Appeal of a Determination by the Development Review Director (APPEAL- 2025-00005) – Meadow Pointe II Community Development District (CDD) – An Appeal of the Determination of the Development Review Director to Deny a Request to Install a Gate Across Wrencrest Drive (SITEPLN-2024-00162)

1:21:42And uh anything else? Oh yeah. We have another item. One more item.

1:21:48The last item that we have on the agenda is item P5, PDE 260455, an appeal of a determination by the Development Review Director. Appeal 2025-00005 Meadow Point 2 Community Development District CDD and appeal to the determination of the Development Review Director to deny a request to install a gate across Wincrist Drive, site plan 2024 00162 presented by staff.

1:22:22Uh Patrick Dutter, Development Review Director.

1:22:27So as Gianna said, this is the appeal of uh one of my decisions on the application which we'll get into. Uh so the appellant Meadow Point two C D D is appealing a determination made by the Development Review Director to deny the request to install a gate across Rencrest Drive, where Meadow Point 2 meets Meadow Point 3. The location is obviously Rencrest Drive, located within Meadow Point 2 and Meadow Point 3, south of State Road 56, between Mansfield Boulevard and Meadow Point Boulevard,

1:22:57and north of Bearsley Drive. Yeah. So here is our location map. You can see 56 just to the north, Meadow Point is over on the east, Mansfield is on the west, Beardsley to the south, and then Rencrest, which is the residential road that runs between it, and the Star is the location of the proposed. Uh I don't want to call it a gate, but a a emergency arm, basically. Um so I'll

1:23:27I'll kinda keep the this presentation kinda high level. Uh the agenda pack was fairly detailed and has a lot of information on it, which I think you kinda already went over and uh it's probably worth just getting into the discussion portion. Um but primarily while we're uh denying this application was with this uh provision right here, which is the interconnecting street pattern portion of the land development code. So I'll just read it out loud. Continuation of existing street pattern and street access to adjoining property. The proposed street layout shall take into consideration the street system of the surrounding

1:23:58area. Streets in the proposed development shall be connected to streets and/or rights away in adjacent areas to provide for profit proper traffic circulation unless approved otherwise at the time of preliminary plan approval or unless all lots within the proposed minor rural subdivision, this is not a minor rural subdivision, Um, are five acres or greater, or unless lots are within an LFLD, which this one is not an LFLD. Uh street connections and rights of way to adjoining areas shall be provided to give access to such areas andor to provide for proper traffic circulation

1:24:28as determined necessary at the time of preliminary plan approval where the cul-de-sac is not provided. A temporary T-type turnaround, including barricades, shall be provided on all dead-end streets with more than two fronting lots or Parcels, uh, substantial collectors shall also comply with that section as well. But that's primarily why uh we denied the application. Um so this is just a a quick little um SNP I did using Google. So the top is the uh travel time it would take. So

1:24:58uh it's kind of hard to see, but on the right hand side that's where that gate would be. So if someone was on the opposite side of that gate right now, uh it's a three-minute travel time through on Runcrest to get out to that major intersection with very limited potential conflict points. Assuming that gate is installed, uh the residents of Meadow Point 3 would have no option but to go south, uh all the way out uh to Beardsley, up again, which is a seven-minute travel time with multiple potential conflict points. So

1:25:29a little bit more in the background. On August 20th, 2024, the appellant applied to construct a swing arm gate across Rencrest Boulevard, where it goes from MetaPoint 2 into MetaPoint 3 to act as a permanent road closure. After reviewing the requests, the LDC, the comp planned, and receiving input from other departments, the development review director denied the request, citing LDC 9016 D11 as the main factor. The appellant then submitted an appellation. Appeal persuading to LDC 4071A2, which states the Planning Commission is required to conduct a de novo

1:25:59hearing of the set appeal. And then like I said, the agenda memo contains more information, documents, rebuttal, support for the Development Review Director, information on the LDC Comp Plan, County Attorney's Office input, and prior court actions against the appellant. I'm going to go backwards just real quick.

1:26:21Um so where Rencrest meets Mansfield, um I believe C D two had originally installed there's there's an existing gate there. Um that wa they installed a swing gate arm in front of that which um made traffic backup uh a a bigger concern. I believe uh the county and um the district Went to court over that issue. Um, and the judge said that swing arm needed to be removed or uh kept in an

1:26:51upright position until they actually go through uh permitting process, which is why they submitted the site plan. Granted, they moved the location of where the swing arm would be so it's in the middle of C D 2 and C D three, but that's how we kind of got to where we are today.

1:27:07All right, Patrick, thank you.

1:27:09Any questions? Any

1:27:10questions for Patrick?

1:27:11Just real quick, can you go back to the the land development code section?

1:27:19I understand your logic, but isn't it The land development code. Did the very first words say the proposed street layout? Shall take into consideration the street. There nobody's proposing a street layout here. It's an existing street layout.

1:27:43I think they're saying at one point it was proposed.

1:27:46Yeah, so the I think the original application

1:27:48Well all right, and

1:27:49so then I wanted to ask this question.

1:27:53At the time these two middle point two and three were developed, was this section in the code and was it in the comprehensive plan? I know we have a continuation of street pattern.

1:28:10Sure. Um that's something I don't know off the top of my head. Uh I will say if you look at the subdivision plan and the plat uh that uh supported these developments, you could clearly see that uh I I think there's some argument maybe. Um I think the C D D uh assumes that that connection was only shown for the purposes of construction. Access. So Rencrest was only supposed to be a construction access to C D D3. We

1:28:41couldn't find any information on that. And it appeared that again when you look at the plat, which I think the plat was a part of the application package, it was showing a full construction up to the property line, which inferred that it was going to be a full connection. So when Metal Point 3 came on.

1:29:00I will also say I I believe they've shared this access for the last twenty five years without Any issue.

1:29:09Yeah, these are all public roads, right?

1:29:11So these are C D D roads and the nuance of a public road and a C D D road and a private road and an access drive. Um this this is where I I struggle a little bit and the the differences in the rights and I might lean on the county attorney's office a little bit here to to help. I'm not saying David has to speak. Um but I I think there are some distinctions that are important. Uh in this

1:29:37C D roads. Is our legal position that C D roads are public roads? Answer your question.

1:29:42Okay. And especially in this situation because I guess tax free bonds are utilized to construct said roads which IRS require.

1:29:50They're also owned by a public body.

1:29:53Right. What what I haven't figured out, or maybe I missed this, maybe we'll hear it from the appellant. Why why was a gate put here? What's what does the gate do?

1:30:05In that exact location or in general?

1:30:08Well, in the location that they put it, what was the purpose of why why are we why are they applying to put a gate there? Well why did they apply to put a gate there?

1:30:19I think I I could try, but I think it might be more appropriate for them to respond to the specifics.

1:30:27Okay.

1:30:27Anything else for Patrick? Um Patrick, one of the appellants' arguments I believe that I read was that the county had approved other gates on Rencrests. Sure. Um Uh Have you can you s show where these other gates are and is there any evidence? Did you find any evidence that the county had in fact to prove these other gates?

1:30:52Um so uh when we're talking about the network itself and ways to get to a collector road, so ways to get to Mansfield, ways to get to Beardsley, ways to get to Meadow Point, I believe there are four gates in total. I think two are with C D two and two are with C D D three. Um when we l looked we couldn't find any permits on the Records.

1:31:16Like can you just can you

1:31:18identify them? Uh maybe Pasco Mapper might be a easier way to do it, to to zoom in a little bit.

1:32:06All right, so that is number one, right there on the left where the Bullet is. So that's that's the first one. I believe that's the one where the swing arm was initially installed in front of that um I think was asked to be kept in an upright position.

1:32:19It's not exactly there, right? It's it's in a little bit.

1:32:22It yeah, it's in a little bit s seventy five hundred feet from the actual right away line.

1:32:28Okay.

1:32:28Um and then you can keep on

1:32:31that um

1:32:31Yeah, it you can uh keep on going down, um and then go down on that road now. Go south. South, keep going. And then you're gonna go yep. Uh and it snakes I think it's keep going that way more. Yep, snaking, keep going. There's another connection right there.

1:32:54So that's number two. And I think these are the only two and they'll probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these are the only two that C D D two has. And then s uh C D three, we're gonna go.

1:33:06Yes.

1:33:07I think there was one to the north of that too. Yeah, right there. So there's two uh I'm sorry, right there. Oh zoom out a little bit, Patty. Yeah right there. To the northwest. Northwest, yeah. So there's two gates.

1:33:23Okay, so

1:33:24so it's really three grades there, right?

1:33:26But three I'm not sure it connects. I think it might be an isolated pod. Can you zoom into that community just to

1:33:32like a gated community and then this other one serves as a gated community.

1:33:37Yeah. So did you find any evidence that the county had approved those gates?

1:33:44So I'm not sure I do not know if we looked at every single gate. That's something we can go back and clarify, but of the gates that we did look at, we did not see we could not find any building permits uh applied for for the gates. We could not find any plans um that officially approved the gates. One of the the older subdivision plans for Meadow Point 2 you could see very, very fainted out's concept of hey, there's probably gonna be a gate here, but there's no no arrow pointing and saying, Hey, this is a

1:34:14gate, there's it wasn't reviewed for for any type of gate. Now, granted, these were approved back in the nineties and I was not uh making those decisions back in the nineties, so I don't uh know other than just finding that information.

1:34:29Okay, thank you. Mm-hmm.

1:34:35And then C D D three has the gates to the east, right?

1:34:40C D D three has the gates and if you you zoom out more, Paddy's kind of a expansive area. Um and then go north more.

1:34:50Yeah, and if you zoom in um yeah and go zoom in a little more to the right. Yeah, so that line, that long line is is really the break over to the right, where you see the uh the pavement change a little bit. That's really the break between the two C D Ds. But yes if we go uh further to the east you'll find two gates uh this way for this C D D.

1:35:14And if I'm correct that line is the proposed location of the new Warning Gate.

1:35:19That is correct.

1:35:24So that's a that's his own pod there, I think.

1:35:27Yeah, it's his own pod. Uh there's an out more to the north and an out to the south, I believe. Oh no, sorry, not north. Um

1:35:36Yeah, you have to snake down. Okay, yeah, so there they are. One to the uh move your mouse to the left. Uh right there. And then also to your north along um that one right there.

1:35:56And then I have a question for Mr. Tanello. Um Is metal point three zoned for the schools that are on Mansfield.

1:36:09I need to take a look, but can you Actually I think the county has the school zones on the map on the map layers.

1:36:18Patty, can we check on Pasco Mapper if that's a layer? I think it might be under cultural. Cultural,

1:36:25I think so.

1:36:29Schools.

1:36:33let's see.

1:36:36Actually there might keep going. I think there's another one for elementary, middle and high. Yeah, there they are.

1:36:56So you can toggle those off for every Scoops on it.

1:37:03Okay, I'm I have an art I'm reading this, so

1:37:08That orange, it's all the same school zone, I believe that's right.

1:37:14John Long. Yeah. Okay, so is that the one that's on Mansfield? Yeah, you can look at it you can see it right there on the map. Just above that block. Yeah. And then wire grasses.

1:37:26So is it it's it's zoned for all the three schools that are on Main Street?

1:37:29Yeah.

1:37:30Okay.

1:37:34Go back to elementary there. It was a little

1:37:38Yeah.

1:37:40That's not part of that neighborhood though.

1:37:41Okay.

1:37:46Yeah. That's its own pod.

1:37:48Yeah, yeah. And then just go to high school just to be uh it's gonna be Wiregrass Ranch High School.

1:37:57Just so we cover them all in it.

1:38:02Yeah, try that.

1:38:11Yeah, so they're all zoned for the schools to the west. Yeah, right in that area there. Okay.

1:38:16It's like

1:38:16the

1:38:16whole complex.

1:38:22I'm not sure why it's showing four schools if there's only three schools there unless PHS C is there but it'll show in anyway.

1:38:29Yeah, so the people on the east side of the neighborhood would have a much longer commute to school if that gate was in

1:38:37place.

1:38:39And it would impact the bus routes too.

1:38:41Mm-hmm.

1:38:48Okay.

1:38:51All right. Holy's can you run away for the chair?

1:38:53No, he I'm sorry, I was asleep at the wheel here. Uh I don't think of anybody does anybody else have anything for Patrick? Okay. And now we're on to public comment. Yeah, the appellant. Oh the appellant, I'm sorry. Yeah. Please. And I think they were granted ten minutes, is that correct?

1:39:16Okay.

1:39:19Good afternoon.

1:39:24Um thank you for putting up the PowerPoint. My name is Lindsay Mozinski. I'm with Blinski Van Wyck, representing Meadow Point 2 C D. I see I have a clicker here. I'm guessing this is going to help me with my PowerPoint. Awesome. Thank you so much. Alright, so I want to thank you everybody for the time today to present and the additional time. As I stated, I represent Meadow Point 2 CDD. I also have in the audience with me some residents as well as the district manager's office, the district engineer, and some people from the Board of Supervisors. In case there are any questions, I can be deferred

1:39:54to them. So as we start, this is about the appeal of a denial of our site plan. The dates here, August 2024, we started this process with the help of the county to figure out what type of application needed to be submitted. We answered questions May 5th, 2025, and unfortunately we got a denial June 20th, 2025.

1:40:17And so this was part of the application we submitted. This is just a simple little screen showing what the proposed gate would look like. It is not a permanent road closure. It does allow for emergency vehicles to access the roadway. It also still allows for cyclists and pedestrians to cross through the different neighborhoods. This shows the location which is part of our package. It would be on obviously where Meadow Point 2 owns the road, but close to the boundary with Meadow Point 3. And

1:40:47this also shows here, just a little zoomed out. What Rencrest Drive looks like. It's a winding roadway that has multiple homes with driveways located directly on it. But in order to start, we need to go back a little bit. This CDD was established in 1994. So as Mr. Dutter had mentioned, A lot of these development orders date back to the nineties. And what I have listed here on the screen isn't even exhaustive, because metal point three and four have still been phasing out in the recent years. And

1:41:18you can see this is where we started as a county. This was the transportation network from nineteen eighty nine. and look how far you've grown. And so as part of those development orders You have had to take into consideration the traffic access and the safety of the residents within the county and their respective communities. And so when those traffic studies were done, when those development orders were put forward, when the county decided to approve them, they took those traffic

1:41:48studies into consideration, as well as the concerns from the residents, which were brought up numerous times during the public hearings. For example, during the hearing when Resolution 20036 was entered. A petition was actually presented. From Meadow Point and Meadow Point to residents that had 1,774 signatures, which petitioned the county to not allow feature residential development without making sure that State Road 56 was getting extended.

1:42:19So this has always been a topic of discussion as this community has been in place. And it's understandable because we've grown so much as a county. So Rencross Drive. This is the first page of the plaque which shows the dedication. And part of the language within it is that it's the intention of the owner that the district shall construct, operate, and maintain all street right-of-way as shown and depicted here on. And when you go to the page of the plat that has Rencrest Drive

1:42:49as Tract A, it also has the language that these respective tracks, tract A, is not dedicated to the public. It will never be com and is still to this day has not been dedicated to the public. It is not considered a public right of way as defined by Pasco County's Land Development Code. So Rencrest Drive, it is a local residential road. If you pull it up on your GSIS mapper, you're gonna see it's designated as residential and owned by Metal Point 2. C D. It runs

1:43:20east to west, it does intersect with Mansfield Boulevard, it does not intersect with Meadow Point Boulevard. It actually dead-ends into Meadow Point 3 into a cul-de-sac. And throughout the entirety of Rencrass Drive, it's lined on both sides with residential homes, single family homes, with driveways throughout. It is a narrow road. It is with the drive over gutters, not the permanent higher barriers. Um and as it was discussed by Mr.

1:43:50Dutter, there is a swing gate. That opens up at the intersection of Mansfield Boulevard and Rencrest Drive, as well as the other locations that would get you into this portion of Meadow Point too. Metal Point 3 also has these types of gates. to enter into their part of the community. Now as I stated, Rhinecrest Drive does not go into Meadow Point Boulevard and you'd actually would have to connect through it to a through a couple of different streets. in order

1:44:20to get there. But these roads located within the community, they're not considered public. They're considered private and that's under Chapter 316 of the Florida statutes. In fact, the community had to enter into a traffic enforcement agreement with the county just so that we can make sure that the local law enforcement were going to um enforce the rules of of the road.

1:44:45C can you define soft gate? I was just curious.

1:44:47Yeah, sure. So it basically means you have a button that you just have to press and someone just has to be, hey, got it. It goes through an electronic thing. Um our engineer will probably be able to better speak to it than I can since that's not exactly my area of expertise. But it doesn't prevent access, it just slows it down. It's still able to be accessed by any member of the public. It just takes you an extra second to get in there because you have to press a button. Um And there's obviously two the faster ways that emergency vehicles can get through the swing gate.

1:45:18So it's almost like um traffic calming?

1:45:21Exactly. Exactly. It's you know, can act like a deterrent, but if people wanted to, they just drive up, they can get in. I just yeah, set that on the record. So um but I was always stating Rencrest Drive it's narrow in width. It can't be widened because of these homes and residential driveways, and it was never designed, built or intended to function as any type of regional bypass or shortcut road. We know that the Planning Department is relying on 901.6 D11.

1:45:53My review of the code shows that this does not appear to have been part of the code when this development started back in 1990 and 1994 when the district was established. There's been extensive amendments to the code in 2011 and then 2024. But this community was built then. And so what we're trying to do though is make sure that the whole code is looked at and not just this little strict section. Because if you look at the beginning of 9016, you see that the intent and purpose of the section

1:46:24is to make sure that there's safety for vehic vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Additionally, throughout Chapter 901, 9013, Access Management. You want to preserve the flow of traffic in terms of safety, capacity and speed. And that's what we're looking to do here today. The code also requires you to follow the manual uniform standards for design. They also put safety as the first principle that needs to be taken into consideration. So yes, connectivity, that

1:46:54makes sense. Unfortunately though, one of the reasons that we brought forward this application is that it is our understanding and belief that the gates of Meadow Point 3 may not be really slowing down as much as they used to in the past, where they either may be remaining open or there's been some kind of bypass system that allows more people to get in more freely and more often. And because we know that this area though in general, Meadow Point 2, Meadow Point 3, does have gates. It

1:47:24was never meant to be a cut through street. As included as part of our package, we do have a section relating to a current, well current semi-recent rezoning petition 7530 from resolution number 2207RZ. Where there was a special condition under the right-of-way public dedication section, but it said streets required to ensure adequate traffic flow to and through the land are to remain public and should not be gated. Rank cross drive. private,

1:47:55gated. Therefore it's not required to ensure that there's adequate traffic flow here. And that is um evidenced by the different highway vision maps that have recently been amended by the county throughout the years. Because as you can see, even with the future twenty thirty-five classification Runcrest Drive is not on here. It's not meant to be a major collector or arterial road. And so although connectivity may be convenient

1:48:26Rencrest Drive was never meant to be that connector. for people outside of the community.

1:48:33And these maps obviously then put in place because the county knows that this area is developing, it's growing, it's expanding. They're taking these traffic considerations when making these decisions. You're looking at these safety considerations as well. But unfortunately due to the increased traffic, that have been able to cut through a street that was never meant for that. We have some safety issues in our neighborhood. That includes um property damage as well as people lose drugs. including

1:49:04children, buy vehicles that are driving at excessive speeds. throughout the street. As part of our application, we did have a traffic study that was done. It did show that all of the intersections around the area do meet applicable and acceptable levels. The 1F that was found is something that was already existing even without any type of closure or arm barrier at Rencrest Drive. We're actually looking at double the amount of traffic that you would see in the average

1:49:34neighborhood that has as many homes as we do on that street. And so what we're looking for here is for the county to consider safety over convenience. I know that there were a couple of questions regarding the other similar streets, which I can't answer that question, but I know I'm slow on time, so I want to make sure I get through the rest of my presentation here. But the county mentioned in their agenda memo that, oh, we shouldn't have a problem. You guys are gated, you're only

1:50:04having your residents within these communities access it. But it's interesting and conflicting when we had our response to comment period back in May of 2025 when the county actually said that we are supposed to be using this as a reliever road. And I do respectfully request that I may have another minute to finish up my speech and then answer questions if necessary. Thank you. Um so So as I was saying, it's conflicting information. Stating we're supposed to be a parallel reliever road for east-west

1:50:34traffic between 56 and Beardsley. But yet, oh we don't have a problem because we're gated. Can't be both ways. And so that's why we're requesting that this county look at safety. Another thing in the agenda memo is that yes, vehicle accidents happen, and there can also be the occasional trauma airlift. I'm not sure when that became the standard, but I don't think it should be acceptable, especially when we have the option and the choice and the chance to make it different. And so that's

1:51:04what we're trying to avoid. We're trying to avoid the trauma airlifts that have occurred on our street by putting up an emergency service gate. to reduce the traffic. Because we can't control what Metal Point 3 does, but we can control what we can do within our own boundaries. And so safety should always be at the forefront of this development review. And we request that you reverse the previous denial by the planning um department. And allow that the gate barrier

1:51:35be implemented and that the county choose safety over convenience. Thank you. Could

1:51:40I ask a question? Yeah.

1:51:43Well If you can start. Of course.

1:51:48What kind of permit approval did you apply for?

1:51:52So we had in a conversation, and I do have Jerry Whited with the district engineer who here who was part of that process who might be able to better answer. We had requested what type of application would be needed here because we weren't sure. The county seemed to be unsure potentially at the beginning. And then they gave us, I believe, a substandard road application, but then said we still need to go through the whole PSP process with the site plan. Yeah. So there was a pre application meeting, there was a submittal, the fees, and then comment period.

1:52:22So a preliminary site plan?

1:52:25And if I could defer to Jerry Whited here with engineering as he's nodding his head, he was sworn in earlier today too. But yes, it's my understanding it was a prel preliminary development plan.

1:52:35Site plan. With the stormwater uh plan as well, which is gave us your name and address, please. Uh my name's Jerry Whited. I'm with uh BDI engineering. Okay, thank you. So you had to apply for a preliminary site? Plan. That's correct. With a stormwater plan requested, um as well as the fees that accompany that, which are very substantial.

1:52:59Okay. There was a lot of ambiguity surrounding what type of application submittal that we would put forth, and there were many attempts to clarify that after our pre-application meeting over several months, and we moved forward based off of the suggestion and recommendations that were made during the meeting to go with the with the full PS. people.

1:53:29We did we did also petition for a straight to construction um application process and that was denied.

1:53:37Who maintains the road?

1:53:39It is strictly C D D uh maintained. We the residents of the district pay special assessments through their non battle non ad valorem taxes that goes towards the infrastructure. Okay,

1:53:52so let me ask can I ask the engineer a question? Let's say Yeah. I don't know. There's a sinkhole opens up and now there's a big hole in the road. Okay, and you have to fill the hole in the road and It's your it's the C D D's responsibility to fill the hole in the road and pave the road? If it's on the Meadow Point two portion of Runcrest, it would be the Meadow Point two community development district. And are you required to get a permit from any agency to f fill that hole and pave that road? Not

1:54:22for maintenance purposes. Mainten general maintenance purposes we wouldn't seek a permit for. All right. What if you wanted to widen the sidewalk along Rencrest Drive? We would

1:54:36change would we would request a permit or we would at least come to the county for guidance.

1:54:43The CG is not exempt from any county permitting, so they're they're treated like any other Developer basically. Okay,

1:54:50but where I uh I'll I'll tell you where I'm going. Okay. 'Cause you're gonna look you can go look at this.

1:54:57She The application that is denied is a preliminary site plan. That's correct. All right. And it's a preliminary site plan on a right of way? For the right of way. That's correct.

1:55:13And to clarify, not a public right of way, but excuse

1:55:16me. You're gonna have to give your name and address every time you speak. So let's take turns.

1:55:21Sure.

1:55:22Okay.

1:55:23Thanks. Sorry, I think. Just for the record,

1:55:25so we have to know who you are.

1:55:26Understood. Lindsay Mosinski with Kalinski Van Wyke.

1:55:29So then both Mr. Engineer and Mr. County Attorney. A preliminary site plan is required when someone does development. So what I'm trying to figure out is how does how Where does putting up a gate arm across a road fall in the definition of development directly in

1:55:53the property?

1:55:57The court actually determined that it is development. All right, that's what I need to know. So so

1:56:02that that it is appropriate is since it's development that

1:56:05it is appropriate to get a site. They actually on that regard they're following what the court told them that The erection of a gate on Rencrest is development and they're required to get approval from the county to do that. And they

1:56:18they say that the gate acts like a

1:56:23Speed button. That the gate functions more as a traffic calming device. It's not necessarily a blockade, doesn't necessarily stop traffic from going through, but only slows it from

1:56:35Lindsay Mosinski. Um so the gate that we are proposing is an arm gate barrier that would allow emergency service vehicles to go through. The 2024 case, which is within your package, is a case that was actually dismissed by the county's failure to prosecute and any injunction or court ruling is not rest judicata on this issue. Um and also the placement of that. There's still the swing gate

1:57:05access though into Rencrast Drive from Mansfield Boulevard. That's the one where I was stating it slows the access but does not prevent the access.

1:57:18So do you have to get out of your car to Push your button.

1:57:21I believe it's just a rolling down the window type of thing.

1:57:24Okay, so Well let's go back to what was denied. Um so

1:57:35I guess what I'm trying to figure out is

1:57:39Why did you why did you not seek an alt standard from nine oh one six D eleven?

1:57:45Uh

1:57:46'Cause you 'cause you your all your arguments are that This meets the intent and purpose of the code. So that sounds like an alt standard argument.

1:57:56And I do not disagree with you, sir. Uh the first thing that we did with our communications with the county as Mr. White had stated, was to find out what type of application or permit that would need to be processed in order to see if we could get the gate. It's not until we got the denial to see that there was going to be this strict interpretation. I do understand the code does provide for an alternative relief, but this application was our first step, not knowing the I understand that

1:58:26I'm trying to figure so but trying to figure out how this is even properly before the Planning Commission because

1:58:34My concern is there's a statute that says that you cannot take any action that's inconsistent with our code. Very clear. Section 190.00434 to statutes. One could certainly argue that this appeal is an action that's inconsistent with 9016 D eleven. No. If you seek an alt standard under our code, that's at least an argument that's not an action inconsistent with our code, because it's an alt standard

1:59:05under our code. But you didn't seek an alt standard under our code. You just appealed.

1:59:15I would argue that the fact that one of the reliefs that you have avail that we have available to us under Chapter 407 is that we can do an appeal when we do not like the result or do not believe that the result from from the planning department was correct. So although I can

1:59:35but you're but you're the but the result would be inconsistent with that code section.

1:59:42The result could be inconsistent, but the code allows for us to appeal to you, the Planning Commission, and as well as the Board of County Commissioners. Because there is an avenue to appeal, it means that there are some times when the first level that looks at it doesn't get it right. So what we're stating is the planning department did not get this right. And because of that, we don't think that we're not in compliance with sections of the code. Will

2:00:09you elaborate on what you think the planning department didn't get? Right, they denied it based on continuation of existing street pattern. What part of that section of the code do you feel is not applicable to the to your situation?

2:00:26Uh the continuing street pattern, if it was something where we would be able to control the access of the continuing street from meadow point three, then yes, the continuing street pattern I could see a more strict compliance with that. But the fact that Metal Point two is not able to control who accesses the street from Metal Point Three, that's where the continuing street function, as well as the fact that there because as Mr. Dutter admitted as well,

2:00:56these development orders are old. Not everything is necessarily accessible through the county due to the age or in digital format. And so yes we do have a plat that ends at Rencrest Drive, but have still, you know There's not necessarily it could be inferred that there's a continuation, but there hasn't been a concrete showing that yes, this is a continuation.

2:01:23That seems like that's in conflict with the code section. I understand why you have your arguments why you think that

2:01:35That you should be granted relief from that code section, okay? And that's normally processed as an alternative standard request, and there's engineers even on this body that process those every day of the week, okay? Um when they say that there's good reasons why the code section shouldn't apply in my particular case. But that's different than saying we just don't want to comply with the code. I mean I mean I mean

2:02:06And particularly because there's a statute on point that says the C D D can't take an action inconsistent with our code. So I guess what I'm concerned about is I don't even know how the Planning Commission can rule in your favor If we don't even ha if you didn't even file an al request for an alternative standard

2:02:26I mean unless you can convince the Planning Commission that nine oh one sixty two eleven Just doesn't apply to the situation.

2:02:37And so We're going to stand by our presentation as well as the materials we submitted here. But what we're looking for is, yes, for the county to apply the code, but the Planning Commission can review what the Planning Department has done. If it is the Commission's decision to continue the denial, then my client is going to look at other avenues, which may include either another appeal, which we are warned. before the Board of County Commissioners or maybe looking at the alternative stand of relief. That

2:03:07is maybe something we could do. But to do it before now would have been premature because we didn't know how the commission would go, or I'm sorry, the department would rule until June 20th and then we had a deadline of 30 days if we wanted to appeal. So we're just making sure that we're going through and exhausting our administrative remedies so that we don't lose them. I'm not saying we might not ever go for an alternative standard relief, but we couldn't even know if we needed to do it until we got this time.

2:03:36I I don't even know planning t to stop with a grant deal from your standard, so I should Yeah,

2:03:42but that's my question, David, to to you, what um I'm listening to you and I'm I'm trying to figure this out. Okay, you're telling well you Mr. Dutter denied them based on the continuation of existing street pattern and then you're saying, Well, you didn't apply for an alt standard. Well, why would Mr. Dutter approve an alt standard?

2:04:02He probably he may not have. I mean, I guess we can ask Mr.

2:04:05Dutter if he said, I'm just trying to figure out why would his opinion change depending on what form this was submitted on, whether it's a preliminary site plan or some alternative standard. Okay, is

2:04:16it well I don't think that it would change Mr. Dutter's I suspect he would probably deny the outstander too. Okay. The the problem I have is that I'm dealing with a statute that says They can't take an action that's inconsistent with the code. All right.

2:04:38Most people don't have this statute that says this. Okay. So I think one could argue that if you file an alt standard request that that's that's a way to get around the statute because now you're not taking an action inconsistent with the code because the code allows you relief from the code. Does that make sense? Sure. But they didn't request that relief. And so you're suggesting now I'm saying they're direct you can't you can't grant their appeal because you're just suggesting that they're it would violate the statute.

2:05:14You may ultimately decide that even that even if they file a request for an alternative standard, he denies that you would still deny their appeal. I don't I don't want to weigh into that issue because you made that's that's a decision for the Planning Commission. I'm only trying to deal with the legal issue, is that I don't know that you could grant I think that if you granted their appeal today, I think you would be violating the statute.

2:05:35And if I could just respond to that, sir. Just to reiterate as well, as we know the land development code has been amended extensively twenty twenty four and twenty eleven. And the street design was not in at the time. This section of the code was not part of it when the community was originally developed. So when this original development was done, this was not part of the code.

2:05:59But you've applied you applied for new development at the time that that it clearly is in the code.

2:06:05And we did make the application and the type of it was because of the way that the county phrased that we needed to do it. So I understand that that can be slightly conflicting, but the fact that, you know, a retroactive application may not be appropriate here, considering the fact that this development I

2:06:22understand how it's retroactive when the you're applying for a new New development of a new gate. Where where the code exists today.

2:06:31Right, but the section of the code has to do with continuous street patterns and if a continuous street pattern was not a requirement when the street was built, then I would argue it is retroactive application.

2:06:42But the street pattern exists today and you're blocking it with a new form of development.

2:06:48With a lifted gate barrier for emergency services?

2:06:52Can David,

2:06:52can you did the judge give an explanation of how he gate qualifies as development?

2:07:00Yes, it's in the ruling I can read to you what he said.

2:07:06I apologize because I didn't get a chance to review this because this is third probably the fifth or sixth Planning Commission agenda. I mean, that we've gotten beyond the Friday. This we did get promised that they would come no later than the Friday before the Planning Commission hearing.

2:07:23Um give me a second, I gotta pull it up.

2:07:36It says the erection of security it's it's this is page

2:07:42four of nine of the court order and it's so it's it's exhibit B and it's It's the order that says order denying motion to dissolve temporary injunction.

2:07:59I'm sorry, which page of the

2:08:01general

2:08:03Page oh the agenda page is give me a second.

2:08:10Agenda page twenty four.

2:08:15It's paragraph nineteen.

2:08:20Is that helping you at all? It's a paragraph that starts with the erection of security arm barriers.

2:08:29I'm on the online version. It's exhibit B complaints and affidavits. Do you see that?

2:08:38Yeah, it's way down there.

2:08:42Sunder all the um numbered exhibits.

2:08:47I know this is a very lengthy item, so

2:09:04So it's page twenty four of exhibit B.

2:09:13Pretty. Number four.

2:09:17Because they can't blame you for not not having read it.

2:09:21Yeah.

2:09:29Exhibit B, I think it's on two oh seven. Conditions of approval?

2:09:35Um it's not a condition of approval. This is part of the order this is part of the court order.

2:09:42So this is you said page twenty four of that? Twenty four of twenty nine page of it B. Yeah.

2:09:47Yes. Did you find it?

2:09:50Yeah.

2:09:52Paragraph nineteen.

2:09:54Okay.

2:10:02He didn't exactly provide an explanation. He just decl made the declaration, but whatever.

2:10:10Well, eighteen also talks about this too as well.

2:10:19Okay.

2:10:23Yeah. So I got a couple of questions when you guys

2:10:29Just clarify one other statement that you made about the emergency airlifts.

2:10:35Yes.

2:10:35Are you insinuating that there have been traumatic accidents on this road because there's no gate?

2:10:42Uh yes, there have been um at least two people who have been airlifted due to being hit by a vehicle on Rencrest Drive. Uh and that is one of the driving components for trying to put up a barrier.

2:10:57I understand. Okay.

2:10:59And I do have residents here who are more familiar with that if you would like any further information.

2:11:06So I noticed that um you mentioned based on uh Rourke engineering traffic study that sixty percent of vehicles on Ringcrest were non-local, is that right? Yes. Um

2:11:22so I I guess they're getting through the soft gate, right? So because it's a soft gate they're able to buzz themselves in. Um and so this proposed warning gate, the residents of Meta Point two and three will not have the ability to open that gate, right? So it's only emergency use and pedestrian and bicycles only, right?

2:11:44Correct. The vehicular traffic would be uh limited besides emergency vehicles, but they're still would be able to kids if they're biking to school or walking to school would still be able to do so.

2:11:55So you're stating that the the the Impedus of this. measure or the r really the crux of this problem is that there's so many non-residents that are using this as a cut-through. Why wouldn't you provide uh why you why are you creating a gate that would c also cut off the use of residents within the community? 'Cause I think that's the the biggest issue.

2:12:16So middle point two CDD's concern are the Middle Point two CDD residents. And so we are making sure that they still have access to go throughout the community. It's just an unfortunate consequence that Middle Point three would not be able to travel through Rencrest Drive if the gate is approved. It is not, you know, with bad will or bad intention that we're doing that. It's just because we're trying to limit anyone else who may come in through those soft gates of Meadow Point Three.

2:12:42So so why wouldn't you at least allow access to residents of Meadow Point Two and Three to be able to open and close that gate to at least access e either side of the neighborhood?

2:12:53that might be something that is possible. I am not familiar with the engineering feats of what type of gate that would be and whether or not that would be a code or a clicker system. I would just uh thinking out loud that even if that's possible, if it's a code or a clicker, that residents would still be able to share it with other people or potentially uh duplicate those. But yes, that might be a good alternative if it's possible and I would have to speak with the engineer as to what that would look like.

2:13:23Yeah, I'm not saying I'm in favor of the gate necessarily. I'm just saying that that's definitely uh would be one of the major issues is cutting off one side of the neighborhood from the other. across the established street pattern over the last 25 years. So um have and and so the follow-up question I have to this is is have you considered, you know, again, you're citing that the reason for this gate is because of the traffic uh going through Rencrests and accidents and things like that. Have you considered the use of other types of traffic calming or applying for

2:13:53other types of traffic calming features? Stop signs, speed pumps, things like that.

2:13:59Yes, that has been looked at and uh Jerry Whitey would be able to speak more due to the fact that the houses are close to each other, which means there's driveways every so often. It doesn't allow for there to be a different type of traffic calming device that makes sense that wouldn't interfere with someone getting in and out of their driveway. It's my understanding that this county might prefer the tables more than they do the humps. The only location that would be possible if we were to look at the gate or

2:14:29I'm sorry the map

2:14:34you're going through a whole slew of houses. It's very close to where we're proposing to put the gate in the first place. Um But Rencrest Drive is, you know, the top wavy street up there, the Beardsley ones on the bottom. But you can see kind of close to where it says sparkling faith.

2:14:53In between those streets there, that would be the only place where we might be able to do a traffic calming device as well as where we propose to put the gate, but where we've noticed that the traffic is still able to go at excessive speed and where the accidents have occurred are where the houses are located towards the west side, closer to Mansfield.

2:15:10So I'm just doing a rough count just on the Meadow Point two side. It looks like there's seven different opportunities to have a four-way stop. that right there, I mean not saying you'd even need to use seven stop signs, but I mean, you know, even a couple of stop signs has proven to be a really good traffic calming Device.

2:15:29There's a stop sign. Sorry, Jerry White of BDI Engineering. There is a stop sign uh to the west at that first intersection that stops traffic. Um there's no intersections, however, in the area where we see the most property damage and where the incidents have occurred. So where is that area? That would be uh in between the if you look to the far the farthest uh west, the first intersection. and then the the next intersection to the east there, that that's where cars gain all

2:15:59the speed and at this point there's no traffic calming so they can gain additional speed coming from the area where we're proposing the gate.

2:16:06So it looks like you're talking about the intersection right

2:16:08insideways

2:16:09are

2:16:09Green

2:16:10Grenville?

2:16:12Really if you just look where all the driveways are on the on Run Crest on the west side.

2:16:17Okay.

2:16:20We had also, I believe, submitted a diagram of this with our application. To your first point, sir, there was a in the year 2000, there was a interlocal agreement for roadway use because both of these roadways, Meadow Point 2 and Meadow Point 3, are maintained by those districts separately with the OM funds from the their own respective communities. Actually, a joint use agreement entered in so that Metal Point 2 residents and Metapoint 3 residents could use each other's

2:16:50roadways. That had a 20-year term and it was able to be canceled by either party, and it was canceled appropriately with the appropriate measures by Metal Point 2 in 2019-20 range. So that that joint use agreement for Metal Point 3 and Metapoint 2. residents to use the roads of the other communities that are being paid for by the other communities was canceled at that time. The reason why they entered into the agreement in the first place is because Meta Point three was developed

2:17:21with the use of this roadway and it was supposed to be two designated

2:17:25I think that's a moot argument anyway because I th I think Mr Goldstein would argue that um those are public roadways regardless of of who says that they have control over it. So but um I I I think you've answered my question. I just wanted to see what other options you've explored besides installing a a gate that nobody can get through. Especially for the existing residents.

2:17:51And Lindsay Mosinski again, I'm not sure if this map is a little better to show you how on the left side of the picture the west side that that's just a continuation of homes and there really aren't the intersections there that would necessarily um allow for proper signage with stop signs and such. I know it does cut off, but it does extend more into homes t as you get closer to Mansfield.

2:18:17So you're saying stop signs aren't feasible? Yeah, I I don't understand that point.

2:18:23I'm not saying stop signs aren't feasible but as they are or maybe I am. I will let Jerry go actually. But Rencrest Drive because it you do have streets that go onto Rencrest Drive, like the Loop. Um and Tremont Drive, so those would have the stop signs, but people traveling on Rencrest Drive, you don't have a break in the road to really allow for that stop. But Jerry as the engineer would be better able to uh explain since he has done traffic studies before with

2:18:53stuff or signage.

2:18:58You're saying you know a stop sign would basically be in front of somebody's driveway, is what you're saying. Yeah. Well I can see that in a couple of instances, but

2:19:06And uh

2:19:07there's

2:19:07uh Jerry WDI engineering. There's just the four um opportunities right there, they're all clustered together. As you head west, that's where we see the majority of the property damage and um traffic accidents as you get past those intersections before you get to the next intersection to the west, before you get to Mansfield.

2:19:28Are those accidents primarily involving residents of both areas or are they out people from the outside? I wouldn't be able to answer

2:19:37offhand, I'm not sure, sir.

2:19:39We Lindsey Mozinski, we do have a member of the Board of Supervisors who would be able to better answer the questions because I believe he's more familiar with the accidents that have occurred in the neighborhood. Um it's my understanding it's residents andor children because they might be walking through to go to the schools that are off of Mansfield Boulevard. But if you would like Mr. Signoretti to speak to that, he may be able to answer the quote.

2:20:00question, yeah, reply.

2:20:08Yes, sir. Robinson, you're ready? Uh 30716-Nickerson Loop in Wesley Chapel, Florida. I'm

2:20:14sorry, sir. Could you repeat the question?

2:20:20Are they Are are they happening with residents of both neighborhoods or are they outside uh uh outsiders driving through your area?

2:20:29Oh they're a mix of all, so it's not it's the um

2:20:32I'm the preponderance I'm talking about.

2:20:34I'm sorry?

2:20:35the preponderance of them.

2:20:37The prepond I I would need to get that data from Florida Highway Patrol, but we do um hire Florida Highway Patrol um to go outside. They they were not originally um they were originally allowed, I'm sorry, to patrol inside and they were pulling cars over and they were telling us that m they're pulling people over from Union Park, Metal Point Four Mm-hmm. um mostly non residents. Um and then I guess something happened with the Florida Higher Patrol in a different neighborhood in a

2:21:07different county, so they don't patrol inside anymore. They just stay out on man split.

2:21:11What's your what's your feeling about developing a a system where people from both neighborhoods could get through easily.

2:21:19I'm I'm not a hundred percent opposed to it. Um But I do the so uh a few of you gentlemen have answered uh asked a couple of questions. I made some notes if if I would if I may I can answer some of them for you. Um the the the reason for you know why the why now is because um Uh unfortunately we couldn't do anything for twenty years 'cause we had a joint use agreement. I do hope or believe that might change the legal argument because the the construction of the continuous

2:21:49pattern was conditional upon a joint use agreement. That's the only reason why it was allowed and and at the time the county allowed it to be termed by either party. Um another uh thing that um was asked is uh w you know uh I I think this gentleman mentioned about the soft gate, is that how he asked

2:22:08you he didn't ask you to come on permit arguments, he had

2:22:10a

2:22:10very specific question.

2:22:12Oh I'm sorry.

2:22:16Yes sir.

2:22:16Yeah, you you will have opportunity to speak if if you want to talk about something else.

2:22:20Yes sir.

2:22:21So I I'm trying to read you but I'm are you saying you don't want to share the access with uh with your neighbors?

2:22:36It's not a it's not a matter of a lack of share.

2:22:38Because you've done it for twenty for twenty years, so

2:22:41yes sir. Uh but within that twenty years uh since the development was built there was one school there and there was no State Road 56 or anything. So now there's three schools there. So we have approximately three thousand cars a day coming through a gated community.

2:22:56So what you're saying is it mostly is from the outside?

2:22:59I'm sorry?

2:23:00So what you're telling me is it it is mostly people from the outside.

2:23:03Um well according to our um engineering study there's six hundred uh I'm sorry, sixteen hundred non resident cars a day uh coming on the Metal Point two side.

2:23:14You said sixty percent. So um

2:23:17Which

2:23:18so so if you could wave a magic wand and eliminate those that sixty percent, then you seem to think that the problem would be solved?

2:23:26Well certainly uh no problem would ever be solved, but it it would be exponentially right if you have one of ten drivers I is a speeder and you remove tax domain. Right. So uh just mathematically I think it would exponentially decrease.

2:23:51Mm-hmm.

2:23:58Okay. Um did you have something else you want to add?

2:24:02Um I think that we covered everything. Um I know there were more comments discussing the twenty twenty four case, so I just want to reiterate there that there was no final order or injunction ever imposed and ever went through for a final adjudication on the merit. So I do request that the commission not really take that as much into consideration.

2:24:25Correct. It was for a different gate that was in front of the current swing gate. So during that time, the swing gate was left open. The swing gate does unfortunately allow people to tail behind. I believe that the intent when they were looking to do uh the gate for the twenty twenty four case that was mentioned was to see if it could prevent the tailgators going through. Um but also so That's why it was done that way. Um it was removed. And there was the court rulings, but

2:24:55it also stated that maybe it shouldn't have been put up without the county approval and now we're trying to get county approval but for a different location and a different reason.

2:25:06And if there's no further questions, I thank you for your time.

2:25:10All right, thank you. Thank you. All right, who's next?

2:25:16Don't public comment now.

2:25:20Anybody sign up to screen?

2:25:23We have um two individuals in person sign up for public comment. Uh Robert Signaretti and the second is Attorney Grimoff. Um and then we have one gentleman online, Matt Riser.

2:25:36Okay, Robert, why don't you come up first?

2:25:40Robert Signer ready, 30716, Nickerson Loop, Wesley Chapel, Florida, 33543. So again, as we mentioned earlier, it was conditional when the road was was approved. It was a joint use agreement. So there was or should have been an expectation that it could be ceased or terminated if either party chooses to do so. Um regarding the inconvenience, while there unfortunately has been no mention in any of the um the

2:26:10o opposition feedback of the inconvenience or safety on the Metal Point two side. But Pasco County did their study, Mr. Dutter's team did that, and that the maximum driver impact is two point seven miles to State Road 56 and 1.5 to Beardsley. Metal Point 3 resident called ABC Action News on your side and they went from one side of the gate proposed gate to the other in under five minutes. On the safety side, both residents from both CDs as well as the boards provide public comments and testimony

2:26:40indicating Rencrest Drive has considerable safety issues. excessive driving, vehicles leaving the road, collisions uh with cars and property. It's been bad enough that two individuals had to be airlifted to trauma centers. I'm not sure what other gated road in the United States can make that claim. While all this goes on and while this occurs, please keep in mind if you gentlemen did not know the soft gate that they were referring to at the entrance to Mansfield and Rencrest is inside the school zone. It is literally in

2:27:11the area marked between the school zone warning lights. So this is why it was challenging to comprehend the significant effort expended to address the five-minute inconvenience. for Metal Point 3 drivers and not the documented safety concerns and the school zone involved. I do understand some some suggestions have come up for speed bumps, but they don't reduce car volume. Globally available data as well as Pasco County's own traffic department. Show

2:27:41that vehicle speeds can tend to increase between speed bumps or tables. Drivers may drive around to avoid them and they can delay emergency response time. And I believe uh that adding any potential EMS delays or even more speeding um is is really an unacceptable risk and sh and should not even be considered. Um and I also believe a denial uh would improperly prioritize convenience over safety and deliberately allow these extra sixteen hundred vehicles to continue into the active school

2:28:11zone. when we now have an opportunity to to divert them. And with that in mind, we respectfully request that appropriate judgment be exercised as it was for Hazel Avenue in Hudson and that the gate be approved. Thank you.

2:28:26All right, thank you. Any questions?

2:28:29Okay. Who's next?

2:28:32We have a Tony Grimma.

2:28:42Is there anybody in the audio anybody else in the audience that wants to speak? That hasn't signed up?

2:28:49I like the captain. I I don't think so.

2:28:54Okay, we'll take care of that one after this man's done.

2:28:58My name's Tony Grimm. I live at [address removed] on the corner of Rancrest Drive. And uh The problem that I've got is I bought the house. Two and a half years ago. I took two months to move from Texas to here. Yeah, the first night I spent there, I said, What's going on here? Is there a racetrack out there? Well the high speed races and the loud cars

2:29:28going by here. Yeah, I couldn't accept it. In the middle of the night it was twenty-four-seven. So I attended a board meeting from the CDD. They tell me it's a private road. So I called a county, I said, uh the transportation all the diff departments in the county that I could uh find and they all said Uh we have no jurisdiction over that. I called the sheriff to say, can we set up a A speed trap?

2:29:59to uh stop some of these cars and impound them the ones, you know, do some uh traffic stops. Uh no it can't because it's a private road. We have no jurisdiction. What I want to ask if any of you people have been at that location at any time, raise your hand please. Okay, so what are we talking about? We're talking about a private road and the county is encroaching on county road trying to make a decision. It's like uh Putin saying, I want to get into Uh into Ukraine.

2:30:31Okay. Unless you live there, you have no business. dictating what the residents of the Rancherous community should do. Residents rule. Thank you.

2:30:44Thank you.

2:30:46All right. Who would like to come up next? Come on state come forward and just state your name and address.

2:30:58John Piccarelli, Metal Point two, C D Chair, Resident Uh, two nine five two nine, Eagle Station Drive, Wesley Chapel, Florida. Um I first

2:31:08needs to be sworn everybody.

2:31:10You oh you aren't torn? Okay.

2:31:12Can you swear

2:31:13apart

2:31:13until the proof is a little bit to go? Absolutely. Thank

2:31:16you. Thank you.

2:31:17So at first we didn't sign in to speak, but you know what, listening to the case before us about the residents with the land development And how important it was to everyone in the room, including the board and That lady there that I'm sorry I don't know her name. You mentioned quite often. Quality of life came up quite often about people that live in areas. And you know what, being the chair on this board, it's very important for the quality of life of my residents. The people who live in Metal Point two on Rencrest Drive are inconvenienced by the

2:31:47traffic And the residents of Metal Point 3 who come flying through their community. They have the right to live in the same subdivision like the rest of us do, where they can back out of their driveway without being T boned. Or worry about walking their dog and getting run over. or that their kids can't play in their front yard because they're afraid they're gonna get killed. So The inconvenience for a separate subdivision and all the other people who live around there to drive five extra minutes

2:32:18is very important to me as the Chairman of that board to make sure that the people who live in my community Can live safely. and get the same aspect of living in their community that everybody else does in MetaPoint too. Why do they have to live up a different standard because someone doesn't want to drive five extra minutes? We're not avoiding the safety vehicles to get through in case there's an emergency. We're just there to stop the traffic and avoid having the accidents and people getting hurt and

2:32:48restore the quality of life that we were all so concerned about on the prior case of people who bought property. What about these people who bought property? And if you think they bought into this knowing this was going to happen, you're incorrect. I don't want to tell you the old stories that I know from the developer that there was supposed to be ball fields where Metal Point 3 is or a golf course when those people bought their p their homes. It was never supposed to be another community. That came afterwards from the same guy who signed both lines on the joint

2:33:18use agreement. The only other thing I want to add is one of the other board members wanted you to know. That MetaPoint 3 was developed and not to exceed 183 homes under special section, there are over 470 homes in that community, which exceeds that. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.

2:33:37Thank you. Thank you.

2:33:40Uh okay, come forward.

2:33:49And I will need to swear you too, I guess, huh? Mm-hmm. Okay.

2:33:59And your name and address?

2:34:00Kelly Wright. I live at [address removed] and I absolutely hate public speaking, so please bear with me. I was not gonna speak today. I'm sorry?

2:34:09We don't bite, you're

2:34:09good. Okay, I know. Um I was not gonna speak today. However, listening, just as John had said, several things have not been mentioned that I feel that need to be mentioned. Um I'm not sure how familiar you are with a C D D board, but we do have fees that we pay. And Metal Point 3 has not paid one dollar Not one dollar. To pay for that road that is now falling apart. They have never paid for the gates. And I do believe the gates, I'd have to ask, John and Rob, the gates cost three times as much to maintain as they do in our community. I

2:34:40live in Iverson. And I also can go through Rencrest. Um Because we do have a connecting road. So that is one thing: the gates and the roads, MetaPoint 3, they have no money. And we can't, we tried. You can't share funds through the CDD. You can't. And also the gate that's going up is gonna be a complete cost to MeadowPoint 2. MeadowPoint 3 will not be assisting with that either. So maintaining that, we're gonna have cameras as well there, and that will also be maintained by Metal Point 2. The property values on Rencrest. are

2:35:10not good. I do believe there are Forty five homes on Rencrest, forty five ish, and I think fifteen of them are rental homes. And people don't stay in them long. The two people that were airlifted were both hit by Metal Point 3 residents. I'm not sure why somebody hasn't said that, but that is fact. Both of them that were hit were hit by a Metal Point 3 resident. One gent gentleman has a traumatic TBI and will never be the same. Um And I do believe there also has been at least one

2:35:40dog killed, hit and killed. And I don't know if the dog was hit, but I don't believe he was killed.

2:35:47I have been um a resident in Everson for nine years in February. I went to my first meeting. After I moved in two weeks later, and this was hard to be mentioned then, our neighborhood has been suffering with this for nine years. Nine years. It's been horrible. My daughter just started driving a few years ago. She has almost been hit head on. By someone passing someone else on Ren Press. My mother, who's also in the crowd, lived with us for a couple years, she was almost hit head on.

2:36:18by somebody, passing somebody on RonCrest. Coming from three. You can tell when they're coming from three. 'Cause you cannot take a right. on Rencrest from our last road. And already be up to fifty miles an hour. And our police officer, again, I don't know why it was mentioned, he has caught at least four or five people going 55 to 60 on that road. Thank you.

2:36:38Thank you very much. If you'd like to come forward please. Um whoever wants to speak, please come up on the front bench there. I wanna save a little time. And so we'll need to swear you in?

2:36:51Yeah, we might as well do both heavy at the same time.

2:36:55Oh I don't know. Should we go?

2:37:02Hi, my name is uh Christine Signoretti. I live at [address removed]. Um Just want to speak as far as like a being a mom in the neighborhood. Uh my kids are grown now, but I've had to deal with this and I could never let my kids play outside without me being there. I have guarded all the neighborhood kids because the speeding is horrendous. You have no idea what we've had to live with. I'm sorry, it's very emotional for me. I don't, you know. It's very

2:37:32bad. Besides the development of three schools outside of our neighborhood, the traffic is already horrendous with the three schools. But we've got Residents from Metal Point 3 screaming down our neighborhood constant. If you put in speed bumps It's already loud enough with the traffic. I can't imagine listening to cars going over speed bumps or any other kind of deterrent. It is so loud you can hear it in our our patio. When we sit on the backyard, we can hear cars racing up and down the road all the

2:38:02time. And that's not what I bought. That's not what I bought into. Um the second thing I want to say is is that Uh when you turn from our road to co our into our neighborhood on Nickerson The cars when we put our directional on behind us that are going straight through to Meadow Point Three. are annoyed that we're turning and zoom out around us and if there's uncoming cars they have to race around the car. so that they don't hit an hung oncoming car. This

2:38:33is constant. Constant. So it's really discouraging. that it's not really being seen what's going on there. I wish I could show you some video so you can actually see it and hear it, but it's it's really really bad for a gated community to be living like that. And yes, we are supposed to share. We're both Rencrest, but we were built at different times, we're different CDDs, we operate different. They don't pay for our gates, they don't pay for

2:39:03our road repairs, and there's no res there's no respect on their end as far as how what they do. to slow down and respect the neighbors and So it's not it's not happening on their end either. So please consider it.

2:39:19Okay, thank you. Thank you very much.

2:39:24Justin Wright, 300649, Burley Drive, Leslie Chapel. I'm the operation manager for the community, so some of the points, there are two stop signs on that road that do supposedly stop it, but if you sit there and watch, California Stop is uh far fetched to what they do on that road. Um also the road is gonna have to be repaired Twice as fast as other roads, they're all paved at the same time because the extra 1600 cars. Um that gate is budgeted three times

2:39:54the amount for that gate because of the extra 1600 cars that go through that. So the amount of Rencrest that has to pay over the other gated communities is sufficiently higher because of the extra traffic. Um all those are valid I mean they documented in our budget and our financials. Um The amount of kids that walk up and down that road. We owe it to them, like you said. The Mersey the school safety sign

2:40:24starts Two up one side of it. Our gate enters into it. People coming from Union Park, from Metal Point four, from Metal Point three, don't realize that they're pulling in there. They don't realize they have to go fifteen until they're already passed this goal and already almost hit. We have to have uh um crossing guards there and they actually had to change it this year to now there's the black cat there there is what they call it that can enforce traffic there because that's how bad it is. The gentleman that retired last year was there

2:40:55forever. He couldn't do it anymore because of the amount of traffic that's there. So I plead you guys that you do pass this. Thank you.

2:41:03Thank you very much.

2:41:06Is that everybody that wants to speak?

2:41:10Adrian. So you have

2:41:13Mr.

2:41:13Chairman

2:41:13Mariano online. Uh Mr. Riser, can you hear us? Yeah, hi. Can you guys hear me okay? Yes. Were you sworn in?

2:41:22I was not here at all on video to go. I'm sure this will work.

2:41:26Yeah, we can we can see you so we know you haven't been, so

2:41:30Also Mom. Go

2:41:31ahead. Uh

2:41:31if you run the permian, I have to do what I need to.

2:41:34Okay, raise your right hand.

2:41:36Do you swear if I'm the testimony

2:41:38you're about to give the true

2:41:39so help you got it? I did.

2:41:42Alright, thank you. Go ahead.

2:41:44Yeah, thank you. So I uh Matthew Riser lived at [address removed] next to the 9.3 side and just wanted to make a few comments here that you know first of all I I certainly don't want to come across as somebody who does not want to see a safer environment or to see our roads improve. Um That said, there's a couple of things that I feel like have not been mentioned. The speeding problem certainly exists. I'm not gonna sit

2:42:14here and pretend that people don't speed down both directions.

2:42:25Points of residents not coming through that reside as well. So that said, it's also, you know, there's not a complete lack of respect. It's not all bad factors that are causing this problem. And one of the things that kind of comes to mind for me: the speed limit is 30 miles an hour for a residential neighborhood. I don't know what this standard is in most other people. But to me that does seem fine and sort of lends itself to speeding in general. I

2:42:55also would like to revisit the speed bumps or speed promps. I believe there was an engineer there who had mentioned that it was not feasible really to place that due to the close nature of each house and without being able to read out without feeding access to certain drivers. I just I'm not sure if that's something that you could comment on in my context, but I don't fully understand why they couldn't be placed. between driveways, you know, in the ground.

2:43:33That's gonna be further right responsible.

2:43:37Yeah, we we we're we just need you to complete your statement and your questions and then we'll move on. So

2:43:44another item that kind of comes to mind here, and I've been through other residential neighborhoods that have

2:43:58So I don't know if that's something that would be an option as well, but to block traffic field directions for all the particular traffic plus EMS, which would be able to uh get through. You know, I it I I I would like to see more effort done between both parties in my point two and three to find a mutually acceptable solution. Uh right now, I you know, it's just hard to understand why. Right. Blocking traffic in both directions is the best option for all parties involved. Outside

2:44:29of that, I certainly want to see roads be safer. It's never good to hear about any injuries or deaths or anything of that nature related to speeding for a residential area. But at the same time, it would be significantly more challenging for a lot of parents to get to them from schools in the morning to drop their kids off, along with other just day-to-day activities that propose other challenges, you know, and and why is it That

2:44:59we couldn't allow residents of the Memo.3 and two side to still have access through both directions. I understand the outside traffic being a problem, and I'd love to see Mental Point 3 CDB do something to address that, whether that's UK or working closer with Mental Point 2, but the fact remains that I don't. I think we've tried that part to retain access in both directions. If there'd be other measures involved on top of that, providing access between both parties to reduce

2:45:29speeding of speed bumps or stop signs or some sort of traffic enforcement camera to let finds was an option.

2:45:40approachable route for a lot of people who would like to not see this uh traffic block open. So those are really my comments I wanted to make, but um that's all I've got.

2:45:50So are you a board member there at uh Meta Point Three?

2:45:54No sir, I'm I'm not a resident.

2:45:56You are a resident?

2:45:57Yeah, so uh [address removed] on the battle side.

2:46:01Okay. So I wonder why we have m we don't have more people at this meeting uh from MetaPoint three.

2:46:11You have any comment on that?

2:46:13I hey I tried to uh teach your high neighbors to join and be good citizens here, but maybe they were busy or didn't care to tune it. I'm really not sure. But you know it's this my only wheel here actually coming up on point here when people is on this house and um the traffic title has been established about the last 20 years. You know, anytime you need to head west really into Westley Chapel from Ron Quest Drive to get a realm on the outside for residents would be significantly more

2:46:45of an inconvenience. Not something that I could live with, that's how the board decides to go here. But um it it really feels like there and then again I haven't been involved in all of these discussions. going to be in since closing on this house. But it would be great to see from the public, in my opinion, more conversations happening between the Metalpoint 2 and 3 boards to find a full acceptable solution that doesn't impede traffic for residents.

2:47:16Okay, Matt, I appreciate your involvement. I I commend you for taking part and it taking an interest and uh we'll take into account what your comments.

2:47:25Mr. Chair, just for the record, there is an email in your packet from our resident of MetaPoint 3 as well.

2:47:31There's an email. Somebody gonna read that?

2:47:36It's in the packet. I'm just you mentioned that there was nobody else. I'm just letting you know that. Oh the okay. If there is an email in your packet from a resident of Metal Point. Okay, that's right. I did read that.

2:47:45Mr. Chair. Yeah. Uh and to let you know, we did receive an email earlier today from that same resident that you have the email from who said that um uh some of the other residents were unable to attend due to work and such. But we do have Tammy Snyder um from staff online who would like to to uh provide some comments.

2:48:07Okay. Yeah me?

2:48:11Good afternoon, everybody. Um I had basically decided um what I was going to say. Um I've been in contact with some of the residents from our country and they did intend to uh join to me, but unfortunately they all of them there were three different ones that all had uh other obligations.

2:48:31Okay. Well thank you, Tammy. Appreciate the information.

2:48:36Okay. Patrick, did you have something? Nothing? Okay. All right. Any other comments, questions, or anything from anybody up here?

2:48:47Yeah, I know that so that email was from Miss Marilyn Davis and she's met a point three and she was opposing the gate, just for the record.

2:49:00I mean th I guess the thing is, you know, first off, as Mr. Goldstein mentioned, I don't know if we can even approve or or or rather approve this appeal just because we may be precluded on a legal basis. But

2:49:14you can't today. I I guess the the issue is I think you need to decide which kind of

2:49:23give staff some clue how you want to handle the merits of it though because I mean in theory you could continue it for a period of time and they could file an alternative standard application and then you could act on the appeal. once you got a good once it was brought back to you as a continuance. Um but the only my only concern with that is unless you gave Patrick some clue where you were leaning, I he probably wouldn't know how to act on that alternative standard application.

2:49:53So I mean it you probably need to give Patrick some Clue where you're leaning on the merits, otherwise I'm not sure Patrick would know what to do with it. So

2:50:03since I since I started off say what I would the way I'm leaning, the the biggest heartburn I have with it is is cutting off access for Metal Point 3 to be able to use that road. Um you know it looks like based on the traffic study, 60% of the trips according to traffic study. They were outside the neighborhood. Um, it looks like this data that's up on the screen right was up on the screen right now. Can you go back to that?

2:50:33I guess he I guess you said your time was up.

2:50:35Yeah, I guess so. Um so that looks like that tracks with sixty percent, so it looks like you know the national average versus the actual data is approximately a sixty percent difference there term terms of total daily trips, uh you know, trips per home per day. So it looks like to me, you

2:50:53know,

2:50:54the biggest issue is the outside traffic utilizing the the the neighborhood. And so I think there needs to be more exploration of if we're going to install a gate trying to figure out a way to at least allow the people within the Metal Point two and three to be able to utilize both directions of Rinc to both ends. You know, I live in a gated neighborhood myself that could be a cut through. And you know, we uh there's there's

2:51:24a lot of traffic that's probably saved by having it being gated in that section that you know for outside traffic that would be cutting through the neighborhood, and I'm appreciative of that. But I'm also appreciative of the fact that everybody within that gated section can use. use the entire length of the road and not be cut off from one side of the neighborhood or the other. Um and so that's I guess that's probably my biggest issue with it is is is that, you know, cut especially an established road network that's been used for twenty five years. Um so Well

2:51:55m uh my thoughts on it are basically, Patrick, um you know typically I would come down the side of not blocking the road. I don't think that's a very rarely would that be a good idea in my mind. However Yeah, I s I can see that they've made some efforts to get this problem solved and the fact that they have a private road Just it put them in a position they can't get any help from the Sheriff's Department or or public services because it's a private ro road. So

2:52:25what's their option? What what are their options left to do? The only option they really have is to develop some kind of traffic calming or something. uh situation and I mean it's I think maybe the only logical way because it seems to me that since the s we've created a problem because we put schools there and it's created a lot more traffic. And And I sympathize with the fact that, you know, people racing up and down the road 'cause

2:52:55I'm on a road like that. And uh you know, I we don't have a gateboat we have our our roads aren't private. So we can call upon the sheriff to come in and and help us out.

2:53:10Mr Chair, the status of your roads are the same status as their road. These are both C D roads.

2:53:15I know but he they've already said the sheriff won't come because they're private roads. This is But then

2:53:21that that's an issue between them and the sh sheriff. I mean the the legal status of their roads is not any different than the legal status of your roads. They're both C D D roads. So I I I don't I understand that gentleman got up and called them private roads, but they're still C D roads. So they're not they're not any different legal status. So I d I don't know what happened in their inner their agreement with the sheriff and why the sheriff won't patrol their roads, but

2:53:50The sheriff is patrolling the C D roads in our neighborhood. I'm not sure what happened with our neighborhood. So Well but but but the The sheriff to my knowledge still patrols C D roads. I'm not sure what happened in that neighborhood.

2:54:05It seems to me the uh public road a good solution would be to come up with a a gate if you want to say a gate, but a gate that has mutual access where the cars that actually there are residents there can have a sticker on their car and that's what opens the gate. And they don't have to push a button or have a code. But it would make people from the outside drive around. And uh You mean mutual logist to Meta Point three. Yes, that's what I'm talking

2:54:36about. I'm not talking three. I'm talking about that they have mutual access b meta point two and three. And I think that would be uh the most reasonable solution to the problem because The problems are derived really from the fact that they have so many outside cars coming through there. And uh and I think a lot of it's because of the schools that are there. So Richard, you may want to comment on that. Yeah, I'm gonna come on yeah.

2:55:06Can can I just ask a question though for clarification on this this thing that's on the the two hundred and fifty three homes, that's in Metal Point two, is that correct?

2:55:15Yeah.

2:55:16Okay, so we're gonna say sixty percent of the trips, I mean that might be from Metal Point Three going through there. I don't know how how does this table up here tell me I'm missing the point of how this tells me that sixty percent of the people are outside of Metal Point two and Metal Point three.

2:55:31You caught you to call up whoever prepared this table. I don't know who that was. So Yeah, that was

2:55:36referring to the other the traffic study, the Rorw traffic study too. But so I don't but I don't know if that delineated between

2:55:41Would you like to come up and try to answer

2:55:42that?

2:55:48Lindsay Mosinski with Kalinski Van Wyck. So it is my understanding, Commissioner that the 253 homes are how many homes are located on Rencrest Drive. So that would be Meadow Point two and three. But there are, as stated before, over 400 homes that are in Meadow Point 3, and there's even more that are in Meadow Point 2 in this area. But this study right here with this chart was done. on for how much traffic is actually on the Rencrest Drive portion of the communities. And there's

2:56:17two hundred fifty. I just wanted to clarify because I know there's a statement that sixty percent of the trips of the people using Rencrest Drive are from outside of Meadow Point Two and Meadow Point Three.

2:56:26Right.

2:56:26Which I don't think is correct. You haven't provided anything with me that says that that's correct.

2:56:31Um so the traffic study is part of our materials for the whole um appeal submission package. Um and so it's my understanding that the Rourke's traffic engineering who did the study uh compared the levels for this type of street with this many homes and what the average rate of travel there is for vehicles and compared it to Rencrest Drive. And that's where that number is coming from. And so that's why it's 60% more. Because if you went into the average neighborhood where you

2:57:01have 253 homes on a street You're not gonna have as much traffic as we have. Again,

2:57:06your slide up there says that Meadow Point two consists of approximately two hundred fifty-three single family homes. Does it say Metal Point two and Metal Point three?

2:57:14Yeah, and I do understand it's a sum the summary, yes. It's my understanding that the study that's within our package is for 253 on Run Crest Drive.

2:57:22And Right. Right past.

2:57:25Strictly. And I apologize if it's slightly confusing on that slide.

2:57:32Okay.

2:57:34Grace, do you have anything?

2:57:36I mean I'm not opposed to the to the gate but I still don't think it it solves the issue of speeding necessarily through that area 'cause you know, without some other use of tables or or speed bumps or whatever, I mean I still don't understand why that Can't be done in areas between the you know, between yards and and the like in some of these houses. But I I don't know that that necessarily

2:58:02solves the problem of of this feeding through that through that area. I mean I do see a couple of stop signs in there at a couple of three ways or four ways, but um I'm not opposed to the gay but I I still don't know that it completely solves the the issue of the speeding in there. So

2:58:19if I could just offer a suggestion and if you're gonna continue the matter anyway to so they could submit an alternative standard application You could ask that our traffic ops department take a look at the roadway and see I mean 'cause you're only going by what their opinion is to what can be done on this road. I don't know that our Patrick is our traffic ops department taking a look at this roadway to see what traffic calling uh answer is not possible on this road.

2:58:49They were a part of well There is history I'm I'm sure I do not know. Um I think traffic operations has been around this project for a while. They obviously were part of the review for the gate itself, but in terms of looking at the full segment of Rencrest, I don't know for sure. I think they were involved in previous conversations, as was I think the fire marshal.

2:59:11Are there places where speed tables could be put in or stop sign? Like have they looked at it from the types of questions the Planning Commission is asking right now? Have they looked at it for that purpose?

2:59:20Um I'm not sure if they have or not, but I think that would be the next logical assuming we are looking at traffic calming, I'd be talking to traffic operations, I'd be talking to the fire departments, um our emergency services crews to see

2:59:33I guess my point is if you're gonna continue it you could direct staff to to further investigate that issue.

2:59:39Yeah, because it seems like speeding is maybe the biggest issue. And you know, that's Yeah. We're gonna look at the best way to handle it for both two and three. Well, can we pull up a can we

2:59:54pull up

2:59:54the aerial photograph of the neighborhood that shows both Rencrest and Beards Lake?

3:00:04Richard, draw that down at the end.

3:00:06Yeah, I was gonna say so as far as the school's concerned, this was part of the wire grass development. And it it's been I don't know the exact date, but I do know that. Mansfield wasn't even built when we purchased these schools. So I think it's been common knowledge that there was always going to be schools there. The other issue is that I've heard brought up was school safety. We have a traffic safety committee that's with the county and the school district. And they address issues as they come up and to our knowledge this has not been a safety issue. So just

3:00:36for the record we don't this intersection or the this just it addresses any kind of unsafe conditions that students would be involved in. And they m they meet with the county regularly, monthly. And this I uh checked with my colleague and this is this area is not something that's brought up as a safety issue.

3:00:56Richard, I do have one more question for you. Um Do you lost charge so if a gate have I know that emergency vehicles have the ability to basically get through almost any gate. I mean we the county requires that emergency vehicles can get through just about any gate. Do school bus drivers have that same ability or no?

3:01:16I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I could try to find out.

3:01:20Could you figure that out? Because I'm just trying to figure out if this gate was installed whether their school bus could get through or not.

3:01:25Yeah.

3:01:26Normally emergency vehicles access it through a a swelch button or it's like a

3:01:32on the siren. Right. I'm guessing that they don't but I th that the school bus would be blocked, but I'm j uh that uh I'm trying to I'm just trying to figure out whether

3:01:45I mean, because even if they I g I guess to

3:01:49I would think not either, but I'll check.

3:01:51I guess to the even if you do figure out a way that meta point three residents can do it, I guess the question is would the school bus be able to get through?

3:02:00Yeah.

3:02:03Uh do you m do I'm gonna just call this gentleman back up for a minute. He evidently has something important he wants to say. Thank you,

3:02:10sir. No, I have an answer to that question. Um uh we did reach out as part of the um the pre permit process we met with um emergency services, oh I'm sorry sir. Uh Robert Signoretti, uh [address removed]. Um we did meet with um emergency services to see if they were okay with with the um with the plan and as as well with the school board and the school safety officer as that gentleman um had uh referred to. Um what they told us

3:02:40is the only bus that technically would come down there is it was somebody with an ADA accommodation. But because it's within it's outside of two miles as the crow flies, they don't have a bus need to go down that route.

3:02:54it's if that was a showstopper we would be okay giving them some sort of clicker or something to open the gate as well.

3:03:01Okay.

3:03:02Thank you.

3:03:03You're welcome.

3:03:04But there could be kids that are outside of two modern areas that might go through.

3:03:12Can we zoom this map out a little bit so that it shows both Rencrest and Beards Land? Because there's a there's a principal difference between these two streets. And I actually feel bad in some ways for Patrick. Because I hear this It gets a push pull. When we come in here with MPUDs, and I've said this before and I'll say it again today and I'm going to point out the difference. Rencrest Drive has a whole bunch

3:03:42of cars, a whole bunch of houses whose driveways back up. They have to back out of their driveway and back into the street on Rencrest Drive. Now zoom to Beard Slip.

3:03:57Down.

3:04:02On Beardsley, there are no houses. With driveways. Too beer to sleep. It is a This is what we mean by continuation of the street pattern. I've said this before in here, especially pertaining to MPUDs. We don't use this section of the code, continuation of existing street pattern, to take somebody's residential street and turn it into a cut-through.

3:04:33We've destroyed countless streets in this county. with that section of the code. Fox Hollow Dry, Jasmine.

3:04:45Regency Park Boulevard.

3:04:47Yeah.

3:04:47I'm sorry 'cause these are on my side of the county. The west side of the county. We've destroyed people's lives and we've turned these neighborhoods in they're decaying because they're miserable places to live. Nobody wants to raise children. where they can't play in the yard because they risk getting run over by a car. This This section of the code needs to be clarified. And we need to apply the policy where we

3:05:17allow people the right to peacefully enjoy their property and we use roads like Beardsley to connect neighborhood to neighborhood, not somebody's residential street. And I don't think Patrick's done anything wrong. I think He hears it from me in here. He hears a different opinion from the Chairman of the County Commission.

3:05:41But I'll say this. The code says that you'll use this section of the code to connect streets for proper traffic circulation. I don't find this to be proper traffic circulation. If they have to have air ambulances, airlift people out of their residential street, then clearly there's a problem with the traffic circulation. That's not proper. So I'm not sure that this section of the code has been properly implemented.

3:06:12That being said, I don't blame Mr. Dutter, because he's getting differing he's getting pulled in different directions by different factions and I think this is something that should be workshopped and there should be an amendment to the land development code to clarify what we mean by continuation of the existing street pattern.

3:06:39This one just goes to all the arguments I've been making in all the previous MPUDs as to why we don't want to do that. So I just don't find that this is proper circulation. I'm not sure the gate, I'm with Chris, I'm not sure the gate is the best answer and maybe a speed table or a speed bump is a better answer. Um So I'd probably be in favor of a continuance to allow the applicant to One seek. the alternative

3:07:09standard and Patrick I hope you'll consider what I said if when if if and when they do that. And I also hope that I also hope That All the parties Meadow Point two, Meadow Point three, and our county review staff, all sit down in a room and figure out how they're gonna make this workable. 'Cause I don't wanna hear any more stories about people having to be airlifted out.

3:07:40That's just think about that. That could be your kid. Mm-hmm. That's a residential street. And we're gonna sacrifice lives. and peaceful enjoyment of property, for some what I'll call poorly conceived and poorly written section of the land development code. But I don't blame Patrick. He's charged to him enforce the land development code and he didn't write this section. And I know that I I've

3:08:10heard the board try to demand connections through residential streets, but I hope they'll reconsider that and look at streets like Beardsley. Look at streets like Starkey Boulevard. That connects one neighborhood to a neighborhood. Decubelist connects neighborhood to neighborhood, but nobody has a direct driveway to Decubelis. Nobody has a direct driveway to Starkey Boulevard. Nobody has a direct driveway to River Crossing Boulevard, but it connects neighborhoods to neighborhoods. That's the way that

3:08:41this section of the code needs to be. Yeah.

3:08:46With that I move to continue the case.

3:08:49How much how much time would We n if we were to continue it, what would be

3:08:56So Patrick Hall well, number one, they need to file an alt standard application. And then Patrick would need time to I guess react to it.

3:09:07Sure.

3:09:08And then you need time for traffic ops to kinda take a look.

3:09:14Well, data uncertain requires them to re notice it. I don't know how how

3:09:22difficult that is. I I I Patrick, in your opinion, how much time would that take?

3:09:29So I I'm not sure how I I would I'm assuming they might have their package together. I don't know if they're gonna be adding any additional information to their package, so I can't answer how long they're gonna be.

3:09:47two months to be safe on the staff side of things. I mean realistically and we know this is obviously a priority. We're gonna look at it as soon as we get it. Um but just building in some extra time to work with whoever who knows who else we need to work with, I think two months is safe.

3:10:03Would the applicant be okay with that?

3:10:15Lindsay Mosinski was Kalinsky Van Wyke.

3:10:19Yes, we would be okay with that.

3:10:22Yeah, I think I th I hope you s no see that it's obvious we're trying to get you some help. And uh I think everybody here is concerned about the safety issue, so um But let's get to something that we can really sneak our teeth into and that we know we're actually making an improvement there. We're not just gonna shoot from the head. Well hopefully if an alt standards.

3:10:43Well, I

3:10:43mean

3:10:44I guess the issue then they'll have to withdraw their approach. It does raise an interesting issue, which is in theory, if they filed an alt standard application, there's a theoretical world where Patrick approves it. So it in theory would moot the appeal.

3:11:02Correct.

3:11:06So I guess the the the continuance would be for sixty days and less

3:11:15Patrick approves the appeal and it's

3:11:19Approves the all standard and it's and it renders the appeal moot. So moved.

3:11:25Okay, second.

3:11:26Have a motion and a second. Are you moving the approval results section? Chair,

3:11:29just to be clear, uh you're

3:11:31gonna continue it to one

3:11:33to the one eight Planning Commission in Dade City.

3:11:36I'm sorry, what is that?

3:11:37Uh just to be clear, are you gonna continue it to the one eight Planning Commission in Dade City?

3:11:42Yeah, yeah. That's more convenient for these people. Yes. Yes.

3:11:46Well if if Patrick needs sixty days, do they need time to put together their application for the

3:11:54That's what that's why we asked the applicant to bring it to the

3:11:58next one would be uh two five indeed city.

3:12:01Patrick Tetter again, just just to and I don't think it will affect anything. Alt standards require noticing, thirty day noticing requirement. I I think that'll be baked into the sixty days, right? As soon as it's in their application they can do their noticing. So

3:12:14Well then ha well quick question. If there's another requirement then we can do doing something. I I said before I made said motion I I didn't really like the idea of a gate and I hope they'll figure out if they can evaluate whether speed tables or speed bumps or some other type of traffic comming devices. applicable in this situation. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the gate is the answer. But you're gonna need some time to get with your traffic

3:12:45ops people and whatnot to get them involved in the conversation, I assume.

3:12:50Yeah, I think the February date's most important.

3:12:52Yeah. you know, how long that might take. I just wanna make sure that there's a I'm I don't wanna force this back here in too short a time, but I don't want to drag it out either. I think Mr Gray is right, these people deserve some certainty about their street.

3:13:07Yeah, like I said, as soon as the application is submitted, we know it's a priority. Um I've I'll probably have a conversation with them after this meeting before the application is submitted to just give them the background. So I I don't expect a staff response to be longer than sixty days. Then also we have the getting it on the hearing uh agenda and getting it through CIA clerk process too. Um

3:13:41Assuming we say sixty, but then for some reason we need additional thirty, that doesn't require renoticing, right? It's just another continuance.

3:13:51I think if it's less than sixty days you don't need to get continued. I mean you know

3:13:55is the applicant opposed to just continuing to t to the February meeting? 'Cause we've got the holidays and everything else. I think there's just too much time.

3:14:03Lindsay Mosinski with Klinski Van Wyck. Um based on my interpretation with the timing, uh since the alternative standard requests would need to be noticed for thirty days, it might make sense if the county has the time to do that in sixty days at a hearing and then the continuance of this appeal would be maybe the thirty days after that.

3:14:26Just what I'm proposing, if that makes sense. Yeah,

3:14:27in which case if something's agreed upon then this appeal could be withdrawn before we get the new. Correct.

3:14:42That you just let them amend the existing appeal to include the alt standard denials they don't have to file a new appeal. So moved. Okay.

3:14:50point of order, I think you need to withdraw your original emotion

3:14:55Make it

3:14:56part of the original motion.

3:14:58I make that part of my original motion. There you go. Okay, and you second that. You got that at the clock. Yes, I still second it.

3:15:06Okay.

3:15:07I just I just want to reiterate, I mean, please try to work with traffic cops. I know Patrick you'll try to do everything you can. I mean, 'cause I I I I don't think that putting a gate in the middle is gonna solve all your problems. I mean I don't think the people that live on the east side of Meadow Point two aren't gonna speak into the gate going out to the west end. Um so Well I mean yeah, you keep the people with the cut through traffic out and maybe people going through Metal Point three, but

3:15:35Just to follow up, the school buses are not emergency vehicles. They don't have access to those devices. And David, I am not voting on this, correct? Or am I?

3:15:45Well actually you do because it evolves access to a school.

3:15:48Okay, thank you.

3:15:52Okay. I'm glad I stayed. So

3:15:54we have a motion. We have a second. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Okay. Motion carries. Okay. Here we have a solution for you.