Open code violations and flood zone permits
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Apr 18, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Apr 18, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 18m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 99% of 123 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
And we can make note of those things and put them on the record. Um so is there anybody here to speak and something that's not on today's agenda.
Mr. Chairman Shram here to speak on something that is not on today's agenda.
Okay. You wanna come forward, give us your name and address? Mr. M and um State your case.
Bayonet swear.
Yeah, we'll we'll get them all sworn. Okay. Before you start, Ms. Stram, um we're gonna just uh swear everybody in that may come and speak today, so If you think you might want to give up and give get up and give testimony today, if you'll raise your stand and raise your right hand. And be sworn, please.
Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God?
I do.
Okay.
Thank you. My name is Alicia Schramm. Um I live um do you want my whole address? Yes, ma'am. Yes, [address removed].
Thank you.
So I've come before your committee um with um two items. Um gonna try to get it done in three minutes, and um it is about code violations. So in nineteen eighty two Pasco join Pasco County joined FEMA. And FEMA had flood regulations for any flood zoning in the county. And Pasco County follows those codes. Those codes in some of
our neighborhood, when people did requested from the building department permits for codes. codes, they were often not closed codes. We have multiple now and the realtors um have not been disclosing the codes either. and aren't required by f hard, fast law for disclosure. And so I bought a home recently in
Pasco County, didn't know about the code violation, and I bought the house two years ago. And so when I went to sell the house is when I discovered that we had a code violation from the appraiser from the bank. And so I can't even sell the house right now because of the disclosure, the lack of disclosure. So I am in a lawsuit involving All three realtors. The owners as well as two real estate agencies.
We have multiple codes in the county. So what I've done is I've looked at real estate in Pasco County. And what they did in 1982 when they joined FEMA, when Pasco County joined FEMA, so it would help with some of the insurance. c um uh a cost, et cetera, and you know insurance companies are lead leaving the state of Florida for this very reason. is that they grandfathered in homes only from nineteen eighty two and back. Anything from eighty two forward
that was built and my home was built in two thousand two. It was remodeled in two thousand seven, two thousand eight. And your building inspector came to my home because I called him, because the house was up for sale, and then I took it off the market immediately when I found out about the code violation. From my realtor. And I had bought this home from the same realtor who was selling it. She never disclosed that code and neither did the owners. So what I'm wondering about is when are we going to be, or
what is the Pasco County's building inspector's responsibility for getting these codes closed? So if you open a permit, let's say for a shed, okay? And you want a shed and you're in the flood zone, they're not gonna allow you to have a shed. So not only does the owner have to go back and close that permit, but the county doesn't do anything about it. Now I'm not criticizing the county, okay? But I think that the appraiser's office and the building code
um inspection offices need to um Help us out with that. They're not fining the owners, otherwise I probably would have known about this. And we have a lot of open code violations in this county. Okay? And it's a simple computer program probably already available to the appraiser's office that all the codes would be either closed and that we would have to grandfather in those homes for the last twenty years. My
home is two thousand two. You know, it's now two thousand twenty four. So twenty some years ago this permit has been open this long. And no one including Our wonderful Pasco County offices, and I can't say enough about how well you guys do your work. When I came to this county, it was amazing that I came here for my driver's license. It's a well oiled machine. I can't say enough about how well you do such a great job. I
know you listen to a lot of complaints, but this is a pretty serious one because this is a very serious lawsuit. It's the only way. So I have 1700 square feet Of of livable or what you call heated space. The house was advertised as three thousand. Fourteen square feet. With one extra bedroom and one bath. It is all illegal. Had the county done something to close the code after
let's say a year or two years even, you know, when you're building a new home, that code should be when you're remodeling a home, it's not gonna take you more than a year or two to remodel that home. It's not gonna take you more than a a few years, and we know that it takes a long time to build a house, you know, because I know I lived uh close to Starkey Ranch when I first came. I have friends that are waiting four years for a home. But this is these are codes. So when I went to some of the realtors and looked at some of the homes that
they had in my neighborhood in the woodlands. They were not disclosing these open code violations. I came down to the county building, looked up the codes for these houses, and they're all illegal. So I I feel like we either get grandfathered in You know, that we can amend, you know, our regulations. And at least anything that's older than twenty years or ten years or even five. that we get grandfathered
in as well because we have a lot of people coming to the state of Florida right now that are gonna be b buying these illegal homes with no knowledge. I was a nurse practitioner. How would I know anything? about open code violations. I have learned so much with this lawsuit. And I do need you know, to address this so that this doesn't happen to somebody with their life savings. Your home is is a is one of your biggest investments in your life. I'm going through a lot of
stress right now. And I don't think it's called for. I think that we could have avoided this by approaching it from a county and a state regulatory and that we get those codes closed or that we grandfather these homes in that are already there. My house is not even insurable with open codes. So if we get into a hurricane and my house blows down, I lose my entire investment.
So let me understand. Do you have a home that was built up and then they fit finished off the bottom
after
the
After FEMA after we joined FREMA in nineteen eighty two. In two thousand two the house was built and in two thousand seven they remodeled this downstairs completely. And that open code has been open since two thousand seven.
And those those downstairs units Mm, probably a lot of people don't know, maybe they do know, but they're not insurable. So I mean that That should give people a a big uh clue right off the bat that they're
and so the realtors you know are selling these homes. Um there is a state law that you have to disclose any open code violation, and that's not being being taken into consideration when they're selling the homes. Remember, we were in a big glut of selling homes. Homes in Florida two years ago or three years ago before the interest rates went up. And so because you grandfathered the homes that were built before FEMA Then
what are we going to do with the last since 1982 to present when these codes aren't even closed by the county? And the county has a lot open right now, not just in my neighborhood. But in every neighborhood that they've done this type of remodel that's in a flood zone.
So in this case there was never a permit pulled, right? It was just
permit was pulled. Oh,
so they did
pull a permit on that.
By our building department.
I'm surprised they pulled a permit to finish out the downstairs which is not Allowed.
Exactly. Or Or that if you're going to remodel, that you remodel with the standards that the county has established that they shouldn't have you know, that if you're going to open a code With planning Okay, and and a permit from the county, and they look at that and say, No, you can't have this, then the county closes that code. immediately because they don't approve of any of the flood zone disregards. in
the planning or the architect or
Well
sh it
should have never been pulled. The permit should have never even been issued in the first place.
It was and it was. Right.
If if that was the case.
And it's still open. Yeah. You know, since two thousand seven.
Well I'm Uh yeah, I regret you're having that trouble. I know it's a it's a big concern, I'm sure it is. And uh Uh the unfortunately this board has no control over that. We don't have It's not something that we regulate. Um, but maybe somebody in the county, is there somebody in the county that can give her some advice on who to go see?
I'm going to provide Ms. Schramm with the information for building construction services so she can reach out to building construction services and see if that can be handled through their own.
They are the people that Chris came. I don't remember Chris's last name. He's one of the chief inspectors for the county. He came in five minutes to my home. That's why I'm saying this county is doing its job. He came and said this entire Downstairs is illegal. And the permit was open and never closed by the county. So it's been bought and sold three times since then. without anyone noticing this code violation until my realtor discovered
it from an appraiser that somebody had made the offer on the house when I was when I was selling it.
So did this Chris, did he offer you any suggestions?
So they're also being subpoenaed, you know, f from that level, um, for the information. Chris pretty much made my case for me. because like you said, the code A should have never been open with the with the remodel and and their plans and so they put a a bedroom and a bathroom, they changed the footprint of the um And and again, when you do anything like that, if you change the footprint of the
house, if you change the uh if you if you put uh plumbing, electricity, AC in, you must have a permit. The county closed some of those permits. They closed the AC permit. But they didn't close the building permit. They shouldn't have even had AC down there, the type of AC that is in there.
It
just means the
person who pulled the permit didn't get the final on it. They didn't get the final inspection done to
close the
permit.
In 2012, the county destroyed all of the records. And went to computer. There are no paper records on my home. So again, you know, I'm not suing the county, obviously, but Again, we you know, because you're all protected a certain amount, but it could be included in the lawsuit. And I don't want to be part of a problem. I want to be part of the solution that we can avoid this. And I think the only way we're going to avoid this
is to approach it from the County Commissioner's Office. and have them work with us. Who's in charge of You know, does the county commissioner who who approved us to go into FEMA? Is it the commissioners that joined that that recommended that we join FEMA so that we could lower the insurance cost? But I mean when we're s we're talking about county, aren't you all the rulers of the county?
So to be clear This is the planning commission.
Yes.
This is not the Board of County Commissioners. So I think a lot of what your your comments are directed probably should be directed to the Board of County Commissioners because That is the board that regulates the departments that you're talking about, whether it's the building department or code enforcement. This particular group actually has no authority over the building department or the code enforcement department. Or even the decision about whether we're part of FEMA or not.
I see. What about code enforcement?
This this this board does not
do code enforcement either.
This board makes as Mr. Gray started the meeting with what their duties are, they generally make Recommendations on new land use proposals. So somebody wants to rezone their property or change the comprehensive plan. Um or see very make decisions on variances and special exceptions and Those types of matters, but Not a The matters that you're speaking about.
And then one other issue is um and I did talk to Patty about this for this meeting, is that it code enforcement for signage Do you do code enforcement for signage?
Occasionally somebody will come and ask for a deviation from the code, which this body would hear.
Sure.
That's a case by case basis. But if you're talking about enforcement of the existing code This this board has no authority to do that.
So who would I go to for that?
Th there's a we have a county code enforcement department.
Okay, super.
And they report to Is this our assistant county administrator for development services, the county? administrator and ultimately the Board of County Commissioners.
Okay. Well thank you for your time. I appreciate it. And thank you for your help.
Thanks for coming.
No, I I wanna I wanna make a difference in this county.
One thing advice I'd give to
you
though is when you explain this to the Board of County Commissioners, you probably need to be clear when you're saying code because it that's a little bit confusing when you make that statement. There's a difference between a code enforcement action or code enforcement complaint and a building permit. And y you're kind of lumping them
No two
So it's kind of hard to understand which your when say open Something's open. I'm not sure whether you're talking about the building permit being open. The building
permit is still
or there's a active code enforcement action that's open.
There's no code action there's no action on the code violation right now.
Okay. Typically when you say code, people think code enforcement.
Mm-hmm.
So just you might want to
Well it was so much more than a little bit of a
little bit. It sounded
like you were saying there
is
an open permit, not an open code, and then maybe there was a code violation be because of the illegal structure.
There was an open permit and the
two open cases. You may have an open code violation as well as an open permit that was never closed.
I think you're not going to be able to do that. Better for you to describe that as an open building permit. As opposed to open code.
What it is is a building permit that was never closed because I think the building permit comes with conditions that it expires if you don't call for the inspections within a certain
and this has never expired either. It's still open.
Well it it it had to. It normally expires in six months. Well it's
nothing we uh unfortunately it's nothing that we can
officially advise you on, so I don't want to give you the wrong advice. Uh David is the county attorney, so he can speak
for
the right-of-way.
I wouldn't urge
her to talk to our building department.
I will
not I mean ultimately you could address the Board of County Commissioners because they do have authority over the issues that you're talking about.
Right. Well the building department is the one that helped me, you know, with the case. And they're helping me with the case. You know, in you know, in suing the owners and the and the realtors, unfortunately.
But I would go to the as as David said, I would go to the County Commissioner Oakley State your case. They're the ones that make the decision. And
we appreciate
your bringing up
the
larger
issue too.
No,
no
we're sorry.
But I appreciate
your help.
And if I may, for Ms. Schramman for the Planning Commission. Cassandra Sebastian, who is Commissioner Starkey's legislative aide, is going to assist you as you come out of the of the room. Super. Thank you. And this is and this is the information for Mr. Murphy with the building construction services. But it sounds like you have spoken to them already.
I have. And they came right away. They were just here. Like I said, this county is doing a great job.
Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thanks.
Your three minutes is up, by the way.
Okay.