Skip to main content
Pasco Countymeeting record

PDD-23-7633

Published agenda

4 appearances between Mar 16, 2023 and Jun 20, 2023, at 2 boards — continued 2 times.

OutcomeApproved by the Board of County Commissioners on Jun 20, 2023
Approved Staff’s recommendation by a roll call vote.

Official title

Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Palm Wind MPUD Master Planned Unit Development – Taylor Morrison of Florida, Inc – Rezoning Request from an A- R Agricultural-Residential District and A-C Agricultural District to an MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District to Allow a Maximum of 319 Single- family Detached Units on Approximately 116.75 Acres

On a calendar

Mar 16, 2023 → Jun 20, 2023 · click a mark to jump to that appearance

Every appearance3 of 4 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 60% of 509 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 4 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

  1. 1
    Planning CommissionP7Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

    Zoning Amendment (Regular) – … MPUD Master Planned Unit Development – Development– Taylor Morrison of Florida, Inc – Inc– Rezoning Request from an A- R A-R Agricultural-Residential District and A-C … Units on Approximately 116.75 Acres Acres.

    Open this item →No recording
  2. 2
    Board of County CommissionersP55Public hearingContinued
    Approved minutes

    Approved to continue the item to the May 23, 2023 Board of County Commissioner’s meeting at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey.

    Open this item →
    1h 15m
    Jack MarianoChair

    All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And last item, P 55.

    Unidentified speakerVoice A

    The item was published in the Tampa Bay Times on March 1st, 2023.

    Orlando Borraz

    Good afternoon, this is Orlando Borraz. Sorry. Can you hear me now? Is it better? Okay, perfect. Um this is Orlando Borraz from Current Planning. Um before starting this presentation, I would like to submit some um expertise into the record, which also um a different document. It has some scripting errors, so I would like to to make this into record. Building two and file.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And curve.

    And just for the board, I just had met with the applicants right before this meeting.

    Orlando Borraz

    Good. So this is going to be palmed with M P D, P D twenty three, seventy six, um thirty-three. This is going to be the location of this object property. This is going to be the zoning districts surrounding the area. And this is going to be the fusion line you so surrounding also the area. The applicant is requesting um a change in the zoning district from AR and AC to an MPUD allowing three hundred

    and nineteen single family DASH units in approximately one hundred and sixteen point seventy five acres. The applicant is also requesting the following deviation from the LDC 901.6.D.11 street access to adjoining property. Applicant is requesting to not interconnect in the south side of the subject property.

    PDD staff is amenable with the uh to grant this relief, I'm sorry, of this section of the land development code since the applicant will be providing an emergency access only to Fairwinds Road. This will be the traffic on Fairwinds Road, I'm sorry, which is not designed to serve high volume of traffic. This is going to be the master plan. And this is going to be the findings of fact. The LDC specifies that variations from this code may be reviewed and approved by the PC and the BCC during the public hearing. Held on any application for

    an MPUD zoning amendment. Variations should be allowed where the BCC specifically finds in the particular case that the proposed variations meet or exceed the intent of this code. PDD staff has reviewed this um variation and have found that they made or exceed the intent of the code the intent of the code. I'm sorry. PED staff has identified a Coney Road is a Vision Road. will be uh the the uh the alignment is going to be shifted to the west. Therefore the proposed development will not need to dedicate any additional right of way to this vision

    road. Before going to the next finding of fact I would like to show you how it's going to be looking now the uh vision road that is being shifted to the west.

    I'm sorry, can you

    Kathryn Starkey

    hear children?

    Someone wasn't happy. Thank

    Joanna Cheshire

    you.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Who's um who was the applicant again?

    Orlando Borraz

    Oh, it's going to be Taylor Morrison, represented by uh Mr. Clark Hobby.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Okay, but it says naturist religious society. So that's who they're buying it from.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    It's not right.

    Orlando Borraz

    Thank you.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Well while you're there on that page before you

    Orlando Borraz

    change it. That's uh yeah, I I was trying to zoom in, I'm sorry. Okay. Um this is going to be how division road is going to be shifted to the west and how it's going to be looking after that shift to the west. Okay. Previously it was going to go through the subject property now to avoid any impact on the wetland. It's going to go to the west.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay. Now that's based upon a broad study that was done in two 2001. thousand

    Orlando Borraz

    Sorry, can you repeat that again?

    Jack MarianoChair

    That's done on a route study that was done in 2001.

    Orlando Borraz

    Um Yeah.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Yes, that's based on the route study from two thousand one. There's a a wetland right there. Obviously that the you know the the typical vision map doesn't necessarily take that into account until the route studies are done and the route studies are done and they try to weave around and reduce the impact. So is this how the the preferred route is that route that you see there where it goes just west. And in this actual image, the red line there that you see the red outline that is is the westernmost portion of this particular project. So

    Jack MarianoChair

    Um Well let's let's keep going on. I don't know. I'll touch

    Kathryn Starkey

    more on that later. That's I don't really understand what's going on there.

    Orlando Borraz

    And the final finding of All this Confusion. Um the proposed request is going to be consistent with the Pasco County L D C Chapter four hundred subsection four oh two point two zoning amendment MPUD master plan unit development and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Mm-hmm.

    Planning commission and PD staff recommends approval with conditions.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Um Okay. Mr. Starkey.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I don't know maybe I should ask after Clark. Clark are you making a presentation? I I I I wanna I'm sorry I don't remember what the interconnections are. But I don't like not connecting to the south or having a stub out Yeah, I understand it's a a it's a nature. And that I understand it's a unique neighborhood to the south. Is it a gated neighborhood to the south?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    It it is not gated. Clark Hobby and Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brush Street, Tampa, Florida. Commissioner, uh I can go through our presentation and give you a little better feeling of some updates that that we're gonna make in the area and may help your your thoughts about this and be a little bit more consistent with them. So let me let me just run through the presentation generally. Um we have our whole team with Atwell here, Steve Hendries here on on uh traffic, and Brian Skidmore's here on

    environmental stuff. So I'll I'll just get to it. You guys are generally familiar with the area, as you'll see in a minute. The sites about 117 acres. It's res 3. This whole area is basically res 3 or res 6. And as you'll see in just a minute, the area is basically from the Colony Road where it's going to go straight up up to Hudson Avenue, almost all of the parcels between there and the Sun Coast have been

    built out. You can see there's the Res 3 and Res 6 areas. And you're looking generally at Meadow Oaks to are closer to us on the eastern side, and then Lakeside, which is in the Res 6 area that's off of Hudson Avenue up there. They're both substantially larger than this project. They're roughly three times. Each one of them is roughly three times the size of this. And they both have the same lot sizes. The

    area has been res 3 that we're in for a long period of time, so there's really nothing new here. It's been planned for uh being built out at res 3 densities. It's not in the Hudson Rural Area, which is on the other side of Hudson Avenue. And again, here's the map showing you all the MPUDs and other projects that have been built out over the last 20 to 30 years. And again, Lakeside and Meadow Oaks, which are in close proximity to us, are roughly two and a half to three times the size of

    this project and have the same size lots that we're Proposing. So I'll uh I'm just gonna try to run through the access points here and I I've got a couple of updates uh that we wanna make and one thing that I did in the conditions to respond to general board discussion about smaller lots, you know, issues that we're seeing in MPUDs, residential things. Um So first let me discuss one condition that we added

    that's already in the package that you have now. We've added a condition that says if we do have any on-street parking, we will restrict it to only one side of the street so that that way we're not blocking people who need to provide services in the community and we're not creating a problem for emergency. Emergency responders. So that's already in your package. Then and uh what I do want to add here, and I'll I guess first I should explain the access points we

    had already previously worked out with staff. So we had two access points onto Hudson Ave, and in working with Brad and his staff, we had already aligned access points on the east that go through an area of Mr. Wynn's property, he'll probably speak in a few minutes, but they align with an access that he provided on what's known as Wynne Lane to one of his neighbors and it it gets out over to Wynne Ranch Road over on that side. Then on our western side

    we have an arrow over there and in both of these cases where the arrows are on the one I am speaking of now and the previous one, we have agreed to stabilize the area and to make a contribution to the county for paving that when the time is right. Okay?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Paving what?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Paving the stub out from where our street would be back to our boundary line, and we're giving an easement over it so that the neighbors can get into our project and through our project on both of those.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Is that shown here? Because I don't see

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    what's in the conditions, but it's for those two arrows, the one on the western side and the one on the eastern side. Now, one of the

    We are going to and I'm going to ask the board if it you know approves this to to make a motion to include moving that access point down to align with the southerly east-west road that's just south of where it is now along the western side. So the southerly east-west road, it would be moved south from where it is shown on the master plan down to align with that. Uh as you heard from staff Colony Road, there while there is a little small like 10 or 20

    foot area of existing right-of-way, that's not where the road ultimately is going to be widened up to Hudson Avenue. And we're trying to get it as close as we can to align with where it starts peeling off of the site so that there will be a good functional interconnection there. Now, Commissioner Starkey, with regard to the connection to fair winds, if you all don't mind, and this may take just a little bit more, and I want to respond at linked to Commissioner Starkey's concerns, I want to make a change to the

    conditions about fair winds, and let me explain my logic to you if you will allow me. We only have 30 feet of area or right-of-way to get to Fair Winds. We do not have enough area to have a full vehicular connection. So previously the conditions required us just to provide the emergency access, which is just a stabilized Road for them. It's usually dirt but stabilized so emergency access could get through

    there. And discussing it, you know, and you all saw it had an ex parte and discussions with staff and Commissioner Mariano. I can say now we knocked this around a bit, and I think the best thing for us to do is we can agree we can pave a 12-foot travel lane down the road. That area. It's not wide enough to pave a full road, but we'll pave it. And it's going to be my motion would be, or to ask you all to make, would be that it would be remain emergency access

    for vehicles, but because we're paving a 12-foot path, it would be big enough for golf carts, bike, and pedestrian access to fairwinds. And again, my logic on this, Commissioner Starkey, is that Fair Winds, while it's functioning to some degree as a collector road for Meadow Oaks, it was not designed that way. It's not striped and it doesn't meet all the requirements for a collector road. And and also because generally we're up against a nudist resort on one side of the thing, we never

    thought that it was a wise um thing to have a full access down there. I just thought it would not be in keeping with having a lot of traffic down there with a more rural area and a road that doesn't meet collector requirements. So that that was our thought there. and we don't have the right away to build a full road down there. So um do you wanna talk about that further?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well um Y you know, I'm I just think it's really important that we really, really focus on connectivity. Um Yeah. I can't really tell from this map. But you're saying you have a connection to the east, a connection to the west, a connection to the north.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Right. The only thing we don't have, and it's only because we only have thirty feet of area to get down to fairwinds, if we had fifty feet, we would build a full on road down there. We're not gating the community, that wasn't the intent. It's just we don't have enough area to build a two lane road there. So that's why our thought was really the smartest thing to do, let's go ahead and pave it. We'll take all the retention on our site and all that stuff. But it would be emergency access only for vehicles

    and otherwise we can have golf carts and bike and pet on it. And that's good, you know, with the golf course at Meadow Oaks.

    Kathryn Starkey

    So um is that the end of your presentation?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I I I can r I can wrap it up now and answer questions. Yeah,

    Jack MarianoChair

    hang on for a second. Let me let me get into a couple other things to talk about too, because it's the in interconnectivity of this area is is huge. It is another one of those fragmented areas like we have up at Hudson and New York Avenue where we don't have the connection. Colony Road, if you you can put the map up that shows the aerial shot of the area

    Kathryn Starkey

    that I'm trying to find on my map.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    It's not in my

    Jack MarianoChair

    That's actually that was actually a good map we just had. That That previous slide.

    Okay. So if you if you look in the purple section where it says Colony Road coming up from State Road 52 going up. It goes past Fairwinds Drive into a cross. road which is called Fox Fire, which is the first lightly covered road right below the yellow section. Of that's there. Um They don't have any connection to that property there, but the Vision Road takes Colony Road straight up until their section. At the yellow. And then it, as Clark said, peels off to the side of that retention bond

    and going up there. Now that roads road study was done back in 2001. Um you could have gone either way with it. They chose to go that way.

    Uh if we can get the land for that later on to make that connection. There's no development. Looks like a lot of dirt bikes in there. Then we can make that road happen. Um You know We don't have the money for the road. But with the impact fee that this would generate you could actually improve this area dramatically by making that a connection from Hudson F to fifty two for everybody in there. And that would probably take some of the stress off the Fairwinds Drive Road. to get people that's gonna go out this way here if they're gonna go north south. on on Colony Road, they

    can go out that way. And that should take some of the stress off Yeah. And Commissioner Starkey, I I know there was some resistance. Clark, you can talk about it for the people at Meadow Oaks that were worried about connecting Fairwinds Drive Down.

    don't want to pursue doing it but to their best. If you want if you wanna go that way, um politically was trying to save some heat from us, but if you really want to make that connection happen, I don't have a big objection to it. Um so that's that that can be part of the conversation depending on how the public comment goes.

    Kathryn Starkey

    So here's my beef with the way we're approved we approved these. And and I would say to you Uh and to staff and maybe as a suggestion for the future. I sure would like to see what the planned ro grid network is for roads. I have no idea. I have I am I am voting blind. if I ma if am I making a good decision or a bad decision that I'm gonna be Uh getting gridlock on some of

    these roads because there's no connectivity. And then I you know I'm always looking out for a trail system and where is it here? So I have no idea. Um I see this Angled thing over here, is that something that maybe one day we plan to put a trail on? I I said

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Commissioner Starkey, that's that's the colony road extension which That

    Kathryn Starkey

    angle that's coming down from the A?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    No, no. Might be helpful if we can get that other exhibit up that shows

    Kathryn Starkey

    I just wish we'd get a map like that to you know that we could see how things fit in the big plan.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Well and I'll tell you, Commissioner Starkey, in that area right there Well that was just a little bit to the side, there's actually Peachtree

    We repave Peachtree Drive so the road comes straight on down. Then it goes over to the side and comes back on down to hit fairwinds to then go over. That's how I would go to Meadow Oaks for my house.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Yeah, I I have I don't know that your area like you do. And

    Jack MarianoChair

    so

    Kathryn Starkey

    we're we're voting blind over here.

    Jack MarianoChair

    And and well the s the sad thing is They they paved Peachtree without talking about it. They didn't even bring up the opportunity to actually look at

    um colony road done and connected, which would have been a much better use of dollars And suppose set of paving the other road. It's It is it is is an important thing as far as where the grid is, but this this part right here is a pure connection that needs to be done and can be done. So Commissioner

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Starkey, the the upshot of what you're talking about is this road, Colony Road, went crazy. Sorry. Um it's intended to be a north-south making a grid through this area. And that's it's a vision road. and their the board approved a route study a long time ago. The only issue is the board doesn't have any funding for this road, but it's basically paralleling haze. Like in this area, that will be the main north-south collector

    road.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Where is my map of the road network and proposed or not in this area? How do I n I I I have no idea what what's going on out there. Um Brad's

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    been planning and development. Uh that is a very difficult thing to do, um especially in an area like this. We have vision roads, which we do have a general map of where the vision roads are. You do, but

    Kathryn Starkey

    we don't have it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Well that's what this was.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I have no idea what that's connecting to.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Okay, that's colony right there. And that the red line that's there on the outline is the western boundary of this property. So colony comes up and curves off to the west of this property to get around that west.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I mean it's Russian to me. I I I don't know I don't have the picture of how people are going to get around in that area.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    So that that is what I wanted to explain real briefly is that the roadway can network uh the roadway network connections that you're speaking about generally are not necessarily our vision roads. They're connections between subdivisions that are local. road connections and things like that. Those are not going to be on a vision map or something. But what happens is when one project comes in and does a stub out, there's a requirement in our code that other projects need to connect. So over time that creates a network, which is why in this particular one you see four. Yeah, well I'm I'm glad for that. So that's

    that's one of the things that we do when we have these that are kind of there's really nothing to show. what you would like to see at this point because those others aren't there, you just have to envision that from this one, from those four, those connections are gonna be the connections and the routes.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well I I still gonna go back to my point that we should have a plan. And it seems to me that as we fill in it should be adhering to our plan. And I I'm not I'm not knocking Clark. I'm I I'm just saying we're not going to be able to do that. I I don't think we're We don't see that big plan. I just get little pieces and I have no idea. I and

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I understand what you're saying. But let me let me I would tell you this. When you all speak up here on projects specifically or in general, it's taken to heart by your staff. And the reason why I know that is immediately after you all had a hearing a month ago, Brad called me based on the comments on another project that I believe Ms. Wilhite had and said, You better show an interconnection everywhere you can because that's what our board wants and that's what

    we did here. The only thing I can't do, and it's literally just because we don't have the area to fit it. I I don't have the ability to build fair ones as a red. That's my only thing.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I'm I'm happy with your connections. I just wish I could see how it's

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    into the big

    Kathryn Starkey

    plan.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    that we need to try to interconnect everywhere we can when we come in with new larger MPUDs.

    Kathryn Starkey

    So and so and the other question I have, and I you know, I just asked the County Attorney here, um, and I don't know if we want to do this or not because it is another l level added to us, but I'm curious about the site plan. But we're not gonna see the side plane. Unless we ask to see the site plan. But

    W what are your amenities? What is your green space? W there's a lot of houses here. Is there a clubhouse and a pool?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I I believe yeah, the we have, you

    know,

    our engineer earlier and he told us there there are two parks within the site and there's a series of other amenities. I I'm trying to remember which ones. You guys want to cut a Yeah, yeah Pool and command at Dog Park and there are two parks. I mean this is Taylor Morrison. It's a step up building

    Kathryn Starkey

    community?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    No.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Could you go up to the the full map and let let's Tell me where the roads are you're cut on 'cause I cannot read the

    Kathryn Starkey

    Yeah, we we can't really tell them.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    If I can make

    it a little bit more than a

    where you have all the connections, but I don't quite understand if If you don't have enough

    Jack MarianoChair

    For the future as well, as right now. But I think if you had map pages up We could zoom in and zoom out, it'd make a lot easier. That picture's a pretty good picture to look at. Uh

    But again if you could see like like that Peachtree Road I could show you would be

    Kathryn Starkey

    Where's Peachtree? Like I can't where's

    Jack MarianoChair

    the So if you see where Hudson Avenue says, the H in Hudson, that road coming right down, that's Peachtree. That's a road. No, the one's coming straight down, right below the H of Hudson Avenue.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    I couldn't tell there was a straight road.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I I just wish we'd have we we'd we just need that map in our packet of how it relates to everything around it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Sorry the pointer's also acting up.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    That's a little better, but now tell me the roads.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay, so look in the far left where it says top left of the screen, Hudson Avenue, and then that road coming n north south is Peachtree.

    So when I'm when I'm coming from let's say over in Hudson, I'm not sure if you're And I'm coming down. I'm going to take Hudson Abbey. I'm going to go south on Peachtree. Take the side road coming all the way over where it dead ends to Colony Road. Come down. And if you'll raise it up a little bit.

    Yeah there you go. Then it shows you that road going across that would be fairwinds, I believe. Is that right, Clark?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Foxfire.

    Jack MarianoChair

    No, I know Fox Foxfire goes across, but then you go from Foxfire to the

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    end.

    Then you get on colony. Then Fairwinds is on the southern end there.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    So if you take colony up with the with the route study, basically what it does is get you all the way from fifty-two directly to Hudson Ave with all this ninety degree series of turns you have to make now. And again, when this stuff was built, if you all drive this area, you know, there are it's a series of legacy larger ag manufactured housing and things like that that have been there for a long time and they will redevelop. They will but over time you're going

    to need colony to punch on through so you have that connection. Can we see that?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Can you go

    Jack MarianoChair

    there? Jackie, you brought up a great point as far as the to connectivity and now that we've l looking at this map. Lake Carlitz over there to the side? It connects right into fairwinds going right across.

    Uh it's a

    Go the other way, I'm sorry, zoom in.

    So what's this colony village there?

    It said l it was said Lake Carl, but look at how the colony village Goes around and connects right into fairwinds. Up here intersection going right across.

    Yeah.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    So that goes right across that.

    Fairwinds, even though it's really not built as a collector road, it's already basically providing a good east-west

    Jack MarianoChair

    connection. It's setting up as that. So so what now I'm now I'm um and this is making me change my mind, Clark, from what we just talked about earlier. Now if you would let's go shift it back and let's go look at the connection to Fairwinds.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    So the map would need to go a little bit to the east where that one little sliver is poking up. It's if you stop right there, it's a good one.

    Okay.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So so at the

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    time, it's a little bit more.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Where? I don't know what where the slittle sliver is. What are you talking about? That's a problem. Do you have a pointer?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Just north of there. That one the slippery.

    Kathryn Starkey

    That thing? Mm-hmm. Okay.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So that's it there. So now if we're gonna bring all these homes in, rather than having everybody go up and around Colony Road swinging back over, it actually makes more sense coming straight down and then If they're gonna go to Meadow Oak, whatever, now it's easier to get there. That that does make all the more sense.

    Out to fifty two they can go they'll go out the other way, they'll get on Colony Road and th they'll go that way out. Um I do think they will If they are going to go the other side, they may go either way, but it could still it'll still still break up the transportation network.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    So are you saying that you would be in favor of it not being emergency access done?

    Jack MarianoChair

    I'm I'm leaning that way, but I'll wait for public comment. Yeah,

    Kathryn Starkey

    that that seems cleaner and better for the community.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Again, Commissioner Weight we don't have the area to build more than one travel lane in there.

    Kathryn Starkey

    You mean one one way or

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Yeah, one way. It literally we cannot it's only thirty feet and basically you need at least fifty feet to build a two lane road. That's you can't build it in less than about forty eight to fifty feet because you've got to have side slope support for the road.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Is that where you had the um The exit road?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Right. That was emergency access only. And again, several of the you know members of the public that aren't here but were at Planning Commission were asking us to make sure that was emergency access only. So But

    Kathryn Starkey

    and and that that I'm sorry to cut you off, but we we hear that, but then we then we don't make our network and then you know what? They're very mad because they're out on the collector arterial and they can't move. Because there's no grid. So they they don't have to look at the big long picture.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Right.

    Kathryn Starkey

    But we do. That is our responsibility.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Well again. You all will do what you want, but the only point I'm trying to make is I can't build a two lane road there. So if I make a connection there now it's only with the one Lane road.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    What's what's the minimum width for a road? Uh just We need to pull this up on map or I think so you have a better idea you where you can see the red lines here. Those are actually the property boundaries. Sheik's Road is where we're talking about that connection would be made. Um if you can zoom in there, you'll see.

    There's there's nowhere to to really take right away from those properties. Um Those structures are are right there. It would make those structures unusable. You would essentially have to take those entire lots to be able to afford.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Price.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    That's that is that is an option if that if the residents want to sell. But um it it is a very tight location. That's why we didn't pursue this too far, especially since Fairwinds itself is not a fully standard collector road. Um It seemed like the emergency access with the pedestrian and golf cart connection was a better idea. Then we also put the the connection that you see to the east, that eastern arrow, uh it's a little bit lower in the middle of the subdivision to be able to allow for some of that connectivity

    going across in that direction as well. So we we tried to accommodate as much as we possibly could with with the constraints that are on the site. So you've

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    drawn you've drawn in a single lane exit road. And did you say a golf cart

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    road? So it it won't be a vehicular road. It it will be only it'll essentially be a hardened uh asphalt, you know, uh like a multi use path, but it will be hardened enough so that it can be used by emergency equipment if if ambulance firetruck needs to get through there and get there. Uh it'll be gated to vehicular traffic, but there will be uh a way to allow access for golf carts, pedestrians, bicyclists to be able to move through that area using that paved track.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Why would why would they need to move through there? If it's an exit only.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    I

    got an idea. Yeah.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Commissioner Oakley, the the the answer is you have to have this kind of emergency access and so that's what we are trying to provide. Um down there. But I got an idea. We don't have the area right now to build, you know, the two-lane road with full access. What if we do this in you know two phases or as an interim condition where initially, and and by the way, we have no problem with granting a public access easement over that stretch of the road? That's not an issue at all. But

    what if we say that it's going to be emergency access and we'll build the first line. Lane, okay, on our property, and we're gonna take the drainage, that's no problem. And then when or if the additional right-of-way comes available, you all can build the second lane and at that point it will stop being emergency access and would be a full access.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Okay,

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    let me

    Kathryn Starkey

    let me

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    wouldn't have a problem with that.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Let me take that idea and go one step further.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Okay.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Um what if it is a one way? And emergency Um until y we're able to get the other Land. Necessary Because at least

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    an egress as a for instance, but not an ingress?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Whichever way is ad advantageous to the community. I don't know which way is better, but I mean at least let someone use it so that there's some connectivity.

    Okay, then I'm not sure if you're not going to be able to

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    do I don't have a lot I don't have a lot. I don't think our client cares a lot about that. The only thing I just want to be sensitive to and I I know you all appreciate this. I told several people that our intention was not to have anything but emergency access out on that that road. And if the board wants to go a different direction on it, all I'm saying is that's the board doing that. And again, I don't mind if that's where the board wants to go to say that if you all acquire more land and want to add a second lane that it will then be opened

    up. I just want to make it clear that this is coming from the board and not from me, 'cause that's what I told the residents.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    And Commissioner Oakley

    I mean for exit only. I wouldn't be down the road changing it something else. I mean That

    Jack MarianoChair

    but that to me

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    that doesn't make sense.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Right. But the board makes the decision. Yeah. And if we say we're gonna do it, we're gonna make it happen. Whether he said it that he was gonna pursue it, if we're pursuing it 'cause we think it's the right thing to do. That's what we do.

    Kathryn Starkey

    And then we also continue to finish out the other roads in the area like colony, like you said. And so the more connections there are, the more diffused the traffic is and the less issue it is for anybody.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Yeah, but let me bring up a let me bring up an idea that it could be another alternative to this connection that you're using where you have properties that could be expensive to get later on down the road. What if you shifted over? And I Clark, I don't have your map, so I can't see where that side road is that you had down with the cul-de-sac. But what if you took that cul-de-sac road and brought that straight down Would that hit uh other two properties?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    At least goes through one. I I I can't remember if it goes through one or two. But our again the thought was there's already the Sheik's Road.

    you know, that's there and we're trying to take advantage of that.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I understand, but that would you have thirty foot right-of-way you got properties on both sides, it's gonna be very expensive to get to buy 'em if they don't want to give it up. So what if you look at the

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    right-of-way. So you may

    Jack MarianoChair

    just shift it one way or the other a little bit?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    As you're coming down, we would probably lose lots would be my guess.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Sorry, yeah, well aside from those particular issues and possible impacts to the people that live in that area, uh one of the other things that we need to consider is the trips on uh fairwinds itself. Once we start putting a lot of trips on that road, that road itself is not necessarily standard to be a collector. So that's gonna be a larger improvement that would need to be done. By the county, like it's a local road. These are local roads, correct. And and that's the other thing is what it's a visual. Most people are gonna go out on Hudson.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Most people will use Hudson. But this gives but what if you want to go play some golf or s or go somewhere else, so

    Jack MarianoChair

    I mean the trip to use local.

    Now there's another road that runs North South. That it could line up to as well. If you had to put it in a certain spot. You're really close to a property line. You could shift that to the left And now you just hit one property. I don't know what's on that property if you can.

    So be it but

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I don't wanna uh play engineer from up here, but I do know that the reason why the cul de sac is the way it is, because we're trying to get lots on either side. And if you start shifting the road one way or the other, my sense is you're probably going to start losing a significant num significant number of lots. I mean engineer here and he's head nodding his head. That that's the issue with it. And that's why there's the cul-de-sac there.

    Again, I I hear what the board's trying to do and we're trying to solve, you know, a lot of interconnectivity issues, some of which have been in existence for a long time. But I really think if you think about what I'm proposing that it be you know, a one laner and then if the county can acquire the right-of-way and have two lanes of travel, then opening up as a road. That's not an illogical thing to do.

    Jack MarianoChair

    No, but it could be much more expensive. I've got to buy two lots for people's at homes or abutting it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I'm not sure that we know that much. Now, one thing we could do, and again, this is contrary to what I think Commissioner Mariano has been saying on other projects, but if we eliminate the cul-de-sac, we can bring it straight. Down in now, uh that I don't know if we have lots on the south side, the cul de sac, though. That may cost us lots there. One lot. I I don't commissioner, I I don't know. I mean I have to check with them.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I mean if you have a roadway that is going straight up to Fairwinds, you don't need to call the stag anyway.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    No, but it's it may cause lot loss. Uh uh maybe we should hear from our neighbors and while we do that then maybe um I can speak with my clients, see if I can see what's down in that area.

    Kathryn Starkey

    I think that's a good idea and I I hate when we try and massage them from up here. But um Is that dashed line um Is is that the main road that's the road in the neighborhood?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Right. That's a series of spine roads right in the road.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Okay. What where does that green arrow What does that touch? Is there another road over there? Because that's not clear to me. It's chic. I guess that would be chic.

    Mike Carballa

    Uh

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Which area?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well what does it tie into? Someone's yard

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    or originally on this drawing that was not going

    to

    be a paved roadway. That's something that's we've added recently. So that would have just been a hardened emergency access, so that's why it's not shown on there as a roadway itself.

    Kathryn Starkey

    But what's emergency access to what if it's not touching the road? That's what I'm trying to do.

    Mike Carballa

    There would likely be like a stabilized weight if for the fire rescue to get onto the road to be able to to service the neighborhood. I I don't think they envisioned it being paved, but in this particular case, as Clark mentioned, they they would they would do the one the the single lane and of course then to to widen or not to widen would just be a a a simple matter of is the property available because it's not likely we would be able to condemn for something like that.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So let me ask, is that road being used now by the neighbors that are right there?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Uh yes, I believe so. Yeah. There's like three or four people that use it.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So you'd have to make it the one way, but it'd be above Those

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    neighbors. Right. It would just connect to us just above them. That's right. Alassi. Ooh. And again. I you know, I think all we're doing is adding more connectivity. This is just so the board understands and I I get that the board is very uh attuned to this issue of interconnectivity, but we're t what we're talking about here is far in excess in my opinion of what the code requires. I mean we're going way beyond what the code requires and historically what we've

    asked people to do. I mean, we're turning the site into Swiss cheese but we're you know, I'm trying to do it in a way that I can actually deliver on it and I'm not being uh untruthful with the folks that we've spoken with in the community before.

    Jack MarianoChair

    All right, let's stop for now and let's go to public comment.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Okay. Thank you.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Is there any from the public anyone from the public here to speak to this item?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Okay.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Anybody on

    Kathryn Starkey

    one thing? Uh Mr. Chairman I have no one on WebEx for this item.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    I did not swear in because I didn't think I was gonna talk. Clinton win.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Is anyone else gonna speak that didn't get sworn in?

    Okay.

    Kathryn Starkey

    You ready? Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you, God. So what we got. Thank you.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    Clinton Wynn [address removed]. Um I probably know these roads better than any of y'all. So the family's own the property since fifty-three. Um Fairwinds Road, and this is where I'm coming to you guys is a as a team. Fairwinds Road, and I'm not against the development. So just understand that. I'm not happy with the growth. But I'm not gonna push back. Fairwinds Road needs infrastructure. Colony needs infrastructure. Bottom line first. When you guys had

    that map up there, the cul de sac, the two lots to the south of Cal-de-Sac are abandoned. Yeah,

    Kathryn Starkey

    I'm

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    looking at it.

    Kathryn Starkey

    There's nothing on it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    I'm sorry?

    Kathryn Starkey

    There's nothing on it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    Well to south yeah, south of the call is like they just tore down a trailer a year ago that was abandoned. I'm not sure what happened. Just to the west of Sheik's. So you have two lots. I tried to buy the one, but somebody else got it in the auction. Just south of the call of the sack. Grassy fields.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Mm-hmm.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    That could bring that straight down if you guys would work as a county, but please don't do it if you can't even strike fair winds. I've been asking for years. We still don't have lights at Fair I know sound like a broken record. Fairwinds in colony. The kids are out there at the school bus in the dark. And she's just not fair. We've been paying taxes since fifty three. Now I'm not that old, but it was my grandparents. And now I've been continuing after my father passed. So um Meadow Oaks, I work a lot with the Homeowners Association.

    There's no stripes there between the clubhouse And Win Ranch, really, because they've all faded out. We've been asking. So again, I'm just showing you where the the ball is being dropped. And if you're going to bring in this cool development to help.

    Great.

    From Sheik's Road in the eighties, I was going back to some surveys with Clark. I've given up fifteen feet of my entire west boundary between the property they're proposing. So I have fifteen feet that I can't even use. So why isn't that being accessed? Now that's above the lots that the people have. Okay. I did go talk to some people on Sheiks, the one guy's In Europe. He doesn't know what he wants to do. He's just renting his house. He's out. He actually bought the property from Carl

    Thomas. Who the builder bought. So We can do a field trip out there. I think you guys should put on your boots and go out there and walk around and see the area. I mean I'm supportive, but we have to put the infrastructure in the area. Any questions for me?

    Jack MarianoChair

    Uh I'll I'm gonna ask you a question. Do you so you agree with the connectivity to fair ones?

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    If you fix up colony and fair winds, because we just got a stripe at the stop sign at colony and fair winds, we didn't have that.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Yeah, the stripes stri striping's easy. The colony we're working on the infrastructure for to get getting that done as well.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    But I'm sure the people it should and and again when Meadow Oaks was developed, because we sold part of our property for Meadow Oaks. Going through Sugar Creek Boulevard, people cut through there. They were using our property before I got it back in 2015, cutting through to Hudson Avenue, and I locked it down. So you're gonna have people going out to Hudson Avenue through Meadow Oaks, Fair Winds, and then you got people cutting through to Sugar Creek. and you see the traffic stop at Hayes Road in 52 at 7 in the morning. I don't know if you see it, it backs up to With Lakucci. So you're bringing all this development in, that's

    fine, but we have no turn lanes at Colony in 52, where the gas station is in the uh Dollar General. Um no sidewalks. We still have people with missing limbs riding their wheelchair scooters down the middle of the lanes with no sidewalks. Unacceptable to me. Fair Winds hasn't had the grass cut back. The lane's too narrow. Okay. But again if you I mean I'm not knocking these guys. I'm s what I can't stop it, right? I want to just hold on to my house. But the point I'm making is you've

    got to put in some investment in the fairwinds and colony if you even think about doing this.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay.

    Unidentified speakerVoice D

    Thank you.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Anyone else for public comment? All right. And there's no one on WebEx?

    Kathryn Starkey

    No one is on WebEx.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay. So we'll close to public comment. So Some good points brought up Um we do need to put the infrastructure in place if it's gonna happen. I think the interconnectivity is very important. And I think this this almost takes me back to the Dent Nav project that we're gonna look at. Well we kinda looked at the right-of-way. If we're going to do it and we're going to impact the area up there, let's at least put the money that's going to be generated back into the area. And Not only do do I think we need to do the colony road Yeah. I think the turn lane down on fifty two

    is gonna be important, the striping. Um Maybe get some lights in there too. Um

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well

    Jack MarianoChair

    the street lights is a very good thing. i it's h I mean I I

    Kathryn Starkey

    We don't have 'em on Trinity. We don't on Starkey. If I may I'll be right back, I'm not sure.

    Jack MarianoChair

    At least at the bus stop.

    Mike Carballa

    On on the street lights since it is a local road, we do have individual streetlight districts which we run as little mini M S B Us, if you will. Okay. And literally they they cost maybe fifty to a hundred dollars a year. In order to run and operate if that's something that community is interested in. So

    Jack MarianoChair

    that

    Mike Carballa

    option is there.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Um

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Commissioner Mariano, if if I might just for a sec. Uh I did speak with my client and we can bring that road and and stub out on the end of the cul-de-sac so the road could continue straight through there the way that you're talking about. We can do that. So, you know, but what I'm hearing you say or suggest and we've got, you know, two new members of of the board here and and Commissioner Bradford's not present, but um just for their benefit on another project in this area,

    Commissioner Weightman, we segregated the mobility fees from the project for certain improvements in the area. Um and it created a nice little individual pot of money to address things like that. And I'm I assume that's what Commissioner Mariano maybe has in mind here.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Yeah, I th as we talked earlier, I think that approach worked for that area. At least it made it better. I I voted against the project, I believe, uh just because I just didn't think it was the right spot. But I I appreciated what you did. coming up with the idea to use the impact fee for the area. Mr. Goldstein.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Commissioner Oakley though that This is all one mobility fee area and I know there's other roads in this area that are important to you. For example Hicks Road, there's other Roads in the area that we're going to do. mobility fees would be used to fund and so when you Say the mobility fees from this M P U D are only going to go towards colony or Maybe fair winds that does impact your ability to do other roads in the area. And my recollection is with the other MPUD, it was a

    much bigger area The the mobility fees were earmarked for. It wasn't just one particular roadway. So I I I'm just concerned about when we go to fund a road like Hicks or other roads that are important to you and that are important to the board, that's gonna be adversely impacted when you're saying The mobility fees have to go to a road like colony.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So if you could put the screen back up to show the developments in the area, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a point with you to kinda show you why the concern's there.

    Mike Carballa

    While we're waiting for that, I would I I would echo David's sentiment. I would urge caution on that because our impact fee set up on zones. And in those zones we have We have projects, and those projects are prioritized, and they are large dollar projects. Smaller projects such as this may not generate enough revenue to do some of the improvements that you may want to see, and in which case it it may not work out. So scale is important. Priorities are important. And again, I would just urge caution if if we're looking to redo

    how we do our mobility fee districts.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I appreciate that. But his here's what his here's what can happen to an area. So we've had this route study done since 2001. Okay. 2001, the road study is done. Here's where we need to go. We know we want to connect SIF 52 to Hudson Avenue. It's been all those years and we haven't done it yet. In the interim, Meadow Oakes Lakeside. Uh probably some work in the w word of life over there. Plantation oaks, some development there, Sugar Creek, development there,

    and this road did never get built. Just like I had the concern up in Denton Avenue we had the project coming in, nothing's going to get done. It gets siphoned away to other areas. This is an area that it's not a super expensive roadway. to do, but it's critical to the infrastructure for the inter interconnectivity. And if we don't do it now, Is it going to be another twenty years before we try to go do it? Because something else took priority? I mean I had Zimmerman sitting for so long, ranch road, sidewalks never get done. Because it just wasn't a big focus because other things took

    precedence. But if I have got a development coming in that is going to impact this area, I'm going to have a lot of the I can justify to the people in the area that look, the development's coming in, but the impact fee The growth that's impacting you is going to pay its way to fix the infrastructure because of what they are coming into. If I don't designate it or try to get it designated, I am afraid we'll get more of the same and this thing never gets built out. Literally, peach tree never should have got done. That should have been focused over here. It should have been brought to the board. Instead just

    one day, Peachtree's paved. So as a board member, as a district commissioner, I'm saying to fix this neighborhood, to get this done, where the road project has been sitting Is a road study done for how many years? It it I can I can I can go with the development but it's gotta be Cohesive to what's going on in the neighborhood. So that's why I'm asking for it again like I did before. And I'll vote for this one if we can get that done.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Well of course. This is a board disc discretionary issue. I think really we what the board does with our mobility fees, that's we I don't believe that we have any objection to doing that. I mean it's really it's a it's a board decision as to whether we would segregate the fees for this one.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Um someone can someone tell me w w what's the right-of-way. So their road is not their yellow line is not touching fifty two. What's going on up there? Did you see that? Well it's is fifty two get is that hump getting straight in Oh oh Hudson, I'm sorry, yeah Hudson. What's going on up there? Is Hudson gonna be straightened out? Is is there some issue why your your line doesn't Go along the Hudson Avenue? Avenue?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I think the road was the reason why it's not following our boundary is the road was moved over time. It went up.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Really?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Mm-hmm. Might have been for um That was for the drainage or bridge there.

    Seth Weightman

    Okay. Yeah.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Mr. Chairman

    Seth Weightman

    Mariano.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Commissioner Weightman, sorry.

    Seth Weightman

    Thank you, Chairman. Clark for Bidda. You're a history buff. Mm-hmm.

    Unidentified speakerVoice F

    There's so many by least.

    Seth Weightman

    So uh question about Hudson Ave. So we look at these projects and they're moving east to west. Long Uds and Ave. The Hudson Abbs kinda reminds me of how State Road fifty two used to be. Right. Straight. These projects keep coming along. W what are we looking at if there's a rural corridor to the north? What opportunity, you know, for change there potentially. And as we keep moving along west. Um

    I think Hudson Ave will probably use it's it's used a lot if you drive it. There's some rough patches along the way just because of, you know. heavy traffic and some of the commercial traffic along along there.

    Do we need to start taking kind of a a uh a different look at it. Is is it, you know, soon to be the The first one. Another sibling to fifty two as an as an east west quarter. I know everybody's talking about north and south, but Um

    Orlando Borraz

    I don't well

    Seth Weightman

    get traveled even more and it does bottleneck at Hays and Well in in Hudson Ave. I I take it to work and You know, Hicks is Hicks moves a little bit more smoothly than the than the you know, going eastbound.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Well the i the the area in general in in Hudson obviously it's a collector road and has been For many years, and that the stretch between we are and where we are to Hayes from a capacity perspective is in good shape. But I think what you're observing, and Commissioner Mariano is well aware, we've also got this employment node over by our facility and all the other stuff that's going on off a soft wind. And so over time I envision Hudson

    becoming a lot of the same. becoming a much more significant road. It may be four laned one day and be a more significant east west road. Right now it's not needed. The traffic studies show you if we took a growth rate that was like four times greater than what we normally use, there's still capacity there. But uh it's you know, as you see these projects building out and you see our employment on the eastern end of it over by Shady Hill Shady Hills Road. this is becoming s a significant area uh for a

    a bunch of reasons. And it's all working together. That's the good news is there's gonna be employment opportunities in close proximity here, but it's not gonna be a sleepy, um, you know, rural feeling road over time.

    Jack MarianoChair

    These networks are in here for where you see Lakeside, Meadow Oaks, et cetera, all those people if they're gonna go out to Hudson Avenue

    Yeah. They get to fifty two. When you get all this development that from fifty two connecting Hudson Avenue, it's such a amount of traffic that could be so much better spilled up. Because otherwise you've got to go all the way down to Hicks or Hicks or Hicks. Hicks, yeah, go go down Hicks Road that way, the other way. And you get the school down there. And when the school's crowded? Um It's it's it's it's a logjam. I mean j even right now with the with the new busing thing was going on, literally literally it was a forty-five minute drive. from

    Hicks Road to get to Hudson School in in the property.

    Seth Weightman

    So

    I understand your point and I appreciate your Your point on these interior roads here and and to Mr. Hobby and his client's point. To have Make a decision on this project. With a caveat that these the roadways that you you refer to get built kinda

    don't really work. But would we be if if if we were to approve this project as is Am I hearing that that we can all but guarantee funding in in in and these roads be be dealt with in an expeditious manner? Is that kind of what I'm hearing? I guess that's County

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Attorney. If I might, because I worked on the other one. I think what we're we're proposing or Commissioner Mariano is proposing, and I'm saying we don't object to, is that if you you did segregate the funds for from this project for these various projects and the two that Commissioner Mariano was talking about were fair winds improvements. and Colony Road. And it may be that you want to uh just throwing this out there to David's point about how

    we did the other one, we looked at a larger area. Maybe we look at the area from fifty two to Hudson. with colony being the boundary on the west side and go over to Hayes, And then at least you're looking at a larger area, but with understanding colony and fairwinds are really the focus points. then that gives the boards at least segregated funds for this area for whatever the priorities are.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Well with I I don't want to necessarily do that because I don't think we're gonna need all the money that we're gonna collect from these funds from from this development to pay for it. So what we don't use can stick back right back in the fund and use it in the general area. As long as I take care of the issue that this is gonna create.

    I'm I'm good with that because that will take care of that. And the excess money then can go back into the regular you know regular zone.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    So I understand the colony road extension. I'm not sure what you're asking to be done With mobility fees on ha on fairwinds.

    Mike Carballa

    I if I may, what what I'm hearing is you'd like a certain amount of money, whatever the cost to extend Colony Road would be. would be segregated from those mobility fees with the balance returned to the fund. What you're what you're de facto doing is prioritizing Colony Road. So if if that's something that this board wants to do. I mean we we certainly can look at that. Now based on the alignment, I don't even think we own the property.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well I do see that we have an easement there. Or we have something On from Hudson South on Colony Road, it says we have it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I'm looking at it. You have an a small easement area, but you're going to need to acquire right away, as best we can tell, from six or seven property owners, including a longer stretch through one property owner that uh butts Hudson Avenue to meet the alignment that you're talking about. Sackelson?

    Kathryn Starkey

    Sackleson.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Starts at Hudson Avenue and then it it comes in at a curve.

    Kathryn Starkey

    So is and so that was going to be my question. Is that that pond That's on your western border? Is that What is that? Is that a

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    class? The road's not going to go through the board already adopted a route study that has the road going to the west of that. That's what the graphic was showing you earlier. So

    Kathryn Starkey

    that's what that was.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    That's what that's the approved route study for the road. So the only real question and and again, this is really y'all's decision is whether the board wants to prioritize the use of the funds mobility fees. from this project for that project and some undetermined improvements on fairwinds.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Can I ask a question, Mr. Chairman Mariano? Clark, do you know what your estimated mobility fees are from this project?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Um I think we have just over three hundred units and you know i I think we're in the Middle district, so I'm gonna say around two point five, two point eight million. It's just I was just doing that on my phone and I think that's a guess.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Does anybody know the estimated cost of the Colony Road extension when you include right of way acquisition?

    Mike Carballa

    We'd have to build a quick project. I don't think we could do that on the fly. Accurately anyway.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Does anybody know the distance?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I haven't seen it. I haven't looked at it on on our end.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I think someone could draw up map pages pretty quick and figure it out.

    Kathryn Starkey

    It says it's egg, but I can't tell what kind of egg it is.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    My my guess would be that that's not gonna be sufficient to acquire the right-of-way and build the entirety of the road. That's just a guess. I'm not sure.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    That would be my prediction too, Clark. Just based

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    on what I've done.

    But again, I think that's a good one. You know, it the board can help set the priorities if it wants to.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    But I guess that kinda goes to the point I was making earlier, which is if the money is insufficient, now you've locked it up. for a road that will never get built or won't can't be built. Don't

    Kathryn Starkey

    say that.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Okay. Or that will can't be built built without additional funds from somewhere else.

    Kathryn Starkey

    We need more money.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    It's under transportation.

    And I guess the point I was trying to make, Commissioner Oakley I know we have a large industrial park we're trying to develop infrastructure for around Hicks Road and I don't know if we'll need these mobility fee funds to help support That industrial park. And so Trying to say this for your benefit too.

    I think your priority would probably be a little bit more than a little bit. Finding the infrastructure for that industrial park versus Finding a road for a residential subdivision. That that's my that's my fear is I want to make sure you've got funds to support the industrial park. I understand.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Quarter of a mile.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Yeah, it's probably

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well that's as a crow flies, but it's not as

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    crowded. It's probably I'm guessing a third of a mile with a curvature, would be my guess. You've got to get all the way down to where the nine degree turn is.

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Yes.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    How you how you gonna approve this and then Leave that open where you don't have those funds when you need them for that industrial part.

    I mean, I think that's a good thing

    What happens normally on on roads like this they're taken care of by the developer?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Not this kind of road. But I I think the issue is this has been a plain county, it's off site for us, but the issue is it just no money's ever been put in it for the CIP. How how long was it?

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    I'd hate to see us lock that lock that money down and then Can't do this right and you can't use it somewhere else, so

    Mike Carballa

    Based on the length, I would say that's probably about half of what we would need. Not even counting land costs at this point in time.

    Kathryn Starkey

    To to acquire and build?

    Mike Carballa

    Yeah, you're probably n north of five, south of ten. All in.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    There's no way you are to lock this up to where you can't use that money.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Yeah. I mean I think

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    We just have to come up with the

    Kathryn Starkey

    I think we have to somewhere p make sure that it's in our in our plans and work our way towards it, Jack, but I think you'd do yourself. a dys district disservice if you tried to lock it up. For now.

    But we have to pay attention to that stuff.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Well regardless of that issue, I just again wanted to confirm We will move that arrow to have a better alignment on the southerly east-west road and my client confirmed that if it's the board's pleasure, we will make a stub out in the middle of the cul-de-sac on the southern end so that if you all want to make a connection there later, you can do that and As I said before, we will pave the emergency access

    area so that emergency vehicles can get in there via a paved travel lane which also can be used for uh golf carts, bike, and pad. I think those are all good improvements. And whether how how the board wants to handle the funding of this other road, that's really within the board's purview.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Can I ask you? Brad a question about your last suggestion. Brad, how does that work if it's a paved Road.

    How do you allow golf courts on it without

    So you can put ballers up that are only wide enough for a golf court to get through but not a car?

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    Um I mean there's some ways that we can make that happen to restrict that.

    Kathryn Starkey

    We have to or they have to? They do.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I'm I'm gonna say if we are not gonna get Colony Road done.

    Then we need their

    in a f in a regular connection to to be down on fairwinds. connection. I think it needs to be full connection. So whether it be the two empty lots or however we want to do it. Um

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    So that puts traffic and trips onto fairwinds that it wasn't that weren't intended there. So there wouldn't really be improvements on fairwinds that would be necessary all the way to colony.

    Kathryn Starkey

    We'll stripe it and make it the best we can. Well

    Unidentified speakerVoice C

    width, I believe also there are some other uh we would need to look at it as a substandard road, see what the situation is, but It wasn't it wasn't con considered for this particular situation because it was an emergency access. Um But if that's gonna be a full access, then we need to consider that.

    Jack MarianoChair

    All right, so let's look at from the bottom of their property.

    That runs up

    What is the final? Can you shift over, Clark? And this is probably for the engineer. The single family detached homes to the right. And give us the right of way so cl so colony can go straight up at least a little bit below

    Um The pond that's up there.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Commissioner, the the your route study has it only clips our very corner.

    Jack MarianoChair

    I understand, but I'm also told that this ten million dollar road won't get built unless we find a better way. So if we can move your stuff to the side, Where it wouldn't cost you any lots, even if you

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    project wouldn't be feasible with it. I mean, I we would literally probably lose forty or fifty lots. I mean we we couldn't do it. And again, you have an approved route

    Kathryn Starkey

    Wait.

    Are you are are you you s are you talking about the cul-de-sac? Sorry, I was looking at

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    some culture.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Oh.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Which I mean that literally would lose like a bunch of

    Kathryn Starkey

    it.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    That's that's what we're trying to do is provide the connection.

    Jack MarianoChair

    But they're connected to a world that's not a good thing. Built.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I mean Colony Road is the M.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Clark, what if the connection were only What if you didn't build the expensive part of the road that goes up and connected What if you only build the connection To the south.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Yeah, to where the where it's there.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    I don't know what that distance is, but it's uh

    Kathryn Starkey

    the Sharon Street.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    In other words, if you had a connection to existing colony to the south.

    Yeah,

    Kathryn Starkey

    right there. I'm

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    not sure.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Right there, where it makes the turn.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Foxfire. Foxy.

    Mike Carballa

    You're basically saying e extend colony

    I just see one

    I think he's talking about from Foxfire to the southwesternmost corner of his property.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    No, it's there's like ten or or fifteen feet. It's like old plaited Dirt road. So even that would require a right-of-way acquisition is what you're saying.

    Well but it were that easy. And the other thing I you know I I discussed with Commissioner Mariano, we have no problem giving a public access easement from where our point of connection is through the project. So if anybody if and when there's a connection made there It's not like we're stopping people from coming through the site. That's not the intent.

    I just, you know, can't build uh somebody else's ten million dollar off site road.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Clark, would you mind if we continue this thirty days, take a better look at it? I mean I want to try to make it happen, but at the same time I I can't bury the the traffic for these people without trying to find the best way possible.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Sorry. Anyone I can't hear coming from is asking if we can do it for three K to look at.

    Kathryn Starkey

    It doesn't even it looks like colony. is owned by the Naturist Religious Society. How

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    can that be? Commissioner Weightman is I don't know maybe how I'm gonna resolve the county's you know, Vision Road construction within ten ten days. I again I don't mind stubbing out the stuff we talked about and building one travel lane and having it open up if the county can acquire more right away. I don't have any objection to that. But I don't think that's gonna solve, you know, any long term aspirations for Colony Road. And there are no

    capacity issues. On Hudson, and we're meeting all the other interconnection requirements. So we're meeting the code requirements. I just I don't think I'm gonna be able to find a a conclusion on coming up with ten million bucks for Colony Road.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Maybe another way to build it. Commissioner Weightman.

    Seth Weightman

    The perfect scenario of when something isn't necessarily ready to be built on because the county hasn't planned appropriately per se. I think what Chairman Mariano is. If it gives the county Thirty more days so we can We as a county can figure out and give Ms. Carbala, whoever and his team time to really Think about the connection here. We're adding this is exactly what folks that we see every day and publics and wherever else. You

    allowed a project to come in and the infrastructure wasn't ready. And that's kind of what we're up against here. We're not saying no to the project, but I think what the Chairman's asking is. I'm always

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    predisposed when a commissioner asks to for a continuance that we grant it. And I will Well I'm going to agree to it. But what I am going to say in this particular circumstance is

    There's we're not required to do anything further for this project and it meets all the code requirements. requirements and it's providing as much or more than all of the projects in the area.

    Okay.

    again, we worked out the other one. I had a little bit more time to work it out and you know I'll I'll try to work it out here. Commissioner Oakley. Yeah, you have a question for me.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Um,

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I didn't know if he had a he was h he was holding up the hand looking at me. I didn't know if he was trying to ask me qu a question.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Commissioner Oakley.

    I mean we come out of our budget to do this or Or where do we get those funds?

    Mike Carballa

    So if we were to do this type of project under the Engineering Services Capital Program, it would come from a combination of mobility fees, TIFF fees. Usually your TIFF subsidizes the mobility fee discounts that we that we give to encourage development. So it would it would come from those two primary sources and then the smattering of other sources depending on whatever you know types of amenities or things that we would put in. Sometimes penny funds. It just depends on on the individual.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    This road important that we look at doing that without stopping this project from just going forward?

    Mike Carballa

    I think you have to look at it in the totality of your program and then you prioritize where you want to spend your money.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Well and and we don't have that prioritization here to make that kind of decision.

    Mike Carballa

    Yeah, I mean no, obviously it's not on the priority list right now, I can tell you that.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Well Commissioner if if I continue for thirty days, that will allow me to work with your staff to get a better idea of these costs, what the project may generate in addition to mobility fees, I'll get a f a better answer on that, what the increase in the TIFF increment might be, and we can get a better sense of these things and then hopefully can we can find some common ground with the board on it.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Mr. Wynn might

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    help us with some of the neighbors we need. And

    Jack MarianoChair

    we can certainly refine those costs.

    At least we we can at least carry the conversation from here. I want to try to help the project come in, but at the same time I want to protect the neighborhood and protect our infrastructure.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Can I I just check my calendar to make sure I understand uh what's on the calendar because we've got a bunch of projects coming up. So if it's continued for thirty days, that would put us At the May

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    May twenty three. Is that a meeting or not?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Is it May twenty three? I thought

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    we heard some

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    some somebody say May

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    twenty third was one

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    of our meetings. I don't know. So Mr. Chairman question. Yes, please. Is it being continued to primarily to look at colony or did you want staff and the applicant to look at

    south of their project to connect to Fairwind.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So everything we've talked about, let's go take a look. If we've got a better suggestion, better idea that comes up.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    I kind of agree with Commissioner Starkey, that's probably a much cheaper

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    That's helpful to me, David, because maybe I'll have my client go try to talk to the people out there and see if we can somehow work something out. I mean again. Let's go.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Right. So let's just make this I'm going to make this the best project we can. So let's go work together and I'll work with you too to go for the appreciate

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    it. May twenty third uh uh correct date?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    That confirmed it. Okay.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Oh yeah, okay.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Yeah.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    I'll make a motion we move this to continue it to May twenty third meeting one thirty.

    Unidentified speakerVoice E

    Okay.

    Jack MarianoChair

    All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr. Abe, thank you and to the folks at Taylor Morrison, thanks for working with us. Thank you. Okay. We'll go to commissioner items.

  3. 3
    Board of County CommissionersP60Public hearingContinued
    Approved minutes

    Approved to continue the item to the June 20, 2023 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey.

    Open this item →
    2m
    Jack MarianoChair

    This is transmittal, so it's it's a real deal. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passed 4-0. Uh P sixty.

    Ed Zodian

    Continue.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Sixty was advertised in the Tampa Bay Times on March first and May third, twenty twenty three.

    Ron OakleyVice Chair

    Mr. Chairman M item P sixty is a zoning amendment. In the name of Paul Palm Wind, M P U D Master Planning United Development. By Taylor Morrison of Florida Incorporated. Resoning requests from an AR agricultural residential district and AC Agricultural District to an MPUD Master Plan United Development District to allow a maximum of 319 single-family detached units on approximately 116.75 acres. As of today, we've received a request for continuance on this item to the, I believe, June

    20th. Board of County Commissioners meeting here in Newport Ritchie at 130. The applicant is here to speak to the item.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay. And you wanted to continue it? Uh it wasn't advertised for continuance, we're gonna need to ask for public comment.

    Unidentified speakerVoice G

    So yes, if if somebody is here that wishes to speak that cannot attend on June Twentieth. Um Now would be their opportunity to speak. Otherwise if they speak, they can't speak on the twentieth.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So does anyone here to speak?

    Okay. And there's no one on WebEx?

    Unidentified speakerVoice H

    There is

    not.

    Jack MarianoChair

    That was to the board.

    Seth Weightman

    Move move. Second. Or to continue to

    Jack MarianoChair

    move to continue

    to June twenty one thirty.

    Okay, move to continue. June twenty and all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

  4. 4
    Board of County CommissionersP54Public hearingApproved

    Zoning Amendment (Regular) – … Maximum of 319 Single- family Family Detached Units on Approximately 116.75 Acres

    Approved minutes

    Approved Staff’s recommendation by a roll call vote.

    Open this item →
    7m
    Kathryn Starkey

    Item P fifty four was published.

    Hold on. In the Tampa Bay Times on March first, twenty twenty three, May third, twenty twenty three, and June seventh, twenty twenty three.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay. So on this item this was continued Um to this date. We had closed public comment and we had a request in for the applicant to try to get the land to connect down to the South. And they have done that at this point. Mr. Attor County Attorney, do we have to have public comment again or should we just hear from the applicant

    Unidentified speakerVoice G

    at this

    Jack MarianoChair

    point?

    Unidentified speakerVoice G

    You've closed public comment and the app and the applicant i has addressed uh or staff and the applicant have um I'm cur are coming back with something to address your concerns. So n it it would be as if you would You had added another stipulation during that hearing in April. Okay. So no, you do not necess you can take public comment, but you do not need to take public comment.

    Jack MarianoChair

    All right, so let's hear from staff and then we'll hear from the applicant.

    Orlando Borraz

    Sure. Um good afternoon. This is Orlando Borraz, um Current Planning. And I'll be presenting um Palm Wing and PewDie Uh it's going to be PDD um seventy six thirty three. So the proposal is going to be a zoning amendment um rezoning from ARAC, which is going to be agricultural and agricultural residential, to an MPUD master plan unit development, allowing a maximum

    Unidentified speaker

    of three hundred and nineteen. So you've done the presentation in April. Y you really only need to tell the board what's changed. Okay, perfect.

    So

    Orlando Borraz

    this is a context map. As you can see, there's going to be two access points going to be interconnecting to Hudson Avenue to the north. And then going to the south. Previously there was no interconnection only and emergency access. Now you're going to see one interconnection to Fairwinds Road and also the emergency access. As to east and west, you're going to see, sorry, the interconnections. And you're going to see Colony Road going through the borderline of the west side of the property. Uh-huh. You're going to see also

    like dots. That's going to be Division Road, Colony Road. It's going to be surrounding the wetland that you can see in the picture. And then Fairwinds Road is going to be interconnecting to Colony Road. And then Colony Road is going to be interconnecting to um I believe it's going to be Fox Drive, Fox Fire Drive, and later to Peace Three, and then Peace Three is also going to interconnect to Hudson Avenue, which is going to address the concerns previously brought by the board. In April.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Now the other the the major connection though that the board was concerned was the north-south to Fairwinds Drive. Yeah. Can you address that?

    Orlando Borraz

    Yeah. It's going to be um

    Right over here. And then right next to this interconnection, you're going to see the previously emergency access being proposed by the applicant.

    Jack MarianoChair

    So what would that what would that connection look like? Two lane two lanes, sidewalk trail, golf car trail, what?

    Orlando Borraz

    So the interconnection in question here is going to be a functional access um for the whole property. So basically everything is going to come from Hudson Avenue all the way south to Fairwinds Road and then you're going to have from west to east also roads are going to be interconnected.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    don't need it. Uh Clark Hobby Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brest Street, 10th Florida have been sworn. It's two eleven-foot travel lanes with five-foot sidewalks on either side. So that's the fully the full access you requested. We went out and it took us about two months to get under contract with the property owner to the south. There's a new condition and changes to the MPUD master plan that require that full connection now.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Um question.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Commissioner Starkey go

    Kathryn Starkey

    ahead. Um so the emergency exit Exit I'm not sure you need that.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    We probably we

    Kathryn Starkey

    may not even

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    build it. We just left it as is because we had already gone under contract for that property. So

    Kathryn Starkey

    But you can use it for something else for the neighborhood?

    Well Well if if the other one just has five foot sidewalks you could Put my favorite.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Okay, but it's it it's uh if you had seen the site, uh I'm not sure that's uh be a good idea. Okay. But we'll we'll see. We're gonna evaluate that later.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Okay. I just don't think they there shouldn't be a requirement to have That emergency It it's up to them, but they that requirement shouldn't be there if they have the other ones. I understand. Yeah.

    Jack MarianoChair

    There's n there's again there's no need for it, so if you don't want to do it as far as I'm concerned as well, does it need to be done? If you need to change that, we can. But I would like to see, as we talked about with the golf course community there, may there may be some golfers there, uh I would like to see at least on one side at least an eight foot path where a car can drive down.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    I don't think we can meet the code requirements with this spacing. I mean we have agreed with staff that this is the cross section. We don't have any more area to do that.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Okay. If you don't have the room, don't have the room. But I if you can if you can make it happen like that.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    But it's gonna cost us in excess of five hundred thousand dollars to provide this interconnect, just so the board knows. And we already met the code.

    Kathryn Starkey

    Mm-hmm. May may I ask another question? Mr. Starkey. Uh and sorry, it's been a while since I've met with you guys, so um I don't remember what the plan is for this development.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    It's it's single family detached. Forty foot lots?

    Kathryn Starkey

    I think

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    it has some, but I d I mean there are not a large percentage of 40s in there.

    Kathryn Starkey

    And did we agree to architectural restrictions?

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Yes, it had the stuff from last year. It's got two uh cross interconnections in addition to this one with our neighbors.

    Kathryn Starkey

    No, no, I'm concerned about the aesthetic appearance of the easy.

    We added the architectural stuff. And landscape. Yes.

    Trees. Yeah.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Everybody the only the only issue I think the county attorney would agree the only issue before was you all wanted this full access to fairwinds. We spent a lot of time and effort and we've provided it.

    Jack MarianoChair

    And I think it's a big fluff.

    Uh that interconnection is big, especially if someone plays golf that took it down there now they can they can go straight down. They could think they could work their way in the on the path or just even the road, which would be I'm sure a low low thing. Uh I'm thankful Tick Taylor Morrison went out and did this to get it done, and thank you for your cooperation with it too. Thank you.

    Unidentified speakerVoice B

    Appreciate

    Jack MarianoChair

    it. Put a motion, second.

    Kathryn Starkey

    District one, Commissioner Oakley.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Aye.

    Kathryn Starkey

    District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford. Aye. District five Chairman Mariano.

    Jack MarianoChair

    Aye. Item number P fifty five.