Trinity Oaks Subdivision and Thousand Oaks Phase One, PVAS No. 3436 (Consent) – Board of County Commissioners – Public Hearing – $2,426,305.00
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionApproved
Approved Staff’s recommendation.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 28, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 28, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PW-21-0089 in full →Heard once. PW-21-0089 appears on no other agenda in the archive.
- Sep 28, 2021BoardP81▶Approvedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 31m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 88% of 145 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Item P eighty one was published in Tampe Times on August twenty-fifth, twenty twenty one.
Item P eighty-one is PW twenty one zero zero eight nine. Mr. Chair, I will be reading this item into record, but I believe that there are some folks that are signed up to speak on this item. It's Trinity Oaks Subdivision and Thousand Oaks Phase One, PVAS number three four three six, and it's the approval of a PVAS for two million four hundred and twenty-six thousand three hundred and five dollars.
Okay. Let's um since we have people speaking that can we we'll pull that off? Yes and we'll move on to P eighty two.
Item P eighty two was published in the Tampay Times on August twenty-fifth, twenty twenty-one.
P eighty two is PW twenty-one zero zero nine two, McDonald Lane Paving Assessment number three four four seven, and it's in the amount of fifty-nine thousand eighty-five dollars, and we're require requesting that you approve this item.
Is anyone signed up to speak to this item?
Not for item P eighty two in person. No one has signed up and also no one on WebEx.
Okay, is anyone in the room to speak uh wish to speak to P eighty two? Yes. P eighty two.
Okay.
And then I'll entertain a motion for the other consent items.
We'll fall remain to the consent. Thank you.
We got a motion second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, like, sign. Motion passed 5-0.
Liam Devine, Planning and Development. This is for item P eighty three. There has been export ex parte community. Wait a
second. No, we're not on P eighty three.
We're going back to P
eighty one at this
point.
Just a minute.
All right, let's move back to P eighty one.
Um this is P P dou10089. Next please.
Mm-hmm.
That's it.
Uh Trinity Oak Subdivision and Thousand Oak Phase One, PVAS number 3436. There are 28 streets in this project. They're county maintained and paved. The total estimated project cost is 2.4, just over $2.4 million, maximum cost per ERU. It's $5,297.84. The discounted amount is uh just under uh two hundred and four hundred and ninety-two thousand dollars and the maximum cost per ERU after the discount is four thousand two hundred and twenty-three dollars and thirty-eight
cents. In terms of the votes, there were 459 possible votes. 319 or 69% responded to the petition. Of that, 189 or 59% voted in favor of the project. 130 or 41% voted against the project. The repayment is over a 10-year period and the interest rate is at 3.25% interest. This is a location map of both Trinity Oaks and Thousand Oaks phase one. And this is a
typical photo of the streets that are represented in this project.
Okay.
Yeah, look at that.
We have uh we'll sign up to speak to this item.
We do. We have um a few people signed up to speak on this item. Um some had pre-registered, but they um are not online, so we don't have anyone on WebEx for this item and it looks like one person has appeared in person now.
Okay.
So um I have One, two, three. Four um individuals who have signed up to speak to this item. The first person is John Hanoski, followed by Vicki Hanoski.
Okay, come forward.
Name and address plus uh if you've been sworn.
They don't have to be sworn for the last items.
Um my name is John Hanoski, [address removed]. Before I begin, I'd like to ask the board to receive and file the attachment I sent.
Motion to receive.
Second. Pick it a motion and second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Motion passed.
Very big. Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to address the board today. My name is John Hinosky. I'm a resident of the Trinity Oak Subdivision. I'm here today to voice my objection to our road paving assessment the board is scheduled to vote on today. My objection is to the maximum assessment per property owner that the county has arrived at. I, as well as many of the people in my community, feel the county should pick up 100% of the cost of some of our roads or sections of roads to be repaved. There is a well-documented history of flooding and drainage issues in our area that has
undoubtedly contributed to the poor conditions our roads are in. My family and I had lived in Trinity Oak since two thousand. Prior to purchasing my home, my brother in law and I went to inspect the house and property. We were both impressed at how well the roads drained because that day there was a torrential downpour. There was no flooding or pooling of water on the roads that we observed. After moving into my home in August two thousand, my wife and I observed no flooding issues in our community even after the most severe torrential rains for the first few years. Fast forward to 2001 and 2002, Thousand
Oaks development to the east of Trinity Oaks, 2002 and 2003. Flooding in the area from El Nino storms that led to a 2005 Duck Slough watershed study. 2012, Tropical Storm Debbie. cause flooding, and with it additional deterioration of our roads. Yeah. Rainfall occurred over areas that were already saturated saturated, creating more flooding of our roads. So our compute community has a well established history of flooding that began More than after more homes are developed to the east of us. I have
submitted supporting documents which show that homeowners from both Trinity Oaks and Southern Oaks voiced their complaints about flooding and drainage issues to this board back as early as 2003. This continued in the subsequent years, including at various task force meetings to discuss the drainage and flooding issues in our area. And while some improvements have been implemented, in order to help mitigate the situation, we still experience drainage problems in several areas which will continu which continue to exasperate the deterioration of our roads. While we appreciate the county
contributing towards our PVAS, the fact is the County does this for any assessment, which the roads have been rated as being in poor or failing condition. So the real issue is what led to these conditions. When you review the history of development in the area, it is well known that the County reduced plumping from the Eldridge Wild Well Field, which has led to the water ta led to the water table in the area rising. Unfortunately, the county approved the development of Thousand Oaks, even though the plans for that development use outdated water table data, leading to drainage and flooding issues in our area that we had not experienced before.
For the past two and a half years, I have worked diligently along with Jackie Barray in asking the county numerous questions about the PVAS process as well as what financial relief our community can receive based on our historic drainage and flooding issues. I sent an email to Commissioner Starkey's office on March 31st of this year that included some questions and concerns about our road paving assessment, as well as offering some potential solutions to the drainage issues we still expect. Experience. In the answers I received to date in uh received in an email dated August 20, 2021, from Derek Berger,
I was told that a consultant the county hired to secure a Swift MUD permit for an existing temporary flood control pumps also looked into how to best maximize flood abatement in our area. The consultant recommended a plan that reduced flooding from about eighteen inches in some areas to about five inches for a ten-year storm. I've requested I had requested a copy of that consultant's report, and after a month I received it this past Friday evening. I was disappointed to see that this report was issued in March 2021 and revised in July 2021, and yet on August 20th,
I was informed that the consultant was still finalizing the report. I did, however, receive an answer to my question When would this work begin, if approved, and what in the time frame? And was informed that the cost benefit cost analysis shows that the project is not cost effective, and that Swift MUD will not cooperatively fund a project with such a low cost benefit ratio of 0.21. Also, the Federal Emergency Agency's Hazard Mitigation Grant Program will also not fund such a program for the same reason. So, the best of my knowledge, it appears that no work to
help further to help mitigate stormwater flooding in our area is planned at the current time, as I have confirmed with the county as well as through Congressman Bill Rakus' office. It sounds like my community's drainage and flooding concerns are once again being neglected, which is unfortunate, but something I will continue to advocate for. So now I ask the board. Why should the property owners being assessed for this project have to pay for roads that were damaged due to Negligence by the county in approving the development of Thousand Oaks, even though the plans for that development used outdated water table data. negligence by the
county and not properly maintaining Our d stormwater drainage system leading to vegetation overgrowth that interfere with stormwater runoff. Negligence by the county and its failure to respond to the drainage and flooding concerns of the citizens who are affected by this assessment. as from what we know today, no mitigation efforts in our area have been planned. Based on the evidence submitted, I respectively request that the county go back and reduce our overall assessment and recalculate the maximum assessment per property owner based on the county paying 100 percent for the repaving of these sections of
roads that have been most impacted by our historical flooding and drainage issues, Trinityokes Boulevard, by the north entrance by the school, Trinityokes Elementary, Kinsmere Drive Southeast from Trinity Oakes Boulevard to Jutland Drive. Kinsmere drives southwest from Trinity Oakes Boulevard to Tantalon Road, past the Weir in that area. Presswick Place, Jutland Drive, Arlenbook Drive west-northwest from Trinityox Boulevard, which is the south entrance off of Trinity Boulevard to Mera Vista Drive. Trinity Oaks Boulevard, the south entrance off
of Trinity Boulevard, from the Pasco County Line to Arlandbrook. I'm almost done.
No no no you had an extra two minutes actually.
Okay.
No, thank you very much. And maybe you're I just wanted to thank the board. She might be able to finish. Okay.
Just
be sure and start the clock.
Okay. And I'm Vicki Hanoski, [address removed]. I also request that the Board review the information Jackie Murray and I have both formally submitted and respectively requested the board approve that is part of the public record on our PVAS hearing today. Thank you for your time today, and I'm happy to answer any questions the board may have for you. Yeah.
Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Okay.
Yep. Thank you.
Thanks.
I have uh two more people signed up, uh Jackie Boree and Linda Appleby.
If Miss Appleby could just line up out in back of Miss Burry, thank you.
Hello. I have to I'm a little older. I have to put my readers on. I need them. I just don't have them with me today. I know, I know. I'm Jackie Baray, um, Trinity Oaks President, uh [address removed]. Um I have also uh emailed um a copy of of what I wanted to say, so I asked that it be received and put in the record. Receive a file.
Second.
Second. All those in favor say aye.
Before her time starts, before her time time starts, starts, um um the gentleman, Mr. Hanoski, as well as uh Miss Burie, we just need to get a copy of the items
that were submitted. Okay. And I do have copies of mine. I think he put the copies in for yours, um and then I have copies of mine one for everyone. I'll try to be brief. I'm uh I'm not a public speaker. So my name is Jackie Buret. Obviously, I live at Trinity in Trinity Oaks. I've been there for 14 years. Four years of that time, I was a substitute teacher for my mother of twins at Trinity Oaks Elementary. So I'm very familiar with that area. This
is my third year serving on Trinity Oaks as the HOA board president this year. I've always been active in the community, keeping abreast with issues that face not only Trinity Oaks, but Pasco County. So I try to come up with solutions, excuse me, as opposed to problems. And I want to begin with the Unfortunately, deplorable road conditions due to stormwater flood damage, storm drain failure, traffic problems, and age. Um we're here because John Hanoski
and I have been working very aggressively to come up with a solution. We want to thank Mr. Caldwell for all of his work. We have uh definitely tired him out over the last two years. There's just a few items that I want to bring before the board for consideration prior to approving uh the uh pr the uh project. Um, as you're all aware, as John stated, we've experienced a lot of flooding over the last decade. Um I believe it's due to poor design and a poorly maintained Ducks Lou
watershed. while improving surrounding areas. Improper development of enjoining neighborhoods based on outdated flood projections. Nothing we can do about that. Poor maintenance of store drain storm drain and retention ponds. SwiftMed's done a great job in our community working on that basin. We've seen a lot of results from it, so we're very appreciative of that. Um however I believe it's kind of the failure of Pasco County's um maintenance of the storm drains that causes some of this ex extra
issues. So I would request Am I done?
No, one.
I would request that we have um a copy of the maintenance program that that is in place for those storm drains. Um I just wanted on the record that Mr. Caldwell stated that there will be um polymer, an extra uh polymer added to the Trinity Oaks Boulevard section due to the heavy traffic volume, and I'd like that put in writing. Mm-hmm. Um I would also I'm trying to kind of skip through this because I know you guys have it. Um I would also let it be known
that as he mentioned the roads that are in the front of the neighborhood, um, those have definitely been exacerbated. by the re the stormwater. So if we could In some way I'm not asking for a hundred percent reduction, obviously, but I understand there is a stormwater Um rate for percentage rate for roads that are damaged by stormwater. If I'm not right, you can please correct that. And so I would ask that um I think it's one point seven five. Your
time's up. Thank you very much. Thank you though.
I'll need your a copy of the document that you wanted received and filed.
You can give it right there.
Give
me a motion.
Okay. You have a motion if you're going to do that. I didn't miss anything else. Yes, right at the beginning.
We did it on the other one.
Remember I interrupted.
All
right.
Thank you for letting me speak today. My name is Linda Appleby. I live at [address removed]. And I am on the board also, and I handle any of the community issues such as potholes, electrical, and everything like that. I will kind of skip go through some of the things that Jackie had left and then I will broach the subject of potholes. At the September the 9th issue meeting, BOCC hearing, Mr. Caldwell noted on record that the additional substance of the polymer, oh Jackie
did mention that, it is our con contention that the community assessment be reduced and yes she covered that as well. Um I think I think both Jackie and John have covered um the majority of um the issues at at uh the problems at the moment. But the one of the things that I want to mention is about the school buses and the damage that's being done to the roads. Obviously we have the school buses, we have no choice about
that for the young children, no problem. But I handle the bott pothole reports. And I'm forever calling up and saying, Please come and fix them. And they say, Well, give me an address. I said, How many would you like? Because there's so many. And it's taken two, three, four weeks to get these done. Um, I followed up this week because I had two requests out there and they actually did them today. So I was happy about that. But as soon as they do those As soon as a rainfall, we're back to square one again. We will soon
have a bigger bigger one, particularly um where the school buses come through. I mean there was this massive hole plus several little ones. Potholes and they were just about to join together to make one big one. It is unsafe for the children, it is unsafe for our vehicles, anybody driving along there. Both entrances, Arlingbrook and Kinsmere. It is a nightmare. We do need these roads done as soon as possible at an affordable price for our residents. I thank you for the time you've given me today.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Caldwell?
Uh well let me say a few things, but come on up. Come on up. Um so when I just for the new commissioners.
Wait a minute. So that those were all the names that were on the list?
Those were the names that are on the list that signed up and I have no one in on WebEx for the fix.
Make sure
that
there's nobody
who's not on the audience that wishes to speak to this item that did not sign up.
Seeing no one.
Um I just I just wanna give some of the new commissioners a little history and um And Yeah, so well this started. Yeah, yeah. And this kinda started before I I was commissioner, but um this Anne Hildebrand started um putting the big Trinity Oaks. Flood task. Together, Jack, you were there. We used to meet, I don't know, once a month or something with Senator Rubio's office and Uh s um I I think it was the that the other senator,
I don't remember his name now that retired. No, it was a Democrat. I don't think his name. Bill Nelson's. Anyway, we had Bill Racks' office. This was before your time, Mr. Karbala, and before your time, Mr. Bowles, but Um just to try and solve the problems this the flooding problems of this community and And this community was built uh when we had over pumping going on in Pasco County. And our water table was fifteen
inches lower. Than it is today. And um the developer was able to get an agreement from Swift Mud who permits the flooding and the water plants to agree that that water table was the new normal. So th that's what exacerbated the flooding in this community and then um Sorry, but the HOAs never maintained their stormwater systems. And trees were actually growing up in
some of their stormwater systems. And that frankly is not the county's responsibility in an HOA. I it's the s it's the HOA's responsibility to maintain their storm systems. I actually had a put together a meeting with Swift Bud last last year and I didn't have uh sadly no one from that community could make it to the meeting so we could help educate them on on the responsibility. Responsibilities of permitted stormwater systems within a community. The county
went in and spent millions of dollars Which we don't haven't really done in other neighborhoods, but we went in and spent millions of dollars. We got a Army Corps special permit to clean out their ditch. And um and I'm hoping that I I and I think I had asked and I'm not sure if I've heard back Uh if we took over maintenance of BMP five. So I'd like to to know if we did or not and are we maintaining that? Because when I drove by there it looked full again. Um so that that's a question. Um But the
um the roads The roads need to be fixed. I I drove into the biggest pothole of my life. Uh three years ago, I think, four years ago in a big re big storm. Um I I I couldn't believe how big that hole was. It was underwater, so I never saw it. And I drive an SUV and uh it was really bad. So um I think this this P VAS did pass with the majority. Yes. Um I know it's seems unfair that's that public public
partners don't pay for the road like the school district doesn't pay for roads, pretty sure, right?
Best
story. Um the most unfair one I ever saw was when um Cypr uh the uh the water the branch owned by Pinales County Um what is it called? Well b uh crossbar. Crossbar the road on the southern boundary of Crossbar was fallen apart from all the commercial Trucks coming in and out of the the land owned by Penellas County and all the houses on the south side had to pay for the road. and they are big lots, so they had big bills and we couldn't get Penellas
County to pay anything. So That's unfortunately part of the system we have, but this this is a PVAS that needs to go through and you're gonna do full depth reclamation so though so um there's not gonna be potholes in this road again. Because a pothole only lasts till the next big storm and then it pops out. Um let's see what else. Uh
can we see the vote first one?
Yeah, can we see the vote? The how the votes came in.
Oops.
There it is.
Yeah, so you know it was
It was yeah, well or fifty. So yeah, so I would um recommend approval of the PVAS.
I'm in a second, but I want more discussion. Sure. Yeah. Mr.
Mariano?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh Commissioner Starkey, I think you summed up a lot of great points that were there. I mean back in two thousand four when this thing was getting started, I was there with Commissioner Hildebrand as we were looking it over. Because at at two thousand four we had all those hurricanes and it was going on, so I was directly involved. And I wanna say I appreciate your leadership, your involvement every step of the way 'cause As you got more in into it I kinda step back and let the uh U as district commissioner kinda run with it. I think you've done a great job, especially with that B M P five, which when that was lowered down had a great effect and
increasing
the one behind
the screen.
Now, I will say say maybe that could get looked at to improve that stormwater better. But I want you to think about something for a right down the road. Look at Oak Ridge right down the street. Oak Ridge has got the drains all through that neighborhood all the way through. And they're after Thousand Oaks.
Now I will say after them there was another development of the reserve. And they had like a really constrained thing that went through. Swift club went in there, they opened that thing right up. We did some improvements there, there, and all the way through. Um so I mean as far as like we've done all the improvements we can do. I'll tell you where we get stuck, and I won't even blame the developer for this. But when you have giant sugar maples that are growing up Between the Displacement of that, the leaves, the vegetation coming in there, that stuff has to get cleaned out. Now I will say There's
other improvements that can be done that Lou Fried Linen Company, Dan Weimar, talked about that were right on the money. There's a trench that was designed to go all the way through Thousand Oaks, all the way out, to the CVS and go through. But it's the Army Corps. It's I don't know if it's Swift Mud so much, but I think the Army Corps stops us from going through that drainage. Now I will tell you I just came back from Switzerland. We kind of dr my brother and I we kinda drove through the farmlands. We drove through a lot of wetlands, farms, et cetera. right through wetlands, this trenches that go through
right into Lake Geneva. They take their stormwater, channeled to go through, into the water, into the waterways, and it goes out into into the Lake Geneva and they don't flood. I'm going to tell you I would love to Work as hard as we can in the future. Now that I've seen this internationally done, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to have that trench running all the way through to get that water flow out. When you look past BMP five, We used to have pumps that would go in there. It would take them twelve hours to set a pump up, fifteen guys to go set the thing up, and when they just lowered the
weir down and now they get the water flowing. It works so much better, so much easier. That's what we need to go do to solve that. Now, with all that said, I'm gonna say I'm delighted to see it's FDR. It's what you needed out there. There's no reason to wait as we fight this battle. And I know C Commissioner Starkey is going to keep on fighting and I'll keep on fighting. And the whole Board supports you to get this thing fixed. And I think now that we have more information, maybe we can change what the Federal Government is stopping us from doing to live you get let you guys have a quality of life. So The FDR was delighted to see that.
Uh that's gonna make the road Better, stronger, so you can actually live your life and kids can ride their bikes in the street instead of worried about what's going on. So as much as everything that's going on there, I will tell you the commission I mean this is a great Board of County Commissioners. It's worked very hard on stormwater issues, funding, doing whatever we can every step of the way, but this is a necessary project to get done and we're still not done, but it's I think it's it's it's a great necessary thing to g make the next door.
Yeah, and I I wanna bring um two things up still. Um and I you know they finally finished that pace study that F you know, we had the Army Corps engineer come in and I flew in the helicopter with him and showed him, you know, from the headwaters of the Ancloat. tracing the water all the way through Thousand Oaks and all the way out um Um we were very hopeful that they would come in and um do that project with us and Swift Mud. But frankly, um here's one of the issues is is that there are, I don't know, maybe five
or six houses and a really, really bad storm event in there that get water in the house. And in Florida And most of the country streets are actually used to store water in a very what, a hundred year storm event. I think the streets are designed for M maybe you can help me, Mr Engineer. But it's very it's th we the country uses streets as as water storage in a in a high rain of high water event. If we had to elevate all the streets to to a
really high level, then you'd have to elevate all the houses around it, and you wouldn't be able to afford none of us could afford to live in it anything. So um that's just the way development is in the United States. And um and so s Army Corps passed on our PACE project, which was to hold back the Anklok River in a high water Yeah. Um then Swift Mud took a swing at it with them and us doing it and they also said it that the return on investment is just not there. It's better to buy out the houses. that
flood repeatedly and there's money available from the state to do that and I thought we were working with one of the houses on Wavy Edge, but um I don't think anyone's here that was working on that. I think it fell through and that house just keeps selling. I just looked it up and it just sells every few years it sells. But we would be happy to talk to anyone who gets water in their house to sell.
Sadly, the state of Florida is only seventy-five percent. Um that's that's a problem. Other states give a hundred percent, but our state keeps twenty-five percent of the C D PG money. Disaster money. But One more solution I'm hoping for that area, and I talked to um our folks about it a couple weeks ago, is we still I think it's I would say BMP eight, but I don't think that's right. And Jack, you're the real stormwater expert, so you might remember that I'm pretty sure Booker Creek comes in. And then comes out. So because when
that water permit was given by Swift Mud, the well heads were all dehydrated and they they actually and asked the developer to bring water into that area and to rehydrate the wetlands. So we have water that goes over to Pinellas, over on the other side of Trinity, and comes back. And um But sadly I was with someone who owns Tarponwood's golf course last night and sh they're still flooding, so the chances of us being able to let them keep all their Brooker
Creek water I don't know. I don't know if Swift Month would permit it. But we're still trying to find solutions for you guys.
Okay. Mr. Chairman Mariano. And again I think You know, we've invested a lot to fix a stormwater there. And I I firmly, firmly believe that trench situation that could be done and I think inexpensively. We've just got to get them to l allow us to permit it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna encourage every one of you to keep working with us and let your federal officials know that you want to see that water flow to go through there. There's just no reason that Oak Ridge shouldn't flo doesn't flood and you guys do.
It's water transformation, it's water flow that's got to get fixed and corrected. If that gets corrected, I think your problems get uh uh are gonna be minuscule in the whole area. And I I will say as far as the Eldridge pumping I well when I sat on Timpe Water, I asked them to go pump more out of there just for now. But I will say this, no matter where we are, the water tables are high everywhere.
Yeah and and uh lastly, I know we gotta move on. Um I did I those pumps, you know, I'd asked staff about making them more attractive. I we were checking to see I think those are permanent l permanent temporary pumps. Is that right? So I don't think they're very attractive. They're out on the street like that and I'd really like to see some kind of um surrounding structure be put over 'em. And I think that's good for security as well and just make it more attractive for the community.
Mr. Chairman Mariano.
Yes.
Looking at these photos, I believe the f most recent photos are from Hurricane Arma. Do the streets still flood the way they did since the Hurricane Arma photo or has the flooding resolved a little bit?
I've driven through there this year. I I really haven't seen I saw a little bit on Wavy Edge just starting to come up and uh I have someone there who sends me photos, but I didn't see any I didn't see any funding like this this year. Is this
Seventeen.
Is this seventeen? Oh seventeen
what
bad year. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank
you.
All those in in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, like, sign. Motion passed 5-0.