Zoning Amendment (Regular) – Denton Place MPUD Master Planned Unit Development – DCH Timber, LLC – A Rezoning Request from an AC Agricultural Zoning District to an MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District to Allow for the Development of a Maximum of 804 Residential Dwelling Units and Associated Infrastructure on Approximately 306.7 Acres

1:52:50Item P one nineteen was published in the Tampa Times on July twentieth, twenty twenty two.

1:53:01Good afternoon, Tammy Snyder, Planning and Development Department. I saw that Uh we have Denton Place M P U D, P D twenty two seventy five eighty two. Here's the location map. We have Houston Avenue running along the north boundary, Denton Avenue running along the south.

1:53:24Proposed is a rezoning request from an AC agricultural district to an MPUD Master Plan Unit Development District.

1:53:32Whoa.

1:53:35to allow the development of a maximum of eight hundred four residential dwelling units, detached, attached, and or multifamily courtyard homes which are built to rent, and associated infrastructure on approximately 306.7 acres. The applicant is also requesting the following variation from the LDC, LDC 901.6.10, street design and dedication, cul-de-sacs. The request is to eliminate the cul-de-sac requirement when street stubs are less than 150

1:54:05feet. All dead-end streets in excess of 150 feet will have the cul-de-sac as required. Section 901.6.11 street design and dedication requirements design and construction continuation of existing street pattern and street access to adjoining properties This section requires streets within the proposed development to be connected to adjacent areas to provide for proper traffic circulation. And Ovat Street is a private street. This is up in the northwest corner.

1:54:36So this project will not have access to it unless approved by the responsible HOA. And even then it is proposed to be emergency only. And LDC section 901.4, Substandard Roadway Analysis. County Attorney Staff had requested a potential stabilized connection to Eden Road, which is also on the west. Which is a substandard roadway with large rural residential lots. The applicant agreed to said potential connection, although

1:55:06the access is not necessary for the project given the number of locations of other proposed accesses, as long as the county waived the substandard road requirements for that. And here's our master plan.

1:55:22The proposed development is in the North Market area, located on the north side of and abutting Denton Avenue and the south side of and abutting Houston Avenue, approximately 2,600 feet east of Little Road. Currently the parser reflects its original zoning district and has been used for agricultural pursuits. No increase in density from the existing res three future land use is proposed and the property abuts the conceptually planned Denton Avenue Trail to connect US nineteen to the Sun Coast Parkway. And the 46.84

1:55:54plus-minus acre category one wetland in the northwest middle of the site will remain as a conservation area and will not have residential areas encroaching into the conservation area or into the required wetland buffer areas. LDC section 402.2.8 specifies that variations from the code may be reviewed and approved by the PC and BCC during the public hearing held. Variations shall be allowed where the BCC specifically finds that the proposed variations meet or

1:56:24exceed the intent of the code. Staff has reviewed the request of variations and found that they do meet the intent of the LDC. The proposed request is consistent with the PASCO LDC, Chapter 400, Subsection 402.2 zoning amendment, MPUD Master Plan Unit Development, and with the applicable provisions of the PASCO County Comprehensive Plan. And with that, the recommendation is approval with conditions. All right.

1:56:48I think we have the applicant here.

1:56:50Well I'm sorry, just a couple just a couple of things to note. Housekeeping. Um we did receive quite a few expertise after the agenda closed, so those did not get uploaded to the agenda, but they have been sent directly to the clerk's office. And last night I sent out a couple condition of approval re last minute revisions. COA nineteen is actually all new. It it was a revised, revised. So the whole condition nineteen is new, not just the reference to Coyote Road. Okay, I'm

1:57:20gonna look that up.

1:57:20Okay, here's the applicant. Wait, any questions for staff?

1:57:24No question, I just want to say I've had many conversations with the residents as well as the applicant.

1:57:29Okay.

1:57:32She said number nineteen.

1:57:34Madam Chair. DOC Members Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby PA 109 North Brush Street, Tampa, Florida, have been sworn. Here on behalf of the applicant, the subject project that you've heard about, we've been working on for over a year. Maybe we can turn the mic volume down just to hair getting some feedback. Uh the subject uh area uh is a highly variable and a bit of a mishmash from a planning perspective.

1:58:05and it contains a combination of Res 3, Res 6, ROR, and public semi public On the north side of the subject property, we're adjacent to the Lake Marinette. Um uh RMH uh manufactured housing community, which is uh built out at a pretty high density. On the south side, we are adjacent to the Three Lakes RV park, which has over 300 RV spots directly to the south. We

1:58:37have uh an unplatted subdivision to our southeast. Which is an older community with unpaved roads. And then the rest of our boundary to the east is comprised of a large county spray field that again is in the public semi-public future land use classification, which generally indicates large utility infrastructure. So the the subject area is one that uh has been undeveloped

1:59:07all these years. Um it has had pines on it uh for a period of time. But uh because of the varying nature of the future land use uh and the area there's no discernible area around which to build or predict what the uses might be. So there really is a basic compatibility issue with any development in the area because there are all kinds of uses and it would be

1:59:37hard to say that something is not compatible with the surrounding area given the variability. Uh one thing we can point out because I think we'll hear from some neighbors that this is not a rural area. It may have a rural feel, particularly to the east of here. And the there is an identified rural area that starts about a mile or mile and a half to the east of the site, but this site has never been in one of the county's identified rural areas. To

2:00:08the contrary, this is an area that the county has been seeking uh investment and reinvestment uh for really most of my adult life. Uh You all know that my dad was a land use attorney here for many years, and the county and the land use community has struggled for years to find development opportunities in this area. And so while our neighbors may have a differing opinion, I'm actually quite proud to be

2:00:38here today and to have this project because it's going to be a large scale. Scale investment in the community, the likes of which it really has not seen since the 70s or early 80s. So I'm gonna turn this over for just a minute to members of our team. I have Anna Rittenauer with uh Clearview Land Design, who's a planner, and she's gonna give you a little bit of a planning background on the area and the project. And then after Anna is done, Steve Henry. Henry with uh Links and

2:01:08Associates will talk about the transportation a little bit a little bit and then I'll uh conclude. Thank you.

2:01:19Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name's Anna Rittenauer. I'm a certified land planner at Clearview Land Design 3010 West Azeal Suite 150 Tampa. Um I don't believe I've spoken before this board before, so I'll just let you know I've been working in Florida for about eight years and really heavily in Pasco County for the last two and a half or so with rezoning and comp plan amendments behind Clark Hobby and others. Um so I guess can

2:01:46push this.

2:01:48Here's our project team. Um I'm gonna kind of skip through these only because Clark mentioned a lot of this stuff already, but I just want to um clarify some things and get a little bit more in detail. So the general site location so that you all are aware is um we're to the east of US nineteen, right between Houston Avenue and Denton Avenue. It's approximately three hundred and six acres in total. The site is currently wooded land for timber, and we're there's approximately

2:02:1850 acres of wetland today. Most of that will be preserved with the site plan that you'll see in a moment. Here is the existing zoning map, which I'm now realizing is a little difficult to see, but you can kind of see that there's a lot of different zoning districts in the area. I think the best map though is the land use map, where you can see that we are adjacent. The the site is Res 3, and we are adjacent to Res 3. public semi public, Res 9,

2:02:49Res 6, and ROR. So like Clark said, it's very um mixmatched in the area.

2:02:57Here is a location map of our site in relation to the nearest rural character area, which is about a mile to the east at its closest point.

2:03:09And then here's a brief overview. Tammy already went through this, but our request, I'm not sure if Clark said this, but we did remove one of the variation requests, the T-type turnaround requests. We decided to remove that, so we're now only requesting two variations: the relief for continuation of existing street pattern and waiver of substandard road improvement.

2:03:33Here's our master plan. Um, so you can see we have our main access points to the north and to the south. There's a collector spine road going through the center of the property, and then we have um a secondary connection going to Eden to the west, and then uh we do have an option for an emergency connection to the north to that. um Lake Marinette, uh Mobile Home Park, that that's a privately maintained roadway system, so um it will likely only be used for emergency

2:04:03access if at all.

2:04:07Here um are examples. This is copied from our master plan and these are examples of housing types that we're proposing. Single family detached, attached villas and townhomes, and the multifamily detached and attached product that's your build for rent that you're seeing now.

2:04:26This is the non-binding concept plan that we submitted with the MPUD. So this isn't our binding master plan, but it's a way to kind of see how the development will occur. And I I added the red.

2:04:42the red um lines here of where we're gonna we've proposed a fence along the buffer to these residential areas that kind of came up when we were at Planning Commission. Um we added that as a condition so you'll see that um I think it's condition number nine.

2:05:03Madam Chairman M Can you go back one slide real quick? Yeah. You could you'll probably help me. Yeah, thanks so much. Um Lake What is I say Lake Mar I think it was

2:05:13Lake Marinette.

2:05:14Lake Marinette. Okay. So that's pretty dense there. What is what is that?

2:05:20Um it's zoned RMH and it's a m it's a manufactured home parking.

2:05:25Okay. So that's all built out now.

2:05:27Correct. Yes.

2:05:28So that's pretty a pretty dense. I could probably go to the aerial if you want.

2:05:34Yeah, yeah. So they're pretty so that we're lucky we're talking like they're thirty foot lots, twenty foot lots, thirty.

2:05:45So this is a conclusion slide. We're I believe that we're consistent with um Res three future land use category, the north market area, the land development code were compatible with the surrounding land use pattern while improving the value in the community and staff does recommend approval.

2:06:02So I guess I'll hand it to Seth Weightman.

2:06:08Yeah. Good evening. Steve Henry, Linkson Associate 502-3 West Floral, Tampa, 33607. We conducted the timing and phasing and access management analysis for the project. And the analysis included evaluation of Little Road, Denton Avenue, and Houston Avenue. Avenue. And based on the results of that analysis, all the roadway segments within the study area operate at the acceptable VC ratio, the volume to capacity ratio established in the code. We also looked at the project

2:06:38access, and even though some of them weren't warranted, we've agreed to build left and right turn lanes on both Houston Avenue and on Denton Avenue at the project accesses for those. And one of the issues that had come up previously was the growth rate that's utilizing the analysis. In fact, we looked at the historical growth rates based on DOT counts in the area, and the growth is virtually zero based on the historical counts along U.S. 19 and other roads in the area. But we used 2 percent in our analysis.

2:07:09But knowing that there is another project to the east, we actually looked at that, added that to our background traffic. So we use a 2 percent growth rate, plus, then we added the ground. Added in that additional project there to the east, and the roadways will still operate at acceptable VC ratio with our project with a growth rate of 2% plus the additional project to the east. So that concludes my presentation unless you've got any questions.

2:07:33Madam Clerk. Did you calculate in the industrial park, hundred and sixty acre industrial park that abuts the property as well to the other side of the road.

2:07:42We we no we we we looked at a two percent growth rate. So we we we don't typically when we do these

2:07:48good. So you haven't looked at what the industrial park may do.

2:07:51Correct.

2:07:51I understand there may be a couple of other projects in the area. I haven't seen them yet, but I've heard that they are out there. Have you looked at any other projects that may be out there and do you know if there's any others?

2:08:00I do not know of specifically of any other projects and and that's why we use we look at historical growth rates and that's why we use at least a minimum of a two percent growth rate to account for those other projects that may come in that are are out there. But you can't we can't add every single project in the county in every analysis. So that's why what we try to do is is even go above and beyond what historically we've seen in the area.

2:08:23Do you look at whether other effects may be on other roads, such as kitten trail in front of the school that goes on that's jam packed right now?

2:08:30Th well we we we have looked at that not specifically in our analysis. We did not look at that, but we have looked at that. Yeah, part of that is not necessarily a capacity. One, it's two miles from our project, so not even within our study area. Our impact on that road would be de minimis, but we did look at that knowing that that was a concern. And part of it is that you've got that roadway and you've got the access to the school, you've got that that uh Kitten Trail in New York, all with no turn lanes on any driveway, on any roadway. So it's an

2:09:00operational issue more so than to necessarily a capacity issue i in in just looking at the at what's happening out there. But that is you know a a and I suspect during the school hours it may be a congested area because there are no turn lanes. But from an impact from this project, it would be de minimis. It's two miles away. And so we don't we we did not look at that because of that reason.

2:09:21So the schools are packed right now. There's going to be extra capacity to go into the schools. You know how many trips are going to go into the for the students? Let me be pushed for Clark. So with all the new students that can be going to that complex. And at quarter seven in the morning 'til seven twenty, seven thirty almost, it's jam packed now. Well, you don't I'm not through talking.

2:09:42Okay, sorry.

2:09:43So even though you're saying it's a de minimis to it, with all the extra trips that are gonna go to that school, even as it goes capacity, even if it's not from all your development, but the next one to it. They're gonna be at full capacity now. And having driven through the school with no basic traffic going in there right now, their limitations are very l very constrained as far as what they can do for improvements. Um With all that said, even though you've done a traffic study, you really can't account for what's gonna happen. any further in that area from Kitten

2:10:14Trail to Hudson to New York Cav. With your study.

2:10:20We did not specifically look at kitten trail in in our study. No, we did not. Uh so Thanks.

2:10:28Any other clerk you want to speak about that? I'm like,

2:10:33I think I think Steve answered the the basic question. Let me just uh I know you're gonna get comments from your neighbors. And I know, I mean, let's just get this out on uh in the open. Everybody knows that I think what started the concern of some of our neighbors is after we filed this project and we're proceeding along for a while, another project. Over by Kitten Trail was filed. That's a couple of, I think it's twice as large as this project. And I think the neighbors are worried about what's the collective impact on the area. And so I'm not going

2:11:03to run from that. And I think we have a couple of answers that may allay some of the concerns of our neighbors. Let me just tell you what we've done in the last little bit, because we're not unmindful of the of the needs of our neighbors. I want to run through how this stuff evolved. First thing we did was uh and I'm I'm trusting that that was not paused while Steve was answering that because I don't think we've taken up that much time. Yeah. No. Uh okay. So uh number one, as I said, we limited the access to Lake Marionette to

2:11:33emergency access only. So the HOA maintains the roads there. We are not gonna be putting trips through that uh It's zoned mobile home, it's a manufactured housing community, and I want those folks to know that. Uh secondly, just to be clear, we're building a one-mile-long unloaded, meaning there are no units on it, spine road through our site that will connect Denton to Houston. So all of the people in the area will be able to use that collector

2:12:04road system, which we're building at our cost. We're done. Next, uh we are have agreed in the conditions that Tammy passed out, there were two new conditions we had. One is we're going to build an eight-foot wide multi-use path across the entirety of our project, which is a half mile wide. Uh you heard about the fences and extra landscaping we're doing uh with the existing residential that are to our areas. Uh but the biggest thing, and this is what the board needs to understand,

2:12:34is we're proposing that we are going to segregate all of the mobilities from fees from this project, which by my estimation is $6.7 million, because I think the neighbors. are worried about how these two projects work together. We are proposing to segregate all those fees and only use them for transportation, pedestrian or bicycle improvements from the area from Little Road to Coyote. and from Houston down to Hudson.

2:13:05And that is a large sum of money that I'm quite certain that any of the operational issues down on Kitten in that area having to do with school access and stuff can be solved. But there are no uh Capacity deficiencies, nor are there site access deficiencies for our project at this time. This is just an extra thing that we're doing so that the neighbors can see that if our project builds out, we're contributing

2:13:36to the area and making sure that the area will have the improvements it needs. to to be served both for the existing development and and state of affairs and our development. Um I did want to point out again, just to reiterate, that Anna said we we are hereby uh removing the alt standard request for the T turnaround also. Um and just going back to the previous condition about the mobility fees, this allows the county and the board and its discretion To

2:14:06determine where those funds are spent. So the Board would be identifying, we've done this on a couple of projects now, done on Newport Corners, did it on Two Rivers. The board can determine over time whether that money is all needed to be spent there and how it should be sent spent. And I think that's the right way to do it because right now we're hearing concerns, and we know we're going to have videos from neighbors showing kitten trails an issue, but it may be that the construction of a couple of turn lanes will resolve that issue, and we also

2:14:36will have money to build a lot of other pedestrians. and improvements out there that may be make the situation safer for the kids going to school and resolve any operational issues.

2:14:49Yes, sir.

2:14:52On condition thirty-seven

2:14:54Where are you getting these conditions?

2:14:55It says uh a hundred hundred percent of any M PD's single family residential lots shall be forty foot wide. If such lots are reloaded. In addition, any rear loaded lots with alleys should qualify for the trish traditional neighborhood design. Rate in the county's mobility fee schedule without needing to meet TND code requirements. Flexibility should be given for any alley loaded or rear loaded development. What does that do to the amount of money you think we're going to get at $6.7 million?

2:15:29Are we even planning on doing that? Well,

2:15:32get the red loading.

2:15:37Commissioner, this this is a condition we're not even doing this. This is a condition that I think has to do with the changes in the MPUD uh conditions if you do T and D, if you're doing rear loaded lots, this doesn't even apply. So that's it's not gonna affect it. We're not building

2:15:53real load.

2:15:53Yeah, we're not we're not building any rear loaded or T and D stuff. I think this is a stock condition now from that memo that we did on forty. foot lots. That's all this is. We're not we're not doing that. And I I am here by confirming on the record we're not doing TND, we're not doing real loaded, so it will not affect the amount of mobility generated. But

2:16:13can I ask you a question on that though? Uh you do have a mixture of lot sizes?

2:16:18We do

2:16:18require that.

2:16:19We do.

2:16:19We're

2:16:19gonna have more fifties than forties. Okay.

2:16:22I mean it. Just for staff, uh that'll do like Commissioner Oakley.

2:16:28Anytime we're doing an M P I think we should have a site plan. I will tell you I'm very disappointed to just see a site plan presented to us now. When even as we talked about, I asked for a site plan if we had any and nobody had one.

2:16:41I apologize, Commissioner. That's been we've it's always in our filing. I I thought you had access. It's in a cella. It shouldn't be a surprise that we have to submit a non-binding concept plan with every MPUD. So I apologize if that wasn't in your package. I mean

2:16:56I didn't submit that.

2:16:57It

2:16:57was

2:16:58at the time of filing.

2:17:06I did um see this road that is the spine road.

2:17:10Right.

2:17:11And I did ask you if there was possibility of swinging the bottom of that over to the west in hopes that one day um if the county were so inclined to help because I think that's what it would take it would connect to the other Hicks. But there's some property in the way that's not their responsibility. Um

2:17:32you're talking about to align it with Higgs code.

2:17:34Yeah, I think that would be

2:17:37we we did look at it and that there's a couple of big problems there. We we looked at it at uh at some detail and and Brian Surak with Clearview Land Design is here. The issue is we have to build turn lanes to get into our project and they're about 500 uh feet long on the eastbound left that has to go into the project. And there's simply not right-of-way on Denton Avenue. There's uh you'd have to acquire, I think it was thirty-two feet of right-of-way from five or six different property owners.

2:18:07And we have no way of knowing that that's possible in any kind of timely basis to build our only access point into the project from the south. It just we we and there are other issues. Number one, I mean it blows up a lot of our, you know, yield uh because it's swinging the road through the center of the development, but that's really not the issue. The issue is more we don't have any way to build it. It just doesn't work. The reason just for everyone's benefit, the reason the

2:18:38access road is where it is now is it aligns with the entrance to the RV park with the 300 and some odd units to our south, and we have very long turn lanes into there just to ensure safety and that we're not stopping traffic on Denton. Or creating a f a problem with the the through condition. So that's why.

2:19:00Mm.

2:19:03I'm sure. Yeah.

2:19:06When I look at the connection, we'll talk about Eden Road in a minute. Um Why we're getting a waiver for not bringing that road up to standards, I'm not sure. Uh I think should be a connection there as well, at least an emergency connection set up. But as far as that that road and Hicks Road. Lining right up there. Even if you kept your maintenance Yeah, because you you left turn lanes and and right left ins and left right outs.

2:19:30Over in that other intersection, that still is gonna be an important I think way for if some I'm gonna heading north south. That connection. It looks like you've got a wetland area that's there. But if you just have if it looks like it's just one parcel to me that you would need below that wetland area to actually take that road in and let that hook over and then connect from there. So as far as you're losing a ton of units or whatever, I'm not I I I don't see where you actually use a lot. Maybe n not for the primary entrance, but just for other people to get out another way.

2:19:59Well I mean I'm I'm going off of what our engineers told us about the loss of units there. But uh again, the bigger issue and and I've got uh an exhibit, I don't know, I guess we could put it on the Elmo. Do you all can y'all put something out?

2:20:23This is just something this isn't the most ornate graphic we've ever gotten, but it I just want to show you where the issue is. You have to bount have an eastbound left into the site. And when it gets it up you'll see that there is just not enough right away and I can come have our uh our uh engineer Brian explain why that is, but there's simply not enough right away to build any turn lanes right now. So we I mean we can't not have turn lanes into a

2:20:54development with eight hundred units that's off of a collector road. That doesn't work.

2:20:59What if it was just a right turn out?

2:21:02No you you have to have for I mean I'll Steve, could you explain the reason for the turn lanes? Because I I'm not sure that

2:21:20But not making it but it think it might not look like Commissioner, let me maybe we c I hate to confuse things. Were you were you suggesting that we have Maybe you can Here, give them so I can put that up.

2:21:38We want to see if we're talking about a street connection to our street system or whether you're talking about bringing an unloaded collector road and Hicks Road up there. Are you talking about Build it right there, Commissioner?

2:21:54Can you see it on the Elmo?

2:21:58Excuse me? The dark one is right by the pond, yes. So yeah, so so taking it from that yeah, connecting from there. If

2:22:05we we could br build that as a local street to have that connection, we c that we can do.

2:22:10Okay.

2:22:10Okay? That's not a problem. The problem is if it's the main entryway with the turn lanes. That that was the only point I was trying to make.

2:22:17See that's the one I was like.

2:22:18This we I'm sorry.

2:22:19I'm

2:22:19sorry, I misunderstood. I'm

2:22:20trying to figure out a lot of things.

2:22:21That we can do and I'll agree to do that.

2:22:24Or or not quite that far.

2:22:25It was it's the turn lanes that were the issue if it was gonna be an collector road.

2:22:30Okay. So and l now let's go to the condition on Eden Road. Yeah, let me stay at the road. Talk about that and what's what's going on the

2:22:36exact

2:22:36thing.

2:22:37Let me explain that. I think this has been a major misunderstanding. We do not want access to Eden Road. We never have. Eden Rowden is a mile or mile and a half long dirt road, and it's got a bunch of ranchettes on it with larger lots. And I really don't believe those people want our people. driving, you know, having eight hundred units going through their area. All we agreed to with staff is we're gonna stabilize a roadway from there through our site. So if any of those people want to drive through our roadway

2:23:07system to get to our new spine road, to get uh out to Houston or Denton, they may do so. But we do not want access to that road. We would never build a new eight hundred unit community and market off of that road. That was never our intent. And I mean keep in mind. We're adjacent to two county collector roads and we're building the connection there.

2:23:27Right. So Eden Eden Rose goes goes out to nineteen. Is the L D C by condition Making you would they make you bring that road up to standard to go

2:23:36out? Absolutely not.

2:23:40We we didn't propose a connection. Again, this was just an accommodation to staff to allow those folks into our site. We we weren't even proposing to have that when we started.

2:23:51Okay. I'll let you continue when the wheel.

2:23:53That's all I was going to say for now, Commissioner. I I am happy to answer any other questions, but I think I really want to hear from our neighbors and answer some of their questions.

2:24:01Well let me ask a question that was asked to me by one of the neighbors as well. As far as with all the wetlands in the area that's making you design it the way you are. Right. Uh condition thirty three talks about abation of special concern. Um

2:24:15I don't think we've had done a sp basin of special concern up there. And it says if the basin of special concern will comply Um if it's there that you you'd have to appl uh comply to it. Looking at so much wetland there, would you comply to the meeting the basement of special concern requirements anyway?

2:24:34I I don't think we can do that Commissioner Yecause what that makes you do is build Uh you know, floodplain and but mainly uh drainage facilities that are significantly more than are even required. I I really need to ask Brian Sirak to address that. Where's Brian?

2:24:52Brian's engineer of record. I am ninety nine percent sure we are not in a basin of special concern. But um

2:24:57I'm sure you're not. It's in the commission

2:24:59though. First I

2:24:59want

2:25:00him to address that, then he can explain why we can't do it.

2:25:04Good afternoon. Brian Surak with Clearview Land Design. I have been sworn. The project is not in a mapped basin of special con uh range basin of special concern of Pasco County. However, we are aware that there are some um flooding issues um uh in the area during hurricanes and that kind of thing. So uh although we are not um designing to the specific Um

2:25:35Drange based on special concern criteria. uh our current design allows no discharge off site. Right.

2:25:43If I was to make a motion at a later time with the Board of County Commissioners to have this looked at as basin of special concern and it comes back to that, it is basin of s a closed basin of special concern, either either open or closed, would you be willing to comply to Whatever requirements that are put.

2:26:00Um I I don't know how that exactly works, but uh yeah, like I said, I mean we We're not meeting the letter of every single requirement of that code, but we're meeting probably ninety percent of it with our current design.

2:26:14Can we do the tool not design the system so that it assumes zero discharge? During the the regular events. Yes. Uh uh I was just Commissioner, maybe maybe this is a way of getting at what you want. There's a completely different storm event you have and a bunch of assumptions you have to make on a basin of special concern. And I think I don't think we can do that if it doesn't exist for a couple of reasons, but not the least of which is the district's not gonna review

2:26:44it on that basis, and I don't think the county can because it doesn't apply. So they're not gonna make you or even understand why you're submitting that. But I think what Mr. Surak said is we can design it under the regular assumptions, but design it to assume that there is zero discharge from the site, which I think may accomplish your goal.

2:27:04From which storm event though? There's like I think the stronger events in this basin of special concern that that aren't with the regular code for zero discharge, which you have bound to anyone.

2:27:24Well, and again, if I had them study to it, was my first question. Would you then be willing to comply

2:27:38I I mean he's saying he's gonna design a pine p a pond system on site that will ensure that there's zero discharge. But if we go

2:27:46based upon what storm event though? I think the the storm events get stronger In the basin of special concern.

2:27:53It's a completely different storm event. But but the what I'm trying to say is you would be creating a gigantic pond system that's not needed. It's I I you're I don't think you can mix them there. It's apples and it's a lot of things.

2:28:07So so what I'm saying is if they s if staff studied it to To find out if it was a basin of a special basin of basin of special concern, then would you comply with what they thought?

2:28:17If if the Board adopts the resolution saying it's a a basin of special concern, we will absolutely follow that.

2:28:24Even if it's after the fact, because it may take some time to study it as well.

2:28:27I mean

2:28:31I would not be okay with that.

2:28:33We've never done that to anybody.

2:28:35Yeah.

2:28:35Yeah. That that wouldn't be I don't know.

2:28:38Well if the if the basement of special concern was declared before they got their site plans in and it was an an appropriate appropriate timing that it it was that we adopted it if we're Mm-hmm. They were in the ground. I mean not they were in the ground, but

2:28:56the board if the board goes through the process and the board adopts a resolution finding that we are in a basin of special concern before the time we submit for site plan approval, we will have to follow it. So I hope I hope that maybe that gets at what you're speaking about, Commissioner. Commissioner. I think that's as good as we can do. Okay. I I I'll

2:29:16let's hear from the public. Thank you. Okay. Um if you have we have a sign-up

2:29:20sheet here. Can we do want me to go in order? Yes. All right, I have Cindy Allmond, followed by Linda Bell. Followed by Debbie. Um I don't know how to pronounce the last name, but it starts with I think with an S.

2:29:35C H and have you have you been sworn? Yes, I have. My name is Cindy Ullman, [address removed]. I have a a package that I would like to present to the uh commissioners while I do my speak.

2:29:52Second. All in favor?

2:29:54Aye. Good afternoon,

2:29:56Madam

2:29:56Chairman Commissioner. Thank you for allowing extra time to voice our concerns over.

2:30:00Before you before you start your extra time. You um need to have people present who are with who who you're speaking for. Can we have proof that you have a group with you? I have a group of people. Can you can you raise your hands please if you're

2:30:15But how many more are speaking? Because it's a question. Well, if

2:30:17you're raising your hand, then she's speaking for you. Okay? All right, thank you.

2:30:22Okay, so now can I start? Yeah.

2:30:23Yeah.

2:30:23Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you for allowing extra time to voice our concerns over the Denton Place project. I have put together for your convenience a packet that highlights our concerns. In there you will find facts, pictures, and articles. Our main concern is our wetlands and the inhabitants that live there. As you know, there are wetlands on the property where D.R. Horton plans to develop. This particular wetland is part of the Hammock Creek watershed. Our watersheds are extremely important, not only for wildlife that call it home, but to our survival as well. The wetlands

2:30:54help to filter the water that eventually finds its way to the Floridian aquifer where we get our drinking water from and so do our neighbors in Central Florida like Pinellas County. As of March 2019, a study is underway to see what impact new developments will have on our watershed, like runoff, which includes storms, fluids from vehicles, pesticides, and fertilizers. This study is to be conducted throughout our county, and I commend this board for having the foresight to have this study done. I know studies like these are not cheap nor quick. That is

2:31:24why the board should think twice before allowing any development to start if there are wetlands involved, especially since the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council explained that Pasco has a surplus in homes, but does not need to but does need to Concentrate on industry. The Watershed Report is scheduled to be finished November of 2025. This report will aid the Board in making wise decisions going forward to help protect our environment and our precious water source. Our wetlands are home to many species, including the sandhill

2:31:54crane, various hawks, snakes, red fox coyotes, river otters, and the gopher turtle. Some of these residents are on the threatened species list. The gopher tortoise is one of the oldest living species on earth. They are also a keystone species, meaning they have an outsized impact on their environment due to the size of their burrows. Those burrels can be used by up to 300 other species, including rare species like the eastern indigo snake, the gopher frog, Florida mouse, and

2:32:24hundreds of rodents and invertebrates. Many of these species would die if not for the gopher tortoise, and many are on the endangered and threatened list. Yes, the gopher tortoise can be relocated, but there is a chance of them turning. Trying to return and be killed by increased traffic. Or they may be carrying an upper respiratory tract disease, which is highly contagious to other tortoises. And just because they have been relocated, their roommates have not, and they can be buried alive in the burrows as construction starts or killed by cars

2:32:54as they try to escape the equipment coming in to destroy their homes. Our second major concern is traffic. Some of you may know Houston Avenue is our only north-south turn due to the redesign of mediums. The main entrance of our subdivision can only make a north turn and then a U-turn to go south. On US 19, that is not always a fun option to take. So most people that want to go south will travel to H Houston Avenue to make that south turn. Unfortunately, Houston Avenue sees a lot of truck traffic because of the

2:33:24landfill at the east end of the road. There is anywhere from seventy to seventy five trucks a day traveling Houston, and they are not only dump trucks, but they're also eighteen wheelers. If anyone has ever been behind an eighteen wheeler, you have experience them waiting until all lanes of traffic are free before they make their turns. Now I have been behind a couple of eighteen wheelers and a couple of dump trucks waiting my turn to cross US nineteen and the wait time can be ten, fifteen minutes or more, because there is no signal at the corner of US nineteen

2:33:55and Houston Avenue. Now I know that Lynx and Associates did timing and phasing analysis and access management analysis for this project. And unfortunately the time they considered peak time does not catch all of the workers in our neighborhood. I have seen people leave from four AM on and come home after six PM. The analysis considered peak times from seven to nine a.m. and four to six P.M. The analysis did not take into account the high truck volume, the long wait time to

2:34:25go south on US nineteen, nor the other new subdivisions that are being planned on Denton Avenue and Kitten Trail. that cut through to head north to avoid traffic breakups on Denton Avenue. The report did indicate that traffic light would be required at Houston Avenue in US nineteen in the future. According to the plans, Denton Place project has a street that will be across from Meridian Boulevard. Our residents are concerned about how the developer plans to handle the traffic. that wants to cross over Houston Avenue and use Meridian Boulevard

2:34:55to make their way north. Meridian is a private road that starts right after Peter Avenue. It is a single-lane substandard road and is known to flood, and with flooding comes potholes that residents have to fix. It will be extremely unfair to the residents to have to take on the extra burden to keep repairing their portion of the road because a new subdivision was added to the neighborhood. If the developer is going to allow access to Meridian Boulevard, then they should pay. and standardize the private sections of Meridian and not assess the residents. Another

2:35:25concern we have is flooding that occurs during heavy rains. The developer has planned to put two retention ponds on the side of the road on Houston Avenue, but the land is higher than the rest of the road going west, and the gravity starts to work, water will run downhill, and flooding that occurs at Houston and Oliver Street will be worse than it is now. The mohoba the mobile home that sits on the corner always seems to have a soggy yard during heavy rain. If the development has to raise the land for any reason, you just created

2:35:55a bowl effect for the mobile home community. The same situation happened when Heritage Pines completed their build-out and is now flooding Philly Lane, which has yet to be addressed. There's also flooding that happens at Houston Avenue and Otto Lane. And on the private section of Meridian Boulevard.

2:36:12Ma'am, um how much longer do you have?

2:36:14Uh just a little bit longer.

2:36:16Like uh one more minute, okay?

2:36:18Um uh you gave me ten minutes. I thought we gave you five. No, you gave me ten minutes.

2:36:24There are concerns over the volume of traffic that are going to encounter Hudson or Hudson Avenue, Meridian, Jetton Avenue, Kitten Trail, Little Road, and Hudson Avenue. The traffic around the school is now a nightmare with cars dropping off, picking up, and school buses trying to make their rounds. This concern should be addressed prior to any new developments. That will be added to the congestion. All developments going in s within a certain mile radius need to be taken into account as one large development and not individuals to gain a real insight to the

2:36:55problems they may create. It is better to handle them before than after the residents start sitting in traffic for a longer commute time. Shortages are another issue to consider before development starts to take place. We are already seeing shortages of personnel from nurses and doctors, firefighters, EMSs to teachers and bus drivers and more. Just because there is an influx of people moving to Florida does not mean that they will be working. When they get here. Many be may be retirees that don't plan to work again. There are also fire station shortages. In the

2:37:25meeting on May of 2022, this was brought up with the comment that the developments are going in faster than a single fire station can be built. I was told by a woman that her 90-year-old mother, along with her 90-year-old, Neighbor was turned away from a hurricane shelter because it was full during Irma. That always seems to be a problem that an area will expand before proper infrastructure is in place. For example, roads, signals, drainages, water, sewer, electrical grids, schools, fire station, police stations, hospital, hurricane shelters, etcetera.

2:37:55We ask that you look closely at what is needed before you approve of trees. and land being destroyed to make a new development that an area cannot support at this time. One final concern is that the developer themselves. I have done the research on Dr. Horton and have found that they are a very large company that operates throughout the United States. There are multiple violations against this company in many states, including Florida. The violations range from environmental wet downs to poor construction. There is even a

2:38:25case in South Carolina that has gone from a state case to a federal case. So you see we have real concerns with the developer and our pressure wetlands. So up to you. our elected officials to decide if this development really needs to move forward or if it needs to be put on hold until more facts are produced and the watershed report is finished. And I have one final comment, and this is directed to Attorney Hobby. When we were at the planning and rezoning meeting that was held in August of 2022, we

2:38:55made a comment that insulted myself and my neighbors. He said that our neighborhood was in d in need of major repair. Well, with all due respect, sir, we do not feel that way. We have people that have lived in the neighborhood twenty, thirty, forty, and fifty years. We like our neighborhood just the way it is. Peaceful and quiet and pretty much crime free. We don't want to hear traffic noise, sirens, or have perfect lawns. We enjoy the psalms of nature's, the songs of roosters, goats, horses, and geese. So

2:39:26for you to make your comment about our neighborhoods was wrong because we love our neighborhood. We don't make comments about your neighborhood. We just choose not to live in it. So with that being said, we expect an apology. Thank you, Madam Chair and Commissioners, for hearing our concerns. We appreciate your time, your consideration on this development, and hope that all is said here today will help you make the right decision, not only for the people of Hudson, but the animals and the environment as well. Thank you.

2:39:54Good we no. You cannot clap you cannot clap from from out there, so thank you very much. Did you raise your hand? Um

2:40:02No, I called her name next, Ms. Belly. Linda Bell.

2:40:06Okay,

2:40:06but

2:40:06some of those people raised their hands. Ms. Bell, didn't you

2:40:09didn't you raise

2:40:09your

2:40:10hands?

2:40:10Because I thought I saw you raise your hand as well.

2:40:12Ms. Aman time?

2:40:16Did you not raise your hand earlier? Yeah. So that's I don't understand. Yeah, this is I know it got messed up. I'm sorry. Then we're gonna fix this for all future commissioners. Um we said that if that sh she got a lot more time than we ever give uh non um applicants because she was speaking for the group out there.

2:40:38It was a little confusing. Can I speak?

2:40:42Not if you raised your hand, which Sorry.

2:40:45Very short. But you raised your hand. She was speaking for you.

2:40:48Yes. She she got a lot of extra time to talk to you. I guess

2:40:51I didn't understand. Oh my God. You said was she speaking for everybody, yes.

2:40:56Yeah. Because she she got w normally we would give five minutes for a group and we gave her ten. I'll tell you what, we'll give you one and a half.

2:41:07I mean the the way hang on for second, ma'am. The way that was explained is confusing. So I I I will tell you she's been working so hard, I mean, to put this brochure together for her to speak. She's not speaking for people not even just here. That could make it. Yeah.

2:41:23No, you I know she did, but basically

2:41:28that you gave ten minutes to. With all the time she spent, she's speaking for more than just people in the audience today too as well.

2:41:37only speak in this kind of situation, unless you're president of an HOA. Those are rules. But But you only need five people to speak. Not not necessarily. Okay, go uh please go, but

2:41:49Okay, I'll be quick. Thank you. My name is Linda Bell. I'm a retired uh Pasco County school teacher and I've lived in the neighborhood for fifty years. And um did you give your address? Oh, [address removed]. Okay. And you've been sworn. And you have been sworn. Thank you. And what I'm going to do is I'm I'm going to write a very short, uh not right, but Russell Means is a Lakota uh Native American, and I'm just going to say a few words that he did that I feel is pertinent to what's happening. And

2:42:19it said, if all the four-legged creatures were taken from the earth. Earth there would be no life. If all the winged creatures were taken from the earth, there would be no life. If all our relatives who crawl and swim and live within the earth were taken away, there could be no life. But if all the human beings were taken away, life on earth would flourish. That's how insignificant we are. Now let's leave a little blue in the sky and a little green on the ground. But I it's just we I've lived

2:42:50here fifty years and it just seems like Pasco County can't be satisfied till all the trees are gone. But and I'm not sure why we think we have the right to destroy more animal habitats. And I appreciate Ms. Starkey what you said about one third of Pasco County being uh reserved. But what does that mean to the animals that are constantly being uh disrupted and destroyed. So that's all I I have to say.

2:43:18Thank you. Thank you very

2:43:20much.

2:43:21No clapping, I'm sorry. It's not allowed. Okay. Um is there anyone online that wishes to speak? Oh,

2:43:27there's a lot

2:43:28more people. I know but a lot of them raise their hand for Okay, come on up. If you didn't raise your hands, you can see that. This could be a real mess.

2:43:40I guess I could I can look at the YouTube and go backwards. So we'll do that. Okay.

2:43:53Tammy Sliger, the owner and founder of Kidia Branch. My address is [address removed].

2:44:01And then it's I know you put your hand up,

2:44:02but just ma'am and I was sworn in in the beginning.

2:44:04Thank you. It's an audio recording, so we can't see

2:44:06you on any audio.

2:44:09So listening to the concerns and especially in the beginning, um Of This whole thing that started which everybody knows, this all started with the Denton and Mattis project. Well. Being a resident on Mattis and Denton And Having a therapy branch for special needs children, adults and veterans. We see firsthand the impact of

2:44:39The driving, the school buses, the busyness of a two-lane highway. You have large trucks that are coming through. You have school buses that are stopping. You have a low income housing development right at the corner of Little Road in Denton. You have children. that are literally standing on the side of that road waiting for a school bus. I

2:45:09just had enough, you hit. Buy a vehicle. waiting for his school bus. Okay, seven years old.

2:45:21he says safety on his entrance for where his Yeah. My mother lives in Three Lakes, wherever you are. And I hope that he's serious about that. Because see we see first hand The firefighter truck's coming. the balls of fire going into the field and the property on Mattis Road. We also are part of a really bad road, which is Mattis Road. where

2:45:51people are coming in and they're turning, it's a Lime Rock Road. and I have to worry about a handicapped vehicle being able to get down that dirt road and not bottom out their handicapped vehicle. So Yeah. Is it great to see a flourishing Pasco? Yes it is. But We have to consider the rural area that we have My ranch. Is part of horses?

2:46:24Pigs, ducks, chickens, and donkeys, and you know what they do? They change the life of a handicapped child. They help a veteran with PTSD. And so when you start taking away The things that we utilize to change the lives of the people in Pasco County. Now you're doing a disservice. I know the economics and I know the blooming and the flourishing of a county. But y we still have

2:46:54to serve the people well. That's important. And I think that that needs to be heard, and I think that that needs to be at the forefronts of votes.

2:47:06And that's all that I have for you today. Until the next meeting. Thank you very much. Thank you.

2:47:11Thank you for the great work you do. You do a phenomenal job.

2:47:19Okay, next. Uh oh do you want to go go by well if unless they've waited waited

2:47:25their minutes. Madam Chairman, I would recommend that you go through the sign-up, the list that they've signed up and take three take them at three minutes apiece based on what's happened.

2:47:37Madam Starkey.

2:47:38Mm uh one second. We we really need to fix this procedure for all all commissioners on on how we're gonna do this going forward because there was confusion And upstairs and other places on how we could allow times. Sorry.

2:47:53Next time they give them a list of who they're speaking for.

2:47:56That's

2:47:56what your rules

2:47:56require require.

2:47:58Okay. May I request

2:47:59five minutes? Can I

2:47:59read

2:47:59the remote?

2:48:02Yeah, three minutes. Thank you.

2:48:04Good afternoon. My name is Tracy Lowe. I reside in Hudson, Florida. I was sworn in. I'm here to ask for a continuance for the Dent in Place MPUD rezoning request as it violates land code review considerations for zoning changes. As this proposed change will adversely affect living conditions in the immediate and surrounding neighborhoods. Our community has three high-density developments proposed within our rural community: the DD LLC Townhomes, the Dent Place MPUD, and the Dent Avenue MPUD. Each development's impact

2:48:34is looked at on an individual basis. I ask you to take this opportunity to pause and continue this public hearing in order to consider the cumulative impact of the three developments in their 2,586 dwellings. I respectfully ask you to consider the following when considering a continuance or a denial. Number one, our current infrastructure is presently failing and was built for AR and AC zoning, not high density developments. This is evidenced by the roadway failures around Hudson school campuses.

2:49:05I recently emailed the entire commission a YouTube link to drone footage of this problem. Adding three more high density developments zone for this campus will be catastrophic. Number two, the timing and phasing studies done for these developments are not accurate. They are based on a two percent annual growth. According to the U.S. Census, Pasco County In Pasco County, there's a 3.9% growth from April 2020 to July 2021. Despite an underestimation of this

2:49:35growth, the timing and phasing study shows that just one of the three proposed developments increases our community's AM traffic by 129% and PM traffic by 120%. Now I ask you, what does the cumulative effect of all All three of these developments due to our traffic. Number three. There are currently no sidewalks, crosswalks, street lights for children walking to school. Per Mr. Goodfield from Pasco County Schools, the children in both the D D townhomes and the Denton Avenue Project neighborhood

2:50:05will be walking to school. And if the Denton Avenue project provides connection from Denton to Kitten as proposed, a walking route would possibly be updated for those st students living in Denton Place. What's this mean? Children in all three developments will be walking to school along Kinton Trail and Hicks Road in the dark, through drainage ditches with no streetlights or sidewalks or crosswalks at times of peak traffic volume. I ask you, shouldn't the safety of our children be Paramount? Number four, the county

2:50:35does not own enough right away for sidewalks in our area. And what they do own is currently being used for drainage. Mr. Hobby himself said today, we do not own enough right away. How long will this take? Years? Lastly, the school impact analysis for these developments individually are not concerning. However, cumulatively, Capacit the capacities of all three developments exceed the 2025 Pasco County Comprehensive Plans level service standards. In addition, these

2:51:05analysis do not acknowledge that Hudson has now had has a Cambridge program encouraging enrollment from outside of the zoning. Thank you.

2:51:17Okay.

2:51:17Uh excuse me, you'll be removed from the room. You cannot do that. Thank you. Next speaker. Did you um did you raise your hand to allow the speaker? I

2:51:29did.

2:51:30Okay, so I think you've had your Yeah. I think you wielded your opportunity to

2:51:35not me. I'm sorry sorry, ma'am. I didn't. Okay. You know, you've been rude. I don't know why you're so rude. You give all these people all all the time, but when we get up here, you're like Let's go. Can you explain the rules?

2:51:50Madam Chairman, I advised you to take the take give them three minutes apiece.

2:51:55Okay. All right, go ahead. Name and address for the record, please.

2:51:59Debbie Schumacher, [address removed]. When I moved here from H to Hudson was a beautiful Place, hunting a fishing paradise. I can remember driving down the road. And seeing rows and rows of orange trees. Beautiful. It was beautiful. Okay? The trees were blossomed. You could smell the blossoms for miles. But now, can you find an orange

2:52:29tree anywhere here? The wildlife was many, but And the fishing was great. But now the rivers and the gulfs of the are polluted and the sea life is dying off. And so are animals.

2:52:45When will w when will Pasco County commissioners and planners stop and say no more? We tear down the wildlife habitats. We build more homes, businesses and schools. Why? Don't we have enough now?

2:53:02It's because we love is it because of love of money? Is money more important than the our beautiful community? Do you want d do you want destruction more than you want

2:53:17Excuse me, huh?

2:53:19Okay. Take a deep breath.

2:53:21Dust do you want to destroy what beauty we have left in Hudson? Do we want to see growth or more homes or businesses? What about repairing and having it and repairin'? What we have damaged Let's clean up the community and have That we have now together. Do something to help it, not to hurt it, not to tear it down. Each day another

2:53:52area of wildlife is being photo. And in the name of progress Really?

2:54:01Keep doing what you're doing and you'll destroy what little we have left. I live in a very quiet neighborhood. Where the neighbors are few and far between. Where you can breathe. It's a very peaceful area. No noise. No air pollution, no crime, no drugs. Can you find places like that today? We don't need eight hundred and four family homes. We need to protect our wildlife here

2:54:31in the community. This area that we want to build on. Is home to many animals. Developers start to build up.

2:54:44instead of out with land becoming scarce. It is sometimes hard to imagine that even Cody Island is gone, wiped off the map during the developers of Hudson Beach estates upon man made Lands. In exchange for Co Cody Island residents were Hudson Beach. We need to be now closed to now closed for parts of the year. Ma'am with high Yeah, uh with a high

2:55:15Excuse me.

2:55:17Um but we're not sure if we got your address for the record. We think we got

2:55:20[address removed].

2:55:22Thank you. Okay, next.

2:55:28Hello, my name is Andrea Clark, and I'm the founder and president of Their Happy Therapy Services and Ohana Preparatory Skilled Day program at Ohana Farms. I'm also a speech language pathologist, and I appreciate you letting me speak.

2:55:41Can you give us your address too, please?

2:55:42That's next. Yeah. Our program owns and utilizes land located at 15901 Coyote Road, as well as 11820 Denton Avenue, both Hudson.

2:55:54Ma'am, have you been sworn? I have, yes. Thank you, go ahead. Thank you. Um the two properties occupy can take you as thirty acres at the southwest corner of Denton Avenue and Coyote Road. Our practice currently serves approximately 500 special needs children per week, and we hold a health care clinic exemption license issued by the Florida Department of Health. We also conduct a skilled day program where children attend services four days per week. We're located on this large farm property because we specialize in the use of hippotherapy, which is the use of equine movement as a component

2:56:24of their medical treatment plans. On this land, we house nine horses, two miniature horses, and three goats as part of our treatment. For which we serve our children. Since beginning our work at this location, we've realized quite a transformation. um of the land that we occupy and have had to maintain a very careful balance between accommodating the needs of our children as well as the needs of the property on which we serve our children. Over the course of the seven years that we've occupied this property, we've watched our very gently traversed roads wash away. We've seen more

2:56:54and more native animals seek refuge on our open land space and seeking new homes from the current slow building that's taken place in the surrounding in the development of the surrounding areas of our property. We've been fortunate to be able to meet the impact that our current land use has had on our property with consistent soil and ground restoration and nourishment projects. And we've had seven years to observe these processes and carefully formulate plans to balance the effects

2:57:21as well as the effects of the building around our property. Moreover, we've actually gone through zoning and permitting to construct more building and cover more of our property and concrete in order to serve more of the children who so critically need our services. In this process, we had a traffic study completed that did not indicate that we would need to add a traffic light in order to accommodate our building project. In all honesty, the many housing developments that are hoping to join our community would be great for our organization

2:57:52organization's growth and finances. The concrete roads, fiber internet internet, city water and sewage that would come with all of this development would make life a lot easier for us, in fact. However, we already have more children and families in our existing community than we're able to serve. We have many children on our facilities waiting list. We've had to turn several families away from enrollment in our program this year because we simply do not have the current physical capacity to adequately meet the needs of all the children who we would

2:58:22like to serve. Furthermore, we've experienced great difficulties in staffing our program to responsibly serve the children as well as to care for the animals who who help to serve our children. For these reasons and many other reasons, it's simply neither was uh reasonable nor responsible to continue to outgrow our area beyond what's already possible for us as a community to currently manage. As an organization, we've made the decision to significantly downsize and

2:58:52reduce the scope of our building projects, as it is far more important that we take the time to responsibly use our land so that we may serve for many years to c our children for many years to come. This longevity r this longevity relies on the health and well-being of our horses, which in turn relies on the health and well-being of the land on which we work.

2:59:11Thank you very much.

2:59:12In closing, we also hope to teach our children the great value in Malama Ayena.

2:59:16Thank you for

2:59:17Hawaiian for caring for our land.

2:59:18Thank you, and thank you for what you do. Okay, next.

2:59:23Um we have Martha Rose.

2:59:26Are you Martha? No. Okay, we we need Martha next. Unless she raised her hand and is willing to waive her time. Okay. Um

2:59:41And um who's who's after Martha?

2:59:44Um we have William Humphries

2:59:46following

2:59:46uh Miss Rose.

2:59:48So Mr. Humphries, if you'd line up behind Miss Rose.

2:59:52Mm-hmm. My request is that you give D

2:59:54mail. You need to uh give your name and address for the record. And you have three minutes after that. Thank you.

2:59:59Martha Rose? My address is [address removed].

3:00:06Thank you. And Miss Rose, you've been sworn. Yeah, she spoke earlier. I know, but I have to have it for the record. Okay, thank you.

3:00:12I read the code. It says that when the when you deny a request that they have six months to before they can apply again. So I'm requesting denial. Not approval with conditions. If you approve the zoning change, my question is, what do you hope to have have for the benefit of the current residents? Not the ones that you hope are coming in, not anything else, but the current ones that pay your taxes, that elect you. What do you hope to do to benefit us?

3:00:45Also in the plan, my question is this plan that we are following was made 30 years ago. That would have been 18, 1982.

3:00:55Where is uh agriculture and animal land end that plan for here, for this day and age. Is there anything in Pasco County? That you have designed for what we have here.

3:01:13Well this is this is your time

3:01:15this is your time to speak to us for three minutes.

3:01:17I'm speaking to you, I'm asking your gut questions. I'm ask you don't have to answer me, but I want you to think on this. I'm a citizen. I've been here since 1995. I love this area and I want you to think about what we're thinking about. about, not what Tampa's thinking about, not what S Wesley Chapel's thinking about necessarily, but about Hudson and us. We're different. We're not even Starkey Park, which is how do you like Trinity? Do you love all that

3:01:48traffic? Do you love all that stuff? We don't necessarily want that. Okay. Um Along my um Maddis Road. which is because I live on kitten. Kitten tease into Denton. And the east road. And so as that little complex is getting busier and busier and busier

3:02:11Then their s kitten goes all the way down to Hicks. It floods. Hicks floods.

3:02:20Oh ma'am, you still had you still had one more minute. I thought that

3:02:23buzz

3:02:23was no you you have another.

3:02:27That's your one minute warning. Well madam Chairman, I might yield my time. Um along Mattis Road, I stopped and interviewed people along that road. Took some pictures. Yes, they cut down on the pine trees already, so that's not a concern. Um there's between five and twenty acres is what the people have. The code says that the things that come beside this area should replicate it. So That would mean instead of eight hundred

3:02:57houses You would have uh thirty.

3:03:03residents. And if you let's see where's my math. I hope it's good. A third of the residents on three hundred acres. Com compliant to what we have already. There's about thirty residences. Or fifteen. Or if you do five acres, it's sixty.

3:03:25Just follow the code.

3:03:27There's your there's your buzzer. Thank you. Okay, um who's up after him?

3:03:31Um following Mr. Humphreys is uh Tammy and Doug Sliger.

3:03:38Good afternoon.

3:03:38Good afternoon, Madam Chair. The commissioners, my name is William Humphreys, uh [address removed]. And I'm here to uh speak in support of this application because I'm uh acting at this point in time. as the development director for the group of individuals that own the land between 154 acres uh that borders on Bolton, uh Hicks, and New York Avenue that will become uh

3:04:09current in in pursuit of our efforts with the county and industrial park.

3:04:14Nice.

3:04:15And what we have been talking to the county about Із working in close cooperation with providing the requisite right-of-way land needed to to create the Hicks Road extension. So that the county through the use of The mobility fees that would be generated from this project, as well as the one further to the east on Denton Avenue. Will allow for the county to have the funding. To put in the extension for Hicks

3:04:45Road and improve it from Denton Highway all the way down to at least New York Avenue. This will help relieve dramatically the traffic problems that have been addressed by a lot of the residents here today. and permit the county to put in not only the a a transportation corridor, but also provide for due to the width of the uh right of way that will be provided For uh pedestrian as well as bicycle traffic in that area. It

3:05:16will also allow for the improvement of Bolton Avenue and New York Avenue and for a traffic signal at the intersection of Hicks and New York Avenue as part of our overall plan that we want to submit to the county at a later date. So we see a real benefit. and allowing this project to move forward because The The industrial park that we're going to create is going to generate a lot of new jobs. And these people are going to need a place to live, and they're going to need to be moving into

3:05:46these neighborhoods. And the neighborhoods don't have the capability right now to support what we're going to be bringing to this part of the county. So we see a real benefit, a real s uh synergy, and certainly a uh a harmony between With the residential development that is being proposed here with uh uh d dent uh Denton Place, as well as the one further to the east of a similar nature. We will be right in the middle and and with the improvements to the roads and to the uh to

3:06:16the area, we see real harmony with all of it to coming together. So we're very much in support of it, especially because we can be the

3:06:28Thank you. Thank you very much. Madam Chairman Mariano And I am very supportive of this industrial park bill. I am very glad you are doing it. Uh wanna help you and I appreciate your cooperation because you need it from us to get Hicks Road built. But do you have any substantial facts that you're saying the employment we have in the area can't support your industrial development?

3:06:46Yes. Uh the development itself, the area desperately needs to have employment. Because that area has been a little bit more than a little bit. in need of it for a long time. As you know, this part of the county does not have a an existing large industrial park opportunity. We're gonna provide that.

3:07:03That's not what I'm asking though. I'm saying with the people that live in this area Okay. And I've talked to experts on the area. What they say is what we need is industrial parks to support the people in this area. That is the same thing. I don't need more pe all right. So I don't need more people just to support your park. I've got enough people around.

3:07:20Right.

3:07:20Thank you.

3:07:21Right. Well thank you.

3:07:24All right. So

3:07:26now that was Yeah. All right. I

3:07:29believe Miss Tammy had spoken previously. She's the one with Kitty Up Ranch. So my next person I have is Amy Madeira. Followed by Cesar Madeira. I did sign it. That's okay, we're following the list though. We got a long list.

3:07:42I'm sorry, I signed it I was a little bit more.

3:07:43No, I'm just it's a long list. I'm getting through the names. Okay, I'll sit down and get it for long.

3:07:46Yeah, sorry. Okay, is Amy here? Oh no, Amy's not here.

3:07:51Amy Madeira and Caesar Madeira.

3:07:53Okay,

3:07:53Okay then. Don't go

3:07:54too far.

3:07:55Let's see. Then I have um Ken Howard.

3:07:59Followed by Joan Herbert.

3:08:08Hi, I'm Ken Howard. I live on [address removed]. Uh my main concerns are I have seen no proposals.

3:08:19Yeah. Thank you.

3:08:20Okay. And uh is about the sewer and water I've seen no proposals on. And now many of us around the area uh on Kitten Trail have had my well gone deeper five years ago because of the watershed d dropping. My neighbor just last year had to go twenty feet deeper with her well. Now I know a lot of people in the area going through the same thing. Now everybody knows the water don't come out of the sky except for when it rains, but they have to hit the watershed to get well water for your eight hundred homes. And

3:08:51proposed sixteen hundred homes on Detton Avenue project. We We'll be losing water. I mean it's uh Nobody's gonna pay for me to hook up their county order because it's not available. Now about as far as the sewer goes, and that's definitely see no proposal for sewer on it. I'm sure or I hope at least they would hook the county sewer, which is a water reclamation site uh on both sides north and south of Denton Avenue. Now

3:09:22in 2008 they had a major spill at this site in which Didn't have residents north of Denton Avenue had to be supplied with county water by a truck. Is this gonna be able to uh accommodate what these people are proposing in homes. This is my conclusion. Thank you.

3:09:42Thank you. Okay, thanks.

3:09:43Joan Herbert. Followed by Elizabeth Fielder.

3:09:52I just wanted to make you aware of some things that maybe you didn't know. We'll need your name and address again.

3:09:59[address removed].

3:10:03And you've been been sworn? Pardon? You've been sworn? You have to say if you've been sworn or not on the record. Oh I got your hand if you've been sworn. Okay. Yes? Yeah. Okay, thank you. Go ahead.

3:10:13Um I live off of Little Pea Court, which is right there near Oakwood. And if you any of you have ever gone down Oakwood, it is not even a ninety degree turn, it's like a almost a one eighty turn. So any traffic coming down Kitten trail from uh Denton. Um there's quite a few Near misses and stuff, people go scattering because you can't really make that turn without going into the southbound lane. And I got a small car. Uh we have three core pre um bends.

3:10:44We just uh recently lost another motorcycle rider over thought the bend and ended up hitting a tree, dying. Uh on the w the second bend is that one that's people don't realize that it's more than again more than a 90 degree angle almost and and I guess they can't widen it because of the property. You gotta buy people's property. We have a lot of problems there, a lot of power lines go down constantly. And then there is a um my when you come out of Little Pea Court I actually have to to make a

3:11:14right hand turn gotta edge out almost into the road, which forces the people coming south. to go it under the lane a little bit because I can't see past that property to make my right hand turn. So there's a lot of traffic issues that happen. And the speed limit. The cops are there all the time hiding, trying to catch the speeders that come through, especially on the Friday nights, the guys go drinking and then are coming home and And and things get really crazy on there that no one really ever talks about. So that's the traffic. On the water

3:11:44end of it, that uh trailer park. um that is on Denton was pumping their water. during rainy season. They had an agreement, I guess with the hay farmer, whoever's behind there. I don't know the area that well, but I know that they got caught Pumping the water, which then came down and flooded out a lot of the homes on Kitten Trail and and like Little Peak Court. So then we found out that right now they're flushing the fire hydrants somewhere where y'all have built in off

3:12:14of Denton, and they're flushing on a regular basis. And two weeks after you flush the hydrant, Need pond, which nobody talks about, which is in that hundred-acre pine, hasn't been maintained properly. So the overgrowth gets in there. So the pond's not absorbing all the water that it's supposed to take. And so two weeks after they flush the fire hydrants, that pond goes up. And nobody is m doing this. Angela and the Water Department, I've I've called out, you know, I I got my property in 2006 and didn't realize I bought

3:12:45wetland. And I wouldn't have I'm from Dunedin. My granddaddy was a developer. You don't buy wetlands unless you buy a lot of it and you know what you're doing. No one told me and I went down an ass with witnesses. So I dug a huge 60 by 20 Looks like a sinkhole when it's the dry season. But it doesn't take a rain, it doesn't take a storm, it doesn't take the a hurricane. It's when it rains around our area, the water seeks the lower area. And

3:13:15I've already talked to the engineer who oversees Pasco County. He told me Florida's looking into Pasco County because of this water. flooding that never flooded before. Thank you very much. And I just ask you to look at that because where they do their pond, if they they're doing the ponds too high. Thank you very much. Well

3:13:31swoop mud will regulate all those things. Okay, next.

3:13:35Elizabeth Fielder, followed by Susan Applegate.

3:13:40Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Elizabeth Fielder. I live at [address removed]. I've been sworn in. I'm opposed to the rezoning of the P119 Denton Place project in Hudson from agricultural to a master plan unit development. This area is adjacent to rural neighborhood. The proposed over 800 home building project is not compatible with the preservation of the natural environment, long-term agricultural and large lot low density rural uses. As per

3:14:10the Pasco County 2025 Comprehensive Plan, specifically Chapter 2 on future land use, here are four important elements for the Board to consider. Number one, Pasco County shall limit the proliferation of a large lot sprawl development pattern over large expanses of land by evaluating the plan amendments. My I I want you to consider another option as a development as a conservation subdivision. Number two, protection of rural areas and rural transition areas.

3:14:41To implement and enforce policies and programs designed to preserve and reinforce the positive qualities of the rural lifestyle and protect rural communities and agricultural areas. We can limit public potable water and wastewater lines from being extended into the rural service area. None of the exceptions of this prohibition are met by this project. Number three, as far as a conservation subdivision, they shall be designed with a minimum of 50% of the gross acreage, shall be designated

3:15:11as a conservation open space, excluding individual lots. Number four. I compel the Board to consider the standards of review for a rural neighborhood. Protect from sensory intrusions that inhibit the long-term viability, such as noise and light pollution, physical access, odor, or disruptions which may have detrimental effect on the welfare and safety of the community. My recommendations are as follows. Provide a gradual transition

3:15:41of intensities between different land usage. Designate New Development under the Conservation Subdivision. standard where a minimum of fifty percent of the gross acreage is designated as conservation. Implement and enforce a five-year expiration on developer building permits. Ensure the Commission has good oversight of all phases of the project to prevent non-compliance with county standards. Do not grant density or environmental credits to a developer for wetland areas for new development.

3:16:12And if a property is sold, the new owner must recommission geological and environmental impact studies. In closing, any new development shall reflect the character of the surrounding area, which is an agricultural neighborhood. I'm asking the board to preserve and protect our rural rural community. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Next is

3:16:35Susan Applegate.

3:16:36And

3:16:36then who's after Susan? Like that.

3:16:39Pam and I can't see the See the name, it's just it starts with a W. And then I have Gary. Strength.

3:16:48So so Pam and Gary will line up, please.

3:16:52Well

3:16:52there's a pan.

3:16:55My name is Susan Applegate. My address is [address removed]. I'm speaking on behalf of many people in the area of the said property parcel. We really want to save the woods. It's old Florida growth. First and foremost, it is possibly an estuary where the coastal waters transition from the land to the Gulf of Mexico. Secondly, we need the trees to breathe. Thirdly, it is a natural habitat for wildlife, as I've seen it myself. and there are

3:17:25some endangered species out there that live there, such as gopher turtles. the Wood Stork, the Florida Scrub J. The red Uh Cockadeed Woodpecker. And also the Florida bog frog. They're they're amazing. By destroying the natural resources for mankind, animals, birds, and reptiles, et cetera, it would be detrimental and unnecessary for the surrounding areas. There would be more pollution, traffic. Less resources.

3:17:56This n land needs to be preserved. I move to have you receive and file. I've got some petitions that I have.

3:18:04Second.

3:18:04All in favor?

3:18:05Aye.

3:18:05Aye. Okay, thank you. That's all I got to say. Thank you very much. Thank you very kindly.

3:18:13Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome.

3:18:22Hi, my name is Wayne Jackson. I'm Wayne w My address is [address removed]. And ha were you sworn in? Yes. Okay, thank you. I m I moved here in ninety two. Um I've lived in the same home. Me too. And um I am a former land developer. We're Hillsborough County. I quit it when I got here 'cause I don't want to foul this up. I saw look at Hillsborough County. It's swollen. They

3:18:53have no area to grow. And it wasn't done wisely, as you know. Five out of six of the of the uh uh uh county commissioners went to prison. It's true. I'm not saying d no, that's not derogatory. What bothers me about the thing that I'm looking at is it's like when they ask not to have to put in um

3:19:15Oh god. Not a t a a turnaround, whatever you want to call uh uh called the sex.

3:19:25That shouldn't happen. There's a reason why there's golden sacks. I don't care how good of a damn designer you are. There's mistakes. And I I've I've I've been a victim of those mistakes and I went back and I fixed them. But I had the places to do that. Now I live on Meridian Boulevard that was paid for by us. By the time it gets down to the where area you're talking about is nine feet wide. But the all the way up to the About a thousand feet. And it just it doesn't

3:19:56Right now we have the trucks coming through dumping well I mean these are big trucks. The woman was right. Um somebody needs to stop 'em. I don't know how. Anyway, I think this needs more consideration. I I thank you all for your time. And uh I stopped developing. That's all I can tell you. Good luck.

3:20:16Okay, next. I have um Gary Stift

3:20:22and then Carrie Holmes. Last but not least. I'm I'm retired.

3:20:27I don't write that much anymore. Um I am here mainly uh I know that the wetlands

3:20:34for the record.

3:20:34Gary Holmes. I have been sworn. My address is [address removed].

3:20:42You're good to go.

3:20:44Um I don't know. My main concern with the whole deal, I've retired from the county, thirty three years in the county at Pine Ellis. First of all, don't pioneell us, Pasco. You guys are being a big doo doo. But um where if you look at these two from Kitten Trail to Denton, from Denton to Houston. There is one common denominator. It comes all the way through. And that denominator comes off on Houston Avenue, straight down Meridian, which is a private street. Uh

3:21:16If if there is access to Houston Avenue on that end, on the north end

3:21:23US nineteen bypass. and everybody that d talk about the children and the animals and the traffic, eight hundred houses times even one car in a house, which but that's impossible. That's eight hundred cars. Double it for a family of two, that's sixteen hundred cars. There's no street light, there's no traffic light at Houston but For God's sake, those people going north, they will go from Kitten Trail down all the way down Meridian and to nineteen just to a sidestep

3:21:53US nineteen. I wouldn't blame 'em either. Uh, but something needs to be a little bit different so it's not so easy to go from south to north at a high rate through residential whether it's a eight hundred. or whether it's our neighborhood or over a kitten trail, something that It's not gonna work if it goes straight through and p and young drivers think that they can get off a nineteen and make it through. That's that's the most thing just somehow or another stop

3:22:24it from dead ending Or connect into Houston. There's a lot of traffic there during the day, a lot of heavy trucks. And I can't even get those heavy trucks to do thirty miles an hour. They were way by when you got a Jake Break, that's more than thirty miles an hour. And that jake breaking isn't gonna stop if somebody comes out not paying attention. So I I got fifty-seven seconds. I just don't don't pineel us, Pasco. We're doing good. You guys are doing good. Just slow down. We

3:22:54are we are doing very good up there. We do we don't have any service from the the county for roads or maintenance or anything. Just Just be careful how far you push this because it's gonna be a thoroughfare and people are gonna get hurt. And it's just detrimental to the whole end of the county. The end of the county is like a piece of heaven. Don't ruin it. It's a piece of heaven. And that's all I got to say. Thank you very much. And I'm sorry I've been impatient back there. I know you've seen me, but I'm just a little wound up. No access

3:23:24to Houston and everything will be very safe. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your time.

3:23:31Okay. That is there anyone there's someone

3:23:34on WebEx.

3:23:35Oh there's one more person that wants to speak.

3:23:37Yep, um we have uh Tanya but I was sworn. G um the the one that's on WebEx has to go to a chemo. Uh

3:23:45okay we need to let the person that's online speak.

3:23:48Okay.

3:23:51So uh Tanya Sauler? Has she been elevated? Okay, you you are elevated if you could speak your name, address and state that you have been sworn?

3:24:09Why is she there twice?

3:24:11Yeah one's muted. She has two devices.

3:24:13She probably is using a computer and a cell phone maybe. You never know. We are unable to hear you.

3:24:22However, I mu mute bolter by s devices.

3:24:26It looks like one of your devices is muted.

3:24:31Can we tell which device is muted?

3:24:34The one on the left.

3:24:39Can you tell? The second device is unmuted. She should be able to speak.

3:24:46Ms. Sauler, um one of your devices is showing unmuted. But we are unable to hear you.

3:24:58All right. We'll we'll come to you and if she has to it we'll try and come back to her, but if she has to go, she has to go.

3:25:04Okay.

3:25:04Thank you.

3:25:06She there's one that dropped up

3:25:08yep. She left the call.

3:25:10Okay.

3:25:11Hi, my name is Lori O'Malley and I've lived in uh Pasco County. What's

3:25:15your address, please?

3:25:16[address removed]. And were

3:25:19you sworn in? Yes. Yes, ma'am.

3:25:21Thank you. Uh I've lived in Pasco County my whole life. My parents came here in the fifties and I lived on Kitten Trail for forty some years. They got a lot of big guns over here to plead their case. We're just the people who've lived there and loved it all this time. The roads are horrific. If you come there during the morning, I think uh Mr. Marino may be aware when the schools are in session. for a half mile or to a mile uh any road surrounding you're not going anywhere. And

3:25:52the deputies have been out there trying to help and people disregard it. And um of course we all moved there because of land, our children, our animals, peace and quiet, and now we're the ones being pushed out. All these things are concerns that you're all aware of. The roads are so bad. And it's just not fair that more consideration, of course a county has to thrive. Of course a county has to grow. That's a given. But as some of

3:26:22the people have said, a little more consideration would be nice and um Nobody's gonna pay the price these people have paid for this land and not get what they want. It's just a shame that it can't be a little more condensed and a little more consideration for the people who've been there and loved it all these years. And I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you very much.

3:26:45Okay. Um did our online caller leave?

3:26:49She did.

3:26:50Okay, would

3:26:50oh she's on?

3:26:52She she's currently online.

3:26:53Okay. Okay, we'll try her again.

3:26:58All right.

3:27:01Ms. Sauler, you have been elevated.

3:27:06I see thee.

3:27:08We are unable to hear you. Are you there? There you are. Wonderful. If you could state your name, address and whether or not you've been sworn.

3:27:18Okay. I have been torn. I'm Tanya Sellier, [address removed]. And I'm sure you guys know me by now, uh, as I have been to many. Board meetings.

3:27:40You're you're using up your time. Keep keep going.

3:27:44Okay. Um When you guys develop in the area without the watershed study already being done. Then you guys

3:27:57approve whatever is there. Um We do not know. How further development will Is that

3:28:11Have our area. I have been there many times in order to

3:28:19Make sure you guys stop the flooding in our area.

3:28:24And I have a winner.

3:28:33this isn't going through um

3:28:38Without And Real word reef are from The internet. I am currently up in my house and Um I'm gonna stay in Florida but You guys really need to look at the destruction of Our

3:29:01Wildlife area and How many times I have said that.

3:29:08our um you building around our

3:29:14area is

3:29:18Ruining. Everything that I We have built for.

3:29:28You don't look at the study that you have requested. You got that um Florida Department of Environmental Protection's recommendations. And you don't look at It the overall

3:29:48Environmental impact study which you guys ordered

3:29:57Uh uh so Before you build anything in our area. My You think about That study is not gonna be done to tw twenty twenty five.

3:30:13Y you really think that Nobody cares about this area and you're building and building and building without a the watershed study being done. Why did you even order it?

3:30:29Why did you

3:30:31Okay. All right. Um so that concludes our public comment. And I think I saw the applicant coming back up.

3:30:47Madam Chairman before the applicant comes up, um We had a YouTube video sent to us. Did everybody take a look at it?

3:30:53I I did. Um Um I just wanna state that we have a five fifteen budget hearing that's advertised. So If this continues on to five fifteen, we will stop. And take up um P one 2-0 for our budget and then we will come back to this if we're still going. So sorry, just be aware.

3:31:19I will say we never should have scheduled a long hearing the same day at that we have our 515 meeting that That is we have to stay on time for that. I will

3:31:30I'll try to make this brief, Commissioner. Uh I I just want to say at the get-go, I think I misspoke at the Planning Commission. I apologize to our neighbors to the southeast in the Indian Oaks Hills. What I was trying to say was their roads are in need of assistance. I don't think any of the folks who live there would deny that their dirt roads. need to be regraded, they're not in great shape. I wasn't implying any didn't mean to imply anything about anyone's homes, property, or anything like that. So I apologize to the extent I

3:32:00misspoke at Planning Commission and I'm sorry about that. Again, I I've heard a great many concerns from our neighbors today that are talking about what happens with both of these projects. What's going to happen a half mile away, a mile and a half away, two miles away? What happens on Kitten Trail, again, two point seven five miles away from here? And what I'm trying to get the neighbors to understand is with the language we're offering today. There is going to be created a large sum of money, which my estimate

3:32:30is about six point seven million dollars that the county will have access to to use to construct any number of Sidewalk. crosswalk, bicycle, multi use path, Right-of-way acquisition. Uh Commissioner Mariano, I know that the the acquisition of the right-of-way that that is going to be needed for that last stretch of Hicks is very important so we can get that industrial guy in there because it's not just on his site, we may have to get some from the neighbor to align the road. This

3:33:01funding is going to provide the money for that. If for some reason Denton needed to be four-laned in a stretch, there may even be enough money to four-lane a stretcher. I'm just saying for our neighbors' concern and understanding. I I suspect that there's a series of site access improvements in this area that are going to make the situation a lot better for our neighbors, not only in the current conditions. but through the build out of the area. Next thing I was gonna say there was discussions

3:33:31about the school board, school capacity We get a school board capacity letter from the school board and it said that there are not any issues with capacity. taking this project into account and the way standard way that they do it. If the other project is added into uh the area, what I'm told by the school board is they still would need a school site from us and they had several options. The school board owns a 40-acre site about a mile and a half south of the

3:34:01existing Hudson campus. They may build an all-new school there. They may rezone our students to the adjacent Cruise Lake district, because that's on our northern boundary. Our middle school students may not even go to Hudson Middle. So there's a lot of options and the school board is not concerned about the issues in a way that they don't find feel that they can find solutions. for everyone's benefit. We are not seeking to go beyond the comp plan designation

3:34:31that we have to follow for our site. And keep in mind, almost all of the property adjacent to our site is denser and planned for denser uses than ours is. Ours is the lowest, a res three. Two of our sites adjacent to us are in mobile home parks at very dense or R V parks at very dense uh uses and they're at res six or res nine. So they're substantially I mean the Res Nine is three times the density of this site. Commissioner,

3:35:03we need investment in this area and this project Is going to over the long haul provide the funding that you need to make sure that this area, the larger area, Functions correctly, it's not functioning well now as a result of this development. This is how you get the money to make the fixes. to get the kids safely to school down on Kitten Trail two point five to two point seven five miles from this site. Those are not anything that developers are

3:35:33ever asked to do that far off, but we've come up with a creative solution that gives the county the control and the county the funds it needs to take care of the area. That's why you need to approve this. Now With regard to the language and the the street connection we talked about before, my client has not ever looked at the geotech for that area, and we're a little bit concerned about the geotech and some of the topographical uh changes in there. So I was emailing David in the last

3:36:03few minutes, and David, I don't have my laptop open. Could you read in this was the condition that he and I agreed we would would add about the street connection.

3:36:12So this has also been emailed to the County Attorney, but it's The applicant developer shall construct a public local roadway connection to the project's internal roadway network. which will ultimately provide a connection to the North South Collector Road. From the intersection of Hicks Road Denton Avenue. Unless construction of the roadway is determined by the county at the time of PSP PDP approval, to not be feasible based on geological or other site conditions. Such local roadway connections shall be constructed or bonded in conjunction

3:36:42with the first record plat approval for the portion of the project adjacent to Denton Avenue. No turn lanes will be required in connection with such local roadway connection.

3:36:52Thank you, David. And and for the record, the applicant would accept that condition. So again, Commissioner and I'll just one last thing. You know, there were questions about water and sewer in the area, effect on wells. Um just so everyone knows, we have not only water and sewer, but we have reclaimed right out in front of the site on Denton. So we're going to be connecting right in front of the site. And that's one of the reasons why the board should be approving this. You want the growth to go in the area where the county's

3:37:22already put the facilities. And in this case the facilities are there and the and actually the comp plan requires a connection anytime there's development in res three with twenty five units or more. So you need this to happen to make this whole homogeneous plan that the counties created and the comp plan work. Um And the last thing I would I would say other than you know I would appreciate your support is that you all know there are tons of environmental rules that we have to follow both at the county, state, and

3:37:52federal level. We will follow all of those. We are not going to be impacting, you know, uh species that we not should not be impacting without following the appropriate rules. I'm happy to answer any final questions you may have.

3:38:05Does anybody have any questions for the applicant?

3:38:08Commissioner

3:38:08Oriano.

3:38:09Yeah, I've got a question. So Clark, are you gonna get rid of the cul-de-sac?

3:38:12Oh yeah, I I formally withdraw the alt standard for the type T turnaround.

3:38:17Okay. Um I'm gonna make a few statements, but if you guys got questions. Go ahead. Oh we're right.

3:38:24It's a un it's an unusual area. I d I drove the area when I was uh isolating from COVID and my family wouldn't let me be around them. So I d actually did my first drive down Kitten Trail and some of those roads. It was absolutely beautiful. But there's some places that are not so beautiful. Just a interesting area.

3:38:45Right. So in the area and and Clark I appreciate your working hard to try to and you you acknowledge we do have struggles out there with the infrastructure. So he acknowledges that. Um you know Mr. Humphrey's talking about his industrial park coming in, it needs Hicks Road. Um

3:39:02Way back when Commissioner Starkey know you're with with the board at the time, we had the issue where S a couple of girls were not in school when they should have been down in Severn Springs area. And

3:39:15then you can do it.

3:39:16No, I think it was down in Seven Springs, right the the road the sidewalk we had done. Um From the From that accident there we ended up pushing forward. We had all the right-of-way in place. We got that sidewalk done real fast. made a lot safer for the kids in that area. Hicks wrote as you remember. We also had an accident there too and we lost a child. And we push for that road to get done. That row we didn't have the right of way. That took probably seven, eight years. to get it fully done.

3:39:46And I had meetings at Hudson High School with the stud with the the people that own land land up and down, trying to speed up the process, which we did. And a lot of those just didn't go through the attorney process and gave us the land we needed or sold us the land we needed. And it sped up the process. It still took a little bit of a little bit of a little over seven years. When when you look at the traffic right here, this is a kitten. Kitten trail coming in. to Cobra Way. And I went through Out here from quarter to seven in the morning.

3:40:18in the morning. So all that time, this is backed up all the way. The other side, Kitten Trail in the morning, backs up to about 715 in in that range. into the development. I drove through it yesterday just to be see what was going on. I drove through about four o'clock in the afternoon, maybe four fifteen. Drove through it, all there was was going to elementary school. There wasn't any traffic on the roadway, but just for the elementary school in the whole lot it was backed up and it was It w it was a a lot to go through. I don't know if

3:40:48the school board can fix what they've done. Now if they go back to A mile. before they do the bus instead of two miles, maybe that's gonna help a lot. But right now the situation that's there is absolutely brutal. And whether you are on this section right here or down in Hudson Avenue at Cobraway, or why walked walk that whole thing too? It's all backed up. Even if we fix Hicks Road, Made that connection from uh Denton Avenue down through which would give us the final connection from Bolton down through. you're still gonna

3:41:18get this. Now what scares me is if you look on Kitten Trail They had given up and had gone through a big thing about putting drainage in place. to s f you know, follow the road. We repave the road. I the only person I saw coming through that roadway was one child was coming up from kitten trail on a bike. And he had to ride in the detention area at an angle to try to get to school. And that wasn't even it wasn't even wet then. But just there's no there's no sidewalks, there's no roadway. I think it's so dangerous that everybody

3:41:48realizes I can't go walk to school. I've got to get a ride there because I'm gonna get hit. And we just heard about the accident. So As much as I I appreciate Clark, you know you're a you're a great professional. You present everything, you you listen, you go back to your people, and I appreciate all that. But I just don't know if you're not sure if you're between drainage areas, the lack of sidewalks, the time it may take to get all the infrastructure improvements if it's the right time. Now, I have asked to have the uh to have Horton go work with the other developments coming in the area, put a master plan together,

3:42:18let's go figure out what to do for all the improvements to make it safer. Because what I don't want to see is a situation made number one, And Commissioner Starkey, we were just in Miami at the FAC conference, and we saw the traffic that was in the area. To go three miles, it took us forty-five minutes to go to dinner. I don't want to see this whole area burdened out for even a longer period of time than the Web to get now. But eight hundred more units in this area? With the other one coming down the street, Ed right now proposed sixteen hundred and I'm gonna work real hard to get that number down and get that industrial land back. to to to what it w what what

3:42:48its use was. I I just don't see how we can approve this at this point in time with the infrastructure we have in place.

3:42:55Commissioner Yeah can if may I respond? respond? Commissioner, the the issue that I I think we're having is We've presented Findings from experts concerning the status of the traffic and the site access improvements. And you're talking about areas that are a mile and a half, two miles outside of our area. related to site access or pedestrian improvements, that's not what we're required to do by the code.

3:43:26I mean you can't uh no one we don't ask developers to go look at making site access improvements two miles outside of a development. That's that's not what the code allows.

3:43:37No, and in a few it was many years ago when we used to do the biannual comprehensive plan amendments and we were out looking at an area over in Wesley Chapel, Dade City area. Um And we had a denial done on Handcart Road. From that hand cut road denial, it led to Commissioner Schrader, uh had a great idea. Let's do do a study of the whole area. That led to a whole study area that led to the V O P H. Which has been working out very well with everybody being involved to keep to get everything done. That's the type of study I think we probably need to do here. Because

3:44:07clearly if this goes through and this traffic gets worse, It's affecting everything else around it. Now you may not have studied down this area, and that's not maybe part of your jurisdiction, but the people that are going to come in here. Okay, with this high intense development compared to what's around it. take away the industrial uh c take away the seniors park that's up there. It's it's just not designed for children to be in this whole area.

3:44:30But but Commissioner, the the point I'm trying to make is we studied the roadways that we impact even with the other site. That's what Steve was saying. And you're assuming that the other development is even coming in. I mean that it's going to be approved. You could condition the other development. If there are roads that are bisecting the development, there may be a lot of people.

3:44:53you know, required at that time. I'm not trying to put the other project in a bad light, but that is an off site improvement. I don't I don't think you can do that under our code.

3:45:03So if we were if we were to design this road this if we design this area perfectly, we would have had Hicks Road connecting from your site right beside it. We'd have done a full intersection right there, brought that all the way down to State Road 52 and collect. That that's what we should be doing to the area. Not just saying because you can't access it and get that road to go north to Houston, we gotta move it down because you can't get the right of way for your development. What I'm saying to you is to properly design this area, Hicks Road should be built, it should be connected down through, so

3:45:34even the people at this development don't have to drive out on Denton Avenue. Cross over a little road, Back on New York Av. Down to Kitten Trail and a left.

3:45:45And I'm and I'm but you're saying we're we're saying we are having struggles outside of your development. I'm saying across the street from you, there should be a road and there should be a trail.

3:45:53And yours should be built as well. Commissioner, I'm not denying it. All I'm saying is the whole point of this funding mechanism is so that the county can do exactly what you are talking about and acquire the right-of-way if it is necessary, build the road or the site access improvements that are necessary for these purposes.

3:46:10That's the whole purpose. And I appreciate you doing that. I appreciate you seeing that. The problem is what's going to happen is if you do it as development. Development comes in and you've added all these things as development's coming in, you're increasing the traffic down there, you're retriefing the flow in there before the things get built. And what if the people don't want to give you the right of way and you've got to go through the process of trying to get the right-of-way. From the people who get a buy it.

3:46:40On the record earlier.

3:46:41Yeah.

3:46:42So I don't think the right-of-s gonna be an issue.

3:46:45So I um and I it's we've had so much discussion, I cannot remember what Steve said. I don't even know if he's still here. But when I and I've been looking at the map and whenever anyone puts gives me their address I go to it here. My iPad my iPad's about to die. Um But m my guess is except for the kids that

3:47:08Most people are gonna go out to nineteen and And had to work. Now if we get if we get that industrial area there, they don't have to drive very far, but I don't see people going to be a little bit more than a little bit Um for the major you know I don't see them going to the right. I see them going going west.

3:47:26If if they're go but I'm saying if they if they're going to school to drop off the kids, that's the way they gotta go.

3:47:31I'm okay, I'm looking at this map and and and we have this all over the county and that's a problem that the county and the school district have to address. But And that is They should have had turn lanes. Um I it looks like there's is there right-of-way on either side of this road here on Kitten? Is it is this kitten? Excuse me, not you guys. I I I see where the fen I see what and and it's now five fifteen. So I all right, so this I mean this this

3:48:01should have some better access into the school, but that's not on this developer. That's that's on us in the school district. Um we don't we didn't

3:48:13uh entrance into Trinity Oaks or The one in um Off of uh Ridge Road.

3:48:23I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'll

3:48:25five fifteen.

3:48:27Yeah, so I think we have we have three choices here. If if everybody is qu is quiet in the audience, I c I'll continue to talk. Um You have three choices now.

3:48:40the budget hearing, which we have to do at five fifteen. Right. You continue it or we'd come to a vote now. But we need to we have to go to our budget meeting, so if we need to bring this back afterwards we need to bring it back. We can't push the budget hearing off. We do we'd have to continue this afterwards. Or you continue this or you would do a vote now.

3:49:01I'd recommend you do the Budget hearing first and combat.

3:49:04All right.

3:49:06All right. We're gonna um pause this meeting. We'll come back in a few minutes. We're gonna do our budget hearing. I have a drop dead at five forty five, so if I have to leave, Commissioner Mariano is gonna be taking over.

3:49:18I I say today if everybody's willing to as we skip miscellaneous business. Yeah. Everybody does. I mean I d mine's not that important. Mine's belong to, but I agree. Okay. Okay.

3:49:30Okay.

3:49:35Do I have script for this? You should.

3:49:39So no guys don't leave. We're not done. Sorry. We have a firm five fifteen budget statute we have to do.

3:49:46I do not have the script for the five fifteen meeting. All right, you want to give it to me? Budget Bob?

3:49:53I don't know.

3:49:55What?

3:49:56I don't either.

3:49:57Yeah. None of us have it actually.

3:50:01Oh, wouldn't we have it?

3:50:06And this'll this will teach the our team to schedule a very, very long hearing on the same day as we have to do.

3:50:19Not sure whose idea that was.

3:50:22Hey we got a newbie sitting over there. Okay.

4:04:09Clark, we interrupted you, so sorry about that.

4:04:16You probably haven't been through one of those.

4:04:24I I guess you know I heard what Commissioner Mariano was gonna say. I guess the only point I was gonna make is this is a lot of money. There's gonna be a lot of money in school impact fee paid. And there's a lot of work we can do. School board's probably gonna end up with six or seven million dollars out of its school impact fee in this area. And there's a lot of things that we can do working together. And I think it's unfair at this point of this project When it's been res three all of this time, if the

4:04:54county had a different planning objective. We've been through We went through market areas. We went through a ton of workshops and the development of all of the market areas over a year and a half. And then we went into the harbor study and all this stuff. And if there needed to be a specific study for Hudson that was in addition or above and beyond that, it would have been nice for us to know. And like I said, I feel like we're doing the responsible thing here and we shouldn't overthink it, 'cause

4:05:25the you know, I don't know this market will be around for forever. This is a lot of money to do a lot of good in the area.

4:05:32Quick question. Um Mr. Hobby, it could be you, it could be one of the team members. Okay, under Res three, um how many homes would possibly be able to be on

4:05:47Prior zoning was It's A C It's only eighty C okay. Okay, AC Res three now AC was eighty Approximately. Right. Okay. That would not require more than likely, again this is probably a question for the team. Um Under the current zoning, I would assume it would not require all the additional stormwater improvements that are going in with this project. Well I need I don't see

4:06:17anybody there we go.

4:06:20Do you have

4:06:21those those mints? Are you referring to the existing zoning?

4:06:25Existing zoning, correct.

4:06:32I'm asking you ter Terry, I'll ask you this question. Again, under the current zoning, we're guesstimating eighty plus homes could be built. Yeah. Okay. That probably wouldn't I would assume it doesn't would not require the extens extensive stormwater

4:06:50And possibly mitigation that's being done with this project? Am I correct or incorrect? Yeah, but not the same

4:06:57for the

4:06:58proposed development. So we would

4:06:59in AC you wouldn't have much stormwater, if any, right? Okay.

4:07:06Yeah. Okay.

4:07:07You would be going already.

4:07:09Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. I just want to make sure I'm right.

4:07:11Uh again, Commissioner Weightman to answer your question in a little more detail. Again, we're building a mile-long spine road within the site that has no units running on it either. We call it unloaded in the business. That's providing a de facto connection point for all of the public. through this area at no expense to the we're not asking that be fee creditable or anything. We're building that at our expense. And I'm not saying this is the only time that's ever happened. But the point being if we just build out or leave it as is, somebody starts building 10 acre

4:07:42tracks, they're not going to have to build an unloaded road like that. They'll be building smaller local streets that will just connect to their lots. It wouldn't have to go all the way through like this.

4:07:54And one last thing, I know we w uh people have been waiting a long time for this.

4:08:02uh the um ingress egr ingress egress to the project. If the team could pull it up real quick. Not the emergency access. And I know the emergency access is probably s I would assume it's something that you didn't request. It was required by code.

4:08:17Code's required, that's right. Code required. You're talking about our spine road that's running up through the same. Let me let me get my Eyes on real quick. Yeah. Might go to the M P U D master plan that would be a little bit more. That would work out better. Yeah. Thank you.

4:08:32It's

4:08:32probably there you go.

4:08:34Yeah. Okay. Then was your end guessing I was okay.

4:08:39I can't what's that little pop-out? I can't tell what that is.

4:08:42That's what we were talking about with Commissioner Mariona where we agreed to bu b build a stabilized access into our site in case the neighbors want to drive through our site. It was a dirt dirt road there.

4:08:54How many units do we have a guesstimate of how many units are to the north in the um manufactured home um park?

4:09:01You know, I don't have it in front of me. I want to say it's I don't know if the representatives here. I want to say it's in the 150, 200 range, somewhere in that range. And then the R V park I think is three hundred and eight units to the south. So just between those two little pieces of property, that's about sixty, sixty-five percent of the total units in our project.

4:09:23And what's the acreage on okay, so we have um And the the wetlands uh we

4:09:30have three hundred and six I think it said three hundred and six acres gross and of which there's about fifty acres of upland I mean of wetlands and we're preserving like forty eight or so acres of upland. So

4:09:41approximately a hundred.

4:09:42A third

4:09:42of it.

4:09:43A third. About approximately a hundred total then? Or quote preserv including the wetlands?

4:09:48There's about uh about fifty total acres of wetlands.

4:09:51And then you're but you're also preserving you standing.

4:09:53Yeah, no, I'm saying of the fifty, we're preserving like forty-eight acres. I think if I'm getting the numbers right, is that right, Brian? That's generally in the ballpark. So we're preserving forty-seven, forty-eight acres of of the existing wetlands on the site. And of course we'll have to build ponds that creates

4:10:08more open space. I was

4:10:09just

4:10:09saying what do we what or what's our guessament on the ponds? Acreage wise, there's quite a few ponds. If you go back one slide.

4:10:18No, or Ford, whatever that was.

4:10:22Our engineers indicating probably around thirty-five. So it's going to be basically eighty-five acres of three hundred acres or so that are going to be left in open space at the end of the day. Okay.

4:10:35That doesn't include parks,

4:10:36by the way.

4:10:38What do we acreage for parks approximately?

4:10:40Well I Nine acres. I mean again, we're getting close to a hundred acres. I was just trying to get

4:10:46is there a trail along that spine road?

4:10:49Uh we're right now that we're building two separate uh the standard sidewalks all the way up the side. And bike lanes, Brian said. Okay, see the bike lanes are on the road, yeah. Right.

4:11:05Okay.

4:11:11Madam Chair. Yep.

4:11:13Um Do you have the map layers for that shows the future land use or the BC B O C C zoning?

4:11:22I think that we can find the future land use that was in that. That's probably the most helpful one.

4:11:29Yeah, there you go. So you can see there's res six to the north, res nine to the south, some res three, a lot of res six to the to the west, some ROR, and then that whole big splotch off to the east is the public semi public, which is again just for members of the public. That's for what are considered like regional size utility infrastructure that the county constructs. So it's considered very intense use.

4:11:57Thank you. That's what I was looking at was the north and the surrounding res sixes and res nine.

4:12:02So we're we're actually lower than the majority of what surrounds us.

4:12:07I I have a question for you, Clark. Um you said is there two five foot one on each side?

4:12:13Um Brian? Yes, plus the bike line.

4:12:16Um would our codes allow for those sidewalks to be Would our codes allow for those sidewalks to be aggregated on one side so you have a multi-use path? I don't know what the trail network is is up here. I we've never this

4:12:33Commissioner We it's funny you say that. That I we had actually discussed that last week. We would prefer to do that. We think that's better if we're going to build an eight-foot multi-use path along the frontage. We we'd rather have it continue on with that. Yeah. And staff has allowed that before. You know, I was reluctant to bring that up. There's so many other bigger issues, you know, off site that we are trying to address. But we'd rather do that. I think it'd be better for the neighborhoods. and for the our project to have a bigger path.

4:13:02This is the first project that I recall really diving into in this area. And so I've never seen what uh the trail network looks like up here, what it could be. But I certainly um I know I helped some people who have a blueberry farm up there work on access to some Swift Mud property I think to be able to ride their horses. Up and down on the sides of a um Of a canal of some sorts? I don't know remember where that

4:13:32is around here, but I sure would like to see us um start looking at what Um What a a nice trail network could look like in in this area it might be equestrian and pedestrian. Um because I think we have great opportunities opportunities up here and I understand that's what maybe some of your impact fee money could go towards but We have neglected this area as far as that goes, in my opinion.

4:14:00Mr. Shurik was also pointing out we actually have a twenty-foot buffer on each side of our sidewalks. Uh going up the spine roads there's more than adequate area for doing a really nice job with a multi use path. Madam Chairman Mariano. Can you go back to this

4:14:16um site plan?

4:14:23Clark again, I can't remember um your lot sizes on average again?

4:14:27That there there were more be more than fifty percent will be fifty foot lots. You were s um strictly single family? There there are n it's everything's detached. What may be in in area B may be a rental community, but it's going to be detached properly. Okay. So again, we think that's in keeping with the area. Yeah, I

4:14:47understand. I understand. It's all detached though. Okay. So no no no multi story, multifamily, or talents.

4:14:52A tree on every lot.

4:14:55Yes. We'll we're following all the rules. We're following all the rules. It's all but that that part's that part's already in the M P U D conditions.

4:15:03But I've been looking at those mobile home parks and I I just want you to know that there and staff there's no trees, or very few. And some of them have cemented the whole lot.

4:15:13So the neighbors to the to the east, and I know we have some neighbors from the east would not look to the west and see multi family.

4:15:21in the spirit of full disclosure, they're not intending on building anything but detach now, but it does allow for townhouses in there. But there's no other like multifamily apartments. None of that stuff.

4:15:33And B or an A and B?

4:15:35We're not I mean we're not doing garden style apartments or anything like that.

4:15:44And I keep hearing transportation. Looking at this road I know there is six you said six point seven million and that's gonna be allocated to o this specific area alone?

4:15:56It would just be just to be used between Coyote and Little. in Hudson and Houston. So I mean the area that I think the neighborhood's concerned about. We're programming the funds, you know, like I said, this community is not going to be built all at once. These things don't happen like that and the impacts aren't going to be felt overnight. We'll start generating the funds, and as we're generating the funds, then the county can start making the improvements along the way.

4:16:21And and I I do want to make one more point and I I I I really have to go, so we're gonna have to call the vote. I don't know anything about any other development other than this gentleman that just came up and said something about industrial woods. I don't know about that one either. So all I can base what I'm talking about here is this one. And I think that's coming to the right-of-way.

4:16:42And

4:16:42I'm just gonna say that's all we really can vote on. I can't vote on something that someone is telling me speculatively maybe coming somewhere, which I don't even know where. Yeah. So um I do have a question on that car lot down the street. And when did that come in? That auto auction.

4:16:57Yeah.

4:16:58Is that new?

4:16:59No, it's been there for a while.

4:17:00Okay.

4:17:00Uh but to to your to your point there, Madam Chair, if I could just comment on it?

4:17:04Yeah. Do you have to sign in?

4:17:06We had a land use amendment come to us before. on Denton Avenue and Kitten Trail. Sixteen hundred units. Uh at the time before we had the industrial presentation done to us, there was seventy acres of industrial land there. That's gonna be coming back to us for final approval soon. But they continue that we've we've gonna continue that down for a little bit further.

4:17:31Okay. So that's sixteen hundred units in addition to this eight hundred that's coming in. So as far as whether it's comes or not It's something that it's on the table that we should be aware of. Um

4:17:42You know, if if s if if there's a desire for this area to be different, the time to do that is when we do uh we do our comp plan. But right now this is what we have. And Um And and to let the public know, we're redoing our comprehensive plan use plan. I've shortened the term for that. That's the blueprint that we follow for growth. This is res three. Which is how many units?

4:18:08It's uh would yield eight hundred and four unit, but it's the the adjacent stuff is either res six or res nine. So it's either two or three times the density here.

4:18:17So that's what's supposed to go there. So

4:18:19can you go back to the zoning though? Not the land use. Can we show the land uh the zoning up there, please?

4:18:28In this area, the way it's developed out, and we saw something similar in Dade City. Dade City had stronger densities, but it developed rural. Around it has developed rural. Take away the RMH on Houston Avenue. It's all pretty rural in that whole area. There's no sidewalks. There's no trails. Um even Denton Avon it got built years ago. Don't even know it's really standard, but just got built. Um kit and trail drainage was put in. Um there's no streetlights, no sidewalks. And frankly You know,

4:18:58one of the things we can consider as far as in a an approval denial is whether a proposed change will adversely affect the living conditions in the immediate and the surrounding area. So I know it's getting late, but I will say that I'm not going to support this as it is. Um I'm just gonna say that and we'll see what happens from here.

4:19:19Can can I make a a a suggestion just if there's a motion in favor? I hear Commissioner Mariano and I respect his position. Can we make sure that we pick up the conditions that were offered this morning by staff? that create the fund that's so important for this. There are two the updated conditions this morning and then David also has the condition about the connection at Hicks.

4:19:41So the funds go directly to the specific project.

4:19:43They're segregated to the county and the county figures out how to use them.

4:19:47Is that a separate motion?

4:19:49No, there's conditions in there for it.

4:19:52Someone make a motion.

4:19:54Do I need to send it? And then if it passes. Well, if it doesn't pass, throw it away.

4:20:01And then there are sidewalks on are there will be there will there be sidewalks on Denton and coming out going towards the that

4:20:08is in the condition that staff offered this morning as well. There were two changes. One is to add the multi-use path on Denton, and the second is to create the fund. And then the third condition change that we read in was the one we were speaking of that connects makes the little connection to picks. And again, I guess the last thing also would be to pick up the ability for the developer to build a eight foot multi use path along the spine road and l in lieu of five foot sidewalks on either side. So you're not going to be able to do that.

4:20:38No, I I said ten foot. Ten okay.

4:20:42Ten is okay.

4:20:43Because it's five and five.

4:20:44Okay, fair enough. Okay. Same amount.

4:20:46Basically you'd add an alternative standard to nine oh one point eight to so that you could build How old do you a ten foot multi use path instead of the two sidewalks.

4:20:57Right. Understood. Yes, sir.

4:21:01Someone make a motion.

4:21:06I I I can't make it.

4:21:07Motion to approve. With the conditions? With the conditions. And as long as all of the conditions are followed through. And I looked at it and it was an additional six point seven million, I believe, to the school district for schools.

4:21:23Okay. Is there a second?

4:21:26Second.

4:21:27Okay, there's a motion and a second.

4:21:32It includes the two conditions that Tammy emailed you yesterday. the condition that I read earlier about the It adds the alternative standard for to build the multi-use trail instead of a sidewalk on both sides. And it removes the alternative standard for the cul de sacs. That's correct.

4:21:51No cul de Sachs.

4:21:52Right. No T turn.

4:21:57That's correct. Is that is that your motion?

4:21:59Yes.

4:22:00Okay, thank you.

4:22:01Second or three. Correct. Yes.

4:22:04Okay. All in favor?

4:22:06Aye.

4:22:06Aye? Opposed?

4:22:08No.