Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Two Rivers MPUD Master Planned Unit Development – Hickory Hills Land Company – Rezoning Request from A-C Agricultural District and A-R Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District to Allow 6,400 Residential Dwelling Units, 1,335,000 Square Feet of Office/Target Industry, 1,355,000 Square Feet of Industrial, and 630,000 Square Feet of Retail Uses on Approximately 3,405 Acres – South East Pasco County, North of South County Line Road between Morris Bridge Road and U.S. Highway 301

23:46Item P111 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on August 4th, 2021. Thank you, Commissioners. Jessica

23:53Cole with the Planning and Development Department, current planning division. A few housekeeping items. There were several exportes from the applicants submitted on this item. They have been submitted to the clerk's office. And you folks should have also received the modified revised conditions of approval for this item prior to this afternoon session. Item P111 is PDD 217512 in the name of Hickory Hills Land Company, requesting a change in zoning from AC Agricultural District and AR Agricultural Residential District to an MPUD

24:24Master Plan Unit Development District to allow for 6,400 residential dwelling units, 1,335,000 square feet of office target industrial, 1,335,000 square feet of industrial. Industrial and 630,000 square feet of retail uses on approximately 3,405 acres. The property is located in southeast Pasco County, north of South County Line Road, between Morris Bridge Road and US Highway 301. Next slide. The subject

24:54parcels currently reflect their original zonings of AC and AR. Next slide. And this is an exhibit of our future land use as it exists. Next slide. The subject parcels are currently vacant with agricultural pursuits. The site is in the South Market and the urban service expansion areas, but is outside of all the rural areas. On April 20th, 2021, the Board of County Commissioners adopted a comprehensive plan amendment, text amendment for the two river sub-area policy, and a map amendment

25:24to the highway. Vision map plan. Next slide. Land Development Code 402.2 C eight specifies that variations from the Land Development Code may be reviewed and approved by the Plan Commission and Board during public hearing held on any application. For MPUD zoning amendments, these variations shall be allowed where the BCC specifically finds that this particular case, the proposed variations meet or exceed the intent of the land development code. The applicant is seeking the following variations. From section 905.1e,

25:55neighborhood parks, the amount of land required. This section of the code requires all neighborhoods provide at least one acre of park.

26:05And any Dwelling units over 100 would require one one hundredth of an acre of park. The natural the parks and recreation and natural resources staff analyzed the proposal and identified that the district park that is being provided with this petition will serve the adjacent residential subdivisions and that therefore those subdivisions will not be required to have a neighborhood park because of their proximity, the one mile, between the district park. Any neighborhood within two miles will be required to have a 50%

26:36will be allowed a 50% reduction in the total park area. In addition, multifamily parcels will be allowed to will be allowed to have Upland acreage calculated based on the area of the land proposed for multifamily rather than the units being proposed in the multifamily. The proposal is ten percent of the upland acreage for these multifamily projects. Next slide. The next deviation is from section 901.6 street design and dedication requirements, and it basically establishes

27:07the classifications for design standards for streets. The Type I B subdivision collector roads are required to provide sixty feet of right-of-way with twelve foot travel lanes, including a bicycle lane. They also prohibit individual driveway connections. Per staff analysis, the site contains many wetlands and constricts the design of these roadways. The Type 1B subdivision collector road, serving 201 to 400 equivalent residential units, can provide all necessary improvements within the reduced right-of-way width The conceptual plan provided

27:37during the review demonstrated that the Type I B subdivision collector road serving the two hundred and one to four hundred equivalent residential units will not function as true collector roadways. Therefore, allowing for individual driveway connections along these roadways will not conflict with their ability to function as a collector within this area. The applicant is proposing to provide 55 feet of rideway with 11-foot travel lanes and an eight-foot multi-use path in lieu of the bicycle lanes to accommodate the necessary improvements and avoid impacting the wetlands

28:07on site. Next slide. Section 901.2 Transportation Corridor Management requires projects preserve and or dedicate necessary right-of-way for transportation corridors. Per staff analysis, the required right-of-way along Moorish Bridge Road varies from 200 to 166 feet. From the Hillsborough County line to State Route 54 and requires four build-out lanes. The reduction in required right-of-way is supported by county staff in compliance with the twenty forty-five Long Range Planning Transportation Plan. Resolution

28:3819136. According to the 2045 Long Range Transportation Report, four lanes will facilitate the sufficient capacity along this segment of the roadway for Morris Bridge. And according to Resolution 19136, the required driveway is 124 feet with a four-lane in this urban area. Next slide. This rezoning petition is also seeking approval of connectivity plan, which specifies roadway, trail, and or pedestrian cross sections, design standards, and criteria that are proposed within the MPUD. Upon

29:08approval, the County Administrator or Designee is delegated authority to interpret and apply the connectivity plan to the preliminary plans and construction plans, including reasonable modifications and adaptations from the connectivity plan. Next slide. The proposed request has been reviewed and is found to be consistent with the Land Development Code and applicable provisions of the Comprehensive Plan. Next slide. This is an image of the proposed master plan and your next slide is the connectivity plan.

29:39Next slide. This item comes to you with staff and planning commission recommendation of approval subject to the conditions of approval in your revised packet.

29:51Mm-hmm.

29:55Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brussel Street, Tampa, Florida. I have been sworn. I'm here on behalf of Eisenhower Property Group and the Thomas family who will be the owners and developers of the subject and PUD. Eisenhower Property Group will be building the majority of the residential uses within the project and the Thomas family is retaining substantially all

30:25of the non-residential uses within the MPUD. As you all undoubtedly know, the Two Rivers project as such, now an MPUD, has been planned for many years. BOPSIERA had the site under contract back as far as 2008, started the planning work that culminated with sub-area policies adopted in the Comp Plan at that time. Subsequent to that, uh the board worked with the Thomas family, helped

30:55secure the funding for the first two lanes of State Road 56 of the extension to 301, and then Two Rivers was the largest part of the uh Additional surcharges that are imposed on developments in this area to pay for lanes three and four of that extension. So of the $26 million that the county has to pay back to the state infrastructure bank, 15 million of that comes solely from surcharges

31:26on development on two rivers. So projects been planned for some period of time. And subsequent to the DOT transaction in early 2016, the site was added to the urban service area and the South Market area, and the sub sub-area policies were updated. Then, as you all know, we updated the sub-area policies again within the last six months. So there's been a lot of planning work that's gone into this project leading up over a Period of years, really 13-14

31:57years. But what we're bringing to you today reflects a lot of thought and effort by a lot of parts of your staff, the school board, and particularly your natural resources, and the county attorney's office. And we believe that this project has been done the right way. And I'll just simply cite a few of the major things we're doing with this project in addition to paying back. Um surcharge money. We are accommodating a total of three schools within a very large school site

32:27on the north side of 56, a co-located 80-acre district park. A library site that could be shared by the schools in the county if they agree. We're also providing for a public safety site that the Sheriff's Office, fire, safety could all have space in, and as you heard, we're also creating a connectivity plan that provides for an integrated pedestrian and trail system with the entire within the overall context of the entire project. One of

32:57the biggest things that you have to remember about Two Rivers is it truly is a mixed-use project. The Thomas family's acreage that's being held back from where our client buys the residential is very substantial and it's basically the large areas when you get to the major nodes at Morris Bridge Road and 301. And within those areas we're per Programming up to 2.6 million square feet of employment generating uses. So

33:28this project's been set up correctly from the get-go. We're not shortchanging it, and we're going to create a lot of jobs along the way in addition to creating an overall great community. So I'd ask for your uh approval, and I'd simply say we did hear a few comments of Planning Commissioner Weightman. About concerns that residents had about off-site existing drainage issues. As you all know, we can't exacerbate any drainage issues that may exist in the area. Some of the complaints we heard

33:58were on the other side of Morris Bridge Road, which is not even in our basin, but we're here to answer any questions that you may have or members of the public may have. Thank you. Thank

34:08you. Uh anyone sign up on in person or on WebEx?

34:14No, no one's under me either.

34:16Anyone here in the audience wish to speak to this item? Coming forward.

34:23No in a second? Mm-hmm.

34:28When you line up then uh state your name and address for the clerk and also if you've been sworn.

34:34My name's Richard Gardado. I live on uh [address removed], which is on the uh north end of Morsh of uh Two River.

34:44Sorry, so can you put that map back up?

34:46Using?

34:46Not used. Can you put the map back up where we just took it in? Thank you.

34:49And sir, we just need to know on the record have you been sworn? One of my main concerns is have you been sworn?

34:55Have you been sworn?

34:56Yes, I still have problems. One of my major concerns is that I've been hearing rumors about access from this development to Chansey going through my neighborhood. Which consists of probably half a dozen dirt roads and some one or two paved roads. Okay. That is just gonna run everything in the neighborhood. Where's that? We're walking bikes. There are gonna be two

35:26hundred plus cars running down the road down front of my house. And it's not just me, it's gentlemen. Behind me here, he lives a couple roads down, he's gonna be dealing with the same thing. Now whether this is true or not, I don't know. Gentleman with the beard back there last meeting. Told me they're gonna make a net of road. An access room. It's a dirt road. And it's a private road. Granted public access, but it's a private road. And

35:58if they say are we going to improve it? Well if they improve it, are they going to keep improving it? What's exactly five, ten years from now? Yeah we can't take it. Probably not. Okay. And this also is going to put about 10,000 more cars. On our traffic. 10,000. That's 5,000 homes, two cars per house. That's 10,000 cars. They're on four-lane Marsh Bridge. This guy's gonna make a bigger parking lot. If you've ever been around down there, it can't

36:28handle the traffic that's there now. This is zoned for one house per acre now. And they want to make it 5,000 acres, 5,000 homes on 1,400 acres.

36:42It's just a little, do we really need that?

36:48It's all maybe only one more. Yeah. Thirty four hundred acres. Could be thirty-four hundred homes. They want to put five thousand homes in, plus industrial. Mm-hmm. They could do 3,400 homes now with not resolving anything.

37:05All right. Thank you, sir.

37:10Name and address and if you've been sworn.

37:11My name's John Barry. I'm the owner of uh [address removed], is up the Hills, Florida. And I have been sworn in. Okay. And my concern is they they've they've already put a gate at the end of our street, which is my understanding it's an easement that we gave and we paved property owners paved that street, and now they want to use it for construction access or connect it in. Of the main system, and I would oppose that due to the heavy equipment and danger to my family, my neighbors,

37:42and my pets. And we like to walk down our private street. We like to bicycle down our private street. My grandkids love to come over and hang out with me on our private street. We had, I don't know how many thousand pounds of cement trucks, delivery trucks. With heavy equipment, no telling who's going to be working there. They have no guarantee. These people cannot, I'm a construction worker supervisor, cannot guarantee who's actually going to be running up and down our street because they don't know who's going to be actually on their property. They don't background

38:12check or anything anything like that. So now we're going to bring in more dangerous people to our our our peaceful, nice neighborhood. I would eject it eject the next one.

38:27I guess that's my biggest concern. Okay.

38:30Thank you. All right. Thank you.

38:35Name and address if you've been thrown.

38:38My name's Teddy Taylor. I live at [address removed]. Right now I'm speaking gentlemen. Just got to talking. I have not been sworn in. I wasn't aware this is my first board meeting. So I haven't been sworn in. Can you just raise your

38:50right hand? Hold on. Hold on. Sorry, she'll swear you in.

38:54Just raise your right hand. Okay. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you, God.

39:00Yes, ma'am. Okay.

39:02Yeah.

39:02Um my property of butts exactly where that gate just went in. Okay. The gate was approved for the owners of the cattle ranch to feed their cattle as well as to mow the grass. So that was a given right-of-way permission from the people on the property adjacent to where you're where you're rezoning to just for the cattle ranch. Now that that property is switching hands, that permission of right-of-way is no longer

39:32void. First boy. So that gate can be blocked and no access can be allowed to the backside of that property before equipment.

39:44That gate has no longer serves its purpose and does not have access according to the permissions of the driveway.

39:52I'm just trying to make sure I understand that my rights as a landowner directly adjacent to what you're switching. Because that all that traffic is my driveway. Every bit of it. So just keep that in mind. We will be blocking that gate and restricting that right-of-way because that right-of-way is heated with our property, home three temporarily long ranch place Boulevard. So that is not an access for them to have to the property. Thank

40:23you very much and I appreciate your time.

40:25Thank you. Mr. Mr. Chairman? Sir? Could you show us on the map where that is, what we was talking about?

40:31Rex Place Boulevard, it's the next road over from the road that you have coming in. I think you have the one that you have zigzagging right at the high point of the curve at 56. Okay. If you zoom into that map.

40:50I think my property is but adjacent to that purple at corner, right up at the very top. Right next to where that road is coming over there.

40:58Yeah.

41:00North.

41:01Up top left? Yes

41:02sir. Up right. North side.

41:05Up top right?

41:06Top right. Not showing connection to that right now.

41:09Show me out. Yeah, point it out, somebody. Let him come over there and point on this

41:16line of red text right here at the hide point of that curve.

41:19Point on the point on the projector. Is that a projector or is that a computer? Uh narrow shoot.

41:23Can't we just put the path on that? Is there a least ground?

41:29Okay, I see where it says industrial commercial office parts.

41:35Yeah, I don't see a connection. I just

41:36no there's no connection, but there's a gate there and people have already been coming in and out of that property for the last couple of months. I I again my property is right there at that entrance. Okay.

41:47So I'm

41:47being told that we will not allow access

41:50Yeah.

41:50Okay, they don't want it. I'll let

41:52the applicant them for themselves speak, but I'm being told they don't want it.

41:55They don't want access to that road.

41:57Let I'll let the applicant say themselves.

42:00That's

42:00what I'm hearing. They'll

42:01come

42:01out and talk about it. They'll let them talk, but I don't I think we're I don't think they want access. Do you Mr. Chairman? Because I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna talk about the same issue. C can you break in and just allow them to s make that statement because that might fix some of the problems we're seeing real quick. Is that okay? That

42:17might hear

42:18some of the issues.

42:19Yeah, but I do have a question about access to the school and park sites from the north.

42:22We need to ask that to the applicant.

42:27The only access points you see up on the north are Highway Vision Road access points. Any other streets or roads up there we don't propose any access to and uh At least one of the access points that you see that's west of the wetland in the yellow area by where the school site is. All we're going to do is bring our road up to the northern end of our property. We know those roads are dirt. We don't need we didn't

42:58study access to those roads. We won't use them. We're only bringing them to the boundary of our property and they will stop. Yeah.

43:06So, Mr. Chairman Mariano. Yes. I have a question on that, because Clark, you know. My my preference was the school site was on the other side of the road but I was told that it being on the north side of the road it would access all that all that property to the north. So what is the route for everyone to get to the school and the park?

43:29There's a there's not shown on here because staff did not want it being shown excuse me. We had a conference call with the parks and the schools. There's another road that's going to come down in between the park and the school site that will provide cross connection between them, Commissioner Starkey. Parky, it's not part of a vision road because it's not going to extend up and to to the north. And that's why the next road to the east swings around the edge of the park and comes down

43:59to 56 because that's where parks want it. But there is another road just not shown on here that will run between those two that will provide connection to the park and to the school site.

44:10Okay, so they don't have to get on 56 from the north to access the school.

44:14Right.

44:19I'm happy I'd probably stand down though. Mr.

44:23Chairman Mariano's work was a little bit more.

44:29Yeah, we use this

44:30way.

44:30So

44:32name and address.

44:36I live on the [address removed] at Also. And one thing I'm here for, and I don't want nobody to know. Have you been sworn, sir? Have you been sworn? No.

44:47Swear everyone in who is in line who may not have been sworn in yet.

44:50Okay. So anyone who's here just to speak on this item, please raise your right hand. If you haven't been sworn already? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God? Yes, ma'am. Okay, thank you, sir. You may proceed.

45:03Okay. But all I was here for is just to make sure that my property is not bothered with everybody's

45:12main ground. I don't want to be involved in it. Mm-hmm.

45:16They can't grab the land.

45:18I I'm not I'm

45:19What I'm talking about is opening up the road in front of my property and having all those thieves and all run up and down the road when I'm nice and quiet by myself back in there.

45:31What what sir what road are you talking about?

45:33Uh Ranch Place Boulevard.

45:36Which is the one

45:37we

45:37can

45:37do.

45:40Okay. They're not opening it up. He lived up just a couple of houses from me.

45:44Okay, same one. Okay.

45:46I'm gonna say though, you might wanna be able to get down to that park somehow without The one all around the park. I'll just put a little land graver to get the pedestrian entrance.

45:58Okay.

46:00Thank you, sir.

46:05Name and address and if you've been sworn.

46:07I've been sworn uh Co Jason Hoskins, Warden Zephyrhills Institution, 2739 Gaul Boulevard. We're the property that's gonna that's right next to the industrial area, the purple area right hand corner. Um one of the issues we have if you scroll that a little further to the left, there's three acres that are being thrown and with the zoning on the top other side of the way. There we go. Keep going a little more. See that little triangle

46:38right there? In the top right hand corner. The yellow one? The little there's a little triangle right up.

46:47Um I can point it's right-

46:49Parcel G. Top

46:50right. Yeah,

46:51we

46:51see it. It's about three acres. Um that butts right up to to our property and the institution. Um Oh, this is the right-of-way. Right there. Prison the prison's right here. We talked yesterday. So um it where it says residential partial, that's that's where the institution is right there. Um uh one of our concerns was is if something is put in there, a store or something like that, it's just a way for throwovers and contraband introduction into our institution. Um there's housing behind

47:22there for our staff. Um I I don't know if it was just thrown in but when we saw the signs out there I just wanted to speak to that. I see this is all industrial which which is great. I mean at least I guess the school's down here. So there's there is kind of a buffer there, but I just want to you know get it on record that we're there and let y'all know, you know, we do have some concerns with this area right here. If there's a gas station or or something put in there Um we may have some more security issues. We already have signs up and you know, uh luckily our

47:52institution isn't affected as as some others are, but you know, flyovers and throwovers are a big concern for us. So um We met with DOT before. I mean the traffic going down in front of the institution now is very heavy. I guess they pushed back the widening till 2027.

48:12The last time I met with him in the last few years we have lost a couple of staff members trying to leave work from there and um there is a new light. It stopped out a little. But okay, rapid. I see the wrap it up light.

48:24Yeah, one more minute.

48:24Okay, but that our biggest uh w one of our big concerns though is that square right there is if it does get developed, it is gonna cause some security issues for us.

48:35Okay. Thank you, sir.

48:40Name and address and if you've been trying to Yes, good afternoon. My name is Sean Donley. Address is [address removed]. I have been sworn in. I'm here today both as a trustee and the owner of the property located at the very southwest corner of this development. I'm in Hillsborough County and I directly abut the project that's being developed. Here today. I was at the Planning Commission meeting and I brought up a couple of issues, but um

49:11one is to state out front that I'm not necessarily here to oppose the project because we have a um complementary um enterprise that's going on south of there. However, I do want to express concerns and that I believe that the conditions of approval are not nearly specific enough for you to understand what's going on in three areas. Areas. First is the runoff. I've got experience with this personally with two pieces of property in Pasco County, directly above me, wherein there's a communication tower,

49:41a cell phone tower, and a Tico's substation. Small footprints, but the runoff from that amount of concrete sometimes floods our property. And you're talking about putting And sixty four hundred residential units, three point three million square feet of office, retail, and industrial space, along with the parking that goes along with that, I'm getting a lot of runoff from those two little things. What is this going to do with my property other than turn it into waterfront property? It's gonna also mess up my project

50:11that's going on down there. Um I think that this is something that hasn't been addressed if you look at um Page 10 of your uh packet, it states that the required drainage, retention, and flip plane mitigation shall be termed at the time in the stormwater management plan. Seems like you're just kicking the can down the road. I have no idea where these retention ponds are going. For all I know, they could end up right next to my property, end up looking like a lake. I think there needs to be a lot more specificity when that comes to it. Uh second concern I

50:41have is as I stated I'm on Morris Bridge Road. The traffic that's here uh that's already on that road is It's starting to ramp up pretty uh pretty good, but uh when you when and if you do uh expand it to four um lanes, that's going to create a bottleneck there. While there is no specific plan to widen it into four at or four lanes of uh through traffic, there is provision um on page 10 also uh number 25 of an 80-foot right-of-way with an additional

51:1211 foot. feet to accommodate a future right turn. As the development I've seen, the plans that I've seen, you have um retail and mixed use right along Morris Bridge Road. And it leads to my final point of on this, which is the access points which they're talking about on Morris Bridge Road are subject to change. Well Those things need to be set out so that we know what we're dealing with here. If you're gonna have major retail and mixed use there, we need to know where the access points are gonna go, what type

51:42of traffic control devices are going into there and all of that. Finally, the the last thing and I'll be very brief on this is on page 11, number 27, uh you do bring up the fact that uh talking about uh County Line Road In this one it shows that it's not going to be located in Hillsborough uh in Hillsborough County. Um I'm sorry that it's not going to be located in Pasco Panny rather in Hillsborough County. However, there's been no discussion that I know of with Hillsborough County, City of Tampa, or anyone

52:12else. And I only part of the road that is the only connector that goes from 301 to Morris. So thank you for your time.

52:19Okay, thank you.

52:25My name's John Barry, I live at [address removed]. I've been sworn in. I've already been up and talked once. You can't talk you can't

52:32talk twice. That's that it

52:34it's already He said he's gonna connect with an access road up into our area. I was wanna see if he could clarify which road is he gonna access.

52:42Coates. He said the vision road coats is where they're showing a connection. Um I mean if you if you zoom in on that again it it has the it has the designation of Coates Road both in your area and down on their property.

53:03Okay. Thank you very much,

53:04sir.

53:05All right, thank you.

53:08Mr. Hobby.

53:13Yeah. Mr. Chairman Clark Hobby again I'll answer a few of these questions. Uh with regard to the property, the very small three-acre tract over on 301 that says residential, uh, the reason why that's got a different color code is it's separated from the rest of the site and it has a res 3 future land use. It's not within the overall uh sub-area PD for two rivers. So it can only be used for residentials. So we're not going to use it for

53:43anything other than what it's allowed. So I think that takes care of the concern that you heard from the neighbor on that one. With regard to the issues raised by Mr. Donnelly, I'll just uh address these briefly. With regard to runoff, obviously we have to engineer the site, and that's when you determine what the runoff and drainage issues will be for sure. And that cannot be done at the time of zoning. Um with regard to Morris Bridge Road, the plan for Morris Bridge Road is to four lane it all the way down to Oldwoods. The

54:13reason why it doesn't forelane down to the county line from there is that Hillsborough County has voted as a board never to widen Morris Bridge south of Pasco County. So we have to bring it back down to the Two lanes, otherwise we'd have a four-lane road that stops at a two-lane. Yeah, yeah, that's and that's not a great situation. We don't like it, that's what it is. Um, and with regard to the access points being subject to change, it is not possible at with this large of a project to

54:43analyze every single access management movement at this time. And the code requires that it be done at the time of development. approval anyway so that's when it will be done just like every other project there's nothing unusual about that. I think that answered most of the questions, but let me go back to the access points again just for our neighbors benefit on that partial that's

55:04Let's Zoom in. Let's zoom back in so we can see that. Yeah if

55:07we could go to the northeast corner there where the industrial commercial area is. There is no proposed access to the road that they keep mentioning, Ranch Place Boulevard. There's no proposed access there. As I mentioned, uh the other roads, we're not looking to have access and do a large MPUD from a series of dirt roads that lie north of the county, I mean of the line. And even if the county does have right-of-way up there, there's no plan for us to improve them or to put trips on them.

55:37We're simply gonna pave the roads on our side of the fence up to the line. So I I think that answered all the questions. Commissioner Starkey, did you have another question?

55:46I do.

55:47I have my the rest of my team here to help if I don't need

55:49to answer. But I s I I just want you to show me with the high school and a middle school and an elementary school how everyone is getting there. Maybe that's too much detail for this map. And we're gonna see it somewhere else, but

56:03it's there, yeah.

56:04State road fifty six. If everyone's on State Road 56, I'm concerned about that.

56:09Joel 2 to an associates, I'm co-counsel on this one uh with Clark. I handled the discussions with uh parks and with the school district. The reason you're not seeing that detail yet is because the school district, Mr. Williams, and your park and recreation department, they have to sit down and plan their sites. They specifically ask us in the zoning not to try to show how they're going to allocate and move their traffic because they haven't yet done their

56:39engineering and their planning design work. Got to figure out how they're going to share access to the ball fields and the shared facilities, where they're going to move buses, where they're going to have the pickup line. And they specifically asked not to put that on the MPD map so that they can work out their development plan. So I'm sure if you want to see it, you're going to have every opportunity to see that. But they have not yet planned their site between. themselves. So this is being shown exactly this way

57:10at the request of the school district and your parks department.

57:14I 'cause I see a wetland to the to the west.

57:17Commissioner Starkey, it's it's hard to tell again the scale of these plans because the property's so large The area between them that you can see the dashed line running down to that's where one of the median breaks is within the 56 project. So it's highly, highly likely that's where that point's going to be with a signal. Okay? So we know where that point is, but they didn't want us to show on our plan where the road meandered between their two sites going forward. So we know There's

57:48very, very likely to be a signal down at that point 'cause that's where the medium break is. So if

57:54you're on the north side, then this is this is what I asked about in my meeting with you guys, you're on the north side.

58:01Yes.

58:01How are you getting to the school property?

58:03Here here's what here's what we talked about and and this is going to be worked out on the site plan. At the north boundary of the property, west side of the school sites, which is where you were concerned about, we we have committed that there is room north of that wetland to provide interconnection there to those residential areas west of the school site. So about

58:30north of the school site. Correct.

58:32Well, north of the school site is not our property number one, okay? The off-site people. North the school site northern boundary is our northern MPD boundary. Now, what they're planning to do from the preliminary discussions with Chris Williams and Keith is that once they decide on their internal layout, they intend to have a road. You see where Coates goes up, which we discussed on the east side of the park site?

59:01Yeah.

59:01They envision having an internal road through the park. that comes over to the school site. and interconnects with what will then be the dashed line north-south between the school site and the parks that interconnects with that so that you then have direct access as Clark said back down to 56. So you're gonna be able to get to this from 56. You're gonna be able to get to it from the east side. And you're going, which means the people coming

59:32down coats will be able to come through the school site without getting on 56, and our residents west of the school site, north of 56, will be able to have some connection over north of that last wetland that's still within our property. The reason all those lines aren't shown is until the school district and the parks department. can sit down and work out their internal traffic circulation, that can't be shown. The school district obviously has security, statutory

1:00:03security requirements, particularly with the elementary school, on exactly how they secure this during school hours. So this they got they did a lot of due diligence. They hired engineers, they hired planners They vetted the site before they agreed that we had enough acreage and that they were comfortable with the location and that the two of them ultimately could figure out how to share that. Uh but that's why I think I think all can I

1:00:30ask you a question?

1:00:31Sure. Um I when I don't know with my attorney and our planners um if it's not in the conditions, would you be agreeable to a condition that there has to be access to the school complex besides State Road 56?

1:00:49We can't commit the county or the school district. to their plan. All we are doing is we're meeting the request of the county to provide this 80-acre park site and the school district to provide three school sites. And they're going to be the property owners and they need to work out those access issues with you. Clearly they have enough land to do that. But my suggestion is that if you're concerned about that, that you require your parks department

1:01:20and the school district to share their proposed site plan when they generate it. To my knowledge, they haven't developed it.

1:01:27Mm-hmm. I'd like to hear from one of my planners or someone. I just I'm I just know what we deal with with Mitchell High School and you know to have a middle school, high school, elementary school and all accessing from fifty six.

1:01:41Okay, so I have a concern. I so I'll try to how that meaning is I don't know if you can see your decision or not. Um work?

1:01:54David Goldstein, Chief Assistant County Attorney, County Attorney's Office. So staff Staff is very concerned about this that we hear issues. They don't want traffic stacking up on Chair 56 to access the school site. So what we talked about was a road that comes off of Coates Road that would go through the park site and connect over to the school site. And that would basically be the stacking, all the stacking for the school site would occur basically within the park site. So that we don't

1:02:24have people stacking out on stage 56. So that so the entrance to the school would be, the primary entrance to the school would be off of coats for an internal road that gets over to the school site. The reason they didn't want it shown on the plan is because. This is supposed to be a co-located site, so they have to design it in a way so that it's got safe crossing between the park and the school, and we weren't sure where the library was going in between the two sites. So that was very that was almost impossible for us to design at

1:02:55the MPUD stage. But I can guarantee you that Mr. Williams and Mr. Wiley have the same concern you have. They do not want traffic stacking on Stereo fifty six. So their goal is to have a road that comes off of coats that gets to the school and parks. Is this a a a two-lane

1:03:12road? A two-lane road?

1:03:14I believe it'll we don't know yet until we design the park and school start. And so and

1:03:18the counties paying for that road? County's building.

1:03:21It would likely be so a joint project between the county and the school district. Just like Starkey Ranch was planned by between the county and the school district. So if you go to the Starkey Ranch School, the road that connects them serves as the student drop-offs. So some of the student drop-offs is actually snaking through the library site and sometimes over to the park site. So it would be very similar here where the traffic that is going to the school will use the libraries of the library site and also the

1:03:51park site. to stack so they're not stacking on state route 56.

1:03:55Yeah, it's but it's not the same as with Starkey because you're in the high school. But um listen, if you guys if you guys think you figured out a way

1:04:04Well uh I'm

1:04:06and and maybe again I'm looking this is a macro map and not a detailed map I just want to voice my concern. If you remember I won't be here when that's right.

1:04:14So if

1:04:14you remember

1:04:15when Starkey Rams,

1:04:17so Commissioner

1:04:17Starkey maybe I can help. So remember when Starkey Rams was first approved, the school site and the park site were just a blob on a map. Yeah, like an H map. And then later Pipe Design came and designed the access to those sites. Right now this is just a blob on a map. So when we do the actual design of those school sites and park sites and hopefully the library site, that's when you'll see the detailed plans of circulation.

1:04:41Yeah, but the blob on the map had some connected roads and I'm just saying there's I don't see a connection at the high school site to anything. And I see a wetland

1:04:52on the west side. I don't think the ball for structure range showed the internal connecting roads at the time we approved the MPUD. There's an internal driveway system that can be a good thing. Sorry, but

1:05:03these two parcels are connecting to each other. They're not connecting to the neighborhood. That's a difference. There's no the only home that's around here is that top left that top side you know see where the two of two rivers is? The only residential connection to this is that little piece right there.

1:05:22So we raised that concern as well when we had our meeting and about the crossing to get from all the residents to go from the south side to the north side. Yeah,

1:05:31I'm concerned about that too.

1:05:32So we actually had the applicant reserve some additional right-of-way at the intersection of, I don't know what the name of that north-south road is. Coates well not Coates, it's no what's the name of this southern north south road?

1:05:52Okay, okay. So the road that goes that is south of the school and park site, we had them reserve additional right of way for an elevated pedestrian crossing over that road. Because we recognize that State Road 56 is not it's a major east-west Ontario Roadway. It's not going to be a safe crossing. So we do envision that at some point in the future we will need an elevated crossing over Stero 56 at that location. And we made the applicant reserve right-of-way for that purpose.

1:06:20May may I make just one final comment. The the two blobs that are in question, the blobs on the map, please remember that the scale on this is very deceiving. Those two blobs are a hundred and eighty acres of land. They're as large as most projects you see. So they have lots of room in there to do their internal circulation in their facilities. So I think it is deceiving. I understand the point when you just look at this scale of a map, but those are huge parcels

1:06:50of land where they're situated. Mr.

1:06:53Chairman Mariano. Yeah, I just want to go in that you're right about how those those parts how big is uh Wesley Chapel District Park is huge and that's what, forty five acres? Am I about forty five acres? Almost two hundred acres. Yeah, so this is this is literally t twice the size, if not more. So that's a big that is a big property. I just want to make sure um since I I didn't I didn't hear from these residents prior to today's meeting either. It sounds like we have at least the residents that live in Pasco County um Um that

1:07:23taken care of here. So let's just reiterate um what you spoke you said before. Ranch Ranch Road, Ranch Pasco Boulevard.

1:07:32Ranch Place Boulevard.

1:07:33Right. I can't read this. I even have glasses. Ranch Place Boulevard, there is no access, right? That's correct. Okay, so to make sure we're on the same page. No access to Ranch Place Boulevard. Um from the corrections um facility, s if we can go to the right a little bit. Real quick, thank you. Again, that parcel they're concerned about possibly being commercial is not zoned for commercial, that is zone residential.

1:07:59And it's planned residential.

1:08:01Okay. So no commercial there, that was a concern, so we're okay on that one. Um And for the gentleman I know fr from Hillsbroke from Hillsbroke County, um a lot of these things as you know, it sounds like you're in the development business yourself, I think, right? So you understand a lot of this isn't gonna come in in place until the site until the site plan's submitted. Um so where it comes the placement of the ponds and things like that. You can't do that in a rezoning hearing. That's that's impossible. We can't do that. We cannot look at a site plan and and decide where the ponds are gonna go during a rezoning

1:08:31zoning hearing. I think Mr. Signer will agree with that. That's gonna be part of the site plan where those are actually permanently gonna be located. So as you know, they're not allowed to put a drop on your property. Um that's and then that's a civil matter after that. Okay. I think so I think we're good on on our resident concerns. We can't ask from the audience, so I'm sorry. Yeah. Um

1:08:56the only thing I I don't know if there are any other questions out I just uh Commissioner Starkey, I

1:09:01was

1:09:01thinking when you when you said you were leaving, that made me think of Bill Murray's line in and stripes when his girlfriend walked out, you can't leave, all the plants will die. So please don't leave.

1:09:14Please don't leave. Uh but no the the bigger picture and again the scale is very deceiving. What we've done here is created a gigantic Co-location site here and our client rather than fighting the county staff and the and the and the parks and the schools about the stuff has chosen to work with the county. So there's a lot to be proud of. Same with Morris Bridge Road. We identified the need, worked with staff right out of the gate, and we're confident that we're making the off-site mitigation

1:09:44improvement with the county that's going to do the best. For the job, but I also say there will probably be another thirty to forty million dollars worth of mobility fees generated from this site that the county can use to make other improvements, four laning uh three oh one as one example, and that's what staff intends to do is study where that money is best used to help uh plan for the future of this whole area. So happy to answer any other questions.

1:10:10I do the Chairman M Well I okay, I have one more question.

1:10:14Good.

1:10:15Um what is the normal acreage for a high school? 'Cause I thought it was in the sixties.

1:10:24Some I I think their typical is like sixty, sixty, seventy some of them about twenty six for

1:10:31an elementary. So

1:10:34We asked them what they wanted, Commissioner Starkey, and this is what they told us what they wanted. It was as simple as that. We didn't tell them what we had available. We said like a campus.

1:10:53No, I understand that. And I hope they build a cultural center similar to what what we have at Starkey Ramps. That'd be great to see more of those around the county.

1:11:04I think they're twenty two

1:11:05of them. Thank you, Mr Chairman Mariano. Well when I look at the site between the Carney Parcel and the school site um where the road comes from the south from three oh one all the way up that bisects it. I mean somehow the provision I'm sure will be in there to bu build the road right there. Probably gonna be a light there to get the access and then it'd be a lot easier other than Mitchell where you can actually be inside before you actually pick elementary, high school, middle school, whatever it may be. Same thing with the parks. So I think we can probably make that work, probably a nice little two-lane road and

1:11:35probably what it has to be. Uh but I'll tell you my concerns aren't above State Road 56 when I look at the map as we do the connections. So Conduline Road to the south. It like stops at that little south road in the county.

1:11:49Let me explain that, Commissioner Mariano, because it's again I I should have gone into it. I apologize for not doing that. Had a lot of discussion with staff about this uh at the comp plan level. I think there was some discussion at that time, but not sure if you were here that day. So if you look on the map here and you see that there are roads going to the south, the Thomas family also owns the property to the south and it's part of an approved PD in Hillsborough County. And so what our conditions say is and

1:12:19I believe Eisenhower Property Group, our same client, has that under contract. And I believe what the intention here is that they're going to build this loop system that gets you again for a third connection, or it's actually a second connection to 301 over from Warsbridge Road. We're simply going to use the Hillsborough connection through it. And what the conditions uh include, and as you might imagine, David was very keen on this. If for some rose reason the Hillsboro connection is

1:12:50not made, we have to dedicate the right-of-way and build it in Hillsborough. I mean in Pasco. So it is there, it's just that's why you're seeing on bottom part of the screen will probably build the functional connection on the Hillsborough side.

1:13:03Right. So as as I understand from years ago we we did talk that way. However when I look at it, as far as the trips go, if I get people that are gonna access Tritt in and around here. If you don't make that connection going from County Line South going straight across in Pasco County as well, even if it's just a two-lane road. You're missing out with these people here. Everybody's got to go down like they do now on State Road 5452. They gotta go down, over and up, down, over and up. Again, you're gonna create more traffic.

1:13:28Commissioner Oakley, if I might just because I think the scale again is deceiving. We cannot show you all the local streets that are within these large yellow areas, like the residential partial that I you're probably looking at. There's kind of a loop area in there. There will be street connections. to that collector system that you're seeing that are within that. They're just not shown because it's impossible to show old scale.

1:13:51What's the total acreage of what we're looking at?

1:13:53It's 3,300 acres. So it's very hard on one sheet to show all this stuff.

1:13:58So can we put a condition in that there will be a connection point from Connel to the south going all the way across 2301? It

1:14:04it's already says that in the commissions

1:14:06commission. Yeah,

1:14:07they're gonna build it in Hillsborough if it doesn't have it there that I'm not gonna

1:14:11I'm not talking about Hillsborough. I'm talking about in Pasco County going through that development. So everybody doesn't have to go like they do on fifty four now. If you're Atlanta Lakes now that Ridge Road's extension is gonna help a lot, but everybody from in the middle part of Pasco County's got to go all the way down, all the way over, and all the way up. State Road 52, they go all the way down, all the way forward. I'm talking about the middle of the project. So the conodai round itself, if that point you can connect that O and all the way across over That's a whole nother road

1:14:37network that doesn't get built. Just two things, and Joel may have something to say also. The reason we're using this framework is really two major reasons. One, the framework in Hillsborough is already there, okay, in the planned development, but we have to permit it. We do not believe that you'll be able to permit three separate crossings of this class one water body called Indian Creek. So that's why we're using this connection system, and that's why you already adopted changes to

1:15:07your highway vision map to do exactly this. So at this point we're following the comp plan. That's the law we have to follow. So, I mean I can't go back and change it right now.

1:15:19I'm not talking about changing a comp plan if I'm gonna have a roadway network that's internal, and I'm not talking about a six-lane road or a four-lane road, even a two-lane road going across, so all those people don't have to go into Hills Road County and come back up. As far as the crossing over, um we crossed over on State Road 56 when we built it. Uh don't don't don't don't know if that was in the comp plan then, but there is a narrow squad even down to the south that could cross over. And again I I just think we're all that focused to the north, I think You know, we need

1:15:49to learn learn our lesson from Bridge Road extension not being built in and put in the way it should have been. Then it took us what, twenty years to get it approved after that? If I need to change a complaint, maybe I need to go change a comp plane. But that roadwood network on Connie Line Road South should go all the way over, not be independent upon Hills Road.

1:16:06You're not dependent on the developer that's supposed to build a software.

1:16:11Mm-hmm. I know, but but why do my people from the midst of this whole thing have to go all the way down and over to be able to go up?

1:16:18Can can I take a step at this? Uh a lot of county money, state money, and future development money has been thrown at State Road fifty six. Through the heart of this project. The whole point of State Road 56, through the heart of this project, was to be able to move Pasco County people back and forth east to west with another major east-west quarter. So we have that through the north-central part of the project. The

1:16:48question is. Where should the next one south be? And the real driving factor is that Indian Creek system. Just look at that. Can you imagine the Army Corps permitting issue that you're going to have to unnecessarily cross that when you have to tell Army Corps that in Hillsboro County, less than a half a mile south of that, you already have a roadway county? Connection to 301. They're not going to give you an unnecessary additional

1:17:19crossing of Indian River Creek. If our property owner and our developer who also own and are developing the immediate project in Hillsburg County, if they're already building that east-west connection, in some places it's a quarter mile, it's no more than a half mile, to me, I just Can't see the material difference of whether it's a quarter or a half mile into Hillsboro versus right straight down your county line crossing Indian. Creek again. So our

1:17:49condition says one of two things that happen. You're going to get that second east-west quarter that you want. You either get it at the very northern tip of Hillsburg County Adjacent to you, or if it isn't constructed there, then we do have to go ahead and figure out some way to try to build it on our southern boundary, assuming we can get a permit from Army Corps and Swift Mike to do that, which is a big if. So I think we're doing everything we can to be

1:18:19responsive to East-West movements. One project can only be asked and do so much. That right-of-way for State Route 56, and that money was a substantial contribution. And at some point we have to stop asking one property owner to. to do things that don't really appear in our respective respectful judgment that doesn't appear necessary to to move that road a half a mile north just for the sake of having it uh in Pasco County. Thank you. And

1:18:49and

1:18:50Mr. Chairman M

1:18:50my

1:18:50point is right I mean I started with Carnell Road South. If you go to the northern road above that Is it Oldswood?

1:18:58What's

1:18:58the correct word? I mean if a c connection there would be be made going across that'd be probably better as well. And that's even a shorter connection to that Mill South World. And again I I just don't want to see us get log jammed, we get people driving up and over and over, if we can make those connections.

1:19:13Uh again, Commissioner Mariano, we went through this with the Comp Plan and that's why the Comp Plan has special provisions. It's actually it's the only uh place that I'm aware of on the highway vision map that has a specific note about it for this very reason and there's specific requirements. But again, just to reiterate what Joel said and we talked with this about with with the county and With our transportation consulting staff a year, year and a half ago, and with the environmental folks who are working

1:19:43with us, they do not believe it's permittable to have a third crossing of Indian Creek in this close of proximity.

1:19:50Well, and again we had a battle with Ridge Road too, but if you just focus on the Connie Road Line Road to connect, even if nothing else, on the other side of the Indian Indian River to one of those To that road where that loops up and around Oldswood.

1:20:05Uh I'm not sure where say it again, question where it's right. Take Hond

1:20:08Land Road goes straight across before the Indian River Park. There's a roadway that goes loops up and around. It looks

1:20:12like

1:20:13it's old wood.

1:20:14Again, there will be local connections in there that are connecting to the big loop system you're seeing. Okay. So just trust me, it's it's going to be interconnected.

1:20:23Okay. The other problem you got is that creek it ends up in the Hillsborough County then. Right. River.

1:20:29Right.

1:20:30And there's a lot of restrictions on that war because that's city of Tampa war. Right. So Army Corps' not want to do much to um cause any issues environmentally.

1:20:42That's what our engineers have been telling us for many years about

1:20:46it.

1:20:46I I'm confident we will make sure that there's adequate east-west connections through the site. Thank you. All

1:20:53right. Thank you. Anyone else in the artist want to speak at this time?

1:21:01Okay. No one else to speak?

1:21:04Pleasure of the board? I think we satisfied the residents' concerns and care cares concerns, so I'll move for approval.

1:21:11Mr. Chairman Mariano Just for clarity, that includes the revised conditions that were passed

1:21:17out to you. Okay. Yes, as amended. Thank you.

1:21:21So I got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed like sign. Motion passed 5-0. Okay, now we will uh move back to regular items and we'll go to R97.