PC3 PDD-23-7697 Sanchez AR rezoning for five lots
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Sep 7, 2023
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Sep 7, 2023
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What was said
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So we're on to P C three.
So PC three, as my team puts up that PowerPoint, it's PDD twenty-three seven six nine seven. It's a zoning amendment. Um group Ruben A and Maria J. Sanchez. It's for a change in zoning from an AR agricultural residential district with conditions. So the prior zoning action on this property had a deed restriction that limited um the property to a total of two dwelling units. The property owner would like to rezone the property in order to have a potential
total of five dwelling units on the property.
So um we're showing you the existing future land use which is res1, one dwelling unit per acre. The existing zoning is AR surrounded to the west and to the east and to the south and to the north by AC, which is what it previously was.
There's a single family home on the property and a mobile manufactured home on 5.04 acres. Access to the property is through Pine Terrace, which is privately maintained 60-foot-wide ingress and egress easement, which is a dirt roadway. And we're asking you that you find it, you recommend approval of recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners. The applicant is here if you have any questions on the matter. I did look through the um information from the prior zoning action and it was just what the
property owner wanted at that time was to have a total of two dwelling units on the property. That's why that condition was placed on it. It was not based on um anyone showing up to the public hearing and and having an objection. It was just what the the the person offered. Um they were represented by Mr. Larkin and that was the condition of approval that was placed On the zoning action.
The staff report says.
Mm-hmm.
for the first zoning action. Yes. That that action was taken to bring the site into conformance because there was one mobile home and an unpermitted mobile home. Correct. One of the conditions was And then it said that the property would be subdivided.
Correct.
Because in AR zoning we only allow individual mobile homes on individual lots.
Correct.
And what I'm not seeing is There's no subdivision of this property.
I believe that there's a history behind it and perhaps the applicant can explain it better than I can. because we did look um through building permits and we looked at how there were removals of a of a mobile home and then all of a sudden it reappeared. So I don't know we couldn't tell from the history as to how it occurred. Um there have been permitted mobile homes and permitted um a manufactured home on the property. Requ requirements for removal, um replacements,
but I don't know how the the current mobile home that's there is still there.
So
if it's actually being lived in, I
think the question that I have for staff is are there currently two dwelling units on the property, whether they be permitted or unpermitted.
There are currently two dwelling units on the property.
That is accurate. Okay. Yes.
The applicant may be able to explain um at some point in time I had heard that the mobile home was not being used for residential purposes, which I know that that's another issue all within itself, but I will allow the applicant to explain that the history on there.
All right, great. Thank you, Denis.
Thank you.
The applicant present.
Uh okay, would you like to come up and make your presentation?
We can only hear one at a time, so if you wanna Give your name and address please and and uh then tell us what you want to tell us. We'll take the next one.
My dad is Rubens Sanchez and uh
Yeah, there says three eight four zero two times and late cities.
Okay, I think I heard that. Go ahead.
Nim, are you are you helping him?
Are you a translator?
Yes, I've been able to do that. Ms. Janky
Ms.
Janky is his representatives and we have an agent of record.
Yeah, I'm an agent of record.
Okay. Well why Jackie why don't you give us your name and address then and what your position is.
You know, I'm not hearing the people very well. Um
You're the agent of record. Just to say that
Caroline
Address?
[address removed].
And you're the agent of record?
Yes.
Yes. And and were you all sworn? Yes. We sworn you sworn. I watched
them
too. Okay. Well
you're really studying the swearing in. Not that many today.
Okay. So go right ahead now.
What what was the question? They I don't think they could
Well, we just wanna understand what it is you're gonna want to do there and Yeah the method and so forth.
You wanna sub five one acre lots and build them?
Yeah. What but I'm gonna do you know is try to do the toll drilling on the property and that's why I went, you know, to resonate. Because when I do the first drilling, you know, I suppose to be you know, leave it one acre for drilling. But of course, you know I don't need anything but I'm trying to do right. Mr. Bad Lutzkin was the one to my house and he's doing everything for me. So I don't know any of these things that we're doing right now. And that's why I let him go ahead and
do the house. Because I gotta went to the resonance because there was already a mobile one on a property. And and down that time they say we only allow the two ventrics for for partial. There was five actors partials when I put the first one in there. And that's why I gotta do the Sony. But of course I don't know that you gotta go through all this, the document, everything. Because like I said, I don't did it myself. Mr. Bach did everything for me. And you
know, and everything went through. But I don't know in the future, you know, I'm gonna face into problems like this. You know, so what I'm trying to do right now is do my lifetime home for me and my wife and put in one of my kids living in the house I live in right now. And I mean maybe that's all I do because there's already two drillets on the property. But I wanna put it like one more thrill and you know, probably it's all I'm gonna do, you know, in my lifetime. Then whenever I'm best
Then it's up to my kids, you know, to do whatever. But I want to make it sure that's down the right way so that way in the future they don't got to face any problems like this.
Did you say you only have one one child that you want to bring on the property or two?
He's got three children.
Three.
Three adult children, and he's hoping to leave
a
legacy.
all three be moving on to the property?
Well not at this time.
In the future.
He's
trying to get it done ahead of time so they won't have to go through it.
They they want to build a re new retirement home on one of the one acres. And their son will probably be moving in their existing home. Okay, that's what I'm saying.
So they w that's where they want the extra lots.
Yeah, right. So they can leave a legacy.
I mean they might never move in. They might but you know, I wanna do I wanna do that way. That way if you decide to come from Tampa to live here in the future, they already have a s place to build a house or put a mobile home or whatever, you know.
And that brings the property into compliance for the two that are on there already. So in other words
there's there's Well actually the prior zoning already made the they got a prior zoning that allowed the second dwelling unit already. So but they want but that was it had a condition on it that they only do two. They're trying to basically rezone it so they can now do five.
But I don't know that anybody answered the question of Who's living in the second unit currently? Who's living in the mobile home currently?
Some of my family. Some of my family living here right now. And I know that the mobile phone is there. It's not having a lot of future. But I mean that one of the reasons too, you know, try to do this. Because maybe you know I mean maybe one of my kids wanna put a house in the
So why do you have two dwelling units? It's on the property, but they're not on individual lots. The previous zoning said you were going to subdivide that into two individual lots.
because when I threw the house I had to do the Sony. That was the only way I was allowed to do the house. Because you know like I said down that time there was only allowed for one really for the five acres partials. Then you know I mean when I went and see the builder they told me that I have to do the zoning for me to be able to put another trillion on the property. And I told Mr. Barlack and I say, I want this house in one
acre. And I think it it was already changing, you know, for for AR to something else, you know. But I mean he did everything. I don't really know and I don't even know that I gotta go through this in the future. But now I'm trying to do things the right way. So that way when I'm not here, my kids don't gotta face any problems, you know. They can decide build a house in it or they can decide that Sale the property and
divide whatever.
Have you had a pre application meeting with the staff regarding the subdividing the property? Yes.
Yes.
And did staff tell you you could have five lots?
They did not say that he can have five lots, they just basically explained what he would have to do in order to subdivide the property. They didn't tell him the number of lots that he can have.
Okay.
It's five point oh four, so whatever.
Well I understand that, but As soon as he has three lots, that constitutes what's called a common plan of development, and he's subject to the Swift Mud regulations. He needs to build stormwater management. And I'm sure he's going to have a discussion with the fire marshal who's going to want some sort of stabilized or paved access road into these properties. Yeah. And there's going to be improvements that are required
for a subdivision just like we require of any other developer. You don't get to just go chop up the property into five lots and not put any of the required infrastructure. We need to be able to put the infrastructure in, and that's what I'm suggesting to you is that after we have roadways and we have stormwater management ponds, and I don't know if any buffers will be applicable but that may be. Well they got
they back up to the Everglades Ranch. They the road there is on their the easement road that's on their property is on their property.
I understand that. What I'm suggesting to you is you may not get five lots after you comply with all of the other requirements of the land development code.
When I was submitting this for the first time, you know, I think it was the fire department and some county personality did just as me, you know, that all I gotta make is sure that the Isman Row is available.
Well, for instance, the state fire code says a new home has to be within six hundred feet of a fire hydrant. Is there a fire hydrant in the neighborhood within six?
They told me what distance I gotta have if I decide to do the file laps. Because like it I heard from you if I hope they understand right, if they gotta have enough space in case an emergency happens, they have a access to going in. If it's a housing buyer or anything like that. So they that's already discussed and it's already I mean to my knowledge that there's another space for whatever
duty to any heavy equipment or vehicle gotta go in for an emergency.
Am I correct that this is just removing that condition from the previous zoning and this is not a rezoning in the five lots right now. This is just removing the condition.
Basically yes, because it already is zoned AR, but it had a condition that capped them at two units. So yes, it it would have but by removing the condition you're effectively allowing five watts. You're not approving the subdivision. Up to five laws. Up to five laws. You're not approving a subdivision. And I do want to correct one thing that Mr. Moody said. The prior if you look at the conditions of the prior approval, it actually didn't require the property to be subdivided. There's a finding of fact Then
it says they intend to subdivide but
Well if you have two dwelling units on it, the code requires that it be subdivided because it's individual houses or mobile homes on individual lots. In other words, you can't just because you have two acres doesn't mean you can slap down two I understand. Dwelling units on it. It has to be subdivided and my I will be honest with you, one of my concerns here is The current applicant was the applicant under that zoning and it appears that we've
not complied with that zoning. Well
one of the other conditions was that the unpermitted mobile home be removed. Well and I don't know if it
ever was. Now today there's a s there's a site built house and there's a mobile home and then it's not subdivided and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how we even ever got a permit for that, but I guess neither here nor there. Well it was
it was done as a replacement according to the building department, except that uh they have noticed that the one the mobile home was re the m they have they have documentation from an inspector that the mobile home was removed, but then there the mobile home was brought in later on. So I don't know the timeline there. So I did check with the building department on the
So was the when it was brought back, was it permitted?
I d I don't have evidence of that.
You
can ask the applicant.
Well you uh i uh on the the in the course of getting the approval to put your home on the property, uh one of the requirements was is that you get rid of the mobile home.
W okay, well that's let long is uh let me have a mobile phone in there to I have my house built, then I can move if it's possible.
Well is your house built?
Do you have an engine do you have an
engineer? Do you have an engineer? I wanna ha I'm trying to help you. I I'm not against your case, but I think that you're operating under Very misguided advice. We have a 1500 page land development code in this county and you're when you go to subdivide this, you're gonna be required to comply with these things. And I I don't think that you've gotten the proper professional advice yet. on how to properly
subdivide this property. And ha I mean, has anybody told you you need to get a permit from the water management district?
Well, I've been doing whatever you know I've been told to do it. You know, because when I do the first thing, you know, the I call it what I want to do.
Yeah, but it's not gonna be pleasant for you when they come out to you and start issuing fines because you've built a subdivision without a stormwater management permit. It's not gonna be pleasant when you've gone and placed orders for new mobile homes or put a deposit with a contractor and the Fire marshal says there's no firefighting water supply out here.
Well that's one
of
the things that we're doing.
That doesn't mean that that's what will happen after you meet all the requirements of the Land Development Code. And so what I don't want you to do, I don't want to see you lose a bunch of money doing this, only to find out that you can't do What you want to
do. Well well that's what I need to know. That's what I'm here to hear. Because you know if it's any issues for me to get that done, I'm not gonna do it because I don't wanna do anything against that's against the law.
How is trash picked up on your property today?
How much
what? How is the garbage picked up? The garden.
I got it I I got in one of those uh big containers.
And where is that?
It's uh in uh Linmark. You know it's probably para quota uh less than a quarter mile from the house.
Because is it on your property? No. It's not on your property. 'Cause one of them one of the letters that was in the file here was from the neighbor asking concerns. about how the garbage would be picked up. And I have a concern, it looks like it's a dirt driveway, and I know the garbage truck isn't gonna drive down your dirt driveway to pick up garbage cans in front of all these unless they got a roadway. If you build a roadway, you're gonna build a stormwater pond.
Does the zoning code allow us to take and put dumpsters on other people's properties just because there's an ingress egress easement?
B see the the the trash can is right where uh Linmark.
I understand.
And and from there this as far as the public service comes. The only other service comes to my house is like you know, the UPS and but I mean any any other vehicles, you know, like garbage trucks or anything, because their role right there it's been maintaining by myself. When I bought the property, you know, I was trying, you know, to find out how can I work or do whatever to fix the road because it
was
so bad that nobody takes care of it. So when I buy the property, I was try
to
went to the county and find out that there was any way, you know, that I can do something or who owned the the road and he said nobody owned the road. And I say, okay Well I'm gonna write a piece that and put a gate on it. And he said, You cannot do that because you got somebody living behind you. And I said, Okay, that's understandable. So then he said, What you can do is go to the neighbors, and I think it was it was five people, they they gotta have approved for the county to do something with the road. You know, and and uh out of five only two agreed.
So they then I went through. So then I I haven't tried to maintain the role, but their role is only used for me and the people living on the mobile phone and and the person living behind me. That's the only people that use their rope, the easement. And of course, when I apply, they told me, Do you know you gotta have an easement road? And I said, The easement row is already there. Because they were there when I buy the property. You know, and then they say the road home balanced. Anybody. I say okay, so I'll try to do the best I can, you
know, for whoever's going in there, you know, they can be able to go to. But as far as like in the road, supposedly be the county road, there's uh the Dilma, you know, and and right there with uh neighbors on the east side, you know, that's that's the road they work to the Museum and go around to Jordan and and that's where these got the garbage can. That's where the public, you know, service comes. They don't
go any further from there because like I said I guess the rest of it is private property or something. And and then in the north side is heavily so nobody go anywhere. So you know that's only me and my neighbor living behind me and uh and the east side. They use their role. So
can I ask you a follow up to Mr. Moody's question? Yes. So who is advising you? Is are you advising him on how to get this through the approval process for the five lots?
He had a survey done. Yeah, they're not going to be able to do it.
Okay, w what what is your profession, if I can ask? Well how did you well how did you become the agent for help? She usually comes down here to adapt
the zoning.
But what is your background?
What is my background? Well, my husband and I had a heavy construction company. Yeah.
Okay. Have you ever s dealt with the development of housing or subdivided lots before?
Hi
dear.
You did it. You've taken that through design and permitting
Well
Not just construction of them.
No. I had 130 acres down in Zephyrhills. And turn up on fifty two.
And did you subdivide the hundred and thirty acres into for plots?
Yeah, we yeah. Oh yeah.
So did you explain to the gentleman How
that's a long time ago and I don't know what the codes are now. I know that we had acres of land and we had AR and we put one one in but what I did, my understanding was it's AR and you could have one unit on there whether it was a mobile home or
okay okay I'm let me get my question out though. So are you helping him just through the zoning process or do you intend to help him through the subdivision and permitting process too.
Am I gonna help them through the subdivision? I didn't think they were they were just gonna build a new home on their retirement home.
But that's what I'm trying to tell you is it doesn't work the way you think.
Here's a ball. That's what happened on my on our
I I don't know that even years ago you were allowed to subdivide into five lots without going through subdivision review. I'm not aware of any time in the county you were able to Carve up a parcel into five lots and not go through subdivision or anything.
We did, we did, we did, we went through a subdivision, yeah.
Okay, so that's my question. Are you going to help him get through subdivision review?
Well, I don't know what you know, what what it's gonna cost now or what we're um
Tens of thousands of dollars, if not a hundred. I can tell you that if you came to my company and you asked me to do this, we'd probably be somewhere between fifty and a hundred thousand dollars to to prepare all of the plans and plats and things that are required to subdivide that property.
I know that they're planning to do
And that doesn't include the improvements that you are going to have. That's just what you'd pay me.
So so can you please tell me? Because every time I'll come and try to find out and let the people know what I wanna do, they tell me yes can be that. Well yes it can be. Okay, but see the thing they don't tell me, okay, but you wanna start doing this what it's gonna cost you. The first time it's sure tell me that.
Responsibility to hire the appropriate professionals that have the required licenses to do the required licenses to do these things.
One thing you could do is just have a consultation with a land use attorney and just ask them what you want to do and see
what's strongly suggest you go see. Well, they're at the land use part of this now. They need to go see an engineer because they're going to do some. engineering and they're going to build some infrastructure.
Yeah, I'm not sure they need a landing situation.
This is a fairly simple rezoning.
The roads
That's part of the decision I'm about to make. There is no sewer and water, you're correct.
But there's all these five other five-acre parcels and nobody else has sewer and water either. I
understand that. They're not in here asking to they're not in here asking to chop them up into five more lots. Well,
excuse me. Some of the people that live in in the e in the east side, they have a four units on the property and five units. And that's one of the reasons why They got so difficult for me. And and what I'm trying to do, I don't try to do something just because. I'm trying to do something just because you know like I said, I work hard all my life to have what I have. And I wanna make sure whatever I do is according to what the requirements for the county.
And we appreciate.
And and that's why I'm here because I don't wanna get any people's time and I don't wanna give anybody's trouble. If it's not possible, fine. That's okay. I s I leave it things the way they are. But I just wanna do something because what I wanna do is not wanna make a development and make money. I just wanna make sure my kids have something.
I'm asking you the questions not because I'm against what you want to do. It's because I don't think you've been given good advice on what you can do or what the requirements are to do it. I think if we go in and we approve your zoning today you're going to start trying to build get permits for houses in your orb. set up permits for mobile homes only to get told
no and you're going to be frustrated at every turn of the process when Mr. Tippen back there says, Well, we need a we need a road, we need landscape buffers and the fire marshal wants to know what you're doing about water supply to put out fires. Those are things I don't think you're prepared to answer.
Well, because I don't know and that's why I'm here to find out. You know, because like I said, when I apply to do what I'm doing I don't apply yes because you know. I mean but uh when I see people doing what I'm gonna do and he allowed to do it, I mean I'm paying my property taxes like then. So I don't know why. I mean why I mean and it's okay. That there's that's no problem at all. I mean if it's gonna be that difficult, good to know. I don't need it like to go through all this. If it's not possible
that's fine. I mean I'm fine where I am right now. I just want to do that for my kids, you know. But I mean if it's not possible, I mean I'm not gonna be, you know, wasting anybody's time to try to do something is not possible.
Can I clarify something here? So if I understand correctly, on this guy's property currently there's one house and there's one mobile home, correct? Yes, sir. So this five-acre lot should be split.
Okay. It does not matter if you want to add one more mobile home to make three lots. or make five. It's the same amount of work. So all the things that Mr. Moody has been saying as far as all these hoops you've got to jump through and all these improvements you gotta make and all these applications you have to do would be the same for three lots or five lots, just so you're aware of that. So i in my opinion, I don't know, I think you need to get these answers before you decide whether you even want to move forward with getting this condition removed for your rezoning.
And then the other question that I have is why isn't the Cur the lot is not currently in compliance. Right. I feel like if you're coming here asking for an additional entitlement, you need to come here with clean hands. And right now I don't I I see a m mobile home, I see two dwelling units on one lot when the code requires that it be on two lots.
Yeah, AR five does not give you permission to have five units on one five acre lot.
So so what you tell me it's not possible for me to do what I wanna do. Well I'm not telling you it's not
possible. It depends on how much you wanna spend.
Well see that's why I won't try to go step by step because you know when I went into the beginning of this deal, they told me okay this is what it's gonna cost you, okay.
Can I make a suggestion? I don't want to deny you. Okay? I don't want to make a motion to deny this result.
But I might make a motion to continue it. And I would Do that. as doing you a favor. to give you time to go out and consult with an engineer. about what it is you need to do to subdivide the property. Y and you need to have a pre application meeting with the county staff and you need to have that engineer attend that pre application meeting with you and ask all of the appropriate
questions. Because there's a lot of moving parts when you want to subdivide a piece of land.
Okay, well like I said, you know, I mean I thought it what I was doing to now, I was doing the right-
I don't we're not suggesting that you're doing anything wrong. You are. It you're asking for the zoning. That's the first step. What we recognize Is that I think you're under the impression that with you walk out of here and we well, we don't get to grant the zoning, we only get to make a recommendation to the Board of Commissioners, but if the commissioners were to grant you this zoning, that you can just go start putting three or four more mobile homes on the property, and I think you're going to find out that
that's not the case.
You did you did suggest that there was a violation because there's two different dwellings in the eastern.
And that's that's I got a little bit of heartburn over there.
Well what I the reason I share Mr. Moody's concern is normally I would say This is not your problem because subdivision review is staff's problem, but I am a little concerned in this case because there's an illegal apparently there may be an illegal mobile home. So there is I understand Mr. Money's concern that we approve this or board approves it. You may get four illegal mobile homes there be and not it never goes through subdivision review. So
I'm not sure that it would get caught except through code enforcement. Um if he continues to put more mobile homes out there under the theory that The current mobile home is out there. Sir, d did you understand that I think that's part of the heartburn here is that
Some of this some of this could happen in the future. You know you could hire an engineer and go through subdivision review. But you haven't really explained how you got the current mobile home the second mobile home that's on this lot, how you got it on there. Did you get a pull a permit for it? How is it
Yes, please come forward if you have something to clarify. You need to state your name and address.
Oh I'm sorry. So I know who's talking. Maria Sanchez.
Okay. And you know
[address removed]. Okay. The Mong is in the property. It was there when we purchased The property.
But we were told that you took that mobile home
No, the the previous owner When you did that.
Just wait a minute, one second, Derek.
So when when the the owner he purchased the mow and it's right there and he moves the the other one and he just left it in the in the land And when we tried to do the house, they tell us that we had to remove them all home, so we did.
Okay.
But like I said now there's
another mobile home there.
And yeah, that's the mobile home the the previous owner li it was living.
But I thought you said you removed it.
Yeah, because it was the that Momo home and it was the old Momo home I guess the gentleman purchased and then he just never did anything with it and she left it in the property. And we did uh we uh moved that molahome from there.
But now there's somebody living there.
Yeah, this the the mobile home like I said it was there when the when we purchased the property.
But my point is they the agreement was you were supposed to get rid of that mobile home when you before you built the home.
Yes, but it w it's like I said, it was uh two mobohomes and the the mobo the second mah home was there it was I guess it was a old Momo and then the the the person that we purchased the property I guess he he bought the other uh Momo but he never removed the other one.
Well well I think the point we're all trying to make is there's supposed to be one dwelling unit on that property.
Yes.
And now there's at least two
And there could be two if it were subdivided into two lots, but that was never done.
Right. But that was never done. And So if you're gonna come back and ask uh if we do c have a continuance and then you're gonna come back and ask, you know, for a division of the property in the proper way. Unless you get rid of that other mobile home, you're you're in violation. Of your first agreement 'cause you never removed the mobile home.
Well like I said
You were only allowed one dwelling unit on the property. Yes sir. Because you didn't divide the property.
Yes sir. Okay. Well can I ask the top a question because I just want to clarify for Denise, the prior approval has a condition saying they will remove the unpermitted mobile home.
Correct.
Is the unpur admitted mobile home the one that is Currently there.
So, from my understanding, when I checked with the building department and spoke to the building department as they checked their records, is the house that was built on there was built as a replacement, was done as a replacement. In other words, the mobile home had to be removed in order for the house to be on there. The inspector verified that the mobile home was removed, and then now all of a sudden, when I look at the parcel cards, it says there's a mobile home. So that's why I was asking the building department how did that mobile home? get on there and they're like they don't they don't know based on their history of looking at the permit. So I don't know the answer to
that question.
The mobile home that's their current.
That's correct.
I assume we did permit the house.
We also did permit one mobile home, but the mob that mobile home that we permitted was supposed to be repla removed when the house was built.
Okay, so just I get all the facts pretty. At some point there was two mobile homes?
So there was one mobile home, then they're asked to build a ha then they asked to build a house with n
Okay.
so they were given uh exemption on impact fee.
Okay, so so they removed a mobile home And built a house. I assume we permitted the house. Correct.
The findings of fact, David, in the first case says presently the subject site contains a mobile home and an unpermitted mobile home.
Yeah, so
there was two.
So that yeah, that makes it sound like there's two.
So And so the house replaced the permitted one. Which left the end permanent.
Which is if there was two mobile homes at one point
Which one got removed? The unpermitted one or the or the permitted one?
According to the building department, the one that got removed was the permitted one. The unpermitted one I think they called it like a shed or they called it a they didn't call it a mobile homes a mobile home.
But what you were just saying somebody somebody's living in that place, right? And
the mobile yes.
Yeah, there's somebody living in
it. So So Denise, I guess the the bottom line is condition number two, the prior approvals have the existing unpermib unpermitted mobile homes shall be removed, or permits shall be obtained as the proposed new dwelling unit. Did that ever happen?
From what the building department has explained to me, it never happened.
And it was never permitted either. Because there are two options to remove
it or So ma'am, since you're the agent, can you explain why that never happened?
I'm not... I just was signed as our agent at here, but I don't know anything about that. I'm I don't know anything. Remobile usage.
Well you applied for the rezoning, right? You helped them apply for the rezoning?
And you applied not knowing whether they had complied with their prior condition?
Yeah.
I know that they it sounded like they had they had the right to have two two things on there. I guess my question would be
Okay. U ultimately yes it's possible to to get permission to do two. But my question is did they ever get a permit for this
I didn't even know that. And this is this is
I I don't know anything about the normal situation.
Well, I if you're acting as their agent, th isn't it incumbent upon you to know this thing?
I say if you're acting as their agent, isn't it incumbent upon you to know what's going on?
Well I probably should have. Yeah, I didn't think it was that complicated. Well I the reason I was helping them is because they needed help. Because when they went to apply they had a lot of issues and they thought maybe because they were Hispanic they did not understand. They came to move for about it.
Well we have m multilingual people here at the county that can help 'em and that's not an issue. One is one is sitting right there. You know.
Well I I I'm just trying to figure out what your role is as authorized agents. Are you
Mobiola la creen, la consent?
Are you acting as their translator or are you just a friend I don't know what your role is
more as a translator friend than an advocate, but I was Are
you being paid are you being paid to be their agent?
Nothing. I'm not vacated anything. I'm just trying to help them.
We just used to work for her and she just uh we personally tried to help us. And I mean we we don't know that we need to hire an attorney to go through all these because you know every time I try to find out what I need to do to apply for what I wanna do it, they tell me yes c it can be done. You just gotta go through this. Sir and and everything
Part of your frustration is is that you aren't willing to get competent advice. You're you're willing you're willing to just take the advice of a neighbor that may not know the answer. And then now you come in here, sort of half baked, asking us to approve something, and you haven't you don't know even know what you're doing or what you're supposed to be doing. And i you know, we i You know, it's frustrating to to the to this whole audience here, you know. We're
you know, we're we're wasting a lot of time on something because you haven't gotten the proper advice. Well and obviously she's not equipped to give you the advice, even though she's kind enough to try to help.
Denise, is Mr. Lark what is Mr. Larkin's profession? You advised him previously.
Um Mr. Larkin is in the construction industry or was. I'm not sure if he's still around because this was many, many years ago.
Did Mr. Larkin tell you that you needed to get permits for the second for your mobile home?
No, he's the one get the permits to build the house because he's the one building. But did he tell you that one of your conditions was that you had to get a permit for the mobile home?
No. No. And like I said, I don't know and and that's why I'm going through all this right now. Because you know when when I went to seehand to build a house, they told me I gotta go through the resonant process. And it's pretty much the same thing we're going through this right now. You know, it's something like it, it's not the same everything. But I mean it's something that we already know that we should down down that time and asking for like papers. Can I still acknowledge
anything, you know, I told her I don't wanna remove the mobile phone that was there when we purchased the property because the mobile phone already cared phone well and a zone City tank and things like that and I say a semi possible way. So we can just leave a mobile phone there and you go ahead and build the second relay. And he said yeah but you gotta go through zoning process and I say okay but I needed
to do that. We did go through the zoning process but there was a condition saying you had to get a permit for the mobile home.
Well that's this like I said, there's something I don't know and I apologize because like I said I went for what Mr. Larkin told me. And I went, they got my house bill, I paid it.
So when Mr. Larkin got a permit for your current home, he never got a permit for the mobile home? the mobile home was already there. I know but there was a condition of your rezoning saying you had to get a permit for that mobile home. Well or remove it. He told me
that he said you wanna go to the two meetings. I think this is one in the uh following one is the second one. He said you you want me to do for you and I say, Well if you can do for us, much better because you know exactly what you gotta do it. And he did. And everything went, you know, fine because I don't have any problems, I don't have any things
or let me ask you when you uh Messi, one last question.
Why haven't you gone to Why haven't you hired like a professional to help you with this? Well I don't
know what's the professional. Like I said, I don't know.
Well obviously she's not. Okay. I mean she's admitted she's not.
She well I I don't think I say she's a professional. She just try to help me the best way she can because like like she already said, I don't want to speak at an hour.
A licensed eng a licensed engineer would be a professional. You can look 'em up on On internet. Phone book, there's there's license a licensed engineer would be a professional
yes. But the biggest problems we have, you know, because when I started you know, I mean pretty much everything gotta go online and that's one thing I don't know how to do it and she don't know how to do it.
And that's why we have
to do this.
Ma'am, could you help him get on the internet and find a licensed engineer?
Did I? Can
you kill you?
Guessing Oh yeah, well we can look for a license of engineer. Yeah, okay.
So question for staff.
If they want to go through.
Recommend approval or denial when would this gentleman have his hearing before the BCC?
BCC is October tenth, twenty twenty three.
Okay, so a month from now. And if we were to vote for a continuance and make some recommendation that the next time we're here in Dade City, then when would he have his day before the BCC?
Then the next time you're in Dade City is October fifth, so that would put his board meeting in Dade City to November fourteenth.
Okay. And would there be, Brad, maybe you can answer this question better? Would there be
adequate time between now and November. For Him to come in and file whatever paperwork he needs to to legally split the lot and Make the lot compliance the current property in compliance.
So this is kind of a complicated question. You're
gonna give me a complicated answer.
Um my understanding is this is a parent parcel. This is a parent parcel. So to do the first split they don't have to go through our subdivision process. Okay, so then there's enough time. So that narrows that that piece down. If they want a third lot, then they would need to go through a process. It would likely be the the MRS minor rural subdivision process. Uh but we likely could not have it done that fast. Correct,
but they could. It's a parent parcel so he so we if if we were to continue this until the next meeting in the eight city, there would be adequate time to correct the existing violation and come back here when with no violation is what I'm asking.
That's correct. But obviously he needs to be careful when he makes that first split. Uh
that's why I'm
suggesting he get an engineer. In my opinion, I think before anything happens, he needs to meet with a professional engineer, try to schedule a pre app meeting to go through what's gonna be required of the county, even decide whether
he wants to go forward with it. So, we could could we continue to a date uncertain within
the right-of-way.
With the applicant kind of back when he's ready.
Well we're asking my next question. Okay, please.
So yes, right. Well David would remind me anyways.
We never did hear what your concerns were. You said you wanted the item pulled. I did.
Oh.
So you
can hear John, right?
Do
you have different concerns
than what
Mr. Moody's states? I have several concerns, but I I like to know if there's any opposition, first of all.
Okay. So we've heard the presentation. We know what the possible solution is. Is there anybody here in opposition to this application?
And for the record I have no one signed up on WebEx.
All right. Then
that case. I have several concerns. There were three letters. One of them was addressed, which was the trash can. And I guess the other one was a concern that was written that I read was the fact that the roads he claims that the roads are I don't know how he explained it, but he's got a road that he's gonna maintain. But there was one person that had a concern about the road and then the maintenance of it and the condition. of the road and the traffic. And my main concern is you have in your the documentation I read there was going to be property
was going to be divided. into mobile homes for family. Well what happens when the family moves out or the family does not move in? Now do we have five apartments that we're gonna convert to apartments for income? There's another question I asked. So
to be
to be
clear, unless they're doing what's called a limited family subdivision, which rarely occurs, if they do any other type of subdivision, minor rural subdivision or just a regular subdivision, those are those lots can be sold to anybody. That's true. They're
not limited to family members. But in the documentation, he wants to and he has said here how publicly that I want to bring my family here. wherever they're at and then I want to have them live on my property. True? Yes sir. Okay. But what happens if they move, they decide not to come here, I don't know where they're coming from. Then will we take these this property and subdivide it into apartments? And that's my concern. Well I to be clear, I don't think they
could get apartments could okay
five units. Okay to rental users. The mobile homes become rental units then.
That is a possibility that
if you
buy
rental units. Yeah. And then the issue becomes sanitation, electricity, uh water. Never heard anything on that nor did I read too much in the documentation which I thought I printed off today, but I did not. So those were not answered and uh I think they need to be addressed.
I think he gets those answers from the engineering when he does the pre app meeting. I mean I d I think we've we've we've talked about this. I mean I don't I don't again Yeah we uh it's appreciated that you're trying to do the right thing and we're not trying to Uh Make you feel like you're not doing the right thing. I think it's just We wanna make sure you know what you're getting into before we approve something and it might not be something that you're even looking to do or Well you might think you want to do it now but you when you find out all the answers you might not want to do it in the future. So And
we do have I do have one message for the aging. So I I realize that the applicant has limitations, language limitations, expertise limitations. In my opinion, what you should have done is directed them to a licensed professional, not tried to handle it yourself. I'm just being honest with you. I mean because they clearly need more advice than you can give them. So I think what you probably should have done is helped them get on the internet and find
a licensed professional. It sounds like maybe you can still do that. Right?
I you know I'm not hearing you.
Nobody said anything if I anybody was have a like repr representing us because you know I figured what I was trying to do and just try to find who I need to see or who I need to talk to it to let it know what I wanna do. And I'm pretty sure, you know, if I come to the court and and try to ask somebody there what I need to do they probably tell me you don't need it
so so sir yeah I'm I'm trying to help you. I'm just saying that if you can't get on the internet yourself to find the licensed professional maybe she can help you do that.
She will.
Okay. Take that
Denise, do you have something?
Excuse me.
Um I just wanted to say and and I'm very much begging you that you do not continue this to a date uncertain. With all due respect the Sanchezes are wonderful human beings, are great. We're very happy to work with them, very happy to work with Miss Janke. But all the communications have to be done by mail. It's very difficult having this property posted. There's actually even a hold harmless here based on they didn't hold the neighborhood meeting properly.
Yeah, can we talk about that?
We really need to continue it. If you have to continue it a month out, we'll continue it again. But the problem is that continuing it to a date uncertain is going to force them to have to re- Yeah. And that has been problematic for us. Okay. So I'm I'm just stating that I'm just stating the
facts. So can I can I ask Mr. Gerardi or Mr. Moody a question? Realistically, if they find an engineer sometime in the next week or two, how long before they could uh maybe Rad knows, before they get a pre app scheduled to get answers to some of these questions.
Well that's a Brad question. Red
loves a bad question. Um Theoretically it can be pretty quick. I mean we have a a a quick preamp process that you can do immediately after you have your engineer as long as it takes them to kind of put together a concept plan or to schedule a meeting, it's running around three weeks right now if you're flexible.
And my comment to that, David, is they'll get the pre app faster than they're going to find the engineer to take the case right now. I mean if you came to me I'm I'm booked for the next six months. I
Okay. Anise, did you want to say something?
I wanna add to that only because of factual matter that I asked how quickly we can get a prepp, not on this particular case, but I asked this exact same question on Tuesday, and right now they're scheduling pre eps into the third week of October. Again, it was just two days ago that I asked that question.
So Denise, how how long would you recommend we continue this to give them enough time to find an engineer? It may not be Mr. Moody, it sounds like um any engineer, any licensed engineer. Um And get a pre out before they come back here. Two months?
At minimum two months.
Okay.
And then I have one other last question.
And I'm sorry to bring up the last case, but I have one concern is
We give them five, one acre lots at AR, then does the next person come in and decide they want 10 R1 M H.
So my question is, is there any compatibility problem with ER versus AR here? In other words, would would the current land use, would the comp plan allow for us to rezone this as ER rather than AR?
Is the concern with AR the mobile homes is the concern? The reason I'm asking that is because you know you have AR One. that that's only for site built homes.
Okay. Well that might be an option for me, yeah.
I'm just asking if there's a if there's any comp well I I realize it may not work for the applicant, but I'm asking is there any compatibility issues? Is there any reason that we could not make that recommendation from a comprehensive planning perspective? I'm not suggesting that I'm going to, but
So is AR one considered a more stringent rezoning than AR, I guess 'cause it's site built or is it
It's it's the same lot size, the same minimum lot width, the same setbacks, the same uses but for mobile homes. Now I will say that um and let me give it a very rough measure there are parcels that while they're not zoned AR one, they're zoned AR five, which is the compatible five acre lots that can only have single family homes. Because they could have done an AR five M H which is for mobile homes. Um probably
around five hundred feet from here. Let's see.
Well I'm asking the question, Denise, because if if it's advertised as AR I'm trying to figure out whether Planning Commission could without making them renotice, recommend AR one as opposed to AR. If it got to that point.
So could it be that the Planning Commission denied It's still coming in for an AR. The Planning Commission deny AR but recommend AR one? Is that could that be the
Well, I mean that's what I'm asking. Generally you can if it's a sort of a m more stringent or if it if you advertise something that was sort of less stringent and you approved something more stringent, generally that's okay from a notice standpoint. That's why I asked you the question.
What would be the difference, primary difference between A R one and E R? Site
built
home.
Right. Well E R, um the lot width in E R is wider than AR.
Okay.
And um also there are ER, for example, I know this is very minimal, but you can't have roosters. Whereas in A R and A R One you could have roosters. You could have chickens and roosters.
Okay.
Yeah, like roosters. I got one. I got two.
But there are no there are no E R lots anywhere near here. I mean
I won't have any this weekend though.
So if if the Planning Commissioner Board wanted restricted to site built homes, you'd recommend AR one?
A R one. You could have modular homes in AR one, you could have a modular and ER as well. Because we consider modular and site built similar. Just not manufactured
and mobile.
Correct.
So it's best if this gets continued for two months, is that what I hear you saying?
Yes. Yeah, and then we can always extend it further if we need to. But this won't be to a date uncertainty.
What did happen with the neighborhood meeting that didn't happen? What was the program then?
Yes, I can absolutely tell you that. So what happened at the neighborhood meeting is there are two things, the notice. So first off, this is in a Res One future land use classification, which requires a one thousand foot notice. Notification. They did not conduct a 1,000 foot notification. I believe they did 500 feet. And then secondly they didn't post a sign. for the neighborhood notice. So they did the mailing to five hundred fee But they didn't post a sign.
And they didn't m do the mailing to a thousand feet. So they they insisted on being heard. Um
That's why they signed signed the whole harmless.
You know, that's not fair to the public. They did not get their notice.
Well, three people did.
Right. But all the peop the the other there there are people who were required to be notified that were not notified. Is that what we're saying?
That is accurate. It would have pulled it it it would have pulled a few more people in.
Correct. Was the notice done by Mr. Sanchez or the agent?
I I can allow them to answer that question because I I just get the actual physical notice because everything everything with this situation has been mailed to me. Everything is mailed or sent in her office.
I I have a follow up question. To me it doesn't matter who sent the notice or didn't send the notice.
You're asking for not a date uncertain so that it's not re-noticed. I now got some heartburn that it wasn't noticed and wanted noticed.
What just a moment, just a moment. Let me let me very be very clear. The neighborhood notice was not noticed accurately. The notice for being here today, that was done properly. Because we actually Did the sign for them. We gave them every single bit of information. We did the last time too, but we didn't do their sign. But we gave them all the information what to do, but they just the the instructions were not followed. It was
the neighborhood meeting notice that was
That is accurate. The neighborhood meeting notice was not properly done. The notice for today's hearing and the board hearing in October, that was properly done.
I think we're down to the point where we pretty much know where we want to go with it, so let's make the motion. Well you'll be it beat this dead horse
to the I'll make a motion to continue this item until November 3rd.
November 2nd, Planning Commission at 130 in Dade City.
Yes.
Second. Motion and second any further discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, signed.
Okay,
continue then.
And please go find an engineer before you come back.
Yeah, I hope you can find some of us in that time frame even
Pardon me.
I hope we'll be able to find one that that can do it.
I'm sure you
will.
And address the the two the mobile home You need to get that fixed. I mean the mobile home issues. So that needs to either be uh it needs to be divided.
Right. Properly subdivide the existing property. The existing property right now is not in compliance and it needs to be fixed before you come back. Can't get a permit.
So each unit has to sit on its own individual lot. Currently, two units are sitting on five acres. So each unit has to sit on a minimum of one acre and a lot that's at least 125 feet wide. That's not the case what there is Right now there's two units sitting on there on five acres.
House and building a
correct
I don't want to do that.
But it has to be divided. So one unit sits on a minimum of one acre, the other unit sits on four acres, however you want to divide that.
You need to have the property surveyed. The surveyor needs to create legal lots. You need to go record legal dis legal descriptions with the property appraiser and have parcel ID numbers assigned.
It's all part of why you need an engineer. In addition, you never it appears you never got per there's no permit for the mobile home. Neither. So you have a you have a lot issue and a permitting issue of the mobile home?
Ma'am, I I understand that you don't understand. All I'm asking that you do is find them somebody that does.
Yeah, I know. I'm into the web right
there. Okay, thank you.
Very good.