PDE-25-7824

Every appearance3 of 3 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 81% of 251 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Oct 3, 2024
   Planning CommissionPC1Consent agendaNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 14:03
   ▶ 14:033m

   Denise

   14:03Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman Planning Commission Members. Denise Hernandez, Planning, Development and Economic Growth Department. We're going to start at item PC one, which is PDE 257824. This is a zoning amendment, Sandarbon, LLC. The request is to continue the item to the October 17th, 2024 Planning Commission meeting at 130 in Newport Ritchie.

   GreyChair

   14:30Okay. Okay, is the applicant present? Anyone here to object? Okay.

   Denise

   14:40Moving on to item PC2, that's PDE 257738, Zoning Amendment, Evans County Line 80 MPUD Master Plan Unit Development. On that item, there are several ex parties for the record, and we will be put sending those to the clerk's office. We have an ex-party from Chris Poole, one from Chris Williams, one from Commissioner Katherine Starkey, and one from from John Moody. If there's any others, because it looks like they're sending separate emails, please let us know. We'll

   15:10just forward them out over to us. On that item, the request is to continue the item to the November 7th, 2024 Planning Commission meeting at 130 in Dade City.

   GreyChair

   15:21Okay, and the applicant present. Anyone here to object? Okay.

   Denise

   15:28Following item is PC three PDE 250018. This is a comprehensive plan amendment, CPA 24, 05, Rural Area 4, and Urban Expansion Area Maps to adjust boundaries. The request is to continue the item to the uh December 12th, 2024. Planning Planning Commission meeting and this one you're actually sitting as a local planning agency. I should have stated that. At one thirty PM in Dane City.

   GreyChair

   15:55Okay. Is the applicant present? Anyone here to object?

   16:02Okay.

   Denise

   16:03And that's the end of your continuances. I'm actually going to move on to the addendum agenda, which is A PC six.

   GreyChair

   16:09I have

   Moody

   16:10a motion. Approved continuances. Move to continue items PC one to the October seventeenth meeting in Newport Ritchie, item PC two to the November seventh meeting in Dade City, and item PC three to the December twelfth meeting in Dade City. Second.

   GreyChair

   16:28Okay, we have a motion and a second, further discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed? Okay.

2. 2Oct 17, 2024
   Planning CommissionAPC13Consent agendaApproved

   Zoning Amendment (Continuance) (Consent) – Sandarben LLC – … in Zoning from a A-C A- C Agricultural District to a … Containing Approximately 92.60 Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation with edits on item 3 regarding the sentences after “Bellamy Bros Boulevard a County-maintained arterial road with approximately 50 feet of right-of-way” would be removed and on item 14 that everything after “SSRRA-2024-00183” would be stricken in the Agenda Memo as stated by Ms.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 43:12
   ▶ 43:1213m

   Denise

   43:12Okay, I think that puts us at APC thirteen.

   Chris Williams

   43:17Oh. Do you

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   43:19wanna hear a full presentation, Chris? Or you just have a question?

   Chris Williams

   43:22I just I just had a comment. I know this was came through as a comp plan. I voted against it then. I wasn't comfortable. I'm still not comfortable, but That's okay. I just wanted to mention that.

   Moody

   43:34Okay. I remember the case too, and there was some discussion over whether this would be five acre lots or ten acre lots and They're five acre lots. Yeah, they're planting five acre

   Denise

   43:45lots.

   Moody

   43:47And were you was it your

   43:50position that they more ought to be ten acre lots or

   Chris Williams

   43:54I mean there's nothing five acres right around there.

   43:59And so I'm I'm just not comfortable plunking five acre lots. In the middle of everything else that's out there. Everything else is Ten, twenty.

   44:12Understood.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   44:17Okay.

   Denise

   44:18And as um as Mr. Williams correctly stated, it did come in for a compliant amendment, and the Board of County Commissioners did approve that compliant amendment on June 4th. um from AG, which is 10 acre lots, to AGR. Um and that's so this is the accompanying zoning for the property. Not sure if you want to hear from the applicant. Uh but what is being proposed is uh eighteen five acre lots on the

   Chris Williams

   44:42property. I did have one question and mentioned being the rural transition or something like that. The rural transition

   Denise

   44:47area.

   Chris Williams

   44:48Okay.

   Denise

   44:48Yeah.

   Chris Williams

   44:50And what's the long term plan for that?

   Denise

   44:53Um, does someone from Planning Services wanna talk about the long-term plan for the rural transition area?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   45:02Victoria Speethos, Planning Development Economic Remove. Uh the rural transition area is to It is what it the title says. It transitions from the suburban nature of the county that exists to the west and south. uh into the northeast rural part of the county. So the without a map, I'll generally describe it. Uh the rural transition area comes almost to US 41 on the West End. It doesn't quite hit 41. Um, and then it comes to the south along State Road 52.

   45:33Uh and then it goes east all the way to Balbellamy Brothers. And maybe it jogs a little bit as it borders that right-of-way. Uh but all of that is to be transitional land use. In other words There are some development types that can enter into the transition area to be close to suburban densities. We've traditionally Uh read that and understood that to be and density is anywhere between one and two. or so dwell units

   46:03per gross acre. Because the suburban density would be res three and the highest or most dense rural density would be res one, according to the comp plan today. So The balance is between one and three at that point. So the rural transition area is intended to have this sort of up to two dwelling unit or so density per acre.

   Connected City

   46:28On that border between the rural and the rural transition. It's closer to that border as opposed to the Bell

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   46:34isn't Bellamy Brothers the the divide.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   46:37Yeah, there's a divide there between rural transition area ones. This is the w yeah. So this would not be the this was not the first property or location within the rural transition area that had The um Was it the AGR classification? Yeah, the AGR classification, rule future land use classification applied to it. There are other areas within the Rural Transition Area that have both AG and AGR. Um And they and they are compatible with the rural transition area.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   47:09Thank you, Terry.

   47:15Cindy, do do you wanna

   Cindy Terrapani

   47:20I'm the applicant. May I say a few words? Correct. Good afternoon, Cindy Terrapani. Uh Terrapani Planning Strategies. I'm located at 128 East Tarpon Avenue in Tarpon Springs, Florida. I am the authorized representative for Sandra Benn, who is the property owner of this site. And you all are all correct. Um the plan amendment did go through this board. I believe we were here in March, and then it went to the Board of County Commissioners. Commissioner Oakley for final approval in June of this year. And some of these same uh issues were discussed both at your hearing

   47:50and at the board hearing. And what they what the board determined um was that uh as uh Mr. Pito stated that AGR and AG, the five-acre lot and the ten acre lot uh D districts or plant categories were both appropriate in the rural transition area. We believe they are too. The plan amendment was approved for five-acre lots. This is a 92-acre site that has very little wetlands, about six uh six-tenths of an acre in two different pieces, so really not any uh major environmental

   48:20issues. And 92 acres and five-acre lots, if approved. We've resulted in a maximum of 18 lots. Um, but we we intend to go through the rural minor rural subdivision process and that limits it to 16 lots. So that's the absolute maximum that we we could by comp plan do 18. We don't intend to do that. We intend to do a maximum of 16 lots, and there are two houses on the property today. So it's really only a net increase of fourteen lots um and we could have done nine under the old under the old plan category. So we think it's

   48:50a reasonable uh request. With regard to the various lot sizes in that rural transition area, there are a wide variety, maybe not immediately adjacent, but there is a pretty wide variety of lot sizes. I think the most important thing that we'll tell you that there was that the rural area folks didn't have a problem with is there were people there at the board hearing. I think some of them might have come to your hearing. I won't swear to that, but for sure at the board hearing there were people from From the northeast rural area, there, some of the activists that are come to all the hearings, and

   49:21they did not object to this case. So I think that um tells you something about it. We also did a wildlife study. We think that there may be gopher tortoises there, but no other listed species, so it's not a major environmental site. Um I think I'll just stop there and see if I can answer any more of your questions. We do appreciate your time today.

   GirardiVice Chair

   49:40Just one question, which is Since we just heard a case where the applicant apparently didn't read all the findings. Um

   49:49Just wanna make sure that you're aware that finding fourteen requires you to improve Johnston Road to a County standards and your clients willing to do that?

   Cindy Terrapani

   49:57Um we're not intending to take access on Johnson Road. We're we already have an access that was uh approved by the county um to Bellamy Brothers with an and it site ha has been approved with that access uh driveway and a driveway that goes all the way through the property that's already been approved for the site.

   GirardiVice Chair

   50:14Well if that's the case then Okay, I'm just reading the findings and this Denise Finding three says their access is also the Johnston Road. So

   Cindy Terrapani

   50:23Yeah, I think there might be some misunderstanding. East of Bellamy Brothers, Johnston Road is a real road. West of Bellamy Brothers, which is where this site is, on the west side of Bellamy, Johnson is a is there is no right of way for Johnson Road. So we will not we don't touch Johnson Road. where our site is located because Johnson Road only exists with right of way east of Bellamy, which we don't touch that. So I think there might have been a misunderstanding. I I didn't to tell you you the truth, with all the craziness of these storms, I didn't catch that either, Mr. Goldstein. But um I I don't I think we

   50:53need to straighten that out.

   GirardiVice Chair

   50:56Sorry.

   51:02So um Denise, if that's accurate, and I have no idea if it is, then Obviously finding three and finding Fourteen.

   51:15Would need to be changed because finding three says they're accessing Johnston Road. Yeah. And fight finding fourteen says they need to improve. Johnston Road to County Standards. So

   Denise

   51:27I don't know if any of our transportation planners want to speak to that, but that is accurate. If they're not gonna be accessing Johnson Road, but we should probably have something stating. That They're not gonna be accessing Johnston Road because Johnston Road is being shown through that property.

   Connected City

   51:43I mean if it doesn't have right of way, that makes sense.

   GirardiVice Chair

   51:45Well I I don't even know how this language I I I'm assuming Liam deferred to our transportation folks when he came up with this

   Moody

   51:54language.

   GirardiVice Chair

   51:54So

   Moody

   51:55And is there any need for like a secondary or emergency access? Yeah.

   Cindy Terrapani

   52:00It's only at most it'd be eighteen lots if we totally maxed out at five units at five acre lots, but we intend to do most sixteen lots. So I don't believe you it triggers a second the need for a second. It does not trigger secondary.

   Connected City

   52:12Okay. What about interconnect requirements um for those lot sizes I assume not? Right.

   GirardiVice Chair

   52:17Well if it's an actual road maybe, but uh what I'm hearing the applicant says it's not an actual road.

   Cindy Terrapani

   52:24East of Bellamy it is, west of Bellamy it is it is really not. I think I ha I'll I need to double check this, but I believe there might be an easement only across Johnson west of Bellamy to other properties, but I'm ninety nine percent sure there's no right.

   52:41And regardless, we don't intend to access it anyway, so

   Denise

   52:47Again, we should have transportation staff that can speak to that because it is showing on mapper that that is a road. west of Thelamine.

   Connected City

   52:57It doesn't mean that's accurate, but it's showing it, right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   53:00Correct.

   53:03Right. Somebody online, Essen or Stacy, somebody wanna speak to that?

   Moody

   53:09Yeah, but When we do substandard road, go ahead.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   53:13Go ahead, Stacey.

   Stacey Burgess

   53:14Yes. Oh, so I'm looking at Pasco Mapper and I'm also looking at the seller records up. And the transportation planner that reviewed this listed it as exempt. So looking at that is telling me that the access will be from Bellamy Brothers Boulevard. Johnson Road is showing up as a private. And typically when we're reviewing these, we tend to um access our collectors or tiers or local roadways.

   Cindy Terrapani

   53:43Thank you. Yeah, I should have mentioned that we do have an exemption both to timing and phasing and to substantive road analysis approved by the county.

   GirardiVice Chair

   53:53Yeah, well that's why it's confusing because findings fourteen says that it's not exempt.

   Cindy Terrapani

   53:58And again, I I only got power back recently just like everybody else. So I I have to say I I missed it too. I I apologize.

   Connected City

   54:05We'll sort of let you off the hook, maybe.

   Denise

   54:07So we will look into finding 14. Um And uh but this was based on the information we received from our transportation staff.

   Cindy Terrapani

   54:19Okay. Okay.

   54:22Any other questions I can answer for?

   Connected City

   54:24So so if

   GirardiVice Chair

   54:25we approve, do we approve as is with that I mean you could approve it with the Modification defining three and fourteen. If that's your desire. I From what our the transportation person said on WebEx, uh it sounds like it was supposed to be exempt. Not sure how they said it's exempt or then targeted memo says it's not exempt, but It is what it is.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   54:52Can't can't you just remove the Ann Johnston Road portion from finding a factory?

   GirardiVice Chair

   54:57Well you also have to move rem remove

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   54:59the second part of one at a time. You take three and just strike through the end.

   GirardiVice Chair

   55:06Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   55:06And then fourteen.

   GirardiVice Chair

   55:07You could strike everything after the first

   55:12Sentence. And fourteen.

   Denise

   55:15Yeah, so on item three, just for the record, it would after it states uh Bellamy Brothers Boulevard County maintained arterial road with approximately 50 feet of right-of-way, it would end there. So period, the rest of it would be removed. And then on item 14, it would um end at when the parents says SSRA or R R A 2024 00183, period, the remain the remainder. Would be stricken.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   55:45Yes.

   Connected City

   55:47Okay. I would um move approval of that with the edits that Ms. Hernandez just mentioned.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   55:53I will second. Okay, motion and a second. Any other discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Night. Thank you very much.

   56:06Thank you.

3. 3Nov 12, 2024
   Board of County CommissionersP79Public hearingApproved

   Zoning Amendment (Continuance) (Regular) – Sandarben LLC – … in Zoning from a A-C A- C Agricultural District to a … Containing Approximately 92.60 Acres

   Approved minutes

   Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:39:14
   ▶ 1:39:1427m

   Madam Clerk

   1:39:14Perfect publication, Tampa Bay Times, September eighteenth, 2024, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

   Liam Devine

   1:39:23Lieume Divine, Planning, Development, and Economic Growth Department. Um P79, just some housekeeping. Um staff has received two ex parte communications for this item from Commissioner Oakley and Commissioner Weightman. Those have been sent to the clerk's office. Um this item was inadvertently um put on the agenda as a regular item. I don't believe we have anybody signed up for public comment. Um So if you would like a presentation, I can certainly go through a presentation. This is PDE 25-7824

   1:39:54in the name of Sambardine LLC. Would the board like a presentation?

   Weightman

   1:39:59Chair. Yeah. I don't have a I'm good with this project, Liam. I am confused you know, I'm a

   1:40:07I I really like to see these minor real subdivisions. um happening. I think they're a great product and value add to Pasco County. And it adds a real quality of life for folks and to have a little piece of property and and and do what they want on it. But I am concerned that within the minor and I learned through this project that I am concerned that through this the the minor rural rules, you know, we we c kind of struggle as a county on how do we do these. But they're capped

   1:40:37at 16 homes on a minor rural subdivision from what I'm told. And I don't know how in the world you You have a hundred acres or two hundred acres and you you can only get sixteen lots out of it. I I don't understand the history if it's arbitrary, I don't know if Karbala's looked into it even further, but as we just hopefully we see more of the right minor rural subdivision projects that that come through that we don't accidentally hurt ourselves in in bringing forth a good good housing product

   1:41:07by some capping sixteen five acre lots or whatever it might be throughout the course of that project. So that's all

   OakleyChair

   1:41:15I think Dave would have something to add.

   David Engel

   1:41:19Uh David Engel, Planning and Economic Development Director. I uh did a little bit of investigation on the 16 lot restriction, you know, cap. And we couldn't find any clear record, but from what I understand it was based on the road improvements. If you had thirty or forty homes, then you have to upgrade to a county standard road cross section. So uh we'll take a look at this and we'll put it on the uh Priority list if you'd like and we'll get back to you.

   Weightman

   1:41:48That would be good because that's part of the the hurdles that when a minor rural comes, these trigger points, right? Like this example that you just cited. We really need to get out of our own way and make, you know, allow these minor rural subdivisions to come to fruition and that way folks aren't discouraged. with bringing that type of product forward. I I think that's what this board we want to see more of throughout the entire county if it's possible. And uh we just kind of work together to get out of our own way sometimes. Thank you. Thank you.

   Mariano

   1:42:18Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes sir. And to add on to add on to that, earlier we heard a presentation that added added property in the uh uh protection zone. All the s all the the long process you had to go through the whole thing. And if I think if you've got a large piece of property, maybe it's five acres, maybe it's less, maybe it's ten. But if someone wants to have a family member one or two add on to it, I think we need to make it easier to do.

   OakleyChair

   1:42:44Uh-huh. Yeah. Well these this is a good rural uh product right here. So the area I live in I don't remember exactly how many total acres it is but there's only about I think there's only about twelve houses but we're all f I think there's one that's actually bought two lots which are on ten but the rest of 'em are all five acre tracks. Makes a very nice rural area to to live in. Yeah. All right, a pleasure

   1:43:14of the board. Uh

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:43:15I do have a question.

   1:43:16Okay, question.

   1:43:17Um is there a plan for multi-use or anything going up Bellamy? Because I know there is further south, so what what is the plan for Bellamy?

   OakleyChair

   1:43:27It's uh this so I don't know.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:43:32Yeah, but the the the Orange Belt Trail is having to deviate from the rail corridor, so I'm just not sure where it's going all around here and people are gonna wanna be able to get there. So just what what's going on here.

   1:43:51You said that.

   Sun Coast

   1:43:55Good afternoon Commissioner. It's Nick Urent, County Engineer. We're talking about Bellamy Brothers north of 52.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:44:01Yeah, I know Clark's project and uh Bellamy in fifty two is putting their trail in to get under the seventy five. Right? Right.

   Sun Coast

   1:44:11That's easy.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:44:16Right,

   Sun Coast

   1:44:18And then we and then a lot of the Vision Road network connecting east to west has not it's all future, it's has not been constructed. But the projects the residential projects along Bellamy Brothers are constructing their portion or dedicating right away to us for construction of their portion of the Vision Roads network that's gonna go east to west. If you're talking about sidewalks on the on Bellamy Brothers Road itself the developers are obligated to construct sidewalks along their frontage. Right. And then we, as part of the, as part of the safety project that we're doing to widen

   1:44:48out the corridor with the paved shoulders and the edge treatments, we'll be installing connected, uh filling the gaps for the sidewalks all the way down to 52. Uh and and we did that because our land development code did not give us the authority to obligate those developers to build sidewalks outside of their frontage. So we're going to be coming along and making sure that there are connected pedestrian facilities to the State Road 52 corridor for all the residential communities that are happening on both east and west sides of the road.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:45:14Okay, so uh so there they are reserving right-of-way along the front of Bellum.

   Sun Coast

   1:45:19Yes, they they're conveying right-of-way consistent with uh our ultimate Vision Road network and the right-of-way footprint in our comp plan.

   OakleyChair

   1:45:25And there'll be some improvements on on Bellamy coming uh widening on both sides of Bellamy to strengthen the shoulders and widen the Bellamy Road to make it safer too. So that's that's coming in twenty seven, I think.

   Sun Coast

   1:45:37Yes. Yeah. We are actively negotiating the design contract. The board already approved our short list and we're in negotiations with our number one cons consultant to get that design contract underway.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:45:45That was my only concern that there was gonna be some way that Someone could get out of their subdivision and head somewhere safely, not in a car.

   Sun Coast

   1:45:54Indeed, I share your concern and we are taking steps to ensure that that possibility will come to fruition.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:46:00It can be a horse I should be able to tell you. But something other than a car.

   1:46:06That one.

   Liam Devine

   1:46:08I would ask before you make a motion if you can at least accept public comment. Because this was a regular item. Okay.

   OakleyChair

   1:46:16Has anyone anyone signed up for public comment? No one

   Madam Clerk

   1:46:19signed

   OakleyChair

   1:46:19up. No one signed up. Anyone in the audience wish to speak to this item?

   Yeager

   1:46:23Yeah, I

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:46:24didn't sign up but

   OakleyChair

   1:46:25Oh you can you can come speak?

   1:46:30Doesn't matter that you signed up or not, you still were allowed chance to speak. Give us your name,

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:46:37address, and if you've been sworn. Daniel Radderman, [address removed]. Yes, I have been sworn. Okay. Thank you. Uh I appreciate the time. I uh own the fifty acres uh just east of the subject property. Um it's a dedicated wetlands, low-lying area, and all of the water from not just the subject property but the surrounding area

   1:47:07west of Bellamy comes flooding into this area when it's when it's um when it's raining. If you've driven through this area recently, you know that are that part of the property, probably about 10 acres, is still flooded. They just removed the last of a stranded vehicle from Milton last week. So it is an area that's known for flooding, as I'm sure you all are aware. Bellamy Brothers was shut down for you know a handful of days post. Um

   1:47:39I was sent something in the mail, I think many of us were, about a proposed site plan uh of the 16 houses. But you'll notice that the they're selling lots right up to Bellamy Brothers uh on the area across from my property. It seems to me that um considering the the grade issue, the westernmost part. Of the subject property is probably on a 2% grade. And if you you start capping that with hard surfaces, houses,

   1:48:10pool decks, driveways, sidewalks, you're not only increasing the velocity of water into that dedicated wetlands area, but also the volume of water. So it seems to me that the way that they propose this, there's no you know water containment uh project. Provisions for this, and there needs to be, because we already know this is an area that's subject to flooding. Um I think just um anecdotally, I think there's an Austin Woods development that's just south of St.

   1:48:40Joe's on Bellamy. I think they did a great job in how they set that development back off of Bellamy. They created burns. Um, you know, for partially for privacy but partially for grade considerations. They have the uh stormwater waste palms beh uh ponds behind those berms. They did a wooden picket fence and I think if um we could propose something like that I think, you know, from a practical standpoint it's

   1:49:10needed, but also from an aesthetic standpoint, I think it'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

   OakleyChair

   1:49:15Thank you.

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:49:23Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members. My name is Cindy Terrapani. I'm the authorized agent for this application. I didn't sign up to speak because I didn't know if there would be any concerns or comments. So I'll just take a few minutes if you don't mind. First of all, Yes, sir, I have been sworn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Um first of all with regard to the rightway, yes it is. We are well aware the Bellamy Brothers is a vision road. We've already um accommodated the new rightway, the additional rightway on the project as we are you know starting to move through more detailed design, although

   1:49:53we're not far into that at this point because we're waiting your hopefully your approval of this. The site plan that is was referenced, um can we turn On the Elmo possible.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   1:50:13Birdie.

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:50:20So just to orient you, on the right side of the screen, that's Bellamy Brothers, that's the roads frontage, and the site is about 92 acres total. We have drawn the site plan to reflect what 16 lots would look like because as uh Commissioner Weightman mentioned, um 16 lots is the maximum number of lots you can do through the minor rural subdivision. As you'll note there's only two lots that front on Bellamy Brothers. We did that specifically so that it would, you know, as people are driving by it would retain the feel of a rural area.

   1:50:50And their road that serves the project goes right through the middle of the site. Generally, that access road has already been designed and approved by the county and we constructed it at this point. Um my client is well aware that he need still needs to go through the minor rural subdivision process and do all the requirements that the county and Swift Mud would require, which would include of course any um stormwater management process uh or design that would be needed. Um Mr. Rotterman that lives directly

   1:51:21across the street, he is correct, the front of his property is a wetland and that wetland is pre- existing, it's there today, it's on his property, it is not on this site. But again, we're well aware we have to go through the rezoning process, the site plan process, and the meet all the construction standards of the county. And I would just remind you also in June of this year, this board uh unanimously approved the plan amendment that went from a 10-acre plan category to a five-acre plan category. This rezoning is now matching that exists exactly. We're going from a 10-acre

   1:51:51zoning district to a five-acre zoning district. what we're requesting. There are two existing homes. on the property today, so it's only 14 new lots. We could have done eight under the old plan category. So you see it's a very de minimis um improvement and we're will certainly follow all this the all the county's requirements for construction as we move forward if you should grant this. Be happy to answer any questions.

   Mariano

   1:52:15Ms. Jim. Yes, sir. How long Going east to west are those back lots. One seven do eleven.

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:52:23Um the back lots, you know I didn't bring the one that has all the dimensions on it. There've gotta be I'm guessing they're probably six hundred feet at least east to west. You're talking about the runs that are ones that are running uh on the very back edge of the property. Yes, sir. I'm guessing six, seven hundred feet just from the proportions of the other lots.

   Mariano

   1:52:43So hearing about the stormwater issues along the side, um and I'm not familiar with the t top topographical aspects of the property, but What would it be if you would be able to take and maybe add ten or twenty feet going off those lots to now they're five ninety or five eighty, move it back a little bit, make them a little bit shorter, and then create more storage up to the front where you could even landscape it better.

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:53:07Well I I think that that's a good idea and I'm certainly not an engineer. I don't don't know all the details of the topography of the site, so I would defer that to when we go through the c the process with the county and let the applicant's engineer work that out with the county as the best way to do that. That that may be the best solution. Um but I think it's appropriate for us to do that through the site planning review process.

   Mariano

   1:53:28Right, but the site was not going to come back to us, but I do want to make sure that it gets looked

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:53:33These are five acre lots though, Commissioner. So you're gonna ha you're not gonna have stormwater ponds required in the in a minor rural subdivision. It it

   OakleyChair

   1:53:44These these are good size lines

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:53:46here.

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:53:47There are s there is a sway along each side of the entrance road driveway. Um running pretty much the whole length of that. And as again That that driveway that starts at Bellamy and runs through the property was designed and then approved by the county and actually constructed. So um if we need to Does that driveway have a culvert underneath it? I don't know the answer to that. I'm not an

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:54:08engineer I'm not

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:54:09an engineer,

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:54:10I'm sorry, Commissioner Yeah. Do we need I don't know do we require coverts like um something like this?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:54:16Mm. I don't necessarily know. I don't know. They can impede normal the normal the historic flow. And so if that would require a culvert, they would have had to have installed one. Yeah. Um But if there's no swale system there I w they wouldn't need focus.

   OakleyChair

   1:54:37Yeah, If that's already been through the regulations on on that being approved by the county, that road they was told 'em then it had to have a covered or not, so

   Cindy Terrapani

   1:54:47Yes, sir. I believe so. I'm sorry, I can't answer that question.

   Mariano

   1:54:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. Can staff pull up on map pages to see if there's any existing flooding there? Do right now.

   1:54:59Yeah, Pasco Mapper, map pages, whatever.

   Mike Carballa

   1:55:01Yeah,

   OakleyChair

   1:55:02we can pull up Haskell Mapper. Yeah, this hadn't been flooded, I don't think. Pretty flip.

   Rick Scott

   1:55:11Can you bring that up?

   OakleyChair

   1:55:42That's not it.

   Mariano

   1:55:55Well I you just had it down below up.

   1:56:00Actually that's that's

   OakleyChair

   1:56:01wetlinaries that where it says A?

   Mariano

   1:56:10Yeah.

   Mike Carballa

   1:56:11Yeah,

   OakleyChair

   1:56:11that

   Mike Carballa

   1:56:11tracks

   OakleyChair

   1:56:12with reserve flooding

   Mike Carballa

   1:56:12during the storm system.

   Mariano

   1:56:13Oh that's what's fine. Pretty close what the gentleman says. Yeah. So now if you take the extra runoff from the roadway going all the way down. If it flows that way.

   OakleyChair

   1:56:26Well I can tell you that on the road there that's that's flowed like that for many, many years. Yeah. Always been there. Yeah. This doesn't necessarily change that.

   Mariano

   1:56:43Does the water ever get toppled over? Does the roadway?

   OakleyChair

   1:56:46Oh it's uh I think it's sometimes but it recedes fairly quickly, I think.

   Yeager

   1:56:52If we add more to that, we'll s I said I'm just concerned if we add more to that, will it recede quickly?

   OakleyChair

   1:56:58North of it.

   Yeager

   1:56:59No, I said if if we add more.

   1:57:03Well, why

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:04would we be why would they be anything more?

   OakleyChair

   1:57:07It's on the outside of the land, but it's

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:09not

   OakleyChair

   1:57:09that's you've had one of the you've had a two hundred year storm and it's it's basically where where they're showing, so

   Mariano

   1:57:22So that shows on both sides of the road.

   Mike Carballa

   1:57:25Yeah, that was from the El Nino of O three. We do actually have some aerials that we shot after the storm. I don't know if we can add it as layers in place. Can

   Mariano

   1:57:38you throw the topist to topo out? Twenty twenty

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:40four is gonna be interesting when we

   Mariano

   1:57:41look at those.

   OakleyChair

   1:57:462024 and stuff

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:57:58Well if they could get another ten feet across the front there that would be helpful. Shown on that map.

   1:58:04Make the swell bigger.

   1:58:08But I'm no engineer.

   OakleyChair

   1:58:11Just give us a second.

   1:58:42Very good.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:58:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yeah.

   1:58:55You have as the as the applicant has pointed out to you, you've changed the comprehensive plan that this is the o this is really the only appropriate zoning classification that Can go here.

   1:59:11So if Uh

   StarkeyVice Chair

   1:59:16I think the question j just is if we put Yeah,

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:59:25Okay. So th th this is Euclidean zoning, so you can't condition it. Um you can express your concerns to the applicant. Um

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:59:45I have the I have a quick follow-up question. Did I understand that there does not

   OakleyChair

   1:59:52Have you already spoken?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:59:53Yes. These are that that was your only speaker.

   OakleyChair

   1:59:58I just

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:59:59wanted

   OakleyChair

   1:59:59to

   1:59:59wanted clarification. I've got to give you a name and all again because you've left and then come back. So give me your name again.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:00:05Daniel Radderman, [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Okay, did I understand it correctly that there does not need to be any stormwater engineering considerations with a development of this size then with the density I guess? High cultural zone.

   Cindy Terrapani

   2:00:27No, that's not.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:00:28You don't require that in agriculture as a right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:00:33I you need to have somebody from your stormwater department answer the question. Yeah,

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:00:37that's what was confusing to me. I just I didn't know if I misunderstood that or

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:00:42my comment was that that a five these were five acre lots, so they traditionally would not require Any addition Based on our code, they wouldn't require any additional stormwater pond ponds. They're designed to absorb

   2:01:04Yeah. Our large lot development doesn't require the that addition the the same sort of stormwater ponding, but the planning staff should be answering these questions.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:01:13Okay, yeah. Because if not we've got a big we've got a big problem then with the stormwater. I got a five acre track. I don't

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   2:01:20have to put stormwater on mine. Okay, Brad. I was gonna let this play out and see where it went. That was interesting. Uh Brad Tippen, uh playing Development Economic Growth. Um uh Yes, you're you're correct that this is a you know these five-acre lots typically are considered de minimis in these subdivisions that are minor rural subdivisions. There are some stormwater considerations that are taken into effect, mainly regarding the amount of impervious that is installed, uh can trigger some of the swift bud requirements. Um so we have to

   2:01:50we have to take all those different things into account. But at this particular phase, we do not have a plan in front. front of us. We we don't have any way to look at anything to say that this is going to require something or not require something. Uh this is a straight rezoning as uh uh the county attorney said that there's no way to condition it to require extra things at this point.

   OakleyChair

   2:02:08Okay.

   Mariano

   2:02:09So thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes sir. So look at look at the topo. From the back part of the lot is as high as 130, goes down to 125, 120, 115, 110, 105, 100. That roadway going all the way in? It's going straight in. Everything that gets run off on that roadway all the way down is gonna go back to that down to that low spot. It's gonna be it's gonna make it worse. On that land it always has. I I know, but now we're gonna make it worse by putting worse all the way down.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:02:40They're not

   Mariano

   2:02:41is that a paved road.

   OakleyChair

   2:02:42He's not changed. That's been a paved road. That's a paved road. Nice. We're not making it worse, we're just changing the

   Mariano

   2:02:49size of the watch here.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   2:02:50Right.

   Mariano

   2:02:51And again, I'm happy with what what I see, but it is a concern when I see the flooding right along the roadway.

   OakleyChair

   2:02:57Well I understand but that's on everybody's minds about flooding and these kind of properties are not creating that. I mean the world receives rain and the type of rural areas, water moves, the low areas off hills and where they are you have ponding on different properties all over the county based on the fact that you have hills and we're we're in a country where we have a lot of rolling hills. Not a lot of people come to Florida think that it's flat, but it's not

   2:03:27it's not flat. Well not a real

   Mariano

   2:03:31My concern is this, we're building a road we have a roadway, road that's there. It's already there. And I'm I'm thinking, you know, when I when I look at places like at Oak Ridge down by Trinity, that area's after all the flooding going to Trinity Oaks, but because of the channeling that they have Oak Bridge doesn't flood. Never see them in the map because they've got the channeling in there. So Mr. County Attorney, is there a way we can ask, even though it's Euclidean zoning, for staff to work with the applicant to try to put in some type of channeling

   2:04:02there to to control some of that water? You can

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   2:04:05always ask. Okay. I don't know whether you can require, but you can always ask.

   2:04:12We need uh

   OakleyChair

   2:04:13we need so.

   Yeager

   2:04:15I need I support your asking.

   OakleyChair

   2:04:19Okay. Pleasure

   Mariano

   2:04:20of the board on this item. So we have an ask.

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:04:22I'll uh move for approval.

   Mariano

   2:04:23Um could I get my ask in first, please?

   StarkeyVice Chair

   2:04:25Oh, sorry. he asked for something.

   Mariano

   2:04:31whole second. The five acre sites, right? But I'm concerned, and I think your people might be as well, if we can prevent as much water going the roadway on big storm events to go in there. Would you be willing to work with us to try to create some type of channelization or some type of holding of the water to store a little bit more on the line the edge?

   Cindy Terrapani

   2:04:50Well, my client unfortunately is not here, so I can't make a commitment one way or another. What I can say, knowing knowing him, knowing the property owner, is that We will go through the county process for the minor rural subdivision, and is there something that we can do on that deals with the water on our site, we will certainly consider that. We cannot fix the problem that exists today. There is a lot of water that goes into Mr. Roderman's property that goes into his wetlands today. It has absolutely nothing to do with my client's property, or frankly, it's just a historic situation. So we can't

   2:05:21fix that. So If you're asking us to fix the whole world's problem with Mr. Roderman, no, I don't think we can do that. But if we can look at something that that is a simple solution that would help with the water on our site, we would look at that.

   OakleyChair

   2:05:34I'd appreciate that.

   Cindy Terrapani

   2:05:35That's understood. Thank you so much or

   OakleyChair

   2:05:36to have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed by zero. Move back to uh regular items.

   2:05:52Environment.

   2:05:59Five room.