PDE-267596 Denton Avenue MPUD rezoning
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The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Apr 16, 2026
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What was said
Machine transcription of 2h 21m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 75% of 541 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Yeah. Item P two is PDE 267596, zoning an amendment in the name of Denton Avenue and PUDE Master Plan Unit Development to be presented by staff.
Good afternoon, Planning Commission Members, William Vermillion, Planning Development, Economic Growth. This is PDE 267596, the Denton Avenue, MPUD.
Um some of the Planning Commission members were here for the original iteration of the project. Came in in uh 2022. Uh we're we're four years removed from that and there's been some substantial changes to the project since then. Uh a brief refresher about what the original proposal was. It was originally 1,600 dwelling units, which were forty-foot single family detached, some multi-family apartments, townhomes, and a combination of light industrial flex space. Today's proposal
is much less intense and dense as there's no longer a correspondent comprehensive plan amendment. This rezoning is consistent with the current future land use on the subject site today. Here's a location map in the northwestern portion of the county. This is a rezoning request from R2, Low Density Residential to MPD Master Planned Unit Development District for the development of 832 single-family detached units, 75,000 square feet of support commercial,
and 440,000 square feet of light industrial, and associated infrastructure on approximately 331 acres. This is approximately 1.5 miles east of the intersection of Denton Road and uh or Denton Avenue and Little Road. Here's the current subject site spanning from Denton Avenue down to uh a little bit of a tail there on Kitten Trail and then uh a a tail as you also kick eastward. The current
zoning map.
the current future land use map reflecting its current residential six future land use designation as well as the I L flu there on the the top left corner. A contextual map for the for the Planning Commission here. You can see the subject site outlined in red. And then also that that east to west bifurcating red line is the Bolton Avenue extension. This extension right now is not currently within the adopted comprehensive
plan, but a part of that 2050 update. is adding the Bolton extension onto the Vision Road network. from Little Road out to Coyote, and you can see Coyote there as that black and white dashed line. You can also see further south that black and white dashed line of a vision road, which is Hicks Road, which connects uh Kenton up to that future Bolton extension. As you move north, you have the approved Denton Place MPD,
which is largely single family product. To the north across the street, there is a school site, the county park site, which is Arthur Ingle, and an existing R4 neighborhood.
This is the current proposed master plan. You can see the uh the light industrial there in red the support commercial in purple. and the residential product type in the uh the orange tan color. We do have A binding concept plan for this proposal here. And the big thing to notice here is uh what the applicant did throughout the meetings with both staff and the the community is they put the larger lots on the
boundaries of the neighborhood, especially where you had adjoining property owners so to the south. You see that that orange color which is the largest lots, which are the seventy foot wide lots, the yellow which is sixties, and then internal you have the the fifty foot wide lots. You can see the the linear park space um whenever we went to that that aerial map and there's that weird little tail on the southern end of the property. It's actually in between two current single family detached uh homes. So what the applicant did
was turn this into a park space with a a meandering trail there in red that's ten feet wide, which connects to the sidewalks being built in Kenton Trail as a part of the CIP. those sidewalks on Kenton Trail take you to the sidewalks on Cobra way, of course to the to the school facility there on Cobra.
The the support commercial here is consistent with uh the IL future land use, which says you can have up to 15% of the upland acreage as support commercial. The current proposal of 75,000 square square feet in its associated acreage is roughly 7.8% of that that total area for industrial there within that future land use category. This project also comes with a binding landscape plan here that the Planning Commissioner and members can
see that the applicant work working with the members of the community over the last four years developed additional buffering, especially under the on that southern portion there and along Mattis Road. uh depicted here and also here with the the Florida native plant palette as the allowable species to be used.
The the regular L D C provisions would say that this project has to build Sidewalks along its linear frontage as a requirement of the code. But the applicant worked with staff in building an off-site portion of that sidewalk, which is shown in red. There's the cross a safe crossing area there demarcated by that hatched rectangle, the dotted line rectangle there. which allows uh pedestrians from
this development as well as citizens that live on Kitten Trail that can access this project through the linear park site. um to the sidewalk that would be constructed in blue, taking you to the off-site segment in red, which is creditable against the bike pad credits of the impact fees.
There's two variation analysis that come with this proposal here. The first from 9016 D11, street design and dedication requirements, continuation of existing street patterns. That's that southern vehicular connection to Kitten Trail. In lieu of that connection there's a pedestrian connection through the linear park. And from L D C section eight oh five six restrictions on post uh development. Wetlands and upland buffers, this is for non residential parcels under single ownership. to
maintain their common space and not have to establish a C D D H O A P O A or likewise.
This comes to you with a recommendation to approve to recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners with conditions. I'm available for any questions.
Did you say the existing zoning was R2?
I I misspoke it was A C. I actually showed it on the map and it reflected A C. I don't know why I misspoke there are two. So A C
the future land use is I L and Res six?
Yes, sir.
Any idea how that came to be. I mean it's in a sea of it's it's like it sticks out like a sore thumb. It's in a sea of res three. And public semi public. I understand the public semi public with the county wastewater facility next door, but Just trying to figure out how did we get Res six plopped in the middle of a Res three.
I don't have any knowledge off the top of my head, but I I can certainly look around to see if there were any comprehensive plan amendments um to get it to res six and I.
Okay, that'd be helpful.
The southern uh pedestrian connection through to Kitten Trail, is there a proposal there to also have emergency vehicular access?
No, sir. Just the linear park and pedestrian connection. Both functional access is required by the code for this amount of ERUs or both to Denton Avenue. They have two functional access to Denton Avenue on the north side, as well as the east-west connection that would be made with the extension of Bolton. The applicant is dedicating right away and constructing um Bolton is needed for its site access and then barricading. Uh Bolton there on the uh on the ends to prevent travel to Mattis until such time as
the road is punched through to Coyote pursuant to the New Vision Road Network or until Mattis is brought up to County Standards.
Yeah, I understand. It's it's probably gonna be a little while before that gets built though, so That's what I was wondering just from functionality standpoint for emergency access. You know, understand there is two two accesses to Denton, but
And uh Terry just gave me clarification the future land use has been there since two thousand and six, both the IL and the RES six.
So it's not an original, it was amended at some point. Yes, sir.
Anything else for well? Yeah.
Well. Thank you.
Barbara Well Height, 63, 27, Grand Boulevard for the applicant.
Went through uh I think s um William went through the applications as they existed in twenty twenty two when you would have seen this before whoever was here in twenty twenty two because this comprehensive plan amendment did come before you all. Um And then the MPD application. Got the entitlements that were requested at that time, the lot sizes, the type of product. the non-residential and there was vehicle access to and from Kitten Trail at that time on our plans.
Our current application has changed. Not only has the year changed from 2022 to 2026, four years later. And by the way, that was a there was a pause. As you saw in your packet in twenty twenty two There was a hundred and fourteen pages of objections. It's a lot. So we stopped, we paused the project, and we put the project back together, a different project. We withdrew the comprehensive plan amendment and followed the comprehensive plan that the county had put in place on the property.
We changed from the 1,462 single-family homes and apartments and town homes to the 832 single-family detached homes. They're all just single-family detached homes now. 60 and 70 foot lots along the perimeter, no forties, no apartments, no townhomes, 2.5 units per acre, so it's not anywhere near six.
As we mentioned the current Land use designations on the property allow a maximum of fourteen hundred and sixty-two homes. We have enhanced landscape and buffering plans, which you'll hear more about. We're non residential is right in line with what the county's IL land use designation um dictates. No emergency vehicular emergency access to or from Kitten Trail. That's with working with the neighbors and and their requests and concerns and if you've looked at the hundred and fourteen pages of of comments, that was a common
comment. that was received at that time. Passive park on that property. We worked all the details of that park and we'll go over some of those details as we worked with the neighbors. And as Will had mentioned, the county does have a fully funded under-construction sidewalk project. It starts a little bit east of our project and then it runs west to the schools and ultimately to Hicks. And it runs back, which I don't know if you caught what Will said, is not only are people gonna go that way to s
to school But people from school can come through this project and get up through our project and safely to the park, which they don't have that safe passage now. And we added on my client's dime an enhanced one of the the lights where you hit the light and then people can travel across um Denton so they can get across Denton. And then as you saw what uh Will had mentioned about we'll go over what we're doing regarding the sidewalks in the area to make the passage even safer, not only for our product. The folks
from our project, the kids from our project, but also anybody from Kit and Trail and there's some folks from the east that the sidewalk is important to as well. We'll get on some of those details.
We held four neighborhood meetings. Pursuant to the code, neighborhood meetings are not required, but we held four of them in 2025. We did three of them fairly successive, 7-6, July 6th, July 23rd, and August 6th. And then you'll see there's a gap. And we did a fourth one. We promised the neighbors at our third meeting that we would come back and and show them the changes and answer questions. that we weren't able to answer at the first three meetings.
Something I haven't seen clients do before. They and during this pause in between August and December of last year The client engaged WRA, Joe Simoneau is here, he's our project engineer to do a grading plan. And what that did for the project was allow the project to look closer at drainage and flooding and floodplain compensation in light of the questions that were asked at our first three meetings about those issues. It allowed for a specific binding landscape plan to be created and presented at the fourth neighborhood meeting. And
it it specifically allowed having a having a grading plan allowed the client to be able to determine where they could save existing vegetation, because that's always the question you get. Behind my house, what happens to the trees? And so we were able to answer that question by doing the grading plan. Usually you'll get up here and everybody will say it's two. early, we haven't done any site planning. We don't know what our grading's gonna be. We can't tell you we can save anything. We did the work so we could do the plan so we can save.
It allowed us to have one-on-one meetings, my client Robert Melson did those, one-on-one meetings with homeowners to walk in their backyards and talk about the existing vegetation and the buffering behind their homes and what was being proposed. What's interesting when you talk go to these these meet neighborhood meetings, the neighbors are like, what are you gonna plant? We don't want anything cookie cutter like you see in other parts of the county. We want Landscaping that looks like our landscaping. native vegetation. So not only
enhanced lay but enhanced landscaping where our we could where existing vegetation didn't have the opacity. So we were going to supplement existing vegetation, we're saving existing vegetation, we're going to supplement it, but we also looked at the type of landscaping so that we could get something that just looked more like the area as opposed to when you see the cookie cutter that goes in. So that was done as well. The passive park only, that was discussed with the neighbors, especially on the two sides of that parcel. They really
wanted to see no active recreation there, no playground, no community pool, no sports courts, no sports fields. We have other areas in the community that we can do that. And we will put in a man during hiking and biking trail. No vehicular access to and from kitten, including no emergency access. Again, that was something that was requested. We can meet the codes. coming off of Denton, the code's very specific as to what you have to do for functional access and emergency access and we'll meet those requirements.
What was the objection to the emergency access? 'Cause it's just never used or very rarely.
Just don't want any connectivity to kit and trail. So um Changes made the 70 foot lots along the kitten trails, or that was a change made as a result of those of those meetings. Another meet another uh thing the the client agreed to was single family homes only along the perimeter.
This is this landscape plan and um But my page caught up here. A lot of thought a lot of detail went into this. Not just it's a landscape plan that was based upon a grading plan and based upon picking out species and really came up with something very special. If you go to the commissioners' offices you'll see this on the wall, 'cause they like it. Um
All native species are what we're talking about planting. Even the even the care here as to what, you know, so that you could answer the question or Robert could answer the question when he was meeting with neighbors, you know, what's what are things gonna look like?
If you can see the details on this park, you'll see that there's a commitment that the existing trees will remain within this passive park area. That was important to the neighbors. Can we keep the trees? So we're going to meander the 10-foot path through those trees. And you see that noted on our binding plan.
Well after we worked with the neighbors we got to continue to work with staff. And of course we made our plans binding because we don't show something that you're not going to actually do. We have the enhanced Denton Avenue Pike Pedestrian Crossing, which will allow folks going to the park, whether it be our residents or other people in the community, to get across Denton safely. Eventually we think, based upon our initial traffic analysis, that probably our entrance, our spine roll will be signalized at some point when it meets warrants. But we wanted to make sure we didn't wait to that point
to get people safely across. So we're going to have an interim condition until it's signalized, if it's ever signalized. to get uh safe passage. As William has explained, we made sure we have a ten foot multi-use path to kitten. and conditions that go along with that. So not only can we get down to kitten, but everybody else can come up. come up from Kitten through our project. And we'll show you the the slide here that deals with the off site um sidewalk to Arthur Engel Park. So what's interesting about this is that it
it provides a missing segment. So if you're out there now, if you want to walk to walk to the park, you're walking in the Grass dirt. So now you have passage that you can come up our sidewalks across
And then now walk on the sidewalks which is actually ten foot wide path. all the way along to the park. We didn't stop at the entrance to the park The county said. Look at where the existing sidewalk stops for the folks in the Summer Chase Subdivision. They c go along the sidewalk right now, coming into the east. You can see it right here at this project right on the east there's a Suddivision on the east. Right now they walk up along their sidewalk along their frontage and then they walk in the dirt slash grass to get to the park. Staff said let's continue
this down. So now we're gonna have They can also get to the park and down through our project into school on sidewalks. So we're just trying to fill in, you know, fill in and do things to really try to make things work better in the existing areas. And with that, I do have my team with me. We have Joe Simono, Project Engineer, Mike Razor, Razor Transportation, and Robert Melson, Project Representative.
Thank you. Are there any uh questions from Happened.
If I can do a couple two things for housekeeping because I'll forget once we get rolling on public comment and responding. Um we did do a consistency analysis with the land development code and the comprehensive plan. It was provided electronically and I understand that it was provided to the clerk's office if we can have a motion to receive and file that into the record.
I hear a motion. So moved. Second. Yeah second. All in favor? Aye.
And the same with my PowerPoint that's been provi provided electronically as well.
Second motion.
So moved. Second.
Thank you.
All right. Is there anybody here that'd like to speak
on this? Mr. Chair, the first individual pre-registered to speak on this item is Mr. Ken Howard.
Howard, get your full name and your address, please.
Ken Howard, my address [address removed]. Now we l talked to the developer, he come to Silver House and landowners around and talked about his plan and so forth. We talked about what is usual and customary for Pasco County, all of our Bordering properties, thirty two of which are uh Two plus acres of thirty-two residents. Twenty-nine of them are two plus acres. And
three of them are nine tenths of an acre. Uh the size of the lot that he has proposed meets nothing that was usual to what we live in the area. You've turned down two other developers in early 2000, uh between 2000 and 2005. One of them, Coyote Acres, told him he couldn't build two houses per acre. It didn't fit was usual for the neighborhood. Were
Mr Mauer's property on the corner of Kitten and Coyote. You turned him down before mister Mauer bought that. He wanted to put three mobile homes per acre. It said it was not usual to the area. So here we are now, your man is telling you're talking two and a half houses per acre. You shouldn't be allowed if you did not allow no one else. Acreage is the key for our area, and I think you should be developing on acreage. We
talked about Bolton Avenue. He has built. His plan to build a road to meet with Bolton Avenue. Bolton Avenue ends at Pasco County Properties, which is the water um reclamation property. We're gonna go Nobody cared about Bolton Avenue residents for decades. They've asked to repair their roads and nobody's done it. Nobody Cared a
bit about it. Now you're talking about using their street for access for his property going through water management property. I don't see why with this plan in mind wasn't the Bolton County, uh Bolton Avenue residents notified what their plan is ahead of time so they could be here. No one on Bolton Heaven even knows of this development being built. I was there yesterday myself talking to him. And
as far as the traffic goes You have Sage Bus Lane going in with 400 plus homes. Here you're going to have 800 plus homes. Denton Avenue definitely will not handle that traffic. We see it every day. We live in the area. You're talking an industrial park with semi-heavy trucks. And only one entrance and the exit to the area. Lie. Developer sat on my carport one day
while we was talking about the property. And his industrial park. How it would be fit. You
still have a minute left, sir.
How would be fitting, he said, for an industrial park to be a um data processing center. It'd be nice for his area. Without restrictions on this industrial park, we do not want a data processing area. By history, 100% of the time, local residents' electricity bills have increased 100% because of the amount of use of electricity. The amount of water that's needed for a data processing center is enormous.
In an area that's constantly every year water restrictions, because we don't have the water that we need in the area, and we keep adding and keep adding to this usage. I think this should be turned down. If he goes with an industrial park, I think there ought to be restrictions on his industrial park, what can be allowed. And there's nothing Said or anything about it.
Thank you. Okay, thank you. Sir. So so I I hear the rest of your concerns. Um can I get your since you live on Kitten Trail, can I get your opinion on uh emergency vehicular access that would be only open to fire and
Well let me tell you about a fire we had on Kitten Trail about two years ago, three years ago, across the street next to the horse ranch that's across my street from my house. We called it in early in the morning I came home from the dump. We called it in early in the morning I seen the smoke bellowing from an old abandoned trailer. And We called 911 right away, the neighbor across the street that runs the horse ranch. We sat there for 35 minutes before we ever seen a fire engine show up. The
smoke bellowed it was Obviously there was somebody there that that put out the fire before fire rescue got there. But there's the time that would for them to Come to our area, it it's ridiculous. Two weeks ago we had an accident. Right in front of my house, a car rolled over, took out my mailbox, Crossed the street, rolled over into the field at the horse ranch, landed upside down underneath a tree. It was at least twenty minutes before fire
rescue got there. We don't have adequate fire rescue response. Not at all.
So and that kinda goes to my my point is to into providing question. Yeah, my question was y whether
Actually. He's talking about the entrance I get to.
So there's there's a piece of the project that cuts through to Kitten Trail where they have a park uh uh a pedestrian path. But the some of the residents have said that, you know, obvious I can understand not wanting regular vehicle vehicular traffic, but Some of the residents also stated that they didn't want emergency access there either, which would only be open to police and fire. So I just wondered where that objection was coming from.
You gotta start to think about what people are gonna use it for. I mean you you're gonna tell people it's only for emergency exit or so forth, you know.
Well it would be it would be gated w where they would only have the be the only ones that would have access to it. Yeah.
It would be nice, I mean, 'cause you're not gonna have the amount of access to the property that he it's gonna be congested constantly. That's my concern. But the the point is is it gonna be used for kids crossing and so forth and and you know they're gonna use the park. You got kids down by the park now at Veterans Park, they're crossing everybody's properties to get to the park. You know, it it's aggravating for the the local landowners and
Yeah the existing proposal already has the pedestrian connection, but that's that's why I wanted to hear your uh what your take was on having an emergency vehicle connection there that was only reserved for emergency
If it don't get abused I wouldn't be opposed to it, but you know how things get abused.
Can we get an aerial photograph up there?
I'm sorry.
I'm asking the staff if they'll put an aerial photograph up there 'cause I'd like to ask you if you can point out where you live in relation to this property.
You said you lived on Kitten Trail.
Yes sir. Where that point that the property touches it c connects with Kitten Trail, um the second lot to the left of it.
Second property.
Okay. Two
and a half acres.
So you back right up to it?
Yes sir.
Any other questions?
Okay, thank you, sir.
Next.
Mr. Chair, the next individual signed up is one Ms. Tracy Lowe. Right.
Will you get your name and address, please?
Yes, my name is Tracy Lowe. I reside at [address removed].
You've been sworn?
I've been sworn, yes, sir. I'm here today to emphasize the importance to keeping all external connections off of and away from kitten trail. as submitted by New Strategies Holdings. Our current infrastructure is presently failing and was built for AR and AC zoning, not high density developments. I would like to respectfully remind this Planning Commission of three things. One of the drone footage emailed to you this past Tuesday, and to the County Commissioner on September 19, 2022, illustrating the highly
dangerous traffic congestion at the school's entrance and exit on Kitten Trail. Two, the tragic death of Miles Farango, the fifteen year old student, who was hit and killed on kitten trail simply riding his bike to school. and three, the timing and phasing analysis completed in twenty twenty one for the same project identifying roadway failure at the intersection of Hicks and Kitten. If we need another access, Bolton Avenue is a more logical choice for an external
access connection than Kenton Trail. Bolton will be a direct connector to both Little and US nineteen, kiting dead ends into two different roads. The Commission and the County are aware of the safety and traffic concerns of Kitten Trail, as illustrated by Installation of streetlights, school zones, and upcoming construction of sidewalks. However, this does not address the influx of traffic. The inherent dangers of this traffic and the safety to both our residents of Kitten Trails 122 adjacent rural properties
and its three schools. I would also like to emphasize that this MPUD violates Land Clode 522.2 blending of densities and 522.4 developmental standards. Lot sizes of 50, 60, and 70 feet wide with 10-foot setbacks and 15-foot butters buffers of immature landscaping are not compatible with the 32 adjacent homes ranging from 0.92 to 40 acres or the surrounding area that consists of hundreds of homes.
Yeah. I ask this commission to consider how does four to six homes 35 feet away from a multi-acre rural property preserve the integrity of our rural community. Now imagine multiplying that 31 properties bordering this development. How is this compatible with the surrounding area's use? How does this preserve the integrity of our rural community? It simply does not and it's simply not compatible. I would also like
to emphasize the need of an enhanced crosswalk for this proposed 10 foot meandering trail accessing kitten trail. With the construction of the new sidewalk by the county on the opposite side of Kitten Trail, students and pedestrians will need the cross kitten to access the sidewalk. This crosswalk will be needed to ensure pedestrian safety. Thank you for your consideration.
Can I ask you a question? Could you repeat the code citations you said that were problematic?
Five two two point four and five two two point two.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Right, we don't know.
Mr Chair, the next individual is one Mr Tim Lowe.
Okay.
Tim Lowe, I reside at [address removed]. We've been there about 26 years now, and we love our rural community. My main two concerns with this development are traffic and safety, as we have just recently pointed out from some of the other community members. Kitten Trail is pretty close to a racetrack right now. It doesn't currently support all the traffic needs. So we are highly against any access to Kitten Trail, even emergency
access. There was a project called Palm Wind, as recent as last year, where Commissioner Starkey had required that the emergency access point now become vehicular use for that neighborhood. So that's what we want to prevent to happen on kitten trail because it just can't support it. It is a dead end road at either end. It's less than two miles long. So we are strongly against that again because it doesn't support it. And the sidewalk that's being proposed to be built on Kitten
Trail is on the south side of the road. So we need some sort of safe access if this project does go through for the pedestrians and more importantly the children to cross kitten kitten trail. The other major concern, again, that's that's been voiced by many is the compatibility. We've got a very large tract of land. It's beautiful. And I do commend the developer. They've made a lot of improvements since the start of this. But we're still looking at 300 acres. That's going to have over 800 homes,
over a half million square feet of commercial and industrial. One thing that the studies don't show and haven't been talked about is the traffic that's going to come from the commercial and industrial side of this. They're going to have multiple deliveries, multiple employees, multiple trips, excuse me, to those businesses, you know, throughout the day, more so than a single family home. So we want to make sure you consider that. And just the shear density, as mentioned.
We've got parcels on the perimeter, all three sides that are anywhere from two acres to ten acres. And now we're talking about an 8,000 square foot lot. That's the largest lot. You can fit 54 of those on one of those 10-acre parcels. To give you a little perspective of the incompatibility that we're dealing with. This project isn't coming in next to another larger project, right? And we just have a couple estate or landowners that are opposing it. When
you zoom out. a few more times you can still recognize that parcel from a from a a vast distance there because it's it sticks out like a sore thumb, like like mentioned, and uh is not compatible. So I'd like you to consider to um deny this project on those points. Thank you for your time.
The next individual is one Miss Cindy Hennock.
Hello, my name is Cindy Hennick and I reside at [address removed]. I live off of Danton. Denton is already a racetrack. And I mean I walk it every day to the park. Just just uh it's wonderful to go to the park and everything, but there are s there is so much traffic. They're already building what three or four hundred units down on the right side on my side of the street, farther closer to Littleton. And now you want to put in eight hundred and thirty-two
homes on the left side of the street. Denton can't handle that. It's a two lane street. There's just no way. And um І чис, іс із гуна destroy the beauty. and everything to the to the area that all these people are living in. So that's all I want to say. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for coming.
The next individual is one, Mr. John Hennick.
Hi. John Hennick, I reside at [address removed]. Yeah. That was my wife as well. I think she missed out the opportunity there on the water. I mean there's always a water issue in Pasco County. We're already on restrictions. I I know there must have been some kind of study or research on that. But um that's a consideration 'cause I oppose this as well. The second thing is the is the uh traffic on denting. I mean there's it's all gonna be funneled on Denton. There's only three east to west
major arteries, Hudson, Denton and then commercial up in Spring Hill. All of that traffic, I mean, it's going down there to the dump, you know, the county dump, we already have an extreme amount of traffic on there. It's a race rack. People are getting hit on there every day. rollovers right in front of our development. There's no there's no stop sights, there's no street lights. Uh it's a racetrack. So Take that into consideration. I oppose uh this development.
Thank you. Thank you.
The next individual is one Miss Sue Bolton.
My name is Sue Wolton. I live at [address removed]. I've been there for a little over 30 years. I have several concerns. One, flooding. My property is very low. When it rains, when we have big rains, the s my side yard fills up. Uh it looks like I have Lakeville property. It's been a joke some with some of my friends. Um I'm very low there. I am
Two houses for line second house from Dennis Drive, which backs up to it. Um Another problem that I find is the traffic. Kitten trail is unbelievable. Um I have stuff in my front yard all the time because of people traveling to the dump and them it falling off of their trucks or their trailers. My another concern I have is the schools. We had one meeting where
it was questioned what are they gonna what are the schools gonna do about the kids that would move into this development and the comment was that's their problem. I worked for the schools for over twenty years. I drove school bus for most of that, ten of it, the last of it while I was a supervisor. And we have a terrible time getting drivers. and we have to
go out and figure out where these kids can be safe walking to a bus stop. And Yes, those are my concerns. Thank you for your time. Okay, thank you very much.
So she brought up another concern I had as well um about these schools. Uh well I was gonna ask Liam maybe if you m you may have some information on this. Because I understand in the application uh it looks like uh Hudson Primary Academy with the projected enrollment with this project would go from eighty six percent of capacity to a hundred twelve percent of capacity. So it looks like uh Hudson Academy and Hudson High are still gonna be within capacity with
this development, but we'd be over capacity on the elementary school. So do you have any thoughts on that or so So yes,
you do have to keep in mind that there are other school options that people take advantage these days. So not necessarily that all of those kids would be going to that school. Um that's something we monitor regularly. Um there's definitely space at those campuses. So if Expansion needs to happen, that's something we could take a look at. Um But we do monitor that very closely.
Yeah, 'cause so it looks like all three of 'em are only at about eighty between eighty one and eighty six percent capacity at the moment. So
All right. Thank you, Liam. Thank you.
Thank you very much for coming. Who's next? The next individual is one, Mr. Jeff McLean.
How are you doing? My name is uh Jeff McLeod. Um I live at [address removed]. Um I oppose this mainly because of the acreage part of it. I got four acres out there When I first bought the property 30 years ago. It was because of the horses and all the farms and everything. And now you want to stick three or four homes in one. piece of proper or one acre. And it's just not right. But it's also the schooling No just
like she said. You got enough room for all these people and the traffic. The traffic is just horrendous. I mean, you know. You can put speed signs up, but it don't work. And uh so I do oppose this uh Resoning so Thank you.
The next individual is one Miss Sherry Howard.
Good afternoon. My name is Sherry Howard. I live at [address removed].
So first of all, I'm just gonna say I agree with everything that everyone has said. I oppose this vehemently. Um Mostly the lot sizes. I would love to see larger lots, acreage lots actually. And it's talking about the kitten trail. Even with the sidewalks, Kitten Trail scares me. We have cars rolling through our ditch. We have cars rolling down the road. Tr cars and trucks. It's crazy. I get
past on Kitten Trail pretty much every day that I come home. Because I'm doing a big on it. even in the school zone. It's a extremely dangerous road and I've been on Denton Road. And they're just as crazy back there. I think it's the same drivers. Anyway. Um
Water. It seems like we go into a drought s earlier every single year. I don't we'll I don't know where our water comes from. And you'll you'll just keep approving more and more large lots like this, developments like this. It's it's ex extremely scary. And Bolton Avenue.
My husband spoke about the residents on Bolton. So I appreciate them closing off Kitten Trail. The cars won't be coming out that way. But I think it's extremely unfair to the residents of Bolton. to make them pay the price.
Thank you.
The next individual is one Miss Deborah Kosh.
Hi, my name's Deborah Kosh. I live at [address removed]. Our house is directly the other side of the walkthrough park area. Um We originally chose to live on Kenton Trail for the acreage. We love the quiet. The agriculture I agree with all what all the other neighbors have said. and greatly oppose this. We're concerned about
water. We're concerned about the traffic. And also the sidewalks if they do go through and approve that there would need to be a sidewalk on the side of where the park is to keep everything safe.
And that's it.
That's it.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much.
The next individual is one Oari Lar.
Hi, I am the mother of Deborah Laura and Bonnie Coch. And They chose this piece of land because they thought it was country, as most all of these people did. now everything is gonna be taken away from them. There's gonna be busier roads. There's gonna be a huge subdivision in there. The water Forget that. There is not
enough water to go around. And I just I have so much concern for these people. I really do. It's it's not gonna work. Just because of the money? It's not gonna work. That's it. Thank you.
Can we get your can you state for the record? Can you state your name and address for the record? My name is on there. I can you just say it's for the clerk's office needs it.
Oh my actual address is [address removed]. And we also have a lack of water.
And your name, ma'am?
My name is Hilary Lauer. L-A-U-E-R.
The next individual signed up to speak is Miss Deborah Rogers.
Yeah yeah.
Good afternoon. My name is Deborah Rogers. I live at [address removed]. And as everyone else has sta has stated, I have a l lot of concerns. I have concerns especially with the traffic. My home is almost parallel or in front of The school and the traffic that comes out of there is ridiculous. I've been here since twenty-two, so only four years, and in the four years that I have been here,
the traffic has multiplied unbelievably. Uh because of unfortunately that young gentleman losing his life, they put up the uh caution lights, which are not even being adhered to as it is with the traffic that comes through there. And if we have additional traffic coming in, then it's even gonna be worse. As far as the um schools are concerned, I know that you said something to the effect of only eighty six percent,
but you also have other developments going in that are also gonna be affecting these schools. And with that and with these homes coming in again, we could potentially have even more traffic with younger children driving to and from school or their parents taking them, which is what happens a lot, which I see throughout the Pasco County as it is. Again, like I said, I don't originally come from here, but I do see that a lot of parents don't even use the uh bus transport.
They actually take them which just multiplies the amount of traffic that's on there. I myself have almost gotten hit multiple times, just even trying to go into my yacht with my directional on from people passing. They think that it is a straight raceway, and I am surprised that more people have not unfortunately got either got into an accident or lost their lives. Um My other concern also would be the um the
water situation as well, because I know that we get bans on water and you have again all these multiple um developments coming in and they are I'm assuming are definitely going to be taken from our uh water sources. We moved out here also as a lot of other people did because we wanted the acreage. you know, we have animals. I originally come from a larger acreage farm and I wanted to come out and be in the country again.
And now you're opening it up to have like three houses on one acre lot. Everybody on Kitten Trail moved to Kitten Trail because they wanted the acreage. They wanted the country living and now you you're proposing that this development is gonna come in and take that away from us. Um Again, I just I am opposing just as well as everyone else speaking prior to me. Um I really do not want this
development going in. Thank you very much.
Yeah.
The next individual is one Mr. David Rogers.
Good afternoon. My name is David Rogers. I live on [address removed]. And pretty much what everybody said I agree with that too, but the two main things is Which my wife just mentioned was the traffic. We live with it that late and it gets worse and worse by the week. speeding and if you have you guys put that sidewalk in with the kids on 'em.
It's not gonna work out well. There's gonna be accidents out there. It really is. The war is not gonna be a good thing neither and to touch on the rural section that we lived on ten acres back in Rhode Island. Yeah we What there's property because of the royal and have any animals. And having that in our backyard is It's like you got a zoning for a reason. It's almost like you can spin a wand and change the zoning at any given time to make these big developments come. I don't think it's it's right to Where
we are and uh to change the zonings like that. I just don't understand how that can happen, so I am against this very much. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next individual is Wendell McGregor.
The next individual would be Jim Laddle.
And then moving to Pam Jackson.
Good afternoon. My name is Pam Jackson. I live at [address removed]. It's just north of this development. Uh my husband and I have lived there for thirty five years and we moved to Pasco because it is a nice rural community. The tagline is open spaces and vibrant places and we feel like this is changing the whole Community. Um I'm a realtor and a broker
and I'm and I understand development. I feel like there are cycles that happen in real estate and there was a huge demand because of COVID. The developers came to meet the demand, but there are so many developments that have already been planned and put into place that I feel like this is an additional and over-development now. And we're gonna end up like the car wire. Yeah. Everybody's come in and done these things that there was a need for, but there's a limit to where it needs to go. And
I feel like we've met that limit. And again, water shortages, how are these people gonna end up With w with any kind of water, I'm on a well and I'm very concerned that my water supply is gonna run out because of these new developments that are going in. There's all kinds if you go down Hudson Avenue there's new developments. If you go down Little Road there's all kinds of developments. We need to leave some of Pasco as rural Pasco and I really feel like thank you. I
really feel like it's time to say no. Um also where I live in the Highlands, there is a d subdivision that was put up right in front of our of our subdivision. We're in two and a half to five acre parcels. There was an agreement that there was going to be a 20-foot buffer between our development and the new development. They went in there and they mowed everything down. It's gone now. That was a binding contract that they were supposed to leave that twenty-four uh the twenty-foot buffer and not touch those trees. And the the
developer went in and mowed everything down. They had to stop and they probably got fined. But they did it anyhow and I appreciate that this developer sounds like he's being Um responsible and and the binding agreement sounds wonderful, but it doesn't happen sometimes. And once that's gone, it's gone. These trees and the the animals have no place to live. I know that's not something anybody cares about anymore, but I would really appreciate it if you would consider keeping Pasco rural. That's why we
moved here. That's why we love this area. Thank you for your time.
Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes.
Thank you.
Hurt? The next individual is one Lisa Bicarius.
Good afternoon. My name is Lisa Bacaris and I live at [address removed]. Um I have a little bit of different perspective on commenting today. So I want to start by saying that I am standing here today out of profound respect. for this board and the weight of the decisions you all have to make. However, because I respect the process, I feel I owe you and my neighbors
the absolute unvarnished truth about how this project will impact our lives. I'm here today because there is a massive disconnect between the people sitting in these chairs and the people standing here at this podium. Those who represent us. We look at the land and see a vital piece of Florida's soul. a habitat for wildlife and a buffer for our rural way of life. But it seems some of
you look at this land and see nothing but a postage stamp on a map. ready to be sold to the highest bidder. In comparison to all this massive development going on in our county, it is a postage stamp. But let's be honest, this isn't just one subdivision. This is the start of a forced transformation. You are trying to turn our agricultural peaceful areas into many cities. Every
day we see the progress of your previous decisions. We see it in the mounting traffic on our roadways, and we see it in the carcasses of wildlife strewed across our roads because they have nowhere left to go. Their blood is the price of this growth. We, the people here, elected you to be our voices. Not a rubber stamp for these developers who don't live here and don't care about the quality of life that
we are paving over. When the people you represent shout No in unison, and you still lean towards yes, we have to ask. Who are you actually working for? Is your priority the long term health of Pasco County, or is it the short term greed of those who want to turn our woods into concrete? Winning this fight for this project shouldn't be a battle. It should be our duty. We didn't
vote for you to help destroy Florida. We voted for you to save it. This board has a choice today. You could be the leaders who finally draw the line in the sand and protect what's left of our true Florida homes. Or you could be the ones who hand the keys over to the bulldozers. We are watching, we are waiting, and we are asking you to finally put the citizens above the speculators to deny this request of the Debton project. Thank you for your time.
The next individual I believe is Summer this.
Who is it? I believe it's to murder this. Not all of these are as legible as others.
Oh, okay.
Hopefully this is the right person.
Hello. Good afternoon. My name is Tamara DC. Tamara rhymes with Tamra. DC, like AC DC.
I live at [address removed]. I've lived on Mattis Road since 1992. And I've grown to love the open spaces. And that's disappearing, as my all my neighbors can contest. I I agree with all their sentiments today. And that last presentation was quite um well written and well presented. And um I think it represents our opinions
about the growing development in Pasco County. Now, I love the peace and quiet out there and that's changing as more and more traffic comes along Denton Avenue, which is hard to pull out to now from Mattis Road. takes much longer to pull out into Denton Avenue because there is so much more traffic. Um also that In addition to the peace and quiet, we have gunshot noises. out there because a lot of people own firearms. And they're
allowed to do that because it's our amendment first amendment right to have or second amendment to have firearms. So I'm afraid that might go away when the neighbors, the new neighbors the five hundred and thirty two homes, eight hundred thirty two homes start complaining about the gunshots because I can hear them all the way across the Mattis Ranch. It used to be the Mattis Ranch, all the way o from Dennis Drive. So a lot of my neighbors have Sheeting ranges in their backyards.
I have ten. My children have ten next to me, so we all have quite a bit of acreage. So those are things, you know, I know the flavor is gonna be gone once they start building all the homes. And I appreciate Um what this newer developer has done to make changes according to the neighborhood meetings. I mean, I really do appreciate the changes they've made and taken into consideration. But at the same time I still have to say that I oppose it because um at the density
primarily also. I mean I just built another home six hundred feet back off of the road because I knew Development was coming. and it was considerable expense and I really had to fight the county to stay on my own property to build another home on my own property and then remove the first home from my own property. in order to to live on my A C zone property. And now, you know, there's gonna be three houses per acre across the street. So it's a little hard to swallow sometimes. But um basically I guess You
know, in addition to the traffic, the noise Just the the change in the in the rural nature of the area. Um I guess that the other part that's hard to see are the trees coming down. Of course they've already come down mostly on that property. I I lived there when it was all trees, just about But um most of the trees have come down but everywhere you look, like one of the other ladies was saying is uh you drive down Hudson Avenue and what used to be woods is gone because there's a new development going in. So they
are popping up all over in West Pasco. And um I just hope that you will not And in in the words of someone very wise said, please don't Pinelis my Pasco.
Yeah.
Excuse, can
you come back one second? I had a question to ask you.
Do you have any interest in or objection to paving Mattis Road?
I know some of my neighbors want it paved because they have a business at the end of the road, And um it does tear up the the vehicles, but I'm also wondering how the traffic, I mean it already flies people already fly down that road. I think you should be going twenty five or thirty. I have actually been passed on my own road, Mattis Road. So I think it will be better for the vehicles. I won't have to ha probably go to the car wash three times a week. But um I wonder how
you will keep the traffic from go flying down to the end of the street to you know, a lot of people go into Kitty Up and I know that they would like to have the road paved and I understand if the Bolton comes out to Mattis Road, then I'm guessing the county would pave it, but from what I was reading last night it sounded like the developer would have no Um They wouldn't be paying for that. I'm guessing we would as the owners along Mattis or who would be paying for those improvements, although it's a county maintained
road. Who would be paying for that?
I think you just answered my next question. So yes, it is a county maintained roadway. Okay. And I don't know. Right now there's no proposal to pave it, but there's some discussion about that. So that's I wanted to get your opinion on.
Yeah, I'm not too keen on Bolton, you know, ending right there at Mattis Road and I'm sure the neighbors that are right across from where that Dead end is probably they don't like it. And I'm wondering how you take the property next to it to go all the way to Coyote. Is there like a em eminent domain or how how does that happen? Um because I'm sure someone must only think about it.
So it would be at the edge of a property, but there would still be some relinquishment.
Coyote then I totally understand you know, but um so I understand that it's gonna be paved someday and it'll be nice easier on the cars, but I wonder how fast people will drive down 'cause they already drive too fast on a dirt road. As it is. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next individual is one Miss Susan Steffi.
I'm Susan Steffi. I live at [address removed]. And basically everything these people said is true. Um This development will destroy our community as we know it. It's peaceful forty years ago. I had a four bedroom, two bath, two car, two-car garage home. in a gated community with a pole, tennis courts. Um I traded my home. for a mobile home on some land
out on Kitten Trail. Because the peace, uh, the freedom, you can't describe it unless living in a development versus the freedom and the beauty that you have out there. It's like National Geographic. We had horses, there was wildlife, uh You've got your freedoms and this is taking away our freedom. This is gonna destroy our community. It's gonna destroy the walla We can't handle what they wanna put in there. if
uh they want to be
more concerned about the community. um maybe put it on two or three acres, a home. This kind of thing to blend. But what they're gonna do now is gonna destroy it. We can't handle it. And pretty much everything everybody said is true and I'm totally against it. Not unless they take the considerations of the community and the beauty that's out there. They're gonna destroy what's there now. It's this isn't the nature coast anymore.
Everywhere you go, I mean the traffic is awful in front of my place. And I work in a group home with disabled people on a haze by Oakwood. and the traffic coming from the developments they're putting in there, it's a cut through. Everything from Shady Hills that they're tearing up and building. Everything from fifty two and haze that they're building, it's a cut through. So everybody cuts through haze, they cut down oakwood, they cut down kitten trail, they cut down den. And the traffic is awful now. You put this in, you're gonna destroy
this community. Or you're gonna ride your horse on the sidewalk. You really gonna try to put a a walkway across uh kitten trail or den? People get hit now. you ca you're gonna destroy the whole beauty of what we have now and it's a cut through the traffic is bad. You're gonna have to widen the roads, you're gonna have to have more cops, you're gonna have I mean, it's gonna be a mess. So I'm against it unless they try to uh Make it more conducive
with the way we live. And have more acreage, one home for three acres, like everybody else. It's it's a matter of greed. That's what it is. They don't care. So I mean they can put up flowers in little parks or whatever they say they're gonna do. It ain't happening. What's the lie? Sixty feet, seventy feet? That's nothing. So they're gonna destroy our community pretty much. And uh I think they should change their plans if they're gonna obviously they're
gonna do something with the property, but they should change the plans. Make it more conducive to the way we live out there. And that's pretty much what I have to say. Everybody else covered it pretty good. With the traffic is bad, people are gonna get killed. Kids are gonna get killed. You can't cross the road with a walkway. or even a sidewalk where you can ride your horse. There's two big horse ranches on Kitten Trail.
Okay, your we your time has expired.
Thank you so much.
The next individual is one Miss Julia Law.
Okay, three minutes. Yeah, we need to red light go on.
Good afternoon. My name is Julia Law. That's my sister Sue. We bought our property at [address removed] about forty years ago and we did that to get out of a subdivision. We decided we were gonna go move up into the country, have some acreage, have some horses like everybody else does up there. and putting this subdivision in, which we're very much opposed to, by the way they have it with the seventy foot home sites. Now if they put in an equestrian subdivision with one or
two acre parcels, it would assimilate better to the people that have been living in this area for the last forty, fifty years and generations for that matter. Um I have a question with the water. I didn't hear anybody explain.
Yeah, I think that was brought up several times.
Are they gonna be on county water? Is it gonna be a well, what are they gonna do?
Well she's gonna when the applicant comes back up she can answer this question.
Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Also, this area is very rich in History of Indian artifacts and wildlife. Anybody that lives out there knows the coyotes that are in our yards all the time, attacking our chickens. We've got pigs, cows, you name it. It's a farming community. It's not conducive to subdivisions. Florida is become like the southern border. Ever since COVID? Everybody's coming into Florida. And they're not assimilating. I mean it's bad enough if I gotta press two for English. I
can't press two for a country. What's gonna happen? Everybody in Hudson is gonna move up to Swanee. They get the hell out of Dodge because what we put our our money and our time and our lives into is taken get taken away from people coming down from up north. And tearing down all our trees and our privacy. And I was a deputy from nineteen ninety-six, I'm sorry, nineteen eighty-six. The 2000. I worked out in six. I loved it. Never had a call, you know why? There's people don't call nine one one up
there. They're out there shooting their shotguns at sunset. You think that new little community is gonna like that? It is what it is.
I'm gonna steal that quote by the way. Can't press two for country.
So in closing I just want to say that this is not gonna work. Um it's gonna really be an undue hardship on the sheriff's office. Because when this community that they're planning gets going, they're gonna be calling for everything. Everything. There's pigs go walking down the street, going into other people's yards. There's horses. People ride your horses or ATVs up and down the street. It's not gonna work. So I appreciate your attention in this matter. Have a good day. Thanks.
The last individual pre registered to speak is Skyler Talley.
Skylar, forget your name and address please.
Skylar Towling. I'm at [address removed]. As you can see I'm in my work clothes today. Um Kitten Trail. This is so important to me to be here that I didn't really have time to change. Um You can probably tell that I don't have the tenure that most of these residents do in this area. Um been here not very long. Um my property is at the corner of this development. We can see them over our back fence. I'm
going to speak to some of the direct experiences that I have with some of the things that other people have spoken about. I have four children. One attends Hudson Academy. Three of them are actually, through school choice, they're homeschooled. primarily because Hudson Primary Academy does not have the ability to accommodate as many children that are in classes already. We're talking about
800 houses. on a good day. I mean, in this case, half of those houses all have one kitten. That that alone is already gonna dramatically change the school that is right nearby. The school that I have to drive to every single day to drop my son off. The school that I enter the 20 mile per hour zone and I'm passed by one, two, three cars flying
40, 50 miles an hour that are ignoring. These signs that we've put up for the safety of the kids, for the safety of the community, for the safety of the people driving on this road. The problem that I see with this is that there this is forty five, fifty miles an hour there. I go to turn on my driveway. and people are flying past me at sixty or seventy highway speeds. And this is on kitten. Nobody's spoken about Denton. I don't drive down Denton.
because on Denton Avenue there's less density and people are driving at those speeds regularly. I feel like going the speed limit on Denton is almost a crime. I feel like I'm gonna be pulled over for going too slow and impeding traffic. Not just that. I am a farmer. I do have animals. I do hear shotguns, I do hear pistols, I do hear rifles every single
day. We're talking about 830 homes that they have said is gonna are gonna start in the six to seven hundred thousand dollar range. These are not people who are going to be moving into this area for the rural lifestyle and the rural community that we are a part of right now. These are people that are gonna have complaints consistently and are gonna change the way of life of all the residents that have been here. for decades, for the people who have moved here for the
purpose of the land at the acreage that we have. I completely oppose the development as they have it set right now. Anything less than one acre lots is going to change. The entire community. even one acre lots, you're still gonna find people who are moving for the space. It's not enough.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Okay. Is there anybody here to speak that didn't have a chance?
Okay.
We need your name and address or you can just speak now. Yeah.
How are you doing? And thank you for being here and letting everybody get here to speak. My name is Martin Dolbach. I'm at [address removed]. I live on the corner of [address removed] and on the property is my backyard where they want to build. Yes, I was here for that. Well my question is, when I built my house, and I did build it, and I went through your county, your codes, your regulations. Setbacks, side, twenty five feet. Back line, fifty
feet. Now I got four acres. And you're gonna change all that and now they're doing seventy, sixty, and fifty foot Zoning. I don't understand why you need to make such a small And I don't like talking either, but I don't understand why there's gotta be such a big development with the traffic and everything. Now if you open up Bolton, which wasn't proposed when we talked to them, they said they were gonna stop and it had a first priority when they showed it, it ran through our property, through my garage, not
down the side. Say just to that.
Now, when you open a Bolton, I live on [address removed], that's one Dusty Road. We own to the middle of the road. Now we're gonna have traffic coming down the middle of that road. Can I block it? 'Cause you guys don't maintain it. It is our property to the middle.
And that's what's gonna wind up happening because there's gonna be a problem because people wanna fly down our road. Because like I said, I'm right at the corner. Of uh [address removed].
And everything everybody said, hundred percent agree with them. There's there used to be eagles on the back of the property. When they took out the uh pine cone tree or pine trees along Denton, they took them all out, eagles left. There's two red foxes or not red foxes, red wolves, and that wood also that I have seen personally. I have bobcats on my camera. There is every walk of life and extinct little animals and lizards and things that you don't wouldn't even imagine that you see. I
mean, even on my property, yes, it's, you know, dangerous. Five foot rattlesnakes. They're there. Pygmy rattlers, corals, they're all there. Coach Whips, everything. Possums, raccoons. uh every walk of animal you can think of. They're all crowded in and you take that from they got nowhere to go. And the main thing my thing is for the amount of houses they're putting, you know, eight hundred houses on three hundred acres and how can they get away with such a small piece of property when
we have setbacks or had setbacks and it's all AR. That's all I got to say. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Okay, that's all we have on the question inside. Would the ask one like the response?
Barbara Will Hike for the applicant. Can you put the rural character area layer on, please, so people can kind of see where the rural area is out here and where it's not?
Planning areas, I think. And then rural areas.
Planning areas and then down to rural areas.
So in 2006 the county, when I was with the county, amended the comprehensive plan to specifically detail where in the county was going to remain rural. And in this area you heard quite a few speakers and I looked up every speaker where they lived. Um as they spoke. And quite a few of the speakers. Talked about their properties and they live in the rural character area. The rural character area was is predominantly Res I. And it stops at Coyote because at Coyote the County's
land use designations change to three on this property is six. So that area is a final form of development and it was decided that way. The issue in two thousand six was identifying what's rural and what's not. This area is not rural. So when you approach it this project You have to recognize that and so it's a balance. We have res six land use on this property. And
it means something.
As regarding size of lots of If you look at page fifty five of the compatibility study, you'll see an analysis of what's the county has determined to be compatible with larger lots. What's not on this list is Summer Chase, and two people spoke from Summer Chase. Summer Chase is an R4 development, six thousand square foot lots. Next to those 6,000 square foot lots is a 6.5 acre parcel and a 12.92
acre parcel. That was determined compatible. Those lots are 6,000 square feet. We're doing 7,000 square feet plus along our along kitten, and then we're doing the 6,000 square foot lots as well. So it's also important to have context that these decisions have been made by the county as to what is compatible over and over and over. Denton Place has five-acre adjacencies next to 40 foot lots.
Hudson Family Trail. Has excuse me, Sackelson, approved just recently, has a 17.55 acre lot next to a sixty acre lot. So between the land use on the property and what's already been determined to be what's compatible We could have proposed a lot sm smaller lot sizes. But we didn't, because we tried to achieve a balance. We meant we were purposely had those four meetings to listen to the residents. But what we're not gonna do is change What
the properties have the right to do. You know, I heard a lot of descriptions of the property as our property, and the end of the day it's not their property, it's the property owner's property. So we've got to keep that some context in mind and that's where we tried to reach a balance in trying to to work on buffering. I know Ms. Lowe talked about our buffering plan, but I'm Goodna see if I can get her the buffering plan because it actually is twenty foot buff twenty foot buffer, not fifteen. And we're not talking about immature plants. We are we're talking about opacity. We're and we're gonna
keep existing vegetation, we're gonna supplement. Where it's not a hundred percent opacity today, we're gonna supplement. And with a specific landscaping plan. So that just wasn't It was very thoughtful in the way that was done again trying to achieve that balance. So the other projects were approved with minimal county. buffers, forty foot lots, We could have done that, we could have proposed it, and we could have said it's already been done, it's already acceptable, and Denton Place you all recommended approval of. The board approved it as well. But we didn't. We listened,
we changed, we tried to do things, but what we not can't do, and I mentioned this to residents we met with them four times, is go away. You know, we have property rights as well. The property will be on uh and when you heard the first speaker talk about coyote acres and kitten coyote, those are in the pearl character area. So it's usual for that area. Is final form of development rural character? No land use changes are supposed to happen in that area. And we're not seeking a land use change here. Central water and sewer, your comprehensive plan says, and I
know this as an expert, your comprehensive plan says where there's central water and sewer, the minimum density needs to be around three units per acre. So that there's an efficient use of public infrastructure that the public's put in place. This project has central water and sewer at its doorstone.
With regard to Cobra Way and Kitten Trail, yes, I'm aware of the death of the student um who was riding their bicycle on Kitten Trail in the dark or bit hours. Regardless of that, we don't propose any access to Kitten Trail. The county's come in and done the sidewalk. We're happy to put in the same enhanced pedestrian crossing that we're putting in Denton, that we're gut we can put that in kit kitten, we can make that a condition of approvals if you if you're ready to vote on this today and and want
to recommend approval. We can put the same crossing there as well.
I'm not sure the exact and I looked up five twenty-two point two and five twenty-two point four. I don't know the exact uh s there's pretty long sections there. Um re relative to that code, not sure exactly what sections. I we do have obviously we've done a traffic analysis here of traffic over and over and over again. One thing I wanna do point I wanna point out about Um Our students We worked with the school board to determine whether our students would be bussed and we have a I have an email from Chris Williams that
our students will be bussed.
So It's just a g something an issue that yeah, people always have the question, will they be bust or will they not be bust? Our students will be bust.
I will have Joe Simono talk about water and flooding. Yes.
would like you to please hold your conversations in the audience. We're giving you every opportunity to speak. Now we need to give the applicant the fair opportunity to speak. So let's just be courteous.
We'll have Joseph come up and talk about flooding and the different things that he heard that he can add to in a few minutes. The commercial and industrial, that's the county's land use on the property. We're obligated to follow that land use. So that's how that came to be, the county. And we actually our first amendment actually seeked to change that. And the county pushed back. Um and so they really wanted to see that industrial and the support commercial preserved. So that's how that came to be.
the um traffic We did our traffic analysis based upon access from Denton. I want to clear up the Bolton because I'm maybe there was some confusion. We're not proposing to construct Bolton. We were asked to accommodate Bolton through our property, so we're not Our access doesn't depend on Bolton. Wasn't included in our traffic study. We're not proposing to do anything off site to Bolton. We were asked to accommodate Bolton because the county was putting Bolton in as a vision road to to um accommodate Bolton. Future
Vision Road, if it ever comes to be. But our project is not accessing from Bolton. Our project is accessing from Denton. Our traffic study was based upon access from Denton. We meet all of the requirements in the land development code that you have to meet in order for the property to be zoned in the manner that we have proposed.
We've submitted a 55-page compatibility analysis going through every policy of the code, every policy of the comp plan, and showing consistency with that. Again, being thoughtful, making sure we're doing everything right, making sure we're dotting the I's, crossing the T's.
I'm just making sure I I took really good notes, so I do wanna um make sure that I address different things that people brought up.
So you said that's the same thing.
So We're not going to change Mattis. Whether they want it paved or not paved. You know, I just wanted to make sure that was clear that you know our property, our project's not going to use Mattis for access. It is a existing dirt road at this time. The question of county water versus wells, they will be on central water and sewer, which is pub you know, it's it's not wells and not septic.
What did I forget to address?
Um, where do you think the most of the traffic's gonna be? uh generated what roads are they gonna be generated onto?
Our traffic access and the study that transportation analysis that we did is based upon access to and from Denton. In our previous traffic study that was referenced in 2021, we had a connection to kitten, so we had to study kitten. But when we removed that access from kitten at the request of the neighbors, all of it, including emergency access, we no longer have any access to kitten. So our study is based upon access to and from Denton. We do think at some point um our spine road will Connecting
to Denton will require a traffic signal, which will help actually help. And the speeding that you hear. When that when we're warranted. the c we anticipate a condition on our access management analysis. Access management's done at the next stage, not the not the zoning stage in this case, but we anticipate it will be signalized at some point at that spine road, which will not only help get people across the road, It'll also help break break up the speeding.
But did you say the density was
The compliant density?
No the project density. Uh oh
two point five.
Two point five. Yeah.
So then most of the people spoke to there are you saying that they live in that green area there?
I'm sorry, Jimmy.
No, and we uh they I there are people that live in the green area and we met them at our neighborhood meetings and I tried to tell them to contact Hyatt and to learn what the rural character area means to their property. I still think they should contact the county so they understand what it means to be in the rural character area because it is a specially protected area. It doesn't have any res six land use in it, it doesn't have any res three land use in it. It's got res one land uses and and lower. So but I think you you know I chart everybody out and neighbors we have neighbors on kitten and there's a neighbor on Mattis
and their and their uh child their son or and daughter and then Dennis Drive. What were the people that spoke today? And then two people from Summer Chase.
So I was trying to keep track of where everybody was. I would say that the project's going to based upon the new mobility fees, kind of interesting. I was calculating looking at what you guys looked at a couple weeks ago on March nineteenth as to what's going on with the mobility fees. This project will pay $11.5 million in mobility fees just for the residential. You take that together with Dent and Place, which has been referenced here, which is the D.R. Horton Lenar project that's underway. Based upon 2025 rates, they're going to pay 7.5 million Um in
mobility fees. which and their mobil their mobility fees are earmarked to um construction in this area. It'll be interesting to see if the board just does that to this project as well, if if they approve it, whether they earmark it for road construction. But between those the two projects there's about a twenty million dollar um fees that are being generated to pay for road improvements.
I want to let Joe Simonoke talk to you all about engineering things.
Why Joe's coming up, I think one of the other issues Liam you might be able to speak to this is school capacity. I think one of the gent gentlemen is
Yeah, so our concurrence concurrency area for this um zone is is well under capacity. Um why there is development going on in this area, um we monitor that closely. Again, not everybody, not every student is gonna be going to the school. There is multiple options now for students. We've also had a decline in enrollment in our schools for the second year in a row. So that's something we monitor as well with new developments. We also, two miles south on Hicks
Road, so two miles south of Kenton Road on Hicks, we own a 40-acre parcel as well that is reserved for an elementary school so if there is some sort of massive increase that couldn't be handled by maybe a new wing or portables to to manage that capacity, um there there's certainly property that we already have in the area that we could use for a new school if that was needed.
Every site plan that comes into the county, there's a concurrency review that the school board does so they know When houses are being proposed for construction 'cause they are getting notice of that. So they're keeping pretty good track of where developments are going, when they're going, So
Okay, Joanne.
Yes, I forgot about 'em. Sorry about that too. Thank you.
Well Council Members, Chairman, good afternoon. Joe Simono, WRA Engineering, one two three six three Hampton Park Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, three three six two four. Um I'll address the potable supply first. Um completely understandable concern. It goes without saying these folks livelihood relies on their water wells working. We are connecting to central water. You know, we do a lot of projects on pretty major developed areas where we spend
time chasing uh utility connections, but this just happens to be one where we have a 24-inch force main, a 12-inch water main, and a 16-inch reclaim water main right at our front door. So
where's the water that fills that water main coming from?
Yep, exactly. So there There
is
not a drop of that water that will be coming from underneath this land or underneath the land.
Hundreds of miles that's being sourced.
Oh right now. If I go into a restaurant I can't get a glass of water. unless I as specifically asked for it, which I'm not sure whose brilliant idea that was,
but
How do we How do we reconcile that you can't get a glass of water in a restaurant with the construction of eight hundred and thirty two homes a shopping center and an industrial park.
So w uh what is the what is the specific question? How do we recognise?
I'm asking where does the water come from? Right now, you're not allowed to sprinkle your grass and you can't get a glass of water at a restaurant. We're not in phase one, phase two, we're in phase three water restriction. Okay? Okay, where's the water coming from?
The water for this particular property will be coming from the distribution main on Denton Avenue, which pulls from the Tampa Bay Water Backbone, which sources from surface water sources, desalination plant, and groundwater wells. Closest one, probably 10-12 miles away. The point is, not a drop of water coming out of these people's faucets comes from below the ground of this property or anyone around it.
Fair enough, but you did still an answer where the water's coming from to fill the water main.
Well I I th I think too that they're required to go into a utility services agreement with utilities. That might be a better question for staff.
Yeah, I have another question for staff related to that as well.
Yes, whatever
agreements are.
Pasco County Attorney as with Tampa Bay Water, that's a question for staff. But again, surface water wells, groundwater well fields not adjacent to this site, and desalination plants.
Those are the exact sources.
From a drainage standpoint, this is an interesting one where we're not actually sending any water downstream. All the water is coming at us. So it's a closed basin. We'll be designing to store a full 100-year flood in our property, not just from the water on our site, but from the water coming off adjacent properties at us. At this stage in zoning, it's surprising the amount of geotechnical work that's been done just to ensure that you know groundwater
table depths, percolation rates, so there's about a dozen inflow points from the neighbors' properties into our property. We've got a conceptual grading plan showing how we're pulling in all that water and how we're sizing adequately for a hundred-year storm onto our property. Did look up uh Miss Bolton's property that's adjacent to the southwest corner. She was one of the uh I think the second speaker, third speaker. Yes, her house is uh sitting at about 20, elevation 20, and she's got a little bowl sitting at about 17 right in her side
yard. So uh definitely a tough situation for for her property right there. But we're not in that bowl, we don't send water that way, her water doesn't come towards us. Um but I would Be happy to talk to any of the residents about any flooding concerns out there, just like we did at the four neighborhood meetings. That's always good data for our design. Especially as we're taking water in from the surrounding areas.
Just to clarify, your your pond volumes account for that entire closed basin that you identified?
Yes, sir. Okay. On-site and off-site. And we're being conservative. We were educated by some of the residents that some of the drainage from the west that I was assuming, you know, doesn't doesn't even really get to us, but hey, I gotta draw conservative lines on Basin Map, so I'm taking in everything I that seems uh like I should.
Any further questions?
Any other questions on the water? Yeah, I mean for for staff regarding the utilities. So we used to get in our packet, um, you know, we I see where there's no objections from utilities department, but that's all we got. What we used to have a a handout or a attachment in the packet that would actually show the available capacity of both. both potable and sewer water where that capacity was at with and without the project.
But they quit doing that. Now all they do and that comes with comp plan amendments, not in D D's All they do is tell us how far it is to the nearest water main. What they haven't told us is Where's the capacity coming from to fill that water man?
Yeah, and like I said, we used to see those numbers, so I'm just trying to figure out why we're not seeing that anymore. I mean, you know, this is a obviously an issue when we're in the middle of a drought. Uh now granted droughts come and go, you know, by the time this project comes online we may be flushed full of water for all we know, uh, due to a massive rainy season. But But regardless, you know, there the kind of capacity that is needed for these projects that comes through utilities that takes time to bring
that capacity online, whether it's through additional wells or firing up a desalination plant to more capacity. So that's why I'd be interested in seeing, you know, more of these numbers as opposed to just no objection.
Well it's amazing and I'm not
has nothing to do with this project. Because if you recall In the summer of twenty twenty-four, we were in a drought and we were on water restrictions and we had members of the public asking the same questions. And then along came Hurricanes Helene and Milton. And we had record flooding. We never made it to phase three water restrictions. prior to those hurricanes. So
That goes to show you how much water our area is actually using. We used up the water dumped upon us. by those two hurricanes. And now we're in a worse water situation than where we b were before those two hurricanes hit us.
I was remiss to note something, which was there was a concern about a data processing center We don't have any intention to do a data processing center in our industrial. We'd be happy to add that to a prohibitive use. So I just wanted to add that to the record.
I was reading my notes and realized I didn't address that, so
Uh Arra, how do you speak what do you speak to as far as compatibility the with the air surrounding area?
To again you've got a rural character area. It was set out as rural. County specifically in 2006 said what was rural and what was not. This area has a res six and res three land uses. Our la our density is about two point five units per acre. Um well below those land uses. As far as lot you hear a lot about lot size compatibility, like I said You look at the right-of-way. Other projects that have been approved? and what their c consistency is with larger
lots and what what is consistent we are actually exceeding between our twenty foot buffer and our hundred percent opacity and existing vegetation being preserved because we did the grading plan already and supplementing the existing vegetation so a real buffer and saving existing vegetation, which people always ask, can you save, can you save, can you save? Well we we answered that question. So real buffers, 20 feet instead of 10. Um or fifteen as the case may be. Looking at sing we did single story.
along our perimeters. W other clients have been asked to do that. They're like, no, that's unreasonable. Um so we both this client agreed to it. We agreed to the lot sizes that we did, larger lot sizes, larger than the I can rattle off these other approvals for other projects, you know, smaller lot sizes adjacent to similar type similar type um Um homes and properties. So again it's It's a
balance. We've tried we try to approach as a balance. We probably could have just come and just said, Well, this other one was approved right here called Denton Place. You all recommend approval of it, the board approved it. And here's what you found consistent. But we didn't do that. We didn't stop there. I don't know if they had neighborhood meetings or not. I had four of them. You know, we did three of them and then a long pause and came back with a fourth one and came up with different things that we showed them. But in the end of the day, you know not gonna go away. It's the project's not gonna go away. It's got a land use, it's gonna be
developed. This development plan is a very, very, very good development plan against any plan that you see every day coming before you. It's a good development plan. We've spent time on it, we spent years on it. Um So that's my answer regarding the the compatibility is
that we're we're not seeking the max here. We've come up with something very reasonable to balance.
and try to really listen and change what we can change. Other than going away. As I explained to the neighbors in those four meetings, we're not gonna go away. Um but you know you do is there an opportun there is an opportunity when you present something before you And somebody comes with a development plan that's a good development plan because if we go away, somebody else comes back with something else. Or the courts decide, right? So um I hope you see the effort that was put in to balance. Hope you recognize the fact that it has a land use on it. We're following those land uses.
We're consistent with the comprehensive plan. We're consistent with the land development code. We've met all the requirements. We're exceeding all the requirements. And I know it's difficult when people stand before you and 19 people, 19 people, 18 people stand before you and say, Please don't do this. I I understand. But your job is also to the fact that this property owner has rights as well. And so I've tried to achieve the balance. I've tried to really listen and do things in a in a very Even today,
like, okay, yes, we'll get the kids across um kitten, we'll do that. Yes, data processing concern, yes, we're happy to prohibit that use. We don't have any reason to do that. Um so Thank you.
This land this land now it looks obviously it looks like mostly pasture land. All right.
Yes. Yeah, I think it was probably harvested at some point.
Our adjacencies are. I mean there's some good preservation along our where you know, where we're gonna save existing vegetation. We're pulling back our project twenty feet, right? So we're not gonna grade into that twenty feet. We're pulling that back so we can save that existing vegetation. Which is significant. Nothing better than what you see today and it not changing and then making supplementing and making it better is what we're what we're proposing. And picking a landsc picking the native native species so it it looks similar as opposed to what you know what the code
requires.
This might be more for staff bar, but just while you're up here talking about access, I from what I'm reading our the land development code This many units requires two access points.
Two functional points, yes. And we'd have two.
Okay. There are two.
If you look at the binding plan, the MPD plan, there's two arrow arrows. There's an arrow at the spine road and then there's an arrow along our western property boundary. Our western property boundary is adjacent to the county's Ribs? Probably don't say that right, but it's a county facility. Um and so we chose to put a road there as opposed to somewhere else that might impact people.
So would that road that's got s I see it now and it says access for a dedicated to light industrial, would that road be built all the way down to Um
Talk about the upper left corner or the upper border.
Yeah, we don't have a we we have a conceptual layout, so I don't want to say exactly how we m where we may how we may configure But we certainly are anticipating having the two functional access points, but once you get back into the project, not having a final design, Joe would kind of get me kind of crazy if we get too much more detail but we'll but We understand that we have requirements for both emergency and the second functional access over 600 units.
And I think Derek, you're probably getting to this earlier. I'm just concerned with emergency access to the southern portion, all coming from the north. If response time already on kitten trail is twenty-five minutes, if it's they've got to go all the way to Denton and then down into this development to get to a fire or an emergency, that's probably even longer. Um I know that on the Agenda memo we had no objection from fire, but I think from when we talked to them earlier or last year, they're more so looking at site plans.
Right. detail they're like who is it this? So I don't I think just maybe this more and like I said, this is probably more for staff discussion, but
Yeah, I understand.
We get into this emergency access all the time, right? We prep we file we file the code. Neighbors get s concerned. We try to work with the neighbors.
Yeah.
But ultimately, if you or the board determined that we need to have emergency access, we'll provide emergency access. Certainly. So it's it's not a we're not fighting, we're just trying to work.
Yeah, I understand the concern from the residents about it being potentially flipped into actual access at some point. So I don't know if there's any safeguards we can put around that through.
There we have we have um we went through this on Sackelson, you heard me talk about Sackelson and guarantee
it's only used for emergency access.
We have a whole bunch of conditions that go with because Sackelson had emergency access to colony. It was all the same concerns. So I and we did the same dance, you know, we're like, we're not we didn't we proposed it, neighbors were worried, we didn't propose it. And the board said we wanted it, so we have all s all sorts of conditions that we can put on that. If
David, what would be the s I mean, is there a feed restriction or a uh what kind of a safeguard can you put on that to guarantee it's only used into perpetuity as emergency access?
You can if you clad it as an emergency access, it's almost impossible to change it. Yes.
So one of the residents mentioned one that was flipped, was that not platted as an emergency access?
I don't I'm not sure which one you're talking about. The one that flipped. This is the gentleman over there in the gray shirt that mentioned it. It was um I forget which project
you mentioned. I I don't know what one that was flipped. I mean there have been some that we've intentionally written the condition that said it could be flipped in the future. There had Barbara and I have worked on some of those and the said if the roads ever upgrade in the future we can convert it to a full access, but But we've intentionally done that. I'm I'm not aware of one where we platted it as an emergency access and then flipped it later. I mean if it's it's if it's platted as an emergency access I think it's
gonna be very difficult to change that after the fact.
What would be the process to do that?
We'll write a condition of approval.
No no no I'm saying if it were platted as an emergency access and one wanted to change that, if a board wanted to change that, what process would the board have to do?
I suppose it would be some kind of vacation of a plat. I mean
And I could say that it could never be done, but it would be difficult to do.
But nonetheless, there's a process by which it could be done.
Anything could be done.
I mean Well, you say it's difficult, it's difficult what I'm getting at is it takes three three out of five votes,
right?
I mean, if there was if they if the board really wanted to do something bad enough they could condemn it. Okay. I mean so that's why I kinda saying if you There's no way to fully wanted to do something there's a way to to do it.
even the way this is proposed.
So but I don't see uh it'd be I see it seems unlikely that if we've platted it as an emergency access that we're gonna come in and then just condemn it later and condemn it and
That's why we put put the park there because there's no roads down there. Made people feel more comfortable. The fact the way the l the land design is is not designed where it would lend itself to becoming something else.
Is it right?
But once and that's the concern you hear, you know, that once there is an emergency access then there's that potential that it can change. And so that's the What I've heard over all the thirty one years or whatever it is I've been doing this. That's the pros and the cons. And that's why this was intentional. He requested that we put our passive park down there so that there there isn't land design that there's roads heading that way that someday may become functional access.
Even if they did this where they show no access at all. Could the county twenty years from now come in and condemn that? Make it a full access? Sure. Absolutely. Yes, yes.
So nothing's permanent.
Not even conservation easement.
Yeah, but I mean if you had an emergency in the southern end of that neighborhood getting emergency vehicles back there quickly or you know if there was a accident completely blocking Denton for example and or even worst case scenario you have a brush fire that's closed off Denton and it's
We are fine either way and we can work on I know you conditions we can put on conditions either way to to provide as much certainty and Tie everybody's hands as much as we can.
Thank you.
So is there somebody on staff that can talk to Water? The middle one?
Reactory. I'm sorry, sir. You can't unless you're called up, you can't speak.
What is it?
Mm-hmm.
Then but utilities on or not.
Looks like a tough
It's not important. I I don't need I don't particularly need that answer. Mine's more of a rhetorical question. I want to know how you reconcile that with the public that you can't have a glass of water, but you can build eight hundred and thirty two homes.
Well I th I think if it it it would be good if we can just hear how that is determined by utilities because it's I
agree because again we're missing that I'd like to see that portion of our uh agenda memo added back in where we see actual c gallons of capacity. Well
I and I think it's probably tied my guess is it's tied to the utility service agreement. That's when they're gonna have to make that determination if they can even make that agreement. But But I just for our benefit and public the tiers of the benefit, I th I wouldn't mind hearing that process from utilities just to understand it better.
If that's important for you all to make a decision, You know. We don't have to have this happen today. We can come back next month. You all can get the utilities department can be here. They can be prepared to present to you and to explain that to you all. Again, we're not we're not trying to shove anything down. I mean I know it's I know the neighbors would disagree, but if that's you know information you'd like to have, we can we'd be happy to continue to uh so that utilities can be here and actually present that to you. And any other questions that
you want follow-up on that you haven't heard from today?
I mean I think it's more of a and glo it's more of a global question than even just a this project question. I think it That might be a re something we'd like to know from utilities just and globally, but okay.
Well. I mean I know it's I know the D Sale plant uh is operating at a tiny fraction of its capacity, but it takes time to bring those things online.
Template Water's got an extensive capital improvement plan to bring on more sources of water and there's so there's a lot. But they're not here right now. But they're not here right now, exactly. So uh
Well a are there any uh more questions from uh the applicant or do you want to stand up and you'd like to speak take uh the applicant's suggestion and continue it or do you wanna really go in and do it?
I think I think they're working on getting some of the utilities on right now. He's
I believe a tough Hannah is on, if you can hear us.
Hello, can you hear me? Yeah.
Hi, I'm Tef Hanna with uh Pasco County Utilities. Uh sorry to join late, but uh Mm-hmm. The the question by Mr. Moody, correct?
Yes. Can you can you pose a question again? I'm asking how I reconcile to the public that one cannot go in a restaurant and get a glass of water without specifically asking for it because we're on phase three water restrictions, but there's not a problem with building eight hundred and thirty two new homes that will demand a hundred gallons per day per person for the next hundred years.
So we are required to provide uh the water supply The pole. uh for future growth. And we continue to provide. For the ground, all the time. And also we have water supply. provided by Kamber Bay Water, which for guaranteed water supply as well. We used to do that. I heard that w You
talked about you wanted to see the form back showing the uh the the capacity and uh that we can meet that capacity. We are we can do that, but some time back we We were told not to continue to do that. Um It it is, we are building our system to meet the f to meet the demand and we cannot turn growth. Or that. The
entire area is under Hello. Stage three, so we have to be responsible while we use the water responsibly. We have to be responsible too. Or using that one.
Uh Tef, can you elaborate on the requirement to provide water for growth and not being able to
D or denying growth because of Yeah.
Yeah. If you if you come and tell me that you have eight hundred plus units And uh can you meet that or not? I will tell you yes I can meet that. Because we're building the water system. uh to meet that already. And we will actually go Everywhere. to upsize the lines to uh to meet the demand.
So the water the water supply Our ability to water supply Well meet. The the demand.
We will pro we will always provide you with the availability of water.
It is our responsibility to do that.
So John, I'm not sure that answers your question.
No. Mm-hmm. I appreciate that that's what a TEF needs to do Right. There's no need to beat that
horse. Well and again this it could take three, five years for this project to come online anyway, so it's that point we'll maybe in a completely different situation water wise, but
to my point you saw how quickly we went from record flood to record drought.
Yep.
It could get worse too.
So I I can give you a little example of where we can actually connect our lines to surf, which and loop our lines as well. Which is We have a line on Hudson and we have a line on fifty two and we can connect these two lines with a large line. to make sure we're that we're meeting actually the demand of the area. Oh.
and also continue to have water quality in the system as well.
We plug in all these developments into our model. And we have a master util a met a water master plan that we just finished. That included all this development.
So
what's the pleasure of the board? I mean I still have some reservations about the the density in general. I understand that um we're below res three and pretty much it's pretty much a sea of res three around there, this one little pocket of res six. Uh uh future land use is you know so this is being built well below that and obviously it's even below the res three that's surrounding it but it's pretty close to R one and um
it's one of those situations we had a we had a um a project like this not too long ago. um where we talked about yes this is probably good but I don't know if it's good now it's whether or not that the area is mature enough you know in terms my my concerns are infrastructure um in terms of roads and water and And all the other stuff that we've just been talking about. So, you know, should it be developed? Probably.
I mean it's a it's a it's bare pasture. It's not really we wouldn't be displacing a lot of endangered animals or cutting down a bunch of big pretty trees, but at the same time this density, I mean I I personally have some issues with it, but that's just that's just me.
Well, I mean I I think to that point and to some of the residents point th none of us are thrilled to see country disappear in Pasco. We've all been here a long time and and love that part of the county as well. Same respect as Barbara mentioned, they do have an entitlement here. Um With the future land use. We get to we get to balance all that and hopefully make a recommendation of our making this as best we can but kinda have a
lot of limits on what we can
Well, I I just I I just think sometimes Simply because we made a decision some years ago that this property Should be R six, for example.
You know, how can we know? I I think we have to make current decisions at the current present time and I totally understand and agree that if you're a property owner you s you have certain property rights. You're paying taxes on that property, you've had it for maybe you've had for fifty years. I don't know how long this person's own the property. And um probably if any individual person in this room owned this property they'd
be Making that same same argument. However. For some reason I just don't feel comfortable with. putting eight hundred homes in this particular area at this particular time. Yeah. You know, so my philosophy has always been
The landowner has rights. That doesn't mean that a landowner can do anything they want with the property. We still have to inform
And I think we have an obligation to consider the people that are already there living around that area. So the time has to be right. I just feel uncomfortable. you know, in this innocence, I
You know, I think they have the right to the pro to to build on the property. I'm just not sure that they have the right. Well that we should give it in the right.
We
built eight
hundred homes. That's kinda where I'm at. I think the density is a little so a little heavy. The comp plan does indicate that at no time are you absolutely entitled to the maximum density that the property will yield. I know
and
man and many, many times.
Uh Ms. Well Light is coming here and she's you know, voluntarily
Tried to right size the property I'll say. you know, and made some concessions and I think She's trying to do the same thing on this one, but at the same time she's she also has a responsibility to her client. Sure.
Mm-hmm.
So but ultimately we're the ones that have to decide whether it's the right project at the right time.
Well we get to recommend whether or not it's the right project. It's
not always
an easy decision. I'm in I'm I think I'm in the same place you are. a couple of thoughts. One, I recognize that every property owner has rights. to do things on their property. Whether it's build a house on their lot. We build a subdivision on their large tract.
But there's a couple of things. One.
The density the claim of density is two point five dwelling units to the acre. I'll tell you that it's fifty percent higher. because that's based on the entire acreage of the parcel. If you go look at what is the acreage of the res six area, you actually get a density of about three and a half dwelling units to the acre. first of all. So it's it's it's higher.
I don't think
maybe for purposes of the law and land use law, Can we go back to the aerial photo with the green rural character area?
I don't think it's reasonable to tell people I don't care what the comp plan says. that if you live
in the green area you're rural. But if you live outside that green area you're not rural. Well, I drive down Kitten Trail. And By the way, I went and looked in it. Our comp plan doesn't actually have a definition of rural, so
But I know rural when I see it.
It's just kinda like the the Supreme Court, you know, they tried to define what pornography was. They didn't have a definition of it, but they knew what it was when they saw it. That's the way I know what rural is.
Seth.
And I think if you drive down Kitten Trail, nobody's gonna argue that anything on Kitten Trail is urban and or suburban. It's pretty rural. Yeah. Okay?
Even if you have this demarcation line at the edge of what's defined as rural according to the green blob and what's not, you still have to have transition. So let's say you you say, Okay, that's where rural ends, which I don't know who is who has the ability to say that, but If let's say you do say that, you still need some transition space in between the two. You can't put high density right up and next to that depark demarcation.
struck me that came from I think it was Mr. Lowe that said it. And I actually pulled up my calculator to check the math. The largest lot And we're We're sold this project as if we're getting something great. Right? Because now they've they've gotten us used to these little four thousand square foot and thirty two hundred square foot lots. that we've all figured out we don't need. And now we're being sold, Hoy look, you can have luxury,
we'll give you seven thousand square foot lots. Not even a quarter acre. Right. Exactly. Not even a quarter acre. And to Mr. Lowe's point, you can fit sixty-two point two of those seven seventy by a hundred lots. in the average ten acre tract that A butts to this property. That's not compatible.
I don't have a problem if the applicant wants to come back in here and I actually liked the one suggestion of the one neighbor that suggested they should be one acre lots.
That would seem that's much more dense than what is around, but at least it
Somewhat some rural preserving the rural character even though the somebody somebody in 2006 decided this is rural but over here it's not. I'm not quite sure how you can look at the aerial photograph or the map and say this is rural but this is not. Maybe that person never drove down Kitten Trail. They never left their office at the county building to go see what was down there.
But that's that's what I think. I I just don't think that whether they be forty foot lots, fifty foot lots, or seventy foot lots is compatible. with ten acre lots. And even the smallest lot I saw that I was quickly clicking around was point nine. Yeah. Acres.
But nonetheless they're in a neighborhood. where the vast majority of the surrounding land is on larger Tracks. And the people do have horses. In fact As you go How? I'm sorry, now 'cause I'm getting into the rural character area after you go around the bend and you're headed up there towards east road. There there is the most beautiful horse farm. Out there. And that is amazing. And like I said,
I actually got a telephone call from one of the county commissioners one day that was her first time driving out there who was amazed at what the character of this particular area is. Yeah. I'd like to I don't want to make a motion to deny it. I think they have the right to develop the property. I'd like to see them come back with a proposal. that respects their neighbors. not just trying to milk every last
dollar.
We'll take a continuance and consider what you guys are are saying and come back.
J just to help the maybe to help the applicant here on this parcel, I mean, I know there's reference in this property does butt right up to the kitten trail lots and these larger lots.
This project access is off of Denton. Is there I mean is there a a
buffer per se that maybe would make you more
comfortable? You
bring up a good point. I At the outset of the hearing, I asked I asked what was the genesis of this property becoming res six? It's in a sea of res three. This didn't make sense to me. If f I finally figured it out. At least I think I figured it out. And this had to do It has to do with transition
of density in that at some point Pasco County came and built its ribs out here in this rural, whether defined as rural or not area. The ribs. ribs that's rap rapid infiltration basins. That's an industrial type use. So that makes sense to me why then the land use was changed to industrial immediately adjacent to the ribs and then the res 6 was
the transition from industrial back to res 3. I think there was some method to the madness. But as Mr. Gray said, this was a decision made two decades ago and I'm not sure it fits with today. To Jamie's point I think I might agree with you, Jamie, that maybe the higher density up closer to Denton with lesser density less and less density as I get down there towards
Kitten and along Mattis. That's there might be some sense in that.
So I think uh the applicant has made a suggestion. Might be a good one.
I'll move we continue. Do we wanna do a date or date uncertain or
Well let's let's do a month. Mm-hmm. We can always do it go from there. But give us a chance to listen to what we've heard and figure out what we do tomorrow. So if it can be for a month that would be great.
No, I have nothing additional to add other than I mean I struggle with this one too, uh, for all the same reasons that you guys do. I would tend to lean towards um approval if if a suggestion like that, you know, the phasing of an in intensity kind of across the property came along, I think I would tend to lean towards approval or something like that. But Um nothing further than that to it.
Well we do have a motion. Do we have a second for purposes of discussion?
One second.
So we have a motion and a second. So now do we have
further discussion? So Barbara, when you come back, can you bring that um added condition for the enhanced crosswalk for
it and the data center?
Thank
you.
Prohibition. Prohibition.
Guidance for the applicant on whether you want them to have emergency access to kitten or not?
I mean I I think we
I mean is it I think it should be there. Yeah, I don't know if uh additional input from fire is appropriate now or not, if it's more appropriate for the for the site plan portion.
Again, I understand the residents concern that it could be flipped, but you know uh as uh Mr. Goldstein pointed out. that uh it's very very difficult and nothing's impossible anyway. So it Yeah. I think a gated emergency access
makes some sense. I my first thought was no, leave that as the park there. But I agree if there's a fire on the south end of that project or s if somebody's having a heart attack or a stroke on the south end of that project. They probably ain't gonna make it. by the time EMS gets to them and then gets 'em back goes all the way down to the south and goes all the way back to the north to get back out. That's a long way.
I think just to clarify for everybody here that emergency access only is controlled by a gate that only emergency personnel can open, not just anybody else.
I mean I
Just say that you know, th whether or not you know it, there's still a demand for equestrian Size lots. Yeah yeah. We don't have a big supply of that available.
Well the reason I asked for input on that issue is because if you want them to have emergency access it's gonna affect their plan. I yeah.
Yeah, I I
understand that.
Well, you would probably design a park around the access, but You could, but they may not, but
if you go look at the parcel maps. Okay. Tip. the parcel was secured for the purposes of access. It's not it wasn't that parcel was secured for the purposes of getting access from kitten to that property because that eight hundred plus acres that is the former hay farm. Is a parcel that did not go all the way to Kitten Trail, so
Right.
But I'd encourage you to think about You know, what's the character of that area? These are people with Horses. And goats. And You know. Some nice upscale equestrian stuff I bet they're not gonna have a bunch of people objecting to.
That's why I tend to agree with you, Mr. Moody, with the uh you know the closer to the acre lots as opposed to trying to just concentrate lower density towards the edges or this in the south and the east and the west. Um you know, I don't know if like I couldn't answer this question, but my guess is there's still probably some profit of profit available to the developer.
The problem is we've become accustomed now to 3,200 square foot lots, right? We act we actually had Mr. Hobby come in here when we had the 4G branch and said he was going to have executive home sites and they were going to be ten thousand. Square feet. I got quoted in the Tampa Bay Times that said I never thought I'd live so long to find out that 10,000 square feet is an executive home site.
Yeah.
A quarter of an acre? Come on. And get one of those at Regency Park.
All right, so we have a motion, we have a second. Any any further discussion? Just for one month.
Yes. Why do we
want to do that? Okay. All right. No no more discussion. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign.
Thank you.