PC2 PDD-23-7736 Martha Dexter rezoning AR to R1MH
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Sep 7, 2023
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Sep 7, 2023
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What was said
Machine transcription of 31m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 84% of 243 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
All right, so you wanna go back in uh back to PC two?
Uh yes.
Are they s are there specific questions or do you want me to I don't know that I actually have a PowerPoint for that one?
Okay. Um yeah, let's go back to B C two. Okay. Is the applicant present?
I believe the applicant is right behind me.
Okay. Um, do they want to make a presentation of any kind?
I I don't have a a PowerPoint on that one. Um
they like a make a verbal present.
So I can I can go over the uh the information.
That's fine.
Okay. So currently the parcel is zoned AR agricultural residential, which by definition is a one acre lot. Um the parcel is 1.05 acres, um located on the north side of Clearview Drive, approximately 500 feet east of Land Drive. And the property owner wants to a rezon a rezoning to R One M H single Family Mobile Home District, which by definition are twenty thousand square foot lots, in order to subdivide the property to have a second home on the newly created lot. That is
what's being proposed.
Okay.
So I believe that the um the Planning Commission may have some questions on that.
Can you put up the zoning now?
Of course.
There's no kind of an aerial of that area or anything like that.
We'll we'll bring we'll bring those. We'll bring everything up for you.
Okay, thanks.
So is that what you wanted to see, the the zoning map?
Yes.
Okay.
But can you is it possible that you can do it from like Pasco Mapper or the property appraiser?
There was a thrown down.
So the flu is res three and res one.
And can you zoom out a little?
Perfect.
Okay, so
The parcels immediately adjacent to this parcel are all zoned AR, but I see that there's a few R1 M Hs in the neighborhood.
Correct.
And I'm curious in reading the kind of history that talks about that there were a few of these parcels rezoning from AR to R1MH with conditions. Do we know what the conditions were?
They were the standard conditions. Um when we used to put conditions on zonings, that basically said that either they have to go through a subdivision review if it was required, um calculation of allowable density and intensity. intensity, those type of things.
Can you put it the land use map?
Absolutely.
Can you can you put up the land use for that person?
So this is a curiosity question. It's res 1 immediately to the east of this lot, and this lot is right on the boundary of res 3.
Yes.
I was perplexed when I looked at the map in that The boundary between res 1 and res 3 is drawn right through a middle of a subdivision, an existing subdivision flat.
Yes.
And I couldn't figure out any rhyme or reason why that would be.
Yeah,
I don't I don't
have an answer for the Rhyme or reason either.
So the reason that I wanted to hear this case is I'm betwixt and between on this. Yes.
under the Res III future land use category, you could theoretically put three dwelling units per acre. But it doesn't seem to make sense with what's immediately to the east and the zoning that's immediately to the north, south, east, and west of the property. And I recognize that there are other are other R1 MH. Properties in In proximity.
Yes.
But they're not immediately adjacent.
Right. Did you also see the parcel that's across the street to the south that got a density variance? And
I'm curious what is exactly was a density variance.
Density variance is something that um existed in the 1980s, um, where in this particular case the person, so I looked at this item, the person came in to apply for a a different zoning district, but was actually issued a density variance to allow um having to two to um two home sites on one one point oh five acres. It doesn't exist anymore today, but it was something that was available back in the eighties.
Also John too I'd point out that all the R one M Hs that are there are in the R three.
So there's nothing.
Correct. And um it di you do also have a finding uh your finding a fact number Nine, uh that long range planning reviewed it and they didn't have any comments. They didn't have any.
Well I understand long range. That might be that long range planning reviewed it, but I'm a little sensitive to this particular issue and that I happen to live on AR's owned property.
Yeah.
And I don't think I'd be too happy if the neighbors on either side of me decided that they wanted to split their lots, and in my case I could split it into three or four lots. and turn it into a de facto mobile home park. When that's not the character of my neighborhood. Now I did look at street views on this property, and I will say that given what's around the
applicant's property, I can't say that I blame 'em that they want to split this lot. In fact, I'm curious why code enforcement isn't out there cracking down on all the illegal dwelling units. on that street. I went down the Google Street View and those were pictures taken in April of 2022. And I think just to the east of the applicant's property there's somebody there with a One of ten sheds that you can buy on the side of the road sitting in the front yard. It's clearly a dwelling unit. Two
mobile homes on the property. And in the AR zoning district you're allowed Single family homes or mobile homes on quote individual lots. And they're not, and it's all over the neighborhood. So I can see why they'd want to do it. All their neighbors are collecting rent or have relatives living cheaply on their properties in violation of the zoning code. But I know that if this started happening in my neighborhood, I'd
start to get upset about it. And my concern is I don't want to start a precedent. where if you've got AR zoned lots that you can just come in and start Splitting them asking for R1MH zoning. and doubling the density in an area, and then these folks don't have to do anything that we require of our regular developers. In fact, one of the findings of fact was that the road was a substandard
road, but since this this particular zoning action wouldn't generate more than 20 trips to the road, they're exempt from the substandard road. Well that's all good until the next neighbor does it and the next neighbor does it and the next neighbor does it and now I've got a hundred trips or two hundred trips. And the other thing that I see too is I think the people that have the AR zoning around them have an expectation of setbacks in that district. In the AR zoning district, there's a 50-foot front
yard setback and a 25-foot side yard setback. But once we change it to R1MH, then it's a 30-foot front setback and a 15-foot side setback. So if I have the AR property, my expectation is the closest my neighbor's house can be to the side of me is fifty feet because it's twenty-five feet on my side and twenty-five feet on the other. Now all of a sudden that's reduced.
So I'm not sure and the reason that I polled this is because I wanted to hear from the other board members and what you think.
In some ways I can see
Mr. Middy before we it seems like we're kind of getting toward board discussion, but I don't think we've heard from the applicant yet. So I think we need to hear from the applicant before we start getting into discussion among the board members. Fair enough.
Okay, and uh I did ask uh at the very beginning if the applicant would like to make their presentation and and I think what I've heard was that they don't have a presentation. So uh
maybe they now that they've heard Mr. Moody's concern, maybe they can at least address the concern.
Well they do get rebuttal so
Well should be
let me let me just ask is uh the applicant in light of the current concerns you've heard. Would the applicant like to make some statements or bring us up to date on what your intentions are, what your thinking is
Who's the applicant?
Okay. Uh sure, absolutely. Yeah.
Okay, we need need just need your names and your addresses.
Martha Dexter. And you want my residence or what My residence is [address removed].
So you don't live on this site?
I
can't hear
Debbie.
No. She does not.
Okay.
Sir, can we get your name and address for the Yeah,
we need that too. Darren Deach, [address removed]
And were you both sworn?
Yes.
Particularly notice those two. Yeah.
Okay, d did you hear the concerns that that Mr. Moody was expressing?
Uh yeah I
and would you like to address those in light of the fact that that she may not have heard the whole thing.
So there was a uh fifty, sixty year old mobile home on that property that was in terrible repair.
We need to get you a little closer to the
mic. Sorry. There was a uh fifty or sixty year old mobile home on the property that was in in disrepair. Uh she just knocked that down and put a brand new really nice five bedroom on it, cleaned up the yard and uh uh The thinking behind the splitting was, so that's an income rental property for her, is develop the other side to possibly move over sometime soon as uh she's over in New Port Richey and it's very far for me to go over to help her
out with anything around the house, so she'd make basically be closer to me. So
I live about eight minutes away. And do you live on the property? I've not, yeah, no. Okay.
So you would have two rental properties, is that what you're talking about?
Uh two rental properties until she is you know. Yeah, I gotcha.
Okay. And can I ask you a question? The proper the building you replaced the mobile home with, is that a Site build home or is it a mobile home? It's a mobile home. Okay. So you're seeking to put a second mobile home?
Correct. Okay.
Okay.
So
it's double wide, five bedroom, three baths.
Okay. So in fact you have you what you want to have is a Well for the lack of a better thing, i it's be like a duplex. Two families would live there.
Well on on two half acre lots. Yeah, I understand that. So she moved to one side and then the other one side could still produce income for her. But
yeah,
yeah.
She's not planning for her to move over there to the one and then still keep the other one as an income producing. Correct.
But after the property is sold or if they don't own it.
Under the R1 MH zoning, one can also build a duplex on that twenty thousand square foot lot.
With a special exception, not by right.
I thought that was my
Where does it say this a special exception?
So the by right uses are in five twelve point two A, principal uses, single family detached on individual lots, non-commercial boat slips, public schools, community gardens, and community farms. So if you go down to special exception, five one two point four A duplexes. Gotcha.
All right.
Okay. Anything else you'd like to explain or tell us about?
Only if you have other questions.
Yeah more questions than anyone? Uh I think you wanted this ball too, didn't you Pete?
No, it's
actually the nice one. I'm I heard uh actually actually I do. If uh if it counts for anything, um uh we took one of the worst properties in the neighborhood and made it probably one of the nicest properties in the neighborhood. So uh I wish the Google Street View would show you the the recent for you. of it. Um it was a previous border property uh with drugs and issues. So now it's absolutely beautiful.
Okay.
Okay, well um is there anyone here to object?
They want to speak a g in oppos in opposition to it. If not, then I'll just hear comments from up here. There. I have no other comment really anything
to add.
Right. Uh Chris? Nope. Eight.
Th the the concern I have is that it it was brought out earlier by Ms. Mooney that the continuing violations are going to be enforced by code enforcement. And therefore would we, by granting this, create a situation where then we are contributing to that code enforcement dilemma? What else?
Could you elaborate a little more?
Yeah, you indicated that the this area was in the presentation there that the code enforcement folks are not enforcing some of the codes that go with this particular zoning for this particular
Didn't appear to be, yeah. Or
appears to be, I think. You're right. But
you're talking about the neighborhood, not
this particular.
Well even in the street view on this property, can we pull up the street view? I don't know whether it's still there today, but in the street view there's an accessory structure in the front yard.
So you know, if there was a an exception that was made by a previous board, then I could see the fact that there would be a following or there uh there would be some I can't think of the term in the law, but it's a kind of like it's it's there it's been done in the past, it was approved by an organization and therefore we feel like we're grandfather
You mean like a grandfather thing.
Or grandfather. But I I don't see that here and and considering the fact that she lives in New Port Richey I have a concern that the property would be turned into basically two mobile homes which would be rented out. And I'm not sure how that would benefit the area itself. That that's my concern.
Well, cleaning out the old and burning new I think is a benefit. Uh the other thing is we're trying to do it the right way, unlike most of the rest of the neighborhood. So
There
was actually a comment I was gonna make too because a lot of other folks in neighborhoods seem to be living multiple units on one property
one of the reasons for my like I said, I can see two sides. I I I'm very hesitant hesitant. to set a precedent throughout the county, well that if you have AR property, we're just gonna find R one M H consistent with it and we're gonna go in and start doubling and tripling the existing densities in the neighborhood. You know, the street I live in I'm paying a paving assessment. all of a sudden my neighbor who's got
six acres decides to chop it into twelve lots.
When do those people pay? I'm the one paying for all the street frontage that I have. and now all of a sudden I have all these neighbors I didn't have.
When I moved into the zoning district, I had an expectation that that z that was the district in which I was zoned.
The problem is the precedent's already set. That's ten other properties that have been
rezoning on one and a agree. That's that's the that's the negative that's the uh that's the side uh
Well I don't know that I don't know that the precedent has been set because I don't know that they were there. Yeah, I think they might be there in violation of the zoning. No, there's
a lot of things.
Right. They're there and there's a list of zoning where they were rezoned and those all happened twenty years ago. In fact, one of them I think was done in 2021. to the north. Yeah.
Yeah, I guess my thoughts is I d I don't know that these folks should be penalized for trying to do it the right way. Um I I I completely understand where you're coming from. But these folks are trying to do it the do it the right way. Um unlike a apparently a bunch of the neighbors because I can see exactly what you're saying on Street View for sure.
Yeah, I I agree with you, Chris.
Yeah, but you're right. There should be more code enforcement for the
right-of-way.
This is a case where I feel like I'm my hands are tied because we're not allowed to condition a Euclidean zoning. The way I would fix this If I were to do that would say fine, you adhere to the same setbacks as in AR.
Maybe they could voluntarily deed restrict their property to do that? That would be up to the applicant.
The second home would still be following the setbacks 'cause we're gonna put it exactly right beside
and I understand that's your intent. But properties get sold and that doesn't mean that the next owner will do those things. And just because Самоанин. I your your intent is to put a new mobile home How do we know if something happens to you and the property becomes sold that somebody doesn't go find an old nineteen seventy-two mobile home and put it on the property? Those are things that
can happen. They happen
every day.
So that's something you can volunteer to do with a deed restriction.
I don't know if they'd want to s tear down a brand new home to put a nineteen seventy two home. And I think that's restricted anyway. I don't think you can do something.
We're not asking you to tear down a home. I appreciate that a new home was put on the property. Like I said, my concern is that we start to open up the door in every neighborhood that has AR zoning throughout the county to make them R1MH neighborhoods. I think when people move into that. And in this case, the vast majority of the homes lots in the there's there's a smattering of R one M H's And
I don't Whether they was zoned rightly, wrongly, or otherwise, but the vast majority of them are one acre lots that are AR. I am suggesting code enforcement should go clean
them up.
But I think they those owners and future owners have an expectation that that's That's the zoning district in which they move to. I mean When I look at this map it's almost like Well We go into a neighborhood that's R two and start rezoning them all R Four.
We just cut it we'll just cut all the lots in half and you guys can have Double the
Denise, can you clarify the difference in setbacks between AR and R1?
Absolutely. Yes. So the AR district, as Mr. Modi has stated earlier, the setbacks are 50 front, 50 rear. And that's uh measured from the property line unless there's an easement, then it wouldn't be measured from the easement line. Um for the district that they are requesting, which is R One M H The setbacks are 30 from the front property line, 15 from the side property line, and 30 from the rear property line.
with their existing mobile home, the one they put there meet the AR subpacks.
The existing mobile home, based on my the measurements that I'm taking, exceed the AR setback. So they're it's more than fifty feet from the front property line.
What about from the side? What's the side setback for AR?
AR the side setback is twenty five. Uh let's see what it's giving it a very rough measure.
And we are set up to one for that.
S it appears they're actually like over forty feet from the s from the west side. the east side they're way beyond because it's that's where they have space to place the
Right, but when you place another mobile home there, what we don't know is they're allowed to come as close as fifteen. And the thing we're going to find is when we take I have no idea where the well in the septic system is on this property, but that's going to probably limit uh where things can go because there are minimum sep there are seventy five foot separations between wells and septic systems. So what they're going to find is because the well on the one side of the property where they've got the mobile home currently
and the septic for that is going to influence where that can go on the other proposed parcel.
That's correct. I I and and Mr Moody I know you're you know quite a bit about this. I think there might be also some reductions, right, because it was platted prior to Nin nineteen seventy two? Uh huh.
On this one? No.
Okay. I thought there was
a lot
of things.
They would get reductions the existing lot. If they split the lot, there's no reduction. Because now it's not a little bit of a lot of people. Because this is part of a platform.
It's a h it's a lot that had to exist in nineteen seventy two. Okay. So
it's uh city water.
Uh city water.
S uh same with sewage or uh yeah. Well no sorry, sorry, it's septic. Septic so we put in a brand new septic with the home that we put and for the second lot we would have to also put in a brand new septic, but city water so there's no well issues.
So
it sh in theory that should be able to be done with those larger setbacks. So you're saying that he could voluntarily create a deed restriction for the same the fifty, fifty and twenty three.
He would have he'd have to voluntarily agree to restrict the property to basically AR setbacks. if they want to do that, you can't compel them right. All you can do is vote it down. If they don't agree to that, but you can't condition it. Right.
So are you willing to condition the property to that effect?
We could do two of the three. We could do the fifty feet from the front, we could do the twenty-five from the side neighbor, the two properties themselves are like nineteen or twenty if the proposed has to be. You mean along
the common property
not in which you
along you mean the two mobile homes that you're talking about? Yeah, yes. Well that's not a setback.
Well
it will
be 'cause it's not.
It will be
when they split it. Yeah, it'll be a set. But but it's to themselves, so it's not affecting others,
okay.
Okay, so you are willing to to offer that.
That's that's where we're planning on sending it anyway, with the twenty five and then plus fifteen parallel with the other one.
All right. Well John you that would you have the most
concern, so if you want to make the motion that would seem appro if you're willing to do that, then you've got my vote and I'll move to approve.
So just to be clear, we're talking about I'm looking up the I'm just looking up at the AR setbacks here.
So AR setbacks on every property line except for the common property line between the two.
So it's fifty foot front, fifty foot rear.
Twenty five foot east side.
Twenty five feet on the
east side and fifteen feet on the west side.
Is that what you're agreeing to? Yep. Yes. And you're willing to do a deed restriction that says that? Yeah. That would be approved. You'd be signing the deed restriction in conjunction with this rezoning. Yeah. Sure. That's that's exactly right. If she's the owner, can we get her to say yes? Yes. Say yes. Yes.
I can understand about three quarters and then I can throw the easel.
Okay. Can I ask you a quick what's your role in this? Are you family or are you I'm a son. Okay. I'm your son. Okay, thank you.
He's my son and my executor and my beneficiary. I'm eighty one and he's gonna take care of his mother.
It'd be a good son.
In good time. Yeah, right now it's just my hair.
It's okay.
I will second.
Okay, so we have a motion. We have a second any further discussion? Not all signify by saying aye. I'm gonna vote.
I I have a concern about sewage, utilities. I just have a I have something at the back of my mind that I cannot vote yes for this. So
we have one nay vote. Would you like to do a roll call?
Hi.
No.
Aye. Okay.
Aye.
Okay.
Fifty one.
And I d don't know what ability I have, but I'm asking staff to please send code enforcement out to that neighborhood and make everybody else that wants to do it out there do it legally. There's if you street view it, the number of violations is more than I have fingers and toes to count on. Yeah, I agree. Thank
you. They did a tone sweep a while back. And
apparently it didn't work.
There was expectations and that was gonna do a lot and I was a big advocate for that because, you know, we've invested a lot in cleaning it up and making it nice and I I chose like it you have to have five broken down boats and cars as a pre prerequisite to just move into the neighborhood, you know. Um they did not they
I'm more concerned a couple of people
mow their yard and cut down some weeds.
I'm uh I'm more concerned with These are one acre lots and there are clearly illegal dwelling units on the lots. And it's not one lot, it's multiple lots on that street if you look at the street view.
Well thank you for doing it the right way.
We appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
So Mr. Hansel, um if you I might be able to address the vagability concerns because we went through a lot of that putting this.
Sure, you actually don't have to.
You don't have to address those concerns anymore.
How do we do the deep restriction? Who do we do that with? When does it have to be done? Denise can Denise can
call. So Liam will be helping you with that. And you'll hear from our office on Friday, if not on Monday. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.
And that's David's way of telling you you don't have to be nice.
Yeah, we'd
like a way to go.
Well you already won. I wait
to see you say something different.
We'll we'll hold your hand through that.
Process. Thank you.