Lakewood Villas, PVAS No. 3354 (Regular) — Board of County Commissioners — Board Initiated Public Hearing — $1,432,692.00
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionContinued
Approved to continue the item to the May 18, 2021 BCC Meeting at 1:30 p.m. in New Port Richey by a roll call vote.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Mar 23, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Mar 23, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PW-21-0015 in full →PW-21-0015 was taken up 2 times between Mar 23, 2021 and May 18, 2021, continued 1 time — this is appearance 1.
- Mar 23, 2021BoardP59▶Continuedthis item
- May 18, 2021BoardP64▶Approved
What was said
Machine transcription of 31m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 72% of 205 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Item P fifty nine was published in the Tampa Bay Times on February seventeenth, twenty twenty one.
P double twenty one dash zero zero one five.
Uh Lakewood Villas, PVAS number 3354. This is also a 2015-16 storm damage road, which was temporarily repaired in 2017 by Chip SEAL. This is board-initiated PVAS project. There are 11 roads in this project, counter-maintained PAVE, 305 lots, sorry, 305 lots, 310.79 ERUs. Estimated cost for the project is um $1.4 million. Maximum cost per ERU is
$4,609. Discounted amount is
$282,251. Maximum cost per ERU after the discount is $3,707. The repayment is over a 10-year period and the interest rate is at 3.25% interest.
I believe I have a couple of photographs.
And this is the chip seal and it appear it appears this is the temporary fix. So sometimes folks will look at it and say, Oh, this is in good condition, but this is what a chipsy look like.
Yes. Okay. I'm I'm I'm done. Does anybody on the WebEx to speak to this Adam?
Yes, we have two people on WebEx.
You get chance. But Okay.
Is
it addressed? The first person is Sally Ann Dalton.
Yeah.
Um
Here, can you hear me?
Yes, ma'am.
Please state your name
and address
for the record. Thank you. Sally Ann Dalton and I own [address removed]
You may proceed.
Yes, well I am um Obviously speaking to oppose the repaving of Lakewoodville roads. Um I just completely object to it. I do I know you've been talking about the chipping and repaving that was done. Ours was done in 2017. That certainly wasn't my choice. My road was in good condition before they put it down. And those rocks actually made it very uncomfortable for everybody on the road. There
was a guy who lived down the end of the street who had a motorcycle. The rocks you keep shaking your head, Councilwoman, but it's true, you don't live on my street. I'm I have been asked to speak. And I'm speaking my truth. If you don't believe me, that's fine, but you don't have to keep shaking your head. It's disrespectful. And and also I think you're been disrespectful anyway. You're talking about things that are being very vindictive. Well if you don't do this then we're not gonna help you. You know, we are really trying
here. This
is
I would like for you to speak to the road.
This is a uh COVID economy, and people are barely paying their house insurance, and you want them to pay $3,700? For a um for a repaving. There's no need to repave these roads. They have been asking to put new sewer lines. We're all on septic systems here and they have been asking to put sewer lines in this area for some time. We know that's going to happen sometime in the near future. So we would just be re We would be digging
up these roads that they're repaving now. So I'm asking is they deny the project and maybe put it down the road several years once they put the um once they put the uh sewer lines in. The other thing is on the letter that I have in front of me, it says the Lakewood Villa Paving Assessment Project is a resurfing project, resurfacing project. The predominant condition of the streets within this project are poor. The Department of Public Works Engineering
evaluated the road-related stormwater drainage as part of this project is not recommended. uh as any improvement. That's the only reason we should have anything redone is because there is, unlike some of the other people that were saying they didn't have any flooding in the area, there are a few areas In the repaving project that does have flooding conditions. I completely agree with that. If they were re-engineering that area, then there would be a reason to repave.
We have not the sewers aren't put in yet. They're not going to re-engineer any of the areas that are flooding. So to me, it makes no sense to resurface right now. Not at all. It's just a bad time to do it. I mean, with the covet economy, there are a lot of people who can't even pay their house insurance and you want 'em to pay three thousand dollars. Or $3,700 to get things reimpaved. It's just a bad time for your constituents. And you just don't seem to have
any any compassion for what might be going on here. The roads are not that bad that they need to be
repaved
unless they're being re-engineed.
Your time's up. Thank you.
The
next person.
The next citizen is uh Chloe Ann Alexander.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Just point of order real quick, if you don't mind. Just a just a reminder, you know, uh but when we when we talk to the board, let's just, you know, make sure that you know their statements are made on the subject matter and not against uh uh a commissioner. It doesn't mean we all all agree all the time on every anything either, but at the same time we uh we need that mutual respect. Oh yeah.
Ms. We can still work closely as the roads get paved with the water if they're still flooding, right?
Ms. Alexander, could you please state your name and address for the record?
Is Alexander?
I think I hear him there somewhere.
She's not gonna speak.
Ms. Alexander, please state your name and address for the record.
Can you hear me? Now we can, yes.
Okay, my name is Chloanne Alexander, [address removed]. I also oppose this project. Um I don't believe that the roads are in that bad a condition. Um I also say that until we get course Um, I can't see any point in this. We're all in septics. Um We need both. use paving and and sewer,
but if you pave now then you're gonna have to tear it up to put in sewers, which we need. So it doesn't make sense to me. It seems like you've got the cart before the horse.
Good point.
I guess that's all I have to say.
Okay. Thank you for your comments. Yes, ma'am. Good.
Mr. Chairman, question? There's more is there another one? There's more. Um I believe there's some people at the kiosk e in regards to emails, I did not have any emails to read on the record. They were for file only. And my understanding is that there are people at the kiosk.
Yeah. Uh we'll go to the kiocks.
Yeah.
Hi, this is Judy Martin. I'm at [address removed]. I also also have [address removed]. They reasoned. Hold up. Funnel Drive Due six months ago. Going to the eight. Well
One one second. Um why is our mic not working out there? And I stop her time. I think we need to start her over again. But why is it going in and out?
Okay, can you start over again, please? Thank you.
I'm Judy Markson. I'm at [address removed]. Also own [address removed]. Just sold a home on Runnell Drive six months ago due to the extreme flooding that exists on that road right by the drain. The water goes up to the garage door of that home. And for the last five years it happened, and even after they did repairs, it happened. The water sits in that street for about four or five days because
those drain waters go into the lake. The lake is already full, doesn't take on any more water. It's supposed to drain into a little three-foot creek down on the other side of Cypress Knoll, but it can't drain into that, that's full and overgrown with lots of stuff. Um before I I I add a few more comments, um we've we the residents of this area do oppose this project at this time because there's some serious
actions that need to be taken. The roads are not in really bad condition thanks to the chip and seal project that y'all did. We've been there for 11 years and seeing really um good results with these roads, except for the flooding. But I do have a question because this voting process, my concern at this point for all these projects, is that you may not be hearing from all the residents because I am not familiar with the voting process. We didn't get asked to return anything
in the mail for Lakewood Village, none of the residents. I walked the entire area over the last month talking to residents. residents looking at the the roads in all of these these ten streets. Seven of which are ports and very low volume traffic. None of these residents are for this project that I talked to, and a lot of them are uh pretty hostile about it. But anyway, um the voting process for Lakewood
Villas does not exist. It was also very difficult to get connected to today's hearing. Um, I was told by commissioner staff and by county staff there's no 50% rule. That's that's not something that's real. It doesn't matter if you get a petition, you'd probably be wasting your time by county and commissioner staff. So I'm my concern is you may not be hearing. From all the residents. And lastly, because the hearings during the day, work
day, people can't connect. And there's a good majority of elderly people who do not have the tech technical skills and assistance to get connected. Having said all that, I think there's some very important decision factors that you you should consider using in. Proceeding with or objecting these paving projects.
Ma'am, that's that's all your time. Thank you for your comments.
My name is Carolyn Rondez, [address removed]. I've lived there four years. Forty years I'll put up with flooding in there. Uh just about ready to go in my house, but my neighbors cross the street, it made it in their house. They put uh they have done a lot of work over there going to put condos in across the street. So it's higher than and it comes in my front door, it comes in their houses. So if you put the paving
in, you're wasting our money, your time. And the reason being is the water's going to take care of it. They're going to destroy the lactop. So, you know, until you do something about improving Lakewood Villas as far as flooding, you're wasting our time and your time.
Okay. Thanks, Mm. Yes. Thank you for your comments. Thank you.
Is that it?
No, there's a
more
No. I'm Kathy Norton, [address removed]. I do want to say that I definitely oppose. To speak uh directly about our subdivision alone, yes, there was from Arma a couple areas. that did have flooding issues, but it's certainly not this whole area at all. Most of the roads are fine. In fact, when the chip and seal went through, and I sent in an email with pictures for you guys that evidently had not been received.
But you also put through Yellow double yellow lines and reflectors. We've got people cutting through all the time from Main Street from Rowan. We are a shortcut for all kinds of traffic. We are a small subdivision with 25 foot wide roads, and you've made us a racetrack or that having that happen. We've got people driving 40-50 miles down the road. So it's not just our traffic at all. In fact, I was just Mentioned today that someone had a car hauler.
Watch the car hauler, rode down our road. That's not local traffic. So the main roads that are in contention are Um cyber snell Park and and um and Ronald. And those are the three roads that people use to cut through, not only from the main streets, but also from, and this was also in the attachment that I sent you all. Um all of these other subdivisions. You can't see if you had the attachments, if it was sent in and it was set in on time. Those are all showing the traffic
patterns. And it's all about those three roads. Now, again, what's failed a couple of areas? And yes, there is drain, there are drainage issues that need to be addressed. If they're not, there's no point in putting down a new road. Overall, they're in good shape. I would love to have sewers. That's something I think we could get agreement on, and people would be willing to pay for. But in general, this system, the Pasco County is spotted.
It is not the norms of the state at all.
is about traffic circles and lights and speed bumps. The County Ordinance ninety four. The state uh only makes this an alternate payment option. the assessments that you're doing. None of the other, please look at the way other counties are doing it because everybody, all roads have a lifespan. All roads will fail. Everybody needs to be chipping in towards the roads, even if it's a special assessment like you have for sewer and stormwater on the annual
property tax bill. If everybody spreads out the cost, then over time all the roads get taken care of. So um thank you.
Okay. Thank you for your comment.
There's no one else at the kiosk.
All right, thank you.
Um so if there's no one else, if I could speak for something. Um first of all, um I appreciate that they think their roads look great because They're driving on that very thin chip seal right now. And like I said, um We didn't pick roads because they were in good condition to add more money, spend more money on. We picked them because they were undrivable. My brother just bought a house on Cypress Knoll and I texted
him here and he said, Please, please fix the road. Um but I do have a question for you concerning, you know, they were talking about that they're on septic. and talking about going to sewer. And um I I do think in this situation, when I was at Tampa Bay Water, The city of New Port Richey did a presentation. And I believe that this neighborhood is part of something called Orangewood. Is that correct?
So I'm trying to confirm that. It's definitely not Pasco County Attorney Service Area.
Yeah. My understanding is is they are um about to take this neighborhood onto the New Port Richey water system. Now I don't know what that means as far as digging up the roads. If that is true Um I it makes sense that we don't want to dig up the road. So but I don't know if that's where the pipes are going. I I don't know what the story is, so
So Angley, forgive me, but I I think in the past we have coordinated PVAS projects, even though they've been approved Uh to to I I I'm thinking of Lake Page. Right. Where we we had an approved PVAS and we actually delayed the physical work by a year or two to allow utilities actually to do just that, upgrade upgrade the water lines. So it's not an all or nothing kind of thing. But we could certainly coordinate with Orangewood if that's the same thing.
Is the closed work a part of this PVAS?
We did uh road related drainage. Road related. Not the basin, the entire basin drainage.
Did that take care of some of that flooding they're talking about?
It's just what impacts the road. So we're talking about ditches, culverts, um things like that.
Okay.
I I am a little nervous for the people to wait. It I mean th they have to cross their fingers that we don't get a big storm and it demolishes their chip seal this during the storm season, but I think I think we need to see what the city of New Port Richey has planned For that area.
And it was on L VW. And then after ten years, the city of New Port Richey had taken it over. And that's how they had accumulated it. I haven't heard anything about City of New Port Richey transferring it over to a s drainage system or a sewer system, anything like that. It's on its own self sufficient community.
Yeah, I think that's about to change. They're buying orange wood.
Okay. So but that's been The city of New Port Richey has had that for over probably five years now.
I just don't know if in the purchase of Orangewood that means they're putting new pipes in or if they're just taking over that system. But I feel like we should continue this till we have that answer.
Good point.
Okay.
I also know those roads do flood very early on rental.
Yeah, I think we got a a few good reasons why we need to continue this. Um could be another great opportunity for Commissioner Fitzpatrick to get to know her residents better. Um
I know
them quite
well out
there.
Um but but I think you know with with the sewer coming in, if that's possibility then obviously that's gonna tear the roads and we wanna definitely coordinate with that. On the on the other side of the road on Mass Ave, we've got Magnolia Valley where we're we're in the midst of designing a project. I don't know if Mike Carbella can update us to where we are right now as far as that design, what what percentage we're at.
Yeah, I think we're getting ready to enter third party review on that, or are we at thirty percent?
Yes.
Yeah, we're at we're at that review stage with the water management district.
Okay, so I think co coordinating with that too might be good. There may be an I don't know if Mike, are those systems do they connect at all? Would would would like fixing Magnolia Belly help them at all or does water flow a different way?
I'm not familiar enough with the basin to answer that. I'd I'd have to get back with you on that one.
I'm pretty sure that water goes north.
All right,
so if it goes north, then that's even more reason to kind of continue this to make sure we're gonna get the stormwater done before we fix the roads that don't flood out later. I'm I'm good with
it. You say that, Jack, but if the roads
Well I was gonna say even if we motion to approve, then like Mr. Karbala had stated, they will make sure it is timed after they complete the water mitigation phases. Because we're gonna have another one of these coming up. in another month or so for the east side of Lakewood Villas, which is Ritchie Lakes. And then the water mitigation also goes all the way from Massachusetts all the way north to
my other street.
So
are are you saying you want
to go
ahead and approve this now but have them wait to do the project until they do the water mitigation project together?
By the water mitigation project you're referring to the city of Newport Ritchie with the utilities, because
The the the flooding type project was a is a different is a different animal all altogether. I mean these road projects when we come in we address as Ainsley stated road related drainage and that is simply the water that is generated as runoff from the road itself. Property flooding and those are are much larger holistic issues. that really are independent of of paving a road. Um So that's just
The water flooding that they're talking about on Runnell Drive actually when it goes around the curve it runs all the way up into the people's houses. And you can't drive down Runnel because of the flooding is so severe in that neighborhood.
So I I if if that's related from the road runoff, then then as public works goes through there, regrades, drich, ditches, they'll they'll do some engineering analysis of of the existing culverts and where that water goes. That that type of that type of drainage is addressed. But if if we're talking basin related flooding, because it is a just a naturally low lying area, those are more comprehensive public works type projects that we do in conjunction with the water management district. Those are focused on property.
I think it's more along the lines of the water dr runs down certain streets into that one little house or those few houses right there on rental. Around the curve.
Yeah, that should be part of road related drainage is what it sounds like to me.
Thank you.
So then I would do a motion to approve the project.
Because that would fix that problem. That would fix the flooding. Okay. Well I'll second that.
So this isn't the one you're abstaining. It was a different one, I'm sorry.
Yeah, Mr. Chairman, so
Deal with the motion maker for the
do wait do I have a conflict of interest on this project? Because I have a house on the opposite side of Cyprus, not in this project but on the other side. Oh well then.
Which is not part of this project.
It's not part of this project. Okay.
Is not part of the project that's being assessed. You do not have a conflict. The seconder, however, just said her brother lives in
Yeah,
he just
bought a home.
He is he in the assessed area?
He is moving there, yeah, as we speak. But
she can't. But that's my brother,
it's not me.
And so he's a relative, is he not? Yeah. And so it's a special private gain or loss to you or your relatives.
Okay.
So I'm not sure.
You'll have to abstain this time.
Okay.
Oh can I make a mo I would motion to approve.
Move staff motion to approve the moving staff recommendation to approve the to approve this project. Yes.
At the yes, as as long as it's at the same time as they fix the water. The course, yeah.
Okay. Mr. Chairman M I know I know we all want to get out of here, but Mr. Chairman Mariano There was no vote on this project though? No
board initiated project.
There was never a P VAS vote.
No, not
a board initiated project. It's it's another one of your storm drainage repair projects where the board said we'll come in and repair your roads but we're gonna come back in a few years and PVAS you to do them right. Yes. That's they all agreed on it's that's three of these today we're like that. We have a couple more coming up. You approved a couple in the last several months. So I think there's twelve of them total. Yes. The the board spent the money, as Commissioner Starkey said, spent the money that could have gone other places in the county to repair these roads. With the
condition that the board would come back and do a special assessment to repair them correctly. Right.
Mr. Chairman Mariano?
Yes, sir.
I mean being that this is board initiated, um and one of the big issues was we fixed these roads because of flooding. We haven't fixed the flooding. I'm not convinced that we're gonna fix the flooding with just what we're gonna do for improvement. I'm not gonna be supporting what's going if we go this way right now. Uh I think we should To go out there and and study both, study the scores, study the whole system. I think it's just too early.
They've only chip sealed it, correct? They've never did any water mitigation or w water storm management. So when they go back and do the actual roads, you guys are going to address the flooding issues so it the flooding does not go into these people's houses.
Road related drainage. Road related drainage.
So and you will make the roads so that if they they have water on them, they'll still be able to drive to their house.
Roads and water don't mix, so we'll get the water off the road as quick as quick quick as possible. So that's in terms of the um road-related drainage. But as um uh uh Mike said, if it's the basin drainage, that's not what was being addressed. This is not a stormwater problem. project. Right. But
you're gonna get the roads, I mean, where it's wet, you're gonna probably do you have full depth reclamation on parts of this?
No, this this one is um um Millen Repave. Melon Repay.
Mr. Chairman
Mariano. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.
But to Commissioner Oakley's point We still are going to have issues with flooding. Are we not?
So Commissioner, again we we we have flooding all across the county. Well
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this specific project. Let's let's stick with this specific project.
All the water floods down into Runnell Drive where it floods these people's houses. So you're going to redirect that water
Good afternoon, Commissioner. Um so you know, um three years ago we never did road related drainage when we are fixing roads in Pasco. Uh, since that time we've implemented this program that when we are fixing roles.
around the road, the flooding of the road, and we address those through improving any swells, uh if there are any ditches, uh, replacing pipes. Uh and this is a program that we've been doing. It's very different from the big stormwater capital projects where we fix stormwater issues basin based. You know, if we take the same approach then we are not going to fix any road in Pasco. Because if we are willing to fix the bigger drainage basin issues
then then no road is gonna be fixed. Uh and and and I think the current approach is the right approach to take. We are gonna address the road related drainage on the road. Any road that we fix. We've been doing that for the past three years.
Okay.
Okay.
Wait a minute.
Brantford, what I'm hearing you saying you're affecting the road related drainage. That means the water doesn't sit next to the road to destroy the base, right? Exactly. Okay, so you're gonna get the water out of there. There may still be Large events that flood. That's what you can't fix right now.
We can't fix that.
But in general, the normal events the water won't sit next to the base. We'll get the water out of there. Exactly. And that's really what damages the base.
Yes, that's what damages the base. That's what you're saying.
Mr. Mariano.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On on a regular project that Brantford will do, Brantford could stay up here if you would. I believe what they do is they study the whole project. They get in front of the citizens. They say, look, not only we're gonna fix your roads, but here's what we're gonna do with the drainage, here's how we're gonna study it, here's what we're gonna identify it. We just did a project in Bear Creek. They spent a lot of time out there, spent a lot of time fixing the drainage stuff first to get the water off the road. pro properly. We're not doing that with this boat initiated. I really think Commissioner Fitzpatrick ought to think about just starting this all over again. And
let's let them start from start to finish, get the public involved, let them know what we're doing so we can get full support
or better support, better education. Yes. Uh Commissioner Mariano, uh every road that we fix since we've been doing this for the past three years, we look at the drainage issues. Uh we have engineers
Three years ago we didn't have um uh engineers for roads. Uh they were all stormwater capital project engineers. So we do we are gonna look at this road uh and um and fix any drainage issues uh relating to those.
Um a qu a question on when this would appear on people's tax bill, um, because I think that was a valid question, but I think you'll see that it's not for a number of years. So uh it
if uh this project gets approved this year um and we pave it uh this fiscal year. More than likely it will show up on twenty uh twenty three. Not this November, but twenty twenty three.
I would like to withdraw my motion to approve and move a motion to continue.
Do you uh do you have a time that you want to continue it too? Are we in May?
May eighteenth.
We keep
it on the same day,
we have no problem.
Everything else is smart April twenty.
The one before that. Well it's on this side of the county.
Yeah what
what
date?
May eighteenth w w is the is the New Port Richey meeting in May. Okay. Exactly. Unless you want to go to June.
And we got a second. So I roll call vote to continue to May 18th.
District two, Commissioner Moore.
Aye.
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano. Aye.
Aye.
District one, Chairman Oakley.
Aye. Motion pass five zero. That's all the items I have on the book. Mr. Chairman Mariano