Zoning Amendment (Regular) - The Village Green MPUD - LBD I, LLC - A Rezoning Request from A-R Agricultural Residential and AR-1 Agricultural Residential to MPUD Master Planned Unit Development to Allow for a Maximum of 470 Dwelling Units and 14,000 Square Feet of Neighborhood Scale Commercial on Approximately 48 Acres
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approval with Conditions
DispositionContinued
Approved Staff’s recommendation with the additional Conditions that the project would substantially comply in their submissions at Site Plans with the conceptual drawings that were presented at this hearing, that the applicant would meet with the concerned residents on Wirt Road about additional buffering on Wirt Road prior to the submission of their first Site Plan, and the developer would constr
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Nov 14, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Nov 14, 2023
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PDD-24-7710 in full →PDD-24-7710 was taken up 2 times between Oct 10, 2023 and Nov 14, 2023, continued 2 times — this is appearance 2.
- Oct 10, 2023BoardP85▶Continued
- Nov 14, 2023BoardP105▶Continuedthis item
No appearance of this case has a final disposition in the minutes. It was continued, or the minutes do not dispose of it in writing — which is true for 24% of items.
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 26m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 79% of 420 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Yes, Mr Chair. Item P
one
oh five was published in the Tampay Times on August second, twenty twenty three.
Yeah, they actually.
Hi again. Good evening. So before I start Who did you offend?
So I do have a couple of things that um I would like to include. I know that there was some um worry of collaboration between a couple of the projects that are submitting in in this uh village. So I have the approved modified village plan for both of them. Um and I would just like to submit it for the park. Then on second I would have um some emails with the applicant and some of the landowners in the area regarding um right-of-way acquisition for Wort Road
and their all denial of selling in the near future.
Yeah.
So we have a motion to
receive and file.
Do we have to have for most data?
That's staff. You don't have
to have
much data. Yeah, right.
I don't know, that's
a Just make sure. Make sure make sure that it's yeah. Normally I think we do do a motion to receive and file even. Move to receive
and file.
Second.
Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye.
Aye. Any opposed?
We'll take care of it.
There it is.
So this is PDD twenty three seventy seven ten, uh the village green MPV. And so this is a zoning amendment and it's rezoning a rezoning request from AR Agricultural Residential and AR1 Agricultural Residential to an MPUD Master Plan Unit Development District. Uh to allow for four hundred and seventy dwellings, townhomes, and apartments, uh and a hundred and or I'm so sorry, fourteen thousand square feet of neighborhood scale commercial uh located on the west side of Ward Road, approximately a half mile north of Prospect. Here's a
location within the county. Here is location within uh V OPH.
Here is the aerial of the property.
The surrounding area for you.
Uh the current zoning, A R one and A R.
And so here's uh a picture of the m the master plan for you. If you can see that Little center part right there, that is gonna be their village green, that's their s centerly located lawn uh and where their commercial is gonna be located, um gonna be mixed use, um social gathering place, some weekend markets, stuff like that, a really good community asset in my mind.
Right.
And here's again just that zoomed in. You can see that that centrally located green and that lawn space, that park space, right in the center for you. So they are asking for a couple of variations. First, from section 525.2A1, a neighborhood commercial district, to allow for sales outside. Again, they're having weekend markets, stuff like that. They want to be able to conduct business outside of a building. Section 905.2D: site perimeter landscape buffering and screening,
to remove the internal landscape buffers in between different uses. Section 905.1.E, amount of land required for parks to count. Only 35% of the village green, that's that's center centrally located park that they have. towards the required park space, Section 902.2.L, uh to reduce a stormwater easement around the village green where the future commercial space will be located, and section 905.2.d.6 to remove the landscape uh requirements for stormwater facilities
located near public hearing.
So let me go back one more time. So going back uh to to section two and I totally meant to have my variation analysis up here, uh to remove the internal landscape buffers uh between different uses, like I said, they have that commercial area and the residential stuff like that. You wouldn't want to buffer in between uh an existing neighborhood. You want to have it cohesive, you want to have it uh Um Open to the public. It doesn't get rid of the requirement for actual building bu uh landscaping, so they're still
required to provide that landscaping. Um like I said, they only want to count 35% of that century park space for the actual parks, their actual parks requirement. It is multi-uh faceted. It is going to be a stormwater retention area. as well as a park, so it they didn't want to count the full thing towards park space 'cause it's multi use, but they did want to have some um some of that percentage count towards and the parks department did approve this variation. Um There is uh like I said, the village green
is gonna be a stormwater retention area. Uh so they wanted to reduce the easement around the village green where those commercial location uh Those commercial areas will be located. The intent of this code is to provide access for maintenance, you know, mowing and stuff like that. And so they'll have that access through that commercial area. And last, uh remove the landscaping requirements for stormwater facilities located near public right-of-way. Like I said, there this is kind of a duplicate landscaping that they would ha would have had to do. They already have to do perimeter buffers and stuff like that. And
so the the It's basically h removing the double dipping from them.
And so there was one added condition from the the PPC, uh the Planning Policy Committee, which is to bind the effective date of the Village Group MPUD to the approval of uh the Comp Plan CPA04 PUD twenty four zero zero twenty six, and that was earlier on our agenda. Um I believe it was item ninety-one or ninety-two. It was uh the Village B and C Text Amendment that we talked uh very extensively about earlier.
So we do have we have been back and forth with this work road situation. So P D D has been asking for the applicant to build work road. We give them transportation development fee credits as we've been kind of talking in exchange for uh infrastruc infrastructure. However, given the the technical requirements for building the road and again all the adjacent property owners r refusing to sell right away, we will not be able to build
that road for a long time and then we risk getting into the imminent domain uh problem which I don't think anyone really wants to do. So instead we've come up with An alternative, they will provide an access point with you know pedestrian access, with golf cart access to Wert Road. uh once it is fully built out either by the county or developer. Um but right now it'll be reserved to um uh emergency vehicle access.
And so this comes with a recommendation of approve with conditions.
So emergency access, I mean who's gonna drive down a dirt road with a fire truck when you got curly road right beside it? W why is that even there?
Uh the emergency access is primarily just so that we can transition to the full functional access once the developer or once the road is actually built. One day. So it's more of like uh planting ahead. It's gonna be not really access, it's just gonna be It'll be gated um for now and then again, like I said, once the road gets built. So
we we're trying to put connectivity with Rot Road. That's why we were originally trying to do it. Now we're finding out the residents don't want to sell, they don't want to see it developed. What have you done to m do improvements on Curly?
So We don't have any improvements on curly currently. Like I said, we discussed this earlier, there's no real time frame for it. And with their transportation analysis, they didn't trigger any more improvements. And I'm not a transportation planner unfortunately, but that is just how I understand the situation. And they're just not putting enough r uh trips on the road.
Can I can I So but they do have to pay mobility fee.
Yes, so they will pay for their full mobility fees. They're not providing any infrastructure. So those mobility fees will go into the general VOPH fund that could be used for curly in the future. whatever the county decides or again Wort Road in the future. Really it it goes into a pot that we can distribute to the entire district.
How many cars gonna be entering the road
from Village Green? from oh like build on this project. So um said there would be an emergency access, but but they wouldn't be able to access it.
But can that be on no? I
mean going out on
curvy. How many how many traffic count we have going out on current.
I do not know that off the top of my head. I would have to defer to the applicant for that. How many units? Uh it is four hundred and seventy. It is a mix of apartments and townhomes.
Be
a
lot of traveling.
Commissioner Starkey.
On the emergency ac access that can be a a bike trail or pedestrian pedestrian activists they can ride their bikes upward to get to the corner or someone who wants to come to an activity at their village green and think of Starkey Market, that's very similar to what they're doing. That way other people that are up on Curley or what's the road going this way?
Uh McCabe. Okay,
they can come down where on a bike. and go into the neighborhood to th to access the watering hole or whatever um on the village screen. So that's good.
Well what's traffic. Yeah, w w what road they don't I mean they don't want to have traffic anyway, but you can just go a little bit further, come up curly, same roadway coming in, and you're closer to the village ring without having to go around all the homes. So I mean you get to the same place without Uh Bothering what road. More importantly, if you improve
white
if you improve a big pedestrian way coming up, if nothing else, on Curly, you at least take people in a safe area.
The multi use path is on Curly.
So it's on the same side.
Bye. Yeah, it's on that side.
This is on the east side? Is it in the plan or is it already there? Because I don't think it's already there.
You know I'm not I'm not sure where it is.
I'm pretty sure it's not there.
I think it might be on the other side of the street. Well well the applicant's gonna come up. I know we talked about this in his course in my meeting with him.
So anyway so so no improvements are being made on Curly Road. And you're forgetting about ro the w road improvements where the center was gonna be. We switched it over now. Now we move the density over to this side. And we're doing nothing to improve and with the other side we're connected city is we don't know what they're gonna do and we don't have any connection there either. And this is going to be a six-lane row, we just don't know when.
I exactly. And when that six lane road road does come in, it will have those multi-use paths and uh lanes and stuff like that as well.
Uh let me ask another question. There's a little jog out in the piece where it says Wort Road in the E C You've got retention ponds on both sides and then you've got apartments going right behind. Now from everything we've been hearing There's like should be a setback from one zoning class to another. Minimum I've heard I think is twenty-five. And you're putting apartments right behind this guy's property. Does that seem right?
Yeah, so we actually have um on the MPUD uh boundary there is a I believe thirty foot um setback from from the right away from Wort uh for anything over two stories and then I believe uh anything over three stories is thirty five feet. Um and then um uh again the the stormwater ponds around his his neighb uh around his house would be c conceptual at this point. So But behind
his house, we're not not north and south where the retention ponds are gonna be. Behind him you've got apartments going right behind this guy's house.
Yeah, and and like I I mentioned before, there is still a thirty to thirty-five foot setback from the property line to make sure that they're not right up against them.
But why wouldn't you like put townhomes as a stage buffer between the two?
As opposed to apartments right behind him.
I I don't disagree. I mean that would be up to the applicant to change that. Um but you made the recommendation for approval? Yeah, I I didn't make a recommendation of approval. I mean apartments and townhomes and single family apart are a a single family housing are all fairly compatible. Especially when we have a village center like this where south you have five dwelling use per acre, then even before that you have two dwellings per acre. So uh s that's my personal opinion, complaining opinion. Commissioner Weightman.
Thank you, Chair. This this goes back to what the conversation we had earlier. the identity of what the core is supposed to be. What product was playing where? and then now the direction that we're headed. And You know.
Staff does bring forward thing bring forward items recommendation for approval that we box. Um It goes back to the planning the the the planning process and the direction we want to go with this project. We've already started making decisions on portions of this on this on the section here, the McCabe and PUD that shifted the the the village a little bit. Um You know, and this plane here is it's conceptual anyway.
I mean, it's unique in the sense that there'll be a four acre perk pond that's gonna add lifestyle abilities and potential fun place to be, that's unique. It might be the only place in the county that that could be done. But to me it's a bigger this is a This decision today and in my mind is not just about this specific project. It's about how this the V O P H is gonna take off and when we make these decisions today, I think it sets the McCabe M PUD and
now the Villages on the Green, it's gonna set precedent for How we what we decide. for the future of each village throughout the course of this project. So the decisions that we make today are are going to be looked upon as this project develops. So to me it's a broader this this conversation is a broader a broader policy discussion. And I'm a bit nervous to make it have
to be forced to make a call today in haste, to be quite honest. I wanna make sure we we get this right. It has nothing to do with the project and I mean, Villages of the Green is a very unique project over so you don't I don't think there we haven't seen any anyone like it and they've been they've worked incredibly hard to bring forward A unique project to this area. But does it Does it fit? And that's my my concern of being forced
to make a decision today without further ado.
I think we should have to apply 10.
Anyway, I'll leave it at the end.
This is a V O P H product, right? It has gone before the board for V OPH before it came to us. So what you're talking about, they should have already looked at to say that does fit in their their plan. Because they have a board of citizens. I put a member on there and I probably each each district put a member on that board to help look at these items before we get them. So unless someone knows that they didn't look
at this issue about if it fit. That's kind of on the V O P H because I would think that's what they would be looking for. They're making sure their villages and V O P H fit for where they're supposed to go.
Well I've been thought you were through. Sorry. David might have answered. Uh Mr. Steinsteiner might have that answer. David sits on that board, right? He advises that board. He advises that board. Advises that board. But true what I just stated? That's I'd like to know that.
I think it gets. Is it so yes it's true that they did look at this project and they approved it and found that it was a good fit.
What
about
the planning commission?
Oh didn't that
V O P H. Oh they
operate as the Planning Commission for V O P H.
Yeah.
Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Chairman Mr. Goldstein, wasn't there a considerable dialogue Around this of I mean it's They approved it. But the context is important because they caught they did their job. They caught something. and had significant dialogue and conversations and were
Doing what we're doing. Yes, but most of that dialogue to my recollection was about concern about the effect of this plan would have on other property owners in the village. So for example, I I don't know if we have a graphic of the entire village, um, but There there was a concern that, and and Christy Barrera from Height raised this concern, is there's another project called St. Leo Commons, which is coming
in at the northern part of this village. And so the concern was that unless that plan amendment got approved that you discussed earlier today, that there wouldn't be enough high-density areas for both this Project to get approved and St. Little Commons. So that's why that committee put a condition on this approval that said it's not effective until that Complant Amendment is approved and effective. So they so I'm not sure that the committee
was concerned about this project per se. They were concerned about the effect this project would have. on the other property owners in the village and that was the majority of the discussion. And there was a discussion about should it be first come, first served, and You know, I remember asking the applicant why did you take entitlements from St. Leo Commons? And they said, we were the first ones in. But the way that that was resolved by the committee was the imposition of this additional condition. But
I think to Commissioner Oakley's point, I don't think they had an underlying concern with the actual project. It was more what is it gonna do to another property owner?
But it deals with this one. If the
applicant once you know has a different recollection, I'm happy to let them win but that was my recollection.
But they were visiting this this project as a single village. They were not thinking about any other villages. They were thinking about this project.
They were they were definitely looking at Just this village. Yeah. And but they were concerned about the rest of the village. So for example, St. Leo Commons, my understanding is they want to do some vertical mixed-use type development, which I know Commissioner Starkey's a fan of. And so I don't think they wanted to do something with this project that would preclude St. Leo Commons from doing what they want to do. Right. So that's why they ended up with the condition saying that until this plan amendment is approved, it allows the village
to basically Yeah. then they've either both are gonna fail or the or the or they're both gonna get approved. But th they didn't want Village Green to get approved and then not be able to approve St. Leo Claw, 'cause that was effectively what they were concerned about. And if staff or the applicant have a different recollection, I welcome their comments.
So the the problem that goes with the area, the original circles, road was the center, curly road was gonna be still six-lane, you've got connected cities right beside it. In the connected cities part that's right on there southern b southern part of Clinton Ave or McCabe Road. Um right in there there's no connection coming out. That means everybody from Maratha is gonna come down below this pitcher They're gonna have
to take this new road which we don't know from what staff says when it's gonna be ready, when it's gonna be done, uh driven drove drove down it I don't recall any trail being there alongside that two lane road. And anybody if they're coming from World Road, if they're trying to get out They're gonna go around and it's gonna be a a bit of a hassle to get out there and get out there and and g get to fifty two as well. So it's not that the project's bad, right? You got a you got a nice design, it's a good setup other than the one guy that I think you're kinda like crimping
on. Yeah, th what you're setting up is good. I'm just worried about all the traffic and it's not just connected and it's not just V O P H beside it. You got connected city to the other side. We're I don't know if we get all the infrastructure in place that we're gonna need to have. to get all these extra units coming in. until you make those improvements at a minimum If you're gonna try to make this where people are gonna come to, you're gonna have a way to get there. One way or the other. And I just don't see that yet. Um and I and I I and I'm glad we're gonna
go take a look closer to Connected City, but I think B O P H needs to look at this close too. And again, with the other parts of coming above it and across the way. I mean it's it's It's not what was designed. I I can I appreciate the shift in what we're doing and the density doesn't bother me, but the Transportation infrastructure is what concerns me at this point. How are we going to make it all work?
Okay.
All right. Any other thoughts for staff? All right.
Uh thank you uh Chairman. Uh for the record Bruce Landis, 3810, North Dale Boulevard, Suite 100, Tampa, Florida.
And you have been sworn.
And I have been sworn.
Do I have to redo that since it's been so thank you? Appreciate uh the comments and questions. I I I do want to affirm what uh uh Mr. Goldstein uh mentioned, that that is um the discussion that occurred at the uh Village of Pasadena Hills uh Planning and Policy Committee. Um The I'd like to just address one of the comments and then reserve the rest of my time to you know allow response to uh the residents. Uh we will also,
I think, in in some of those comments address the the uh roadway system uh questions that you have directly on the uh village of Pasadena Hills comprehensive plan, the village plan B, when that was first debated. developed that was when that was before um uh connected cities went into place. And so therefore when Village of Pasadena Hills uh the village plans and the comprehensive
plan was adopted, it said that it would they those that was the concepts for those nodes, but they would be looked at as MPUDs went through and were being considered And approved. So it envisioned back then, 15 plus years ago, some transition. And this particular node B is one that's in transition because of two things: because of the connected cities and Maraudha development that
occurred after that, and then also the construction of a state highway through the very heart of the note. So I'd like to I have uh staff to be able to testify and provide more information on that as far as how we're uh compliant with the comprehensive plan in the intent that was built there, but I would like to with your permission just reserve that to for response to some of the residents.
Um I mean I I wouldn't Put your presentation on in full rather than just waiting to respond. Okay. Okay. Um
so if I can't. work. Okay there, great. So um Some of the I guess in addressing the comprehensive plan, staff has found our petition in compliance with the plan. They had initiated the comprehensive plan amendment as you heard earlier today, and we certainly welcome and support it. The VOPH uh Planning Policy Committee uh unanimously recommended
uh um R MPUD for approval to you recognizes recognizing that it complies with the V O P H comprehensive plan. Uh they did feel a lot more comfortable and as Doc as excuse me, Dr.
Thank you. Jessica Coal with Landis Evans and Partners, 3180, North Dale Boulevard, Tampa. I have been sworn.
So as Mr. Landis mentioned, um we have a state road now bisecting our village. Um McCabe a nice country road has now turned into potential to be a six-lane uh highway. When we initially were confronted by staff about the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, we discussed a few things, making sure that there was enough entitlements to go around. As the comprehensive plan amendment that you folks heard earlier stated, there is some unused density in
the village general or neighborhood general in the neighborhood edge, and that comprehensive plan amendment would allow that density to be transferred to the center. So this is not an issue with any density or entitlements. This is about allocating certain land area to accommodate that village core. One of the things that was also discussed on on the planning level was having non residential uses to serve those residential uses on both sides of McCabe. that is specifically so that people don't have to cross
over that state road in order to get to those non-residential Serving uses.
talk that we mentioned um and I believe it was to the point of being outside of the quarter mile walking distance radius was the fact that VOPH did add golf carts as a a s required and preferred use similar to Connected City. There's a lot of push on staff to make sure we have that infrastructure not only internally to our site but externally so that people don't have to get in a normal traditional car. they can get in their golf cart and travel to these areas. We thought that was a brilliant idea. We do also um plan
on having some golf cart parking. adjacent to our village green on this side where our non-residential uses are. These three units are anticipated to house our retail neighborhood serving. And the two brown units above that are intended to be flex office space. We do intend upon having these Apartments surrounding the village green. Our thought was to keep the density internal, centralized. to Commissioner Mariano and Wayman's point
about this parcel kind of being right next to the apartments. We do have an MPUD condition that does say that these three-story units have to be 30 feet away from the prop the MPUD boundary. We this is a concept, so we do have the opportunity to relocate some of those townhomes if that makes the board feel more comfortable with this project. Um we do intend upon having pedestrian and bicycle connections. At
the time of this development's construction, so not at a later date. We will build that 24-access road, vehicular access to the property boundary, but that will be a gated for emergency access only until Wirt Road is improved. This will allow for people who are biking and walking to use the country road of Wirt Road and access things on McKay. and get to where they need to go and ideally also get to the non-residential sorry the
non-residential uses that are going to be Provided, hopefully proposed soon, right on this southeast corner of the intersection of McCabe and 52. I do understand the concerns with the ever flowing Changes that we see in VOPH specifically with the villages. VOPH was designed to, especially in the Comp Plan, guide us to these grants. Every MPUD
that seeks approval before the VOPH board and you folks has to submit their village meet plan as Mr. Two very graciously or succinctly explained during the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. It is up to staff and the V OPH and you folks to determine if that is compliant. One of the things that we really tried to do was create placemaking. We wanted to make sure that people didn't have to travel very far to enjoy their quality of life. We do see a rise, about twenty-five percent of the workforce is not going to be working in an office anymore.
They are going to remain working from home. We do love the concept of having these wonderful flex based uses and even maybe, you know, in the clubhouses we can have some of those flex based uses so that people can have a conference call or have some meetings but not have to travel all over um even to Tampa, to get to their their their workplaces. This is not a traditional design that people see in Pasco. This is a traditional neighborhood design that we really are proud
of. This implements really the vision of what V O P H was supposed to be. This grid like pattern that makes us not have to walk miles to get to our neighbor that allows us to see our kids playing in in a local gathering space from the luxury of our maybe our apartment or our town home. This really does inspire the village green I'm sorry the village node of what VOPH was trying to do with these cores and spanning out its density. We didn't
want to sell our neighbors short. We do understand that we don't control that south east corner of the intersection. We don't know when that will become commercial. But we want our residents to enjoy their quality of life right away. And that's why we're asking for the 14,000 feet of neighborhood serving residential on our site. We know that if they can't get groceries there, it's not going to be a public. There are prohibitions. Uses, we're not gonna have drive-throughs. This is for your mom and pop businesses. This is to make that community feel be just that
part of this community. We do understand the concerns of Having to expand the village, but we are not increasing density. We are spreading that density out. Specifically in village B, we do see that there is a big encumbrance of the lake and wetlands. There are flood plains going through parts of the property, typically through this area into Connected City. And we also do, as Mariano, Commissioner Mariano mentioned
earlier during the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, have a stormwater pond interrupting our core. This the all these things including the interruption of State Road 52 were reasons why staff initiated the Comp Plan amendment to shift the village center so that it can be utilized, the non-residential uses so it can be utilized by both residents on the north and the south of this property. I will say that the the acre of commercial um uses
is kind of the catalyst. That is kind of what makes this village green work. We don't necessarily see people sitting out in an empty space along a green. We see them dining and and having coffee and visiting with their people. Yes.
Um On this plan that you're showing right now.
Yes.
You have Two story and three story buildings?
Two story townhomes, three story apartments.
Okay. Where are the three story compared to the neighbors in the area? And
I don't have a measurement on this, but our conditions would require a minimum of a 30-foot setback from the MPUD property boundary.
But your three story are not next to the edge, are they?
Correct, they are not.
I heard they were in the
Well the only concern I believe Commissioner Mariano had was this area right here where Mr. Garrett Keith has his property. And those are, I believe in if I'm phrasing your statement correctly, closer than you would expect for a home that's existing.
But can I say something on that? 'Cause I I thought so too, and then I then I went in and you know how I do on my map. Can you can you highlight that again? Yeah. His house is up front. What's a barns
in the back?
Yes,
he's relocated some historical um structures onto the site.
Okay.
I'll turn it back over to uh Mr. Landy's unless you'd like to put a little
bit of a
Oh thank you Jessica.
Um so commissioners yes we we certainly do have flexibility. Let me make sure I think this correct please. In this area, our we could easily shift those over to here so that we could provide a a phasing or a buffering of all the private properties through there. So we certainly have the flexibility of that and we can change the village green to more of a square shaped. So we do
have the flexibility to do that and would be happy to do that.
What if you what if you took the apartments and took the two buildings on the edges and turned them sideways and then moved the other two over you had
Yes, we could we could do that.
Yeah, but I'm making sure that's an issue because those are barns in the back. That's not That's not his house. So when he's looking out the window he's in his barns. I mean the prior books are way back. And there's a lot of trees there, so I I personally don't see that as an issue. I think this is one of the best layouts we've seen personally. I I really like it.
Thank you, Commissioner. So I do want to address uh uh Chairman Mr. Chairman your your your questions on the infrastructure. Um I just an overview, um our traffic impact uh study conclusively shows that the existing network can handle the existing traffic and our project on there and and Staff agrees that the existing two-lane curly road can handle our traffic, the cars from our
MPV. The majority of our traffic, vehicular traffic, will go to the north and then mostly to the west and then some to the east on McCabe Road, the state highway, through there. The county staff nevertheless they require rideway from us along uh the curly road frontage and also wort road frontage. On the curly road frontage, they're requiring eighty-three feet of rideway from the center line of the road, and that will match uh
about eighty-two feet on the other, so that will provide, if I do my math right, 165 feet or so, which would accommodate a future. Six-lane divided section through there. The staff did condition our MPUD condition 17, which outlines the turn lanes, left turn lanes and right turn lanes on Curley Road. So those would be in place regardless of whether it's two-lane or widened to four to six. Um
and and I think you discussed earlier um The VOPH financial plan identifies Curley Road being widened to four-lane divided, and it identifies that, as you discussed earlier, the impact mobility fees from the approved VOPH MPDs would fund that construction uh infrastructure. And again, as we discussed, it can be uh directed, the county can direct it to the uh Curley Road if that at that point. point needs to be widened or work
road to turn that into a one of the VOPH vision roads. And in fact, as uh Mr. Gavin Covey mentioned, condition twenty-one uh implements that in and provides that for us. Um my traffic engineer Theo Petrich is here to answer any questions you might have as far as capacity goes or or Safety on the roadways. Uh he's uh yes ma'am.
Um
can you talk
about the arrows uh going e north and south, I guess, on the sides of your project?
Oh yes, yes ma'am. Um so uh from day one we envisioned this and worked with staff in terms of okay how can we help implement the village B uh concept and that's the the grid network, kind of an open uh circulation that's family friendly and that's really mostly oriented for bicycle, pedestrian and you know growing golf cart. And so we have on the um master circulation plan, which is binding,
um on our plan, those arrows that you see here, we have that same pattern that's shown on the general um circulation plan, the green arrows would be potentially motor vehicle connections and the yellow areas would be arrows would represent the bicycle pedestrian connections. So we intend to have more than one connection to work road, it would be though limited to bicycle pedestrian, because that's really what we're trying to bring about through this kind of development is
that bicycle pedestrian and golf cart circulation to the adjoining properties as they don't have to open them up right now, but when they're developed, then they will have that flexibility to implement that that grid pattern is desired.
Um Commissioner O uh Mr. Chairman Mariano initial questions I I'd like to reserve the rest of my
strategy
at
this point. Pardon? I think it's a good strategy at this point.
Thank you.
Okay. Um and I would take public comment. And Madonna Wise, who was a person who I spoke with with a group of different people, asked for
Some extra time I granted it. I just don't know what the number was. Ten minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you so much. County Commission. I'm a former principal. In fact, I taught one of these people up here. Um and at this point in time, if I were at my school, I'd probably have us doing exercises. Thank you so much. You have been so patient today, and I think I have a whole new understanding of the County Commission. So I appreciate your time. This is my husband Ernie. Um we are both Retired educators. We represent 27 neighbors in our area. I think you have that signed sheet.
Ms. Wise, before you continue on, could you state your name and address for the record of your easy? I'm Madonna Jervis Wise. I'm at [address removed]. And then
whether or not you've been sworn. Same address.
Thank you. And then have you both been sworn? Yes. Yes, we were both sworn earlier. Yeah, we've been enjoying the whole day. Okay. Thank you. Um, and we do have a PowerPoint and wonderful Sonia is going to run it for me. You would never know. I was a uh a director at Florida Virtual School. I supervised 200 teachers, but I still need a lot of help, Sonia, so thank you. Um we are here, we're here with uh some other neighbors. And we are really here to talk about
quality of life because this for us is quality of life. And I don't mean to be dramatic, but please help us save our quality of life. This is a beautiful sunset on one of the horse farms that we look at almost every day, and it it is changing uh drastically. I did bring, by the way, Ernie in my resume, and I wanted to give this We have several degrees or an ethobotanist. Um we need a motion. A variety of other things.
But anyhow, um Ms. Weightman positive time.
I have a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Go ahead. Oh,
sorry. Okay. And the other materials as well. Um if you can go ahead, um some of our credentials. I I've done federal grant writing for three school districts. I'm pretty familiar with this format. But I'll tell you what, after that neighborhood meeting, it took me a lot of uncovering to begin to understand this. This is very, very complex. Um go ahead. We just really want to share with you our concerns. These are the next slide shows you
the signatures of the neighbors, but you have a better copy of this.
Overwhelmingly, there is concern. And these are the things we want. And I don't mean to be too demonstrative here. You've got to realize I'm coming from a different orientation. In the next slide, we'll show you what we wanted. And I don't want anybody to panic on this because I think as we go through this PowerPoint you'll understand. We need a density, a density that's about 5 per acre. 10 per acre commercial density really interferes
with our cohesive neighborhood.
Big time.
We need to exclude three-story structures, and some of that has already been revealed in terms of why that would be. And we definitely need, Ernie's going to share with you traffic information from your operation, from Lisa Davis, or from Amy Davis. We need an installation of a stoplight on Curly. I go out every morning with my dog and I watched the traffic on Curly. It's heavy duty commercial
traffic and Ernie will share with you the the um actual uh
Curly and what intersection?
Curly and what
Curly and what intersection? Curly and what intersection? McCaid.
We're uh we're on the uh the Leonard side. We're we're right where Curly turns into Prospect.
So you want to light it curly and prospect?
No, we want to
quite unlik uh at this particular uh proposed uh development.
And we'll share with you a little bit more about that as we go along. But next thing I want to tell you that this has been a nightmare for us. And I don't mean to Blame anybody, but why in the world could we not collaborate with this developer? There has been no collaboration whatsoever. It started on March 30th with the neighborhood meeting. There were nine people at the neighborhood meeting and everyone said, We're very concerned about density. And we were told, that is
carved in stone. There's nothing you can do about it. It was a worry, a real worry. So we went back home And being educators, next one, something, um, we researched this. We called the county office. Gavin was extremely helpful. We looked, we went through records, we spent a lot of time. Uh, we were told we could write a letter, and it would be filed, uh, would be taken into consideration
by BOPH. We spent a couple Of days on forming that letter, tried to make it as respectful as possible and put all of the things that we were concerned about. But most of which was no communication, no impact whatsoever. The huge density road was a real concern at the meeting, the neighborhood meeting. People said that road needs to be vacated. Nobody bothered to tell. us at that meeting that that is part of the vision
for the future. We had to find that out on our own. We absolutely insisted on fencing and we were told Oh I'm sorry. I'm so coming. So can you give us like a few minutes for the two of us without all the neighbours? Are we kind of time?
You got ten minutes.
Okay, you got me ten minutes. Okay, I'm going. Okay, so keep going.
This was the letter, just to let you know, it was pretty involved. So we go to the BH meeting. Next slide. I don't think it happened exactly like they said. There were other people there. Uh at one point um Christy and Bruce were called up together and I was remembered they were standing here and they were not too happy with each other.
You have to be at the mic so we can pick you up. The record is is audio.
Um But at that time Um it the VOPH committee was kind of confused. They said we've never done anything like this. Let's push it up to the commission. That is my recollection.
Well let's see if they approve it on zoning or not. They more or less kicked the can up the road to you guys.
Yeah. So next we um and we also find out if the VOPH meeting, next slide, that our lot our letter was lost. And I asked Gavin, could we send this to the VOPH committee? Because it just seemed like we didn't have any input whatsoever. We were able to do that. But it was kind of a shame because we had so much information. Okay, next sequence in the timeline is we see on Property Shark with Bill Nye. Bill Nye happens to
be a good friend of ours whose Brent used to spend his childhood at our house. But anyhow, we see it listed. It's already listed with the zoning as commercial, listed as the average. Average age of twenty-three. It was just a concern. And I talked to Gavin about that. Next slide. This is what it looks like in the area. Majestic oaks are everywhere. This is one of the most beautiful areas you'll ever want to find. Keep
going, there's just a few slides here. We do have a problem with wildlife. Our fox squirrels have left. Our owls have left. The construction has obviously driven them away. Next slide. The gopher turtles literally are coming down our road. They don't have any other way to get out of Epperson and Maraudha because their habitat's been damaged. Also, wild hogs and coyotes are, they've already invaded
the horse farms. These are, so in the next slide you'll see are the horse farms in the area. You can keep that one. That's our neighbor. That's the blazing saddle horse farm on Wurtz. And these are just some of the slides in our area.
Okay, so keep going and Ernie's going to tell you just a little bit about the traffic and accident situation.
Okay, tra uh on the southwest corner of their property, the uh this memorial stands, this young person lost their life uh adjacent to that property. There's a little rise in the road. It's a real hard area to see from. Uh you know, I'm sure that was in part what caused that accident. The next one, please. Uh another accident happened there outside of the data that uh you'd received earlier. Uh about a month ago, roughly
person lost control on the curve and pro curly in prospect and unfortunately lost his life.
Okay.
Um let's see, traffic course volume is very heavy. Essentially, we're getting somewhere in the category of about a little short of 6,000 vehicles through there per day. Uh these are done in the studies. You have the details there on your uh reports. Uh quick summary, fatal accidents. three years and uh how many we've lost on that stretch of road. Traffic is a major, major concern
that we have in addition to police and fire.
County wide has just not been able to keep up with the demand. And then we're adding in more and more. Of course, these are two of the one of the most recognizable homes here that Linda and her husband have.
This is a very historic area and the the slide before shows you a Sears and Roebuck house. It's the McCabe homestead. And the dog park is right beside it. This could be on the historical registry. This kit came into San Antonio on um By rail. By rail. And uh it's it's really an exquisite place. But it is uh this development is butted up right against it. So next slide. What uh back one. There
we go. This is the uh configuration. All we want to say is, is this really what we want? This is Mr. Keith's property at the back. I've never seen anything like this except maybe in in New York City where you see a skyscraper and a little house that wasn't developed. He is going to have two stormwater ponds and indeed four apartment complexes right there. The neighbors on
The uh the left side there are already concerned there like in North Carolina, and they're like these apartment buildings are literally gonna be looking right into our bedrooms. We don't understand. Um we know this is this schematic is non-binding, but it needs to be changed. We're not wanting you to throw this out, but this is going to affect a cohesive neighborhood. We
And um It it it's a beautiful plan, but as they say in Master Gardener training, right plant, right place. This is right schematic but wrong place. It just does not fit for us. Okay. Um the half the half mile, the half mile walkable distance that they extended would put you in Lake Kirsey
or
crossing fifty two. Mrs. Wise.
I'm gonna try to ask you again, where exactly on the on curly do you want that stoplight?
Okay. Maybe
go back to this. I check adjacent to the west side of the development.
So at their entryway?
between the right-of-way.
Between their northern and their southern boundaries to pay for a on curling.
They'll be crossing traffic and it will literally be a nightmare. Um and I don't know what the traffic studies are, but the accidents, fifty accidents in a five year period, it may have involved a number of fatalities.
So we're gonna end it. I gave you the ten minutes.
Mr Chair, I have no one else um signed up but I don't know if you want to call
Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak?
And Mr. Chairman I have no one else signed up or no one's on WebEx for this item.
Someone's walking up.
May I please? My name is Linda Snell. I'm at [address removed]. And ma'am, were you sworn? Yes, ma'am. Okay, thank you. Um and I'm trying to brief. It's five o'clock um here for me as well. Um I'm not a density expert. I don't have a presentation. I'm gonna wax a little sentimental, I guess. Um My home, as Madonna mentioned, was built in eighteen
eighty-nine. Um I'm the current resident of four generations of McCabe. Um McCabe Road was a very rural road. Uh Wort is even more so. It's a dirt road. uh some of our friends have said you live on a dirt road and I said yes and we like it. Um so I am opposed to the amount of density. I'm buoyed by the fact that the Commission
is talking about looking at a comprehensive plan that maybe was approved twenty five years ago but is not reality for today. for today's traffic. Um my great uncle was the third abbot at Saint Leo. My brother-in-law recently retired after 40 years with the Dade City Fire Department. My nephew is a new firefighter as of two months ago. Um we're proud of this area and um as
stewards of this area I'd like you all to help it. Sorry.
Thank you.
Anyone else sign up?
No one else has signed up.
Does anyone else w like to address this issue, this this item? Is there anyone on WebEx?
No one on WebEx.
Uh it comes to the board. Bruce, do you want to come back up?
Yes, sir. I may I'd like to address some of the comments that were made as far as um our availability. We've met with um neighbors three times. Um at those uh meetings we made available our email and and um and phone numbers. Uh we just received or saw um Mr. and Mrs. Wise um email or or their their uh their memo two days after the BOPH Planning and Policy Board Committee. meeting
and uh immediately after we received that we reached out to staff who suggested they meet with the with the Wises and and the WISES then so we agreed and they um the WISES then declined saying they they refused to meet with us didn't feel like it was appropriate.
So um So not only did we have not only the required meeting, but we had several voluntary meetings with them, and they they many of the neighbors have my phone number. I've talked with them on the phone a number of times. At those meetings, some of the things we did talk about was screening. And if I can switch over to our graphic We um have created conditions of approval Um yeah, if you want to go to um slideshow format. That
would help me. We uh worked with the adjoining neighbors to have enhanced screening and buffering on the south side and also on the north side and then specialty buffering on the um northwest side. Sir that is not a Is there a way you can Oh, you're pulling it out? Okay.
Please save that picture. I'm gonna wanna use that later on.
Okay, thank you.
Oops.
So um yeah so we have additional
screening on the on the right side, which would be the south, on the north side, uh with um Ms. Smel Snell's property and then the uh northeast northwest notch we also have additional buffering and the materials that the Penciat has requested that we put in there. So we've had quite a bit of collaboration and condition uh of approval number ten includes that. Um I would like to also say they they mentioned fencing
along Wort Road. That quite frankly would be fine with us. At the time, we had said no, we would prefer not to have any fencing. We wanted to keep the perimeter of this open along Wert Road and also with the adjoining properties with the connection there as part of that grid pattern and interconnectivity. However, if the board feels like that, that is uh something to to buffer off we'll be happy to do that. I would like to
address the safety and geometry of the roadway and and I'd like to ask uh Mr. Theo Petrich to uh briefly address that.
Thank you. My name is Theo Petrich. I work for Land O'Vens and Partners, thirty eight ten North Dale Boulevard, and I happen to one. Uh with respect to the crash data. Uh first of all, I am a professional traffic operations engineer, a certified roadway safety professional, and I've been a professional traffic engineer over twenty years. And I've been a civil engineer working for the Department of Transportation for an additional ten years before that. So this is safety is not something I do, it's what I do. I looked at the crashes in a typical study. We'll look at three years of data. I actually looked at
forty-four months because the data out of F D O T's repository. I can get all the way through August of this year. There were twenty-nine crashes out there. Two involved vehicles uh eastbound or westbound just on McCabe, so those were really not on the Curley section. One occurred at the intersection of Curley and McCabe, north of the intersection, and one crash was specifically noted as within a work zone, so I threw that out. If you're following along at home, that leaves me twenty-five crashes
in forty-four months. Um the fatal crashes were single occupancy vehicles running off the road, one of the per people was very intoxicated. That one that happened in 2009 two twenty nineteen was before my study, but was also a single vehicle crash that ran off the road. When you get down to it, there were two crashes, both no injury, that occurred on that roadway, people turning either left into or left out of a driveway or side street in four years. This is not a high crash location. A
signal if you put one in, if we warranted one, you've got to meet warrants to put in traffic signals. Those are kind of the rules. The reason you have to do that is if you put in a signal, they cause crashes. We know they cause crashes. That's why we require a certain amount of delay before we put one in, because there's a cost associated with that. I looked at the roadway. The roadway meets the standards set forth with the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. There's nothing noncompliant about the roadway with respect to the national guidance.
So it I could tell you what happened on every single crash, all of those crashes I listed. I read every single crash report.
a tire came off of a trailer and and and trailer lost control in one case. Another one a pipe fell off. We did have a side swipe of two large vehicles going down the road where they t one took another one's mirror off. I know every crash that happened out there. And the only crashes that would be of a type of someone coming out of a driveway, getting involved in a crash, two to four years on that such.
No questions?
Thank you. Thank you, Tigan. Um Commissioners, I guess I'd like to conclude with really just the the final highlight of how our MPUD, with your approval, furthers the concepts and goals of the village B, of the village of Pasadena Hills. There's been a lot of talk about utilizing this unique piece of property. This is along a ridge. This is one of the the high
ridges within Pasco County. It's got wonderful soils. And uh we've been able to develop a um That's where I am, we gotta go backwards. A comprehensive plan that takes advantage of the setting of this property. We certainly, as I mentioned before, can reconfigure the village green, provide some buffering in there as a condition, uh a transition
of townhomes rather than the the apartments uh adjoining there. Um our goal is to really provide With this kind of community, this community life that Ms. Kowal mentioned. It provides a center for the community. It is welcoming of the others in the community. We have a number of conditions that allow us to be able to have those farmers' markets for the local produce and to really provide a gathering
spot. And so we are here. respectfully urging you to vote for a quality MPUD in the Village of Pasadena Hills. This provides a grid pattern, a very walkable community, and I think this really encapsulates what's envisioned for the nodes of Village of Pasadena Hills. So with that, I'll uh answer any other questions that you might have, Mr. Chairman. Any questions? Mr. Stryker.
Chris one of the reasons why I'm in support of your project is the design of it. Um
But you're you're not the develop developer, you're the planner. I I think. I mean I've I just asked my my attorney is is this plan binding? And he said no conceptual. So how do I get reassurances that I we're gonna get these um rear loaded townhomes and the walkable grid that you have in your Yeah.
Well fair question, Commissioner. Uh we have a number of conditions of approval that em implement um the townhomes that we have shown. And the design we also have if I go back far enough to the um to the generalized mobility plan and so that is that is page two of our MPUD plan. Um I will tell you that uh this is the third of entitlements of these
kind of entitlements that I and my firm has done in the past two years. the um Amave Village M P U D that's rezoning uh seventy seventy five eighty six, that conceptual plan
is exactly
what we have site plan approval pending for and that's the twenty eight acres on fifty two. Is
that the one that's the um In front of kind of in front of Murata?
Uh that no, that's one of them. The one in front of No The one in front of Nov uh uh Marata is the Leo at San Antonio. That's forty acres. That's
another nice and laid laid out one.
Yes, ma'am. And that one's rezoning seventy six hundred. That is exactly the same concept plan is exactly what we got approval for.
Yeah.
So while we can't necessarily promise we'll implement this exact thing. Our track record shows we do what we follow through with. And and the developer is here with me and our development partners, we're committed to that. We've got that track record to implement that. Um I think this this respects the character. Of The village B. Um nodal criteria and connection
and that's what we're committed to do and we have plenty of conditions implementing that.
Yeah.
I mean both not questions. Well I mean i if that is integral to your approval, you could condition it that that the
Site plans submitted will be in substantial conformance with the conceptual list of that's been shown to you.
Very good.
And I think that g gives them enough leeway to make minor tweaks, but it's not going to be a wholesale
revision. I would want that condition.
Okay. Any other questions, Commissioner Weightman? No, I just
Yeah. I just want to say, you know, Mr. Landis, I very much appreciate you and your team and the time you spent with me working through this project. Um I share the same concerns as Commissioner Starkey. This is conceptual. And I'm still not confident
that the location of this project Well I appreciate the uniqueness of this project is is in line and conforming with what the village needs needs to be. So I'm stuck on on those two items. conceptual and if it's the right right project for for shaping this village and building this village out. I'm still I'm still hung up on those two points.
Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I um also I like I like the plan uh if this is not actual the actual plan. Um I would like it to be very close to that plan and and uh I give way to more buffering to our neighbors here uh if there's any kind of changes. Yes. So
Mr. Chairman, I mean w we would agree to tying the approval to substantial or compliance with this plan. Uh we would agree with the you know buffering or the transitional use of
In this area. I don't know why it's not anyway, up that area. Um To the east there. Um but that's I I I I think that's our our intent. I and that's our track that's been our track record on these, that we we implement what we put together. We've s uh uh Commissioner Weightman of you as you've mentioned, we spent a lot of time working with staff, uh meeting individually with you and putting together a a quality plan that really embodies the uh
the essence of what you're trying to accomplish in these villages these these cores of the village and true it's not exactly in that perfect idealized ring that was idealized along you know a number of years ago uh but as um Mr. Joel too mentioned that's that's the structure of the comprehensive plan for Village of Pasadena Hills. that it's it's it's molded together. And so with this is this is what we're bringing to you as a quality
project and we would ask for your support to be able to help implement it. Something that really brings about an integration of, you know, the life of a community. And those components to that.
And I don't think anyone's here that's doing Leo Commons. Um I think that's apartments and townhomes on the north side. But I'm not gonna vote for it in the way they showed it to me. So I I need to see something like this. Um I you know I'd love to see more more projects. product mix from these guys with duplexes, quadruplexes, brownstone like lockups and um he's getting
closer to the mix. You have You have um different so the so you have the three stories and then these are two story town homes?
Yes ma'am.
Then what are the little y and those are rear loaded. Yes.
So
they'll be very nice up on the front.
Yes.
Um what what are the little yellow ones?
The the yellows are the uh more traditional uh drive driveways in the front, and then the ba the the darker beige are the rear loaded. So we have, you know, a combination of product in there. And the intent is to have the the three story multifamily close around the village green and then it, you know, phase outward.
Right. And that's the right way to phase your dead center. Yes,
good.
So
I mean we we would be agreeable to a condition that ties in the intent of this, the grid pattern. Okay. That's what we plan to do.
And Bruce, I'd say that uh I think it'd be good if you met with the residents again this time, talk about the buffering they're looking for. Maybe it's fence, maybe it's vegetation. Maybe you do something for the guy we are butt uh butting up to with the apartments in the back. Maybe that's better than moving it, so uh with that that would be good. Um any other questions for Bruce? Commissioner Weightman.
So the stricter can you know the products that were just described 'Cause it's conceptual. Are you going on record that the products that the housing type you described that Commissioner Starkey's referring to is going to be mixed in with what we're seeing?
W we would agree to a a mix of at least two types. You know, I don't I don't know if we would go with the
Commissioner Starkey mission three types.
You got these three apartments. You have rear loading, which makes that very nice street there, and then you have front loaded. So I need all three.
Our conditions implement those three types. It covers the development of those three types.
Last condition, with a staff person present, I want you to meet with the residents about the buffering they want to see in Wort Road, whether it be vegetation, fence, whatever it may be. Okay. Work those details out.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, we're open.
That's with our staff person there, so we know they have the opportunity.
uh which road Yeah, which road
Road. Part Road.
All right. I don't have any more questions for him. Does anyone else?
Whose district is a
good idea. Well I I still want hang on before I do approval if you would. I want to have one more discussion. But I want to say thank you.
You were very responsive. Uh you made those connections. Only talking to the residents later on that clearly not the direction they wanted to go. And I haven't shifted gears so much but But going out there, driving down curly road has my concern. I'm gonna go back to that picture we had up there before to talk about before we go further, just because it's part of a overall discussion. But I wanna say you you've handled yourself greatly, your team as well. Uh I like the product, especially really, Commissioner Starkey, just glad you bring it up as far as the rear loaded.
Wasn't aware that was exactly going on there, but I like the way you've said it. Very nice. I just want to try to work to make sure it's going to fit with what's there and I want to have a discussion with us after that. So thank you. Yes, sir.
So that previous picture that was up? Let me go.
Wouldn't so as we as we look, you know, you got connected cities on one side of Curley, V O P to the other side. Um I've talked with our engineers and David Goldstein about this, but where it says Austri Prequ Peak Way, um, for what's been done, all the connections from there in all of Maratha go all the way up to the north. North of this property, coming across by prospect, where that's gonna get done.
Don't know when. But it's an issue when it does get done. Curly road being the six-lane road coming in. If people are gonna get to this site There's got to be some connectivity. There's nothing across the way. For those people to get across, there's nothing from Well these people are setting up to a cross, but you still need something going up and down Curly as well. So I don't know if it's I think this may be time for a joint meeting. With connected cities?
Because
they're not connected. They're not. And then the Commissioner Starkey, you ha you said it time and time again and again but what you like about this is the connectivity they've built in. But if you don't have these two getting together, then you're losing it. Uh to what goes above, you know, to the north of McCabe Road, That's a different item, but I'm really more concerned about what's going on here. Um Having said that, I don't know how the board feels to working these details out 'cause really to throw all those units on curly
road without having that infrastructure in place going up and down, it it is a concern of mine. Commissioner Weightman.
Chair, that that that's this is the driver of my concern of the shape and the build-out of this village. And especially with moving with this project being so far south down curly when the original plan is being a little bit further further north and you know what we've approved a little bit to the east, northeast. section of this corner this or southeast section of this corner along Cape I just Like I said, uh This
is a unique village and I want to make sure we're making the right decisions and I'm I'm a bit hesitant.
Yeah.
Okay. I sh I share the same concerns.
You know they're th each village is supposed to have a buff buffer on the edges that's a green space and I I'm not sure that anyone's ever showed me where that is. In any of these, right? That's it. That's a question for another day.
Well I think w road is actually I mean Curly's gonna be s extremely busy, all around is gonna be extremely busy, but I think
Work Road is gonna be it's gonna be able if if we do this right and and again and again, backing off their connections to Wort Road preserves them to have a quiet atmosphere in there. Yeah. But again, for those people to be able to get out and I'll give you an example. Up up up north my grandmother lived on a lake. It was a dirt road initially, finally got paved, but coming out to that road was a bear getting out. I mean to take a taking a left turn with traffic own was really difficult. Right turn's a little bit easier obviously but it w you could sometimes wait
there for a long time. So what I don't wanna do is put all these people in the same situation until we know what's going on With La Morata Boulevard. Prospect Road. Curly road going in. If you put all this extra density right there at this point in time without knowing what's gonna happen, Yeah, I think we have a lot of upset people.
Well don't forget that the mobility fees from this project can go towards put making curly six lane.
And that's good. But Is it gonna get done?
Prospect Blue's gonna get improvement also. But when? That's the key. Didn't I mean like this
before this comes in or after this comes in?
We can ask a road or pass a road to be paved and it takes five years, so you know. Internally we can do it quicker.
D O T is five percent.
Thank you.
Plant that money tree.
And again I think it's the project very worthwhile, but I I want to see something there that even these residents here, they they're not gonna be able to get out to go anywhere. By the golf cart, where are they going to drive on? Two lane road? They're gonna run over. Yeah. They try to go backwards? Even if they even they try to get Murata. They gotta go up curly roads.
Well there there's a golf cart lane on the road until they build it to six. There is there's a length. So it's wider than a regular road? Each side has a golf cart lane. Like but I like I tell them when I mean be no no no one's gonna wanna let their kid ride on that trail so they're on that golf cart lane that's in the road with traffic. Um so I wish we were building one of the multi-uses at the same time, but we're not. We're building two five foot And then
we're putting the golf cart traffic in the road, right?
So I see I see commission.
That is the cross section of connecting city.
So a quick question to that map that I asked for it to be pulled up. Is that an like an accurate aerial shot that's recent?
If the source is Pasco Mapper, I know we are in the process of updating that. Eric, do you know how old those aerials were from IT? Yeah, they're they're probably at least a year or two old. We can pull up Google Maps.
Let's pull if you if you could. I'd I'd just like to see the Google Maps to show exactly what's there on curly road. But again, has staff done any research 'cause I've asked about when these road things are gonna be improved, have we have we got a timeline on that yet?
First curly.
Yeah, we uh
If you could let's zoom zoom in on curly so we can see what exactly shows.
It's further south. Keep going east. North.
We've
gone the wrong way. Yeah.
Seth out. Yeah, he's he comes.
There you go.
So that's just a two lane row with no trail.
Uh cast.
Yes please. Good good evening, uh Commissioner. Nick Uren, your county engineer. Uh we do not have any projects, developer or um Pasco County, to widen or improve Curley Road at this time. Uh I will point out while your count plan says six lanes is the ultimate, the roundabouts on the corridor are only compatible with an ultimate four-lane typical section. And the predicted future traffic volumes on the quarter are also suggest that a four-lane road may be sufficient.
So as we're as we're re-evaluating how to make connections happen within the VOPH connected cities, communities, that conversation topic, the alignment for Curley Road and the number of through lanes that we need to ultimately provide for to make mobility happen for this part of Pasco County is a Important question that we hope to answer definitively.
All right, so in your opinion, how hard would it be to have them put a trail running north running north from their property up to Curley?
Are we asking now about the specific development on the
agenda?
right to Colonel
with their impact with their mobility impact.
I get my own credit.
So with the
I'd have to look into the right-of-way adequacy on the east side, north of their property line. Within their property frontage, they would have no problems because they would convey to us the ultimate right of way necessary for the pathway. North of their property I don't know the sufficiency of the right of way to accommodate the pathway at this time.
All right, let's um if if if the board's okay, I I would like to ask him because I know we've talked about it, but uh getting to this point where we don't have an answer, I th I'd like to ask them if he's looked at it, maybe he knows. Would that be okay? To bring Bruce Landis back up?
The commissioner can always ask a question. Even if public comment is closed. So
Okay. All right. So if you thank you, Nick. Bruce, do you come back up or your planners? So the so one of my concerns is again the accessibility and especially if we're talking about access up to the north. Um I know you've looked at other parcels trying to make things work and and I appreciate that trying to get that. Do you think there's a possibility you guys could build a trailway running from your property with credits uh to Curley road on your side of the property. On your side of the Curly Road.
Mm Mr. Chairman M I'd say yes. Um there is um On the west side, the uh Maratha development has dedicated rideway. You can see that clearly on the um on a Pasco maps, so there's plenty of right-of-way on the west side. Um of course in the frontage uh of ours, like I said, we're dedicating enough so that we have 130 now north of us if we were to keep it on our side. I still think even though there's fifty feet
out there, I think because the soils are so um pervious in that area we can up the west side. That's that's a snap. And and at that intersection of McCabe's a little bit of a little bit of There is coming from the West multi-use pathways, I think, on both sides of McCain. So we could easily
No. There are supposed to be, but there isn't.
Oh not even west? Yeah they're on the west side.
Oh only on the west.
It stops east. It stops east.
Yeah that's that's that's what I'm saying is we can connect yeah, we can connect to the connected cities pathways at at McCabe. Certainly on the west side of Curley. Very likely on the east side as well.
And willing to do that with mobility fee credits?
Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Commissioner Oakley make a motion. For approval with the conditions that we talked about earlier that Commissioner Starkey did.
We can't make the motion.
What he can.
Oh y oh I thought you I thought you were asking him to make the motion.
I'm asking him to word it the proper way where this project would be done
the right way.
Okay.
So so the motion would be move staff recommendation with the additional conditions um that the project will substantially comply. In their submissions of site plans with the conceptual drawings that were presented to at this hearing. Two would be that the applicant will meet with
the concerned residents on Wort Road about additional buffering on Wort Road prior to the submission of their first site plan. Um
Curly Road Trail. And the the developer will um construct a multi-use trail on Curly Road. Um
along their frontage and to continue to
Opposite side as well, providing with reimbursement for m mobility for credits.
Is that everything? Housing product type? And the that's housing product type is in in your motion as well, already. Well I think that's it's yeah,
it's the they're bound to the conceptual drawings and and they show the housing types. Okay.
That's a motion? That's a motion. Any further discussion? Uh I just want to say I I thought I saw Commissioner Bradford on, but I don't see him on now.
Commissioner Brafford, did you want to add? I'm sorry?
And also not through the military very example.
Okay, thank all right, thank you. All right, so we have a motion and a second, uh roll call vote.
District one, Commissioner Oakley.
Aye.
District two, Commissioner Weightman.
Apprehensively, but with respect to the V O P H board's recommendation, I'll say yes.
District three, Commissioner Starkey. Yes. District four, Commissioner Bradford.
All right.
District five, Chairman Mariano.
Motion passes.