Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Roy N Geraci III et al/Joy Drive North MPUD – Change in Zoning from a A-C Agricultural District and a A-R Agricultural- Residential District to a MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District To Allow for a Maximum of 107 Single Family Detached Dwelling Units and Associated Infrastructure on Approximately 45.3 Acres – Southwest Pasco County – On the North Side of Dogpatch Lane Approximately 390 Feet West of Joy Drive and Abutting Joy Drive Approximately 650 Feet North of Dogpatch Lane

1:29:58Right. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. We are on to ninety-four. Ninety three. Ninety-three, sorry.

1:30:05Item P ninety three was published in the Tampay Times on June twenty-second, twenty twenty-two.

1:30:12Liam Divine Planning and Development. Item P ninety three, P D twenty two. Dash seven five eight eight in the name of Joy Drive M P U D. The subject site is currently located on the north side of Dog Patch Lane, approximately three hundred and ninety feet west of Joy Drive, and abutting Joy Drive, approximately six hundred and fifty feet north of Dog Patch Lane. Here's a look at the aerial view. Here is a look at the surrounding future land use and here's a look at the current

1:30:42zoning. The applicant is requesting a rezoning from AC Agricultural District and AR Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD master plan unit development on approximately 45.3 acres with a maximum of 107 single-family detached dwellings. The applicant is requesting variations from LDC section 901.6.11 street design and dedication requirements and 901.1.8 transportation corridor spacing and

1:31:12special design requirements. Staff has identified the following. The connection to the east is to Joy Drive, a county-maintained dirt road. will have emergency access only. There are existing homes with driveways along Joy Drive. Emergency access will result in less disruption to those existing homes. An interconnection to the west would also requ require a potential impact to a category one wetland.

1:31:44Additionally, the location of a stormwater pond in a natural low lying spot to the southwest would interrupt that wetland and interconnection to the west. And then the southwest parcel. Could potentially connect to the MPUD as a floodplain and continuation of the category wetland that would make this project hard to develop.

1:32:06Here's a look at the current master plane.

1:32:11The subject site consists of a single family dwelling and mobile slash manufactured homes on approximately forty-five point three acres. The applicant proposes to develop the property with a maximum of 107 single-family Touch dwellings subject to the comprehensive plan. The surrounding area is characterized by residential development consisting of single-family detached dwellings, the Oakstead MPUD, mobile slash manufactured homes, and the Pasco County Animal Service Center. The subject area has the subject site has a future land

1:32:41use classification of RES III, and this is coming with a recommendation for approval with conditions from Planning Commission and Planning and Development Department. I'm here if you have any questions.

1:32:52Um, so I don't think I was I don't know if I've been briefed on this one. Um I see the applicants coming up, so good. Can you give us a Background on this.

1:33:05Barbara Wilhite, sixty three, twenty seven, Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey. This was a is a fairly fairly straightforward project. We're talking about I hadn't sworn, thank you. I wouldn't miss that highlight of my day. Thanks. Fairly straightforward project. Um it's a Nerez three land use, about a hundred and between a hundred and three and a hundred and seven um um single family detached units. Fifty foot minimums. There's no

1:33:35forties. Client intends to meet and exceed all of your architectural and monotony control. Uh that's what Mad Madame Holmes does. South Market Area. uh utilities are in place and we have a unanimous recommendation from Planning Commission. I know there's probably a maybe a couple people here to speak, so I have my team here, my client Mac McCraw, I have Ali Ateffee um from Linkson Associates, if there's any transportation. um questions. I have the testimony from Uh Chris Williams. Um to

1:34:06Planning Commission regarding schools. So there's any school questions, I'm prepared to answer them. So with that I will see if there's any public comment.

1:34:13Well I have a question and um it may have been mentioned but I don't think I heard it. Just knowing that we have the major Trail of the county coming. uh up very close to it and that may be a way That um Some of the kids get to school.

1:34:32We have a sub out to the north that we're required to do on our master plan.

1:34:35Okay.

1:34:36So we'll be connected to our neighborhoods to the north whenever they develop and they'll be connected to tower.

1:34:41Okay, and there'll there'll be a trail. Not a street.

1:34:45I can't all I can do is say our project isn't isn't on tower. We are south of tower. So we will be connected to our neighborhood. and our sidewalks north of us, which then'll connect to your trail.

1:34:58Well is it a sidewalk connection or is it a wider than normal sidewalk connection or just a regular sidewalk? I'm not ad

1:35:03I'm not adjacent to

1:35:05I know what are you what are you gonna stub out to your neighbor to the north with?

1:35:09We're gonna stub out a vehicular connection with sidewalks.

1:35:12Four five foot sidewalks?

1:35:14Yes.

1:35:21Well.

1:35:27Okay. That's not optimal, but

1:35:31But if our planning staff didn't discuss that with y'all and not gonna reshape it here. But I wish they would in the future. Okay. Um is there anyone in the public any board members any questions? Yeah, I know we have Christy signed up, but uh board members any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Um we have one is this the one speaker still signed up okay.

1:35:58I am Christy Zimmer. Um I am not speaking against this particular project, but what I do want to bring to your attention is the fact that the multiple developments that are being approved, if you do approve this one, along that Lake Patience corridor. is creating horrible impact. From the CAC MPO position, we have been asking for a traffic light at Lake Patients in 41 for over ten years, but we're told it goes there's gonna be a realignment of Lake Patients over to Bell Lake Road. That's not even on the

1:36:28books on the priority list. And we have had just this past week five more major accidents at that intersection, including two yesterday. with a possible fatality. We have got to address this. I spoke at length with Jensen with F D O T at the last CAC meeting and he said that F D O T has warranted a traffic light for that intersection and it's in the county's hands now. Because that Realignment isn't even on the books, and we're still approving all these extra projects along Lake

1:36:58Patients that have already been approved, are being approved, and much more traffic being created. Is there a way that the County Commission can please expedite a traffic light at that intersection immediately because it is beyond warranted? I a I'm not putting that burden on this particular developer. I'm putting the burden back on the county because this is long overdue. Um what

1:37:21intersection were you referring to?

1:37:23Lake Patients and 41. Oh forty one

1:37:26and

1:37:26this development is going to be coming out, Lake Patience, as as well as the ones you've already approved. And are coming up for approval. Ms. Simmer, can you just state for the record that you've been sworn? I have been sworn. Thank you. Sorry.

1:37:40Okay. Um well we'll get information on that red light. I'm curious on that myself. All right, uh is there anyone online worshiping to speak to this?

1:37:49Uh no one is online for this item.

1:37:52Commissioner Weightman. Okay. Commissioner Mariano has a question, then Commissioner Moore.

1:37:57Yes. Um I'd like to talk to staff. Liam, I guess.

1:38:03Madam Chairman, I I really think you ought to finish the public com public comment before. Well I did

1:38:08there's nobody. Well you got a

1:38:10guy

1:38:10Oh I didn't even recognize you sorry Oh there's people out there All right you're allowed come on up Oh, there's more over there? Okay, why don't you come on up and line up right behind him?

1:38:19Thank you, Commissioner Starkey. And I've been previously sworn. Uh my name is Peter Gorn. I live at [address removed]. That's in the Marchmont subdivision above the Oakstead community. Um also a licensed attorney, Florida Bar number 0122618. Um I want to thank the committee for its time today. I'm going to speak very plainly. I'm here on behalf of myself and my family. I've been involved in litigation for almost 15 years, mostly as court-appointed counsel for the government.

1:38:50I'm certainly busy enough that I'm not looking to take up any causes. But Ms. Polanitsa, who was present at the last meeting and is present here today, has done a tremendous amount of work on this issue and I believe has laid out very well the concerns to this committee at the last hearing. Essentially what we're seeing with our own eyes, as has been articulated before, is unfettered development. The apartments along 54 and the residential housing behind it was mentioned.

1:39:22This is exactly what I thought of when uh commiss Commissioner Starkey when you said sprawl um because essentially it's being built with disregard to infrastructure and ecosystem with regard to the ecosystem. It was brought to my attention at the last committee meeting that it wasn't even clear that there would be destruction of wetlands. Um this is the home of the keystone species, uh the go-speaker. for tortoise. Um it's a protected species at the very least. And uh wildlife law is a

1:39:52very dynamic, fluid changing area of the law right now. Um personally myself, just on the information I've gleaned in the last couple of days in my spare time, I have a lot of questions. I'd like the opportunity to review um Mr. Devine's plans and I I expect that uh I'll be able to do that, but my understanding is that many of the people that are going to be affected, including the people who live on Dog Patch Lane, um don't even know that this is going on and the feasibility of

1:40:23of uh five foot sidewalks, um, as others could tell you, is just not feasible. Um So at this point I'm I know that's one minute. So at this point I'm objecting to the rezoning. We have a petition with over a hundred signatures. Community members will be directly affected by this. I'd like to acquire the plants to make sure they're in compliance with state and federal law. And I am asking the committee not to approve the rezoning. Um And uh I'm not sure if Mr. Polonitsa would m like to

1:40:53make any further comment. Um but yes, the traffic issue as we previously mentioned is beyond horrible right now. And the answer is not more unfettered development. It's um repla it's getting the infrastructure in place. Thank you for your time.

1:41:10Thank you. You know, I've heard this comment a lot. I was speak go ahead. Uh sorry, and I think someone else has come up and speak about infra uh infrastructure in place, but Infrastructure always follows development for I think we had one interesting Uh anomaly that was State Road fifty six when we had a developer who Um Got it. the state to help pay give us some money ahead of time to build out the extension of State World fifty six. But typically um

1:41:41We don't collect money ahead of time to build infrastructure. It follows development. So that's just the standard way of The way America develops. Otherwise your taxes would be really high 'cause that's where we would have to get the money to do the infrastructure. if we didn't get it from the impact fee from development. So it's sadly The infrastructure is the tail, wagon, the dog. I guess is that the right expression? Okay, so um do

1:42:11you wanted to speak to us today? Um name and address for the record.

1:42:15Okay. This is Sean Moore.

1:42:19Sean we need your name and address for the record.

1:42:21Okay, my neighborhood is one big neighborhood one.

1:42:28Your name and your address.

1:42:29Um fo for one says question nine. Okay, were you sworn in?

1:42:36Yes.

1:42:37Yes. May first nineteen ninety three.

1:42:42You you can lower that mic if you want. Okay.

1:42:48What when was this? Christian Lane, May first, nineteen ninety day.

1:42:55My neighbourhood is one big neighbourhood, watch not the official kind, we look out for each other. except now we can get police cars in your yard Police helicopter went over our palm trees to many houses. There's a bad guy came in disguise and Iard.

1:43:30My neighborhood is more than a place on the map. My neighborhood is my haunt. In my neighborhood Neighbours are more than just the people who live next door.

1:43:50In my neighborhood you can still find the middle of nowhere, and We have lots of dirt worlds and dumpsters.

1:44:04Okay, it's a Anyway, we'd like him to share our time, please. Mike, his Sean's dad was Edward Moore.

1:44:11Um, ma'am, can we get your name and address for the record, please? And that you've been sworn. Yeah.

1:44:15I'm Debbie Moore, [address removed], and yes, I was sworn in. My husband is Edward Moore, that I've talked to you about before, how he has tried so hard to defend this neighborhood. Our daughter was Kristen April Moore, and I didn't bring any emotion into this the last time because I thought that rational stuff was. gonna cut it. But nope, you guys don't know this land at all. You haven't walked it, you don't see it. Even the county people on Palkinson, they don't know the land. Liam tells me, oh you're not rural, you're urban support. And we live on six acres, the neighbors on twenty. We have wetlands all around the city. Can you put that map up please

1:44:46again? And look at it with a little more depth. And I have the Lake Patients study for the road expansion. My husband has that from years ago. I can't see. I have the stormwater flood drainage maps. This was off from 2006. When Oakstead came in. W us citizens, we tried to sue Oakstead for not putting the wildlife stuff in like they were supposed to. Kristen Lane is an official wildlife connection zone and you guys act like twenty acres, it's so nothing, but it's in the middle of hundreds plus acres of wetlands. And it is tight. I didn't think I thought the new land up the road here.

1:45:17That was not quite as offensive as what you've done to us and the money. Yeah, we need to get you on record. Thank you. Anyway, when we were here last time you gave a a continuance for a pothole in the road, and Catherine, you're in the background whispering When can we? And then you say, I don't think I'm gonna be able to stay for the vote and then boom, we're asking questions, people are answering. I wanted to appeal that decision so bad and everybody talked me out of it. It's like it should have been appealed. Anybody would hear that? Conference. September twenty eighth. Twenty twenty one. It's very, very

1:45:48wrong. It's kind of ironic because Oakstead was September twenty eighth, nineteen ninety nine, and everyone ignores that, how we raised hell so much to not get that kind of impact onto this wildlife, onto this land, onto this primitive swamp with the alligators still cross the road. I don't know where you're gonna put sidewalks and prevent the kids from coming across alligators because they do come out. We do lose dogs and cats. And if you will look on the map at the at can you put our map back up please and show up close the swamp road. It's not a road where you can just drive around and put sidewalks. It's is there's no shoulder

1:46:18all the way down the patient's road. People right now are walking in puddles, wet shoulders, mud. It's the road is so dangerous. And now the construction of What was it called? The Pines. What's it called? Whispering Pines, yeah. They burned down hundreds of acres of pine trees. Now it's all dirt. Now there's all pipes. There's construction. Lake Faesians Road is so dangerous for coming today. I've got I've got it on my phone. Wait,

1:46:40ma'am, you gotta stay at the mic.

1:46:42I have pictures on my phone, but you guys need to go see the area. This should not just be a decision that you're making. The one you made already is so wrong and I still would like to appeal that if that could possibly be Done, some kind of litigation, conservation areas, you're not considering the wildlife that it was approved to be taken care of there. And I have so much information that my husband collected, and if he hadn't died, I don't think this would have happened. He had been in every one of your offices in me would have understood

1:47:07Stay at the mic.

1:47:09What I don't understand, Catherine, that you had to rush the vote that day. You you're whispering, When can we vote? And then you're whispering.

1:47:18The September twenty-eighth, twenty one, twenty one about the July Drive Go that nobody knows anything about the land. That's why I'm so angry. I wish I had gotten I wish I'd gotten dragged out of the courtroom and been on TV because we'd have got publicity and this wouldn't be happening.

1:47:32All right. Thank you very much. Does um anyone else wish to address the ball? Okay, come on now. Uh give them a second to get gather their things.

1:47:40Doesn't matter what said today, it's already done and done. Ex parte communication means that we are screwed, that's all.

1:47:48Excuse me, Pretty unhappy with you guys and what you've done. We used to get like friendly to the green right there and all of a sudden.

1:47:55Okay. Um can you um step away so we can have the next speaker? Thank you very much. Oh, we're gonna get a close up view.

1:48:06Thank you.

1:48:09is on a land anymore for Indians.

1:48:13Yeah. All right. Thank you.

1:48:15Thank you.

1:48:16Hmm.

1:48:18Okay. Hi. Hi, for the record I was sworn in. You can lift up the mic. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Kathryn Baxter Pulanitsa. I live at [address removed]. Um I'm here on behalf of uh all of my neighbors. I again I have around a hundred petition signatures um to hopefully stop this development. Um Per the last meeting, I think

1:48:48we were able to see a lot of things that were not expressed. Um I had multiple neighbors who will be directly impacted by this subdivision being built, reach out and have absolutely no idea this was happening. There was no letter sent to them. People who live on Dog Patch Land reaching out to me directly have having no idea that this was going to uh proceed. Um that this was even in in the realm of possibility. Um I think that our environmental impact Um as

1:49:19stated from Barbara last time, there actually will be wetland distribu uh disruption. They will be ruining our wetlands and you know It said it's just uh it's just a quarter of an acre. It is still a quarter of an acre and to allow these um allow these uh gopher tortoises and animals to have healthy, sustainable lives, they need the wetlands and they need the They need the ability to flow back and forth

1:49:49from these wetlands. And when you build a development like this, you're taking away a lot of their land. I think there's a lot of issues as well as with our schools, and I know we have people here to address that. However, I know firsthand our children at Oakstead Elementary are already in portables. We have two more developments with over 300 homes being built in that same area. With no No uh help of building a new school anytime soon. Where are these children supposed to go? Then you're adding in another homes, another hundred

1:50:19homes, with the expectation of these children have nowhere to go. Um, I believe that our children should have the right to a great education and with overflowing schools and under under developed um infrastructure for the schools, uh you're setting them up for failure. So I plead with you guys to hopefully halt this. Um on behalf of all of my neighbors who cannot be here at t on a Tuesday at one thirty in the afternoon. Um I speak

1:50:49on behalf of them and yeah, thank you.

1:50:52Thanks. Uh can you tell me what I've been trying to find at Have Lock?

1:50:56Yes. [address removed]. H-A-V-E. L O C

1:51:03K E Oh, C K E L I don't know, it's not showing up here. And how long have you lived in the area?

1:51:08We um are originally from Fort Myers. We moved to the area in twenty nineteen, purchased our house in twenty

1:51:13nineteen. Two years ago. So were you So Okay. Well that answers it right there. Yeah. Thank you very much.

1:51:23Okay, let's let the applicant oh wait is there anyone else here that wishes to speak? Okay, come on up. And if there's anyone else, please line up behind her and that's gonna be the end of public comment here. Do we have anyone online?

1:51:33No one's online for this.

1:51:35Okay, so unless someone stands up and gets behind this young lady, then you're gonna be the last speaker. Thanks for calling me

1:51:41yo. Okay. My name is Pat Rubracht and I live at [address removed]. My road is right off of Lake

1:51:49Patience Road. Oh, I was not. Then if you would please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

1:51:59Yes. Thank you. I do.

1:52:03Uh the road I live on is right off of Lake Patience Road, which will be impacted by this new development. My biggest concern with this new development of 107 homes is the impact of traffic on Lake Patients Road and the impact it will bring to our already overcrowded schools, especially Oakstead Elementary School. Which when it opened ten years ago opened with portable classrooms.

1:52:31I also worry about the additional traffic in front of the school. There's going to have to be more buses to bus these kids from these new subdivisions on Lake Patience Road and this one on Joy Drive. We already have a shortage of bus drivers. Not to mention the additional cars it will bring with people taking their kids to school.

1:52:53The traffic is already terrible right at uh the beginning of school and end of school.

1:53:02Um a previous spoker already a previous speaker already spoke about my concern about the intersection at Lake Patience and 41. Unfortunately, I saw one of those accidents yesterday. It's a common occurrence. The developer has purchased 3.5 acres to gain entrance into the subdivision on the forty acre block. However, as I understand it, only twenty four acres of this property is usable, as the rest are wetlands. Therefore, including the road

1:53:32structure, you're cramming 107 homes onto approximately 24 acres, including the road coverage. That's one house per every one-sixth of an acre.

1:53:45We moved to Pasco County about sixteen and a half years ago to get out of the busy hectic Tampa traffic. We liked it out here because it was rural. Since then of course we've seen a lot of develop development Вчін і пакте сомач. As this one will. This one will because of the the other two subdivisions, Poulty with 400 homes, and the new subdivision with the rental homes. Lake Patience and Oakstead are two lane

1:54:16roads. So if, you know, there was one car per house, that could be 700 more cars traveling Lake Patience and Oakstead Boulevard.

1:54:29I just feel like

1:54:32Um You're cramming this into sensitive wetlands surrounding la Lake Patients and Little Lake Patients watersheds. I live on Little Lake Patients and it has been cleaned up and improved over the last ten years and provides a nice community for the old Florida homes. This includes a huge population of deer that roam freely in everyone's yards and wetlands in this area is a huge natural habitat, not only for the deer, but turkey and gopher tortoises. This land is irreplaceable and does not deserve a high

1:55:02density subdivision.

1:55:05Thank you.

1:55:05Thank

1:55:06you very much. Okay, um I think that was our last speaker, so we'll have the applicant come back. I What and I am kinda curious, what is the future plan for Lake Patience, if anyone Can answer that at some point.

1:55:20Thank you. I'm I'm hopeful staff or maybe Ali can talk about it. Lake Patience in 41, it's quite a distance from our project.

1:55:29And I would assume that your students won't need to be bused to Oakstead Elementary.

1:55:36That's correct. Yeah. Um So when the s issue of schools came up at Planning Commission, uh Chris Williams was there um and spoke. to the Planning Commission. It's a little difficult 'cause He's not here with you all, so I have to relay we know we've typed up his his his testimony and we'll relay it to you. But I can tell you when it comes to schools, we get asked about it a lot, before we make an application to the county to rezone property, we make an application to the school board. They know every rezoning that's

1:56:06going on in your county. Then when a construction plan comes in, they get an application again. And so they know exactly when houses are coming online. So they are working hard to get the schools in place. Relative to um what what Chris Williams explained Is that they're constructing a new K through eight. Um school and it's going to take all of Oakstead's boundary that is currently south of fifty-four. So that'll provide significant relief to Oakstead.

1:56:36These are his words, not mine. at the time and also to Bexley. He said we are hoping that that K three eight school of enough capacity that others will be able to choo choice in to that school as well as um they might want to have that K three eight experience and that'll add additional to relief to Oakstead as they choose to go to that new K eight school they're working on. So they're looking to expand the drop off and pick up loop at at Oakstead and add some capacity? He said that our project at

1:57:06the most will add twenty elementary school students if they all elected to go to public school at Oakstead. This is many students are choosing, they're seeing them choose magnet schools and charter schools. So the m the vast majority of growth in the Oakstead boundary is finished, but there is still some growth coming to Oakstead, but the addition of the K three eight school to the south of 54 by Ballantray is planned to provide a bulk of relief to Oakstead in a couple years when our houses will be coming online. But I thought it was important to share to you, share with you, because we don't have anybody from the school board

1:57:36here, but that's the testimony. Um That he gave to the Planning Commission. And they also object didn't object to the project and actually voted recommended it voted to recommend to you all to approve it. As far as notice goes, when uh Madame Holmes first put this property under contract before they even came to me. Mac would explain to you that he sent out notices to all the actual neighbors on Joy and as well as on Dog Patch and uh wanted them to call him if they had any questions.

1:58:07And he had a couple of folks that called and asked questions. We have not heard from any of those neighbors, despite specifically noticing them again. I noticed them again and we posted the property. We go through extensive listed species review in connection with an MPUD and we have quite a few conditions of approval. We are completely compliant with the land development code in that regard. We'll be will be reviewed again when we come in with construction plans because those listed species surveys are only good for 18 months. A little unusual of this project is that our category

1:58:38one wetlands have to go into a conservation easement. I haven't seen the county uh in implementing that on projects, but that's what we'll have to do. We have a small impact, a four hundred square feet impact to a wetland on site, but other than that the rest of all of our wetlands and their buffer are going to go into a conservation easement. We've gone through all the things that we have to do.

1:59:00Who manages that easily?

1:59:03I guess I'm gonna find that out because I have not the county's never asked anybody for a conservation easement. Uh yeah.

1:59:09I'm not familiar with that.

1:59:10So I'm I'm interested I'm interested in that process as well but but I haven't gone through it yet. So We've gone through all the requirements for our road review. We have substandard road improvements that we'll need to make to uh dog patch and joy drive. at Lake Patience and Joy Drive, that intersection. We're gonna work with MI and the county. To do a left turn lane improvement. So w our traffic and MA's traffic and will be not no longer in the lane of travel as we turn

1:59:40left into Joy Drive from Lake Patience. As you heard one of the speakers talk about, MI did have a project approved. Um a similar type project. on Joy Drive in 2021 and they're working, we're working together with the county to to put that turn lane in. We're consistent with that project approval. We're consistent with our Res 3 land use. Your vision for this property is the South Market area and your urban service area where you where you want to have development. You have utilities in place. Um which

2:00:10is supports the level of density. We are not cramming anything in. We are doing a three units per acre project. Um With fifty foot homes, monotony control and architectural details and all the things that uh you're asking for projects to do today.

2:00:28We would ask for your support today. We have gone through the process. We've followed the process. It's a long process. We've answered all the questions. We've we've done everything we have to do to move this forward and we'd ask for your support.

2:00:40Okay, and um the density is R three? Yes, three units

2:00:46per developable acre.

2:00:47And um I know you used to be assistant county administrator and you were here when we did I mean attorney, not administrator, sorry. Uh this is not sprawl, right? This is infill development.

2:00:59That's correct. We're following your utility policies. You actually have a policy where you have central water and sewer, the minimum density. is three units per acre. So that's why where you have utilities you see res three land uses, res six land uses, because the minimum density When you have made that public investment in infrastructure is three units per acre. So we're sitting right at that minimum for the infrastructure you have in place.

2:01:22Yeah, so

2:01:25Um Barbara that there's a neighborhood to the northwest. It says uh Havelot Drive.

2:01:31That's part of Oakstead, I think.

2:01:33Yeah. So those are smaller lots.

2:01:35Yes.

2:01:36Those are smaller lots. About house.

2:01:39Oakstead's very similar, very similar development.

2:01:41Yeah, I was to say it looks pretty similar to what you're proposing.

2:01:45And we do have a large category one I I Got off on this conservation easement thing, but In between those Oakstead houses, homes and our homes, there's a large category of one wetland there. Um you can kind of see it in the darker green. So you can see where those homes are and then you can see the darker green is the wetland line there. Um I can see it just but I'm sure you can see it too from the aerial. So there is that large category one wet one is on our west side and I think Liam had mentioned that's why we're not providing any connections

2:02:15to the West because of um because of that large wetland. So they have a large buffer there.

2:02:22And we will comply with all of the listed species requirements. I mean I wrote all those. So I know 'em well.

2:02:28Thank you. And I think you Madam Clerk and I think when it came to the um it was part of about the traffic signal. I think that's something that um I don't know if you guys hear from the MPO or not, but we can put that on the agenda for the next thanks Mike. Yeah, I can speak about that.

2:02:46We're at August September MPO meeting. Let's look at that and see where that is. That's fine. We're currently far away from this project. You can't obviously ask the uh the developer of this project to obviously pay for a single that's I don't know how many miles away is, but at the same time it's something that we should bring up and look. I don't disagree. So we should uh look at moving that forward. I know where um close to where I live there was a single that that took fifty So to get put in, even though it was approved, it took a long time. It looked a lot it took a

2:03:16long time to get there and then you know everybody felt the pain. So um yeah, if we can g thanks Mike, we can September June, that'd be great. Thank you.

2:03:25Frankly I'm not looking at Dog Patch Lane. Um Yeah, I think there's some interesting maybe on lawful business is going on on Doc Patch Lane, so I would Send code out there to take a look. Uh Okay. It is there's no one else here online than it is to the board.

2:03:50Madam Chairman Mariano. Yeah. Um you asked a question about how wide is the path going to be and looking primarily are most of the residents gonna walk come down to the south to get out?

2:04:01Yes.

2:04:02Okay, so you got a narrow stretch. I I I don't see a site plan as far as where the homes are gonna go, what's light up, but uh could you put a wider trail, like an eight foot trail, instead of a five foot trail?

2:04:13Well we don't we're not at Site Plan, but where are are you thinking the trail?

2:04:17Well if everyone's gonna go into the south to get out five foot trail, especially kids.

2:04:24It's one it's one rider at a time, or one one walk maybe two walkers, but it's It's n it's the very minimum you would want from any kind of multi-use.

2:04:38So I don't know what the layout looks

2:04:40like. So it's only 107 homes though for

2:04:43but it is it is connecting to the master trail to the north and the elementary school to the south. So the kids who live in the development just to the north of this when that comes in are gonna wanna go through here to get to that school. So Um It's har it would be dangerous for them. They'd be riding in the street because it's hard to ride on a little a five foot sidewalk. That's just It's better if you could figure maybe put the sidewalk on one side. I don't know.

2:05:15But I'm saying that's just the the minimum. And that's why I brought that up. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

2:05:22Yeah, no.

2:05:23No, you know,

2:05:24thank you. I think it's I think it's really hard to site plan a project at at this stage. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm

2:05:31not going to try.

2:05:32We all have sidewalks on All roads require sidewalks on both sides and and so

2:05:37Yeah.

2:05:37Just what

2:05:38are

2:05:38the

2:05:38amenities in here? Uh and it it's could a multi use path somewhere in here be an amenity or

2:05:46I just don't know.

2:05:50I'm not sure.

2:05:53You the you know the Does we want there to be access to the school? And we want there to be access to the

2:06:01trail. I mean especially if we have children out that that don't get bus service. They get more kids traveling. This is like something I would think the school board would even ask for. I don't know why they wouldn't have. But I mean that that type of access has got to be a good thing for the community. We just had one on uh five A Road by the library coming in. They went from a five foot to an eight foot. Yeah. Because the trail was gonna come in there.

2:06:22Yeah, eight foot.

2:06:23I mean there's is you is you so

2:06:25I think the developer's sitting here. Is

2:06:26the developer willing to put a

2:06:27eight foot eight foot

2:06:28path or no?

2:06:29So I was hearing that That's right. D will it come back to us for site plan approval? It will not. It will not. Okay. So we gotta ask we gotta ask for it now.

2:06:38Yeah, you're you're trying to plan a project that we don't have, you know, it's hard to plan a project. This is a very small project.

2:06:46Yeah, but an eight foot an eight foot would be really good on one side, not both sides.

2:06:53I don't know what I'm saying. We don't know what the the layout looks like and we're not gonna see it. We don't. But if it's how do you wanna word that?

2:07:03I got twenty kids coming down to school in the morning, they're coming down that one.

2:07:06Well you

2:07:06got

2:07:06the neighborhood above it too, that's

2:07:09I mean it's not a bad thing for a a nice trail in a in a neighborhood. As a matter of fact, look at Seven Oaks, how great that place is. Nice wide trails.

2:07:17Starkey Range.

2:07:18The students to the West, are they gonna there's no connection for them to come into this neighborhood to go on that sidewalk. So where what way does Just have lock in trouble.

2:07:34Because I do agree that we need sidewalks, especially with our students not being able to be bused to school.

2:07:41There's there are sidewalks. We're just saying can it be a wider sidewalk, that's all. I mean sidewalk is the minimum.

2:07:52To answer your question, Commissioner, um there will be no connection to the West. So if you're thinking there's connection to Oakstead to the West, there won't be any because there is that category one wetland there. So I think what they're referring to is the parcel above that would have connection. That's not currently developed.

2:08:10It's not bad. Thank you.

2:08:17And Commissioner, I stopped you from asking a question to Liam before. I don't know if you remember what it was. Um Did we go back to public comment? No, that was okay. Okay.

2:08:36And I the applicant I mentioned at one point I thought that they were improving dog patch. So would the sidewalk go down in a a long dog patch? Or where would the sidewalk be?

2:08:47S so we have not done our improvements to Dog Patch or Joy Drive. But if you're talking about internal sidewalks, because that's what we're We're working on I mean I think the problem is we gave up an easement on our east side. 'Cause the folks on the east side they're road. It doesn't sit on their property, it sits on this property. So we're just a What happens is between those wetlands and The easement we gave up on the east side. it's really hard to site plan their project here.

2:09:18Um

2:09:20And if you put a firm requirement in and then they can't do it Because we're squeezed between those wetlands and the and the easement that we're giving to the Joy Drive folks 'cause they don't have their road on their own property. It's just pretty scary my client to to make that leap. Is there sometimes it's easy to make leaps? We may I make leaps here with you all the time. It's just this one's difficult to make that leap.

2:09:45Well, uh is there a sidewalk on Joy Drive? No. Okay, so this is gonna be one of those it's not his responsibility, but this is gonna be one of those deals where we're gonna this is gonna get added to our safe routes to school list and we're gonna have to put a sidewalk on Joy Drive. But so we'll have to we'll have to plan for that. And and there's gonna be a lot of that um as we infill in some of these areas.

2:10:15Well

2:10:20Yeah, I agree. I mean I think it's gonna be up to us to try and put something on joy. Toublo. See if the county can't come and put something on there. But

2:10:30but why wouldn't we ask now? We're in development stage right now. They can design it right now. It's very inexpensive of them to it. If we could do it You know how many projects we have on the side on the sidewalk this for over 20 years in the MPO? And now we got more coming with all the with the new terms of schools?

2:10:44Did we approve the project that's north of this project already? No.

2:10:49You've

2:10:49approved

2:10:50the MI project, which is south and east.

2:10:54I mean d at a minimum we should look at it from one side of the d development of the other side, from around the sidewalks connecting from the southern part to the northern part, he should be able to find at least one side of the trip development to put a trail through. You can have a hundred, two hundred, uh, twenty kids going to school? One trail and then who's ever gonna come above? This is the time to ask.

2:11:15So um can we ask for To not put a sidewalk on one side and combine them both on the other? I'm asking Terry.

2:11:28Or four foot on one side and a six foot on the other or I mean that's Well let them are they gonna answer first. Let them answer first.

2:11:37Yeah.

2:11:39Hang on, hang on, Brent.

2:11:40Oh just a master, yeah.

2:11:43Red tip and planning and development. Joy Drive would most likely be considered a substandard road, so there are some processes to handle how the substandard road is is done. And this development is is not a a large development. It's only a hundred units or so. So that would be something that would be done with a contribution towards the substandard road. And you can look at all of the different areas there to see who would need to contribute to that. The county probably with the school uh upgrades for the side books would also need to be a part of that. What happens

2:12:13within their site, the MPUD, you can obviously request whatever it is that you would like to see there. And we, you know, when it comes to the design in the in the site review stage will we'll certainly implement that. But off-site it gets a little bit more tricky there because of the size of the subdivision itself.

2:12:32So this is w you know, the challenges we have when we have subs little pockets of developments come in. And uh we can't It's not fair to burden them too much with what comes in, but we We need to have an overall plan and they have to be they have to be par somehow be part of that plan. If it's to pay in to build a multi use trail along Joy so that those students can actively and safely get to get around or anybody Then th that ne

2:13:02that needs to be part of your plan for the area, in my opinion.

2:13:06Madam Chairman M this is a master plan unit development. That's the zoning category we're going to, right? I can't recall the last one I've seen where we didn't see at least the plan, the layout where it was gonna go.

2:13:15Yeah, yeah.

2:13:16I've I've never seen this before.

2:13:18Well yeah, this is the normal process. But um that My client has agreed to make one of his sidewalks that goes north to south uh eight feet instead of five feet, and we can put that in the MPD conditions and hopefully it'll all fit.

2:13:33That's great, but we're gonna have responsibility at the end of his Project. to get it further on. I mean But but it's good to have that piece and we're gonna have to put that same responsibility on the development to the north so that the residents in this development can get up to the trail and safely use a multimodal way to get to work.

2:13:59I'll amend my motion then to um add in the eight foot sidewalk on one side of

2:14:07one side only internal to his project yes not on every one just one

2:14:11that's

2:14:12yeah

2:14:12that's my

2:14:12motion yeah excellent thank you very much okay all in favor aye opposed thank you remember that for the one to the north.