PDE-25-0103

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 92% of 501 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 4 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1. 1Feb 20, 2025
   Planning CommissionR2Consent agendaNo outcome in the minutes

   An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code; Section 503 A-C Agricultural District; Section 504 AC-1 Agricultural District; Section 505 A-R Agricultural-Residential District; Section 506 AR-1 Agricultural-Residential District; Section 507 AR-5 Agricultural-Residential District; Section 509 E-R Estate Residential District; Section 510 ER-2 Estate Residential District; Section 512 R-1MH Single-Family/Mobile Home District; Section 514 R-1 Rural Density Residential District; Section 515 R-2 Low Density Residential District; … District; Section 530.3 Construction Of of Accessory Buildings And and Structures; Creating New Section … And An Effective Date.

   Open this item →No recording
2. 2Mar 11, 2025
   Board of County CommissionersP36Public hearingNo action

   Approved minutes

   No action was taken as this was the first public hearing. The adoption hearing was scheduled for March 25, 2025 at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 10:41
   ▶ 10:4149m

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   10:41P thirty six, we have approved publication of the hearing of this matter in the February 5th, 2025 edition of the TAF debate title.

   Nectarios Pittos

   10:51Item P 36 is PDE 250103. I will read the name of the ordinance and then there will be a presentation for the record. In ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners, amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Section 503 AC Agricultural District, Section 504 AC1 Agricultural District, Section 505 AR Agricultural Residential Districts. Section 506 AR1 Agricultural Residential District Section 507 AR5 Agricultural

   11:21Residential District Section 509 ER Estate Residential District Section 510 ER2 Estate Residential District Section 512 R1 MH Single Family Mobile Home District Section 514 R1 Rural Density Residential District Section 515 R2 Low Density District District District Density Residential District Section 516, R3, Medium Density Residential District, Section 517, R4, High Density Residential District, Section 530.3, construction of accessory buildings and

   11:51structures, creating new section 530.24, accessory dwelling units, appendix A definitions, and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability repealer, providing for server ability. Inclusion into the land development code and an effective date. There's no action on this item. This is the first hearing, and I'll turn the mic over to Mr. Patrick Dutter.

   Planning Director

   12:15All right. Uh good afternoon. How's it going? Alright, so uh accessory dwelling units, I think long overdue.

   12:23Oh, I'm sorry, uh Patrick Dutter, uh Planning, Development, Economic Growth. Uh so long overdue, uh accessory dwelling units. So I'm gonna read through um just some of the language that we have written thus far, uh looking for feedback. Again, uh this is not an adoption hearing. We're just looking for feedback at this point in time. So, what is an ADU? An accessory dwelling unit is an ancillary or secondary living unit that has separate kitchen, bathroom, and sleeping area. The ADU may be a separate and detached structure attached to the principal structure, a repurposed existing space within

   12:53the principal structure, new space within the principal structure constructed simultaneously with the principal structure, and apartment over a garage or similar structural form. ADUs may be approved. after the construction of the principal structure or as a simultaneous approval with the construction of principal structure um or or sorry or with the new dwelling unit. ADUs may or may not be deemed affordable housing. So why do we want to permit ADUs? Uh I think there was a board workshop given I think almost a year ago now talking about affordable housing issues and ADUs

   13:23were one of those uh items that were highlighted as something that can help with affordable housing. But ADUs are intended to provide additional housing ancillary to the principal dwelling unit to increase housing opportunities, promote mixed-income neighborhoods, encourage infill development, address the missing middle housing types, address affordable housing needs, and provide housing opportunities to extended families. And then where should we permit ADUs, zoning districts that allow single-family dwelling units, and in those portions of MPUDs that have single-family dwelling units as principal permitted uses? Mm-hmm. So what other local

   13:54governments have ADUs? Uh Hillsborough County, Penellas County, Polk County, Sumter County, a whole lot of other counties permit uh accessory dwelling units. Um and also uh Pasco County. Pasco County has accessory dwelling units in the county. It's just in very specific MPUDs. Like Longleaf is a great example. Longleaf has some ADUs uh in that community. So it's not foreign to us either. Um we actually there was some concern about how many ADUs we would uh See in the county because there were concerns

   14:24that we would see a whole influx of accessory dwelling units coming into the county. We reached out to our neighbors and generally it was for a year between a hundred to two hundred. So it's not an overwhelming amount of accessory dwelling units. Um but you know there are some some decent numbers. Um so that's kind of the numbers our neighbors were looking at. Hillsborough and Penellus obviously more so than Polk and Sumter. So into the dimensional standards. So for the minimum size, we're just going to allow the Florida building code to

   14:54dictate what the minimum size is going to be there. For the maximum, we're proposing currently 900 square feet. For the lot coverage, the ADU cannot exceed the coverage of the current zoning district. For MPUDs that make a distinction between principal structure and accessory structure lock coverages, the lock coverages shall be combined. So oftentimes we have accessory structure is allowed a certain amount of coverage and your principal structure a certain amount. We're just combining that number. Uh for height, uh they shall not exceed the height limitations

   15:24of the current zoning district for which it sits. Setbacks, the ADU shall comply with the applicable principal structure district setbacks. So just to be clear, we have smaller setbacks for accessory structures, but in that these are going to be dwelling units, we wanted them to follow that of the principal units on the site. Um and then we want to provide some flexibility, right? Because not every site is the same and we have some people that may want to exceed the size of our minimum or sorry our maximum of the ADU

   15:55or uh maybe someone wanted to exceed the height for a certain reason. We're gonna provide the ability for someone to apply for a special exception to deviate from those requirements, right? Because if we can't get every scenario. So, some additional development standards for uh ADUs, uh parking. Uh so we're providing uh parking is provided on-site unless on-street parking is permitted in the neighborhood. Um the required number of spaces is going to be persuadant to our current existing code, so nothing crazy there. Uh the

   16:25location of an ADU uh may be within a single-family dwelling or with a separate entrance or a separate structure. So people might want to convert their garage that's part of their existing unit. Assuming they cl uh enclose the garage, they can have it basically attached to their existing unit. In terms of utilities, they may be required to connect to existing water, sewer, electric, and utility providers. And then if it's in an area that uh does not have well is reliant on Well and Septic, they'll need a letter from the Florida Department of Health for

   16:55connecting that additional ADU.

   16:58Uh continued development standards. Uh so these ADUs need to be on fixed foundations. ADUs must be built on a permanent fixed foundation. This means the unit must be on poured footers, stem walls, and poured piers or engineered slabs. So kind of trying to avoid mobile homes and single family districts, essentially. Garage conversions, I already mentioned about the garages. For garage conversions, the garage door shall be removed from it and then the building opening and closed. And then uh just uh a catch all the Florida building code. ADUs must comply with the Florida building code.

   17:31And then some additional standards. You can only have one ADU permitted per lot. So you'll have your principal structure and then you'll have your one accessory dwelling unit, no more than that. Um they are going to uh we're proposing ADUs to be exempt from the comprehensive plan and zoning density calculations, including MPUDs. And we are also this was a Planning Commission request. So the Planning Commission requested that you know there with with the recent flooding that we experienced, especially

   18:01back in October, that there are some areas in the county that maybe the infrastructure in relation to stormwater is not sufficient to support some additional dwelling units, even though they are accessory dwelling units. So we are working with our public work. and stormwater team to generate a map and similar to uh lot coverage and size, if you fell uh within one of the areas that was prone to heavy flooding or or flood issues, um you would also need to apply for a special exception and that would be reviewed by the Planning

   18:31Commission as well.

   18:34And that's where the map's going to be, hopefully, one day. Um some additional standards. Uh vacation rentals. Neither the primary dwelling nor the ADU can be vacation rentals unless 402.5.b is followed. So basically we already have uh some code that talks about vacation rentals that they'll need to follow. Um timing of construction, an ADU may be constructed with or after the construction of the principal dwelling unit. And subdividing land with an ADU. The ADU must remain on the principal dwelling unit's parcel. If a lot split

   19:04occurs, all subdivision regulations and impact and mobility fees shall apply.

   19:11And so that's basically the text that we're specifically adding for ADUs. A lot of the we had to basically change the some of the code sections to permit ADUs in the zoning districts. So some complementary adjustments. We added a definition of accessory dwelling unit to the appendix. We added ADU as a permitted accessory use in all districts that permit single-family homes. We combined principal and accessory lot coverages in those districts where This has not yet been accomplished. Most of them have. And uh we removed caretaker units from industrial establishments because they

   19:41are covered in other Euclidean areas. And then we added a note that accessory buildings and structures shall not be constructed within an easement. And that's it and um open for comments, questions, discussion, um anything you want to talk about.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:55Um Seth then Commissioner Oriana.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   20:01Good to see you Patrick. First time letting your new role up here?

   20:04What's

   20:04that? First time in your new role up here?

   Planning Director

   20:06Uh yes it

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   20:06is.

   20:09So you air the Airbnbs, uh you you you touched on it. We're gonna prohibit prohibit uh accessory dwelling units if if that home is classified as an Airbnb. I use that as an example because in the Land O' Lakes area, you know, going west. We struggle with the Airbnbs within the lakes communities and if these things are permitted there I can see them compounding some of the

   20:39challenges that we have with the visitors and the disruptiveness that they tend to bring some of the areas.

   Planning Director

   20:48Yeah, we're not intending to prohibit. They just need to follow the existing so there's a a separate code section that talks about vacation rentals and a process you need to go through to become a vacation rental, like an Airbnb. Um so we're just pointing out specifically for people that hey this other section of the code exists for vacation rentals and there's a process there that you need to follow.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   21:07So we can if we know So if they're a good actor and they're playing by the rules and they're registered. We can't say probably not a good idea for you to have an Airbnb as long as it's a registered Airbnb, because we know what's going on there, versus it being a true single family home, used as that, not a not a for-profit vacation spot.

   Planning Director

   21:30Uh I'm sorry, could you just re repeat the question more time? Sorry.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   21:34I I understand I'm all for the ADUs, but using them appropriately. If we allow an ADU on a known registered Airbnb site that could compound some of the issues that we have with the Airbnbs and meaning you have more guests more challenges that the the the known I'm kind of looping everyone in together because the only way you can do it. If they're registered, do we allow those properties, if they're registered Airbnb,

   22:04do we allow those properties to have accessory dwellings?

   22:10Due to that challenge and I'm using specifically on our lakes where staff knows what I'm talking about. It's been pretty disruptful to the people who live there full time and they haven't been exactly the best neighbors. Sure. So there's pros and cons with everything that this is one of the challenges that I didn't know if

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   22:30we could share my own.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   22:32Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   22:33Commissioner, I think if that if that's a policy decision for the board, if the board wishes to not allow them, if it's not being used as quote the reason you're adopting ADUs, which is to ha allow a family member to be there, to allow a dish cancel For whatever reason. But if but if if I think you could regul legally take the position that if They're using it as a rental unit as

   23:03an Airbnb that we're not gonna compo legally or illegally, we're not gonna compound the problem.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   23:10Thank

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   23:10you, County Attorney.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   23:11Well Board members you've heard my concerns there, so

   23:17It's

   Planning Director

   23:18up to us. Just just to give some additional background, thank you, Liam. Um so um the the process to have a vacation rental, I think, uh it's a conditional use requirement, so let's come in uh come in for a conditional use. I think in the last year we've only seen I think ten was Liam Devine, planning to

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   23:36build out a country. We have 5,000. Yeah.

   Liam Devine

   23:39So yeah, you have a lot of un unregistered short-term vacation rentals. What they are required to go through a conditional use process. We only have about 10 registered and permitted in the county through through that conditional use process or through a platform. So all those other ones would be a violation of the land development code because they would have not received that conditional use.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:03We do need to start getting those guys registered.

   24:07Yeah.

   Mike Carballa

   24:08Just want to ask looking at that bolt real quick. Um the intent here is it says neither the primary dwelling nor the ADU can be a vacation on blood loss for tube like B is followed. Uh are you making the implicit assumption that at least one is is a residence? So for example, I have a home, I live in the ADU, I vacation own my house, or vice versa. The intent or it's to Commissioner Weightman. point is already compounding it by allowing now two.

   Planning Director

   24:36Yeah I think it was we're just trying to make the point that if either one were going to be a vacation rental that four oh two point five needed to be to follow. So follow

   Mike Carballa

   24:46Awesome.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   24:54Madam Clerk? Uh Commissioner Oakley. I think it's good to just make sure that only one can be. be an ADU. I mean an ADU that's vacation rental.

   25:06Only one of them can be a vacation rental, the other part push and cannot go.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   25:13Okay. All right. Anything else that

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   25:16then incorporate do we have the the the notes, the gentleman who spoke earlier in the morning session public comment? Mobile homes. How how are they treated? Yeah, I mean say you have a mobile

   Planning Director

   25:29home would not

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   25:30on an acre or two or what have you. to Commissioner Mariano's point that he was we were talking about earlier, if we allow a certain footprint and they can have a second home, help them with impact fee or whatever. I mean it's still a home and there's people with sizable properties that can all over this county. I mean are we just going to ex exclude them and not give them an an opp opportunity? Just pig backing on what Commissioner Mariano was bringing up earlier. Um

   26:02I don't think you were here for that, but Jack was way in the right-of-way.

   Planning Director

   26:05So yeah, I I might have missed it. So we're talking about potentially including mobile homes as potential uses?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   26:11Well I would say

   26:14you get larger pieces of property. And if they do have a mobile home You might have let's say it's and you and I'll and I'll talk about your nine hundred square feet which I think is too small as well. But you may have someone who's got a mobile home now and then they want to go build a home, let's say, on the same property. Let's say it's a five acre piece of property. They can meet all the setback requirements. Why wouldn't I want them to go and build an ADU on that property. And I wouldn't want a restriction being smaller.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   26:41Huh? They build the ADU and then as they're building their future home.

   Planning Director

   26:48Um okay. Uh interest so I I'm not quite sure why we wouldn't want that to occur, but go ahead.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   26:54I think some people might be misunderstanding why we're going w I mean the intent of this. This isn't to put Two homes on one lot.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   27:06Maybe not your intent. But I'll go I'll give you the the story and we've talked with staff about this. We're trying to get it where people can actually have a home, someone else can build a home on the same property. The ADU is a good way to go forward. I think for all the smaller lots, et cetera, that you know, s sticking to a Um A tighter unit is is is good. But if I've got someone who's in a five or ten acre piece and they want to bring a family member on the property, And I it can be an A D use l let it be. I don't want to restrict it the

   27:36way the size is set up to be in just nine hundred square feet. I may have someone who's got a twelve hundred square foot trailer, fifteen hundred square foot trailer. They want to build a home. Maybe they're gonna move in the home and then the kids are gonna move into the other one or the grandparents, whatever it may be. I want that flexibility built into this.

   Planning Director

   27:52So a and I think that's why we added some of the language about uh allowing for a special exception to uh and go over the nine hundred?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   27:59But you you you create another step of the government for the special exception. I want to build build it in right now. We'll hit all of them where people have some flexibility with their homes. We got people that have been waiting as we've talked that are trying to do something similar to what we could accommodate here. Being that I've got this legislation here, I want to put that in play now. So when the zoning stuff comes up with the next detail, you can put that in there. But I want to set the What's

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   28:20keeping them from doing that now? to build another house on a five acre.

   28:30Well they're still gonna have to follow the rules of the subdivision. But

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   28:33that's what five I want to give the exception to this here.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   28:37This this prevents them from having to go rent a place potentially for a longer period of time. There's a lot of f flexibility. It allows people to use their property

   Ron Oakley

   28:48Mm

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   28:48more flexibility of use of their property. They s they stay in it and then they build their house and then they have their ADU and kids or whoever move in. That's the that's the whole premise kind of behind this is to give people more rights to their land.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   29:02I I am in a hundred hundred percent uh uh in favor of ADUs. I been out trying to do this for over ten years. We did a development long leaf that has ADUs and every time developers come in to meet with me, I say if you do we're loaded you can easily add an a uh accessory dwelling unit over the garage a and it fits seamlessly into the neighborhood. What I don't wanna see is And it's c probably I mean Some of these districts where they're where you're taking a a lot with a mobile home on it and you had another mobile

   29:32home on it. I mean that's not That's going backwards, not forwards. So Um I don't

   29:43So I I I actually was gonna say I think that I think that we should encourage ADUs. Well done ADUs. And um And I would say I was having this discussion with David Um I don't want there to be impact fee. on certain sizes of ADUs because I want I want people to build 'em. And so I understand if you go to a certain size you're gonna have an impact with the school district. So I would say um A DU's

   30:13m and I'm just guessing at a number seven a one bedroom and David said go by feet, not Bedrooms. So seven hundred and fifty feet maybe? I mean what's how mu how much is the space over garage typically? Or garage.

   30:29Seven hundred fifty feet would cover that pretty well, I think. I think those should be a little bit more than a little bit. If they're on the same water meter and they don't have to have another meter, I don't think should a they should have any impact fee. Um, but when you're talking about taking a mobile home And add another one on it.

   30:48I don't know, I think that's going backwards, not forwards.

   Planning Director

   30:52And and I I n I know I think probably both of you know, but just to state it, right? If if someone has a uh a home and then wants to have a second home on a five acre pro uh property, we do have the mechanism to do that, which is subdividing and platting. Um but I I know that can be also a little bit cumbersome.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   31:10No.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   31:13We have a gentleman who's got a Five acre parcel in Hudson on Connolly Road. I believe it's five acres. Wanted to add another unit in this house and he couldn't. I mean that was like three years ago. price has gone up, et cetera, so we're probably not gonna do it, but I want to give people the flexibility. No, you've got you've got different ways to look at it. Like they said, they o they only want these in single family districts. I think that's wrong.

   31:40had all the A's with a circle on them.

   Planning Director

   31:42Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   31:43Okay, which which now you said single family so you addressed it with with our ordinance. But I want to have people if they're in let's say R four. Make it to where they can be the smaller. If you want. But if they're in a large And and it could be a five acre parcel, could be a ten acre parcel. Let them go figure out what they want to go do. You might have this you know there's many situations. You can have someone who's got let's say a a twelve hundred foot trailer, maybe a twelve hundred foot home, and they want to put another unit on there. And maybe that unit.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:11What do you mean by unit on there? On the house or on the lot?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   32:14On the lot. Okay,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:15you wanna add a cottage, not another house. This is not this is this is not meant to be a second house.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   32:22In your intention it's not meant to be a second house, but I'm telling you from my get-go with a conversation.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:26That's something different than this. I want to

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   32:29incorporate it until we could get the stuff squared away.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:31Well I no I know.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   32:32I mean if if I've got someone who's got a mobile home.

   32:36If I've got someone who's got a mobile home Right. And it's called twelve hundred square feet. Now they want to go build a house in the same lot but keep the mobile home so a family member can move in there. What's wrong with that? Five acalot now. Not not R4. Five recolot. What's wrong with that process?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:55There I I guess there's some areas in your d your neighborhood or your district where they got ten of 'em on there that we don't even care, I guess.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   33:06No, I think we care, but I'm talking about a specific situation which we're gonna address right now with another.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   33:15So for example, Moon Lake area. They're all half acre plus areas. And

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   33:20you're gonna add more of that to that?

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   33:22It would allow them To build They were to get an ADU. It I think it'll leak to to Dim. Bedaring area and it allow them to get their ADU They're staying in that as they're figuring out situation you know, their their situation one. It just gives people the the flexibility to do more with their property.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   33:47I I I think you are opening up a Pandora's box to a slump.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   33:54How if they have to be on a slab. I mean look at all

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   33:58the construction. An ADU is a little cute cottage in the backyard or a apartment over the garage. It's not

   34:08A trailer next to a trailer. I mean

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   34:10it would be but the rules on this state s slab, uh foundation, Florida Building Code, it it says how the structure is supposed to be built.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   34:19Am I a misunderstanding are they not going to be able to do that? It's going to be an infinite door.

   34:25Did I not hear that?

   Planning Director

   34:26Well I I think with our language we are attempting to limit the trailers and and mobile homes um doing site build uh AD. Yes,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   34:34absolutely.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   34:38Okay. Yeah. So then you're comfortable Let's say there's a mobile in the property and someone's gonna build a home or another structure On slab on grade to the conditions that you're okay with that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   34:49No, I I think the mobile

   Planning Director

   34:53And and

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   34:54Let's take some pictures of what those look like.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   34:57I get a I got a five foot acre lot. I've got a mobile home on it, and I want to go build another home that's twenty five hundred, maybe thirty five hundred square feet on the same property. What's wrong with doing that?

   Planning Director

   35:08So I'll I'll just add two one one of the No no

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   35:10I want her to answer.

   Planning Director

   35:11Okay, sorry.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   35:12That's that's not the intent is to have two families Your intent. That that is what an a an ADU is not to families living where one was living, that's something different. An ADU is is m usually a one maximum two bedroom. Let's say you have uh a parent who um need you wanna put a little cottage in the backyard? We had one in my house in Miami. Um And uh

   35:42you need There need a care you need a caregiver for a parent that wants to live on your property, not go into ALF. So maximum two bedroom. is is usually what an A D is. Very rarely are they two bedroom. They're usually one bedroom or or Or a grape.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   36:05Right. What? And they're not usually on a five acres in a small tight community. We're talking about I'm trying to expand it to make it more flexible.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   36:12That is not an that's not a few.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   36:13I'm serving a countywide function here, not just one little area. One little one little cu cute little area. I'm looking to try to take care of everybody in the county with this ordinance. You can't

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   36:23Then I want full impact fee on that. Hundred percent infect peace. 'Cause that is something totally different than what we're trying to do here. Can can one of you guys speak to what typically is an ADU? Are we veering off from what we started out to do?

   Planning Director

   36:40Um I I guess one caveat I will add is um t to to their points. Uh other jurisdictions have size ranges that go from four like smaller cities, four hundred, five hundred to um larger counties. The I've seen some up go to thirteen, fourteen hundred square feet. So size ranges can vary depending on location. But I will say that w We are um We're we're trying to um The density restriction, right? We're we're saying these things don't count towards density.

   37:11I think the the larger you make these and the bigger the impact these things have, the argument doesn't get as strong, uh isn't as strong once these things become larger buildings. So if we're if we're trying to have ADUs be exempt from the density requirements, but it's a three thousand square foot building, w that it that might be a little bit of a struggle.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   37:33So if you do if you do a compromise position to that. So let's say you get a fifteen hundred foot unit now. And you're gonna go build a twenty five hundred unit up. Give 'em a credit for the twelve hundred next to the twenty five. Now your offset's the same.

   37:50You have different levels of permitting di imp impact fee. I think the cutoff is like fifteen hundred. Once you're over fifteen hundred, if you hire that there's a fee, it doesn't go above that number. If you give a credit for the baseline number of however many square foot, take it off the other unit that comes in and then you can assess your impact fee from that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   38:13Madam Chairman Mariano. Don't usually do this, but I'll try and help. Um the American Planning Association definition of an accessory dwelling unit. An accessory dwelling unit ADU is a smaller independent residential dwelling unit located on the same lot as a standalone, i.e. detached single family home. ADUs go by many different names throughout the US, including accessory apartments, secondary suites, Granny

   38:43Flats ADUs can be converted portions of existing homes, internal ADUs, Additions to new or existing homes, i.e. attached ADUs, or standalone accessory structures or converted pro portions of existing standalone accessory structures I've already detached eighty years.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   39:05But it doesn't say it's a second house or second

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   39:10full house. So by definition it clearly should not be bigger than the primary structure. Yes. Um That would be something other than an accessory dwelling unit. But

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   39:22that's that's another home. Not an accessory. That's n home number two. Right? I mean Right. See Liam Liam's agreeing with me. You he can say that 'cause he's leaving now.

   39:40Um I I are any of you guys or any of you guys familiar with ADUs that could come up and help this board understand them. Take a poll. Why? Because I don't think You know, I'm trying to get you guys to go to U L I or CNU or somewhere and get educated on some of this stuff and it's really frustrating. That's right. You're talking about two houses on a lot and I'm talking about an a a a an accessory

   40:10dwelling unit. And I think it's two different things.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   40:13Madam Chair.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   40:14Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   40:15And hearing the county attorney's definition, I'm not gonna argue the point of what DEDU is, but I will tell you my staff conversations I'm a little disappointed this didn't come out and we didn't like try to work 'cause you know I'm trying to work on people that are trying to build a home with another home on there and bring something forward for that. So I'll say this. It's after we get done with this conversation, maybe in committee reports, I want to bring it up. That's what I'm trying to accomplish. I was given thoughts where this could be modified to make that work. Um I'm

   40:45hearing differently now, but I I do want to make sure we can work with the people that live here. Five, ten acre parcels that want to build another home, have a family member there. And maybe it's bigger, bigger to smaller or smaller to bigger, but I want people to be able to do something with their property instead of just having to sell developers because they can't keep on going where they want to live.

   Planning Director

   41:04Yeah, I I think we recognize what what you're talking about, our our subdivision regulations and plotting regulations are are somewhat cumbersome and can be difficult. Um I we are actively, I think, trying to meet and work on making that process more efficient and quicker. Um so those scenarios that you're describing won't take years.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:24And I and I agree with you. I I'll give you an example. Um you know what you know remember Jose? Do you know Jose the real estate guy? Um so there there was a home that David Williams built in a subdivision off of Plath. I can't Williamsburg maybe? Big giant beautiful home. And um a actually a producer from LA bought it so And they wanted to build a little a little two bedroom cottage in the back. for when they had family visit from California. And Because

   41:55that subdivision and it is fairly big lots in there. had already been subdivided so many times, they could not add A little guest cottage. And so what they end ended up having to do was build a walkway to the guest cottage and that was all the same house. If it's attached. I mean, it's kinda silly. So Um So I I do think there's things that we need to fix because they should have been allowed to do that without having to

   42:25Subdivide plat and whatever that is. Um So I I'm in agreement with you on some things but I'm not in agreement with you on on your big picture. On this one. On this particular one. And I don't want to slow this down because I'm trying to encourage people to add these little apartments. Over their garages. You're and um And we have a developer in here doing a lot of rear loaded product. And they have a great opportunity to add these and

   42:56I say if they're you know, seven hundred and fifty or below, I don't think it should be any impact fee. So if it's a one bedroom or or Or a a uh In just a little cottage, I don't think there's any impact.

   Lisa Yeager

   43:09Well why can't we just do the nine hundred like he was proposing and then if they needed a special exception then they would get the impact fee.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   43:17I'm thinking of uh the house that my daughter's renting. Uh um right. They're moving in in a couple of weeks. It's a little cottage in New Port Richey. And it's it's eight hundred square feet. But it's it's two bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen, a bathroom, a little laundry That's kind of to me to not charge any impact fee that's kind of pushing it. I At some point the school district's gonna want a school impact fee and there may be more impact to the neighborhood. I don't know what that number is. I probably should have

   43:47asked before this meeting what the right number is to be where we don't charge any impact impacts. Impact fees. Um but David said don't go by bedrooms, he said go by feet. So

   Planning Director

   44:01just

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:01throwing out a smaller one than nine hundred feet.

   Planning Director

   44:03A ADUs currently have a reduced rate. Um

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:06I know. But it's not it's still something.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   44:09So I think we'd have to ask the school district what number they'd be comfortable with in terms of Basically a de minimis threshold where th that we shouldn't assess any impact fee. Maybe Liam knows.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:20I was just trying I was trying to get to a one bedroom because a family is not gonna move into a one bedroom.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   44:26So the discussion of Planning Commission was they'd be assessed a lower rate, which is the multifamily rate. There is a lower school impact fee for smaller the same rate as an apartment.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:35It's still significant.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   44:36But it's still a fee. So if you wanted to exempt them entirely My biggest concern is schools. I mean I in theory parks and library there's already a reduced fee for mobility, but we could reduce that further as part of our update. My biggest concern is schools because that's not just us, that's the school district too. I don't want to be our board to be just saying they're exempt from school impact fee without conferring with the school district on what number what square footage they'd feel comfortable. There's basically a The minimum impact of the school district, and therefore we can exempt them entirely. I

   45:07don't think it's 900 square feet, I'll be honest with you. I'm not even sure if it's 750. But I'd have to talk to Chris Williams about that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:14Well, we're just we're in discussion today.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   45:16But we can we can between now and the final public hearing we can have that discussion with the school district.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:20What's your thoughts on that?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   45:24Well you look right first. Huh?

   45:28Um my thoughts are this as far as I I want to give flip people flexibility. If they want to go to twelve hundred, so be it. If you wanna if you wanna look at well if you if you wanna look at the numbers over the impact fee, so be it. But give the people the option. I mean you could be in a three thousand square foot home and you want to go over the top of the garage, you may have to take part of the other room and go back and it may turn up to twelve hundred feet and you may get your Son and daughter coming in with their baby, they want to live above you for a year or two while they're trying to get their self squared away, whatever the case

   45:59may be. Maybe family members or grandparents that want to come down for like six months a year and you want to c create that, but they need livable space to go. And my parents separately both live in like twelve hundred square foot units. They're both two bedroom. But if they had someone coming down, they can accommodate 'em and not just crush them out of space either. So I want to give I want to give the flexibility.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   46:20To me twelve hundred's too big, that's that's another house. That's a house.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   46:26You're being taxed on it. Property appraisers are gonna name you. You're gonna be paying on it one way or another. It's not like it's a coupon. You're that person's gonna be paying permitting and you name it. It's not what the county's gonna fee 'em to death. That we're gonna be taxed on it, so it's not like they're getting a all pass on paying any of the coffers.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   46:47You know what what I don't wanna see is a twelve hundred Yeah. Sorry, square foot trailer, put another twelve hundred square foot trailer on their property and call it Native U.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   47:00Well in that scenario your

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   47:01scenario can happen.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   47:02Well I was talking about five acre lots, ten acre lots. We're now talking about ADUs as the county attorney described it, so it's a different world now.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   47:13Could that happen in what he's

   Planning Director

   47:16I I I think the we're back to the um finished floor, the the mobile homes I think is is out of the conversation at this point. So I think we're just talking about two units.

   47:33Yeah. Um uh two two uh nine hundred square feet gives you, you know, the two bedroom, two bath, um full service kitchen.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   47:42Nine hundred square feet would be the max, I think. That's a two and that my daughter's running eight hundred square feet. It's two bedrooms, a bathroom, a kitchen, living room, dining room.

   Planning Director

   47:53And I know the answer isn't the best answer, but there is a mechanism currently to allow you to exceed that if uh yes it is another process that it can be time consuming, but there is something to go above that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   48:06I want to make it easy. I want to give people flexibility.

   Planning Director

   48:09I I understand.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   48:09Well nine hundred is a pretty good size.

   48:14What about architectural details?

   Planning Director

   48:17Um for well, I we don't enforce architectural details, at least for Euclidean, for M P U D we would defer to the MPUD if there was was anything there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   48:30I think the commissioner is asking. Do you is there anything in the ADU ordinance that would have an architectural detail?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   48:39Some places make a match the architecture vernacular of that of the current house.

   48:45I mean you don't

   Planning Director

   48:46we're gonna be changing the MPV Conditions to talk about.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   48:50actually we're trying to do opposite M Ps it to have any different

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   48:54things. You may be forgetting that you pre we're preempted on that issue. Oh, that's true. Well remember the state law changed and we Well

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:01did it preempt an ADU specifically?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   49:04It preempted our ability to regulate architecture on single family dwellings. So this is arguably a single family dwelling. Now with the M PUDs they're right, they sometimes voluntarily do architectural Requirements, but that's something the developer proposes voluntarily to get their MPD approved.

   49:26But you remember this the the state preemption on this issue?

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   49:29Yeah.

   49:32Adding to that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:38You know, be careful what we need to be careful.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   49:43Well Chair, I think I think I think Patrick he hears us. I think we're wanna move forward to just just a reading today. Yep. Maybe set some off site meetings or what have you and see what you come up with in your brainstorm room and then when we bring it back have something, you know. For final that way for the for the sake of time. I I think we're all on the same team here and agree we need to move forward.

   50:14Spend the next hour flushing out here. I think sure if we meet private you know individually and then go from there and do it.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   50:21And um well we do want to take public comment. Um and for the record for my planners, maybe some architects. Andres Dwani's cousin rented our ADU in the backyard. She lived there for years.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   50:32Madam Chair? Yeah. Just one quick question. On uh section F number two, um it says as far as the board quarters, stem walls, hoard piers, does it matter if it's board or metal?

   Planning Director

   50:43Um I do not know. Um I can get clarity on that. I relied on the building department for that so I can check with them.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   50:50I I know some that do metal peers, so if you could put the flexibility in that would be good.

   Planning Director

   50:54Okay, got it.

   51:00Are you taking public comment now?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   51:02Yes. Okay. Would anyone like to speak to this? Come on up, Mr. Engineer.

   project engineer

   51:13Good afternoon, board. Jeremy Couch, [address removed]. So I actually had this conversation with Denise Hernandez probably a year or two ago. Um one of the things I think you should consider is not requiring it to meet the principal setbacks. It kind of wipes out your ability to build about 90% of these. If they have to meet like a 20-foot rear yard and 10-foot side yard. If if the intent is to have garage apartments, garages can be

   51:43built within five feet of the property lines. And so in theory, this small dwelling would be on top of that. And everywhere you look at Saint Pete's

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   51:54restrictions. Did we put restrictions in here on set that's the

   project engineer

   51:57meet the principal structure? Which my neighbor can build a five thousand square foot metal building five foot from my property line. But can't put an air conditioner. And a sink and a dishwasher in there.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   52:10Yeah, same with my neighborhood, Aristida.

   project engineer

   52:13So that's a challenge.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   52:14An accessory building, but it's

   project engineer

   52:16an accessory building and it should meet accessory setbacks. Thank you.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   52:21Um I did have a question on wait, does anyone else want to speak to this?

   52:27Um I did have a question if you convert your garage Um to an accessory dwelling unit. It's not at the same elevation as the house. Is that an issue with flooding? Uh uh.

   Planning Director

   52:45I'm sorry, what was the question?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   52:46If if you're allowing a garage conversion. Garages are lower. Um any flooding issues or floor height requirements?

   Planning Director

   52:56I would assume when the permit application came in through central permitting they'd be looking at finished floor and habitable space with the building permit application if they needed to change it.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   53:05So if it's an existing house uh and they're not at the um current FEMA BFE? Um Do they have to bring the gr would they have to bring the new unit up or how does that I mean we need to compensate these things.

   Planning Director

   53:19Yeah, uh yes. And that's a um I don't specialize in building permitting, but I'm almost positive the answer is that they'll need to provide floodproofing um to to the unit. If anyone knows better than I do, feel free to speak up.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   53:31All right. So these are just things we've got to flesh out between now and the next next hearing. Okay.

   Planning Director

   53:38Yeah. Right. And yes, but Florida building code. Um we have the language in there, so I I would think that yes, if they're trying to turn something that wasn't habitable into something that is habitable, the Florida building code would uh apply and then yes, they would have to make sure it's flood proof.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   53:56Okay, well we're de taking the action then, right, today? Spirited discussion.

   Planning Director

   54:00Yes. Um may I I so yes, I I I hear there's some work to be done, but maybe some clearer direction on s because I I've heard a few things, so I just want to make sure that's um the direction I go in now is is the correct direction.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   54:15What direction are you going?

   Planning Director

   54:16Well that I'm looking for clarity 'cause there's been a lot of communication and if there's

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   54:21a lot of things. Well, um I know I don't want twelve hundred square feet, so I I think we had some consensus at nine hundred. No.

   54:32Ugly speak up over there. Where where are you?

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   54:36The consensus was if we went higher they were gonna look at the impact fee and talk with the school district and see what the opportunities with that were. So we could go higher but it may trigger some level of a fee or impact fee, but that's to be determined by getting counsel from the school district that we were going to explore that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   54:55I think a twelve twelve hundred is the size of a house and that is a different issue than building a little cottage in your backyard. So right? Yes.

   Ron Oakley

   55:06Not that I I thought this was about accessory houses, not another house being built on the on the same property. Right. And it would be either somehow connected to the main house by a sidewalk or or something to it, like if you had an outside garage. You'd change it, convert that over. But it wouldn't be this huge building. Right. And you wouldn't be allowing people to come in and build a bigger home than the original home. It'd be an accessory building

   55:36only. So you're not allowing people to if you got a property that's five acres and you got a homeowner, you don't just bring out the fact that you uh put a larger home on there just because you you think it's an accessory, that's not an accessory. Thank you. So that that wouldn't be part of part of this uh issue right here. So the fact of it is is it's a smaller building. Like You're hearing you got elderly parents and they want to move near

   56:07their family and their children so they can be the children can actually have take care of them and they live in this accessory uh building. Yeah. I thought that was the whole purpose. That is. Accessory building.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   56:21I I I hear what you guys are saying. That it uh but that's a different issue. But then accessory tooling, yeah.

   Ron Oakley

   56:29Yeah, I hear what they're saying, but the fact of it is we're not putting this up so you got One for one house for five acres to put another home on five acres, that'd be two houses for five acres. This is not set up to do that and we're not allowing that. So this is only for one house and the fact that if you need an accessory unit, either for a child that's gotten injured or whatever needs extra care, but maybe wants their own little space. that's that's okay or

   56:59if it's family I know in uh Pasco Trails there's a family out there waiting to get this done so they can build an accessory unit connected to their house that their parents could live in and they help take care of. That's what I thought about.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   57:19That's three votes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   57:22Hang on.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   57:22Okay, but we got I

   57:24have

   57:24a very important appointment at my thing, so I'm gonna

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   57:27keep this. So, Commissioner Oakley, so again, accepting the attorney's definition, I'm gonna work on the evidence for the other thing for bigger things, uh for big bigger properties. But as far as this goes, as far as like whether it be 900 or 1200, if you got a family, let's say, let's say they got a thirty five hundred Square foot home on five acres. Up in Trilby wherever it may be. And the parents want to come down, but they need room. And nine hundred's not going to be enough. You're gonna tell me that you would own a lumble out another three hundred feet if they wanted to go do

   57:57it and willing to pay the fees?

   Ron Oakley

   58:00Well I think that's something we'd have to discuss at the time. Yeah.

   Lisa Yeager

   58:08Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   58:09I'm just trying to make it easy for 'em. But again, my whole perception of what this was going to be a talking to staff is different from what the intent of an a normal ADU is. I get that. If someone wants to get a birth bring an accessory dweller unit, they're on a big piece of property, they want to go to larger units, why keep them from if they get the room?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   58:32I'm gonna show you some. You could take a walking tour in Long League.

   58:37Um okay, we're gonna keep moving.

   Planning Director

   58:40Okay. Thank you for your time.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   58:42Got some direct,

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   58:43you can

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   58:44keep

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   58:44talking before you leave.

   Planning Director

   58:45Um yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   58:46Normally you announce when the second hearing is gonna be before you conclude.

   Planning Director

   58:51Okay. Uh yes, uh March twenty fifth, I believe.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   58:55You the agenda memo says March twenty twenty fifth.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   58:58No, don't do it that day because I won't be here.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   59:03Jack

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   59:03will be

   Ron Oakley

   59:03checking. Move

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   59:04approval.

   59:06Move approval March twenty fifth.

   Ron Oakley

   59:09Yeah.

   Planning Director

   59:10Okay.

   59:13Uh I think so, but we'll have to Okay, we'll make it work. Okay. All right. Thank you.

   Seth WeightmanSecond Vice Chair

   59:19Good job, Patrick. Let's go.

3. 3Mar 25, 2025
   Board of County CommissionersP34Public hearingContinued

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue to the April 9, 2025 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 10:02
   ▶ 10:021m

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   10:02Item P thirty-four was published in the Tambay Times on February fifth, twenty twenty-five. Thank

   Nectarios Pittos

   10:08you. Terry?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   10:09Yeah.

   Nectarios Pittos

   10:09Item P thirty-four is PD twenty-five zero one zero three. This is an ordinance amending the Pasco County Land Development Code. for the uh accessory dwelling units. This is requested for continuance to the April 9, 2025 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 130 P.M. in Dade City. Before we go there continuance.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   10:28Before

   Nectarios Pittos

   10:28we go

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   10:29I know it's advertised, but any reason why we continue it?

   Ron Oakley

   10:36I would imagine some language we'll get that uh

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   10:44This is the one Commissioner Starkey wanted to be here for, wasn't it not?

   Unidentified speaker

   10:48Uh that is Patrick Dutter, Planning Development, Economic Growth. Uh yes, Commissioner Starkey wanted to be here for this. Also uh we did some additional time to do some additional research to be prepared.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   10:56Okay. Okay. So have a second.

   Lisa Yeager

   11:00Second.

4. 4Apr 9, 2025
   Board of County CommissionersP34Public hearingAdopted

   Approved minutes

   Approved to adopt with the notation that they can go to 1,200 square feet and to leave the stormwater part out by a roll call vote with Chairman Starkey voting nay.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 11:18
   ▶ 11:1839m

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   11:18Item P 34 was published in the Tampa Times on February 5, 2025. The item was continued from March 25, 2025 BCC meeting to today.

   Planning Director

   11:31All right, uh good afternoon, Commissioner. Patrick Dutter, Planning, Development, Economic Growth. Uh this is the uh much awaited ADU uh ordinance. Um reading the title here: uh an ordinance by the Pasco County Board County Commissioner Oakending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Section 503, AC Agricultural District, Section 50504, AC-1 Agricultural District, Section 505, AR Agricultural District, Section 506 AR1. Agricultural Residential District, Section 507, AR5, Agricultural Residential District. Section 509, ER Estate

   12:01Residential District, Section 510, ER2, Estate Residential District. Section 512 R1MH Single Family Mobile Home District. Section 514 R1 Rural Desert Density Residential District. Section 515 R2 Low Density Residential District. Section 516 R3 Medium Density Residential District. Section 517 R5 D. for high density residential districts, section five thirty point three, construction of accessory buildings and structures. Creating new section 530.2 for accessory dwelling units, appendix A definitions and other sections as necessary

   12:31for internal consistency, providing for replicability repealer, providing for severability, inclusion of the land development code, and an effective date. So if you recall, I think a month ago we had some conversation about the proposed ADU language uh and we had I think some very good um dialogue and so we have some updates based off of that dialogue and some things that we've changed in the code since then. Um but first before I do that um there is an update for ADUs on the state level. Um

   13:02so legislation is making its way through the house, both the House and Senate for ADUs. Uh the intention is to require local governments to adopt an ordinance to permit ADUs for affordable housing. Uh depending on the legislation that go get that gets adopted, we may in the not so distant future have to come back and amend our code. So we'll see. See what happens there. Um it's House Bill 247 and Senate Bill 184. So just to have that on your radar.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   13:25Well in effect ADUs are affordable housing, so what what's the difference?

   Planning Director

   13:30I I don't know the specifics of the language, but I think we just gotta keep an eye out to see if it affects anything.

   Mike Carballa

   13:35This is just to monitor and come up in case there's a nuance. But we're not anticipating any issues with it right now. Ralph, I don't believe so he's shaking his head.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   13:46Well they should be happy we're doing an ADU ordinance.

   Planning Director

   13:49Right. Okay. Okay. So some discussion points from our last meeting. So one is there potential for larger ADUs on larger lots? So staff response to that as for the board to consider permitting parcels with one acre more of land to have an ADU up to twelve hundred square feet. Note this can still be exceeded with the approval. of a special exception. So I think right there was uh conversation about potentially larger lots, um should get

   14:19larger ADUs and uh trying to meet in the middle there. So that's a proposed solution.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   14:23Is uh do you want us to discuss this now or when you're done?

   Planning Director

   14:26You can discuss now if you'd like.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   14:28Okay, well I would be against that.

   14:30Madam Chairman

   14:30Mariano. That's a house, not an ADU. That's not an accessory, yes.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   14:35Did everyone did everyone see the copy of the uh email from Grover Flack Designs? I think you sent it out to everybody, no?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   14:42When

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   14:43Uh what was in last week? Uh could you put it up, Tony? I I read you the email. He's a he's a designer. He says I've designed a new home for my niece, her husband In which they put it up for permitting. However, I didn't realize that Pasco County didn't currently have an ordinance for accessory dwelling units. After speaking with someone from zoning, I understand the commission is currently reviewing considering a new ordinance for accessor accessory dwelling units. I've attached the current ordinance from Hernando County for accessory dwelling units that has been in place since twenty

   15:13twelve. I didn't even know they had one. Or

   Denise

   15:15Nando?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   15:16Ornando. I hope you can take consideration of Hernando County ordinance the way it's written and can adopt some language. In particular, I'd like to see the following from Hernando County's ordinance. An accessory dwelling unit shall be subordinate to the primary structure such that the maximum gross habitable floor area of the accessory dwelling unit shall not exceed 50% of the gross habitable floor area of the primary. Dwelling units. You won't have like a small house and a big house type thing. Um with the 50% rule,

   15:47in lieu of having a maximum set gross habitable floor space, the designs of the ADU can then have better layouts. No matter how big over the home the owners would want, the ADU cannot be any larger than what the size of the lot can allow with all the setbacks. Uh he attached some uh briefings with it, but for instance this one here that he sh he sent over it has an area of uh the house has a floor area of twenty five hundred eleven feet and the ADU has twelve hundred and forty feet. It fits their thing, it's at forty nine point four

   16:17percent. It's been ta tried and tested for thirteen years out there, it's worked pretty well and uh again he th he thought we had one so we had to kinda take a step back. But But this I think does what we're trying to do and it fits in line with what would probably work better coming from an engineer designer.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   16:37Well I'm I I to me that's a house. That's a three bedroom house. I don't think that's what our intent is. Um it's for me it's too big, but I will um is this our first or second meeting? Second. Okay. Um I just put some text out to people who are more knowledgeable than me, but I I've never I've not heard of that as an that size as an accessory dwelling unit. I think it's too big. And then you're gonna start having kids. Then you're gonna st then you're gonna start having a

   17:07lot more cars and then you're gonna have school impacts because you're gonna have a three bedroom house and where are all those cars gonna park? So I I I I personally am against that.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   17:20Well, they're on an acre. Remember we're not in a Forty five.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:25So they can park all over the grass in the front

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   17:27the front yard? They park in the backyard, they can park wherever. They have this room before.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:35But what if it's a one acre in an uh M P U D? Where

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   17:39do we have those?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   17:41Uh well we have it in Starkey Ranch. It's in uh Aristida we have half acre to three acre.

   17:48Um we're allowed to have an accessory building um but it can't have uh a kitchen in it because of the county codes. I mean that could change now.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   17:58Patrick, they would the C D D's rules over the

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   18:00It's not C D D. It's H O S.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   18:03C D doesn't have land use authority. So they they wouldn't have that at all. And HOA documents might But C D Ds don't control footprint like that. Oh,

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   18:14and it's covered by a walkway

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   18:15right

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   18:15now. So I just texted Frank who's a national expert on all this stuff. I would not put a minimum on it, but if you need a maximum I would put it at eight hundred feet. Some places go up to twelve hundred like Fernando did, but that can be a two-bedroom or even three-bedroom. Uh which becomes a house. Fayetteville allows an ADU that is detached plus an ADU that is part of the main house com and combined. They cannot exceed twelve hundred feet. But you can have one of them but you can have one of them be twelve hundred feet. I

   18:45don't really understand that one. But I agree at twelve hundred feet is a house.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   18:50You say that what he said about

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   18:51twelve hundred feet you can't Um So h he just said that he's talking to his text and so that last sentence didn't make sense. But So don't put a minimum on it, but I would put a maximum of eight hundred feet.

   Lisa Yeager

   19:07That's my favorite. Mm-hmm. I'm fine with that.

   Planning Director

   19:13Okay. Uh we we can keep going or if you want to keep discussing this it's it's your choice.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:18I let it roll.

   Ron Oakley

   19:19Weren't we talking about a nine hundred square feet at one time? Oh

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:23yeah, I think I said nine hundred last time. So I'd go to nine hundred. Yeah, I think I'd be right. But no no more.

   Lisa Yeager

   19:29But it with a special if they want twelve hundred they can apply for special conditions, right?

   Planning Director

   19:34A special exception, they can exceed that, yes.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   19:37Okay. I'd be okay with that. Because maybe you have a really big line.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   19:41I mean if you get if I get a if I get a big lot and a big house and again if a designer says it fits better do that. Um I'll I'll I'll leave it to them. I mean between nine hundred and twelve hundred feet. I mean if the hose is big enough so be it. Let let let it go. It's not gonna break it's not a dramatic thing of like maybe there's an another bike that's coming or something, but if it's simple, it's easy, let 'em go do it. Ru why make 'em do this special exception row. And it's worked for twelve years. We didn't even know they had it up there.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   20:11Well, you know, they don't have I mean A twelve hundred feet is another house. And I don't agree with putting that in someone's backyard in a neighborhood. Um and adding potentially three cars. If it's a twelve hundred feet's gonna be a three bedroom house, you're gonna have two teenagers and two adults, so you're adding four more cars to a lot with the house in it already, if they're renting it out to a family. The idea the idea is is it's either uh a place for a

   20:41college kid or you rent out w one bedroom This is how it works in Longleaf. Well we have some divorced dads who have rented them, but some of our county attorneys have rented them because they've kept their homes in other areas. Um Or you have um a kid that just got out of college and wants to live in a neighborhood that he normally couldn't afford. And And that's the idea of an ADU. It isn't to take a lot and subdivide it so you're both you and your family are all living together on the same lot. Or or or your or bring in your your

   21:13mom and dad who need to be closer to you. It's not meant to bring in a family in your backyard.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   21:19I'm going to say that if you look at s if let's say a family's got a big house, et cetera, they want to move out, but they don't really want to move out. And You know, both my parents are living in twelve hundred square foot condominiums. They're two bedrooms, they're two bath, they're not that big, they're not three bedroom, they couldn't be a three bedroom, unless you really wanted to take away the side room and you have everybody in one small room. So I I think twelve hundred is a reasonable number. A lot of your two bedroom condos are built that way, so and again Fernando County's done it and they make the limit to de based on

   21:49the size of the structure that's beside it or part of it, then I think it works.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   21:53I I think we had three at eight hundred and we moved it to even moved it to nine hundred is the direction I heard.

   Planning Director

   22:00The the last time this was brought to you we had it at 900. And then the language that we have today has nine hundred with the caveat that if you have one acre or larger lot you could do twelve hundred. But it's to the board's discretion if they want to adjust that further.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   22:17Yeah, I I don't want I don't want that one acre caveat. It would have to be bigger and rural um I live on three acres. It would not be appropriate in my neighborhood to put another house on my property. I could put a barn with a apartment above. Mm-hmm. If you want if you want if you have a big lot and you want your family to move in you can just subdivide your lot. Build a house. Next door.

   Planning Director

   22:52Would you like me to keep going through the rest? Okay. All right. Uh so the next discussion point, um staff adjustments to previous pro uh proposed language in terms of permitting a special exception for dimensional standards. Um so we previously were allowing people to apply for a special exception for all the dimensional standards, including height, setbacks, size, um And I think lock coverage was the one of them. We didn't really think it appropriate that someone allow

   23:22be allowed to apply for a special exception to exceed the height or lock coverage. So we kind of struck that. Leaving the special exception ability for people that need to go into the setback if needed or increase the size of the unit, but not so much for height and lock coverage. That's a change that we made. Okay.

   23:43Uh the next one, um there was oh concern about ADUs and primary structure being used as short-term rentals. So again our our current language says that they are prohibited. Um now there's potentially enforcement issues along with that. It would maybe a a separate uh conversation, but our current language um prohibits them unless they go through the process that we already have in place.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   24:07Which is a neighborhood that allows them by right, right? We have neighborhoods that have said we're okay with short term rentals.

   Planning Director

   24:14Um I believe if you're trying to get a short term mentality. Yes, Denise Hernandez.

   Denise

   24:23Denise Hernandez. So yes, there's several ways. So it's either already approved in their Plat, so it's in the Plat Recordation. Um the other way would be if it's not in the plat recordation there's certain Um there's certain neighborhoods that have been pre-approved from when they registered back many years ago. And then the other way would be to go through the conditional use process. But before you start that process, they have to have a petition signed by 51%. or more of the owners uh that live within that plat or within the

   24:53subdivision. And that could start the actual process and it's a conditional use and comes to the Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners for approval.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   25:01Okay. Commissioner Oakley did you have a question? I was just

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   25:03gonna make a point. Um I mentioned that email to everybody. Uh just looked at it looked it up. And I was actually sending it to Terry. But it was still in draft form in that sense. So my my error so he's got it now, but anyway. So I apologize. I thought you all had

   Denise

   25:17to

   25:17do it.

   25:22Patrick had in the beginning, which uh what's going through the legislature right now may outright completely prohibit them. So short term v vacant vac vacation rentals. At least one of I don't know if it's the House bill or the Senate bill has that within it. You mean anywhere? Anywhere. In Florida? That's correct. Good

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   25:42luck with that. That the A D

   Denise

   25:44U that an A D U cannot be correct. That an ADU cannot be used as a vacation rental. That's one of the versions that's out there. Thank you.

   Planning Director

   25:58Uh so next slide.

   26:02Another discussion point. Is there potentials for eliminating impact fees for ADUs? So staff's response there. The removal of the county's impact fee for de minimis impacts is at the discretion of the BCC. Please note that affordable ADUs committed to below 80% AMI are already exempt from most impact fees. An additional recommendation for BCCs. To consider for aid users that do not qualify as affordable. So all these recommendations

   26:32exclude water and service connection fees. But you could exempt all impact fees other than schools for a unit less than 500 square feet. This exemption is based on the existing home edition square footage that is exempt from increased mobility fee based on house size. Uh the school district uh also is going to be evaluating a potential diminished threshold as part of their next update to the school impact fee. Uh for units between five hundred and nine hundred square feet, continue to rely on the existing mobility fee and school discount

   27:03rate and the applicable rates for other impact fees. And for units above nine hundred square feet, full impact fee shall be paid. So that's the Proposal from staff on how to handle uh impact fee for ADUs. Any questions on that?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   27:21Trying to figure out what the difference is between B and C.

   Planning Director

   27:25Uh so there's currently already a a a row in our mobility fee table that has basically a discounted rate for ADUs because we do have some ADUs in the county already, uh through some MPUDs like Longleaf and others.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   27:38Yeah, I well I love A, but I don't understand the difference between B and C.

   Planning Director

   27:42Yeah, so so B is just saying

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   27:44school rate.

   Planning Director

   27:46Uh B is saying we're gonna rely on what exists in our current tables, which is basically a discount. And then C is saying, you know, anything above nine hundred to your point is like a single family home, so therefore it should be charged full impact fee. That's the difference between B and C.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   28:03Well if that's the case, let 'em go twelve hundred square feet if they're gonna pay full full impact fee. I mean give 'em more bang for their buck if you're trying to incentivize these

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   28:13if you just swash them. If they come in If we allow that on larger than one acre lots in my opinion, um in areas in the county. I I I don't understand though, once you get to a three acre, five acre, ten acre lot. Why don't they just subdivide instead of building another home and home on on the property? Um

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   28:37sometimes properties are already subdivided as max as they can be

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   28:40subdivided. Well we're gonna get rid of those we're gonna get rid of that I think. Well it's not

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   28:44that's not today, but a lot of properties are already subdivided as far as they can sub they can't subdivide it anymore. They're at their five or their ten acre or they're stuck at twenty. Stuck with whatever. This allows them to do more with their property that they own, freedom with their land. Property rights. You know. You have rules for everything.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   29:07Yes, we do. Do you want to just get rid of everything?

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   29:09Get rid of everything. Trying to try and allow Well yeah, I've had my way I'd cut a whole lot of rules out of out of things and Jack's smile. Come with it. But but this is this is to allow Look, when you bring up the kids in their cars, they're going to be at the house regardless if they have this or not. The cars are still going to be in the driveway because they can't afford to live anywhere, so they're still going to be at home. So the same amount of cars are going to be there irregardless of if there's an extra bedroom or two. They're still going to use the same amount of water, irregardless if there's an it's just more space

   29:40that people can not be so crammed in their home. That's what it comes down to. And

   Lisa Yeager

   29:45really when we think about three hundred square feet, it's really tiny. The minimum. Very

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   29:50small. I am I am okay with No impact fee for up to nine hundred feet. I d I didn't want any I I want to encourage them. Um So I was trying to figure out how to even get away from water and sewer and one of the ways we talked if they were smaller, one of the ways we talked about it was if they didn't have a separate meter. Um if it was metered with the house and then and and they paid their water bill as part

   30:20of the house bill, as part of their rent. You wouldn't have to have another meter and you wouldn't have another Connection. Um, I I think it's really important to encourage them. But Not Twelve hundred. That's just great. Um but I'd be okay with this chart.

   Planning Director

   30:41Do you want me to keep going?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   30:53They can

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   30:53add on

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   30:53to their house. I'm

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   30:54just saying

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   30:54This is a separate house. This is separate house.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   30:57I I'm just saying nine hundred feet, twelve hundred feet is what we're talking about. So what does it really matter? to the whole thing other than someone's comfort. And if it's affordability, if they can't afford 12, they're going to build nine. But literally, I've got. One one parent who's a senior that lives in a loan does not want to go into a home, wants to stay in her place. She's comfortable there. She's got company that comes down. They can stay there, be comfortable, they have their own space. But

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   31:20you don't need twelve hundred feet.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   31:22She wants. It's not need, it's wants. This is all about wants. I want support?

   Lisa Yeager

   31:30Honestly, we just looked in to this uh for my mom and we had an architect and Sh she c she really wanted a space for her friends. Yeah. And we could not do it in that little of square feet.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   31:42Well, my daughter just rented a seven hundred square foot um house in New Port Richey and it's kitchen, a living room. Two bedrooms, a bathroom, and a hall closet for 700 feet. So

   32:01Twelve hundred is is a starter house. In my opinion. Um, I don't know.

   32:09So are you switching now from nine hundred 'cause maybe I'm I I don't know. People need to speak up. I I I think twelve hundred are way too big. Um unless You're on a really big body. My neighborhood is half acre acre and three acre lots.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   32:25When these happens they're going to be taxed on it, so they're going to figure out how big they want to go if we say up to. You're not going to get a hundred percent of twelve hundred feet. C and D calls them. Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   32:38So I'll say I want twelve hundred feet.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   32:40I agree. I'll third it. Uh fourth. Fourth and What's one

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   32:47of those two hillbillies? Okay. Yeah. And they can all be tra and they can be trailers. Yeah.

   Unidentified speaker

   33:01No, we're not no the presentation port.

   Planning Director

   33:03Yeah, would would you like we can keep moving? We just took

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   33:05care of that part of it for you. Let's move.

   Planning Director

   33:07Okay, we're gonna keep moving. Um the next discussion point, uh uh Commissioner Mariano, um look into aligning port and metal piers in terms of fixed foundation. Um I'm not a subject matter expert here, so we relied on the building department. Um so from the building departments technically from the Florida Building Code perspective, a foundation can be designed using any material. provided it meets all of the structural requirements. So we're changing our language to now say ADUs must be built on permanent fixed foundation that is designed to meet the requirements of the Florida building code and any reference standards. So um I think that should hopefully

   33:37solve your concern last time. Okay?

   33:41Uh next slides. Okay, great. Um so at the last hearing we had a citizen come up and speak uh about the setbacks and then also sent an email I think to Commissioner Weightman about these setbacks. So uh citizen concern and email um wanted accessory setbacks instead of using the primary setbacks of the zoning district. So just to clarify, um staff is proposing that for the ADU, um whatever your Required setback is for the zoning, that's what you use.

   34:12For uh accessory structures, we allow those to get on to five. So our response there, when staff was considering setbacks for ADUs, staff was concerned about the expectations of neighbors. When purchasing land, the expectation is that the neighbor will be a certain distance away. The neighbor may have a shed or garage, but these things are usually not used as often as the primary structure is. With the addition of an ADU, there could now be an accessory accessory living unit that could potentially be right next to the property line. The use of the primary setback was

   34:42to ensure that any impact an ADU has on his neighbor was next to minimal. One could envision an ADU being built on a second floor within the five feet of the property line, which would have a window looking right down into neighbor's backyard. Regardless, should someone want to deviate from these primary structured setback requirements, we provide the ability for an applicant to apply for a special exception to obtain a smaller setback, which requires Plan and Commission approval and a notice of public hearing. So.

   35:13Any questions on that?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   35:16Okay, I want to go back to the slide before I have a question on the parking and the driveways to these houses that are gonna be built behind the other house.

   Planning Director

   35:25Okay.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   35:25Okay. I want a rule that you can't park in in the grass in the yard. So they're gonna have to provide a driveway and parking. For the cars. Right? We're not going backwards in this county. We're supposed to be Premier. And I can show you house after house in my district. Where there's no yard because it's all cars parking in the front yard. Um And then also we have a rule is the lot coverage Is the coverage of the lot rule still there?

   Planning Director

   35:56Is the coverage?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   35:57Yeah, in my neighborhood in my boathouse,

   Planning Director

   35:59you

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   36:00cannot cover you have to leave at least twenty percent of your lot. Permeable.

   Planning Director

   36:05Sure. Yeah, lock coverage still exists.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   36:08I have it. But they're gonna have to have a A a driveway. Are they are they gonna have are we gonna require that twelve hundred feet to have a garage?

   Planning Director

   36:18Yeah, so it they're there. Yeah, and and as I'm sure you know, there are many different types of ADUs, right? ADU could be someone adding almost an expansion onto their home and with just with the second entrance. It could be a garage conversion, it could be an actual little unit.

   36:37Sure. And we we have in our code that they have to follow our land development code in terms of of parking. Um I I don't think. Yeah, I don't think our code gets into the specifics about parking on uh the driveway. But I want that in the

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   36:52in on this one.

   Planning Director

   36:54Okay. Um sure we'll have to figure out what that looks like, I guess. Um so if we're gonna keep going. Um Okay. Uh general question was asked about flood-proofing a garage conversion. Commissioner Starkey, I think you asked this. Um so our answer is they need to follow the Florida building code and FEMA regulations. Not every garage will be able to be converted to an ADU based on these standards. So um if they can meet FEMA regulations, they can convert. If not, sorry. Uh

   37:24next discussion point, uh the county attorney, uh thank you uh to Mr. Steinsnyder, uh read off a planner's definition of an ADU, focusing on the fact that ADU is smaller than the principal structure. So um we added in language, uh clarifying language that the ADU shall be smaller than the principal unit. So uh just a small, I think, oversight on our side, but just really just clarifying that the ADU needs to be smaller. So again appreciate Mr. Steinsider on that.

   37:53And then uh last uh but not least, uh this is an item that I I kind of talked about the last time, but we weren't really fully prepared and we really didn't get uh everything cleared up until actually yesterday at four o'clock, so I'm happy about that. So the Planning Commission voiced concern about permitting ADUs in locations that rely on infrastructure, so roads, that may not be safe during storm events. So the Planning Commission tasks us with trying to come up with some sort of map or some sort of way to if we are going to permit ADUs in

   38:23certain areas, make sure that you know we're not adding to a problem. So we added this code language. Should an ADU be proposed on a parcel for which local roadway access is located in a female flood zone, administrative review and approval of the ADU by the county administrator or designee is required. The county administrator or designee may deny or condition the approval of the ADU. If the local roadway access is unsigned, Safe during a storm event using historical flooding data.

   38:54Such determination is appealable to the Planning Commission for Sony II, Section 407 of this code. So basically what that looks like. An ADU building permit is applied for. The building permit team would review the segment of the local road between the parcel in question and the next closest division road. And if that segment is, if one of these roadway segments falls within a flood zone, the PDE department is notified so an additional evaluation can

   39:24be done. So this evaluation will rely on information about emergency response or flooding data provided by other relevant departments. So we'll probably reach out to public works and our fire departments to see if this segment of road, if in a flood zone, they've had issues before in the past. Should no immediate issue be identified, permit can continue, no problem. If there are concerns that can be conditioned, the permit should be conditioned. If there are concerns that can't be conditioned, the

   39:54permit will be denied, but that denial is appealable to the Planning Commission. So even if they get a a denial from staff, they still have a method to uh Kind of. go to another body to get it an answer. So that's how we plan on tackling the uh Planning Commission's request.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   40:12Madam Cha? Yep. That would take out everything west of US nineteen. And this past summer you would probably have locked out Zephyrhills in Dade City too. I think you got you're t doing too much over each air. If a home's built, it's already inhabited. It's some people living there, what's the difference?

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   40:32Yeah, I don't disagree.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   40:42I need one more.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   40:46I'll horse trade with you.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   40:50Well

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   40:50you you win on

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   40:51nine hundred feet?

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   40:52No. You win on cutting impact fee. You're winning there. on the impact fee piece. That's that the that's what you said. On number three. The driveway piece though, I I need some clarity on that. We're gonna start requiring driveways being built and all this other I was a bit confused.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:15Well they can use the house directly. The original cover thing. The original driver.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   41:21If I'm reading this correctly, the the house pending house bill would disallow you the ability to increase the parking requirements for an accessory dwelling unit.

   41:36I'm not

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:37saying increase, it's just you have to have some.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   41:39No, no, no. It says it you may not increase it beyond what the single family

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:43that's fine, but they just can't park on the grass.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   41:47Yeah.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   41:47They can't take out their landscaping and their grass or the family Whatever's moving in.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   41:55Well that's not a one size fits all.

   42:01solution. Because these are go if these go on larger lots then people probably won't park on them. In their yard.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   42:10In the backyard, but not in the front yard. Right.

   42:18I'll show you some photos of people who have lots of ADUs right now. Yeah.

   Planning Director

   42:24So so that's my entire presentation. So um I think there's still some things that you guys would like to discuss and work out and I'm here to answer any questions. I don't know if there are any um public here to speak on it, but I'm here if there are any other questions.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   42:43Mm'm Chair. Why do you want to do public comment, right?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   42:47Uh is there anyone here that wishes to speak to this ordinance?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   42:53There's no one on WebEx.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   42:55Like this.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   42:57Commissioner Weightman

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   42:58So let's talk about the impact fee. I again Commissioner Weightman saying that pretty much the same people live in the house who can stay in the house and this shouldn't be an any any extra impact if we can avoid it and we want to really increase the opportunities for people living in affordable housing, living with their families, which I think is a great way to go. Um If we can I would like to make a motion to approve this with twelve hundred square feet for a cap. Mr Chairman Mari

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   43:26Madam Chairman We have given you the legally defensible way to do impact fee of the the memory. Yeah,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   43:33I I wouldn't go for that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   43:35The problem is that once you do this, you jeopardize the mobility fees for everything. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   43:42I would concur with that. I mean these are the size of an apartment. If you want if you if we have exampl This use your effective I'm gonna have apartments suing me saying we can't say impact fee's to apartments either.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   43:52Okay. All right, done. Okay. So I'll move approval with the notation that we can go to twelve hundred square feet.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:00Exactly. Twelve hundred feet if it's an acre or more.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   44:04I just twelve hundred feet.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:05No.

   44:09If I got a twenty five minutes room I've got an example of the right-of-way. That's another house. It could be built right on top of it.

   44:18You don't know what can of worms you're opening up at that size. That is not an ADU.

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   44:24This is our solution to the Lip Local Act. It's better than that.

   44:32Well at least give it a shot. Heck, in another three weeks the legislature might combosh it anyway.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   44:37Yeah, well I you

   44:38know

   44:38I'm the one who pushed for ADUs and this has just been stolen into let's let's just wreck the county. That's my opinion. I don't think it's I'm a very big proponent of ADUs and I've studied them a lot and they're not twelve hundred feet. So you're just getting around You're going around someone building another house.

   Ron Oakley

   44:59The size I think is going to be limited by the cost of the unit. Well I don't think a lot of people have a bigger. They'll try to build what they need rather than more than they need.

   Lisa Yeager

   45:13And I'm sure that it also with HOAs and things like that there might be some health. But on people's land, you know, they're in a big a big lot.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:21If they're on a big lot they can just build another give some land to their kid or

   David Engel

   45:25Madam Clerk.

   45:29me to go sit down, but I'll lay it out there. Perhaps we're focusing on the square footage. Maybe we could cap it. No more. The ADU can't exceed two bedrooms per unit.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:39I'm fine. I yeah. But but I don't want a two bedroom twelve hundred foot? No, I you know what? People will go around that once the walls are bu up. I'm sorry. I I I just will not vote for twelve hundred feet. I just embarrassed just

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   45:52I'm gonna restate my motion. Do I have to? I don't have to. I get a motion in a second.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:58Yeah.

   David Engel

   45:58Period.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   45:59Okay, so we have a motion and a second. Um All in favor?

   Planning Director

   46:06Wait, so just real quick what I've missed. Well what's the motion?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   46:10Twelve hundred We have twelve

   Planning Director

   46:12hundred no acreage. What about this stormwater um infrastructure piece that you guys talked about at the end? Are we keeping that or are we removing that? Um let's go back to that, sorry.

   Lisa Yeager

   46:24Can you go back to that?

   Planning Director

   46:34Yeah, I w I wanna leave that out too.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   46:36Le leave the leave the spill motor part out.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   46:40What wait, what do you say?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   46:42ADUs will be available in the right-of-way. Any size,

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   46:46any lot size.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   46:47Well well the the the issue the issue of whether or not they you

   46:57Whether or not you're in a flood zone or we're s uh have previous flooding is You're not addressing that issue in the ordinance. It an ADU is available where an ADU is, regardless of increasing density and floodplain.

   Unidentified speaker

   47:19And Commissioner Starkey

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   47:21too. There's any Wait, the twelve hundred foot cap, all that does is if someone was to come in to the MAX, it eliminates a bureaucratic step. This is the way I view it. It's eliminating a bureaucratic step to come in, get the special exception, pay the fee for three hundred more additional fees.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   47:41Well why don't we waive the fees for special exceptions if it's an A B U?

   Unidentified speaker

   47:46Yeah.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   47:49What do you think? Nope. What the motion weight is. Mm-hmm.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   47:54Will anyone else take my amendment to the motion?

   48:01What you're gonna have in this county is people coming in and building twelve hundred foot homes on their lots, the one acre lots, and they're gonna With a different intent than what an ADU is. That is what the door you're opening up is.

   48:19D was that good English? Um that's what that's that's the Pandora that you're opening here. I don't think that's what our intent was. Our intent was to provide a um Lower income additional rental space and the ability for someone to have a a parent or someone who's elderly come stay comfortably with them. But

   Lisa Yeager

   48:44what about

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   48:44it wasn't to have a whole family move into your lot in your neighborhood in their own house. That's not an A to

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   48:53These are not inexpensive. I

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   48:56didn't say anything about

   Jack MarianoVice ChairDisputed

   48:57inexpensive.

   49:00When these would these aren't gonna be these are gonna be expensive. So I think

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:08I think when you're up to the size of twelve hundred you the the the neighborhood and the County needs to be able to take a look at it if it's an acre and what that impact is. I don't think you should open the door to twelve hundred feet without any rules Except the setback. Really. That's what you're doing here.

   49:33Please call

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   49:33the

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:34roll. Roll call.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:37District One, Commissioner Oakley.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:39Aye.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:40District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District four, Commissioner Yeager. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:45Aye.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:46District three, Chairman Starkey.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   49:47Nay. Me and I We are on P thirty five. Yes.