Zoning Amendment (Regular) – DMMD I, LLC/MI Homes - Joy Dr – Change in Zoning from a A-C Agricultural District to a R-4 High Density Residential District – South Central Pasco County – on the Northwest Corner of the Intersection of Kristen Lane and Joy Drive – Containing Approximately 20.00 Acres

1:05:19Item P eighty three was published in the Tampe Times on August 25, 2021.

1:05:24Hi again. Um, Liam Divine, Planning and Development, Item P eighty three. There has been ex parte communication on this. Staff has submitted to the clerk's office. Um P D twenty one dash seven five five. It is a zoning amendment in the name of DMMD I L L C and MI Homes Joy Drive. It is a zoning amendment from AC Agricultural District to R4 High Density Residential District. The subject site is currently located on the northwest corner

1:05:54of the intersection of Kristen Lane and Joy Drive.

1:06:00The subject site is currently undeveloped on approximately 20 acres. The applicant proposes to develop 54 single-family detached dwellings in conformance with the R4 high density residential district standards. The future land use for the site is Res3.

1:06:18The surrounding area is characterized by low density residential, several platted subdivisions including Oakstead. Wood Lake Preserve and Bexley, and there's also public and semi-public uses and agricultural pursuits. Access to the property is from Joy Drive, a county maintained local road. The surrounding zoning to the north and west is AC, to the east is AR, and to the south is the Oakstead MPUD.

1:06:48To the north, east, south, and west, um, feature lane use is all res three.

1:06:56And then access to the site, there's an aerial there. And this is coming with a recommendation of approval from the planning And development department and planning commission. Okay.

1:07:13Mr. Hobby?

1:07:15Welcome.

1:07:17Thank you. Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby, PA 109 North Brush Street, Tampa, Florida. I have been sworn. Commissioners, thank you for having me here today. The site that you're looking at is located on Joy Drive. Staff is pulling up a couple of exhibits that I've provided. Um this morning. The site is located in the urban service area and the south market area where the county is planning for and has provided the largest infrastructure to serve growth in the county.

1:07:48As staff noted, the site is located adjacent to several MPUDs, including Bexley North, Oakstead, Concord Station, Zona Law, and the Law MPUD that was approved by the board last month. Most of those MPUDs, if not all of them, include lot sizes that are substantially smaller than what's being proposed today. The proposal today is a Euclidean zoning. It's only going to be for up to 54 lots

1:08:18uh in the R4 district. The R4 district lots can be no smaller than 60 feet wide. So the lots you're seeing here are essentially fifty uh percent larger than the majority of the lots that have been approved in this area over the last several years. As you also saw on the earlier on the Elmo or the screen earlier, the uh site is immediately across the street from Oakstead Elementary and there's another county facility that's

1:08:48also on Joy Drive. So there's a a number of non-residential institutional uses in the area. Um I wanted to tell the board a little bit about the actual development that's being proposed by my client MI Homes. The proposal uh would be the houses will range in size from 2100 to 4450 square feet. and two thirds or more of these houses will be over three thousand feet. So this is not an entry level project. It

1:09:19will be a credit to the area. and I believe will raise values in the area. As I said, the site is very small. It's comparably a small project when looked at the uh compared to the other projects in the area. uh the other projects in the area will have a much larger effect in this area. Um at Planning Commission there was I think two or maybe three folks spoke about concerns about pre existing drainage in the area. And I've asked staff to put these exhibits up. The

1:09:49exhibit that you see there, if you look immediately north, and I'm I'm not Good at using this thing. Which button is this deal? Top top button. Oops.

1:10:02Yeah, can you show this? Let's see. There there's the site right there. Uh if you see what I've got turned on on that layer, the site is not located within a basin of special concern. And if we go to the I think it was the previous graphic that had the blue on it. Well maybe there you go. You can see that the site is not located in an area of observed flooding. Our neighbors testified that there are flooding areas in the area and they're worried

1:10:32about some stuff off of our site over at Oakstead M P U D. And I so I want to say on the record, since this is a simple Euclidean zoning, a couple of things. Number one, I can tell Commissioner Starkey, we will have a tree in the fr in the front yards.

1:10:48More than one on a six on a lot

1:10:49that side.

1:10:53And the second thing is uh we tried to have our engineer meet with our neighbors after planning commission and there was a scheduling. SNAFU, but I'm here to tell the board and reassure our neighbors we will meet with the neighbors and with county staff after the rezoning to look at the other drainage in the area and to make sure that the other drainage structures, even though they may be off of this site if the county's maintaining them, are working for the purposes

1:11:23for which they were designed. Yeah. and we will make sure that we are not exacerbating our neighbors flooding. So with that I'll I'll wait for any other questions and I'm happy to respond.

1:11:36Mr.

1:11:37Chairman Mariano's question. Can we turn these mics up again? I don't know why they're so low today. I have to like really put my mouth on it to so people can hear me. Ballast Stone Drive, that neighborhood. What's just out of curiosity, talk about compatibility, what size homes are those, Mr. Hobby?

1:11:55I believe those are forty and fifty foot lots.

1:11:57So you're looking at twenty five hundred.

1:12:00We're talking directly south.

1:12:01Yeah, so twenty five hundred or so square foot.

1:12:05Smaller, considerably

1:12:06smaller. Okay.

1:12:10Oh, is that what that is? Okay. So your homes yeah, so you're you're building it, so it's definitely

1:12:15compatibility

1:12:15are going to be significantly.

1:12:17Larger

1:12:17lots and larger homes.

1:12:19Well our lots will be a little bit more than a little bit. Approximately thirty to fifty percent larger than the last two MPUDs that were approved directly across Lake Patients. And larger homes than obviously

1:12:29what you said goes to the south. Okay. Thank you. All right.

1:12:32Well um I have a question and something just caught my eye as I'm on Google Earth. Is that a nice bike trail coming south of that Oakdale Elementary? Are y'all gonna It would be good if you can find a way to connect to that. Um but is joy is joy drive Is that a county road? Yes

1:12:51it is. And we'll be making substandard roadway improvements to that.

1:12:56Thank you. All right. This is a public hearing. Uh we have anyone signed up to speak to this item?

1:13:02Yes, Mr. Chair. We have four people in the audience who have signed up and I have one person on WebEx.

1:13:09Okay. Very nice. Yep.

1:13:13Okay. Um since there's four of you, I'll call you up two at a time. And if you could just, if you're able to stand in line, that would be great. Um Mr. David, last name is hard to read, is it Crowd? And Jason Christman?

1:13:30Yes, sir. And when you come here if you could state your name, address, and that you've been sworn.

1:13:36My name is David Crouch. I live at [address removed]. I live adjacent. I have 23 acres right beside the property. And I have some pictures I'd like you to show you. Can you turn that up, please?

1:13:49You have to speak into the mic, sir. I'm sorry. And if you could also tell us if you've been sworn for the record.

1:13:54Yes, ma'am, I have.

1:13:55Thank you, sir. Oh, I'm sorry, missed it. Yeah.

1:13:58Do you want uh

1:13:59you want a motion?

1:14:01Accepting

1:14:02to receive

1:14:03moved to receive filed. So moved.

1:14:05Motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye.

1:14:08Aye.

1:14:10I'll

1:14:10bring it here.

1:14:13Okay, thank you.

1:14:16I'll explain the the pictures a little bit in my um thing here. Um

1:14:23The pictures are to show you where the water comes from and to show you where the water goes. Oakstead is a major player, swift mud and stormwater. for Pasco County had no clue the damage they were gonna be uh ca causing us. There are three bubblers, major bubblers in Oakstead, and a bubbler is where it controls the water to flow. When uh Milo Thompson had it, There was ditches, like he said, flowed the water. My water would drop um a foot in seven days. Now it's

1:14:53thirty days two or three inches. But anyway, This uh affects everybody on Mitchell Road, and it's uh 150 acres there. It's um let me finish that uh water control coming in. The first first one, when it comes in, it's a foot and a half before it can go through. So we have to get to a flood state before the water will flow through the bubblers. When it flows through, now that one you'll see the bubblers where it shows the water It has to be it

1:15:24controls the water all through Oakstead, so it's a beautiful But it's it's a flooding for us, not for them though. Um

1:15:35Well, Back and water on Lake Patient uh flooding houses around Metro Road. is only a part of this flood problem. two miles away are the crow flies, is a little Lake Thomas and Big Lake Thomas. Which um Uh Explain how to do that. Uh moment I will explain how Netterfield's property also was causing a flood issue there because Little Lake Thomas. Used to flood really bad. And then uh if the water flows through Little Lake Thomas,

1:16:06the Big Lake Thomas comes down, you'll see the pictures there, comes to Drexel. The water's coming there. It covers about five acres right now before it flows across Drexel, goes through uh Kinsman's property, comes through Kinsman's property, comes over to Mr. Warren's property, comes down and comes through Mitchell Road, which you'll see Mitchell Road will flood completely even after you put the new road in. All that water comes there, it has to come into our flood area, which Mr. Dempsey's Grove is part of it. Uh

1:16:36see The three acres on mister Dempsey's grove, which they see is a twenty acre grove. is standing in a foot and a half of water. So when he developed that, that's going back into us. Mr. Dempsey had two groves on that. First one it died, water problem. Second one Now when he died, it was only twelve acres usable land there. They gonna tell you that. Oh it's a good piece of land, there's no problem. It's gonna affect us anything. Joy is was the old Lake Patient

1:17:07Road. That me?

1:17:09That's you. Yes, sir. Thank you for your comments. Yes, sir.

1:17:17Good afternoon, board. I'm Jason Christman. I live at [address removed], right around the corner from where this development is going on. I have been sworn in. I apologize. I don't have a set number of pictures or something I can share with you. I would love to do that at some point, but I just found about uh this particular issue uh from a neighbor yesterday, so I wanted to come and speak a little bit about it. Um there was three concerns I have with the development here, and I'm not opposed to development, but particularly this is uh a an area which causes gonna cause some serious problems. One

1:17:47is the choke point on traffic between Joy Road heading over to 41. I live on [address removed]. That already is becoming a problem with additional pieces of traffic heading that way. The second is the flooding issue. Just in the last week of the rains we had. In my property immediately around not just my land, but I own one uh 1.25 acres on [address removed] in that back area. But in my uh in my piece of land and the surrounding roadway, I had a uh about a thousand uh feet of standing water, between four and

1:18:17eight inches thick, uh uh deep. And uh it took five days to for that to recede. So this is just gonna exacerbate that flooding issue that that gentleman was talking about that we have on Mitchell Road. And on top of that, the third concern here is the wildlife. So over the last year, I've only been in Pasco County in this address for two years. I moved out of Hillsborough County. I love this county, especially in comparison. But one of the things I'm concerned here, and the reason we moved to Pasco County, was for this idea of open spaces, open

1:18:48land. I could afford a little more privacy. My neighbors were a little farther. Yeah. We've had an overrun of wildlife that have actually had the rescue around this area and the surrounding area, turtles. I have deer coming into my yard even in the daylight, trying to get into my gardens and stuff like that, because they're being run out of these areas in these larger developments on the rest of Lake Patience Road. There's no place for them to go. So you can take away this big chunk of land that's in the back by that animal shelter, and we're gonna get more of that into To

1:19:18our neighborhood residents, and it's gonna cause problems with them going through trashes and gardens and having no place to have their their families and their dociles and stuff like that. So I'm not um gonna elaborate too much on this. I appreciate your time, I appreciate the ability to bring these concerns to you, but I would just ask that instead of just looking at this as another piece of revenue. recognize that these are the around me there's a lot of families that have been here for decades. I've only been there for a few years and this directly impacts our land and our and the

1:19:48capacity of this neighborhood to just have the vibrancy to travel in and out and maintain its wildlife. So thank you.

1:19:56Thank you.

1:19:59The next two signed up are Mitzi, uh is it Scotch? Say it again. Shock. Shock. Okay. Thank you. And Brooks uh Giglio? Okay. You may Hi. Hello.

1:20:14Thanks for the opportunity to speak. Mitzi Shock, I live at [address removed]. I've lived there for 35 years. And just reiterating I'm sorry? I have been sworn in, yes. Reiterating what the gentleman before me s uh spoke about. First of all, Lake Patience Road cannot handle any more traffic. It's ridiculous. You wait forever to try and get out onto Highway forty one in the mornings for work traffic. There's no

1:20:44light there, which I realize someday there probably will be, but at this point The traffic backs up so far. It's ridiculous. The flooding when we first went out there, I mean, the water would recede pretty much immediately. Now it i it floods the whole road on Mitchell Road. And m I and my neighbors, the the water stands for days if not weeks. before it is receded all the way. And still to

1:21:14this day from from last week when we had big heavy rains. I still have water out by the road, in front of the fence. There's wo there's just water everywhere. Um third, I wanted to reiterate about the animals as well. When I first moved out there. You occasionally saw deer. I mean there's a lot of wildlife out there. But at this point I have the deer literally in the yard every day, all day long. They've had babies in my yard. They

1:21:45they don't have anywhere to go. We're just taking up all the space that these poor animals used to live in. So my main concern were those three things: the flooding, the road traffic, and the animals. Thank you for your time.

1:22:01Yeah.

1:22:09Thank you very much. My name is Brooks Julio. I appreciate your opportunity to speak.

1:22:15I've been a resident of Atlanta Lakes.

1:22:17Um could you say that you've been sworn to I have. Thank you. Yes.

1:22:20I have been a resident of Atlanta Lakes for 33 years. I know our way of life and I know what it stands for. I noticed the logo on all of your signs says this open space is vibrant places. Problem is we don't have open spaces anymore. It's been going on for years. We have slowly had encroachment of development after development go in, most of them without the knowledge of the residents. When I walked around yesterday, people on Mitchell Road didn't know that one was going in. They're furious.

1:22:52The Grove and Joy Drive, as people have said, it's filled with wildlife, and the development of this or any other acre nearby will absolutely destroy the animals. I know you've been made aware of flooding issues. The current flooding situation is bad ever since Oakstead was built at too high a density. It never should have been done, and now we have the demonstration of the fact of what we have done with that property, it's made it ever more important that Joy Drive stays wild.

1:23:22If any of you came and walked, you would see It's Joy Drive is a d it's a it's a dirt road. It's a tiny road. It doesn't even have an outlet. It has been made the main drag right there because Lake Patience Road was completely diverted for Oakstead. Yesterday when I made my way down Mitchell Road, one mile to the east, where that brand new development's going in, home after home showed the muddy scarring evidence of very deep flooding.

1:23:53Mud this thick, I saw tracks going through. As you've been made aware of also, there's 85 acres of class one fragile wetlands contiguous with this joy dive rove back to back. Joy Drive is the only 20 acres around that the animals have left to live on, and they need dry land as well as the wetlands. If we fill in the grove, if it's built upon, it will exacerbate

1:24:24all of our flooding issues that are currently going on, which you yourself said is a major issue. You that you've fallen into a pothole, that it it happens again and again. It's going to keep happening. We ask that you use the Florida, the Pasco County Comprehensive Land Use Plan. It was meant as a guide to help you make wise decisions in leaving land in its natural state in order to support the plethora of wildlife that reside upon it. Conservation must be an important consideration

1:24:54before any more developments are even considered for this area. As the man from Trinity Oak stated, the roads in the area are failing, they are flooded, they are nearly impassable. In addition, they're inadequate to handle the tur current traffic situations. And I am speaking of standstill traffic jams twice a daily. All the homeowners I spoke with yesterday mentioned traffic jams interfere with their day. Even if a light was put up, there's

1:25:24too many people in the area.

1:25:26Ma'am, your time's up.

1:25:28All right. God bless you and your hearts to make a decision for us. Thank you.

1:25:33Okay. Thank you for your comments.

1:25:37And Mr.

1:25:37Chairman we have one person on WebEx.

1:25:41Is anyone else in the room wish to speak that has not signed up?

1:25:46Yeah yeah.

1:25:48Come forward if you have not signed up and want to speak.

1:25:53Oh

1:25:53she

1:25:54dropped off? Okay. The personal audit dropped off. That's what I'm saying. I can't make them so I'll say that for the record.

1:26:02Why not? Because

1:26:04it can

1:26:05be

1:26:05voted like that. State your name and address for the clerk and my name is Becky Smith. I wasn't

1:26:11s I didn't uh swear in.

1:26:13All right.

1:26:14Do I tell you that? I want to go do it right. My name is Becky. She'll swear you have to go.

1:26:24All right. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God. Yes. Thank you. Your name and address for the record, please.

1:26:32Becky Smith, [address removed].

1:26:36Thank you.

1:26:37They I I hope you realize that there are more homeowners sitting in the audience and this is a huge problem. I've been in that area since the early eighties, living on Mitchell Road. And to tell you that the changes over the last couple of years have been drastic. And sh they're right. The wildlife is in the backyard. Our our groundwater has come up. There's not a house on our road that's not having their septic pumped every day, every week. Um, it's it's gotten to a point the area

1:27:07can't handle anymore. The the traffic, the wildlife and the homeowners are septics, everything. So how you can do this to us is unthinkable. to add more insult to the injury we've already received. I hope you do consider this and thank you for your time. Thank you.

1:27:29And then

1:27:32It's okay to walk up. Yes. I'm Debbie Moore and I was sworn in. Um I'm a resident of Kristen Lane for forty-two years now. Um [address removed]. It's adjacent to the grove. We live on six and a quarter acres and David is our neighbor. Um David is directly to the north of the grove. We are like Caddy cornered to the grove. Kristen Lane runs right beside the grove. It's all wetlands to the east of the grove, to the to the west to the east of Kristen Lane, and it's all wetlands to the south

1:28:02of Joy. Road and to the north. David has an eighty-five acre swamp north that goes all the way up. I thought he said eighteen acres the other day.

1:28:14Phew it's like the water comes right to us. Lands I've been there forty two years and I can tell ya I'm the water meter and it has gone up many feet in the pond behind us. I do believe it's a closed basin 'cause it doesn't leave. Mm-hmm. We went through this in two thousand six when uh DEVCO came in and And we were saying the density is too much for this area. My husband's Edward Moore, and he did so much for this county, and I have a briefcase of stuff that that we were it was denied by your commissioning planners planners because it was too dense for the area. And then uh it's like the

1:28:44builders and developers, they make their money and they leave, forever causing us Pays destroy our preferred way of life. We have to pay increased taxes to repair the roads. Utilities must be further studied to accommodate this. The road just cannot handle it. The road goes through the swamp, through the wetlands, through that grove. Overcrowded schools cannot handle it. There's Oakstead. There the Oakstead school went in and my daughter was in there at third grade. Next year there are 17 portables out there. They're still out there. The school could have some net natural

1:29:15kind of little areas to go hang in this grove. We should protect it. We should buy it. I've called land acquisitions. I've called natural resources. I've called commissioners and and Nobody everybody just thinks it's a piece of like a green snap on a postage paper. It's not. This is a n neighborhood and we've been here forever. And we have a right to protect our way of life too. I pray that God guides you into your wisdom and you'll make the right decision. But could you please look at the pictures?

1:29:58We we are Shrek. We're defending the grove. My husband my husband was in front of trees when they were trying to moan down on the case.

1:30:05Okay. This is Sean, my son.

1:30:09Oh, this is a very important I I'll hit the ones in the back too. Critical difficult.

1:30:22Hello, my name is Sean Moore. We're uh

1:30:35No. was accurately immigrated to handle Hmm.

1:30:48I got it Yeah, I missed it Name it.

1:30:57Oh map.

1:31:01You know the houses out?

1:31:07Documentary.

1:31:10The photos. This is our backyard.

1:31:12Yeah. Our backyard.

1:31:16They're just coming up

1:31:16now.

1:31:19Here they are. The pictures are up.

1:31:21They're up on this. this. Okay, he's

1:31:22got 'em on

1:31:23they're up

1:31:23on

1:31:23the phone.

1:31:26We got it on the screen now.

1:31:28They've got them on our screen. Oh yeah. Okay.

1:31:32And we all have a thing in front of us to see and have to look at. So

1:31:37Whose house was

1:31:38taking the backyard this one.

1:31:43That is a swamp. That's a yard three straight. That is a cypress one.

1:31:49We have to come to the microphone.

1:31:53Okay, that's David's backyard that you're looking at.

1:31:56Can you s pause the photo while they're going through it or does it on Oh.

1:32:04My my friend wanted us to put a whole map up too of of that area because when you just scan north the swamps, that eighty five miles you'll see that wet and you'll see these big lakes that are just coming right down.

1:32:16That's the groove right there. That's the groove. That's our backyard. That's our yard. And this isn't a nimble thing. This is a save the wetlands, the wildlife, and our way of life thing.

1:32:28Okay.

1:32:29Thank you for your comment.

1:32:30Okay. Please look at the area and make a s wise decision that can know what

1:32:34Appreciate your help.

1:32:39Ma'am, you can't speak from the audience.

1:32:43She'd get the

1:32:46Yeah.

1:32:48Well we're we're about to vote, so thank you very much.

1:32:52Mr. Chairman Mariano.

1:32:56Yeah, I was gonna ask a question to staff, so

1:32:59She

1:33:00wanted

1:33:00to speak to the report.

1:33:02There's a

1:33:02couple more people want to speak. There's nobody on WebEx. Is there someone else wish to speak that has not signed up? Come forward.

1:33:13And lined up right behind her.

1:33:16Everybody wants to speak on why not?

1:33:18Everybody that's wants to speak that has not spoken before.

1:33:24Please your name and address for the clerk.

1:33:26Yes, I'm Tina Christman and I live at [address removed]. I have pictures, unfortunately. I'm sorry. Have you been sworn in?

1:33:35I have not. Okay. Please read. What about the lady behind? Have you been sworn in? Can you raise your hand at the same time?

1:33:41Okay, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you, God. Yes. Thank you. You may proceed.

1:33:50Um I have pictures, but I did not know find out about this meeting until yesterday at the last minute. Thankfully someone came to my home to let me know what was happening. We've only been here, like my husband said, for two years. I couldn't get the photo up, but this is my front yard that's completely submerged underwater without any additional building even happening. This happens all summer. You know, maybe if we had known.

1:34:13What was your address again?

1:34:14[address removed]. So as you can see, this is the side of my house. And I'm sorry guys, I wish I could get these up. My front yard is completely submersed. My daughter can go out, she's nine and walk and it'll come up to her waist. This happens when we get several days of rain in a row. It's happened in the last two weeks. I took the last week to get the water out of my yard. We've tried to grade it up as much as we can, but unfortunately, when we built the home, they

1:34:44graded it as much as they would allow before we would have to invest additional funds. When we were in the middle of building our house, they came and told us that we needed to build it up higher. So we had our Already paid $15,000 out of pocket to do that. So this is very alarming for us. I mean, it's great. I want the animals. We moved here because we wanted the country setting to raise our girls in a rural area. The neighbors are great. We love where we live, but it has been building up. So quickly. We already have a neighborhood building across the street that's gonna be renting

1:35:15only, not even purchasing, which you know. I work in the real estate business. I own my own real estate company. I understand how this works, but this is alarming for us. And finding out that I have so many neighbors that have been dealing with this for a year and they're, you know, very, very concerned. I'm thankful I was able to find out. But This is a problem. I'm wondering what's gonna happen to my home if you guys allow this build to happen. What flooding's gonna happen, you know. So that's all I wanted to say. I wanna thank you for your time. Mr. Chairman M just can she just w

1:35:43can walk around and just sh show because it's one of th since you can't.

1:35:47Is there a

1:35:51In uh in Pasco County came out and inspected and everything b prior to your building.

1:35:57Yeah, so they built our house on a hundred year flood plan. So I'm very lucky my house is built up a couple feet. I mean I can't leave my property some days I need a boat just to get to my vehicle and I have to park it in the back. On the other side of the

1:36:12if she texts it, can I just email it?

1:36:15Yeah, I'd be happy to text it or email it.

1:36:21Yeah,

1:36:22I'm not sure.

1:36:25I don't know.

1:36:27I do have a question of uh seventeen. There's a there's a plumbing company.

1:36:34I'm gonna I'm gonna need a motion to receive those pictures.

1:36:38All right, I'm gonna motion to receive those pictures that we viewed. Even though you c uh are you gonna email them? Is she emailing them?

1:36:47All right, motion to receive and file.

1:36:49Second.

1:36:50All

1:36:50right.

1:36:50We got a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passed five zero.

1:37:02And you said your address was [address removed]. It doesn't show up.

1:37:11All right, you've got the wall for six

1:37:13thirty.

1:37:13Thank you.

1:37:15Yeah. Ma'am, you come forward, give us your name and address. And if you've been for

1:37:21My name is Lana Chisholm Keane. I happen to own the original

1:37:29address.

1:37:30It's [address removed]. And I happen to own the original Mitchell House. We bought it from Mr. and Mrs. Mitchell in sixty seven.

1:37:42I've been there quite a while. Ma'am, you've got to say that you've been restoring on the record.

1:37:47I've been sworn on the record. Um, I I didn't expect to speak, but you need to sort of hear what I have to say. Um, we've seen such a change in the last Seven years, five years maybe. It is partly the water. Lake Patience is trying to be a lake again over the road. There's what we call the swamp. That was my neighbor. I watch

1:38:18her children play in the mud out there. It's tr still trying to be a lake. I can handle that, but it has gotten much worse. We pumped out septic tanks recently that we never had to deal with. We now have a pedophile. Trailer Park. Down on Lake Patience Road where we turn on to Mitchell Road, we deal with that. We are seeing so many people now using

1:38:49our road. as an exercise baby carriage rode that we can't even drive on our own road. That's a problem. We're so overpopulated now. We're getting a high density rental place being built. Lake Patience is is like twenty cars backed up from the school going

1:39:19through that road opening now to 41. All the way back to Oakstead development. It's amazing the load of people. We are plastered with signs and I want to bring that up to the county. We are looking like a trash dump. And I just paid somebody $200 because we had friends coming out for dinner, and I

1:39:49had to pay to have a king-size bed and springs and a queen-size bed with it, and the box springs with a dog cage. in our curve going out of Mitchell Road. It's a dump site now. With signs plastered anywhere anybody can stick one. One cut snipe signs? The yard? The No

1:40:20Business signs, tree cutting, lawn mowing, uh anything that people we Pasco County, you guys are letting us down.

1:40:35I don't know why money takes such a precedence in this country over people.

1:40:42Thank you for your time. Thank you.

1:40:44We haven't voted, yes. Oh no.

1:40:49Well the in response to the snipe in response to the snipe signs, I was gonna say it, they are illegal.

1:40:54Yeah,

1:40:54so they are illegal. Whose district is

1:40:56that? Mine, but this is the first time they've met they've heard about Slow.

1:41:02Yeah, it is the right-of-way.

1:41:03I pulled I pulled two out and put 'em in my car. We made that illegal.

1:41:10Steve.

1:41:12I'm gonna ask this Clark Hobby again for the record. I'm gonna ask our engineers, our civil engineer and our transportation engineer to come up and answer questions. Uh if I can get back to that one exhibit again, maybe I can make this pointer work. Maybe Dan can make his work and show me how to do it.

1:41:32Well.

1:41:34So the subject site is right here. Okay? Let me get closer to the mic. The subject site is right here. many of the neighbors you heard discussing stuff. So this is Joy Drive. The neighbors were talking about Mitchell, which is over in this area, The closest as the crow flies that this site is to Mitchell is over a quarter of a mile. It does not have access on Mitchell. None of the flooding issues you just heard about on Mitchell are germain to this site. This site

1:42:05has a jurisdictional approval of the wetlands from uh Swift Mud already. Only two of the acres, 20 acres, are in wetlands. There's testimony about a lot of sites that are not this site, but this site is not on Mitchell. It is not in an area of observed flooding. We've had these observed flooding maps for twenty five or thirty years, and if it flooded, it would be on this map. It is not on the map. Furthermore, as to transportation, and I've got Steve

1:42:35to answer questions, Steve Henry, but our transportation study, the timing and phasing analysis, indicates that even with the project traffic, with the background traffic through the build out year, the V over C on this segment of Lake Patience does not even get to point five. not not one where the failure would occur. It doesn't even get to point five. I submit to you. All you're hearing here is there are neighbors that have flooding problems, and we don't deny that. This site,

1:43:05there's no evidence that this site floods. We will have to follow the rules to make sure that we don't exacerbate any of the flooding off site. And I told you that we would do that. And you know, we look forward to working with the neighbors to determine if there are off-site issues with maintenance, for instance, in Oakstead. that are causing a problem. But this site has larger lots Very quality community that's going to do nothing but raise values. And one other thing just to point out for you on Mitchell, there are

1:43:36two mobile home parks. There's one further up here and the one down here. Is it seven units per acre? Seven, seven units per acre. The other one is about four or five. So we're going to be raising the values here. We will ensure during the site planning process and the Swift MUD review process that we don't cause a problem with. Drainage for our neighbors and there is no traffic problem on Lake Patience. That and I'd like to submit the timing and phasing analysis

1:44:06on the to the clerk on the record. It's simply not enough for members of the public to say that there's a traffic problem when they don't have expertise.

1:44:16Excuse me in the Quiet an audience, please.

1:44:21Move to receive and file.

1:44:23Second.

1:44:23Motion and second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I'm

1:44:27I'm happy to answer any other questions you might have and we have the experts here to answer the questions.

1:44:32Mr. Yeah.

1:44:37Tell me about the Euclid and zoning that we spoke of before. You you mentioned there was a Euclidean zoning on the site.

1:44:44So what is being requested is a is a Euclidean zoning category. So it's not a it's not an MPD, it's not a master plan unit development, it is R4, which means that they can build whatever R4 allows. Um the

1:45:01smallest lot of which is sixty foot wide. So that's frequently, Commissioner, the reason why you're seeing MPUDs is people in this area have generally wanted smaller lots, forty and fifty foot lots, which we're not suggesting here. Okay.

1:45:17Thank you.

1:45:19Happy to answer any other questions you might have. Again, I am telling the board we will be out there with the neighbors. We just lost

1:45:25our screens.

1:45:26And with county staff. uh after the zoning hearing to make sure that we do the right thing on the flooding. But I can't do it during the zoning process. Site has to be engineered.

1:45:40Mr.

1:45:40Mr.

1:45:40Chairman Mariano.

1:45:41Mr. Mariano? Yeah. Clark, you know, looking at these observed flooding maps, it's not in it, but it's right next to it. Right. The busiest road going up to forty one could have travel all along. Some of the pictures we saw showed water on Lake Patience as well. Uh I don't know what the condition of the structure or the strength of the road is at this point. Uh we just did a pr pr uh a paving assessment for Trinity Oaks that with high water tables has helped that road disintegrate between flooding, et cetera. But if I see flooding

1:46:12all the way down that road I gotta think this is not gonna make it any better. And then if the if the Weirs from the and I'm not sure where the pictures shown that you showed out there or they were that the first gentleman showed. of who's holding water back before it can go. and get released. If all the if everybody's holding water back and it's not going anywhere, not flowing out like they said it used to flow and now it's not flowing. Um How how do we know this is not gonna make it worse for those s same folks?

1:46:40As you know, with the county's rules and the Swift Mud Rules say that we cannot exacerbate flooding. We cannot hold back water that's transmitting through the site in the pre-development condition that would make flooding for any of our neighbors upstream or downstream worse. So that's what we'll be looking at during the engineering process. There was some testimony in another uh rezoning on lake patients within the last couple of years that there may be a drainage structure that's under Lake Patience that might not have been

1:47:10maintained well, and that's part of what I want our engineer to look at with county staff. In the Planning Commission uh hearing, Will Poon spoke on behalf of the staff, and I believe Will and his team will be. happy to come out and meet with us during that process to make sure that if there's an issue at Oakstead or at Oakstead Elementary or the drainage structures that are in Lake Patience they're they're being properly maintained so that the water is being transmitted through the site. But we cannot make it worse. Swift Mud

1:47:40and the county staff will not let us do that.

1:47:44Uh reading through the traffic study Um It talks about different intersections, but I don't think it actually references US forty one. Was that in there when I just moved

1:47:53it? Steve, I believe it does. Doesn't I it just it apparently it does not have the intersection at forty one.

1:48:02to the folks here getting out to forty one, that's their main access Going north-south from there. Right. That's in why wouldn't that be part of the traffic study? I'm gonna

1:48:12ask Steve. He can even know better than I. Uh Steve Henry, Linkson Associate, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa, 33607. Uh one of the reasons is because

1:48:25we look at when we do these timing and phasing analysis is You know, the in the kind of the threshold is five percent of level of service capacity of the road. And once we go beyond that, then we start looking at at adjacent intersections. In this case, we're less than three percent of the capacity of uh Lake Patience Road. And in fact, we're only adding a a few cars to that road because of the size of the project. So from that standpoint, that kind of establishes the the study area that we will look at. And so in this instance we looked at

1:48:55the segments of Lake Patience Road, and then we also looked at uh Joy Drive and Lake Patience. And because of the capacity, which is less than 0.5 VC ratio, which again your threshold is one, that was kind of the reason why we didn't go out any further than looking at that.

1:49:12Now that you've heard the people speak to say there's a big backup on that roadway trying to get out, does that make you think maybe you should take a look at it?

1:49:20Damn is indicating that it's signaling.

1:49:25Right. Um well one of the things that I guess we're saying is that there there's the potential for the signalization of that intersection, which we can look at what that where that is in the CIP as far as the signalization. Right now that's unsignalized, and that's part of the issue right now, is that it's an unsignalized intersection. Once that's signalized, then the the the the volume there would not have a problem getting out. It's really just the signalization of that intersection. Well we don't know when that's coming either. Uh Yeah, but we'd we'd have to.

1:49:52People pay for the single uh developments pay for the singles though. Mr. Chairman Mariano.

1:49:57I'll have to look.

1:49:58I don't know where these

1:49:59are.

1:49:59Can I just follow up on Commissioner Mariano just real quick? Just.

1:50:07No.

1:50:10The question was asked by Commissioner Oak this may or may not be signalized and we don't have an answer now. Um at times there's developments that get put in and they actually and they actually pay for the cost of the signal to move the project forward. Yeah. Guys, you gotta you can't you're gonna he's gonna have to take you out. I don't want that to happen to you. Can't talk from the audience, okay? Um that does happen from time to time. Is that something that's been considered?

1:50:37Uh well

1:50:40speaking with Dan, the site's only twenty acres and it's like a half mile or a mile from Forty One. We do not require people generally It's a half mile? It's it's a quite a long ways from Forty One. It's it's this is not right adjacent to Forty One in Lake Bayonet Point. I didn't know it was that far though. Okay.

1:50:58And again the the the volume of traffic just to give you an example in the p in the PM peak hour we've got twenty one cars coming in in the afternoon we've got thirteen going out. That volume does not warrant a signal or justify the cost of putting a signal in.

1:51:15Yeah, exactly.

1:51:16I mean that that kind of volume. When we have larger size projects that may warrant the signal. In this case the volume is so low it just does not warrant the ability to put one in. Okay. Okay, but I'm not sure.

1:51:29Commissioner Oakley

1:51:31was still going. I just butted in on Commissioner Oriana.

1:51:34No,

1:51:34he he was still going, I just kinda jumped off.

1:51:39No, Commissioner Oriana was still going.

1:51:42I understand. I have a person that called in on WebEx earlier. They call back, is that person there now?

1:51:50So can we check to see if it's the if it's uh Caitlin uh Fisk, please?

1:51:56The person that's um that called in, can you please state your name? Hi, this is Caitlin Pitt. Okay, so it is the um it is the um the person who had signed up for WebEx and she had a she had a call in. Okay. Um if you could please state your name and address and um whether or not you have been sworn.

1:52:15My name is Caitlin Fifth. My address is [address removed]. Um and I have not yet been sworn in.

1:52:22Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and swear you in now. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God.

1:52:31Yes, I do.

1:52:35Um I also, along with many of my neighbors, just found out about this yesterday, so I I haven't had much time to prepare anything. Um I also do not live immediately adjacent to Joy Drive. I live um a little bit up the road of Lake Patience. Um Second Street is a little bit closer to 41. Uh, I've lived there for about um four four years. My daughter was raised there and Um, I also share the concerns with the congestion at 41. Um I've noticed in only a few years the increase in traffic trying to get onto forty one.

1:53:06Um, it's become really difficult, especially in the mornings. Um We in addition the traffic around Oakstead Elementary is uh i increasing. Um Oakstead already houses many of its students in portables. The school itself is not equ was not built to handle the volume of uh residents that we currently have in this area. Um we just had a lot of um in addition to the rental communities being built. uh directly across from Mitchell Road. There were are some new apartment developments that were built. Um all of this is

1:53:36increasing the um congestion in Oakstead Elementary. So my concern is about adding even more homes to this area, which um those students would be zoned for Oakstead Elementary. Uh we haven't really considered the impact on the elementary school in the area and of course the the high school as well. Um So I just uh would ask uh for the um educational impact to also be considered in addition to the congestion of the the general area. Thank you very much.

1:54:04Well thank you.

1:54:07All right, Mr. Mariano. Mr. I'm coming back forward to

1:54:11So as far as the the back to the flooding again, it I've got concerns about what the quality of the Lake Patience Road itself is as well. Um I mean the the water table is up high. Probably gonna stay high from what Ps the folks are saying. I'm

1:54:25sure

1:54:26you

1:54:26haven't

1:54:26studied

1:54:26the road. I I do our our engineer has looked at it some and is here and can maybe help provide some assistance on that. So tell me about the quality of the road that you know.

1:54:38Hi, my name is David Fuchson with the engineering firm of Fuchson Engineering, and I have been sworn.

1:54:47Late Patience. Lake Patience Road is It's in good shape. It's gonna be uh reconstructed. There's permits with Swift Mud that the county's already uh obtained. I'm not sure about the uh timing of that, but the road will be resurfaced uh at least to the railroad tracks. I'm not sure what goes beyond that. Um it's has a reasonable level of service right now, but it definitely needs some improvements which the county is pursuing.

1:55:16Are they going to make in intersection improvements at 41 as they do that?

1:55:19I

1:55:19am

1:55:19not aware of that. Perhaps the county staff could speak to that. If you like I could find out for you.

1:55:25Okay. Um from what you know about the observed flooding, do you channel the flooding as well? Stormwater?

1:55:32The the flooding along Mitchell Road or

1:55:34When I look at Lake Patience Road, the map that he's got up right now, it shows flooding all along there has been observed.

1:55:39I do not know those details, sir, but I would like to say something. Uh the areas that the residents have been bringing up, which is b basically north and east of us That area drains around our project. There's a major culvert under Lake Patience, about a thousand feet or so east of the intersection of Joy and Lake Patience. There's another outfall to the northwest, which goes westward into Oakstead. There's no outfall that goes through our property

1:56:09that serves the Mitchell Road and the Kristen Lane area. Yeah. Our outfall conversely is going away from those areas. It's draining southwestwardly under Joy Drive. There's an existing culvert. that then drains on the west side of the school property and under Lake Patience. A completely different outfall from the areas that the residents have raised today. But if you would I will I will I can find out about those intersection improvements and get back with you.

1:56:38Okay.

1:56:40Thank you.

1:56:41We

1:56:41can talk

1:56:41that.

1:56:42Mr. Chairman Mariano.

1:56:44Com Commissioner, if I might quickly, I mean, I think that was the most telling testimony we've heard here. The flooding concerns, they don't even have the same outfall as the site. Doesn't go through the site. We don't outfall in their direction. Commissioner Fitzpatrick, I'm sorry.

1:57:00Thank you. Looking at the property of Razor Map website. How much of that is wetlands of the property in discussion? And how much is uplands?

1:57:11About two acres of the twenty acres is wetland, according to the Swift Mudd approved jurisdictional. The J D that was just done. So eighteen of the twenty acres is Upland.

1:57:26And then for the current traffic study, what is the current traffic study of cars utilizing that road today? And then I know you mentioned twenty one cars and thirteen vehicles leaving, but you would we're looking to do forty? Homes on the property?

1:57:43Are you talking on on lake patients?

1:57:46You're talking about fifty four homes and you're saying only twenty one cars would leave?

1:57:51What what we're saying is in in the in the PM peak hour on the the one segment of the of at Lake Patience from Joy Drive two forty one. We would have thirty again, th they're going east west on Lake Patience, so we're looking at that segment from Joy Drive two forty one. So thirteen cars would be going out towards 41 in the PM peak hour and then inbound would be twenty-one. No, that there w obviously there will be some coming from

1:58:21the west also, but that's the distribution of the traffic and the impact on that segment from Joy Drive two forty one.

1:58:29I know you also mentioned Joy Drive that runs north and south. But what are the main what would the most likely road be utilized to get to that development? Were they be coming from fifty four or would they coming be coming from Land O' Lakes?

1:58:47We we had we we estimate that about sixty percent would be coming from fifty four, I mean coming from forty one on Lake Patience and then about forty percent from the west on Lake Patience. Obviously

1:59:00you might want to explain to her that Lake Patience runs the Sun Sun Lake

1:59:06Yeah. What uh Mr. Hobby is saying is that Lake Patience currently runs two Sun Lake, so obviously you can get Um two fifty four and other ones roadways from there. So it it runs basically from 41 to Sun Lake Boulevard. So we'd have again what we're estimating is about forty percent to and from the west and about sixty percent to and from the east. Okay. And again, our impact on that segment is less than three percent of the capacity of the road. So the impact is very

1:59:36small on that segment of Lake Patience, which is currently operating at a VC ratio of less than five. Point five.

1:59:46In keeping with the consistency with the surrounding residents, the ra the residents directly adjacent to this property, they're all cone A C.

1:59:57But uh

2:00:00Staff can pull I think the zoning map up. There is s there is AC in the area. I mean the the project directly north of us is AC, but there's also again there's smaller zoning immediately to the east. There's county commercial and institutional uses on Joy Drive past our site. There's there's there's there's animal shelter and other uses past us. So Joy Drive, as it was the testimony from the neighbors indicated,

2:00:31was originally the Lake Patients Road. This was the cut through. Originally this was a larger functioning road, not just a local road.

2:00:40Mike

2:00:41That's what the testimony was.

2:00:44No talking from the audience.

2:00:49But again, Commissioner, it's in the urban service area, it's planned Res three. That's what I'm saying. I mean, we've we followed the comp plan, this is what we're supposed to be doing in the urban service area. And we've now approved about fifteen or twenty thousand units and MPUDs in this immediate area. And we've got immediately across from the site is Oakstead Elementary, which probably has a much, much greater transportation impact and impact on the area than Anything

2:01:20we'll do and you've just approved two other MPUDs with a lot more units and a lot smaller lots directly across Lake Patience from all these people.

2:01:30My biggest concern is the property adjacent directly to the north and to the east because those are all zone agriculture. Are what kind of buffer are you gonna have between from your property to the adjacent property to the north? Because that's

2:01:45of agricultural north of this property in question.

2:01:50Again, Dave Hughston. One thing that Clark did not talk about is the lot depth. We don't have a hundred-foot lot depth. We have 120 plus. Some of the lots are as much as 150 foot deep. We can provide at least a 10-foot buffer along the east property line and along the north property line, both of which have wetlands on the adjacent property. Uh so um we will discuss that with staff during the uh construction plan review, but we have the opportunity

2:02:20to provide uh reasonably s w reasonably sized buffers along the east and north property lines.

2:02:27Commissioner, are you done?

2:02:29Do the citizens have a say during the plan review? Do you work for the

2:02:34the comp plan and everything was

2:02:36I gonna have to leave before we vote.

2:02:38Well you just mentioned the plan review, so the site plan review.

2:02:43They we can I mean we can agree to notice our neighbors and we can make them part of that so that they can provide uh input to staff during the site plan review, we have no objection to that.

2:02:55But taking that their concerns into consideration due to the fact they have nineteen acres directly north and then even to the east it's one acre, two acres, one acre and one acre.

2:03:08I mean there isn't there there's no question a lot of the sites that you're looking at north of us have large wetland areas and that's why I submit to you that they haven't been rezoned for smaller lots yet. That I think the neighbor immediately north of us testified that a lot of his property is wetland. I mean it's a very significant portion. So I maybe it's not developable. developable, I'm not sure. But again, Commissioner, we have no objection um and I'll be happy with everybody who's

2:03:38spoken on the record to he today and even all the folks that we noticed in the rezoning to notice everybody. with our uh submittals to the county during the site plan review process and they can participate with staff. uh in addition to the meeting that I said we would already do with the neighbors on the drainage issues.

2:04:03Ms. Starkey.

2:04:05Yeah, um I uh also longtime Pasco resident and um I've been looking at the Google earth maps and and um I see that a lot of those folks along Mitchell There's a lot of wetlands up there and And if you built thirty years ago, you built when we were pumping a lot and your land was a lot drier. So But I I feel your pain that you have a lot of water in your yards and My house near Estita. the river comes up and goes

2:04:34in my backyard, but then it goes away. Um but it seems to me that we should spend some time with engineering looking at lake patients in that area and seeing if there are any provement improvements that we can do. But that is separate. I think from this parcel approval that's this is not This is not up there on Mitchell where the flooding is. That that blue line You know that's a good idea. I think uh I think that's a good idea. needs consideration but not in effect

2:05:05to this parcel. I was sitting there asking Clark to put a trail to the school and I realized it's right next to the school. Right. So Please all you need to do is put see if you can get a gated

2:05:15Walk

2:05:15across the street right there. Commissioner, we're

2:05:18actually working with the school board.

2:05:20Yeah, that's

2:05:20great. I appreciate what you're saying, but might I also, depending on where you go with this, I do want to reiterate that what I just said, if there is any motion, we will meet with the neighbors, we will notice the neighbors, because I want them to be part of this, Commissioner. I am not trying to make anybody's drainage worse.

2:05:40I I believe

2:05:41that I believe the drainage is a separate issue.

2:05:45Um Swift Mud through Swift Mud rules and then we added on even you know, we have another set of eyes over Swift Mud because of flooding issues in the past. Um A neighborhood cannot flood a neighborhood. As a matter of fact, what I've seen Um in my nine years up here and many years In the community following development, is that a lot of developments come in and they fix flooding problems for the areas around it. I can say that Longleaf fixed Help Fairway Springs. I've just seen it multiple times. So

2:06:15I I have no I have all confidence that you will not cause worse flooding in your community. You're um right next to the school, so there won't be school traffic added onto the road. road. It's less density than other parcels all around it. It's not the problem or fault or responsibility of this landowner to fix the flooding issues over on Mitchell Road. That's that's that's a property rights violation right there. So um I I would be an incline to

2:06:46um To vote yes, but it's not my district. But I'll make the motion if ev if we wanna I'll make the motion to approve this.

2:06:55Having a motion.

2:07:00I'll second.

2:07:03Okay. Got a motion of second to

2:07:05approve? With the discussion. With

2:07:07the stipulations that I made.

2:07:08With the stipulations what he had stated that he will work with them and then we'll see. with an additional stipulation that Our public works team will work on With Mitchell Road to get their drainage in the right-of-way.

2:07:22Thank you, Commissioner. I agree. And um obviously we need code l code enforcement to be spending some more time back in their place.

2:07:28Code enforcement's already out right now.

2:07:30Very good. Oh good job.

2:07:32I'll remind

2:07:33I'll remind the board that this is a Euclidean zoning. So so they're not conditions on the rezone, but

2:07:40I will follow three with them. You have my word, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Thank you. I will I will ensure that happens.

2:07:46I will follow up with you. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, like, sign. Motion passed. Five zero. Okay.

2:07:54No,

2:07:54no. No.

2:07:54He's an

2:07:58excuse me. Pass Passed four one.

2:08:02Okay.

2:08:05Yeah.

2:08:06Yeah.

2:08:09Let's go back to our

2:08:13Eighty five? Eighty four. Eighty four. You got P eighty four. I think you got eighty four. Oh we got eighty four yet? What's

2:08:19eighty five?

2:08:21Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah I'll handle that.

2:08:25Oh I'm sorry. All right, P eighty four.