PEG-24-7790

Published agenda

2 appearances between Jun 20, 2024 and Aug 21, 2024, at 2 boards.

No final outcomeThe minutes show no disposition for any appearance of this case. That is a gap in the record, not a decision.

Official title

Multiple-Family High Density District – Northwest Pasco County – Southeast Corner of the Intersection of Lakeshore Boulevard, Dallas Drive, and Community Court, Approximately 650 Feet West of Fivay Road – Containing Approximately 19.98 Acres

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Jun 20, 2024 → Aug 21, 2024 · click a mark to jump to that appearance

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TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 77% of 210 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 2 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1Jun 20, 2024
Planning CommissionMF3Consent agendaNo disposition in the minutes
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30m
Liam Devine
Okay. Good afternoon. I hope so. Liam Divine Planning and Economic Growth Department. Um this is PC five. Let me go back one. Um P-E-G 24-7790 in the name of Bayonet Land L L Cay Gardens. It is a Euclidean zoning amendment from M F One, multifamily medium density district in rezoning to MF3 multifamily high density district. The future land use classification is REST 24
under the comprehensive plan, and the applicant proposes to develop the property of the 294 multifamily age-restricted Dwelling units with 50% of the units being set aside for those incomes of eighty percent or less AMI in conformance with the MF3 multifamily high density district standards. And the subject site location is on the southwest corner of the intersection of Lakeshore Boulevard and Dallas Drive and Community Court, approximately 600 feet
west of 5A Road.
The site is located in the West Market area in the Surban um urban service area.
Here is our context map. Of the area?
Here is our zoomed in aerial.
And our surrounding future land use to the north is ROR, Res 6, and Res 24, to the east is Res 6 and Res 24, to the south is Res 6, and to the west is ROR and Res 6.
The surrounding zoning is PUD and MF3 to the north, to the east is PUD, MF3, and PO2, to the south is AC, PUD, and to the west is MF1 and MF2.
The subject site is undeveloped on approximately 19.98 acres. Access to the property is from Lakeshore Boulevard and Dallas Drive. And the subject site is located um 660 feet west of a um planned conceptual trail along 5A. And this is coming with recommendation for approval with deed restrictions as provided in your agenda packet. I'm gonna list some of the deed restrictions. Um there will be a maximum of 294 multifamily
dwelling units. There shall be 147 affordable dwelling units set aside for those incomes of 80% or less. There shall be 114 age-restricted, 55 plus dwelling units. Um the 180 units that are non-age restricted.
shall be a minimum four stories in height, and all age-restricted dwelling units shall comply with LDC section 1302.1 D. Um and it also includes the live local um restriction for um
Tax exemption as well. And again, this is coming with recommendation approval from Planning and Economic Growth Department. I'm here if you have any questions.
Charles GreyChair
Okay, anybody have questions?
Denise
And Planning Commission members, just to add to Liam's fabulous presentation, that those deed restrictions are basically in order to comply with the sub-area policy for Bayonet Gardens, which is flu policy 7.1.73.
Liam Devine
Thank you, Denise.
Jon Moody
Does the sub-area policy Include the minimum height.
Liam Devine
No, so where that minimum height is coming from is actually coming from the timing and phasing and trip generation. So I believe they're around a little less than 1200 daily trips. So by doing mid-rise instead of low rise, um it actually reduces the number of tricks trips. So if they did low rise under the ITE code, um they would generate more than twelve hundred daily trips and would trigger an MPUD rezoning
Unidentified speaker
Okay,
Jon Moody
no key.
Unidentified speaker
Do
Liam Devine
you have an explanation for that
Connected City
why the height of the building would affect traffic?
Liam Devine
So I'm not a transportation planner or expertise. I'm sure somebody is here who can answer that, but that is coming from your ITE code.
Connected City
I mean when you have to leave you have to leave but DoorDash.
Jon Moody
Yeah. Well, is there a transportation person that's going to be a good thing?
Denise
Yes, we have several folks online. I don't know um and and they're all elevated in order to speak, so whoever would like to speak on this item, just unmute yourself and please explain.
Unidentified speakerVoice A
Source. Yeah.
Stacey Burgess
Good afternoon. This is Stacy Burgess with Development review department. Um can you rephrase your question again? I do have the information up in front of me. What was your question?
Jon Moody
I think Liam Stacy, this is John Moody, I think Liam answered the question. I do have one question out of curiosity. the ITE category that Allows or reduces traffic for higher Rise apartments. How old is that study?
Stacey Burgess
Is study
Jon Moody
let's when does the ITE manual say the studies were conducted?
And where
Stacey Burgess
Yeah, let me see.
Right, you study You're not you're not referring to the um Oldest. the online ITE, you're you're referring to what the applicant has provided. I don't
Jon Moody
know. In the ITE manual they generally tell you that the rates were established based on X many number of studies conducted during these years in these locations.
Stacey Burgess
Got it. So what I could do is if you guys can come back to me, I can load up on there because I'm here in the study, but I would have to go back online and I can get that information for you and just kind of come back to me with that. Sounds good. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you so much.
Charles GreyChair
Any other questions? If not the applicant present.
What
Thank you. Shelley Johnson, 6400 Madison Street, and I have been sworn. Um yeah, we are in agreement with obviously the deed restrictions and all of the additional things that they've included in those deed restrictions because it is a Euclidean. Um we have been at work at this for a while. We do have that sub-area policy that's applicable and it is in compliance with that. So but we are here, my client is here and we're happy to answer any questions.
Jon Moody
Shelley, can you just help me clarify?
What
Sure.
Jon Moody
A couple of things. I'm trying to figure out the math. Here. It's a hundred and forty seven affordable dwelling units for income at or below eighty percent AMI. A minimum of a hundred and fourteen age restricted, fifty five years age or older, and then a The 180 that are non-age restricted, 55 age or older shall be a minimum of four stories in height. But there's only three hundred or two hundred and ninety-four units.
I'm trying to understand.
What
Okay, yeah, I was gonna answer that as well.
Liam Devine
Sorry, yes, because you can have some that are age restricted and affordable. Um
Jon Moody
Okay, so I think you might have just answered my next question, and that is going to be are the fifty-five years of age or older reserved for elderly or older people, 'cause I'm older than fifty five. Um eighty percent of AMI.
I think you just answered the question. So not all of the age restricted units are for eighty percent AMI.
Liam Devine
Correct. So potentially you could ha you would have 104 and but uh hypothetically I don't know what that exact unit count and I I don't even know if the applicant would know that at this point, but you you could potentially have Um
Connected City
Just as they are.
Liam Devine
Uh you you would not don't speak from the floor, can't get that on the record.
eighty percent or less, some of them could be age restricted, some don't, and then they could potentially have market rate apartments as there as well. Okay.
Charles GreyChair
Thanks. All right.
Okay.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Anything else for the applicant?
Charles GreyChair
Okay.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Is that the follow up on Mr. Moody's question, let me just ask the applicant. In reality, are you just gonna be building one building that's at least four stories that's gonna have all of it in it.
What
Um that I don't know. So I would have to ask my clients to come up to answer that question. But um and it will all be affordable even though you know our LUM allows us to have a little bit that's non-affordable in market rate. So it may end up that way.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Are you really just looking to build one building that's got all of these units or are you gonna multiple buildings?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Sean Smith, 19409 Blue Pond Drive. I'm work for McDowell Housing Partners. Uh so we've already submitted uh site plan application. We'll be following up with building permit application for the phase one. This is gonna be done in three phases. So phase one is 114 units. It's uh will be all senior, 55 plus, all affordable, 100% at 60% AMI or below. Um and so and then phase two. Will be somewhere
between 100 and 180 units. And then if we do a phase, a third phase. it would be to, you know, to get to the two ninety-four. But as of right now it's a minimum of two phases and possibly a third.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Okay, so you are building three different buildings then?
Jon Moody
Yes sir. Okay. Are you saying that Ultimately, regardless of what the approval but ultimately all of them will be affordable.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
That is our that is our game plan. Yes, sir. I mean that's that's primarily our business is uh doing workforce and affordable housing. So um yeah.
Yeah.
Connected City
Okay. But the first phase is sixty percent AMI or lower in in senior.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Okay. Yes,
Charles GreyChair
sir.
Okay, anything? All right, thank you very much. All right. I think that's it for the applicant. And do we have anybody else here that wants to speak? Do you want to speak?
Denise
Yes, on this item we have Thomas Cook signed up to speak.
Charles GreyChair
Okay. Thomas Cook.
Denise
Thomas Cook is who we have signed up to speak on this item.
John John Bur John Burkett, I'm sorry. I apologize. Thomas Cook is on the next item. I apologize, sir.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Right.
Good afternoon. Uh I just had a couple of questions.
Charles GreyChair
started, we just need your full name and your address.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
at [address removed].
Charles GreyChair
Thank you, and you've been sworn.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Um is an actual recent traffic study been done?
Charles GreyChair
I I don't think we'll see the answer,
Jon Moody
but we'll ask
Charles GreyChair
you. just go ahead and a ask your questions. We'll make a note or you'll make a note.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Okay.
Charles GreyChair
And then we'll get them answered for you.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Is there been a wildlife impact study done? Because I have Coyotes in my neighborhood. That Have been displaced. There has been some clearing in the land already.
And will there be a natural area buffer? Between lakeside woodlands. And these new buildings. A four story building. It's not really gonna matter. They're gonna see over it anyway. My concern is for my community. I happen to be the president. And I would also like a completion date on phase one.
Okay, and will there be amenities for The affordable housing that's not.
Fifty five plus. for younger families, like playgrounds. Stuff like that because right now I have three communities using my stuff. Our stuff. We have a severe traffic problem in our neighborhood. Everyone cuts through it. And I'm afraid that it's going to only going to increase.
And I think I done enough damage.
Charles GreyChair
So
Unidentified speakerVoice C
All right, we'll
Charles GreyChair
try to get those questions answered. I'm I'm sure he was making notes there. I hope he was making notes and he can respond to your questions.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Okay. Now what is the AMI? One last question. What is the AMI in um my area?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Annual average and median income is what it stands for.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
I know, but what is it? It will depend on which threshold you're talking about.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
my area, what's the dollars?
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well There is sixty percent M AMI, there is eighty percent AMI. I believe it's I think he's asking what's the meaning in the
case?
David Engel
And it's about seventy eight thousand dollars a year.
No, that's that's the average monthly income for a aver for a typical Yeah.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Okay. So
David Engel
it's sixty percent of that.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah, not monthly. That would be yearly.
Yearly income.
David Engel
That's annual income.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Which Which is it, eighty or sixty? percent of AMI.
Connected City
Well
Unidentified speakerVoice C
but
Connected City
the
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
the deed restriction requires it to be eighty percent of AMI. Correct. That's
But The county's not requiring anything less than a Anything less than eighty percent. Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Uh thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Just to just to give you a scale Scale magnitude. Half the half the employees in Pasco County make eighty percent of AMI or less.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Yeah, I know. I know many Pasco employees.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Okay.
Unidentified speakerVoice C
Okay. Thank you.
Charles GreyChair
Thank you.
Okay.
If not, you want to come up and respond to this Specific question, very specific question.
What
Yeah, thank you, Shelley Johnson, [address removed] and I have been sworn again. Um to answer the traffic, yeah, there was an updated traffic study that was done for the Euclidean zoning for the numbers that are in front of you today. Um as far as a buffer, I think if you look at the aerial on this site, it's actually surrounded by right-of-way lakeside um Woodlands Boulevard and Drive and then Dallas Drive on the other side. It kind of sits in an island. But of course when they, you know, do their site plan they're gonna have to comply with the landscape buffers along those right-of-way. So there will be a landscape buffer.
Um pursuant to the county code. Um I think the other question was with regards to the any of the um units that are built that are not age restricted. Um those phases of course would have to comply with county code if there's you know neighborhood parks requirements and those kinds of things. So those would all be built in internally to the site. Um, so I don't think there would be any question about them utilizing other neighborhoods, uh, parks and things like that, I think is what the question was. Um
Charles GreyChair
So they'll have their own recreation facilities.
What
Yeah, yeah, they would have to if we're you know per the code if they're you know especially on the non-age restricted portion of it. As far as when the building would be completed, I'll have to let my client answer that question. I don't have an answer to that.
Unidentified speaker
Okay Shelly
What
Sure
Unidentified speaker
with the traffic study did it require any off-site road improvements or access improvements?
What
Um it did not trigger any substandard road or off site improvements and then the access obviously they'll look at that at site plan in terms of any access improvements, but I don't believe Steve um indicated at that point there had been any, so
Unidentified speaker
no turn lanes or anything like that.
What
I don't yeah, I don't think that's been drilled down yet, but will be obviously when they go to sleep clean. But yeah, there's no it didn't trigger any substandard road or it was under the threshold, so.
Connected City
And I I know the answer to this too, but I know the gentleman that came up and spoke mentioned uh wildlife study.
What
Oh I'm sorry, yeah, we did do a cultural assessment on this part particular property and we also did a wildlife study. So both were submitted to the county and reviewed. Seth.
Charles GreyChair
You wanna come up again, sir, and give us your estimate of completion date?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Um So as I indicated, oh sorry, Sean Smith, [address removed]. Um so as I indicated earlier, we've already submitted a site plan application. Uh to your question, uh Mr. Moody, uh during the pre-application process, there were comments made about the condition of Dallas Road, and we've already been notified that we are going to need to repave. uh grind down and repave all of Dallas Road all the way to five A, which is well past our site, right? I mean our s our site
stops eight o'clock.
Charles GreyChair
Could you repeat that because he was involved in the conversation?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
I'm sorry?
Charles GreyChair
Sure. This is material to your question. You are not.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Oh, so yes, uh, I was just saying that during the pre-application process, we did receive comments uh from traffic and they they did indicate that they would want us to um grind down and repave all of Dallas Court from our site to 5A. So that is, you know, something that we are preparing to do. Um there were no comments regarding Lakeshore. Uh but again, you know, our site plan has been submitted. We have not received um full comments yet, so when
we do if that's you know, if that's and something that comes up we will we will deal with that. What class
Charles GreyChair
buffer is going
to
be required around the
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Sorry. I'm not sure. I apologize, Mr. Gray.
Charles GreyChair
Do you have any idea, John or or Jamie?
Connected City
So Dallas Drive actually becomes Lakeshore. So I'm just looking at it at the end of the day.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
So Dallas and then and then the rest is yes, Lake Shore all the way up to five A.
Connected City
Okay,
Unidentified speakerVoice B
just
Connected City
clarifying.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
We'll be redoing all of that.
Jon Moody
Mr. Gray, the answer on the buffers. I guess. Brad can correct me if I'm wrong. Along the street advantages there are type D, D one. Buffer. And then I'm not sure exactly on the answer where they abut to Lakeside Woodlands, but I see that their property line that abuts Lakeside Woodlands is going through a lake. Mm. And I'm guessing they probably can't pl
they're not gonna plant a buffer in the middle of a lake.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
No. And we've also purchased Uh the the red outline only shows the original 19.9 acre site, but to the south, the those other two parcels. We've already we're under contract on those. And in our site plan that's already been submitted, that will be a master retention site with a walking path for the entire community. Again, so there will be no no buildings going there. That'll be strictly a large seven-acre retention
pond that will be that will serve as the master retention for the entire three phases or two. phases however we develop the twenty acres and then also have a walking trail and benches uh that'll be you know accessible to the community.
Jon Moody
So are the building plans already designed?
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Yes.
Our 100% set, which is what we would submit, uh, is due from our um uh architect on uh July twelfth. So that's a four-story building. Yes, sir. It'll be one four-story elevator service building and then a detached uh roughly five thousand square foot clubhouse swimming pool. um pickleball courts, uh of course I think we brought up the the neighborhoods and recreation we'll be maintaining all the green space that'll be required.
We've been in connection with Pasco County uh the whole time. Uh Miss Che, I believe her name is, and um Yep. So Uh regarding the he asked about the listed species. As as Ms. Johnson pointed out, we did have that done. d we you know, uh came back clean with the exception of a lot of gopher tortoises and we are currently in the process of working with the fish and wildlife to relocate those and uh and what those expenses are gonna be. So
Okay, okay.
Charles GreyChair
Yeah.
Unidentified speakerVoice B
Anything else?
Charles GreyChair
Uh not from me. Anybody have else up here? Nope. Thank you, Gemma.
Okay.
Denise
I think we have your answer from Ms. Burgess on who's on the line.
Stacey Burgess
Yes. So yeah. So for the ITE, it's based on eleven studies for mid-rise and twenty-two for the low rise. So that's what ITE is providing for a multifamily.
Denise
See I don't think we can hear you too well, so can you try again please?
Stacey Burgess
Okay. It's okay. So for ITE There are eleven studies for the mid-rise. And twenty two. for low rides. Did that come through okay?
Jon Moody
Yeah. And the mid rise
Stacey Burgess
was the four
Jon Moody
stories and up?
Stacey Burgess
Uh I believe so I I kinda limit it with the uh information in front of me, but that's what I have right now. It's just kinda giving me
Connected City
D and did you have a date when those studies were completed?
Stacey Burgess
Just because of um the resources that I have in front of me, it would take a while. So I'm sorry that I don't have it just at hand. So but for right now, that's what I can give you, you know, just uh an an idea for right now.
Charles GreyChair
Okay.
Any anybody? There it okay. All right. If there's no one else to speak.
Um yeah our motion.
Yeah.
Jon Moody
Well.
I'll just say something. Um I'm a little frustrated. With the whole traffic thing. Good. that we're gonna have a minimum of four stories in height because of some ITE declaration that I think Probably some of us up here think is baloney. That Midrise apartments. Four stories generate less traffic than three story apartments. And my preference
in deference to the neighbors, is to limit the height to three stories, not four stories, but the gentleman already has invested in the building plans. And
It's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well and I w I'm just gonna comment though in response that he's building an affordable housing project. He may need that density. and that height to get to the rents that he needs to get to.
Jon Moody
I understand that, but that doesn't mean that we have to just ignore the concerns of the neighbors too. So that that but
Charles GreyChair
I think the logic is, mm if there's any logic to any of it, is that You know, if you live on the fourth floor, you're gonna do the l you're gonna go back to your car and drive somewhere as infrequently as possible. Just because it's it's gonna be Less attractive than if you're on the second floor or the first floor.
Jon Moody
I mean I I don't think the ITE makes assumptions about people's behavior. They actually watch it and they count traffic in and out of these things. in my experience a lot of these studies were done thirty years ago and you know they may not be current and they may have been done in some crazy location out from a hundred miles from nowhere. Unfortunately staff can't tell us right now what what that's the case, but
Connected City
Well I can't help but wonder if there's some of these midrise structures that they studied were in urban environments that didn't really have a lot of vehicular travel.
That was the reason was it because it took 'em too long to get down from the fourth floor. It was The areas they studied just didn't really have a lot of vehicular travel just because of the environment urban environment they were in.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well so Let's go back to why the purpose of why that assumption was made. It was made for purposes of a traffic study. So It may be that even if they assume three stories. Yeah. It would have shown the level of service on the roadways was fine anyway. So I I'm not sure this is it seems like almost an academic I understand you are concerned about wanting to limit the height, but in terms of the traffic study D it may not have made a difference whether it was they assumed three stories or four stories. I mean we don't have Steve
Henry here to confirm it. D do you see here or available? Um I guess we can ask Stacy, would the traffic study results have been any different, Tracy, if they had assumed three stories?
Is she still there? She's She just let me know.
Stacey Burgess
Yeah, I'm still here. I was just kind of looking through their study. I on this side, I'm just having trouble with the ITE, the uh website, because we usually get that information on there. But I'm just looking at their study and I'm going to look at their V over C ratio. And let's see here. As far as the capacity uh you know, for what we're looking for on five five A Road, there they're like zero point five one for
the road. So they're ha using half of the capacity on that 5A road.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
So You're saying that there is adequate capacity regardless of how many stores they stories they assumed?
Stacey Burgess
At this point with the limited information that I have right now, that would be my assumption. That they would still be able to to do that. But I would have to, you know, sit down and look at that a little bit more. But I'm just looking at the capacity.
Asin Khalil
David, hey, this is Asin. I'll I'll try to answer your question. So based on the trip generation
Charles GreyChair
Essen, you cut out. Yeah, Essen, hold on a minute. Uh David this David.
David Engel
Mr. Chairman, I I just wanted to ask a rhetorical question of our traffic engineering uh folks. Uh from a planning context, we're aware that age-restricted housing, especially senior citizen, generates less trips per household. And was that taken into account in timing and phasing? That's a good point.
Jaimie GirardiVice Chair
Well, I p uh the time and phase analysis is in our packet and I think it was. I don't know.
but
Jon Moody
the applicant testified that the reason they agreed agreed to the minimum of four stories was to avoid being forced into an MPUD. Didn't have to do with whether or not they needed to do road improvements or Okay.
Denise
And to answer the question, it's um on page twenty-seven of one fifteen of the of the traffic study, um it did account for um for mid-rise and then also senior adult housing.
Connected City
Yeah, it looked like the senior adult housing it was about point two five trips per unit per day, and then the multifamily was point three nine trips per unit per day. So it was a little bit of a higher Trip count for the hundred and eighty. Multifamily. Uh Portion. Of the project.
Jon Moody
Well maybe.
That's my personal. Issue. But this isn't an MPUD and I probably Denise can probably just put this to bed for me, but this is the urban service area.
Denise
Absolutely. That's what I was about to say.
Jon Moody
us use values out of some book to make dis arbitrary decisions like that. This is a case of I think it is what it is.
So is that a motion?
And I move it is what it is.
I will move to approve. I've made my comments. Thank you.
Connected City
I'll second that.
Charles GreyChair
Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye opposed, like sign. Okay. Thank you.
2Aug 21, 2024
Board of County CommissionersMF3Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes
Open this item →No recording