not his responsibility, but this is gonna be one of those deals where we're gonna this is gonna get added to our safe routes to school list and we're gonna have to put a sidewalk on Joy Drive. But so we'll have to we'll have to plan for that. And and there's gonna be a lot of that um as we infill in some of these areas.

   2:10:15Well

   2:10:20Yeah, I agree. I mean I think it's gonna be up to us to try and put something on joy. Toublo. See if the county can't come and put something on there. But

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:10:30but why wouldn't we ask now? We're in development stage right now. They can design it right now. It's very inexpensive of them to it. If we could do it You know how many projects we have on the side on the sidewalk this for over 20 years in the MPO? And now we got more coming with all the with the new terms of schools?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:10:44Did we approve the project that's north of this project already? No.

   2:10:49You've

   2:10:49approved

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:10:50the MI project, which is south and east.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:10:54I mean d at a minimum we should look at it from one side of the d development of the other side, from around the sidewalks connecting from the southern part to the northern part, he should be able to find at least one side of the trip development to put a trail through. You can have a hundred, two hundred, uh, twenty kids going to school? One trail and then who's ever gonna come above? This is the time to ask.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:11:15So um can we ask for To not put a sidewalk on one side and combine them both on the other? I'm asking Terry.

   2:11:28Or four foot on one side and a six foot on the other or I mean that's Well let them are they gonna answer first. Let them answer first.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:11:37Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:11:39Hang on, hang on, Brent.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:11:40Oh just a master, yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:11:43Red tip and planning and development. Joy Drive would most likely be considered a substandard road, so there are some processes to handle how the substandard road is is done. And this development is is not a a large development. It's only a hundred units or so. So that would be something that would be done with a contribution towards the substandard road. And you can look at all of the different areas there to see who would need to contribute to that. The county probably with the school uh upgrades for the side books would also need to be a part of that. What happens

   2:12:13within their site, the MPUD, you can obviously request whatever it is that you would like to see there. And we, you know, when it comes to the design in the in the site review stage will we'll certainly implement that. But off-site it gets a little bit more tricky there because of the size of the subdivision itself.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:12:32So this is w you know, the challenges we have when we have subs little pockets of developments come in. And uh we can't It's not fair to burden them too much with what comes in, but we We need to have an overall plan and they have to be they have to be par somehow be part of that plan. If it's to pay in to build a multi use trail along Joy so that those students can actively and safely get to get around or anybody Then th that ne

   2:13:02that needs to be part of your plan for the area, in my opinion.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:13:06Madam Chairman M this is a master plan unit development. That's the zoning category we're going to, right? I can't recall the last one I've seen where we didn't see at least the plan, the layout where it was gonna go.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:13:15Yeah, yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   2:13:16I've I've never seen this before.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:13:18Well yeah, this is the normal process. But um that My client has agreed to make one of his sidewalks that goes north to south uh eight feet instead of five feet, and we can put that in the MPD conditions and hopefully it'll all fit.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:13:33That's great, but we're gonna have responsibility at the end of his Project. to get it further on. I mean But but it's good to have that piece and we're gonna have to put that same responsibility on the development to the north so that the residents in this development can get up to the trail and safely use a multimodal way to get to work.

   Mike Moore

   2:13:59I'll amend my motion then to um add in the eight foot sidewalk on one side of

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:14:07one side only internal to his project yes not on every one just one

   Mike Moore

   2:14:11that's

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:14:12yeah

   Mike Moore

   2:14:12that's my

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   2:14:12motion yeah excellent thank you very much okay all in favor aye opposed thank you remember that for the one to the north.