Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Sandarben LLC – Change in Zoning from a A- C Agricultural District to a AR-5 Agricultural-Residential District – North Central Pasco County – Northwest Corner of Bellamy Bros Boulevard and Johnston Road – Containing Approximately 92.60 Acres

1:39:14Perfect publication, Tampa Bay Times, September eighteenth, 2024, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

1:39:23Lieume Divine, Planning, Development, and Economic Growth Department. Um P79, just some housekeeping. Um staff has received two ex parte communications for this item from Commissioner Oakley and Commissioner Weightman. Those have been sent to the clerk's office. Um this item was inadvertently um put on the agenda as a regular item. I don't believe we have anybody signed up for public comment. Um So if you would like a presentation, I can certainly go through a presentation. This is PDE 25-7824

1:39:54in the name of Sambardine LLC. Would the board like a presentation?

1:39:59Chair. Yeah. I don't have a I'm good with this project, Liam. I am confused you know, I'm a

1:40:07I I really like to see these minor real subdivisions. um happening. I think they're a great product and value add to Pasco County. And it adds a real quality of life for folks and to have a little piece of property and and and do what they want on it. But I am concerned that within the minor and I learned through this project that I am concerned that through this the the minor rural rules, you know, we we c kind of struggle as a county on how do we do these. But they're capped

1:40:37at 16 homes on a minor rural subdivision from what I'm told. And I don't know how in the world you You have a hundred acres or two hundred acres and you you can only get sixteen lots out of it. I I don't understand the history if it's arbitrary, I don't know if Karbala's looked into it even further, but as we just hopefully we see more of the right minor rural subdivision projects that that come through that we don't accidentally hurt ourselves in in bringing forth a good good housing product

1:41:07by some capping sixteen five acre lots or whatever it might be throughout the course of that project. So that's all

1:41:15I think Dave would have something to add.

1:41:19Uh David Engel, Planning and Economic Development Director. I uh did a little bit of investigation on the 16 lot restriction, you know, cap. And we couldn't find any clear record, but from what I understand it was based on the road improvements. If you had thirty or forty homes, then you have to upgrade to a county standard road cross section. So uh we'll take a look at this and we'll put it on the uh Priority list if you'd like and we'll get back to you.

1:41:48That would be good because that's part of the the hurdles that when a minor rural comes, these trigger points, right? Like this example that you just cited. We really need to get out of our own way and make, you know, allow these minor rural subdivisions to come to fruition and that way folks aren't discouraged. with bringing that type of product forward. I I think that's what this board we want to see more of throughout the entire county if it's possible. And uh we just kind of work together to get out of our own way sometimes. Thank you. Thank you.

1:42:18Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes sir. And to add on to add on to that, earlier we heard a presentation that added added property in the uh uh protection zone. All the s all the the long process you had to go through the whole thing. And if I think if you've got a large piece of property, maybe it's five acres, maybe it's less, maybe it's ten. But if someone wants to have a family member one or two add on to it, I think we need to make it easier to do.

1:42:44Uh-huh. Yeah. Well these this is a good rural uh product right here. So the area I live in I don't remember exactly how many total acres it is but there's only about I think there's only about twelve houses but we're all f I think there's one that's actually bought two lots which are on ten but the rest of 'em are all five acre tracks. Makes a very nice rural area to to live in. Yeah. All right, a pleasure

1:43:14of the board. Uh

1:43:15I do have a question.

1:43:16Okay, question.

1:43:17Um is there a plan for multi-use or anything going up Bellamy? Because I know there is further south, so what what is the plan for Bellamy?

1:43:27It's uh this so I don't know.

1:43:32Yeah, but the the the Orange Belt Trail is having to deviate from the rail corridor, so I'm just not sure where it's going all around here and people are gonna wanna be able to get there. So just what what's going on here.

1:43:51You said that.

1:43:55Good afternoon Commissioner. It's Nick Urent, County Engineer. We're talking about Bellamy Brothers north of 52.

1:44:01Yeah, I know Clark's project and uh Bellamy in fifty two is putting their trail in to get under the seventy five. Right? Right.

1:44:11That's easy.

1:44:16Right,

1:44:18And then we and then a lot of the Vision Road network connecting east to west has not it's all future, it's has not been constructed. But the projects the residential projects along Bellamy Brothers are constructing their portion or dedicating right away to us for construction of their portion of the Vision Roads network that's gonna go east to west. If you're talking about sidewalks on the on Bellamy Brothers Road itself the developers are obligated to construct sidewalks along their frontage. Right. And then we, as part of the, as part of the safety project that we're doing to widen

1:44:48out the corridor with the paved shoulders and the edge treatments, we'll be installing connected, uh filling the gaps for the sidewalks all the way down to 52. Uh and and we did that because our land development code did not give us the authority to obligate those developers to build sidewalks outside of their frontage. So we're going to be coming along and making sure that there are connected pedestrian facilities to the State Road 52 corridor for all the residential communities that are happening on both east and west sides of the road.

1:45:14Okay, so uh so there they are reserving right-of-way along the front of Bellum.

1:45:19Yes, they they're conveying right-of-way consistent with uh our ultimate Vision Road network and the right-of-way footprint in our comp plan.

1:45:25And there'll be some improvements on on Bellamy coming uh widening on both sides of Bellamy to strengthen the shoulders and widen the Bellamy Road to make it safer too. So that's that's coming in twenty seven, I think.

1:45:37Yes. Yeah. We are actively negotiating the design contract. The board already approved our short list and we're in negotiations with our number one cons consultant to get that design contract underway.

1:45:45That was my only concern that there was gonna be some way that Someone could get out of their subdivision and head somewhere safely, not in a car.

1:45:54Indeed, I share your concern and we are taking steps to ensure that that possibility will come to fruition.

1:46:00It can be a horse I should be able to tell you. But something other than a car.

1:46:06That one.

1:46:08I would ask before you make a motion if you can at least accept public comment. Because this was a regular item. Okay.

1:46:16Has anyone anyone signed up for public comment? No one

1:46:19signed

1:46:19up. No one signed up. Anyone in the audience wish to speak to this item?

1:46:23Yeah, I

1:46:24didn't sign up but

1:46:25Oh you can you can come speak?

1:46:30Doesn't matter that you signed up or not, you still were allowed chance to speak. Give us your name,

1:46:37address, and if you've been sworn. Daniel Radderman, [address removed]. Yes, I have been sworn. Okay. Thank you. Uh I appreciate the time. I uh own the fifty acres uh just east of the subject property. Um it's a dedicated wetlands, low-lying area, and all of the water from not just the subject property but the surrounding area

1:47:07west of Bellamy comes flooding into this area when it's when it's um when it's raining. If you've driven through this area recently, you know that are that part of the property, probably about 10 acres, is still flooded. They just removed the last of a stranded vehicle from Milton last week. So it is an area that's known for flooding, as I'm sure you all are aware. Bellamy Brothers was shut down for you know a handful of days post. Um

1:47:39I was sent something in the mail, I think many of us were, about a proposed site plan uh of the 16 houses. But you'll notice that the they're selling lots right up to Bellamy Brothers uh on the area across from my property. It seems to me that um considering the the grade issue, the westernmost part. Of the subject property is probably on a 2% grade. And if you you start capping that with hard surfaces, houses,

1:48:10pool decks, driveways, sidewalks, you're not only increasing the velocity of water into that dedicated wetlands area, but also the volume of water. So it seems to me that the way that they propose this, there's no you know water containment uh project. Provisions for this, and there needs to be, because we already know this is an area that's subject to flooding. Um I think just um anecdotally, I think there's an Austin Woods development that's just south of St.

1:48:40Joe's on Bellamy. I think they did a great job in how they set that development back off of Bellamy. They created burns. Um, you know, for partially for privacy but partially for grade considerations. They have the uh stormwater waste palms beh uh ponds behind those berms. They did a wooden picket fence and I think if um we could propose something like that I think, you know, from a practical standpoint it's

1:49:10needed, but also from an aesthetic standpoint, I think it'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

1:49:15Thank you.

1:49:23Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members. My name is Cindy Terrapani. I'm the authorized agent for this application. I didn't sign up to speak because I didn't know if there would be any concerns or comments. So I'll just take a few minutes if you don't mind. First of all, Yes, sir, I have been sworn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Um first of all with regard to the rightway, yes it is. We are well aware the Bellamy Brothers is a vision road. We've already um accommodated the new rightway, the additional rightway on the project as we are you know starting to move through more detailed design, although

1:49:53we're not far into that at this point because we're waiting your hopefully your approval of this. The site plan that is was referenced, um can we turn On the Elmo possible.

1:50:13Birdie.

1:50:20So just to orient you, on the right side of the screen, that's Bellamy Brothers, that's the roads frontage, and the site is about 92 acres total. We have drawn the site plan to reflect what 16 lots would look like because as uh Commissioner Weightman mentioned, um 16 lots is the maximum number of lots you can do through the minor rural subdivision. As you'll note there's only two lots that front on Bellamy Brothers. We did that specifically so that it would, you know, as people are driving by it would retain the feel of a rural area.

1:50:50And their road that serves the project goes right through the middle of the site. Generally, that access road has already been designed and approved by the county and we constructed it at this point. Um my client is well aware that he need still needs to go through the minor rural subdivision process and do all the requirements that the county and Swift Mud would require, which would include of course any um stormwater management process uh or design that would be needed. Um Mr. Rotterman that lives directly

1:51:21across the street, he is correct, the front of his property is a wetland and that wetland is pre- existing, it's there today, it's on his property, it is not on this site. But again, we're well aware we have to go through the rezoning process, the site plan process, and the meet all the construction standards of the county. And I would just remind you also in June of this year, this board uh unanimously approved the plan amendment that went from a 10-acre plan category to a five-acre plan category. This rezoning is now matching that exists exactly. We're going from a 10-acre

1:51:51zoning district to a five-acre zoning district. what we're requesting. There are two existing homes. on the property today, so it's only 14 new lots. We could have done eight under the old plan category. So you see it's a very de minimis um improvement and we're will certainly follow all this the all the county's requirements for construction as we move forward if you should grant this. Be happy to answer any questions.

1:52:15Ms. Jim. Yes, sir. How long Going east to west are those back lots. One seven do eleven.

1:52:23Um the back lots, you know I didn't bring the one that has all the dimensions on it. There've gotta be I'm guessing they're probably six hundred feet at least east to west. You're talking about the runs that are ones that are running uh on the very back edge of the property. Yes, sir. I'm guessing six, seven hundred feet just from the proportions of the other lots.

1:52:43So hearing about the stormwater issues along the side, um and I'm not familiar with the t top topographical aspects of the property, but What would it be if you would be able to take and maybe add ten or twenty feet going off those lots to now they're five ninety or five eighty, move it back a little bit, make them a little bit shorter, and then create more storage up to the front where you could even landscape it better.

1:53:07Well I I think that that's a good idea and I'm certainly not an engineer. I don't don't know all the details of the topography of the site, so I would defer that to when we go through the c the process with the county and let the applicant's engineer work that out with the county as the best way to do that. That that may be the best solution. Um but I think it's appropriate for us to do that through the site planning review process.

1:53:28Right, but the site was not going to come back to us, but I do want to make sure that it gets looked

1:53:33These are five acre lots though, Commissioner. So you're gonna ha you're not gonna have stormwater ponds required in the in a minor rural subdivision. It it

1:53:44These these are good size lines

1:53:46here.

1:53:47There are s there is a sway along each side of the entrance road driveway. Um running pretty much the whole length of that. And as again That that driveway that starts at Bellamy and runs through the property was designed and then approved by the county and actually constructed. So um if we need to Does that driveway have a culvert underneath it? I don't know the answer to that. I'm not an

1:54:08engineer I'm not

1:54:09an engineer,

1:54:10I'm sorry, Commissioner Yeah. Do we need I don't know do we require coverts like um something like this?

1:54:16Mm. I don't necessarily know. I don't know. They can impede normal the normal the historic flow. And so if that would require a culvert, they would have had to have installed one. Yeah. Um But if there's no swale system there I w they wouldn't need focus.

1:54:37Yeah, If that's already been through the regulations on on that being approved by the county, that road they was told 'em then it had to have a covered or not, so

1:54:47Yes, sir. I believe so. I'm sorry, I can't answer that question.

1:54:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. Can staff pull up on map pages to see if there's any existing flooding there? Do right now.

1:54:59Yeah, Pasco Mapper, map pages, whatever.

1:55:01Yeah,

1:55:02we can pull up Haskell Mapper. Yeah, this hadn't been flooded, I don't think. Pretty flip.

1:55:11Can you bring that up?

1:55:42That's not it.

1:55:55Well I you just had it down below up.

1:56:00Actually that's that's

1:56:01wetlinaries that where it says A?

1:56:10Yeah.

1:56:11Yeah,

1:56:11that

1:56:11tracks

1:56:12with reserve flooding

1:56:12during the storm system.

1:56:13Oh that's what's fine. Pretty close what the gentleman says. Yeah. So now if you take the extra runoff from the roadway going all the way down. If it flows that way.

1:56:26Well I can tell you that on the road there that's that's flowed like that for many, many years. Yeah. Always been there. Yeah. This doesn't necessarily change that.

1:56:43Does the water ever get toppled over? Does the roadway?

1:56:46Oh it's uh I think it's sometimes but it recedes fairly quickly, I think.

1:56:52If we add more to that, we'll s I said I'm just concerned if we add more to that, will it recede quickly?

1:56:58North of it.

1:56:59No, I said if if we add more.

1:57:03Well, why

1:57:04would we be why would they be anything more?

1:57:07It's on the outside of the land, but it's

1:57:09not

1:57:09that's you've had one of the you've had a two hundred year storm and it's it's basically where where they're showing, so

1:57:22So that shows on both sides of the road.

1:57:25Yeah, that was from the El Nino of O three. We do actually have some aerials that we shot after the storm. I don't know if we can add it as layers in place. Can

1:57:38you throw the topist to topo out? Twenty twenty

1:57:40four is gonna be interesting when we

1:57:41look at those.

1:57:462024 and stuff

1:57:58Well if they could get another ten feet across the front there that would be helpful. Shown on that map.

1:58:04Make the swell bigger.

1:58:08But I'm no engineer.

1:58:11Just give us a second.

1:58:42Very good.

1:58:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yeah.

1:58:55You have as the as the applicant has pointed out to you, you've changed the comprehensive plan that this is the o this is really the only appropriate zoning classification that Can go here.

1:59:11So if Uh

1:59:16I think the question j just is if we put Yeah,

1:59:25Okay. So th th this is Euclidean zoning, so you can't condition it. Um you can express your concerns to the applicant. Um

1:59:45I have the I have a quick follow-up question. Did I understand that there does not

1:59:52Have you already spoken?

1:59:53Yes. These are that that was your only speaker.

1:59:58I just

1:59:59wanted

1:59:59to

1:59:59wanted clarification. I've got to give you a name and all again because you've left and then come back. So give me your name again.

2:00:05Daniel Radderman, [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Okay, did I understand it correctly that there does not need to be any stormwater engineering considerations with a development of this size then with the density I guess? High cultural zone.

2:00:27No, that's not.

2:00:28You don't require that in agriculture as a right?

2:00:33I you need to have somebody from your stormwater department answer the question. Yeah,

2:00:37that's what was confusing to me. I just I didn't know if I misunderstood that or

2:00:42my comment was that that a five these were five acre lots, so they traditionally would not require Any addition Based on our code, they wouldn't require any additional stormwater pond ponds. They're designed to absorb

2:01:04Yeah. Our large lot development doesn't require the that addition the the same sort of stormwater ponding, but the planning staff should be answering these questions.

2:01:13Okay, yeah. Because if not we've got a big we've got a big problem then with the stormwater. I got a five acre track. I don't

2:01:20have to put stormwater on mine. Okay, Brad. I was gonna let this play out and see where it went. That was interesting. Uh Brad Tippen, uh playing Development Economic Growth. Um uh Yes, you're you're correct that this is a you know these five-acre lots typically are considered de minimis in these subdivisions that are minor rural subdivisions. There are some stormwater considerations that are taken into effect, mainly regarding the amount of impervious that is installed, uh can trigger some of the swift bud requirements. Um so we have to

2:01:50we have to take all those different things into account. But at this particular phase, we do not have a plan in front. front of us. We we don't have any way to look at anything to say that this is going to require something or not require something. Uh this is a straight rezoning as uh uh the county attorney said that there's no way to condition it to require extra things at this point.

2:02:08Okay.

2:02:09So thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes sir. So look at look at the topo. From the back part of the lot is as high as 130, goes down to 125, 120, 115, 110, 105, 100. That roadway going all the way in? It's going straight in. Everything that gets run off on that roadway all the way down is gonna go back to that down to that low spot. It's gonna be it's gonna make it worse. On that land it always has. I I know, but now we're gonna make it worse by putting worse all the way down.

2:02:40They're not

2:02:41is that a paved road.

2:02:42He's not changed. That's been a paved road. That's a paved road. Nice. We're not making it worse, we're just changing the

2:02:49size of the watch here.

2:02:50Right.

2:02:51And again, I'm happy with what what I see, but it is a concern when I see the flooding right along the roadway.

2:02:57Well I understand but that's on everybody's minds about flooding and these kind of properties are not creating that. I mean the world receives rain and the type of rural areas, water moves, the low areas off hills and where they are you have ponding on different properties all over the county based on the fact that you have hills and we're we're in a country where we have a lot of rolling hills. Not a lot of people come to Florida think that it's flat, but it's not

2:03:27it's not flat. Well not a real

2:03:31My concern is this, we're building a road we have a roadway, road that's there. It's already there. And I'm I'm thinking, you know, when I when I look at places like at Oak Ridge down by Trinity, that area's after all the flooding going to Trinity Oaks, but because of the channeling that they have Oak Bridge doesn't flood. Never see them in the map because they've got the channeling in there. So Mr. County Attorney, is there a way we can ask, even though it's Euclidean zoning, for staff to work with the applicant to try to put in some type of channeling

2:04:02there to to control some of that water? You can

2:04:05always ask. Okay. I don't know whether you can require, but you can always ask.

2:04:12We need uh

2:04:13we need so.

2:04:15I need I support your asking.

2:04:19Okay. Pleasure

2:04:20of the board on this item. So we have an ask.

2:04:22I'll uh move for approval.

2:04:23Um could I get my ask in first, please?

2:04:25Oh, sorry. he asked for something.

2:04:31whole second. The five acre sites, right? But I'm concerned, and I think your people might be as well, if we can prevent as much water going the roadway on big storm events to go in there. Would you be willing to work with us to try to create some type of channelization or some type of holding of the water to store a little bit more on the line the edge?

2:04:50Well, my client unfortunately is not here, so I can't make a commitment one way or another. What I can say, knowing knowing him, knowing the property owner, is that We will go through the county process for the minor rural subdivision, and is there something that we can do on that deals with the water on our site, we will certainly consider that. We cannot fix the problem that exists today. There is a lot of water that goes into Mr. Roderman's property that goes into his wetlands today. It has absolutely nothing to do with my client's property, or frankly, it's just a historic situation. So we can't

2:05:21fix that. So If you're asking us to fix the whole world's problem with Mr. Roderman, no, I don't think we can do that. But if we can look at something that that is a simple solution that would help with the water on our site, we would look at that.

2:05:34I'd appreciate that.

2:05:35That's understood. Thank you so much or

2:05:36to have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed by zero. Move back to uh regular items.

2:05:52Environment.

2:05:59Five room.