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MF3No disposition in the minutesConsent agendaPublished agenda

Multiple-Family High Density District – Northwest Pasco County – Southeast Corner of the Intersection of Lakeshore Boulevard, Dallas Drive, and Community Court, Approximately 650 Feet West of Fivay Road – Containing Approximately 19.98 Acres

Page 2 of 5Public HearingsPEG-24-7790District 5

What the county recorded

Published agenda

Staff recommendation

Approve

No disposition in the minutes

The approved minutes do not say what became of this item. That is a gap in the record, not a decision. It is the normal state for 24% of items. Most of those are regular business and board reports that the minutes do not dispose of in writing. This archive never infers an outcome from the fact that someone called a vote.

The source document

Published agenda

The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jun 20, 2024

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

Approved minutes

The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jun 20, 2024

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

This case, across meetings

PEG-24-7790 in full →

PEG-24-7790 was taken up 2 times between Jun 20, 2024 and Aug 21, 2024 — this is appearance 1.

  1. Jun 20, 2024PlanningMF3No disposition in the minutesthis item
  2. Aug 21, 2024BoardMF3No disposition in the minutes

No appearance of this case has a final disposition in the minutes. It was continued, or the minutes do not dispose of it in writing — which is true for 24% of items.

What was said

Transcript

Machine transcription of 30m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 77% of 210 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

Read it in the meeting →
Liam Devine

Okay. Good afternoon. I hope so. Liam Divine Planning and Economic Growth Department. Um this is PC five. Let me go back one. Um P-E-G 24-7790 in the name of Bayonet Land L L Cay Gardens. It is a Euclidean zoning amendment from M F One, multifamily medium density district in rezoning to MF3 multifamily high density district. The future land use classification is REST 24

under the comprehensive plan, and the applicant proposes to develop the property of the 294 multifamily age-restricted Dwelling units with 50% of the units being set aside for those incomes of eighty percent or less AMI in conformance with the MF3 multifamily high density district standards. And the subject site location is on the southwest corner of the intersection of Lakeshore Boulevard and Dallas Drive and Community Court, approximately 600 feet

west of 5A Road.

The site is located in the West Market area in the Surban um urban service area.

Here is our context map. Of the area?

Here is our zoomed in aerial.

And our surrounding future land use to the north is ROR, Res 6, and Res 24, to the east is Res 6 and Res 24, to the south is Res 6, and to the west is ROR and Res 6.

The surrounding zoning is PUD and MF3 to the north, to the east is PUD, MF3, and PO2, to the south is AC, PUD, and to the west is MF1 and MF2.

The subject site is undeveloped on approximately 19.98 acres. Access to the property is from Lakeshore Boulevard and Dallas Drive. And the subject site is located um 660 feet west of a um planned conceptual trail along 5A. And this is coming with recommendation for approval with deed restrictions as provided in your agenda packet. I'm gonna list some of the deed restrictions. Um there will be a maximum of 294 multifamily

dwelling units. There shall be 147 affordable dwelling units set aside for those incomes of 80% or less. There shall be 114 age-restricted, 55 plus dwelling units. Um the 180 units that are non-age restricted.

shall be a minimum four stories in height, and all age-restricted dwelling units shall comply with LDC section 1302.1 D. Um and it also includes the live local um restriction for um

Tax exemption as well. And again, this is coming with recommendation approval from Planning and Economic Growth Department. I'm here if you have any questions.

GreyChair

Okay, anybody have questions?

Denise

And Planning Commission members, just to add to Liam's fabulous presentation, that those deed restrictions are basically in order to comply with the sub-area policy for Bayonet Gardens, which is flu policy 7.1.73.

Liam Devine

Thank you, Denise.

Moody

Does the sub-area policy Include the minimum height.

Liam Devine

No, so where that minimum height is coming from is actually coming from the timing and phasing and trip generation. So I believe they're around a little less than 1200 daily trips. So by doing mid-rise instead of low rise, um it actually reduces the number of tricks trips. So if they did low rise under the ITE code, um they would generate more than twelve hundred daily trips and would trigger an MPUD rezoning

Unidentified speaker

Okay,

Moody

no key.

Unidentified speaker

Do

Liam Devine

you have an explanation for that

Connected City

why the height of the building would affect traffic?

Liam Devine

So I'm not a transportation planner or expertise. I'm sure somebody is here who can answer that, but that is coming from your ITE code.

Connected City

I mean when you have to leave you have to leave but DoorDash.

Moody

Yeah. Well, is there a transportation person that's going to be a good thing?

Denise

Yes, we have several folks online. I don't know um and and they're all elevated in order to speak, so whoever would like to speak on this item, just unmute yourself and please explain.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Source. Yeah.

Stacey Burgess

Good afternoon. This is Stacy Burgess with Development review department. Um can you rephrase your question again? I do have the information up in front of me. What was your question?

Moody

I think Liam Stacy, this is John Moody, I think Liam answered the question. I do have one question out of curiosity. the ITE category that Allows or reduces traffic for higher Rise apartments. How old is that study?

Stacey Burgess

Is study

Moody

let's when does the ITE manual say the studies were conducted?

And where

Stacey Burgess

Yeah, let me see.

Right, you study You're not you're not referring to the um Oldest. the online ITE, you're you're referring to what the applicant has provided. I don't

Moody

know. In the ITE manual they generally tell you that the rates were established based on X many number of studies conducted during these years in these locations.

Stacey Burgess

Got it. So what I could do is if you guys can come back to me, I can load up on there because I'm here in the study, but I would have to go back online and I can get that information for you and just kind of come back to me with that. Sounds good. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

GreyChair

Any other questions? If not the applicant present.

What

Thank you. Shelley Johnson, 6400 Madison Street, and I have been sworn. Um yeah, we are in agreement with obviously the deed restrictions and all of the additional things that they've included in those deed restrictions because it is a Euclidean. Um we have been at work at this for a while. We do have that sub-area policy that's applicable and it is in compliance with that. So but we are here, my client is here and we're happy to answer any questions.

Moody

Shelley, can you just help me clarify?

What

Sure.

Moody

A couple of things. I'm trying to figure out the math. Here. It's a hundred and forty seven affordable dwelling units for income at or below eighty percent AMI. A minimum of a hundred and fourteen age restricted, fifty five years age or older, and then a The 180 that are non-age restricted, 55 age or older shall be a minimum of four stories in height. But there's only three hundred or two hundred and ninety-four units.

I'm trying to understand.

What

Okay, yeah, I was gonna answer that as well.

Liam Devine

Sorry, yes, because you can have some that are age restricted and affordable. Um

Moody

Okay, so I think you might have just answered my next question, and that is going to be are the fifty-five years of age or older reserved for elderly or older people, 'cause I'm older than fifty five. Um eighty percent of AMI.

I think you just answered the question. So not all of the age restricted units are for eighty percent AMI.

Liam Devine

Correct. So potentially you could ha you would have 104 and but uh hypothetically I don't know what that exact unit count and I I don't even know if the applicant would know that at this point, but you you could potentially have Um

Connected City

Just as they are.

Liam Devine

Uh you you would not don't speak from the floor, can't get that on the record.

eighty percent or less, some of them could be age restricted, some don't, and then they could potentially have market rate apartments as there as well. Okay.

GreyChair

Thanks. All right.

Okay.

GirardiVice Chair

Anything else for the applicant?

GreyChair

Okay.

GirardiVice Chair

Is that the follow up on Mr. Moody's question, let me just ask the applicant. In reality, are you just gonna be building one building that's at least four stories that's gonna have all of it in it.

What

Um that I don't know. So I would have to ask my clients to come up to answer that question. But um and it will all be affordable even though you know our LUM allows us to have a little bit that's non-affordable in market rate. So it may end up that way.

GirardiVice Chair

Are you really just looking to build one building that's got all of these units or are you gonna multiple buildings?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Sean Smith, 19409 Blue Pond Drive. I'm work for McDowell Housing Partners. Uh so we've already submitted uh site plan application. We'll be following up with building permit application for the phase one. This is gonna be done in three phases. So phase one is 114 units. It's uh will be all senior, 55 plus, all affordable, 100% at 60% AMI or below. Um and so and then phase two. Will be somewhere

between 100 and 180 units. And then if we do a phase, a third phase. it would be to, you know, to get to the two ninety-four. But as of right now it's a minimum of two phases and possibly a third.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay, so you are building three different buildings then?

Moody

Yes sir. Okay. Are you saying that Ultimately, regardless of what the approval but ultimately all of them will be affordable.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

That is our that is our game plan. Yes, sir. I mean that's that's primarily our business is uh doing workforce and affordable housing. So um yeah.

Yeah.

Connected City

Okay. But the first phase is sixty percent AMI or lower in in senior.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Okay. Yes,

GreyChair

sir.

Okay, anything? All right, thank you very much. All right. I think that's it for the applicant. And do we have anybody else here that wants to speak? Do you want to speak?

Denise

Yes, on this item we have Thomas Cook signed up to speak.

GreyChair

Okay. Thomas Cook.

Denise

Thomas Cook is who we have signed up to speak on this item.

John John Bur John Burkett, I'm sorry. I apologize. Thomas Cook is on the next item. I apologize, sir.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Right.

Good afternoon. Uh I just had a couple of questions.

GreyChair

started, we just need your full name and your address.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

at [address removed].

GreyChair

Thank you, and you've been sworn.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Um is an actual recent traffic study been done?

GreyChair

I I don't think we'll see the answer,

Moody

but we'll ask

GreyChair

you. just go ahead and a ask your questions. We'll make a note or you'll make a note.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Okay.

GreyChair

And then we'll get them answered for you.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Is there been a wildlife impact study done? Because I have Coyotes in my neighborhood. That Have been displaced. There has been some clearing in the land already.

And will there be a natural area buffer? Between lakeside woodlands. And these new buildings. A four story building. It's not really gonna matter. They're gonna see over it anyway. My concern is for my community. I happen to be the president. And I would also like a completion date on phase one.

Okay, and will there be amenities for The affordable housing that's not.

Fifty five plus. for younger families, like playgrounds. Stuff like that because right now I have three communities using my stuff. Our stuff. We have a severe traffic problem in our neighborhood. Everyone cuts through it. And I'm afraid that it's going to only going to increase.

And I think I done enough damage.

GreyChair

So

Unidentified speakerVoice C

All right, we'll

GreyChair

try to get those questions answered. I'm I'm sure he was making notes there. I hope he was making notes and he can respond to your questions.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Okay. Now what is the AMI? One last question. What is the AMI in um my area?

GirardiVice Chair

Annual average and median income is what it stands for.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yeah

GirardiVice Chair

I know, but what is it? It will depend on which threshold you're talking about.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

my area, what's the dollars?

GirardiVice Chair

Well There is sixty percent M AMI, there is eighty percent AMI. I believe it's I think he's asking what's the meaning in the

case?

David Engel

And it's about seventy eight thousand dollars a year.

No, that's that's the average monthly income for a aver for a typical Yeah.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. So

David Engel

it's sixty percent of that.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yeah, not monthly. That would be yearly.

Yearly income.

David Engel

That's annual income.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Which Which is it, eighty or sixty? percent of AMI.

Connected City

Well

Unidentified speakerVoice C

but

Connected City

the

GirardiVice Chair

the deed restriction requires it to be eighty percent of AMI. Correct. That's

But The county's not requiring anything less than a Anything less than eighty percent. Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Uh thank you, gentlemen. Thank you.

GirardiVice Chair

Just to just to give you a scale Scale magnitude. Half the half the employees in Pasco County make eighty percent of AMI or less.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yeah, I know. I know many Pasco employees.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Okay. Thank you.

GreyChair

Thank you.

Okay.

If not, you want to come up and respond to this Specific question, very specific question.

What

Yeah, thank you, Shelley Johnson, [address removed] and I have been sworn again. Um to answer the traffic, yeah, there was an updated traffic study that was done for the Euclidean zoning for the numbers that are in front of you today. Um as far as a buffer, I think if you look at the aerial on this site, it's actually surrounded by right-of-way lakeside um Woodlands Boulevard and Drive and then Dallas Drive on the other side. It kind of sits in an island. But of course when they, you know, do their site plan they're gonna have to comply with the landscape buffers along those right-of-way. So there will be a landscape buffer.

Um pursuant to the county code. Um I think the other question was with regards to the any of the um units that are built that are not age restricted. Um those phases of course would have to comply with county code if there's you know neighborhood parks requirements and those kinds of things. So those would all be built in internally to the site. Um, so I don't think there would be any question about them utilizing other neighborhoods, uh, parks and things like that, I think is what the question was. Um

GreyChair

So they'll have their own recreation facilities.

What

Yeah, yeah, they would have to if we're you know per the code if they're you know especially on the non-age restricted portion of it. As far as when the building would be completed, I'll have to let my client answer that question. I don't have an answer to that.

Unidentified speaker

Okay Shelly

What

Sure

Unidentified speaker

with the traffic study did it require any off-site road improvements or access improvements?

What

Um it did not trigger any substandard road or off site improvements and then the access obviously they'll look at that at site plan in terms of any access improvements, but I don't believe Steve um indicated at that point there had been any, so

Unidentified speaker

no turn lanes or anything like that.

What

I don't yeah, I don't think that's been drilled down yet, but will be obviously when they go to sleep clean. But yeah, there's no it didn't trigger any substandard road or it was under the threshold, so.

Connected City

And I I know the answer to this too, but I know the gentleman that came up and spoke mentioned uh wildlife study.

What

Oh I'm sorry, yeah, we did do a cultural assessment on this part particular property and we also did a wildlife study. So both were submitted to the county and reviewed. Seth.

GreyChair

You wanna come up again, sir, and give us your estimate of completion date?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Um So as I indicated, oh sorry, Sean Smith, [address removed]. Um so as I indicated earlier, we've already submitted a site plan application. Uh to your question, uh Mr. Moody, uh during the pre-application process, there were comments made about the condition of Dallas Road, and we've already been notified that we are going to need to repave. uh grind down and repave all of Dallas Road all the way to five A, which is well past our site, right? I mean our s our site

stops eight o'clock.

GreyChair

Could you repeat that because he was involved in the conversation?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

I'm sorry?

GreyChair

Sure. This is material to your question. You are not.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Oh, so yes, uh, I was just saying that during the pre-application process, we did receive comments uh from traffic and they they did indicate that they would want us to um grind down and repave all of Dallas Court from our site to 5A. So that is, you know, something that we are preparing to do. Um there were no comments regarding Lakeshore. Uh but again, you know, our site plan has been submitted. We have not received um full comments yet, so when

we do if that's you know, if that's and something that comes up we will we will deal with that. What class

GreyChair

buffer is going

to

be required around the

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Sorry. I'm not sure. I apologize, Mr. Gray.

GreyChair

Do you have any idea, John or or Jamie?

Connected City

So Dallas Drive actually becomes Lakeshore. So I'm just looking at it at the end of the day.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

So Dallas and then and then the rest is yes, Lake Shore all the way up to five A.

Connected City

Okay,

Unidentified speakerVoice B

just

Connected City

clarifying.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

We'll be redoing all of that.

Moody

Mr. Gray, the answer on the buffers. I guess. Brad can correct me if I'm wrong. Along the street advantages there are type D, D one. Buffer. And then I'm not sure exactly on the answer where they abut to Lakeside Woodlands, but I see that their property line that abuts Lakeside Woodlands is going through a lake. Mm. And I'm guessing they probably can't pl

they're not gonna plant a buffer in the middle of a lake.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

No. And we've also purchased Uh the the red outline only shows the original 19.9 acre site, but to the south, the those other two parcels. We've already we're under contract on those. And in our site plan that's already been submitted, that will be a master retention site with a walking path for the entire community. Again, so there will be no no buildings going there. That'll be strictly a large seven-acre retention

pond that will be that will serve as the master retention for the entire three phases or two. phases however we develop the twenty acres and then also have a walking trail and benches uh that'll be you know accessible to the community.

Moody

So are the building plans already designed?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Yes.

Our 100% set, which is what we would submit, uh, is due from our um uh architect on uh July twelfth. So that's a four-story building. Yes, sir. It'll be one four-story elevator service building and then a detached uh roughly five thousand square foot clubhouse swimming pool. um pickleball courts, uh of course I think we brought up the the neighborhoods and recreation we'll be maintaining all the green space that'll be required.

We've been in connection with Pasco County uh the whole time. Uh Miss Che, I believe her name is, and um Yep. So Uh regarding the he asked about the listed species. As as Ms. Johnson pointed out, we did have that done. d we you know, uh came back clean with the exception of a lot of gopher tortoises and we are currently in the process of working with the fish and wildlife to relocate those and uh and what those expenses are gonna be. So

Okay, okay.

GreyChair

Yeah.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Anything else?

GreyChair

Uh not from me. Anybody have else up here? Nope. Thank you, Gemma.

Okay.

Denise

I think we have your answer from Ms. Burgess on who's on the line.

Stacey Burgess

Yes. So yeah. So for the ITE, it's based on eleven studies for mid-rise and twenty-two for the low rise. So that's what ITE is providing for a multifamily.

Denise

See I don't think we can hear you too well, so can you try again please?

Stacey Burgess

Okay. It's okay. So for ITE There are eleven studies for the mid-rise. And twenty two. for low rides. Did that come through okay?

Moody

Yeah. And the mid rise

Stacey Burgess

was the four

Moody

stories and up?

Stacey Burgess

Uh I believe so I I kinda limit it with the uh information in front of me, but that's what I have right now. It's just kinda giving me

Connected City

D and did you have a date when those studies were completed?

Stacey Burgess

Just because of um the resources that I have in front of me, it would take a while. So I'm sorry that I don't have it just at hand. So but for right now, that's what I can give you, you know, just uh an an idea for right now.

GreyChair

Okay.

Any anybody? There it okay. All right. If there's no one else to speak.

Um yeah our motion.

Yeah.

Moody

Well.

I'll just say something. Um I'm a little frustrated. With the whole traffic thing. Good. that we're gonna have a minimum of four stories in height because of some ITE declaration that I think Probably some of us up here think is baloney. That Midrise apartments. Four stories generate less traffic than three story apartments. And my preference

in deference to the neighbors, is to limit the height to three stories, not four stories, but the gentleman already has invested in the building plans. And

It's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

GirardiVice Chair

Well and I w I'm just gonna comment though in response that he's building an affordable housing project. He may need that density. and that height to get to the rents that he needs to get to.

Moody

I understand that, but that doesn't mean that we have to just ignore the concerns of the neighbors too. So that that but

GreyChair

I think the logic is, mm if there's any logic to any of it, is that You know, if you live on the fourth floor, you're gonna do the l you're gonna go back to your car and drive somewhere as infrequently as possible. Just because it's it's gonna be Less attractive than if you're on the second floor or the first floor.

Moody

I mean I I don't think the ITE makes assumptions about people's behavior. They actually watch it and they count traffic in and out of these things. in my experience a lot of these studies were done thirty years ago and you know they may not be current and they may have been done in some crazy location out from a hundred miles from nowhere. Unfortunately staff can't tell us right now what what that's the case, but

Connected City

Well I can't help but wonder if there's some of these midrise structures that they studied were in urban environments that didn't really have a lot of vehicular travel.

That was the reason was it because it took 'em too long to get down from the fourth floor. It was The areas they studied just didn't really have a lot of vehicular travel just because of the environment urban environment they were in.

GirardiVice Chair

Well so Let's go back to why the purpose of why that assumption was made. It was made for purposes of a traffic study. So It may be that even if they assume three stories. Yeah. It would have shown the level of service on the roadways was fine anyway. So I I'm not sure this is it seems like almost an academic I understand you are concerned about wanting to limit the height, but in terms of the traffic study D it may not have made a difference whether it was they assumed three stories or four stories. I mean we don't have Steve

Henry here to confirm it. D do you see here or available? Um I guess we can ask Stacy, would the traffic study results have been any different, Tracy, if they had assumed three stories?

Is she still there? She's She just let me know.

Stacey Burgess

Yeah, I'm still here. I was just kind of looking through their study. I on this side, I'm just having trouble with the ITE, the uh website, because we usually get that information on there. But I'm just looking at their study and I'm going to look at their V over C ratio. And let's see here. As far as the capacity uh you know, for what we're looking for on five five A Road, there they're like zero point five one for

the road. So they're ha using half of the capacity on that 5A road.

GirardiVice Chair

So You're saying that there is adequate capacity regardless of how many stores they stories they assumed?

Stacey Burgess

At this point with the limited information that I have right now, that would be my assumption. That they would still be able to to do that. But I would have to, you know, sit down and look at that a little bit more. But I'm just looking at the capacity.

Asin Khalil

David, hey, this is Asin. I'll I'll try to answer your question. So based on the trip generation

GreyChair

Essen, you cut out. Yeah, Essen, hold on a minute. Uh David this David.

David Engel

Mr. Chairman, I I just wanted to ask a rhetorical question of our traffic engineering uh folks. Uh from a planning context, we're aware that age-restricted housing, especially senior citizen, generates less trips per household. And was that taken into account in timing and phasing? That's a good point.

GirardiVice Chair

Well, I p uh the time and phase analysis is in our packet and I think it was. I don't know.

but

Moody

the applicant testified that the reason they agreed agreed to the minimum of four stories was to avoid being forced into an MPUD. Didn't have to do with whether or not they needed to do road improvements or Okay.

Denise

And to answer the question, it's um on page twenty-seven of one fifteen of the of the traffic study, um it did account for um for mid-rise and then also senior adult housing.

Connected City

Yeah, it looked like the senior adult housing it was about point two five trips per unit per day, and then the multifamily was point three nine trips per unit per day. So it was a little bit of a higher Trip count for the hundred and eighty. Multifamily. Uh Portion. Of the project.

Moody

Well maybe.

That's my personal. Issue. But this isn't an MPUD and I probably Denise can probably just put this to bed for me, but this is the urban service area.

Denise

Absolutely. That's what I was about to say.

Moody

us use values out of some book to make dis arbitrary decisions like that. This is a case of I think it is what it is.

So is that a motion?

And I move it is what it is.

I will move to approve. I've made my comments. Thank you.

Connected City

I'll second that.

GreyChair

Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye opposed, like sign. Okay. Thank you.