PC9 Denton Place MPD rezoning 804 residential units
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It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Aug 4, 2022
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Aug 4, 2022
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 47m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 52% of 203 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
All right, uh I think we're on P C nine.
That was originally on consent.
But we'll come back to it.
Mm. PC nine is a zoning amendment in the name of Denton Place on PD Master Planning the Development. And I believe the staff plan or uh is online to provide that that presentation. All right. Thank you.
Tammy.
Is that Amy? Is that what you said? Oh Tammy, okay.
Yes. Hey Dammy.
Hi, you can
hear me go right in.
I can. Can you hear me okay?
Yeah. Everybody can hear her? Hello, everybody can hear her all right? All right.
Awesome. Um I can't see the I can't see the PowerPoint. Could you put that up for me, please?
All right. So we need to find mine.
Awesome.
Okay, good.
Thank you very much. All right. We have the Denton Place MPD, PDD 227582. Next slide, please.
Here's our location map. The roadway along the northern boundary is Houston Avenue. Uh the southern boundary is Denton Avenue and over there on the west is US 19, just kind of off the picture. Next slide please.
The zoning district surrounding Next slide, please.
And here we have the future land use. The future land use of the parcel is res three and they are not proposing any um um higher density than rest. Next slide, please.
Proposed is a rezoning request from an AC Agricultural Zoning District to an MPUD Master Plan Unit Development District to allow the development of a maximum of 804 residential dwelling units, detached, attached, andor multifamily courtyard homes, which are built to rent, and associated infrastructure on approximately 306.7 acres. Next slide, please.
The applicant is also requesting the following variations from the LDC, LDC 901.6.D.10, Street Design and Dedication Cul-de-Sax. The request is to eliminate the cul-de-sac requirement when street studs are less than 150 feet. All dead-end streets in excess of 150 feet will have a full-de-sac in accordance with the CASCO LDC. Um, unless it is to be a futures to a another property.
Sorry about that. I'm having technical difficulties I muted. All right, um, LBC section 901.6.d point eleven, street design and dedication requirements, design and construction, continuation of existing street pattern, access to adjoining properties. This section requires that streets within the proposed development to be connected to adjacent streets to provide for proper traffic circulation. And Ova Street is a private street, so this project will not have access to but unless approved by the Responsible Homeowners
Association. And even then it is proposed to be an emergency only access. Next slide please.
And LDC section 901.4, Substandard Roadway Analysis. The County Access and Transportation staff had requested a potential stabilized connection to Eden Road, which is a substandard roadway with large rural residential lots. The applicant agreed to set this potential connection, although the access is not necessary for the project given the number and locations of other proposed accesses, but they were going to go ahead and supply. This is as long as the county
waived the substandard road requirements for them. Next slide, please.
And here's our master plan. Um you can see that they do have an internal collector, a subdivision collector that's going to be going from north to south. Next slide, please. Yeah. The proposed development is in the North Market area. It's on the north side of Anabutting Denton Avenue and on the south side of Anabutting Houston Avenue, approximately 2,600 feet east of Little Road. And currently the parcel reflects its original zoning district of AC
and has been used for agricultural pursuits. No increase in density from the existing RISC 3 future land use. The property but the conceptually planned Denton Avenue trail to connect US nineteen to the Sunclist Parkway. And the 46.84 plus or minus acre category one wetland in the northwest to the middle of the site will remain as a conservation area and will not have residential areas encroaching into the conservation area or the required tougher area.
Next slide, please.
And LDC, section 402.2.c.8, that specifies that variations from the code may be reviewed and approved by the PC and BCC during the public hearing held for the MPUD zoning amendment, and they shall be allowed where the BCC specifically finds that the proposed variations do meet or exceed the intent of the code. And staff has reviewed the requested variations and find that they do meet the intent. the proposed request is consistent Whoop. That's a leftover from another one.
Doesn't have a CFA on this one. Um, but it is consistent with the PASCO LDC Chapter 400, Subsection 402.2 zoning amendment. and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Next slide please. And with that, PDD recommends approval with conditions to the BCC.
And Tammy, this is this the one where you sent the Planning Commission some revised conditions?
Yes. So we just need to make sure that If you approve this item that you're approving it with the revised conditions that were emailed to you on The third.
I don't know the search amount. There have been several ex parte communications. Um, as far as I can tell, it's with every single planning commission member. And those have uh been pre have um been st sent to the clerk's office.
All right, thank you. Mr.
Hobby? Mr. Chairman Mari Hobby, Hobby and Hobby PA, 109 North Brest Street, Tampa, Florida. Ben Sworn. Here on behalf of the applicant, uh subject property is owned by the Harvey family, owned it for many years, and the contract purchaser. is a national home builder, D. R. Horton. uh the site. If we could maybe bring the master plan back up, that would be helpful. The site's located in the Hudson area and it's somewhat unique in that it has access to
col to two different collector roads. On the north side we have Houston Avenue. And on the south we have Denton Avenue. And the proposal here is to stick within the existing future land use classification, and we will build uh an uh a collector road on the site that will connect to each of the uh adjacent collector roads that are running east west through this area. Uh the site is uh
interesting in the the fact that it's a mishmash of different uses Um you all are familiar with Hudson no doubt and know that there's a legacy of some heavy and lighter industrial projects that have been located adjacent to residential and many times and the county has uh large facilities in the area as well. In this case, the majority of our boundary on the east side is the county spray field and their reclaimed and wastewater
system that runs on several hundred acres that are adjacent to the east. On the south side there's a large RV resort called Three Lakes that has about 300 some odd RV spaces. To our north, we have the Lake Marinette um community, which is really a it's a manufactured housing community. I think we may have a few of our neighbors here to speak about that. Um I did want to update you all,
you have revised conditions that you were provided last night from staff. In the last week or so, we've spoken with our neighbors a good bit. and in particular the neighbors to the north in the Lake Marinette community asked for some special fencing. and landscaping and we're providing that and added a condition that's part of number eight that adds that for the sections where we will be adjacent to their residential community with any of our houses. Similarly
in the south east corner, that's a legacy older, unplatted community that has dirt roads, but one of our neighbors called and asked for some commitment to fencing and landscaping there and we agreed to do that for them as well. and then as you heard from staff with regard to Lake Marinette Uh we didn't realize until fairly recently, and I don't think staff realized that their roads were private. So we agreed to show that only as an emergency
access, and we're recognizing that we cannot access their roads without their consent because they've been maintaining those on-site roads for many years. Other than that, in the big picture, you know, the Hudson community. It's been in need of reinvestment and investment for many years. Many of us who've been here a long time have prayed and prayed that we could get large companies to make big investments in the area. And this is a big commitment from a big uh company that I believe will ultimately rise uh
the value of all the property in the area and will represent a large investment there. So I'm happy to answer any questions you may have and and I really would prefer just to hold the balance of my time and listen to where our neighbors' concerns are and then I can address those unless you all have questions now.
Yeah. So Clark, you mentioned about fencing and landscaping. I'm looking at the condition that Tammy sent to the Planning Commission. It talks about a six foot tall, opaque fence. I'm not seeing anything about landscaping. So if that was your intent It doesn't appear to be. I'm
I'm gonna have Mr. Surak, Brian Surak and he can answer that with greater specificity.
Good afternoon, Brian Surak. I'm uh here with ClearView Land Design on behalf of the developer. Uh along the so so there is a required buffer by the by code um along um the eastern boundary. It's a type A buffer which requires some shrubs and trees. So um the only component that isn't required in the code would be the opaque fence. So we would be adding
the landscaping you're providing is basically code related required landscaping.
And then we add the fence.
Okay. All right. I I was confused because you said additional landscaping so I would
my bad. I I didn't realize I Honestly I thought that we were our landscaping might have varied from the coat a little bit too. I knew we were doing some, but the fence was the main thing our neighbors wanted. Uh
huh. Thank you.
They specifically asked for this type of fencing. So that's how we landed there. Otherwise I'll answer any questions they may have. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
All right, so is anybody here to speak on this subject?
Anybody here to speak on the left? Okay.
Alman just like the nun.
Um Mr. Chairman, uh I disagree with the gentleman that just spoke. Excuse me, we need your name and address. We need your full name and address. Uh Pastor Thomas Almond and I live [address removed]. Uh Mr. Chairman, I do uh disagree with the last gentleman. Uh we live in a rural area and we have not uh prayed nor have we asked for industrial or um this type of development.
Um With that being said, um Uh I first want to find out here um Uh we are having a hearing here on the east side of the county for a west side issue, which I don't understand, and some of my neighbors are here that traveled some distance. I'm not quite sure if the jurisdiction was changed because of uh maybe people can't get over here to Dade City. With that being said, I have a
few questions and one more comment. According to the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council, we are five years ahead of ourselves in housing. Why are we even considering more housing industrial, uh more housing and not more industrial? Um with that being uh with that being said, um I do have a few a few questions. Um And that's
about four questions deep. Um Um I understand there's another development that's not according to this hearing that's gonna be 1600 homes adjacent to Denton going to Kitten Trail. and um they're all rule roads, two lane substandard roads. Um what are we gonna do about the traffic pattern? We're we have two lane roads here. You know, you if you have s if you have eight hundred homes, everybody has two cars, you're looking at uh sixteen hundred more cars. If you look at the other uh
community, it's gonna be sixteen hundred homes. Uh thirty two hundred more cars. What are we doing about that? Me and my wife have been here for twenty-two years and um uh we worry about the wildlife. We're already seeing foxes and coyotes coming on our five acres. Um and um the other one is um Uh Uh how do you pl uh how do you plan on taking care of the water? We've we've heard Spring Hill sucking the water out of the ground. um
created sinkholes. And also um They'll probably be connecting to um county water. We have well and septic. How do we handle that? And then we look at the other things, livestock, we have livestock, uh, we have all kinds of um uh animals, roosters, is that gonna bother the the new community? Um and we have electrical and public safety. What are you uh what do we do on public safety?
Fire. Please. Hurricane evacuation. So there's a lot of concerns here. So I do object to uh to this and I think some of my some of my neighbors um if they raise their hands object also to um to this man saying, you know, we've been praying for this. We have not. Um it's a big concern for us because we're in the rural area. All right, Mr.
Chairman Mariano.
Thank you. Anyone else like to speak? Just come forward and give us your name and address, please.
Don't hang yourself on that thing.
Uh Richard Somerville, [address removed]. Mm-hmm. I like to look at the really big picture. Mr. Hobby talked about the Big picture, but I look at like worldwide issues. I'm interested in that. In 2014, Naomi Klein's book, This Changes Everything, Capitalism vs. the Climate, was published. In Chapter five she describes what some quote, political scientists call
extractivism, unquote. She defined extractivism as quote, a non reciprocal, dominance based relationship with the earth, one purely of taking. It is the opposite of stewardship. which involves taking but also taking care that regeneration and future life continue. That's on page one hundred sixty nine. At first I thought of extractivism as only removing resources from inside the earth. as she talks about in the book. But then
I realize that extractivism can also describe what is happening in many places here in Pascocani, that is, the extraction from existence, more or less permanently, a vast swaths of forest or agricultural land, with little concern for the life that is being destroyed. A case in point is dent dent in place In the map from the agenda. All the uplands within this project are shown for housing. I don't see any stewardship here. at least for upland
species. Naomi Klein also goes briefly into the history of extractivism. She says the patron saint of extractivism should probably be Francis Bacon. He he is best known for perfecting the scientific method. She says that he, more than anyone else, convinced the British elites to quote, abandon once and for all pagan notions of the earth as a life giving mother figure to whom we owe respect and reverence. That's page one
seventy. This was in the early sixteen hundreds. From then on, science and technology advanced so So so did our and so did our ability to pollute and reshape the earth and use and abuse not only nature but also native peoples in other places. Clearly we should learn from science and not ignore inconvenient science, but something else is missing in our decision d decision making. That something else is philosophy. I have an ending quote here. Uh
this is um quote, There will be no end to the troubles of states or humanity or of humanity itself till philosophers become kings in the in this world. or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands. That's from Plato. From uh Brainyquote.com Please deny the zoning change. Please get advice from philosophers.
Thank you. Thank you.
Anyone else?
Ross.
All right, I don't see anyone. Oh.
Yep, there's one more.
So we can have your name and address, sir.
Well, Uh I couldn't hear very well. But I live on the I live [address removed]. And um I'm just wondering, are they going to widen the road there or no?
Can I can I get you to give us your name and address, please? Name and address. Name and address.
Oh, name and address. Uh Jeffrey Miller, [address removed]. Thank you. Oh, you're welcome, sir. Anyhow, I live right there [address removed], so I'm wondering Are they going to widen the road or not road or what what are they going to do there?
Here in Indian Oak Sales?
Huh?
You're an Indian Oaks.
I can hear him.
He said you're in Indian Oaks. That's where you live?
Yeah, Indian Oak, yes. At the corner of
Denton, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So
So uh can anybody just give me any information on widening the road or you want to speak to that Mr. Hobby? When you come up. Okay. He'll answer that question for you.
So are they going to widen it widen it or no?
When he comes back up he's gonna answer that for
you.
Okay. It's not a yes or no. It's not a
yes or no answer because they're making some improvements to the road. It's it's not a black and white answer. So let Mr. Hobby address it.
Okay.
Okay.
So I'm having a hard time hearing, so I'm saying audit I think.
We can speak up.
Okay.
All right. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll try to get you an answer.
All right, Mr. Hobby, you're gonna have to speak up so you can hear you.
I'll speak up now so I and I appreciate it where he's coming from because I think I'm headed to that same place. Again, it's Clark Hobby for the record. To answer uh I think it was Mr. Miller's question. The road itself is not going to be widened beyond two lanes, but we are constructing turn lanes, both a westbound, left turn lane into the site. And uh I'm sorry, an eastbound left turn into the site and a westbound right turn lane and
the access point aligns with Smooth Water Drive, which is the name of the road on the south that comes out of the large R V park. So it's aligned there. So I think that answers that question. Uh as to the first speaker, uh just as you all know, Mm-hmm. Uh This is not one of in one of the county's enumerated rural areas and there is one in Hudson. This is not in one of them. Uh the future land use in on our site is Res III. The
majority of the area to the north and to the west of us is REST six. Those are deemed to be suburban or teetering on urban level densities, and we're actually adjacent to public, semi-public for the counties. Uh what that's usually used for a more intense public facility as we have next door. So again, this is not and nor has it been too much. Knowledge ever since the comp plan was adopted, this specific area was not planned to be rural. It
has never been. Uh the two collector roads which are adjacent to the site are not substandard and were found to be standard as part of the timing and phasing analysis. As I mentioned, we are building east and westbound turn lanes on both of the sites, even though hypothetically on Houston there's the road pretty much stops close to our uh eastern boundary, but we're gonna go ahead and put the the westbound
left turn lane in in case the road is ever constructed and goes on and makes another connection. You all know that we have to follow the rules on wildlife. There's state, federal, and local rules about wildlife that we have to follow. Any impacts are go through a significant process at all three of those levels, and we will have to follow those. We're not proposing to use wells, we'll be linking into the county's water system, so we won't have any effect scientifically on the well systems that. that our neighbors
may have. As you know, our potable system is not just based in Pasco County, but it's part of the larger distribution network for Tampa Bay Water. As to livestock, I've seen our livestock coexist in areas that we have significant significant development. I think about all the stuff on fifty four and we still have cows out on the Mitchell's uh property right now and we have literally tens of thousands of units surrounding 'em, and they get along just fine. So I don't view that as being a major thing
and and and the last thing I'd say with regard to the second speaker I I respect his he's seems like a very, very intelligent man, but I have to follow the comp plan and the land development code when we take on these rezoning. Play Doh doesn't really govern how I approach these matters. So I appreciate it. Happy to answer any other questions you may have. All
right. I have a concern and this goes to Pastor Almond's mention there's another development just to the east of here that will connect between Denton and Kitt.
Right.
And I'm looking at your traffic study and I see that the directional distribution along Denton was assumed to be twenty percent of traffic. And there's no consideration in this study that there will be a north-south road that will connect Denton to Kitten. And I know that in the other case that we're going to hear in a couple few weeks, that there's a significant contingent of neighbors that are concerned about the effects of that development on Kitten.
Right.
That particular development is going to have Mm.
It's a substantial amount of retail and industrial flex space that's going to go on that development. And right now, if you live up here, the nearest grocery store to you is either the Walmart down at fifty two and nineteen or there's a public's uh Little in Hudson, it's quite a distance away.
Right.
Well eighty thousand square feet of retail. It's about forty thousand square foot for a grocery store and I think that's probably likely 'cause it's a long way for these residents. So I think this project may have some impacts to the east that haven't been considered. I also looked at the traffic study for that particular development and I see that it has not considered your development. Now I'm not saying that you've done anything wrong. I looked at the date when this traffic study was submitted and
you this was back in November or January And the comprehensive plan amendment that was passed for the other project happened was heard by this body in February. Yeah, it hadn't even occurred yet by the Board of Commissioners in April, so I'm not sure. So maybe the question's better asked to the staff. How do we make sure that When two developments of this size and scale are located that close to each other, That There's some accounting for that in
the traffic analysis that's done for these projects, what I want to make sure is, and I'm and I'm not opposed to this development at all, and I think it's great you haven't asked for an increase of density. Right. But my concern lies in that there's an intersection that's going to be created to the east of you, not far from here. that could potentially have traffic problems and I think that needs to be evaluated.
Well I think that's uh I I have Ali Atefi here and you all know Ali was with the county for many years and he can answer some specifics, but generally my understanding in the last ten years or so and maybe w since we went away from concurrency, generally what we do is we go out and we take traffic counts and then we apply a generalized growth factor to the roadway network that we're studying.
We tip that's right. We typically would not, under the post-concurrency era, we would not go back and then refactor in additional background traffic from other projects that may be coming down the line. Prior to the elimination of concurrency, we did that a lot, and David knows that. That was a a big source of consternation both for staff and for us. I I can I will have Ali talk about this specific project, but what I did understand from speaking with uh Steve Henry and Ali's office is that
the two collector roads that we're impacting have a significant amount of excess capacity and I suspect that even with this project and the other project that were to be approved, they will still be uh able to meet. the level of service.
And that that may be think what I'm asking, and I don't know what the mechanism to do this is, but I think that needs to be looked at to make sure that isn't going to be a problem. Maybe it's something that just maybe it's signalization that may be required to the east of you. But I think there's going to be a s I think there's going to be more than twenty percent of the project traffic out to Denton that goes there, you're gonna now create a shortcut through the other property and that shortcut's not
considered in this traffic study and likewise I know in their traffic study they haven't considered all the people that will move into this development that may shortcut through that road too. You know, I'm guilty of myself of shortcuts. The other day I got over to a bank off Little Road and I realized that I was going to have to sit through twenty red lights on Little Road to get to my home in Hudson. So, you know, I cut through River Crossing, up Starkey Boulevard, out Moon Lake Road and I know that's what people are gonna do. They're gonna cut through a they're gonna cut through a project
like this, so
Well again
I can I can have a lease.
Uh yeah, I I I and I I I d I don't disagree except for the fact that I do have to follow how the code's administered on a day to day basis, and that's not anything that other projects are doing.
I don't think you've done anything wrong.
It would be I think what you're Mr. Moody, is your I think your point might be if we're able to it'd be nice if we could go back and do a little bit of supplemental analysis and make sure that we're not creating an issue if the other project were to be approved.
Likewise to the other applicant.
Right. I mean and and again just and I think most of the planning commissioners are aware. In the post concurrency era, I I'm I've not been even tracking this other project because it's off site for me and I would not be paying for site access improvements at their intersections. And so it's you know
I don't know what the answer to this is. I think it's probably a better question for staff, and I realize you may not be tracking them, but clearly the neighbors are on the right-of-way.
Us and Khalil would like to speak to the matter.
Okay.
Yes, uh good afternoon. This is Asin um Mr. Moody, point well taken. Uh, you're absolutely right. But when we do these types of studies, we're looking at the The mainline capacities of roadways. And and they're not a small project, so they don't get billed out in a year or two. They have Um A built out yeah, that's many years now. So when when they look at their build out, they consider their build out traffic.
And in that they account for a growth in the background that happens which We've seen in the past that sort of account for
The growth of that will happen in the background. So they they when they do their analysis they they're looking at existing, they're looking at future background and then they look at future background with their project traffic. And then they evaluate the roadway network. And identify where if any there are any failures on those mainline segments. So when you do the timing and phasing analysis which these MTUDs are doing, they're focused more is on the mainline
uh through capacities of these conductor arterial always. They're not specifically looking for A left turn, right turn failure that is occurring. We can't get into the intersection analyses where they can show failures at the intersections, which might be off site. Uh we do look at at what point in time of their development stage does that failure occur that translates back to the development size that they're at. So if
there are a thousand units at 500 or 600, we'll start seeing a failure at a certain point in time. and they identify what that failure may be. So we can then program for those improvements, whether we use tax dollars or mobility fees, so on and so forth. So But specifically answer your question whether we account for a roadway that these guys are showing in their analysis we may not have looked at and we can always go back and look at it again. And some change needs
to be made, we can address it.
S and the right-of-way. Is there additional analyses that happen with each site plan? What I'm getting what the so each time they do a site plan they might be asked, Okay, now there is a new intersection to the east and that needs to be studied before we can approve. I see Ali shaking your head. No.
So and you cycling An access management type of a study which specifically looks at that project's access cuts locations where their traffic is coming in and out. We at times do have them include any adjacent or immediate intersections that they have an immediate and direct impact on it. So access management studies can get into that if we want to, but mostly it is looking at the project's own driveway access locations and evaluating
what improvements are needed.
Okay.
Can I ask your qu ask Essen a question that may get to your issue? Essen, when you're looking at the background traffic growth rates Are you considering the amount of growth that's occurring in the area or are you using a standard percentage throughout the whole county.
We're generally using a standard percentage which is minimum of two percent. Sometimes we have used a higher percentage. Based on uh the growth that we have seen in the AADT volumes, annual average daily traffic that occurs on these roadways. But at times we do get into the model volumes where Ali can um maybe express whether they use the model in this case or not. I did not directly review this analysis, but I can definitely go back and look at it. But
we are generally looking at a two percent minimum growth rate around the county. And we've seen over the years that two percent may seem to be a small number, but it is a very significant number when you look at annual annual daily traffic on these roadways to be twenty, thirty, forty thousand vehicles per day. Two percent is a large amount when you take it out ten, fifteen, twenty years.
Growth rate is is reasonable.
We have uh experienced in the past that it has been a reasonable number to use But uh Yeah, use other numbers. As well.
Essen you said that two percent significant at uh Roads that have forty thousand cars a day. I don't know. Does this does Denton Avenue or Houston Avenue does Denton Avenue have That kind of volume.
I I don't have the traffic study in front of you, Mr. Moody. Uh I don't know, my colleague Stacy, she is here also. She may have the report or if Ali has it handy, he can uh
This is Ali Atefi, I'm uh with Ling Sun Associates. I've been Swarm uh 5023 West Laurel Drive, Tampa, Florida, three three. Six or seven. Just a just a quick background on on the growth rates. Um We ha when we s I was with the county for many years. Um so when we switched from concurrency to the mobility fee
and and timing and phasing There was a um Um big discussion about what do we do about growth in the surrounding area when you do these type of studies. The county through the um Development review committee, which was um the administrator and the all the assistants, they all decided that they don't want to spend uh time to
track um all the trips from surrounding projects and to do this type of analysis. The decision was to use a standard growth rate. Now I do agree with you that that growth rate can be diff differ it can differ From road to road. Um a road like US 19, a growth rate of 2% is huge, but on Denton, 2% may not be huge. I don't know. So it's
it's a guessing game. Um it just use your logic uh to determine these growth rates. I can tell you that based on the numbers I'm seeing Even if you use a growth rate of ten percent, let's say, on Denton, You're still not gonna be over the capacity. Because a two-lane capacity you're looking at about Um sixteen, seventeen thousand cars a day. So even if you use a uh growth
rate of that magnitude, you're still not gonna uh um exceed the capacity of that two-lane road. Um The ten lanes, we already do in the ten lanes, so it doesn't matter. Um so overall I would say uh I mean we can revise the analysis, spend the time to do it, but I can tell you um that it's not gonna change the the result of what we found out
here.
Are you saying
capacity for the main line roadway. My particular issue goes to an intersection that's going to exist and hasn't been evaluator.
Yeah, at at the end of the day, um when you look at that intersection as well, the it's the main line that ha it play a role into how much green time it gets and determines the capacity of that road. Well
you're insinuating it may need a signal, that's what I'm getting at.
I I was just gonna say I and Mr. Moody, this was one of the big changes when we went to timing and phasing from concurrency. We don't analyze payprop shares for or contribute to off site intersection improvements anymore. None of our projects, these huge developments.
I'm not suggesting that it was your obligation to I'm kind of asking the staff. I understand when concurrency went away and you you didn't have that obligation, you don't have that obligation today. And like I said, I said uh from the outset, I don't think you've done anything wrong. I think it's a problem that's inherent in the system. And I'm hoping that the staff can figure this out so that We could try to stave off problems as we go forward.
And and and if that's your point, it's it's well taken. The only thing I would say is the the other site, whatever those site access improvements are, and I was chatting with Barbara on the side, and she's gonna do her own work, but they're obviously well aware of whatever site access improvements or signalization requirements or whatever they are from their own access. management study. And, you know, though they what we determined when we went away from concurrency was that the party that's adjacent to the intersection that's
at issue is in the best condition with the county to determine what those improvements are. So that's that's why we operate the way we do now. We don't even generally We're not we're looking at capacity improvements and we don't look at intersection improvements. If the staff wants to consider that stuff, they're welcome to do so. But the party that they'd be extracting those improvements from on a general basis would be the developers that are adjacent to it. If I'm saying that wrong, David can correct me, but I think that's the way we do things.
I think that's generally accurate.
Okay.
Thank you. I have a question. Yeah. Yes, sir.
And Mr. Hobby. It reads if you hear that you're gonna build approximately eight hundred and four residential dwellings. Right. Associate infrastructure. Could you elaborate on the infrastructure with uh grocery stores, gas stations, liquor barn, anything along that line? Nothing
along that line. In in this case it's a residential liquor barn. I know it's a residential only community. I think staff might might have been referring to or our our narrative might have been referring to our roadway infrastructure and utility infrastructure and retention ponds and things like that. Residential only community. No bars, no liquor stores, no heavy industrial.
What I'm learning here, we might be able to use the one on Barbara's adjacent property.
Okay, we set you up for that one,
didn't we?
Okay, thank you. I just
hope so, because it's a long way from there
to a grocery store. It's actually quicker to go to Spring Hill. Mr Pierre, I have a question there. Um I don't think anybody addressed I don't know if you need to address it or staff needs to address it, why we're hearing this on the east side of the county as opposed to the west side of the county.
You know, I to be honest with you, I can't remember why was this one that was running late. Yeah, there was a I think there was a might have been an advertising date that staff missed internally and it got pushed a month. Originally it was gonna be on the other side. That's that's what happened.
Clark, one one question very quickly. So for the single family detached lots, are you are you proposing forty footers for
We have a combination of forties and fifties and we're meeting the new county standards on that.
Okay. So are you your forty footers gonna be more than fifty percent for the other?
Okay.
So you're not proposing any rear loaded lots or anything?
No. And again we'll meet all the landscaping and architectural requirements that the board's not requiring.
How about from the perspective of the multifamily, is that gonna go down in uh was it phase
Well I d I don't want to be misleading. We we call it multifamily and that's really because it's gonna be one owner, maybe rental units when we if we have 'em. It's it's the current plan and not it's not binding, but the current plan would show that those units would be in that uh portion B that's near the southeast corner near the uh The unplatted subdivision over there. And I think that's why our neighbor wanted the fencing over there.
Okay. Yeah, I was just curious why that wouldn't be up further towards the north side of the project kind of from a density perspective. It looks like those lots over there, acre plus.
They are but and um I'll try to be kind. I mean that that subdivision is in major need of repair.
Thank you, sir.
Thanks.
Okay.
Right.
Any comments?
I just want to clarify um the location of the hearing. Um it's been policy that when there is no opposition to an item that it can be heard on either side of the county and and staff had not heard from anybody in the neighborhood until just recently. So it had been scheduled. a while ago um and we didn't have any opposition at that time.
Okay. Patty, is there anybody on the web? No. Alright. So if there are no more questions.
I'll make a motion that we approve uh P ten. Okay. I
think this is P nine. P nine. P nine? Yeah. That's what you meant, Ranky.
Yeah, sir.
Do I have a second?
I'll second. That's with the revised conditions, right?
Yes.
Right, Pete? Yes sir. Okay. All right. So uh we have a motion and have a second and further discussion on the motion. If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Okay, motion carries.
Okay. Done it? Mm-hmm. Okay, okay.