An Ordinance By The Pasco County Board Of County Commissioners Amending The Pasco County Land Development Code; Section 522.9 Connected City Master Planned Unit Development District; Section 901 Infrastructure Standards; Section 901.1 Transportation Corridor Spacing; Section 901.6 Street Design And Dedication Requirements; Section 901.7 Bicycle Facilities; Section 901.8 Pedestrian Facilities; Appendix A Definitions; And Other Sections, As Necessary, For Internal Consistency; Providing For Applicability; Repealer; Providing For Severability; Inclusion Into The Land Development Code, And An Effective Date.

1:43:06For item PC7, you will also see cities and local planning for this item. It's PE 26002 and ordinance by the Pasco County Burning County Commissioners. Amending the Pasco County Land Development Code is Section 522.9, Connected City Master Plan Unit Development District, Section 901, Infrastructure Standards, Section 901, Clinic One, Transportation Corridor Facing. Section 901.6 street design identification requirements, Section 901.7 Bicycle Facilities, Section 901.8,

1:43:36pedestrian facilities, appendix A definitions, and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability repealer, providing for several abilities using inclusion into the Pasco County Land Development Code, and an effective date for design by staff.

1:43:53Again.

1:43:58Do

1:43:58you guys hear me okay? Yeah. Mike O, Planning Development, Economic Bird. Here again to present PE 26002 infrastructure standards, Playingable and Code Amendment.

1:44:17Okay, so really quickly, the intent of this ordinance update is to update sort of portion of the club for internal consistency, consolidating sections 901.7 and 901.8 into a comprehensive section 901.7. Providing enhanced standards for location and connectivity for our bicycle and PED network. And we hope that these changes will strengthen the company's position to require land development projects to construct segments of our non-motorized transportation network.

1:44:48So as a recap from our last uh discussion on this item, there was concerns about requiring a multi-use pay trail exclusively on the south or east side. The general thought was that this policy was too rigid and raised several concerns. Including potential impact on property values, challenges on diagonal roads, conflicts with existing alignments. And there would remain a need for pedestrians to cross the street to get from the sidewalk to a trail. So to resolve

1:45:18these issues, we are proposing a 10-foot multi-use page trail on both sides of arterial and collector roads. This approach will simplify administration, create a symmetrical network, and support future updates to the county's typical sessions.

1:45:38Most of the other uh conversations we had was that what we were proposing didn't exempt rural future land use categories, and that section 901.7 and 901.8 as they exist today currently do exempt anything below REST III. So to address those concerns, we've written in language to exempt agricultural, agricultural rural, residential future land use from the requirements of this section, except where the

1:46:08zoning is an MPUD, and in that case, the county would retain the right to negotiate these facilities.

1:46:18All right, lastly, we discussed the payment and loot option. There was some sentiment that that option should model the Penells County's system, which allows developers to build where the sidewalk is needed rather than putting it on their site or advice to the site. So what we are proposing with our payment and loo option functions similarly in situations where it's not feasible to construct a sidewalk or a multi-use path. or where there's already a path programmed

1:46:48in the CIP. Um The developer can pay the county and then we can construct that path somewhere else that provides a benefit to the fee payer. I did review Pinellas County's land development code for this particular process. I found one section in their code that spoke to this. It was applicable to subdivisions. And it explicitly stated that they can provide a sidewalk in other locations to overcome physical

1:47:19constraints where there is a benefit to the development. I didn't find in their land development code anywhere else where they have a payment loo option or an option to build it the sidewalk somewhere else. I even called Penells County and they confirmed that there was nothing else written in their land development code that touched on this process.

1:47:42All right, so overall summary of our changes. We're making some updates for internal consistency. So 522.9 and 901.6. We're updating cross-references. So everywhere the code says 901.7 and 901.8, we're updating that to the 901.7. Section 901.1, transportation corridors facing. We are updating that to reference the current resolution that's 19-136. and indicating that we will be placing the county typical sections in

1:48:13our development review manual, which we hope will make them easier to find. We're also adding some clarifying language to that section, which states that bicycle and pedestrian requirements, as stated in 901.7.

1:48:27are applicable to arterial and collector road designs.

1:48:33Oh, and we're updating 901.6 street design dedication requirements. This is a minor update to allow friction course as an allowable road construction material.

1:48:44And a broad summary of our changes to the bike pad. Uh Land Development Code. Currently, 917 and 918 are applicable to Res 3 future land use or higher. On subdivision collector roads, they had to provide either a bike lane or a 12-foot multi-use path. Pedestrian facilities are required on all street types except for alleys. On collector and arterial, five foot sidewalks are required and four foot sidewalks on all other streets. What we're proposing is

1:49:15a land development code that would be applicable to all development sites except for agricultural, agricultural rule, residential one, future land use, and it varies by street type. So again, we're proposing 10-foot multi-use page trails on both sides of our trail and collector roads. five foot sidewalks on one side and eight foot side or multi-use paid trails on the other side of a subdivision collector and five foot sidewalks on residential roads.

1:49:43In addition, we're proposing pedestrian circulation and connectivity language. So this language would require all on-site uses to be linked via sidewalks. They have to connect to the external pedestrian and bicycle network. All principal structures have to be connected to each other. And parking lots with 100 more spaces have to provide a safe direct path from the parking lot to the building entrances. A little later in our process in writing this code, we got some feedback that this particular section

1:50:13for the parking lots should require frequency requirements that specify how often sidewalks should be provided within the parking area. We're currently working on adding that into our drafts and we plan on Adding it to the drop that we will bring to the Board of County Commissioners.

1:50:32Oh, and then Our payment in lieu. So as I mentioned previously, we're requiring or providing a payment in lieu of construction option. So again, where it's not feasible to build a sidewalk or multi-use path, applicants can pay in lieu. Um and And we can use that money to build a sidewalk. As long as it benefits the P pair.

1:50:57This was our overall vision for the multimodal network we'd like to achieve.

1:51:04And the recommendation is that find the proposed amendments consistent with the comprehensive plan. And I'm here to answer your questions.

1:51:12Very useful. B for payment in lieu.

1:51:17I think the plan right now is to have the developer provide a cost estimate. That cost estimate would then be reviewed by the county attorney who would give a snip of approval. The county attorney.

1:51:34The county general review, I

1:51:35think. Uh

1:51:37he would give the stamp of approval and then that would be the cost that we would use. And We like that method because it can accommodate different widths and construction materials that might have otherwise been required by the code.

1:51:51Can I ask who did you speak with at Penelas County?

1:51:57D I don't recall her name.

1:52:03But if there's a process that they're using Penellas County that's

1:52:07I wouldn't. Tell you to reach out to Gene Cross and Okay. Use the development review manager. Okay.

1:52:18And it is their common policy that if you cannot build the sidewalk adjacent to your site, then you will go build the same length of sidewalk elsewhere where they need it.

1:52:29And uh What I'm saying is that in their land development code, I didn't find any supporting language for that. I'm just saying

1:52:35that's their policy and that's what they do. I've had it happen on multiple projects.

1:52:40Understood.

1:52:42Reason that I suggested that here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a payment in lieu. In fact, I've been behind the scenes lobbying for a payment in lieu for many years because my clients

1:52:54have built a lot of sidewalks to nowhere.

1:52:59The difference is this.

1:53:03My client can build a sidewalk. Probably half the price you can build one. And they can do it twice as fast. We want sidewalks, we want production. I don't need this to sound insulting. I do understand there's a process David for Demonstrating that you're taking over what you need for a real But the citizens in Shady Hills are screaming, We need a road, we need a road. And we're telling them,

1:53:33Yeah, hold on for six or seven years, you'll get a road.

1:53:38If you let the developer go build a sidewalk. Before you give him his C O, you'll have the sidewalk today. Not seven years from now, not when you get around to it, not when it's on somebody's CIP. Not when there's seven years of inflation on the money that was paid in. Exactly. you'll get more sidewalks quicker. I'm not opposed to payment in lieu at all. I just hope that you would keep Such a such an option open. as

1:54:08a way to satisfy building a sidewalk regulation so that we can actually have sidewalks to somewhere and have them today, not 10 years from now. But that's all. Otherwise I'm happy with this. Can you flip back

1:54:20to the previous slide? The

1:54:22plug

1:54:22of the blocking.

1:54:27Okay. So that's the big difference is we we talked about the east and the south, I think, so now this is just Slowly the difference in working on both sides everywhere.

1:54:36Yeah.

1:54:39Any other questions or comments?

1:54:42Maybe it's one or two more slides. Yes one? Yes.

1:54:48So where's the Twelve foot multi-use pathco?

1:54:53That's the piece that we're changing. So we were proposing a 12-foot multi-use path on one side, the south of the east side, and we've changed it to propose a 10-foot path on the side.

1:55:04What it was. Correct. Right column is okay. Yeah.

1:55:11Supervise the diagram again.

1:55:16So on your subdivision collectors it it actu it actually isn't Symmetrical, right? So it's five foot on one, eight on the other?

1:55:24Yes.

1:55:25And that's on is that the same situation it's on the west and north sides where it's five feet and then

1:55:32No, in that particular section, the road language say put it on one side, but if there's an existing alignment, you have to.

1:55:41The question about the graphic. For the vision roads, it says You want a 10-foot multi-use path on each side. It says five foot marked bicycle lane on roads forty miles an hour or less. Does that mean you're gonna have a multi use path and a bike lane, or if it's a forty mile an hour or less road, it'll just be the bike lane?

1:56:01It means we have both, but if it's a 40 mile per hour or less road, it would be

1:56:05marked as a bike lane.

1:56:11Just say I'm

1:56:14not supportive of bike lanes. Pretty sure one of the

1:56:17commissioners will give you

1:56:21Give you some pushback about bike lanes. I call them suicide lanes.

1:56:27Yeah.

1:56:27As soon as these things were invented and people could start texting and driving. Riding your bicycle in a bike lane is a death wish.

1:56:36Well, I've been advocating that we start calling them by claims. Nobody ever listens to me.

1:56:43Because to to me they basically function as the road shoulder. And I don't know why we keep calling them Viklanes because they're effectively The breakdown lane. I mean when your car You need a place when your car is broken down, you don't want people stopping in the middle of the travel lane. Disagree with you. So you need a place for people to pull to the side and if that is Maybe we just need to stop calling them bike lanes and calling them the roadway shoulder. Good, good. That's the problem when you say eliminate the bike lane

1:57:14is you're eliminating The road was shoulder too.

1:57:17That's the problem. The only thing that makes it a bike lane is that little diamond stripe.

1:57:23We should start calling it shoulder slash bike lane, but but B I want a place to break down when my if if my car is broken down. I don't want to be stuck in the middle of the travel lane. So Let's not forget about the people driving the cars too.

1:57:44Yeah, but then it's about the multi-use path. That seems to me you

1:57:47could ride a bike on that.

1:57:48Yeah, pretty much. That's why it's called multi-use.

1:57:50But I'm saying is is that even if it is usable as a bike lane, it's also usable as the and that's what the code makes it clearer is that that it also function as the shoulder. We're not gonna require you to go bike lane and a shoulder. They're the same thing. The irony of this is, is you lose that on a road 40 miles an hour or above. where you arguably need more width. The faster

1:58:18you're moving, you need you need more width of travel. I don't think the intent is presented here is this is supposed to be a lane for bicycles. I'm just saying I'm not supportive of these lanes for bicycles adjacent to Whether it be 30 mile an hour traffic or 50 mile an hour traffic or 70 mile an hour traffic, it's foolish. Half the time I see people riding down the wrong way down these bike lanes. I see people in wheelchairs riding in the bike lanes. I Get them

1:58:49off on. That's why we're building these multi-use paths. If we need shoulders, I'm all about shoulders. That's fine. Get the bicycles off of adjacent to the track.

1:58:59Very dense urban areas, you know, where it's fifteen miles an hour or less or something like that. But

1:59:04you got to buy a car by 15 miles an hour, it's still very simple. Well, no,

1:59:08I'm my only point is is that if you have the width there, if you decide to take out the striking for bikes, it's still there as a short. My my concern is that if you don't at least require that width to be there, you have no shoulder. That's my concern.

1:59:22Garrick's point. If the road was if the road is going to be designed for 45 mile hours, then you wouldn't have a shoulder. Right. You actually lose width

1:59:34of the road, which is Counterintuitive for a faster speed limit. Oh. It's probably usual there too. I don't disagree with that.

1:59:43One thing we need to just everybody needs to keep in mind is the right-of-way width doesn't change. So you start out in extra five feet for a sidewalk, extra five foot for North East Trail, extra room for a shoulder. You're you're taking away green space, you're taking away landscape trees that

1:59:56on the

1:59:57other side of the argument we

1:59:58And that's the other place too where you have to run those utilities. And so the next time you've got to dig up the broken water main, guess what you're fixing? Sidewalks and roads.

2:00:06Yeah. Mm.

2:00:11I

2:00:11agree with David. I don't think we should call

2:00:13it a bike line. Does that make that's I think we're almost forcing people to ride in the lane because they think that's what legally

2:00:22is required. Of course, none of that's in the purview of our committee, but It's on the record. I mean, could you at least call a bike lane slash holder something so that it's clear that it's functioning? I mean, even the code itself. I think we put language in saying that you don't have to put a shoulder and a bike lane because it was the same thing.

2:00:42Yes, the shoulder uh shoulder widths, the bike lane satisfies requirement for shoulder widths as well.

2:00:47Right. So It should probably be labeled as a bike lane slash shoulder. Even if even if you want even if we think it is gonna be We can debate back and forth whether we should have bike lanes or not. But Mike, when is it? it's functioning as more than just a bike lane. So that should be my opinion properly indicated on the graphic.

2:01:06Okay.

2:01:07Well

2:01:09say this to your point.

2:01:13If it's a five foot wide Shoulder. Whatever we want to call it. You're still going to block the right lane if you pull into it because your car broke down. So You're not going to have any different effect on traffic. Because they're still gonna have to go in the next lane over to get around you if you're stopped. So it doesn't really matter.

2:01:35Well I don't know about that. I think if you Because of our lane widths, I think that the

2:01:41You guys made the lane widths from 12 feet to 11 feet. You've made them narrower. So respectfully disagree with that. We don't have a county engineer here. I guess I heard anybody from traffic cops to know whether that's enough. I'm I'm not providing false testimony here. They made them 11 feet width. Whereas the standard lane widths are twelve feet. It's

2:02:05the average width of the car, seven, eight feet. Seven vehicle. Seven six and change. Seven feet. Call it. So you're two feet if you're five feet into the all the way into the bicycle lane, you're two feet still into the lane. Yeah,

2:02:18so you I You still

2:02:20have a little bit into the other lane, but you're it's still less.

2:02:23I encountered the problem on US nineteen this morning. Well. Two people who had a bumper scratcher of an accident decided to pull off on the little shoulder in the median. And then that blocks the entire That's southbound US nineteen. We were forced to get in the other lane to go around and then regardless, you have to go around that car. It's blocking the lane.

2:02:49The way you're not blocking the line is if they pull off on that multi-use path. Maybe we need maybe we need a wider shoulder then.

2:02:59Well, with this there'd be a curb there, correct?

2:03:04From the road road level that would depend if it's an urban or rural. If it's rural, it's less of an issue because you can spool in the grass too. Right.

2:03:15Yeah, so it was a curve. Makes it more difficult to pull off of the road into the grass in a emergency situation.

2:03:25So I pulled up the at least one of our typical sections as adopted in 19-136, if that helps provide any context.

2:03:35So where's the curve in this? You can see the little teeny step there.

2:03:40Two feet immediately adjacent to the bike lane.

2:03:45Two

2:03:45foot section and Yeah, I see.

2:03:55Well, that style curve isn't so hard to drive over, is it? The old style.

2:03:59Well those are Okay. The ones in the medium are median are mountable. The ones on the outside edge. What did you say the standard width of a bar was? Was it the

2:04:09standard width of a bar?

2:04:11Somewhere around well they vary by car, but Average around six feet or so, six to seven feet. Well, okay.

2:04:18If the bike lane is five feet, you're still getting the majority of the car.

2:04:23Either way, you

2:04:24still gotta get in the other lane.

2:04:26I don't I'm I'm not

2:04:27creating real estate here. Make your

2:04:32You didn't be rather cheerless.

2:04:34Then what are you gonna do about a semi-truck that's allowed to be eight feet wide?

2:04:39Okay, if you want to make the bike lane six feet, I'm all for it. I'm just saying I don't care what I'm all for Pave Shoulders. How about it? I'm just saying let's get the bikes off the road and I think there's a certain commissioner who might be the chairman of the board that's probably gonna push back about the bike lanes. That's all I'm saying.

2:04:57Not like a microphone. I don't disagree, but that's why I'm saying we should call them something other than mic lanes. Call them bike lanes on shoulders or whatever it is, but Partnership lines. Multi uh whatever we want to call it, but it but it

2:05:14I do think that having that five feet Makes it safer during a breakdown. I was standing what Mr. Woody says that I I think it gives some relief to the uncommon art of the

2:05:29The car's six feet wide, I see six feet of See how you can get six feet of car in there.

2:05:35We're not arguing we're we're not arguing about the same thing.

2:05:38Mm.

2:05:39I'm not against having additional pavements written for shoulders. I'm saying get the bicycles off of it. Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Get the bikes off of it. Get the bikes on the multi-use path. That's why we're building ten foot wide multi-use.

2:05:55Okay, how about we just call it a biplane or a shoulder? Call that shoulder.

2:06:01To be clear, are we talking about actually revising language in the proposed LBC or just on the graphic?

2:06:08It's just the sections. There's

2:06:10no

2:06:10language in there, is there?

2:06:13There

2:06:13is

2:06:13a reference to a bike lane, but it also language in the code says it is the shoulder too.

2:06:18Yeah.

2:06:20I'm not sure there's a problem with the code. The code says it's functioning, it's serving as both function.

2:06:30I tend

2:06:31to think that that it is a danger and I think I agree with a bike line is. It's almost like telling people this is the lane we gotta be

2:06:39in, it don't wanna be on a bike. And I rarely see people use a bike lane as well.

2:06:45You see these

2:06:46people with all the gear on and the helmets and everything. Yeah, 15 in a row going down the bike lane. Yeah,

2:06:52I thought that's why I'm providing a 10-foot trail.

2:06:54Exactly.

2:06:55Isn't that the whole point of providing

2:06:57trail? That's what I'm

2:06:58talking about. I'm not opposed to shoulders. Have all the shoulders and emergency pull-off areas you want. We don't have them up.

2:07:06What if we call the shoulder and then we decide later whether we're gonna allow bikes on it?

2:07:12Well, the state law allows bicycles to ride down the road too. I'm just saying you're stupid if you do it. Right. And I we don't need to encourage people to do it. That's why we want to invest in these multi-use paths. It's to get them off of the road so we can have a safe place to bicycle. And I'm sure there's a certain retired school board member that could come here and testify to that personally. Correct.

2:07:35Yeah.

2:07:36I

2:07:36I've seen municipalities that designate a portion of that multi-use trail as bicycle. Doesn't mean you can't walk on that section, but there's a little lane built into that, painted onto that multi-use trail. And so that one might be a better use to encourage that. He doesn't need three feet of that ten feet trail. To a bike those rails, the trails, they have bikes all over. They do, yeah. But I see I've seen it before where they actually have a lane designated for bikes.

2:08:04Yeah, I have to

2:08:06Multi use

2:08:07and just please don't put stop controls on the bike lanes like New Port Richey because the people on the street don't understand that the stop sign is for the bike path and not for the street.

2:08:18Neither just Google Maps.

2:08:20Yeah.

2:08:23Ultimate question is you hit the nail on the head, Mr. Mitty. If the streets are allowed to use the road anyway. I mean the bikes will all ease the road anyway. Wouldn't you rather have them on the outside edge? In the shoulder.

2:08:36I don't want to Well I want to highly encourage them to use the multi-use path that we're now going to obligate developers to build along Vision Roads. Our terms. Okay. And all I'm suggesting to you, and I don't care because I'm still gonna recommend approval of this thing, but I'm getting telling you when you get to the board There's a lady who's got a gavel up there and I'm pretty sure she's gonna tell you the same

2:09:04thing. I don't I understand that and what I'm seeing is I don't want an overreaction that causes us to lose

2:09:10our shoulders. That's my issue. No, I don't want you to lose your shoulders. I'm going on the record. I am completely in support of having adequately wide enough paved shoulders. So that you can pull over in the event of David's Tesla runs out of electricity.

2:09:28And he has to sit there for the next 12 hours while they charge.

2:09:31Jerry, give it give a suggestion to get solved this. Yeah, Mr. Chairman. Mariano.

2:09:37Charge Detail's point economic growth. Um there There is work that's happening in the background on the right-of-way typicals with County Engineers. So we could look at the term more comprehensive, whether we denote it on the typicals as bike lane or as shoulder or bike lane slash shoulder. There are other terms that are used by like the GIS profession. Asri ArcJS calls them edge lane roads or ELRs, advisory bike lanes, advisory shoulders. There's

2:10:07a slew of terms that we could debate internally as to what we should actually call them. But for the purposes of this graphic, we could simply remove it and just be just be silent on it. Yeah.

2:10:19Since this graphic is really intended for the momentum.

2:10:24Terry, just point we're trying to make is we don't care what

2:10:31It's not a semantic argument over what we call it. We all understand that it is safer for the bicyclist to use the multi-use trail that we're going to require be constructed than to Ride in the traffic lane or on the side of the traffic lane. That's the whole point of having the multi-use trail. Otherwise, we just call it a sidewalk.

2:10:54Uh understood. And

2:10:56I'll disagree.

2:11:00So for additional clarity here.

2:11:02Um There are certain sections in our proposed amendment here that does refer to bike lanes. So The guidance here to maybe remove bicycle references to bicycle lanes for now because

2:11:17My preference I need to replace it with whatever term Terry comes up with that this multifunctional thing, whatever I don't know what the right term is, but the shoulder. The shoulder or whatever whatever it is. If that Terry means there's some new

2:11:35term of art that's used for these things that I'm not opposed to using, but I think the concern you're hearing is designated as a as a bike lane is a problem because it implies that that's the purpose of it. Got it. When it's I don't think anybody thinks that should be the purpose, the sole purpose of that pavement. You mean you're encouraging people to use Sarash.

2:11:58Okay.

2:11:59Which is not good. There was a time that was probably okay. I remember when I first went to the University of Florida and I was enthralled at the city of Gainesville who had these lanes for bicycles on the side of the road. Okay. We didn't have these in nineteen eighty two. Okay. Once we got these changes,

2:12:19I changed the chat

2:12:20changed the

2:12:21equation. So Mr. Chairman, just to clarify earlier comment, it's the federal highway administration. And their small town and rural multimodal network guide that identifies these as edge lane roads or advisory shoulders by FHWA. So that's a federal term.

2:12:40Yeah, that doesn't divisory shoulders. I'm okay with. That doesn't say mics. I like it when it doesn't say. Doesn't matter, they're shut down.

2:12:50It's true. I mean, it it it's clearly not a place where you want cars driving fast either. It's

2:12:56no we don't want any cars driving fast out there's why the term advisory shoulder is a good thing. Yeah,

2:13:01it's

2:13:02shoulder.

2:13:06So don't call it a bike lane. That's all we're saying. I like

2:13:08advisor shoulders.

2:13:11We just wanted a place for people to

2:13:12walk. We won't need we don't need ten feet wide there.

2:13:15Exactly.

2:13:17Yeah. Right, but we're talking about the five feet. We're talking about incurred bicycles. We need it to be quite I agree on the multi is true. We're just the the issue is what are we going to call the five feet? I should all. Well for the purposes of this hearing, can we leave it out? Entirely. Is there well I think or do we need to come up with a term before we I think the problem is the code is referred to a bike lane, I think.

2:13:47That's the super.

2:13:51So we 9016 already has shoulders covered.

2:13:58No. So we have a section that talks to shoulders. um already. So I again I don't I don't know how this is going to interplay with each other, but I just wanted to point that out. So if we're changing the name of what a shoulder may be, maybe we're changing that code section as well. Now granted, 9016 is generally talking about Um subdivision collector and lower. So subdivision collector, local roads, even minor rural subdivision has a small little shoulder on it. We're talking about vision roads, right? That's covered by a vision road typicals, which I

2:14:28believe they're we're intending to update in the not so distant future. So there's different hierarchy of things that are at play here. So if we're talking about changing terms. I think we need to look at it a little bit more holistically, just to

2:14:44Well in Land O' Lakes in this section of the code of what's proposed underneath the bicycle lanes, you got subsection one, two, and three. Can we just delete two and three and leave it to where it says it shall be constructed in accord with the adoptive typical sections? And then when the typical sections are updated. They'll be called whatever they decide to be called.

2:15:03I am not opposed to that.

2:15:05Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me.

2:15:10You should probably make a motion, Jack.

2:15:11Yep.

2:15:13Well,

2:15:13so moved. Did you get that?

2:15:16You can eat it.

2:15:19Gotta level up the hierarchy here, but it's sub subsection two and three under bicycle lanes for arterial collector roads. We're just gonna strike those two subsections.

2:15:31I would second that. Motion and second for the discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Others like sign. To go home.

2:15:45Bay.

2:15:49I'm full confidence that Terry can come up with a good name from interval sections. Absolutely.

2:15:56Yeah.

2:15:57Carrying the weight of the world on the shoulders.

2:16:03Got a lot of writing on your filters. Thank you.

2:16:06Thanks for your time.

2:16:07Thank you. Thank you.

2:16:16Oh. So

2:16:17I'll I'll move approval.

2:16:20Second. So

2:16:21motion is second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Behind saying aye. Aye. Opposed?

2:16:29Okay. Okay.

2:16:33Okay.

1:46:46For item PC seven, you will also be sitting as a local planning agency for this item. It's PDE 26002, an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners, amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, Section 522.9, Connected City Master Plan Unit Development District, Section 901, Infrastructure Standards, Section 901.1, Transportation Corridor Spacing. Section 901.6 street design and dedication requirements, Section 901.7, Bicycle Facilities, Section 901.8,

1:47:17Pedestrian Facilities, Appendix A, Definitions, and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability, repealer, providing for severability, excuse me, inclusion into the Pasco County Land Development Code, and an effective date presented by staff.

1:47:34Thank you.

1:47:38Okay. Can you guys hear me okay?

1:47:39Yeah.

1:47:40Fantastic. Rebecca Bow, Planning Development, Economic Growth. Here uh again to present PDE 26002 infrastructure standards land development code amendment.

1:47:58Okay, so really quickly, um the intent of this ordinance update is to update certain portions of the code for internal consistency. consolidating sections 901.7 and 901.8 into a comprehensive section 901.7. providing enhanced standards for location and connectivity for our bicycle and PED network. And we hope that these changes will strengthen the county's position to require land development projects to construct segments of our non-motorized transportation network.

1:48:29So, as a recap from our last uh discussion on this item, there were concerns about requiring a multi-use paved trail exclusively on the south or east side. The general thought was that this policy was too rigid and raised several concerns. including potential impact on property values, challenges on diagonal roads, conflicts with existing alignments, and uh there would remain a need for pedestrians to cross the street to get from a sidewalk to a trail. So to resolve

1:48:59these issues, we are proposing a 10-foot multi-use paved trail on both sides of arterial and collector roads. This approach will simplify administration, create a symmetrical network, and support future updates to the county's typical sections.

1:49:18So some of the other uh conversations we had was that what we were proposing didn't exempt rural future land use categories and that section 901.7 and 901.8 as they exist today currently do um exempt anything below res three. So to address those concerns, we've written in language to exempt agricultural, agricultural rural rural, residential one future land use from the requirements of this section. except where the

1:49:49zoning is an MPUD. And in that case, uh the county would retain the right to negotiate these facilities.

1:49:59Alright, lastly, we discussed the payment and loo option. There was some sentiment that that option should model the Pinells County's system, which allows developers to build where the sidewalk is needed. rather than putting it on their site or adjusting to the site. So what we are proposing with our payment and lieu option functions similarly in situations where it's not feasible to construct a sidewalk or a multi-use path. or where there's already a path programmed in

1:50:29the CIP. Um the developer can pay the county and then we can construct that path. um somewhere else that provides a benefit to the feed payer. I did review Pinellas County's land development code to look for this particular process. I found one section in their code that spoke to this. It was applicable to subdivisions. And it explicitly stated that they can provide a sidewalk in other locations to overcome physical

1:50:59constraints where there is a benefit to the development. I didn't find in their land development code anywhere else where they have a payment lie option or an option to build it the sidewalk somewhere else. I even called Penells County and they confirmed that there was nothing else written in their land development code. that touched on this process.

1:51:23All right, so overall summary of our changes. We're making some updates for internal consistency. So 522.9 and 901.6. We're updating cross-references. So everywhere the code says 901.7 and 901.8. We're updating that to the 901.7. Section 901.1, transportation corridor spacing. Um we are updating that to reference the current resolution that's 19-136. And indicating that we will be placing the county typical sections in

1:51:53our development review manual, which we hope will make them easier to find. Uh we're also adding some clarifying language to that section, um, which states that bicycle and pedestrian requirements, as stated in 901.7, um are applicable to arterial and collector road designs.

1:52:13Um oh and we're updating nine oh one point six street design and dedication requirements. This is a minor update to allow friction course as an allowable road construction material.

1:52:25And a broad summary of our changes to the bike PED. Uh lane development code. Currently, 9017 and 9018 are applicable to REST III, future land use or higher. Um on subdivision collector roads they have to provide either a bike lane or a 12 foot multi-use path. Pedestrian facilities are required on all street types except for alleys. Um on collector and arterial, five foot sidewalks are required and four foot sidewalks on all other streets. What we're proposing

1:52:55is a land development code that would be applicable to all development sites except for agricultural, agricultural rule, res residential one, future land use. And it varies by street type. So again, we're proposing ten-foot multi-use paved trails on both sides of arterial and collector roads.

1:53:12Five

1:53:12put sidewalks on one side and eight put side or multi-use paved trails on the other side of a subdivision collector. and five foot sidewalks on residential roads.

1:53:24In addition, we're proposing pedestrian circulation and connectivity language. So this language would require all on-site uses to be linked via sidewalks. They have to connect to the external pedestrian or bicycle network. They have all principal structures have to be connected to each other. And parking lots with 100 more spaces have to provide a safe, direct path from the parking lot to the building entrances. A little later in our process in writing this code, we got some feedback that this particular section

1:53:54for the parking lots. Should require frequency requirements that specify how often sidewalks should be provided within the parking area. We're currently working on adding that into our draft and we plan on Adding it to the draft that we will bring to the Board of County Commissioners.

1:54:13Oh and then Yeah. So as I mentioned previously, we're requiring or providing a payment in lieu of construction option. So again, where it's not feasible to build a sidewalk or multi-use path, applicants can pay in lieu. Um and

1:54:30And um we can use that money to build the sidewalk. As long as it benefits the fee payer.

1:54:38This is our overall vision for the multimodal network we'd like to achieve.

1:54:44And the recommendation is that find the proposed amendments consistent with the comprehensive plan, and I'm here to answer your questions.

1:54:52Is there a proposed fee for payment in lieu?

1:54:57I think the plan right now is to have the developer provide a cost estimate. That cost estimate would then be reviewed by the county attorney who would give it its stamp of approval.

1:55:11County engineer.

1:55:14The The county engineer would review it. Yeah. Uh he would give the stamp of approval and then that would be the cost that we would use. And We like that method because it can accommodate uh different widths and construction materials that might have otherwise been required by the code.

1:55:32Can I ask who did you speak with at Penellas County?

1:55:37Like mm. I don't recall her name.

1:55:43But if there's a process that they're using in Penellas County that's

1:55:47I would Tell you to reach out to Gene Crossan. Okay. Who's the development review manager? Okay.

1:55:58And it is their common policy that if you cannot build the sidewalk adjacent to your site that you will go build the same length of sidewalk elsewhere where they need it.

1:56:09And that What I'm saying is that in their land development code, I didn't find any supporting language for that.

1:56:20Understood.

1:56:22And the reason that I suggested that here Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a payment in lieu. In fact I've been behind the scenes lobbying for a payment in lieu for many years 'cause my clients have built a lot of sidewalks to nowhere.

1:56:40The difference is this. My client can build a sidewalk. Probably half the price you can build one. And they can do it twice as fast. And we want sidewalks, we want production. I don't mean this to sound insulting. Because I do understand there's a process, David, for Demonstrating that you're taking only the right of way you need for a road. But the citizens in

1:57:10Shady Hills are screaming, We need a road, we need a road and we're telling 'em, yeah, hold on for six or seven years, you'll get a road.

1:57:18If you let the developer go build a sidewalk. before you give 'em his C O, they'll have the sidewalk today. Mm-hmm. Not seven years from now, not when you get around to it, not when it's on somebody's CIP.

1:57:31Not when there's seven years of inflation

1:57:33on the money

1:57:33that was

1:57:33paid in. Exactly.

1:57:36You'll

1:57:37get more sidewalks quicker. I'm not opposed to payment in lieu at all. I just hope that you would keep Such it. such an option open. as a way to satisfy building a sidewalk regulation so that we can actually have sidewalks to somewhere and have them today, not ten years from now. But that's all. Otherwise I'm happy with this.

1:58:00Can you flip back to the previous slide real quick? I just wanted to look at that little diagram again.

1:58:07Okay. So that's the big difference is we we talked about the east and the south, I think, so now this is just Splitting the difference and we're going on both sides everywhere.

1:58:16Yeah.

1:58:19Okay, any other questions or comments?

1:58:21Go back to your table. I think it's one or two more slides.

1:58:25This one?

1:58:26Yes.

1:58:29So where's the twelve foot multi use path go?

1:58:34That's the piece that we're changing. So we were proposing a 12-foot multi-use path on one side, the south or the east side. And we've changed it to propose a ten foot path on both sides. The right

1:58:44column is what it was.

1:58:46Correct.

1:58:47And the right column is okay. Okay.

1:58:52So go back to the diagram again?

1:58:53Yes.

1:58:57So on your subdivision collectors it it actu it actually isn't Symmetrical, right? So it's five foot on one, eight on the other? Yes. And that's on is that the same th situation? It's on the west and north sides where it's five feet and

1:59:13No, in that particular section we wrote language to say put it on one side, but if there's an existing alignment, you have to um build per that alignment.

1:59:22Quick question about the graphic. For the vision roads, it says You want a ten foot multi use path on each side. And then it says five foot marked bicycle lane on roads forty miles an hour or less. Is does that mean you're gonna have a multi use path and a bike lane, or if it's a forty mile an hour or less road, it'll just be the bike lane?

1:59:42It means we'd have both, but if it's a forty mile per hour or less road, it would be marked as a bike lane.

1:59:51Okay. I'll just say I'm

1:59:54not supportive of bike lanes. I'm pretty sure one of the commissioners will give you

2:00:01Give you some Pushback about bike lanes. I call them suicide lanes. Yeah, mm-hmm. As soon as these things were invented and people could start texting and driving, Riding your bicycle in a bike lane is a death wish.

2:00:17Well, I've been advocating that we stop calling them by queens and nobody ever listens to me.

2:00:24Because to the to me they basically function as the road shoulder. And I don't know why we keep calling them bike lanes, because they're effectively The breakdown lane.

2:00:36You need a place when your car is broken down, you don't want people stopping in the middle of the travel lane. So you need a place for people to pull to the side and if that is Maybe we just need to stop calling them bike lanes and calling them the roadway's shoulder. But But That's the problem when you say eliminate the bike lane is you're eliminating the roadway shoulder too. That's the problem.

2:00:58The only thing that makes it a bike lane is that little diamond stripe thing.

2:01:03Maybe we should start calling it shoulder slash bike lane, but but But I want a place to break down when my if if my car is broken down. I don't want to be stuck in the middle of the travel lane. So Let's not forget about the people driving the cars too.

2:01:22That's so but that's effectively what that is.

2:01:24Yeah, but ten foot multi use path, that seems to me you could ride a bike on that. Yeah, pretty much. That's what

2:01:30multi use. But I'm saying i is the is that even if it is usable as a bike lane, it's also usable as the and that's what the code makes it clear is that that it also function as the shoulder. We're not going to require you to do a bike lane and a shoulder. They're the same thing.

2:01:48The irony of this is is you lose that on a road forty miles an hour or above. where you arguably need more width on you e you know, the faster you're moving you you need you need more

2:02:00width of travel. All right. I don't think the intent as presented here is this is supposed to be a lane for bicycles. I'm just saying I'm not supportive of these lanes for bicycles adjacent to Whether it be thirty mile an hour traffic or fifty mile an hour traffic or seventy mile an hour traffic. It's foolish. Half the time I see people riding down the wrong way down these bike lanes. I see people in wheelchairs riding in the bike lanes. I uh Get 'em off o that's why we're building these

2:02:31multi use paths. We need shoulders. I'm all about shoulders. That's fine. Yeah. Get the bicycles off of adjacent to the track. It might make it away from the track.

2:02:48Well my my only point is that if you have the width there, if you decide to take out the striping for bikes, it's still there as a shoulder. My my concern is that if you don't at least require that

2:03:05if the road was if the road is going to be designed for forty five mil house an hour, then you wouldn't have a shoulder. Right.

2:03:13You actually lose width of the road, which is Counterintuitive for a faster speed limit.

2:03:19Well, I you probably need a shoulder there too. I don't disagree with him.

2:03:23Yeah, one thing we need to just everybody needs to keep in mind is the right-of-way width doesn't change. So you start adding extra five feet for a sidewalk, extra five foot for multi-use trail, extra room for a shoulder, you're you're taking away green space, you're taking away landscape trees that the other side of the argument we've got to do.

2:03:38And that's the other place too where you have to run those utilities and so the next time you've got to dig up the broken water main, guess what you're fixing?

2:03:46Sidewalks and roads. Yeah.

2:03:51Well, I agree with David. I don't think we should call it a bike lane. 'Cause I think that's a f We're almost forcing people to ride in the lane because they think that's what legally is required.

2:04:04Of course none of that's in the purview of our committee, but It's on the record.

2:04:09I mean can you at least call it bike lane slash holder or something so that it's clear that it's functioning. I mean even the code itself I think we put language in saying that you don't have to put a shoulder and a bike lane 'cause it was the same thing.

2:04:23Yes, the shoulder uh shoulder widths the bike lane satisfies requirement for shoulder widths as well.

2:04:28Right. So It should probably be labelled as a bike lane slash shoulder. Even if even if you want even if we think it is gonna be We can debate back and forth whether we should have bike lanes or not. But my point is that It's functioning as more than just a bike lane. And so that should be, in my opinion, properly indicated on the graphic.

2:04:47Okay.

2:04:48Well say this to your point.

2:04:54If it's a five foot wide Shoulder. Whatever we want to call it. You're still gonna block the right lane if you pull into it because your car broke down. So You're not gonna have any different effect on traffic. Because they're still gonna have to go in the next lane over to get around you if you're stopped. So it doesn't really matter.

2:05:15Well, I don't know about

2:05:16that. I think if you Because of our lane widths, I think the the You guys made the lane widths from twelve feet to eleven feet. Made 'em narrower. So I'll respectfully disagree with that.

2:05:32Well we don't have the county engineer here, I guess

2:05:33I'll

2:05:34or anybody from Traffic Cops to know whether that's enough.

2:05:37I'm I'm not providing false testimony here. They made 'em eleven feet width. Whereas the standard lane widths are twelve feet.

2:05:45So what's the average width of a car? Seven, eight feet? Seven vehicle? Seven feet? Six and change. Seven feet. Call it. So you're two feet if you're five feet into the all the way into the bicycle and you're two feet still into the lane.

2:05:59You still

2:06:01have to go a little bit into the other lane, but you're gonna

2:06:02it's still less. I encountered the problem on US nineteen this morning when two people who had a bumper scratcher of an accident decided to pull off on the little shoulder in the median and then that blocked the entire Left southbound US nineteen. We are forced to get in the other lane to go around. Regardless, you have to go around that car. It's blocking the lane.

2:06:29The only way about blocking their lane is if they pull off on that multi-use path.

2:06:34Maybe maybe we need a wider

2:06:35shoulder then.

2:06:40Well, with this there'd be a curb there, correct?

2:06:45From the road road level.

2:06:48Yeah, I don't know if it's urban or rural. If it's rural it's less of an issue because you can just pull in the grass too.

2:06:55Yeah,

2:06:55so

2:06:56there's a curb. There we go. Which makes it more difficult to pull off of the road into the grass in a emergency situation.

2:07:06So I pulled up the at least one of our typical sections um as adopted in nineteen dash one three six if that helps provide any context.

2:07:16So where's the curb in this? You can see the little teeny step there. Two feet.

2:07:23Yeah. Yeah, the two foot section there. See you David. Yeah,

2:07:28I see

2:07:28you.

2:07:35Mm. Well, that style curb isn't so hard to drive over

2:07:38as a The old style. Well those are Is it The ones in the medium median are mountable, the ones on the outside edge are the right-of-way.

2:07:52Somewhere around six well they vary by car, but

2:07:58Well, okay. If the bike lane's five feet, you're still getting the majority of the car. You st either way you still gotta get

2:08:05in the other lane.

2:08:06I don't know.

2:08:09I'm not convinced that that you're

2:08:12You got the gutter too.

2:08:14And then what are you gonna do about a semi truck that's allowed to be eight feet wide?

2:08:18Ha ha ha.

2:08:20Look, if you want to make the bike lane six feet, I'm all for it. I'm just saying I don't care what I'm all for paved shoulders. How about it? I'm just saying let's get the bikes off the road and I think there's a certain commissioner who might be the chairman of the board that's probably gonna push back about the bike lanes. That's all I'm saying. I

2:08:38I I I don't disagree, but that's why I'm saying we should call them something other than bike lanes. Call them bike laneslash shoulders or whatever it is, but

2:08:47Emergency lanes.

2:08:49Multi uh whatever we want to call it, but uh but it

2:08:54I do think that having that five feet Makes it safer during a breakdown. Notwithstanding what Mr. Moody says that I I think it gives some relief to the uncommon dri other drivers.

2:09:09If the car is six feet wide, I see six feet of see how you can get six feet of car in

2:09:14there. We're not argu we're we're not arguing about the same thing. I'm not against having additional pavement width for shoulders. I'm saying get the bicycles off of it. Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Get the bikes off of it. Get the bikes on the multi-use path. That's why we're building ten foot wide multi-use path. Yeah. Okay, how about we just call it a bike lane or a shoulder? Just call it a shoulder.

2:09:41To be clear, are we talking about actually revising language in the proposed L D C or just on the graphic?

2:09:48I think just the sections. There's no language in there, is there? Is there language?

2:09:54There

2:09:54is

2:09:54a reference to a bike lane, but it also the language in the code says it is the shoulder too. So I'm not sure there's a problem with the code. The code says it's functioning it's serving as both functions.

2:10:10I I tend to think that that it is a danger and I think uh the one at a bike lane is That's almost like telling people, This is the lane you gotta be in if you wanna be on a bike. And I rarely see people use it as a

2:10:23bike lane as well.

2:10:26You see these people with all the gear on and the helmets and everything. Yeah, fifteen in a row going down the bike lane.

2:10:32Yeah, I thought that's why they were riding a ten foot trail.

2:10:35Exactly. Isn't

2:10:35that

2:10:35the whole

2:10:36point of the riding

2:10:37trail for the training?

2:10:39I'm not opposed to shoulders. Have all the shoulders and emergency pull-off areas you want. What if we have a

2:10:46bikes off the road? What if we call it a shoulder and then we decide later whether we're gonna allow bikes on it?

2:10:53Well the state law allows bicycles to ride down the road too. I'm just saying you're stupid if you do it. Right. And I we don't need to encourage people to do it. That's why we want to invest in these multi use paths is to get them off of the road so we can have a safe place to bicycle. And I'm sure there's a certain retired school board member that could come here and testify to that personally.

2:11:16I I've seen municipalities that designate a portion of that multi use trail as bicycle. You know, it doesn't mean you can't walk on that section, but there's a little lane built into that, painted onto that multi use trail, and so that might be a better use to encourage that. You designate Three feet of that ten feet trail. You see those rails, the trails, they have bikes all over 'em. They do, yeah. But I've seen I've seen it before where they actually have a lane designated for bikes.

2:11:44Yeah, I have too. on the multi-use and just please don't put stop controls on the bike lanes like New Port Richey has done because the people on the street don't understand that the stop sign is for the bike path and not for the street.

2:11:58I know that's fairly contriving.

2:11:59Neither does Google Maps.

2:12:01I mean I I g I guess the ultimately the question is uh you you hit the nail on the head, Mr. Moody. If the streets are allowed to use the road anyway I mean if the bikes are allowed to use the road anyway, legally wouldn't you rather have them on the outside edge Yeah.

2:12:18Well, I want to highly encourage them to use the multi-use pat path that we're now going to obligate developers to build along vision roads.

2:12:32Correct. And all I'm suggesting to you, and I don't care because I'm still gonna recommend approval of this thing, but I'm gonna tell you when you get to the board There's a lady who's got a gavel up there and I'm pretty sure she's gonna tell you the same thing.

2:12:52No, I don't want you to lose your shoulders. I'm going on the record. I am completely in support of having adequately wide enough paved shoulders. So that you can pull over in the event of David's Tesla runs out of electricity.

2:13:08And he has to sit there for the next twelve hours while he charges it.

2:13:14Yeah, mm Mr. Chairman Mari

2:13:20There is work that's happening in the background on the right-of-way typicals with the county engineer, so we could look at the term more comprehensive plan whether we denote it on the typicals as bike lane or as shoulder or as bike lane slash shoulder. There are other terms that are used by like the GIS professional. Esri ArcJS calls them edge lane roads or ELRs, advisory bike lanes, advisory shoulders. There's a slew of terms that we could debate internally as

2:13:50to what we should actually call them. But for the purposes of this graphic, we could simply remove it and just be just be silent on it.

2:14:12It's not a semantic argument over what we call it. We all understand that it is safer for the bicyclist to use the multi use trail that we're going to require be constructed than to ride in the traffic lane or on the side of the traffic lane. That's the whole point of having the multi-use trail. Otherwise we'd just call it a sidewalk.

2:14:34Uh understood. And Don't disagree.

2:14:40So for additional clarity here. There are certain sections in our a proposed amendment here that does refer to bike lanes. So Is the guidance here to maybe remove bicycle references to bicycle lanes for now because

2:14:57Uh my preference would be to replace it with whatever term Terry comes up with that this multifunctional okay thing, whatever

2:15:09The shoulder or whatever whatever it is. uh Terry made sound like there's some new

2:15:16term of art that's used for these things that I I'm not opposed to using but Mm.

2:15:24designated as a as a bike lane is a problem because it implies that that's the purpose of it.

2:15:29Got it.

2:15:30When it I don't think anybody thinks that should be the purpose the sole purpose of that pavement.

2:15:35Understood.

2:15:38Okay.

2:15:39Which is not good. There was a time when that was probably okay. I remember when I first went to the University of Florida and I was enthralled at the city of Gainesville who had these lanes for bicycles on the side of the road. Right. We didn't have these in nineteen eighty two. Okay. Once we got to change the ch change the equation.

2:16:02So Mr. Chairman, just to clarify my earlier comment, it's the Federal Highway Administration In their small town and rural multimodal network guide that identifies these as edge lane roads or advisory shoulders by F H W A. So that's a federal term.

2:16:20Advisory shouldn't advisory shoulders I'm okay with. That doesn't say bikes. I like it when it doesn't say bikes. It doesn't matter, they're shut down.

2:16:30It's true. I mean i it it's clearly not a place where you want cars driving fast either. It's no we don't want any cars driving fast down there either.

2:16:48I like advisory shoulders. If we just wanted a place for people to walk, we won't need we don't need 'em ten feet wide either. Exactly. So yeah.

2:16:59Right.

2:17:00If we're talking about encouraging bicycles, we need a ten P wide.

2:17:05I agree on the multi use trail. We're

2:17:07just tr

2:17:08the the issue is what are we going to call the five feet

2:17:11The shoulder. Well for the purposes of this hearing, can we leave it out entirely? Is there or do we need to come up with a term before we

2:17:22I think the problem is the code does refer to a bike lien, I think. That's the

2:17:28mr chair, if I can add uh Patrick Dutter, um development review. So we nine oh one six already has shoulders covered. I'm sure the engineers up there know. So we have a section that talks to shoulders. Um already. So I got it. I don't know how this is going to interplay with each other, but I just wanted to point that out. So for changing the name of what a shoulder may be Maybe we're changing that code section as well. Now granted, nine oh one six is generally talking about Um subdivision collector and lower.

2:17:59So subdivision collector, local roads, even minor rural subdivision has a small little shoulder on it. When we're talking about vision roads, right, that's covered by our vision road typicals, which I believe they're we're intending to update in the not so distant future. So there's different hierarchy of things that are at play here. So if we're talking about changing terms, terms I think we need to look at it a little bit more holistically. Just a thought.

2:18:25Well in in the land of uh in this section of the code with what's proposed, underneath the bicycle lanes, you get subsection one, two and three. Can we just delete two and three and leave it to where it says it shall be constructed in accord with the adopted typical sections? And then when the typical sections are updated. They'll be called whatever they decide to be called.

2:18:43I am not opposed to that.

2:18:46Sounds

2:18:46good to

2:18:46me. Sounds good to me.

2:18:48Okay.

2:18:48Brilliant. You should probably make a motion, Jamie.

2:18:54So moved. Did you get that?

2:18:59Yeah I've got to follow up the hierarchy here, but it's sub subsection two and three under bicycle lanes for arterial and collector roads. We're just gonna strike those two subsections.

2:19:11I would second that. Motion a second further discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Those like sign? Want to go home.

2:19:25Okay.

2:19:28Good buttons all.

2:19:29Thank you.

2:19:32Oh yeah.

2:19:33In a typical section.

2:19:34Absolutely.

2:19:38Carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

2:19:39Carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

2:19:44Got a lot riding on your shoulders there, Terry.

2:19:46Thanks for your time.

2:19:47Thank you. Thank you. You thought it was gonna be quick, didn't you? Did you all make it that

2:19:52that was just a motion to strike those sections? We need a motion to start.

2:19:56Oh.

2:19:57So I'll I'll move approval. Second.

2:20:01We have a motion and second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Like signed? No.

2:20:14Okay.