An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code; Amending Section 303.5, Common Procedures, Preapplication Consultation; Section 305.1, Neighborhood Meeting, Intent and Purpose; Section 402.3, Use Permits, Conditional Uses; Section 525.3, C-1 Neighborhood Commercial District, Conditional Uses; Section 525.4, C-1 Neighborhood Commercial District, Special Exeption Uses; Section 526.3, C-2 General Commercial District, Conditional Uses; Section 907.3, Stacking Spaces And Drive-Through Facilities; Creating Section 1106, Car Wash Facilities Standards; Appendix A, Definitions; And Other Sections, As Necessary, For Internal Consistency; Providing For Applicability; Repealer; Providing For Severability; Inclusion Into The Land Development Code, And An Effective Date.
What the county recorded
Staff recommendation
Approve
DispositionApproved
Approved the item per Staff’s recommendation with the recommendation that all car washes shall be a Conditional Use and shall meet the design standards currently presented by Staff and that a special set of Conditional Use conditions, such as ones used for cell phone towers, be created for car washes.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Aug 8, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Aug 8, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
This case, across meetings
PEG-24-0336 in full →PEG-24-0336 was taken up 5 times between Jun 20, 2024 and Aug 8, 2024, continued 3 times — this is appearance 5.
- Jun 20, 2024PlanningPC9Continued
- Jul 9, 2024BoardP48▶Continued
- Jul 25, 2024PlanningPC7No disposition in the minutes
- Aug 6, 2024BoardP52▶Continued
- Aug 8, 2024PlanningPC18▶Approvedthis item
What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 19m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 63% of 369 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Good evening, Planning Commissioner. Uh Victoria Spitos, Planning Development and Economic Growth.
Terriel Suayolet. Oh. You're making a lot of noise. I can't hear you. You're being rude.
Got it. Shall I begin?
Okay, I think
we're quiet enough now. Okay. Good evening, uh Planning Commissioners. Um item PC eighteen is the long-awaited car wash facilities ordinance, the proposed car wash facilities ordinance. This is P D D twenty four over three three six. Um the PowerPoint that's gonna come up in a second. Um essentially this is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of Commissioner to mention. the Land Development Code in a number of uh sections to introduce uh new regulations that
will help uh provide
Regulatory guidance on the development of car washes in Pasco County. So our purpose here tonight is to establish new LDC standards for car wash facilities. This will be Land Development Code Amendment number 70.
And the reason why we're doing this tonight is uh to establish to understand the frequency and location of low employment generating car wash businesses on county arterials and collectors. And that has created a public concern such that the Board of County Commissioners directed the Planning, Development, Economic Growth Department, back then, Planning and Development Department, to develop new standards to regulate the frequency, location, and design of car wash. And so what I would like to do today or tonight is to discuss our journey in developing the proposed ordinance
by first talking about existing conditions and observations associated with car washes, then talk about the consistency in terms of what the comprehensive plan directs, and lastly to get into the actual proposed ordinance. And so we'll walk through each of those in that order. And before I I do that, I just want to say that we've had Extensive stakeholder input in the development of this ordinance. We have received a lot of feedback through multiple meetings over the course of the last uh six to seven months or so as we've developed this in hand with
our uh private sector partners, land use uh site planners, uh, land use attorneys, and uh and other interested parties. So we want to thank them for their participation. process. Uh so in terms of existing conditions
This is a map of the West Pasco Harbors area. It's indicating the frequency and location of car wash facilities. What we're passing out right now is a map, and what's on the board on either side of me are maps that show the frequency and location of car washes countywide. And as soon as Chris is done handing out those plans so you can see them up close and better. We'll turn these boards around and audience.
The motion to receive and
file.
Some models. Second.
Okay.
Uh but what you'll see on the maps that are being passed out as we return these around here on the sites, um we have twenty-five freestanding car wash facilities across the county. We have four freestanding car wash facilities within the cities, the various cities that are in the county, ten self-service car wash facilities, uh four hand wash service facilities, and twenty-nine gas stations. With ancillary uses that are car wash that have car washes. This amounts
to approximately seventy two different opportunities to wash the car within the county jurisdiction. So seventy two? Yeah, if I did the math right. In total. In total. Um I'm not sure the PowerPoint something's happened to the graph.
As we we think about the frequency and location of car washes within Pasco County, we need to be aware uh and aware of our county our cross-county thoroughfares and how many we actually have. Though the county is a really big place, um we actually don't have that many cross-county thoroughfares. We have from west to east just eleven north-south roads that will go. North to south. And that's kind of stretching it a little bit. US 19, Rowan, it's kind
of a stretch. It cooperates with US 19. Little also sort of cooperates with US 19. Starkey Boom Lake Alignment, Sun Lake Shady Hills Alignment, US 41, State Row 54, Old Pasco Alignment, Bruce B. Downs, Boyette McKenzie Alignment, Curly Meadow Point. Alignment and Parton Worse Bridge Alignment and US 301 Old Lakeland Highway. Those are cross-county roads. And then as we move from the south to the north, there's even fewer cross-county thoroughfares.
We have State Road 5456, State Row 54, the Zephyrhills Bypass Island County Road 54 alignment, the Rangeland Air and Cutoff Alignment, which actually continues. In a vision road scenario, we'll cross over 75 or cross under 75. Ridge Road and Overpass, though those two don't really line up, they're kind of on the same parallel. And then State Road 52 itself and County Line Road up by Hernando County. And
so we want to make sure that we uh temper what we moderate the frequency of certain low employment generating land uses on our highly valuable cross-county thoroughfares and the frontages that that they have.
So some of the observations that have come in from the public have been on the appearance of car washes. Generally, vacuum station space of the roadway and low screening, so the functionality of the site has been a key point that's been brought up. The expanse or space between the road and the building where the building is hidden. From the road because of the landscaping or the vacuum structures
themselves. And so this is part of the observations that we were looking at in terms of what's happening with car washes in our county. And then in terms of where we'd like to go, some best examples here, build buildings near to the roadway, the vacuum stations and the ancillary equipment and functions sort of screened and be either behind buildings or behind landscape.
So onto the consistency analysis then.
What we would like to talk about is a number of comprehensive plan policies. And the first one the first set is going to be Policy Flu 1810 and Policy ED 162, which are essentially the same. Both of these in the comprehensive plan note that the county shall, through the development review process, ensure adequate land and transportation capacity is available for present and future high-paying employment generating land uses. The development review process noted in the comprehensive plan begins with the regulatory framework of the Land Development Code.
The provisions of the Land Development Code establish the standards against which a review is conducted, the review process itself. Establishing the proposed standards for car washes in the land development code ensures adequate land and transportation capacity is available for employment-generating land uses because the draft provisions will regulate. And condition the design proximity and frequency of car washes on the transportation corridors. The Board of County Commissioners expressed desired desires the economic diversification and the preservation of employment generating
frontages of the county's transportation corridors. So proposing regulation for design and frequency, as well as establishing car washes as conditional uses, will enable the county to assess the impacts of such developments. and spread it out sufficiently to make space with on the generating users. Additionally, policy flu 143, which talks about transitional land uses, and policy flu 163, which is a parallel policy, are typically used to transition specific land uses between one another. They're used to ensure an appropriate mitigation
of impact using land development code standards, such as landscape buffers, noise mitigation measures, hours of operation, etc. Amendments before the Planning Commission today work to ensure an appropriate design relationship between car washers and surrounding land uses. In addition, the policy also works to manage redevelopment of areas no longer appropriate as viable residential areas. So if it's not going to be residential, what is it going to be? Commercial or industrial, mainly talking about commercial areas here. Properties
identified for commercial development or development are typically understood as not viable or appropriate for residential development alone. In understanding that a property is more appropriately designated as non-residential or at least mixed use. Policy flu 163 requires the management of said non-residential development or redevelopment. And so the proposed amendment seeks to manage the development or redevelopment of sites proposing car washes through the application of the conditional use process and the new standards to ensure a mitigation of impacts
in a reasonable change. Transition between uses. Policy flu 144 talks about residential compatibility, buffer standards between residential and non-residential land uses, and this intends to protect neighborhoods from the sensory intrusion of adjacent non-residential uses that may affect the long-term viability of those neighborhoods. Proposed amendments to the land development code will condition and limit the sensory intrusions car wash uses will have on surrounding development, whether it is residential. Or non-residential in scope, these of the neighboring uses. It is often the case
that car wash uses locate near to residential areas and are also adjacent to other non-residential development. And lastly, policy flu 1220, which talks about groundwater protection and waste disposal and discharge. This policy requires the county to monitor permit permit compliance for waste disposal andor discharge facilities. Facilities and activities. And so while the policy is typically associated with solid waste, wastewater would fall under this policy with uses that are wastewater dischargers, such as car washes, in
terms of general county wide application, so the proposed amendments seek to reinforce groundwater protection against car wash, wastewater, and car wash wastewater.
Um And so let's move into the actual proposed ordinance and we'll do a walkthrough of the of the ordinance. We'll start first with the definition of what we're actually talking about in the car wash facility standards, the proposed car wash facility standards. We're talking about freestanding car washes. So a freestanding car wash is an automotive vehicle service that includes a fully automated exterior vehicle washing that uses soft touch or touchless equipment
as vehicles move on the conveyor belt along a washing tunnel fitted with a series of synchronized machines and providing a minimum of three vacuum stations. That's the last uh piece of the definition is important so that we we can make distinctions between what a freestanding car wash is and what an ancillary car wash might be. The number of vacuum stations being the determining factor. Before we get into the new section 1106, there were some supporting amendments associated with
this new proposed ordinance. In Chapter 300, two amendments are proposed that will prohibit waiver of pre-application or pre-consultation meetings and will require car washes to have never. Meanings. That would make it consistent with other with the with with the practice of reviewing conditional use terms. In Chapter 400, we're aligning conditional use requirements with new zoning regulations, which bulleted under Chapter 500, are to make freestanding car washes
conditional uses in the C1 zone and to make ancillary car washes as special. Exceptions in the C1 zone, and lastly to make freestanding car washes conditional uses in the C2 zone. Uh small parentheses to the whole car wash conversation, there was an add-on amendment uh that is rather unrelated to the car washes, but it's in chapter nine hundred, which is to modify stacking requirements for drive-through facilities for restaurants. Essentially,
instead of counting the number of stacking spaces from a menu board, out eight spaces. You can now count according to the proposed amendment. uh counting spaces from the pickup weapon. And it's a little bit more site plan friendly uh to the uh to the restaurants and other users they have to count their uh drive through stacking. Close parentheses on Chapter and Hunt. So uh on to the new section 1106 car wash facilities. Yeah.
So instead of uh going line by line, I'm not gonna I've already kind of talked about the intent and purpose. Uh I'm going to do uh sort of summary recaps and then you can see the language on the on the overhead. And if we have any particular points that we want to discuss, we can always bring the the language up on the overhead and talk about them specifically. But if you recall, C1 and C2 will have car washes as a conditional use permit house. So So in the first sentence in paragraph A there, in MPUDs that have
C1 and C2 permitted uses identified, those MPUDs are now going to need a substantial modification to add car washes back into those MPUDs, which is essentially the same process as you might consider for a conditional use. uh in a Euclidean zone, um which is basically review, bring to Planning Commission, bring to the Board of County Commissioners for review and approval.
So to clarify Terry, um that means uh C three it will be permitted, it it won't be a conditional year it won't be prone permitted at all.
It's not permitted at all. They they're not permitted today.
Okay.
Moving through continuing to move through the paragraph, we have uh a prohibition in the EC Employment Center, IL, Industrial Light, IH, Industrial Happy, TC Town Center, future land use categories. Uh these these future land use categories uh are reserved for employment generating land uses. Some of them have a 15% support. Commercial allowance. This ordinance would remove the car wash from being part of that 15% so
that we can maximize the employment generating potential in those future land use categories and within that 50% support allowance. From a design perspective, auto-centric car washes are not as compatible with traditional neighborhood design or transit. Developments or the compact development area of a mixed-use trip reduction measure project because those types of ordinances, those types of design patterns, seek to enable pedestrian
and bicycle or non-vehicular, non-auto-centric mobility. And so having a car washing there would sort of disrupt the environment a little bit. And so there's a prohibition proposed in this paragraph. Additionally, there's a prohibition proposed in Connected City for the northern and southern innovation zones as well as for the community hub special planning area. And uh In
terms of the villages of Pasadena Hills, if you're a type two village it would be prohibit the car washes would be prohibited, but in a type one V O P H village you would be allowed one car wash per village. Again, in V OPH the intent is to uh promote pedestrian bike other non vehicular mobility. Uh and a car wash Likely disrupt the pattern. However, there's an allowance that's being made to uh enable car washes within the more
region-serving villages of the OPH. And then previously, specifically, approved car washes in MPUDs within this paragraph would be exempt from section 1106. So, for example, if you're in a type two village of V OPH that has an MPUD that has an allowance for a car, you would be exempt from this from these prohibitions.
Moving on, we get into paragraph B, which is limited applicability. These standards are more countywide applicable. So the previous paragraph talked about very specific areas of the county and what happens within them. Here, this is more countywide general. Paragraph B would influence paragraph A. So these would stack on top and provide support. Provided a key at the bottom of the page here because you'll note that in each of these uh provisions we
reference certain uh proposed code sections, right? 1106.3b, E, F1, and 1106.4B9. Uh the the key at the bottom tells you that what we're talking about here, the things that you're not exempt from, so to speak. would be following the noise ordinance, which is a decorative ordinance, or as might be limited by a conditional use perm. The hours of operations which this section does have a proposed time
frame, or as limited by conditional use permits.
On the on the are painted properly. So it's a basic property maintenance provision. And 1106.4B9 is basically follow Florida DEP USCPA regulations on wastewater and so on and so forth. But here we have a progression of exemptions that are proposed. All proposed new food standing car washes having an approved site plan or approved building permit prior to September 6th. Which is the anticipated approval date. I'll propose new freestanding car washes with pending site plan application
being complete prior to September 17th. So if you get, if you've gotten it in while we've been developing the ordinance or debating the ordinance, you would fall into B2. Existing freestanding car washes shall be subject to 1106 degree D and B. Grandfathering Clause. B4, all proposed freestanding car washes with the pending building permits submitted prior to the adoption of this ordinance shall be subject to sections D,
E, F1, and B9, level 6439. And then, of course, any approved MPUD with specific design, location, or site orientation standards for freestanding car. wash is self-be subject to noise hours of operation, property maintenance, and the DEP wastewater regulations, which are fairly standard and will not require subtential modification to the MPED. So just to keep moving through the ordinance, I've highlighted the high
points, a lot of language on the slide, but basically what uh the distance requirement is talking about is that it's regulating the frequency of car washes in the county. There's a 7,920-foot proximity regulation proposed uh which is measured as the crow flies. So how do you measure from the crow uh as the crow flies? You pick a point. Along the front property line, and you draw from that point 7,920 feet out from there in a complete circle, and that would uh illustrate
the zone in which another car wash would be able to locate. This is uh about 1.5 mile distance, uh, and it is based on the spacing requirements and the frequency of our materials and collectors within the comp within the company.
Additionally, pre-application meetings with the Planning and Development and Economic Growth Department are required for car washes that are going to be seeking car wash for conditional use permits or potential modifications to MVD. And car washes will have neighborhood meetings required.
For the mile and a half requirement, is there a mechanism for them to be able to you know, if let's say it's the site's one point four nine miles away, can they uh appeal that or Have some sort of extra consideration. Is there a mechanism for that?
Um
or is it a hard and fast rule that cannot be
accepted?
No.
No?
Yeah?
So she can't I think really
it's seven thousand nine hundred and twenty feet. So
if it's
seven
thousand nine hundred and nineteen feet then Yeah,
well, how did you say
that?
Well applicants always have the opportunity th they can nevertheless submit for a commission use permit if they so desire to stop them from applying. So then during the review process, if that review process determines if it's the pleasure of the of the Board of County Commissioners, for example, to lower that threshold, then that
is done. Why not just leave that to the judgment of the Board of County Commissioners. For for which? The distance requirement. For the distance requirement, because I'm with Derek. I think you're gonna get a lot of edge cases. This guy's seven thousand feet away. This guy's 1.48 miles away, why not just leave the distance to the judgment of the Board of County Commissioners when they decide to issue or not issue a conditional use? How did you come up
with a mile and a half? Is there some science based on that? It it's based on the separations of
the arterials and collectors with what does that have to do with where a car wash can be? Uh well so the industry. Industry standard was was once upon a time three mile distance. So car washes try to From themselves. From themselves. That's right. So then uh that that industry standard has fallen by the wayside mainly because technology has changed the way people interact with car washes. I guess memberships matter. Uh and so what we
determined was a manner we need to set up a benchmark to identify how far we should be separating these car washes and creating space on our coffee.
I think could I
separate coffee shops?
Well and you could probably do that through stating it as a as a guideline, you know, so with with the ability for the Planning Commissioner Oakley Board of County Commissioners to you know
see well I i it's a benchmark requirement. It's a benchmark requirement and it enables us to understand how uh what an appropriate distance that is defensible against comprehensive plan policy or in favor of comprehensive plan policy and the land development
code. Well I'm trying to figure out how that's defensible because I I've and I'm asking I'm the a I'm sorry Elizabeth's les left because I'm using the word defensible as is in court. How are you going to go and defend a mile and a half separation in court when my client sues you and says that that's an arbitrary and capricious decision as to the distance? But it's not arbitrary and capricious
because
Well then how is that?
The mile, so you have a minimum mile distance between an arterial to arterial, collector to collector. trying to preserve the frontages of these arterials and collectors, what you want to do is you want to space them out at least one mile. And if we go to 1.5 miles, we can have at least two arterials and two collectors before we see another car wash use along the core.
So The problem I got with all of this is where does this stop? Today it's car washes. I see a proliferation of drive-through coffee shops going on. There's White Duck Coffee, Dutch Brothers Coffee, Starbucks Coffee. They're going up everywhere, and I know, and I know what everybody's fear is. We all fear that these car washes, when the economy takes a dive, And maybe that's sooner than later, that a lot of these car
washes aren't going to make it. And we're going to be stuck with some blight on the landscape. Well, I think the same thing about all these coffee shops that are going up. And we see that with a lot of uses when there's a growth spurt. So, where does this stop? What about with marijuana dispensaries? Or what about with drugstores? I spent a big portion of my career. Finding sites for Walgreen drugstores. And you know where we chose to put them? Directly across the street from CVS. And you know where Publix likes to put its
stores? Directly across the street from Win Dixie. And and the Aldi in my neighborhood is directly across the street from Save from Publix. And similarly the Save a lot is across the street from that. So We're picking on car washes. And there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason. When I was finding sites for Walgreens They wouldn't locate within two miles of themselves. They don't want to cannibalize their own store. But there was nothing that
made them happier than to get in CBS's face and try to say take their business. No different than Mr. Bubbles car wash versus Mr. Car wash trying to get in and compete the American way with their business.
Lowe's versus Home Depot.
And Lowe's versus Home Depot. In fact in Newport Rich either where are they located? Directly across the street from each other. I think that so I mean you could carry this and I don't think you're gonna be able to defend that in a court. There are laws and there are cases on the books Where the courts have upheld separation distances, but those all have to do with something where there's some moral hazard or there's some proven ill to society. For instance, if we concentrate adult uses together, there tends
to be more prostitution arrests in the area. So then they would separate them by minimum distances so that we didn't create a red light district. Yeah. But I'm trying to find out where's the moral hazard and the social ill from people washing their car. Yes, I agree. There are going to be a bunch of these people that go out of business, and I think some of them made a very stupid investment. But this is the United States of America. And in America, I have the right to make as much money as I
want, and there's no law that says I can't lose as much. much money as I want. And I just can't I can't get behind a separation, a a separation, that is an absolutely arbitrary number. And I'm gonna tell you right now. And I'm going to give these to the county attorney because this is already going on all over the county. Court tells Lebanon, Tennessee, and by the way, it's a local developer, Bose Development, sued the city of Lebanon, Tennessee. Because the citizens
came into their planning commission and screamed, there's already three car washes down the street, we're oversaturated with car washes. Well guess what? The judge sided with Bo's development. It's going on in Madison, Wisconsin. I think it's a good idea. In the transit-oriented development that you brought up, you should go read that case.
But I think that's a good thing.
Don't get me wrong. I have no issue making these a conditional use. But we can't do things which are arbitrary and capricious and we can't target industries which don't have some ill on society. Right now, what we have is a lot of people whining on Facebook. 'Cause I watch it, I see the group every day, I follow it religiously. They're all whining about all the car washes every day. Yeah, but I haven't heard about the car washes causing
pollution. And these DEP rules for car wash recycling systems have been on the books for thirty or forty years now. That's not something new. That's a red herring you got in your ordinance. Okay. Where does it stop, Terry?
But
the next commission comes in and decides it doesn't like coffee shops. What about all these Uh Game of Skill Places, which is code for casino, they're popping up everywhere, right? Where they got the little duck game and the fishing game and the slot machines in there. What about those? Should those be every mile from each other, maybe half a mile from each other, or
should they be a block from each other? John, let's just let's just get the let's give Terry an opportunity to at least respond. Some of your concerns, and I
I think they're all valid concerns. I think one of the before I continue here, one of the major distinctions that I would draw between these this use and some of the other uses that have been mentioned is starting with economic development is a legitimate local government objective. Uh secondly, uh some of the other uses that have been mentioned are Tax revenue generators with sales tax and revenue to a great degree, especially if we're talking about retail, uh,
as well as uh greater employment generation. Perhaps the public's employees aren't get getting paid as much, but there's certainly more employees in the public's than there are in a car wash facility. Nevertheless, employment generating land use uh preservation along our major corridors is is a an important objective and we have to set the objective as a community and I think having a benchmark at least at a minimum to go by will help us understand
you know how do we how much of a tolerance we have for these uses that don't generate as much revenue, don't generate as much employment generation.
Well can't we set it up so that they can at least have a a resource to appeal the distance and there can be some judgment? I feel like
at the very least it should be a guideline.
Because if it's i if they're if they're two hundred feet off, you know, they should
If it's a conditional use. That means there's going to be a public hearing in front of the Planning Commission and in front of the Board of County Commissioners that can decide whether they think there's a I think the county attorney pointed out to me in that in our conditional use, one of the standards we can look at is whether or not there's a public need, right? Was that correct? Correct term, Elizabeth?
Yeah.
So There's no need to put a distance in because we have the right already under the code to determine whether there's a public need. And maybe in a more dense area there's more public need than there is in the northeast rural area for these things. But that at least we could look at them on a case-by-case basis rather than deciding that they must be a mile and a half as the way the crow flies. And then there's not even a consistent way to measure that because well I
could make measurement from that corner of the property line or that corner of the property line or the middle of the property line. Right. But at least that gives them the the right to look at them all on a case-by-case basis. Because I I can tell you, if you go and you Google this, there's a lot of articles out there, and we're not the only city or county that's struggling with this. But the problem is when each of these cities and counties has gone in and they've set some criteria
which is arbitrary, the courts have consistently ruled against them and I don't want to see us go down that road. I understand the concern.
I do understand the concern, but I don't want to see the county spending.
Yes, Mr. Chairman that our our director would would like to speak. He's been trying to speak for a little while now.
Okay, great. I'm sorry, I didn't see his hand over there.
Thank you.
I gotta hand
it to you. Um so I don't think it's a capricious provision. We received specific guidance from the Board of County Commissioners to regulate the frequency and the location and distancing of car washes. So we picked a reasonable, it's arbitrary, capricious, and reasonable to test. And it is reasonable. If somebody came up and they were five feet short, they could argue their case in front of the board. And get relief from that, but at a minimum
the distance should be the guideline. Thank you. So uh section eleven oh six point three, just to move through the ordinance and then we can have a quicker discussion. Eleven oh six point three talks begins with general design and use standards, so it talks about site layout. The main points of these provisions here are that we're looking to put vacuums, uh the where the backrooms and parking usually go together and car washes and the trash and other uh vertical appurtenances behind the building um so
that we can prioritize the building along the street so that the building appears more as a as a as a sign and has a presence along our main thoroughfares. And then uh no alternative standards 1063A through 1106.3A1 through five.
I think you fell asleep. Um not
working.
Yeah. So I don't think this. There we go. Okay. Um moving on into the setbacks discussion. The setbacks discussion is basically m imitating C2 zoning setbacks with the distinction that the front setback is twenty feet maximum. Again trying to bring the buildings forward to make it better. Presence to articulate at least a good design on our arterial streets. Oops. The side yard setback remains the same as what's in
the C2 zoning district, and the rear yard setback essentially stays the same at 30 feet. 10 feet when adjacent to commercial or industrial districts, but they would have had to put in a 10-foot buffer anyway. And then in terms of the buffering of Requirements, screen all your mechanics, make it look good on our thoroughfares. And then importantly, C2 is an allowance for the opening of the car wash. So as you move through the tunnel and the car comes out, is an allowance for the car wash
opening to face the right-of-way. And when that happens, there's ways that you can help screen the appearance. Of the inside of the tunnel from the right-of-way. This is an allowance basically for the car washes appear on corner lots.
Uh continuing on within the the site layout requirements, screening the vacuums and the pumps. Sometimes they have air pumps to uh pop your tires or air pumps to blow out the things that you have to vacuum in your car ultimately. Uh and then screening from residential areas a solid six foot high decorative masonry wall, quite along all sides as a site that's a lot of residential design district can use. D and E are the noise and hours of operations, uh no the noise condition or provision rather
comes out of the uh condition the quota instance. And then here's that F1 provision that we were talking about in the key as well. Basically, drive lanes and parking spaces shall be clearly delineated, so keep your painting markings clear and easy to follow and read. The rest of the slide is indicating additional standards, which talked about architectural controls. Basically, avoid the blink facades. Again, we want visual. interest along our major thoroughfares
uh make it all match. That's an important quality. So we give some uh allowances and provisions of what kind of use what kind of materials you can uh put together but make sure that you're following a a good color not a good color scheme a consistent color scheme on your on your building. Uh and if you're adding things to the site make sure that whatever you add over time matches altogether.
It's gonna be any ordinance. So the user I
I understand that, but so here's here's why I asked you who's gonna decide that. Chuck's been selling houses for a long time. I remember the first house my parents bought when I was a young kid here in the 1970s. And all the colors in there were harvest gold and green.
Beautiful.
It was beautiful, right? Then I moved into a house over in River Crossing in the nineteen nineties and all the colors in the house were mauve and peach and beck mic. Kitchen I think you were there Elizabeth back in those days. My kitchen cabinets were bright pink Yeah. Hideous. We were kids exactly.
So what's beautiful today is hideous tomorrow. But isn't it? So that's and the the problem is is who gets to decide what color goes with what color. I see archite people all of a sudden come up a with a new design, oh th those colors look great. I never thought of that before. Well we're gonna hire a county color consultant or who gets to decide that? Is that written into the Florida building code somewhere that the building official gonna figure that out or
the standards that um are presented here are actually grafted from our the big box ordinance that we have, Section Eleven O two. Uh the Section Eleven O two standards. So we've been we've been the This type of standard on our big boxes to great effect, and it's been pretty successful where our big boxes are now appearing within the comedy. So it'd be a similar exercise for car wash facilities as we would with the with the big box ordinance.
So understood, we get it, and tastes change over time. time, but this is not really an attempt to regulate someone's brain so much as it is to help them understand that we just want something that's matching within the built environment.
So you're looking more for consistency across the different structures on the property. Right. Not so much what colors or
beta tested a lot of this against car washes that are out in the community or proposals that we've seen and um for the most part, uh to a large degree, they've basic this ordinance would follow what they already do. Um but you can't guarantee that into the future. We've gotten kinda lucky. Until this point, so it's good to at least again create the benchmarks. Okay. I think one important uh I'm sorry, just to continue through the um additional standards here. Uh again, it's it's uh talking
about avoiding blank facades, making a match, having a clean appearance. Uh, one thing to keep in mind is number four on the slide: car wash tunnels, the interior mechanical equipment of the freestanding car wash tunnels.
This is basically an attempt so that you don't have that clear plexi glass that fronts onto our roadways and then after a time because so many cars have washed through the glass is all filmed up and whatnot. Um that's what this is, because this is talking about the vertical, this section of the proposed code is talking about the vertical uh elements of the of the building. And then lastly, the outdoor display merchandise and wastewater regulations, which is following the state uh state standards.
These are the chapter 300 changes that I mentioned at the very early part of our of the presentation. So pre-application consultations, the intent and purpose for a neighborhood meeting, freestanding car wash needs to have that. Here you see the change to section 402.3, which says that the proposal conditional use for a pre-standing car wash will not be located within the proximity distance we've been talking about.
The Chapter 500 changes to make pre-standing car wash conditional uses for both C1 and C2. That parentheses provision on the stacking space requirements for drive-throughs is on display here at section 907.3. Then the wrapping it up again, this was the definition that we talked about of what. freestyle car wash is and what the proposed ordinance is attempting to
regulate.
Yeah, well I was just gonna Well I know you want us to recommend approval. Yeah.
So
As my very intelligent business partner amply pointed out, and I can think of the same thing myself, I've been to a tunnel car wash where you park your car and the machine moves. doesn't pull you through on a chain or a conveyor belt. What about the ones with the brushes?
The
brushes?
What do you mean the brushes? You've never been in the car wash that has the spinning brushes? Right. They still make those. Why why only the ones that are soft touched? So I can go right around your ordinance today. By just simply having the machine move rather than having a chain or conveyor built or using the ones with the brushes.
The the I mean uh the brushes are they're not intending to scrape your car. But is is there
a legal definition of soft
touch?
All the soft touches we've seen is all the pressure. It's no brushes touching your car. It's brushless. Brushless.
Oh so you're saying the cut off touch and the touchless are the same term, basically.
What I'm saying is we probably ought to go if you're going to attempt to do this, one of which I do not support this, but if you're going to do this, then we might want to look at a definition that catches all, because there's a lot of car washes that don't meet this definition out there and they're not hard to find. Second one I have is Your justification for this ordinance, one of your justifications is these car washes are low Job generators. So if I go to one of the car washes where I put the 75 cents
in and get the spray wand, how many people does that employ? How come we're not going after those car washes?
They're everywhere.
And that could be a freestanding car wash facility.
In fact, if you were just gonna ban my tunnel car wash, I'd just go build one of those coin operated ones with the spray wand, 'cause it doesn't meet your definition and I could go build it and I don't have to get a conditional use. Yeah. It's true.
Uh Mr. Booty the the proliferation of car washes aren't the ones you're speaking about. Well that's
because
right
after you ban them then those will proliferate.
Well, um from personal experience they do a crummy job. And the case prefers a more modern.
I think I do a pretty good job when I go there and use it.
But the thing is if you've banned those things then they're People will move to the next best thing. They'll say, Well, I can't get the get the good car wash. I'll just go to the car wash that does the crappier job because that's all I have to go to. That's what's not banned.
Or maybe I'll just go do it in my front yard where I can let all the dirt and everything run off into the storm sewer and there's no regulation whatsoever. We're only regulating one and a half mile distance.
I understand that. I don't I'm gonna tell you right now, you're not gonna get any support out of me about having a minimum distance. I What I I think there's too many land use I mean not land use there's too many personal injury attorneys in town in fact there's probably six of them within spitting distance of my back door of my office. Not that I would spit on any of them, I like them all but um They're everywhere. I mean where d where does this stop? What about
the proliferation of chicken finger restaurants? Those are popping up everywhere too, aren't they? We think they're all gonna make it?
Well, I you know, I I see the rationale to some extent, you know, because w we all and and I what I really think that I would focus on if I if it were me is you know, you're talking about like the we w storage units always came into into into the conversation because there very little employment going on in a storage unit, especially the modern ones. And I think most most people think that there's
not a lot of good employment going on in A car wash either. So why why put a car wash? So many of 'em in your prime commercial areas.
Not necessarily disagreeing.
Yeah, I'll uh uh the only thing I'm thinking is there s needs to be an opportunity for anybody who wants to apply for car wash, if you don't meet the strict criteria, there needs to be a
way for them so we can hear them on a case by case
basis. So just a little background. I'm not trying to break my arm, pattern myself on the back, but the conditional use idea got proffered by me.
And
I'm fine with the conditional use. I've got no problem with that. We do that same thing with cell toppers. And as the County Attorney pointed out earlier in the meeting. Right now we have a set of
standards by which we decide whether or not to issue a conditional use. There are some additional standards that go with cell phone towers and I think it would be appropriate to have some additional standards that go with the car washes. I think one of the fears is that these car washes are going to go out of business and we're going to be left with a blight on the landscape and they're going to be filled with homeless people and there, you know, all kinds of crime and drugs and stuff going on in there. So like
for instance, if a cell tower's use is discontinued for a certain period of time, our code requires the removal of the cell tower. I personally would not have an objection to having a condition that said, hey, if your car wash use becomes discontinued for a certain amount of time or it becomes a public nuisance. then we can order its demolition. But I'd rather
do that than set an arbitrary number as to how close one can be to another. And I I just find that to be anti-competitive.
that gives
people
an exclusive territory. Uh when we give people an exclusive territory like a cable company or a power company Well we sell them the franchise area. If we're gonna give a car wash an exclusive trade territory, then let's auction off the mile and a half area for him and let the county make some money at it.
But what's gonna happen is that your little shitty car washes that you don't wash, excuse my language, that are the you know the I didn't
hear what you said.
The little city the little city car washes? The small city car washes. Those are gonna pop up every quarter mile in between the I mean that's so it's yeah, competition's gonna fill in the fill in the gap essentially w with that. So The less desirable ones that you don't want are gonna be what are gonna start to pop up. And then the hand car washes, the car washes that go out of business and there's three of these down the road from me. They had the former tunnel, that's out of business. Now it's just a hand wash. So you take your car in there and they
they hand wash it. So those are gonna continue to pop up everywhere. Yes.
Ultimately the government should be in the business of regulating the free markets. Yeah. I agree.
I mean the design standards and everything of this I I agree with and I think they're they're good and necessary, but yeah the a struggle with the distance to it.
I just to note though, um we're not just talking about the end of life of car washes. It's mostly about the proliferation of car washes during the lifespans. It's a lot of time that passes before the car wash finally terminates as a business. And in that time they can proliferate quite extensively and then they've taken up valuable frontages on our on our transportation court.
At some point, is there any way we can is there any way we can't make this make it a conditional use? Yeah, I think that we can address it at that point.
That's what I'm saying. And I I'm willing to today to support this as a conditional use, but I don't want to have an arbitrary distance We can look at them on a case by case.
And it opens up to a lot of litigation and we're seeing that throughout the country as well.
Okay. So so that that is what's being proposed. Um and the framework then is once you get your dis meet the distance and basically check your distance, then you have all these other things you have to do so you look good. Right. So that's kind of the
structure of work. And more public input, of course, because I'd rather know Yeah, I'd rather be able to tell my client I don't think I'd try to put a car wash there 'cause the county's not gonna see that as the you know, they're not really gonna wanna support that enthusiastically. It's too close to three other ones, you know. Yes. And as to have you know as to opposed to having a wall. I don't have to tell you how much trouble and money you have to go through to get w anything approved. You
know why? Why would you want to start something you can't finish?
I wouldn't either. And the same thing, I would recommend to a client and say, look, this is something that the B O C C really isn't wild about. There's a lot of car washes over there within two two square miles of each other if you want to pick a site over here, but I don't want to get somebody who's a mile and a quarter instead of a mile and a half.
And that's where the
conditional use comes in. I hundred percent agree. The one and the one thing I gotta tell ya Terry, when you write laws, you cannot possibly You can't catch every every possible scenario. And so a lot of times when you write a regulation, you know what you're doing? You're creating a roadmap for somebody to go around it. In fact, Jamie and I are pretty good like that.
We figure out how to do those things every day. But that's exactly what you do when you create something like that. So again, I have no issue doing these as a conditional use, but I don't want to do something that's arbitrary, that there's no science behind.
Or at the very least is easily attacked.
And and it's easily attacked and the problem that I got is this is going this is going we're not the only community doing this is going on all over the country. But Every place where they've tried to do this, the the courts come in and rule that that's arbitrary. You just can't set arbitrary standards and there's lots of it. It didn't take me long to Google. I got
Mm-hmm.
Handful of articles right here. It's not hard to find.
What that was interesting was even one of our local developers, Bose Development, has fought this battle.
The other thing that I personally can't get behind in this ordinance is I'm not willing to change the rules in the middle of the game. We have applicants who have spent tens of thousands of dollars to have MPUDs approved. They've followed the rules, they've had their public hearings, their day in front of the commission. And they got their entitlement. And now we're saying,
well, that entitlement really is an entitlement. We're gonna you gotta still come back to us again for that. The same thing. I've got a site plan approval, but I really don't have a site plan approval because now I'm adopting all these screening and buffering and architectural requirements. And you'll think about that if you'd invested in a car water. Terry, all
that was changed.
That was changed. They're they're exempt. It's very limited applicability to someone who already had a site plan approval. Um it's like hours of
operation.
It's it's hours of operation, it's noise, it's that water issue you pointed out, and there's one other thing. Um,
all right. Yeah.
I've got There's a car wash at the southwest corner behind McDonald's. I've 52 and 19. Fairly new one. Dirty Dog or something he calls himself.
He's about to
operate twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and by the way a lot of his customers are our sheriff's deputies who are keeping very nice clean cars there. Who's he harmin'? Who's where's the noise pollution? Who's being affected by the noise if there's actually any noise that comes from that car wash? He's backed up to the Werner Boy Salt Springs Park. a McDonald's and US nineteen. So I I've even
got some issues with the whole hours of operation. Yeah, I understand. If they want to come in in a conditional use and they're next to a residential neighborhood, well we can add hours of operation. I'm out here next to I-75 behind an industrial park. Who cares if they want to be 24 cents?
Well the other thing to note too is the attached car washes don't have that limitation. So if you're attached to a gas station you can run twenty four hours a day, no problem. Right. No noise and that could be nice to a neighborhood. So what are your thoughts on that carrying
to one?
Gary, what are your thoughts on the those items?
Yeah.
The hours of operation, as I noted earlier, is regulated by this section or as limited by conditional use.
So I don't have a problem regulating them on a case-by-case basis. I just hate to say, this guy's been in business. In fact, there's a car wash I can think of that's just south of this, along 19, along the west side of 19. Has car wash been there since the 1980s? He's got some big sail cloths up there.
There's nobody who lives behind there either. He's been there since the 1980s and now all of a sudden we're gonna come in and change the rules of the game. What did he do? He didn't do anything. He's been there, he's paid his taxes. He's been a good neighbor, he he's rejuvenated his car wash, put up the nice modern sail cloth shade structures and everything, and now all of a sudden Big Brother's gonna come along and decides he should change his hours because somebody on Facebook doesn't like the car wash
down the road. But
yes, but
Right, this is all about this ordinance is about new car washes, new freestanding car washes
you're applying the hours of operation to existing car washes, right? That's
paragraph three that I had struck that or then the numbering was was messed up. That was what that why I struck that. Okay. We didn't have he didn't even have a chance to really talk about the strap. He wanted to get it out to you all as quickly as possible. That's why I struck that.
Okay, so it's not going to
apply to the
Well I
mean
that was just coming from my opinion.
I didn't have enough time to v verify the the suggestion that Elizabeth was making so the the more conservative approach would be to present it. Right. If there's a discussion that you know we can remove
we should remove three,
we can remove.
True, and if you do want to talk about hours of operation in terms of What's around you, that's a legitimate consideration for staff, you know, for a policy direction you to bring to the board and get feedback on based upon who your next door neighbor is.
I like I
said,
if we wanted to approve these by conditional usage, then we can evaluate them by case on a case by case basis. And if there needs to be a restriction on their operating hours to protect the an adjacent neighborhood from noise, I think that's
And it gives the public a chance to make count on that.
Absolutely.
And hours of operation are typical for conditional use standards in some situations, Danace? Yeah.
Absolutely, yes. They are. Um I just um if the if this is a conditional use and that's section E stays the same, I don't think that we can make changes within the conditional use to the hours of operation. Okay. Because it's kind of like weighting a code requirement, which we can't do in our in a
right, and I I right and I I had some concerns too about other Uh under A, Terry, that last sentence. of A under applicability because basically you're saying then that these people get a pass to everything in section eleven oh six which would include the noise ordinance you create a conflict. So There that the the the that very last bit should stop what should stop at co repress.
Yeah.
That that they shall not be prohibited. That they they've gotten their approvals and a specific approval as part of of already in this village of whatever shall not be prohibited. And then it then you get rid of shall not be shall the be subject to this section. That that goes away because if you look under further down, that is taken care of when you talk about number five. Because all of those folks, you know, already have gotten that specific approval and design standard. Because if you if you have that very broad n none of eleven
oh six then you have an internal inconsistency in your land of element code. Because now they can do on-site storage, um out and out outside storage, all those things that you would have prohibited over in C two now come into question.
But what it does.
But I mean that
that's just something that I noticed
today sitting
here. But I guess could you look look and looking at it from the opposite direction. Just because you don't have to follow section eleven oh six doesn't mean that the other sections are
I don't I don't I don't think the conflict is a good thing to create. i in that sense. So it should just have it be straightforward, you know. It would make I would think make the most sense because there's no need to have Then you're actually coming back and five is addressing it as well. So it's just internally inconsistent within that one section. So you're saying
that the sentence should How the how should the sentence
should end shall not be prohibited. Because they've
already gotten their approval.
Right, it should it should say shall not be prohibited, period. Because you're referring to the actual prior approvals that were given to those specific car washes within what now have become prohibited areas. Okay? It's easy fix, it's just for clarity. And no one else up here picked up on it but I did. So
And and that's consistent too with what Cynthia is concerned about in other people.
Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, I think that's the danger of codifying some of these things, you know, the distance and um it's much better to be con you know, there could be some standards but it it's much better contained within a conditional use that can be modified on a case by case basis. I think by codifying some of this stuff you open yourself up to litigation that we probably don't need to be opening ourselves up.
Terry I have a question. It's not not necessarily an argument, a question. The
Maybe Denise I didn't go get to go check this. So if I'm in a C2 district, what's the minimum setback?
Typically in a C two district the minimum setback is twenty feet.
Oh it's twenty. Okay, so that aligns with the ordinance and what Terry is proposing is to put the building right at the front setback line, which forces all of the other stuff behind the building. Okay.
Yeah in this case the the ordinance speaks to a maximum.
Yeah I I understand. Yeah. I caught that clever.
S have you spoken with the Sheriff's Department about this?
So in fact I think Denise it was maybe you that told me this that the sheriff has videos of where some of the destitute and homeless population of the county likes to break into the vacuums that the car washes because sometimes people suck up pennies and dimes and that kind of stuff. So if we've now got a hidden behind the building, is there more opportunity for that to go on?
I think we should just leave some loose change on the ground. That would be easier, you know.
Well in Canada they say you should leave your keys in the car so that it can be
stolen
much
easier without doing more damage to them. I I don't know, I I'm not gonna comment on how what the criminology is in breaking into vacuum pumps and whatnot. If they're doing them now with the pumps facing the street, they're probably gonna do them wherever the pumps are vacuuming.
Personally I like the idea of the building being in front. I think it makes the it's a good thing you don't have to look at and break it.
Presumably the cameras there too. I understand. I mean I think there's a lot of scenarios here. I think there's definitely uh an over proliferation of car washes and I think there's some design standards needed and I and I like the conditional use idea too. Um I know we've kind of beat this to death here and I know there's a couple of people here to talk. Do we wanna let them talk first and
Yeah.
I mean, so we can keep things moving. So I big the big money, yeah. Okay. And K Terry are you all done then for your part?
Well uh I think my last slide was simply to find the proposed amendment consistently with the comprehensive plan and to note that the the schedule the public hearing schedule would be September third for the Board of County Commissioners to look at the proposed ordinance and the second meeting would be the adoption on September seventeenth. Which is the date that's in the ordinance.
Thank you. Thanks Terry and started throw tomatoes at you. Good work. Good work.
Okay, uh I think we have some people in the audience that are here on this issue.
Who would like to be first?
Uh good evening, Cynthia Speidel. I'm with Stern's Weaver Miller at 401 East Jackson Street in Tampa and I have been sworn. And I'm here. I re our firm represents the Circle K MPD that was recently approved. Um On the corner of it's the south excuse me, southeast intersection of New State Road 52, Clinton Avenue and Prospect. It did not come before you because it's in the villages of Pasadena Hills, village type two. So um a
I'm just here to reserve uh comment on this latest draft. So a a version was circulated on July twenty ninth, which I thought I would be speaking to today, but then Luckily, I checked last minute just to make sure that nothing was changed, and I saw that the version that was then posted online was different than the version that was distributed to the development community. So a lot of us were kind of caught off guard by that. I panicked. We went through it during lunch. I think it's okay, but
I'm not 100% sure. But I don't want to slow it down if you're going to make a motion on it. I'd rather just reserve. and come back to the Board of County Commissioners just to make sure my team has fully vetted it. So um but getting back to if you guys can pull up that section A again. I read section A specific to use and then section B specific to design standards. So I like the way that section was read because in my opinion it was specific to use. So we would just want to make sure that
the because the circle K is in a village type two, that the use is not prohibited. Because that's what the approval was. And then section B um goes into one oh four actually when it talks about no you gotta go back up again.
Oh up one more. So yeah, this is it right here the limited applicability. Um so I went back through it and I checked that it's the DEF1 and 4B9, which was the hours of operation, which uh the circle K is okay with. I had double checked that because that was in a prior version. um and then the parking, striping or whatever it has to be clearly delineated. And then the B nine was a wastewater. So but I'm happy to answer any of your questions because I know there was a lot of really good conversations.
So if there's anything that you know, if you wanted to ask, I'm I'm also happy to provide input.
Thank you.
This is actually a question for I should have asked this when Terry was up here, um on that language. Shall it say 'cause we're trying to grandfather f people that have had applications in prior to September seventeenth, correct? So shall it say that um shall only be subject to sections D E F. Is that correct? Because by saying they should be subject to those sections, you're just not you're not
saying that they shouldn't be subject to the other sections, the new ones.
Right. So they shall be subject to those sections, but everybody's subject to this section. So should it only should it say shall only be subject?
I think that that's fine for
clarity. I that's and then I have a question about that. What is what does it mean deemed complete?
Does that mean we've reviewed your application and staff has issued its notice of intent to improve or does that mean you've submitted a application that's been deemed complete for content.
That's used that word deemed complete is used elsewhere in the L D C. Maybe it's fine somewhere. I don't know, maybe Brad could explain that.
Should have lost when you had the chance, Brad. Wha while Brad's walking up, I'd say the item
up every three hours.
Uh Matt, go ahead. Yeah, I said while I mean Brad got here now, but I'll say on item four we we say submitted prior to adoption of this ordinance. But we say September seventeenth in the other and items one and two, while we just put the date in four as well. Oh yeah.
Okay, Brand. Did you
answer your question?
You're on. No. No, no, we still need your answer.
Uh so uh Brad Tippen, uh I it's too late, I don't even know who I work for anymore. Um Playing Development, Economic Growth. Uh deemed complete the way we use it, when we talk about an application is deemed complete, it means it has all of the items necessary to begin a review.
So co content. Content for mutation. We just add that. That's that's how we typically use it that
Okay. You're off a hook me. Go sit down for another three hours. We'll get back to you.
Maybe a moot point I didn't make
Alan Altman [address removed] and hopefully I am the last speaker in your day. A very long day. And I really only came up here to say thank you uh for your service having uh not sat on Planning Commission but on many other boards over the years. I know that as volunteers you all get beat on and harassed and you sat here a long time today. And so I just wanted to say thank you. We've been over two years uh in the process for the Circle K that Cynthia spoke
about. And I just wanna be uh uh clear that I'd like for you all to go ahead and vote and move this ahead today. Um and that we are assured that our PUD, which was approved by the VOPH Planning Board in March and approved by the BOCC in April, is intact and that we can move ahead. There were a couple of comments about the community meeting. I will tell you that we did a community meeting and didn't have
a single person show up. in opposition and in fact had comments from people wanting to know when it could be installed and be ready. Uh my project is on Highway 52 at Prospect Road and there is one car wash today. On Highway fifty two. from the Suncoast Parkway all the way to the Pope County Line. One. On a road that DOT says is now uh estimated by the end of this year to be at 43,700
cars a day. So the project's needed, the residents desperately want it, and uh I appreciate your all's time and consideration and would encourage us to go ahead and move forward today so that maybe I can get to a closing table after two
and a half years. Thank
you all.
Only two and a half years. I c I can't believe he can't believe he did it so quickly. It doesn't seem that way when they talk with my hand at the bill as much. Well you know the last person to speak it's our tradition that they buy dinner. Special over again.
Okay.
It it might it might be useful once again, I'll repeat this, but Yeah, you can find it consistent or inconsistent. Um but you can create recommend all sorts of ways to make it better. That that sort of thing, you know, and and and still keep it moving forward if if you know, if it should be moving for I know that there's some staff that's under a a lot of pressure to bring this
to the point.
Yeah.
Well I I like the idea of the cont conditional use direction with some guidelines for that, as opposed to codifying all of these details in the ordinance itself. I
think you stipulated that.
Didn't you say that that was the way it was?
You you can do that, but what I'm saying what you're saying is that You can you can have a laundry list of conditional use things that we typically do that Denise is familiar with those conditions that are applied on a case by case basis and in doing so you could have something like the conditional use shall be conditioned to include but maybe but not limited to hours of operation if necessary. You can create that verbiage and take out the extreme detail and you're still giving guidance for staff to go, okay, it's a additional use in one by case by case basis.
Including radius.
Well I mean, yeah, whatever. But but you know, to John's point, you don't want to have a bunch of a bunch of arbitrary stuff. You want things that actually make sense in the industry, make sense for the the public, you know, purpose and need of that, you know,
the industry which changes it on a day-to-day basis.
Right.
Okay.
So let's move this. How do we make that into a motion?
Well, do you want to put the language back up again and just go through and and make your suggestions as to things that you think are too detailed for the ordinance itself, if you just the conditional use criteria on a case by case basis and we can make notations of that? I'll just try to make this
simple. Please Move to recommend to the B O C
Our washes. Whether they be tunnels, coin operated, hand washes, it's a car wash, it's a car wash, it's a car wash. That all car washes
be approved by conditional use.
Is that including attached to gas stations in the
all car washes. That way I'm not discriminating against one car wash versus another car wash versus another 'cause I'm gonna tell you right now when you try to write that definition, I'll figure out a way to go around it. I'm really good at that.
In all transparency with conversations we've had in-house was basically did the board intend for all car washes or just a particular business model?
So we'd really So my thinking on that, my rationale on that is
The reason people build car washes is because they can sell a membership. And they can hold land and they can do thanks to our federal tax policy, we can take bonus depreciation on the equipment. Well that's no different if I got coin operating car wash than it is whether it's a tunnel operating car wash. And I could make one with all kinds of fancy neon lights and I could probably figure out how to sell pizzas and hamburger
at the same time out of place. So, car washes.
And then should there be within that condition to be guideline?
I think That.
If the use is discontinued
for a certain minimum of time and we can leave that to discretion of the board, whether that be six months or twelve months or thirty-six months. that you need to remove that use. Our fear of these car washes is that we're gonna end up with a bunch of vacant car wash tunnels with very little potential for adaptive reuse. So make them take it down.
I think that's as simple as you can make a motion. I can sit here and try to let the staff know you what it's gonna do.
And you're keeping all the design standards that are in here for
the
other side.
I'm fine with all I'm fine with all the staff's proposed design standards. I'd recommend that the board adopt those. The board a future board may have to come back and revisit 'em. I don't know. Try it.
What about the spacing?
I am not in support, I absolutely am not in support of the spacing and my if you do every car wash as a conditional use, that leaves it up to the board to decide whether the spacing is adequate, whether it be a mile, five miles, or a quarter mile.
And I don't run the risk of Mr Car wash coming down here and saying, Well, you've given him a mile and a half exclusive trade area.
And no restriction to hours of operation?
You can address all of those things in the conditional use. I think we should just make this as simple as possible. It was just like the the invasive species. We took what was a proposal that was forty something pages and we narrowed it down to one paragraph. And I think we could do the same with the car washes. Agreed? That's my motion.
All right, do I have a second?
I'll second that.
And that's emotion for consistency as as well.
Could we recap the motion?
She's like
emotional.
I move to recommend to the Board of County Commissioners that all car washes shall be a conditional use and shall meet the design standards as currently presented by staff.
That's it. Nothing more, nothing.
You're not gonna talk about the removal?
And and that that a special set of conditional use conditions similar to like those that we use for cell phone towers be created for car washes. And the ordinance is consistent with the comprehensive plan?
Don't forget that part.
What about the what about the rem the you talking about the removal if they're not in use for six months or whatever the time? That's the set
of conditions I'm referring to.
Okay.
In addition to the hours of operation and spacing and all the time.
As appropriate. Did you get that?
Right.
Is it clear enough?
Well one of the commissioners is sitting here, she's heard our recommendation.
And then she'll have to decide whether she likes it or she doesn't.
Okay, we got a motion, we got a second further discussion. All in favor? Signified by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like signed. Very good. All right.
I have