Discussion – Code Enforcement Issues Surrounding Existing Boat Lift Canopies and Review of a Draft Ordinance to Allow New Boat Lift Canopies – No Funding Required

19:35Okay, we'll move on to regular item.

19:42Yeah,

19:42here.

19:53Well Make that one.

20:05Okay. Our fit.

20:14R fifty one.

20:31Thank you, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Item P fifty one is code enforcement issues surrounding existing boat lift canopies. And review of a draft ordinance to allow new boat lift canopies. And I believe staff is online ready to make the presentation. Mr. Michael Whalen, you're available?

21:02Michael,

21:03are you there? He's not online.

21:12Okay. We can go to the uh PowerPoint then.

21:36Okay, so staff is seeking board direction as to how to handle enforcement of existing illegal canopies. So what's happened is uh at various board meetings and at workshops over the past couple of years, Board of County Commissioners um requested information On what was originally called docks and then roofover docks. And a few years ago, inland bodies of water, the issue was put to rest with the inland bodies of water, and the question remained for coastal uh properties. And at a

22:06recent workshop, I believe in September of 2019, the Board of County Commissioners outlined a number of Additional qualifications and ideas for how to handle the coastal areas of Pasco County. And the question was refined further from roofs over docks to boat lift canopies specifically. And so the Planning and Development Department went back and through spring of 2020 until essentially the fall of 2020. reviewed

22:38the project and uh determined to put together a feasibil a feasible ordinance. Um and this is sort of the uh the outline and the background uh on the overhead here, uh to put together a feasible ordinance that the Board of County Commissioners could consider for for coastal uh properties. There is a draft of that feasible ordinance that's been put together. However, a question remains regarding what to do with the existing properties that

23:09have already built bolt lift covers without the ordinance in place. So that's to point five on the slide there in July and August of twenty twenty. Uh staff observed at least eighty-nine instances of illegal roofs and canopies that were present in in some of the coastal areas. Uh of Pasco County. Next slide.

23:33Um so a number of there are three main issues here. So the county has not issued permits for these structures and there's no guarantee of safety during storms or otherwise. Um and the third issue is that there no review by staff means no guarantee of compliance with the land development code in terms of canal nav navigability standards, uh in terms of how far out they are projecting into the various canals. Next slide.

23:59Uh and this is a quick analysis of where those eighty-nine instances are within the coastal areas of County. Six are in Gulf Harbors, one is in Killarney Shores, 24 in Leisure Beach, eleven in Pleasure Isles, 23 in Seapines, 20 in Sea Ranch, and 4 in Vista Del Mar. Next slide.

24:22Those all were done without permits.

24:25Yes, these are the eighty nine that are pre existing, so to speak. Uh and as you can see they're kind of spread across the coastal uh areas of the county.

24:36So there are a number of enforcement alternatives associated um with uh the question before the board today. Uh to maintain the sc status quo would be to continue the to abate enforcement action regarding these structures. So I think it was back in twenty sixteen uh the BCC uh determined to first identify what a feasible ordinance might look like and then consider what actions might be taken for those properties that have these pre-existing

25:06boat lift canopies. That's why it's called the status quo today, why quote enforcement actions have not been happening. Um Another alternative is to enforce the existing provisions that are already in our codes. We can proceed with enforcement action to enforce the existing code provisions prohibiting roofs canopies over boats, docks, except on inland lakes, because that issue was resolved. A third alternative is to enact new provisions and grant amnesty over the exist the pre-existing

25:37boat lift canopies. That would mean to adopt the proposed land development code amendment that would be coming forward and grant amnesty to the existing structures. They would have to then provide the county with a hold harmless agreement. The fourth alternative is to enact new provisions and then require compliance on top of it. So proceed with enforcement action once you've got the new ordinance in place. Uh next slide.

26:05This kind of goes a little deeper into each of those options uh and things to consider when when looking at the the four options. So in the status quo situation, the problems will persist. Uh resident so the status quo was a bait in quote enforcement. Uh the problems will persist. Residents that want a canopy will continue to install these uh at the uh at the risk of the county requiring removal, safety navigability um remain or worsen as a result. Enforcing the existing provisions, residents

26:35would be required to remove the canopies and roofs. This option improves safety navigability. enact new provisions and grant amnesty. Um it doesn't require the removal of the um various liabilities that are out there. The illegal canopies can continue to exist. It legitimizes those canopies and allows residents without illegal canopies and roofs to apply for permits. uh safety and navigability issues would remain because you wouldn't necessarily be addressing the pre-existing conditions that are

27:05out there. But there would be likely improvement over time as new uh structures come online, meeting codes, et cetera. And then the fourth option would be to again enact the new provisions and require compliance. This allows most existing canopies to be brought into compliance.

27:29But it may be impossible to bring into compliance without demolition of existing structures. Right. So there's going to be that aspect of it where there's going to be significant uh potential. ramifications toward those who have built these prior to uh Any ordinance and provisions. Next slide.

27:54So today we're not we're introducing the concept of the ordinance, but we're not actually introducing the actual ordinance language. The discussion is mostly going to be centered, hopefully mostly centered around what to do with the with the existing um

28:11properties that have uh these boat lift canopies already in place. Um an ordinance would come forward based uh a feasible ordinance at least would come forward based on the direction that we're seeking from the Board of County Commissioners today. Uh next slide. But this is today's not the discussion about the actual ordinance, but rather about what to do with the existing uh preconditions preconditions.

28:37Yeah, sure. If I may. Um I don't believe the board can take action and other than to s tell staff that they should be enforcing the ordin the current ordinance which is on the books, which is these are these structures are not allowed. You can't take a position today about amnesty if you don't know what the ordinance that you're going to adopt is. So the the presentation that you're getting is really premature. Um for today's

29:07discussion. the what we should be discussing is what the ordinance is that you want brought forward.

29:15Okay.

29:17So the illustration up above uh illustrates in a nutshell what the proposed ordinance might Uh a fact for the for the communities.

29:29Saying what a proposed ordinance might look like? Does it matter?

29:32Well, yeah, it that's what you should be discussing, not inf not not whether you're gonna give amnesty to those structures which have been built illegally. If they've been built illegally, they've been built illegally. You need to you need to If you're gonna go forward with any sort of an ordinance that would allow these That's

29:56If you're going to continue to prohibit them on the Gulf Which is another option for the board. Then There would be no reason to give illegal structures amnesty. So what today's discussion really should be before the board is either to introduce the ordinance that is coming forward to the board or to gain information from the board about what the ordinance should look like that

30:27the board wishes to adopt.

30:34So we're actually giving them direction for writing the ordinance? Right.

30:38Yeah. So so it if i if either either to abandon it either to abandon this project and say you want to stay with a with the concept of there shall be no proofs or What sorts of roofs or canopies would be acceptable to the board for an ordinance to come forward so that we we can move this project forward to an adopted ordinance?

31:08Well,

31:08Mr. Chairman

31:09Mr. Moore.

31:16As written. Or move on to something else. There's your choice. What the choices that may be given. For at a future date. At a future date.

31:25The board can determine what it wants to do in an enforcement context. after it figures out what it wants to do with the subject matter.

31:35Right.

31:37Currently They're prohibited. It's not being enforced. It s should be enforced, but it's not being enforced. correct

31:50why is it not being

31:51enforced

31:51in reality It's that would

31:54be a question for staff.

31:55Yeah. And if you wanna make a change of that, that's when we're gonna you wanna delve deeper. So that's a choice you have to make. Stick with the status quo. Or do something different. Right, Jim?

32:09Mm-hmm. Yes. Ms.

32:10Starkey?

32:11Um I agree with what Commissioner's saying here and just for a little history, we have never allowed vote covers in the county, but we tweaked the ordinance a few years ago for for lakes or last year maybe for lakes. And I acquiesced to say. Okay, as you know, as long as we're leaving this at lakes where no one's view is obstructed, and if something blows

32:41off, those structures are very far from the residents and people and and and other people's property, and therefore I don't feel it's such a safety issue. But I am adamantly opposed to changing What has been the historical nature of our coastal area where we where we don't obstruct other people's views and um we keep the safety of other of property and people um in mind. And you

33:11know, we have a lot of residents there who don't live there year-round and they're they're not here in the summer. They're usually up north in the summer. And who's gonna look out for their canopies if they're not here? So um we've gotten along fine for since the 70s without them. Um so I would not even want to go on with the presentation and say I'm a Let's just test the water and see if we don't even need to move forward on the

33:42idea. And then we can discuss what we want to do with the current ones that were built. illegally, most most of them with the knowledge that they were illegal, but they went ahead and did it anyway. So

33:57Chairman

33:58Mariano. I don't see

34:02Yes, Mr. Chairman, if I could. Jack Mariano. Yeah. Yeah,

34:05sure. Um

34:07I would I would say that um, you know, we would help with the lakes issue was an easy one because it didn't affect people beside them. Uh this one here was definitely more sensitive to um people on canals that live next to each other. But uh I've talked to many, many people that have votes worth as much as a hundred thousand dollars, maybe some more. But the designs of these covers which uh a foot or two over the boat. And the boat there is really not gonna affect the view hardly

34:38at all. Uh the boat's gone, you just have the cover, which is pretty thin to deal with. I think the people should be able to protect their property. Uh I don't think it'll affect the view shed. Uh as detrimental as some of the other structures that were probably built or built before. Uh I think our citizens want to live the water, protect their property and enjoy it. And I I don't I think the boat cover canopies, which is something I think is a very good way to go uh for our

35:08citizens. And I've heard tremendous support for it. There had been pockets of smaller um that don't want to see it, but for the for the most part up and down you saw the areas people do want to protect their their their property.

35:23Okay. Ms. Starkey.

35:26Um so um Commissioner Mariano, I I live on the water. That's I I I my neighbors are the people who don't want this. My my fellow Gulf Harbor residents, there's a very very few who do want this. I met with The H O W C C OAs? Uh community, you know, in the Gulf Harvest we don't have an HOA. We have a um voluntary um um I can't even remember what COA is it stands for right

35:56now. Oh civic association. And um they are very concerned about this and while there are a few that want to cover their boats, I feel This is my community, the majority don't. And if you want to cover your boat, you can cover your boat without all you have to do is put a cover on it. I have showed this board before and I'm happy to show it. If you again, if you take Google Earth and you go down the coast again and around the

36:26state of Florida, the vast majority do not allow covered boats, uh covers on their docks for the purposes I stated before. And I think it's a dang dangerous to to make To change this ordinance. I think we need to leave it how it's been and protect the property values and the lives on on the coast. So um Uh Yeah, so I I'm in disagreement. I think the majority of people do not want their views obstructed. That's why they they live on

36:56the water, they love their view. Mr.

36:59Chairman Mariano.

37:00A real eyesore.

37:02Mr. Chairman Mariano. I think Going back if there is a current ordinance in place, then they should be enforcing that current ordinance. And I know that something was changed when I was not here. But I think they be should be enforcing the current ordinance and then if they do plan to change the ordinance in the future, then they can rebuild later on.

37:25And um Mr. Chairman, I'm gonna agree with uh Commissioner uh They We have We have many structures that were built without any um permits, any um uh building construction services, you know, no one's gone out there to look at these. And and frankly, we have a company that put them up knowing that they were illegal. And and we and sadly we watched it happen in

37:55our community. And it's really frustrating that people are thumbing our noses at the law. And I think it's I think that's a problem. Um So I would agree that these illegal structures need to come down. And hopefully um they'll just buy a canvas cover and throw it over their boat. if they want want it to be more protected. The boats are made to be out in the elements. And uh and again I encourage you to To go take a Google Earth trip around the coast and you'll see what I'm talking about.

38:25Right.

38:26Mr. Moore.

38:28Yeah, and I can and I appreciate Commissioner Mariano and the and some of the constituents in the area about protecting boats and and I I get it. You know, I've had boats, owned boats and things like that. Um, but I what I will say is I I did have a meeting, I think it was last week, I think last Thursday, um, you know, on the record with a pretty large group of residents from the coast. Um, and they were adamantly opposed to it and speaking on uh and um in support of some of their other residents as well in

38:58representing them. So I think about going up and down the coast and Thankfully throughout the years we've had some opportunities to go up and down the coast. Um most recently I was over in Palm Beach and in West Palm area about a month ago. They don't allow covers there. And when we talk about the prices of in Fort Lauderdale, Miami, and that'll get to our coast too. We think about the price of those boats. Now we have some people with some really nice boats over here, but you know, that's a very wealthy area as well open and they've got You know, I

39:28think that's a good thing The pretty some pretty expensive boats there and they don't they don't allow it. Because it they're the the fear is of getting obstructing that view. And you think about unfortunately how some of our canals were built many, many years ago in Pasu County. They are very, very skinny canals. Right. Um, I spent some time going up in Down some of the canals. I won't name which which ones because I don't want to give up my fishing spots, but um there's some good fishing spots in within some of those residential canals. Um, and they're really,

39:58really, really scanty. You cannot even turn a boat around in many of those, especially even a even a lily, uh, you know, a 20, 24 foot boat. You can't you cannot turn that thing around. So It it it would it it can and it will obstruct those views and those areas. And if you look at the elevation of the homes in that area, they're elevated very high because of the I guess that would be has something to do with the flood the floodplain, if I'm not correct. Um So they're up higher. So what you'll do is you'll end

40:28up looking down a lot of those canopies. So you're not going to see under them. Now there may be some areas, and then I don't want to say may, there are some areas in Florida, especially when you go up in the northwestern portions of Florida. You know, when you get up maybe more to Crystal River and north of that, where um they're just different. You know, the elevations are different. Um and they may be able to pop possibly see under them. I'm not saying they can, but it's it's it's different. Um so that's my fear. You know, again, you know, I I see it St.

40:59Pete um uh Pinellas County Um Hillsboro County Um and again I talked about Palm Beach, Miami, places like that over the east coast. I can't speak to the northeast northeastern part of Florida 'cause I've spent a whole lot of time up there. They they don't allow it either. It just it i it it really we talk about safety too. That's Commissioner Starkey mentioned the possibility when you have some of these very tight houses that you can literally reach out your window and almost touch the next one and the docks are that close

41:29too. So safety is obviously a big consideration as well. I don't want to downplay that. But I think the big one is just obstructing those views. So given somebody buys a home and now a waterfront property and they want to have be able to see down that canal and possibly see the sunset, let's be honest, they paid for it. Um, and now there's a possibility of them losing it. So I appreciate people wanting to protect them. Again, somebody that has, you know, and does own vessels wants to protect them as much

41:59as possible, but at the same time, um mine's literally on a trailer outside in a storage place. right now as well. And so that's just my thought and again I appreciate some some of the people that want to have it done. I think, you know, there are opportunities to buy the covers you can buy nowadays. are really, really good. When I say covers, they have ones that just drape over the boat, not a cover on a dock. The one you an actual boat cover you purchase, snap on the boat possibly,

42:29or do it uh or other ways. Um, they're they're pretty high tech nowadays. And um it's not like the old throwing old tarp over the boat anymore. you know, the opportunity to keep a pretty snug and fit that can protect the inside of those boats. Just again, my opinion.

42:45Majority of the people I've talked to uh do not want the covers. Uh they wanna deal with with the covers that you put actually on the boat snaps or whatever. So I actually have a boat and home aside so I I

42:59They don't allow 'em up there, do they?

43:00Do

43:00they

43:00have

43:01covers?

43:01Well you can have uh up there they have some covers over boats. I actually have a a deck over my boat. But

43:08your lots are different there.

43:11And the lots and all are different. I'm on a canal rather than the river. So I'm just off the river. But um I do have snap on cover on my boat, protect it. So Yeah. It's um I don't necessarily like it all the time, but I do it because it does protect the main thing you gotta protect, the boat itself is fine out out in the weather and and some, but it's the upholstery that the sun will eat up and just and it'll dry it until it it you know, starts breaking apart. But

43:41um and that's what people are trying to protect. So But uh majority of people I've talked to wanted that. I I have a little I don't know exactly what we should be doing about. The ones that were put up illegally. But They shouldn't have been put up number one, so Yeah.

44:00There's some back in the day. Apologize up Mr. Chairman. There I know there was some, I think many, many years ago, maybe, that before there was any type of ordinance that they possibly went up, if I'm not correct, which I now you gotta f now you gotta figure out when when were they do when were they put up though, right? Mr.

44:17Chairman, I guess that that's relatively easy in terms of if you know what the date is. So from two thousand and ten forward is clear that this board prohibited Down. Um,

44:36these are mute.

44:38Um is that we we brought that question for word because there was an enforcement action in in Gulf Harbors. Um so That would be that would that's the bright line. We had and we in fact had looked at what had been built. prior to that date. But Ms. Sims is the enforcement person, so I will let her

45:05Mm-hmm.

45:09Uh Christy Sims County Attorney's Office. Um yes. At this point we we need to decide is the planning staff going to continue to go down this road drafting this proposed ordinance, or does a majority of the board want to keep the current regulations prohibiting them on the coastal areas in place? If so Uh uh county staff has done a survey. They know

45:39which ones are illegal. Um I am very confident that Everyone was told that they were erecting them at their own peril, and we have not given out any permits for any of these canopies or covers. And so Patrick Moore and I with the County Attorney's Office would be happy to work with uh building and construction services staff to Bring

46:09up some actions to get the illegal canopies that have been erected taken down. But we need first and foremost to know: does the board want everybody to continue with this project? Really doesn't make sense for us to go tell somebody to take their canopy down if then the board is gonna turn around and say, Yeah, okay, we'll allow them on under what circumstances. Um,

46:40you know, I think that Um Mr. Pintos, going back to the beginning, he said that we need to first identify what a feasible ordinance might look like, then decide on enforcement. And what I'm hearing is three members of the board saying They don't want to change.

47:02That's that's four members saying that actually. So I would call the question. Mr. Chairman Mariano,

47:10do you need a motion? If you'd like to make a motion to abandon the ordin that abandon the previous direction that the board wishes to proceed with an amendment to the land development code to allow

47:24Right.

47:25Hovers over dots.

47:26That's my motion.

47:27Well.

47:29Nice.

47:32Oh I thought no, I thought Jeff was finishing up something. No, that's a good one. That

47:36would be the motion. Yeah. Motion and second.

47:38Yeah, I second.

47:40Alright, I got a motion second. Mr. Chairman Mariano. Mr. Mariano.

47:45Jack Mariano. Thank you. Um I I just want to say again. Um You know, I I know you get to a lot of people tell you uh that they don't see them. They're afraid of what can do the community. But there's also other people in there that do think it's a good idea to be able to protect the boats. But I will tell you, I think overwhelmingly the people up in the Hudson area from Sea Pines, Leisure Beach, um That whole area up there, they do want to be able to protect their boats. Uh, I was asking Terry earlier that

48:16maybe we should do like a public hearing meeting uh out in the public to do maybe go to the realtor building or some other type of thing. And let's get people in front of us to let them tell us what they think. Uh a lot of people, and I was comfortable bringing this idea forward to the board this way, as opposed to just doing the public hearing in front of the board. Board of public input at this stage. So when the next speech came forward the people could be better versed that, okay, this is coming forward, we're gonna go forward. I think if you shortcut it right now and don't

48:46bring it as a as a public hearing, uh you're not gonna hear from a lot of citizens that have uh pretty strong opinion about it.

48:56Mr. Chairman Mariano.

48:57I have two comments. I think we should enforce the current ordinance up until the day we do decide. to change it or update it because the ones that were built illegally were still built illegally, so they should be in the code should be enforced on those. And then if we still wanna have a public hearing, then move forward with that. But as of now, there should not be any What I'm hearing is there should not be any covered docs. out there right now because it is still illegal and code should be enforcing what is the code is

49:27saying.

49:28Mr. Jim. Um, I appreciate Commission Commissioner Mariano's um words, but again, I'll reiterate, I live on the water. I've met with many um of my constituents that live on the water. The vast, vast majority do not want their views obstructed and to be nervous if the storm is coming, if they can even go outside safely. Um And so we had a workshop on this already. Um I think there's this

49:58is been talked and talked and talked about out there. And I think it's pretty clear that um The majority don't want it. And I would, again, we're under discussion. We have a vote to not move forward on it. We have an item on the floor to not move forward with changes to the ordinance that uh Commissioner Hildebrand enacted in 2010 because we didn't have any rules and um they were starting to have problems in Gulf Harbors and the the civic association had to take people to court

50:28themselves. Um it's very expensive. And um so so the county commission back then. Um I think it was unanimous. Um Pass this ordinance and I see no reason to change it.

50:42Okay. We have a motion and a second on the floor. Mr.

50:46Chairman M just just to clarify the commissioner's the Commissioner's comments. The county had always taken the position that docks were prohibited. We clarified that position in 2010.

50:59All right. Thank you.

51:00Okay.

51:02So by rope all vote. Yeah.

51:07District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

51:13Yeah.

51:15District One, Chairman Oakley.

51:16Aye. Motion passed four four one. Okay. This time we

51:24need to discuss Do we need to make a motion on how what we want code enforcement to do or or you now you just have to enforce the

51:33We're gonna enforce the we're gonna enforce the ordinance as written.

51:41Okay. Okay. All right.

51:46Okay.

51:47These are airplane.