PEG 24-7777 Little Road MPUD Habitat for Humanity 23 homes
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jun 20, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jun 20, 2024
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 28m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 61% of 184 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Good afternoon. Tammy Snyder, Planning and Economic Growth Department.
Which one are we that we're doing?
P.E. G's twenty-four seventy-seven seventy-seven. It's a zoning amendment from R One M H single Family Mobile Home District to an MPUD to allow twenty th twenty-three single family detached dwelling units on approximately poor four point three nine acres. It's on the west side, it's in in the West Market area on the west side of Little Road, about eight hundred and twenty five feet north of the West Pasco Government Center Citizens Drive and twenty nine hundred feet south of Ridge Road.
Here's the location map. That is the brand new VA center directly across the street. We've got another shopping center coming into the north of that.
Here's a context map.
The current zoning district it's R one M H pretty much all the way around it except for the commercial to the east.
Here's a master plan. Pretty simple.
And with that, we recommend approval with conditions to the BCC. I will note that there is a variation request. um to not interconnect to the west because of the residential and little um Mobile Home Park that we've got going on there. Um and they also want uh a variation from five twenty two point two, so that they Um, can have a residential only MPUD less than five acres due to the affordable habitat
for humanity quality of this project. And they also want relief from the strict enforcement of PM26 because it requires 40-foot-wide lots to be rearloaded and thus designed in a TND or in a 55 plus community. And due to the affordability aspect of this and the small size of the MPUD, it's requesting relief from that so that they can be front-loaded, but it will be required to. Follow all the other conditions in PM twenty six.
Oh see the side plan again.
That's the side plan.
The master plan, yeah.
A lot of detail there.
Just twenty three little lots.
Gotcha.
Gonna have some retention and They're not required to park because it doesn't have over twenty five watts.
Can I ask David a question? Sure. And it has to do with the PM twenty six thing. It
How do you deal with like and I'm gonna use the wrong term because the code Sets up alternative standards for land development code requirements and variances for zoning requirements, but this is a policy memorandum. How does that work?
I don't think that's a good idea. technically requires a variation or alternative standard, but I think Tammy's just including in the agenda memo to disclose that they're deviating from the policy memo. It's not I don't think they're legally required to, but she's doing it as a Courtesy to the Planning Commission and Board that So they know that it's a deviation from PM twenty
six. So then the question that I have Is can any other developer come in and ask for a deviation from PM twenty six?
In theory, yes. Even PM the PM twenty six memo even says that people can request. Now, I will will tell you that if it's it as a general rule, I don't think the board looks too favorably on deviations from PM twenty six, but They might make an exception for this project because it is An affordable housing project and
I'm not saying we shouldn't I I just it's just a curiosity question about how policy memoranda are enforced or not enforced or what their legal effectiveness actually is.
So it's basically a board direction for staff to implement certain requirements in MPUDs. But The board doesn't have to always follow that policy if they don't want to. Okay.
And staff uh and I think staff is correctly noting that it's a deviation from the policy so that it's not nobody thinks they're trying to slip it through.
I'm not not and not saying that they are. I just didn't understand how it worked.
Okay. Thank you, Gary. The applicant present.
You're busy today, aren't you?
Yeah, thank you. Shelley Johnson, [address removed], and I have been sworn. This is a habitat um community for 23 single-family residential units. Um just in case there's any questions, they um service the population that's the 80 percent AMI, um, and these are um owned in fee simple. They are not rentals. So if there's any other questions, we'll be happy to answer them.
Are these m are these mobile?
No, they're single family residential.
Okay.
Thank you. Ha ha ha. Okay. Anybody else? Have a question? If not. we have a motion
we we do have two folks signed up to speak on this one
okay
Uh Miss Valerie uh Ferreri, I think it says, I apologize, and Alan Daniel.
Mallory Ferrari, [address removed]. Calabash is
It's a horseshoe and calabash is right down there. It's all a dirt road. The dirt roads flood out all the time. We've always been told that we're only allowed one place per half acre out there. That part of the land is out there. We were not expecting nowhere near twenty-three bases. Sorry, I'm nervous. A little upset too. Um twenty three places. Eight or nine would be about enough. The traffic there's only one way in and one way out. If you're
going South you have to go down Emmons. All right, and if you're going north, you have to go we have to even go around to Blueberry to be able to cut across Little Road, get into the little turn lane where the VA is, and then do a U-turn around the VA. The traffic cannot handle twenty-three houses in there. It can't. The traffic would be so backed up, there would be so many accidents, there are no lights. We always thought they would put a light there. Plus, the fact that
We're all septic out there and Wells. What what's that gonna do to the the neighboring wells? You you i they could be hitting into our wells and everything. I would like this considered. I'm am nervous but Thank you. That's okay.
Thank you very much. Can we zoom in on this a little bit? I
We're looking on about three mo three thousand feet up.
Fred Heights. Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting nervous. Fall.
You guys go ahead. I was just gonna see if I could get there fast enough. Sorry, we're
doing it a little differently, so I can't.
So we'll just
go back.
And our taxes and the roads. What are they gonna do with the right-of-way?
Battery Ferrari, what are they gonna do about our dirt roads? They're holy enough as it is. You can't go down those roads over five miles an hour on either road. Um
We'll try to get some answers for you.
Thanks. Tammy Snyder again. Um I do know that part of their substandard road improvements, they will have to improve both Eamons and Blueberry Drive up to their project entrances. So that part will be taken. I am really not sure how many people from this development will want to go west. Mm-hmm. So probably just want to head out to Little Road.
So they're gonna be required to be paved, is that what you're saying?
Yes, sir.
And okay. Is there any deed restrictions that go with this M P U D? What do you mean? Well The applicant appears to be Habitat for Humanity, are these Are we being assured that when this is developed that this is going to be a habitat for humanity development and not just
sold off? They will be affordable, yes.
Well
it is to be clear.
Let me answer the question correctly. Tammy's right. There's a requirement that it be affordable below eighty percent of AMI. It doesn't necessarily have to be to be habitat that develops it, but they'd have to if they sold it have to be another affordable housing provider.
And that's locked in for thirty years, I believe, is what the condition says.
I'm not aware of any MPUD we were restricted to a particular owner. But we do restrict things based on affordability, which that's condition forty requires that.
So if somebody buys one of these units and then they resell it, they're still held to that same eighty percent AMI requirement.
Yes, for there's a thirty year affordability requirement.
Yeah, and there's restrictions placed on the homeowners too in order to qualify to even buy one of those habitat houses. No but I to
Jamie's question, I'm I'm curious about that too. So somebody that makes seventy or seventy five percent of AMA AMI buys this house. What happens if they sell that house? Must they sell that to somebody who else makes less than eight percent?
How's that assured? Five owners down the line, how is that assured?
We do make them record a land use restriction agreement. That ensures it will remain affordable. If the applicant wants to correct anything I'm saying they can they're welcome to.
No, that's correct. It'll be it's in our conditions of approval and we will have to do a LUM, so it continues down through the title. But it you know, that is the intention. It continue to be affordable, obviously, pursuant to the county, Brags.
So Maybe I don't know maybe you can answer this question or not. I mean past experience with Habitat for Humanity is they get the homes at little to no cost. They have to work to help build the things, but This is not the typical this doesn't sound like the typical Habitat for Humanity project here.
income restricting these homes. It I I'd I'd It sounds like they don't necessarily have to do what we know as a Habitat for Humanity project. They could just sell these lots to people and build houses and as long as they make less than eighty percent AMI. sell them as an affordable housing project, not what we typically know as habitat. And I'm not saying that's n a reason to deny it or approve it or one way or just curious.
Yeah, so uh good afternoon, um Commission uh Sean King, [address removed]. I'm the Chief Strategy Officer for Habitat for Humanity and leading this development. Just for the record, um We do these developments throughout our service area and our our community. It is different from the traditional single family residential infill that you may see in in neighborhoods. However, it is not different from anything else we do programmatically. Uh we're about to celebrate our 900th home
tomorrow. Uh we have a big celebration, so I'd Welcome everybody. It's going to be in Pinellas and Largo. But, anyways, throughout those 900 homes, one of the principles of Habitat for Humanity is a hand up, not a hand out. So the only difference between our homes and homeowners is that they are afforded and provided a 0% interest mortgage. They buy, they purchase the home from Habitat. To do so, they have to c qualify. One of the qualifications is income. one is willingness to partner and that's where really the sweat equity comes
in. So they go through 350 they have to do 350 to 450 sweat equity hours. That's building their home and in this development, their home their neighbors and and whatnot. They also have to do 36 home buyer education classes. Obviously heavy on budget and financing, being a good neighbor, community policing, everything uh maintenance. Um so we really are trying to set them up for long term success. If the home is resold, there will be a land use restriction that runs through uh
as Uh Ms. Johnson said runs with the land, so a Laura agreement. We also have the first right of refusal to repurchase the home. So if they do want to sell, uh they need to move, they need to downsize whatever, they have to come to us first. And generally speaking, we'll repurchase the home and then place another habitat homeowner in in that unit. Um, so that's kind of high level, uh, just for the record of kind of how our our our program works and and we're eager uh to develop this property.
I I can't remember is there any restrictions to how soon they can sell the home or having to repay subsidies or anything like that when they sell?
Yeah, so there's not any restrictions uh for how soon they can sell the home. What there are is there are restrictions in place about the equity. So we protect the equity 'cause the last thing we want and I think anybody wants is somebody getting in the home and then quote unquote flipping it, right? So Mm. For these homeowners, it's in all of our mortgage docs. There's what we call a shared equity provision, and they don't really receive any of the upside of the equity for at least ten years while they're in the home, and then it's incremental. After thirty years, that's the goal
of our program is is kind of intergenerational wealth and wealth creation through home ownership. So once they pay off that mortgage. free and clear and and they're out of the land use restrictions. Um we're hopeful that they've been a longtime community member. They have a little nest egg uh and and they can, you know, put that towards retirement, kids college funds, whatever it may be. Uh but that's really the the point of of what we do.
Can I add to that which is normally these projects also try to qualify for impact fee and mobility fee reductions and We impose requirements on them that if they sell the home for a non affordable price They'd have to pay back all those incentives we're giving them. So There's a financial reason that they don't typically don't violate those restrictions as well.
Right. So that kind of makes it makes that moot. For what it's worth, I mean I've I've worked with Habitat in the past. We've raised money for Habitat. It's a fantastic organization and it you do what uh you say you do. You you give people a hand up and and really give people chance of homeownership that never would have had the chance to otherwise. So thank you for doing the good work you guys do.
But to Mr. Moody's point. I I applaud Habitat as well, but they're not the only non profit that does this, so Hypothetically if they sold to a another nonprofit that does the same type of program That would not be inconsistent with the the conditions of the zoning. I understand.
Just a different animal we haven't seen yet.
Is there anybody
else?
Mr. Chair, so for the record we do have Mr. Alan Daniel that also signed up to speak. I I turned around and asked and it seems that he is not going to speak. Can you please verify that that's the case?
Mr. Daniel, are you in the present are you present?
Okay.
He doesn't hear you.
Okay.
I can't hear anything. I Really don't even know what's going on, I'm afraid.
Okay. Well are are you m Mrs. Daniel? Are you his wife or
Can you verify for us that he's not going to speak?
Yeah, um Valerie Ferrari. He can't hear you. I've worked for Mr. Daniel. Mr. Daniel has at least eight properties out there. There's another property owner, Steve Grady. He's uh he owns the upper part of Emmons. He's had a stroke. He can't speak. All right, but what we're what I'm we're we're I've worked for a Habitat too, by the way. I used to work for y'all.
Ma'am, this was not an opportunity for you to get up to make more comments.
But but the half an half acre thing, we're we're only allowed one place per half acre out there. As I said, unless it's been a chance to bother to
the question the Chair asked you was if you know this gentleman, does he want to does he want to
hear the conversation and you doesn't know what to say?
I did. He doesn't know what's going on because he cannot hear the conversation. Okay.
So he doesn't want to. Okay. Thank you. I did see a gentleman in the back though that raised his hand.
I
I know.
Sir if you gotta if you want to speak you gotta come out.
I didn't
sign up. It's fine.
Okay, well then we'll have you arrested.
Okay. Did you swear in? I did not. Okay, let's
get you sworn in.
Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the true selfie guy?
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you. Richard Gardner, [address removed]. I live actually across from Allen. I think. What they're doing is fantastic. The concern is the roads. They are dirt roads, they do flood out. Adding twenty-three homes on four point three acres. does seem like a little excessive. I don't know how big the homes are exactly. Um it's getting in and out. We put the vet center
across. You have AM vETs right there on the corner. Um what that causes is people coming in to drop off goods for Amvet. they don't even see us coming onto Emmons and there's almost accidents there daily. They pull right out. Um we thought a light was gonna go in there. Mega.
That would be our biggest concern is the amount of traffic coming in and out.
Okay.
Yep.
You know and you heard that they're going to pave those roads, right?
Yes, sir. Um but again visibility. I know personally when you turn right out of Emmons you can't go left. You have to go right and then come down to Citizens and take and do the UE. Um Right. Actually, Right there on that corner. They fly with those electric bikes. There you cannot visibly see coming out of there. Um
Okay. It is a concern for the roads.
Can you guys put the one foot topo contours on that Pasco Mapper map?
Should be natural features, I think. Or storm.
Natural features.
Yeah, zoom in a little. Emmons and Blueberry are Pasco County Roads. Calabash is a private
The county does come in and smooth 'em out with the lime rock, it rains and it gets bottles. I I welcome the It's lower than the surrounding neighborhood. It's just the people getting out onto Little Road. Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mm mm mm. It's higher than the little road. Many gay
in many places. No, but I the neighbors have talked about the road flooding and I'm gonna be asking uh If they've got to do substandard road improvements, are they correcting the flooding on the road?
I'm good with the map.
We can ask Essen to confirm, but my understanding is that nine oh one point four does require them to fix existing flooding when they make substantial road improvements.
You wanna ask us for there? Well I'd if he's a if he can confirm that that'd be great. Well can stamp it.
Addison, is that
you?
Hello?
So I do also want to say that the the their engineer of record is also on and I have elevated him just in case if he would like to speak as well.
Maybe he can answer the question.
Well let me just ask it a different way. Is the substandard road mitigation actual construction prop share payment?
In this case it's actual construction.
So it should help to
mitigate some of that flooding that you're talking about. Okay. Yeah, there's a retention pond across from MBET's um Uh just off of M and's right there, actually.
But he may want to ask the engineer if the if he's being elevated whether he's gonna accommodate the drainage from the substandard road improvements within his site. He probably knows that. Okay, you just asked him. Can he answer?
I'm here, John. Uh and uh Can you guys hear me? Is that Greg? Oh Paul.
Yeah.
Go ahead. You guys can hear me? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I haven't been sworn if you m if you need to do that.
Do you swear from the testimony you're about to give is the truth selfie God?
I do.
Thank you.
Um so we we are at the beginning stages of design. Um we do have a
I'm sorry.
Your name and address, sir.
Oh, Paul Emanuel Coastal Design Consultants uh seven zero two six little road. Okay.
We've we've got, you know, a conceptual plan that doesn't include drainage. One of our drainage ponds is right adjacent to Demons and we have another uh drainage pond that's um next to Blueberry. Um so there would be some runoff that would come from those roads uh But it that are are are a little located over our site anyway. They would naturally drain into that area. So I don't think we have a problem you know, accommodating that in in the improvements we're making to the road. Um I I do know that
those improvements do include um You know, we'll we'll look at the uh the structural numbers for the road that exists there today, um, move those to county standard all the way back past our entrance road. Those will be repaved and widened if need to be to meet county standard.
Okay.
Blueberry Lake, which is a swamp. Um it's in the Magnolia Valley. Water. I know I pay extra in my taxes. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah, there's a pump or something down off of Ridge Rowan slash and it still floods in my back. Um So again, if we elevate and we Move. I just want to be sure that it's not gonna flood more or something.
All right. I I'll try to help you and the engineer can answer for himself too. our county regulations and the water management district are not going to allow them to displace flood waters. Okay. So if they go in and they fill all the low areas in this site, and I expect that they will, They're going to have to excavate other areas so that the water displaced by that fill has some place to go without going on your property or on the road. And they're going to look to make sure
that flood elevations aren't increased in the area. But I'm looking, I think he provided a satisfactory answer as to that they would address the flooding of the roads with the substandard road mitigation. So
Will
there be wells?
John, this is S can you hear me now?
Yes we can. Is it be served
by County Water?
Water and sewers
having some mic issues.
They can't on forty
foot wide lots. They have to have water and sewer. Okay.
Confirm that Paul Manual again I do confirm that we are we are planning for water and sewer uh sewer through the county. Yeah.
Okay.
That should take care of the concerns about the wells. Okay? Yeah. All right. Thank you. About a light. That's that's gonna have to be traffic and all that. Number of accidents have to occur.
Thank you very much for coming up. Appreciate that.
Okay. I think S was trying to say something.
Yeah.
Yeah, David can uh sorry, I was having mic issues. I hope you can hear me now. Gotcha. Uh yeah. So uh even though I did not review the specific substandard road uh uh analysis, but our standard condition states that it that road shall be improved to county standards, which includes addressing all of those issues that you were just talking about. Flooding the the structural number of the road, the width, all of that.
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you,
Elfman.
Okay.
Yeah, sure. You're welcome. I'm sorry about the issue I'm having.
I think we've got all the information we need to make a decision if somebody will make a motion.
General, please. Geez, somebody gonna step up or I gotta
make all the motions. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second
Eugene. Any further discussion of the motion? Not all favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, signed. Okay.
Well
I'm it's up to you. I don't. Yeah, not a break. Thank you.
Just drink slow
chunk.
I'm sorry, go ahead David.
We're gonna do ten first though, right?