Mask ordinance enforcement responsibility changes
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The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 29, 2020
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The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 29, 2020
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What was said
Machine transcription of 1h 1m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 91% of 211 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Well, I did want to talk about the mask ordinance. Um And I do support masking at this time, but uh the one thing that I would I would like to see changed. is the um responsibility. I I believe it's not should not be the responsibility of the employer. But the responsibility of the person coming to the s to the business because I I think it's very difficult for the employer
to have to be the policeman standing at the door. So Um I think it's okay to put a sign on the door. Uh but Enforcement. shouldn't be on the and fine shouldn't be on the employer or or the business owner. It should be on the person walking in the door who's breaking the rules.
Okay. Anything Commissioner Starkey, anything else you'd like to add or
Nope, that's just the one thing I want to change. Thank you.
I apologize to interrupt again, but
It nothing's happening um in the other office. Well there you are. It's not on the dais. Not on the dice. It's happening lower. Somebody's mic is on and moving things around or
Yeah.
The M PR um BCC. Board without the dean.
It's it's Madam Clerk, go ahead and just say that louder. It's which one is it?
So what I see light up is N P R underscore B O C C underscore B O A R.
So whoever that is, I'll ask you to mute your microphone because it's causing
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, okay. Thank you so much. I will move on. Well, I think Commissioner Starkey, I I think we're going to continue with the conversation. If if if probably may take everything all up at once, if that's okay with you. So
I had trouble logging on. Um so I I didn't know what the agenda was. We were to follow this morning other than what we have published. Are we gonna talk about that today or are we gonna wait till tomorrow?
No, I think that's well since you brought it up, so we will talk about it. I'm just wondering if we should maybe get through everybody and then we can go back when it gets to Mr. Biles, then we can have the entire is that okay? Yeah. I have a feeling more is going to be brought up. So
okay.
Okay, thank you, ma'am. Commissioner Weightman. Yeah.
Okay. Commissioner Mariano.
My conversation will be the same as Commissioner Starkey's just with more detail as well.
Okay. So how about I I'll keep is that okay? I'll just keep going around then and then we can go back to this item. Is that okay with everybody? Yeah, since it sounds like multiple people want to talk about it. Um Mr. Biles. Um do you have anything in ad In addition to the mass conversation before I, you know, I I'll go all the way around and come back if so if not.
No sir.
Okay. Mr. Steinsteiner, do you have anything?
No, sir, except it's not a mask ordinance. It's an executive order.
Thank you, sir.
Okay. Madam Clerk, do you have anything?
I do not.
Okay. And I do not, so we will go back to the executive order conversation. Um So again, Commissioner Starkey, I'm gonna bring it back to you again so you can restate what you you said before, if that's okay.
Yes. Um I think it's important that that we uh stop the the the radical large spread we're having right now. Um I've had numerous conversations with doctors myself and done a little research, and I do think wrong if worn correctly, the mask can help. Um But um but I I think that the responsibility should be on the person and not on the business owner. Um to follow
this rule. to enforce this rule. So that is a change I would be interested in seeing in our emergency order.
So mm To help along, if I don't mind, Commissioner Starkey. Um Let's go to Mr. Biles and say where talk about the enforcement portion and then Mr. Biles and then we can go back to Commissioner Starkey and you can say what you're not. What concerns you have, if that's okay. Mr. Biles, read the appeal
It's um Paragraph fourteen. If you will and Again, the intent of the order is to seek voluntary compliance uh with the provisions. and educate and warn of the dangers of noncompliance. In the event, Voluntary compliance is not achieved, then as a last resort, a violation of this order is punishable by a civil citation by county ordinance citation with a maximum five of two hundred fifty dollars. Yeah, the mayor specified in the code of ordinance. And that code enforcement is responsible for the enforcement of this order
and The reason we Drafted it in this manner. Uh a couple of reasons. One. We didn't want to tell businesses That thou shall require everybody to wear masks. We won't w w The intent of the ordinance is that the business owners know their operation the best. And so they can go through their operation and determine where they have conflicts with respect to social distancing. And in those areas, then that would be the areas where the mask would be required. If you change that
over to the individu individual, that doesn't work anymore. Uh furthermore A code enforcement violation doesn't work if it's an individual that we're going to enforce against. Now you're turning it over to a uh you know, it it would have to be turned over to a sheriff's violation with was a misdemeanor or something to that effect. And we didn't want to go that that route either. And working with the sheriff's office, we thought that the best route would be to use code enforcement because then at that point we can use their education process. To get voluntary compliance.
And then Yeah. Then issue a warning if that was needed, but work with the business owner so that they understood what was going on prior to any type of citation being issued. And again, I understand that there's an issue with, you know, maybe that the only two or three people working in a business may be seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old and the challenge with enforcing That Yeah, you know. If somebody barges through and is belligerent and doesn't want to put on masks, we're not going to hold the business owner responsible for that. You know, we
we will we will I'll use the word apply grace in those instances. What we would like to do is business owners understand their operation. They understand where they would need masks, where they won't need masks. sign those areas and and do their best to try to enforce because this is a health issue, public health issue, enforce that in those areas where social distancing cannot be maintained. And then Again, we will work with code to to get the best possible compliance, but Yeah. We
do not necessarily want to put or create conflicts between either you know, code enforcement and a an individual or sheriff's officers in an individual just because they weren't going to wear a mask. And so that's why we wrote it the way we did. And we think based on our discussions over the last week, uh it seems like that's a really good tack to take.
Good. Thank you, Mr. Biles. Let me Yeah, I see Commissioner Starkey. Can I ask you a question, Commissioner Starkey?
I gotta learn how to drink water better, I guess. Um Is your concern? When a patron comes into a store And putting the burden on the store owner to enforce it or you're s is your concern that I let's say I'm gonna I don't want to name a store. So how about I have a big box store, right? I'm the manager and all my all my staff members are required to wear the mask. So is your concern
of me the employer with my employees or me as the employer with my patrons?
So uh for example, we have um a market. Um And our employees are wearing masks. Um, but we don't wanna have to station someone at the door and bar entry to anyone coming in without a mask. Um because we risk having um a fine or a business shutdown. Uh I we see where the governor has shut down some other businesses. And um And
you know we We're just every all these small businesses are just trying to stay afloat and now to put the burden of being, you know. trying to enforce this. It's a lot on a small business. So Um I I think the responsibility should be on the person and not on the business.
Are you okay with are you okay with being an employer? And the responsibility being you on you as an employer for your staff, your employees to wear it.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. So
you're 100% of the patrons then. You're concerned about the patrons.
Uh yeah, it's the it's the rule that people coming in have to wear a mask. And if my and for clarification, because I've seen it being enforced differently, and I and I would say I guess a store could Or small business can go further if they want. They could say anyone coming in must wear a mask. And I've I have seen that. I've I was in a couple stores over the weekend buying marine supplies and they had that that on. So I, you know, I put my mask on. My understanding. Is
You have to wear the mask when you get within six feet of someone because you can't socially distance. So I do want to make sure we're making that. We have that distinction. The the um
There was another point I wanted to make. Should have written it down. But yeah, I just think I just think the responsibility should be on the person and not on the store owner. And here's the other question I have. How many code enforcement officers do we have? And and this citation, if we can't issue citations right now. For all that Junk people have all around their homes and all the violations I'm seeing up and down in my district. Um Gosh,
there was a there was a store that I've called in on so many times on 19 that is a um a junk store. And they had their stuff all the way out to US 19. Um And obviously no one's doing anything about it. And I heard we can't do the citations because the courts are closed. So how does this work on enforcement of this issue as well? Just kind of curious on that.
Uh that's Mr. Bonus question. Yes, sir. So Commissioner Starkey. The intent for the next Week or two is to do education and volunte and m and try to get the business to come to compliance voluntarily and not Go down the route of You know, the code enforcement citation. So that's the that's the intent for the next couple of weeks. So
the businesses to be more What was the word you s used? What what was that word that you said? To get the businesses to be more
Compliant. I mean uh the the intent over the next couple of weeks is to continue to educate and and to do voluntary compliance, which is what code does best. I mean ninety three ninety four percent of the violations the code goes out to are resolved. voluntarily. You know, they do not result in citations. And so that's the goal. Get voluntary compliance. To the best of their ability. And again, the business owners know where they have conflicts with social distancing and they know where they don't. And so they can set up areas where okay, you need a mask in this area, but you don't need a mask in this
area. We do the same thing. you know, here in the government center, you need a mask in the lobby, but you don't necessarily need a mask in the individual offices and so so on and so forth. So You know, that's the intent.
Do you have any
other
questions?
I have so have we so I I'm gonna guess that we have not written any citations then.
I I haven't talked to him today, but I don't think so. The the intent was voluntary when we go out.
Uh Commissioner Todd Bailey, um acting assistant administrator for development services. We have not written any citations to date as we speak, but we have given a lot of educational warnings and just we have about twenty code enforcement officers out there. We have been have been doing commercial building sweeps. Um they are able to cover all of the commercial businesses in the county within Several, I think it took them three days in March when we did the first initial educational sweep. They have it well within their wheelhouse
to handle this. And um as as the need arises, we're addressing them and only um issuing educational warnings, but the businesses are complying with everyone that we have addressed.
Thank you, Mr. Bailey. Commissioner Oakley has a question.
Uh not necessarily Um Ever since COVID has started, we've been following the CDC guidelines. And in there it has been speaking of mask as recommended. I can tell you at that point in time from that point till we issued this order. We never got any full acceptance of wearing masks. And you'd go in businesses and probably less than half the patrons in those businesses, grocery store or
wherever, have been without masks. Since we've issued the order, the businesses I've been in and the signs on the door You're ex in here with a mask on me. And every w time I go into one of these businesses now, whether it be a drugstore or or your publics or everyone in there has a mask on. So the fact of it is the order is to make us do what we should take. responsibility each of us to
do anyway to protect ourselves. And and uh found that The reason for this order is so that We are protecting our employees, all of our first responders, and all of our citizens in Pasco County. And we feel at this time with COVID cases rising that this is what we need to do. None of us want to shut down businesses to keep people from being socially distanced in these. issue. So this is why it's like
it is. And I found that in these businesses where I see mask all the time now, people are abiding by it. And I think that's a good thing, very responsible. I do the same thing. If I go into business, I put that mask on. It's not too much to ask, even in a restaurant. or where you go in, if you put that mask in to go in a restaurant, you go in that restaurant, they're gonna social distance your party from anyone else in there. And within five minutes you take that mask off. And when you
leave that restaurant. and get it back to your car or whatever you want to get and you take that mask off. So it's only a small period of time when you go out to go in a restaurant. And restaurants, I think, are doing a good job. So The order the other day came out where the where the bar issue was Uh the real problem, because there was no social distance in out some of these bars. Uh and a young a lot of young people in a lot of cases and and young people have been on the rise. And that's
a big part of the rise that we're getting in the county for COVID cases. So I just want to make that statement.
So yeah, thank you so much, Commissioner Oakley. And I I'm I'm gonna jump in a little bit too, because I had um and I discussed this with Mr. Steinsleider before singing this out. Um, we sent out a packet to each one of the commissioners, county attorney, and um Mr. Biles and some staff. And it has a table of contents. So I just wanted to go through some of these things. You know, when this came about last week, there was a pretty strong response from a lot of
the people in healthcare in support of this of this happening. The first one you'll see in your pack is a letter of support from Advent Health. Um and with that Letter of support, there was an email and it says Commissioner Oakley want to take a minute to salute your collective decision to implement an ordinance. For universal masking in Pasco County, I wanted to share with you a letter of support. Please use as you see fit. Please let me know if you have any questions or we can show our support of county leadership in additional ways. Again, I don't I won't read through all
the letters, but Basically, um you can you you have it. And that was signed by um Bruce Bergum, CE SEO Acute Care Services, Eric Wangness. President and CEO of Advent Wesley Chapel and Amanda Maggart, President and CEO of Advent Health Dade City and Advent Health Separate Hills. There was also a letter from Baycare stating that masks should be worn at this time. And that was by the chief medical officer of Bay, the entire Baycare health systems.
There was also a statement put out by the state of Florida Department of Health, a public health advisory. Um which did state that um All individuals of Florida should wear face coverings in any setting where social distancing is not possible unless one of the following is act applicable, which is part of our order. Um FMA, which is the Florida Medical Association, put out a statement urging Um local municipalities and counties to adopt regulations requiring
the use of masks in public spaces. There is a number of one, two, three, four, five letters from physicians. And if you look at The letters from physicians, if you uh you can look at I'll pull Dr. Toddy on tax. He makes one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven. Uh I think it's about twenty-seven. references of evidence of support.
And I I mention that because when things are done, you know, these and I mean eight, nine days ago. I wouldn't been in support of a of a mass um executive order in Pasco County by any means. Things change and they change quickly. When you go from two, three, four, five cases a day to having three hundred and five in a day. That's a things change. We've been very, very good here in Pasco County, in
my opinion, of not overreacting to things. We did not do a state-at-home order because it wasn't justified at the time here in Pasco County. Obviously, we followed the governor's order when he did a statewide order. Um, we've been very, very thoughtful in how we move along. Um
And not over you know, and I s I'll say not overreacting to the past by any means. Um, and some of the things that happened around the state, I'll be honest, I didn't like people, they were politicizing it. This is not a we have not made this a political issue here in Pasco County whatsoever. Now we know some areas did, and I'm not naming any, but some places across the state, cities and counties made this political issues and made them clip political battles. We have not done that. And I know that we've we've talked about this numerous times, especially on the calls that we were on previously. where most
everybody on the commission was saying, hey, what a great job, you know, our health department's doing, what a great job our county administration is doing, what a great job FASA and his team is doing. And I know everybody said how much they appreciate what they're doing. And not one. Once have we had an instance where you actually had the Department of Health, where you had FEMA, where we had multiple hospitals, where we had multiple physicians actually reach out and say, We need you to do something. We need you to do something quick. So I don't think that's overreacting when you actually have the
Department of Health making a statement that something needs to happen. So I I tend to listen to the advice just because of my background of healthcare professionals, scientists, you know, whether it be physicians, epidemiologists, whatever it may be. Um, I mean, most of you know that I I do have a background in healthcare. So, you know, when there's a doctor's order, we always follow the order. And that's what we did. And we did it multiple times on a daily basis. We were following doctors' orders. We
could not go against that order. And we had to trust that physician and the decisions that they were making. Now we have a situation where you have the whole Florida Medical Association, which is thousands and thousands of physicians that are involved that are stating something had to be done. Um you even had some, again, I tend to listen to you know evidence-based research versus just politicians and bureaucrats. And I think that's what you should be doing. Um But
you do have some politicians out there, people in the political world, Senator Marco Rubio said on Wednesday, everyone should be wearing a mask to prevent the transmission of coronavirus at states across the county report troubling surges. Um he went on and said a lot more. Senator um Said Senator Scott also made that was Senator Rubio. Senator Scott's also um made statements last week too about um you're gonna have to wear a mask. You have to we have to wear a mask. He stated that. Um Even
Ron Governor DeSantis in his statement thinks that it should be something done locally, but his statement um we provide education. We did an advisory at the beginning of May and we've and we've advised that something that it's something that could make an impact. And he's leaving it up to local municipalities or counties. April case is 206, May case is 134, June so far, 1392. I would say we have a issue when it's come it's being obviously
spread out the community spread now. It's a difference from what it was before. We actually have community spread in Pasco County. Nobody's denying that now. If you deny it, I guess you're not reading the numbers very cl closely. Yeah. So I I ask you to read these letters. I'm not going to read them all. Take a look at what happens, what's coming from actual physicians. And from the Department of Health. And from Florida Medical Association, which is made up of physicians. That's all I have for now. Anybody
else like to add more? I see Commissioner Starkey waving.
Yeah, um I sent uh you guys a um a little uh well a very in-depth study that Stanford just did. They just published it last week on mask research. And um I think I will I'm not I'm not sure if I sent it to everybody, so I'll make sure everybody gets it. But you can just Google Stanford masks and it it really goes into uh Uh great discussion on these three-ply
masks and how good they actually are. Because I know some people say, well, these masks don't help. No, that's not true. And here's the scientific research to show that. So um I agree with you, Commissioner Moore. I think we've been very conservative in our. thoughtful process during this epidemic. We have reached a stage where we had massive uh spread that came very quickly. And I don't think it's any of our intention to have this. uh
emergency situation for a long time. We hope that our citizens will comply and help us bring these numbers back down to where we don't have community spread. It is not that difficult to wear the mask. It it really isn't. You don't have to walk around outside with it. I heard people, I got left saying they're gonna pass out because they're walking around outside with it. No, that's not what you need to be doing. You just You just need to wear your mask when you're in close proximity to other
people and you know. Keep your social distancing and remember to wash your hands. I do think we should improve on our messaging as a county. Um, I asked the uh administrator, uh, because I think he does a great job to do another um Some Facebook posts, Facebook Live or whatever you call those. Um I think we need some good PSA. Uh Um you know, one or two minute shorts
to go out and and explain ourselves better why we're doing this. Uh I think that would be, I wish we had done that before we did this order, but um I think Mike did one. I actually haven't even seen that one yet, but I think we need to be spreading them more. Um, and just being out there a little more. publicly about why we're making the decisions that we are. And I think our citizens also need to know. You know, we were in discussions about Whether we should
go to this order or not. And I know I gave the thumbs up. Yes, yes, I see the numbers. We need to, we need to do something to stop the community spread before it gets much worse. Because I think if we all behave Correctly, we can stop this before we get to um uh average percentage positives, you know, in and very unhealthy numbers. We've been hovering around two percent. Uh, which is great. But if you take the last week, I think we're thirteen, fourteen percent, which
is not good at all. So yeah, the long term average is low, but the what we're in right now is very high. And we want to get that down below five, back down to twos. So Or nothing if we can. So I s I support what we're doing. I just didn't like Uh the responsibility being the business owner. I thought it should be the The uh person walking into the store, but I'll I'll leave it there.
Thank you, Commissioner Starkey. I know I have Mike Napier on the phone too, and you made a good statement. One of the things I'm I'm scared what really, really scares me is that we go backwards. Some of these small businesses were hurting, you know, obviously when they got closed. Some of them never made it out. And I also besides protecting the health of the community, I think we need to protect the health of our small businesses out there. And personally, if again, if we go backwards and they and they go to a phase one or a total shutdown again. It's gonna be bad. Really, really,
really bad.
We don't need that.
We don't need these small businesses having to close again. Again, bars got closed last week. There was supposed to be a brewery, brand new brewery in Pasco County that was gonna open this Wednesday. Now I think they still are to sell growlers, but guess what? They're opening and you think they're gonna be able to make rent? Come on. There's no way. And we can't have that happen again for these poor, poor, poor business owners. I mean hospital hospital admissions Friday, 11 ICU 59 hospital, Saturday, 12 ICU 70 hospital, Sunday. Yesterday, sixteen ICU. A D hospitalized.
Mike Nepee, are you on the phone?
Yes,
sir, I am.
Okay.
And if I if I can, I can just provide a couple bits of information. Uh first, I I called and spoke to the Surgeon General this morning. uh just to get the latest before this call. And uh he reassured me and and wanted me to reassure the board the importance of uh Of the f uh wearing the masks and was Glad to hear that we were we had done that. Um, I do want to point out that we are at 1,909 cases as
of today. That means that 50% of our cases, 1,053 cases were all in just the last week. Staggering numbers. Commissioner Starkey mentioned that we're at uh uh almost 14.5% positivity rate. We're doing, we peaked at 1,674 test results coming back in. And we had 302 of those people of the 1672 that came back positive. So
we do have widespread uh uh cases out here. I would also like to mention, as the Surgeon General also mentioned, we have the Fourth of July weekend coming up. And if we we there is some evidence that the Memorial Day holiday is where we have a lot of people gathering. And that perpetuated the the cases. And if we don't put something in front of the Fourth of July holiday weekend. That we could see Uh I I'm I could have never guessed that we would have had a thousand in a week positive. We could see two
thousand a week if we don't do something to stop the spread. So uh I am in full support of what uh The um the executive order uh was put out and would continue to provide information to to you all to make good decisions for our community.
Thanks you thank you, Mr. Napers. Anybody have any questions? Mike? Mr is that Commissioner Mariano here? Yes, sir. All right, thank you, sir.
Thank you. I I guess you couldn't see me so um Anyway, I got I got a few questions as far as or a few comments to make as far as what's real, what's not real. I think we all heard Dr. Fauci probably a month ago saying don't wear masks and not good for you to wear. Um now there's a change. C D C I've got two doctors that responded to two of their patients asking about should I wear a mask, should I not wear a mask. One of them I saw late last night. uh that was posted and it says This is a
doctor to his patient. Follow the CDC recommendations for using a face mask. And it says first colon point. CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask. to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses including COVID nineteen. Face masks should be used by people who show symptoms of COVID nineteen to help prevent the spread of the disease to what disease to others. The use of face masks is also crucial for health workers. So Again,
it's not helping. those that don't have anything. And if you don't have it, um Yeah, it's not do anything. The other thing is when when I look at the mass sum data. Um When you look at the And ninety five mass. It protects in uh Stuff and ilfard trading that person. But with the exhale, it does nothing to protect anybody. So you may have it. you're gonna exhale it out and even if you're protecting, that's still gonna go through the mask and get out in the in the air. The cloth
mess, uh people say just don't protect anything. Um surgical mass, those are set up for sterile environments. So when you get the amount of particles, contaminants in the outside and indoor environments where people are clogging these mass very quickly. Uh the moisture can be trapped in there. You can trap it and actually become your own uh worst enemy, breathing breathing them min the monoc carbon monoxide in, but even bringing that v uh virus back into your own system. Having said that, I And I thought was I won't say perfect information,
but I thought it was pretty good. The Swiss policy and research. Uh it was it was a long document, had a lot of good information in it, and it talks about how the Swiss had not gone through all the same things that we had gone through and they actually did Uh fairly well will it with it. Um And I haven't heard anybody mention anything about the NBC News report last night that come out with like so many thousands of tests that were come out, they came out inaccurate. I know of one person that was actually tested once positive, once negative. So
what is the validity of these latest set of tests that are out there? I mean I I was watching Sixty Minutes last night and we talked about how maybe we allowed too many test kits to be sent out. that were not approved by the FDA and maybe th these are some of the kids that they were using. And now they gotta go retest all these people again to find out what the actual numbers are. So maybe part of the spike we're getting is is going up. Uh hadn't had hadn't seen anything about as far as desk coming up and Um and if that's been going on all this time, uh I haven't seen any any data
to that. I don't think Uh, we should be making it mandatory. I think if you take a look at what we could do. Um, make it the voluntary. I don't see how code reports are gonna go in and and enforce these things to different business owners. I don't know how we feel the authority. And frankly, I will say I don't really like the fact that When we had the discussion, I'll say my conversation with Mr. Bowser, I wasn't supportive of this, and then to see it all of a sudden get implemented. Uh, I think it's a should have been a board decision from the get-go. I I
think this board operates very well with discussions with information it gets out there, uh, to have our administrator make this decision, which is very uh impactful amongst all our small businesses that are out there that uh may may you get may may get people just because it's gonna be mandatory, you may give false protection uh hopes that are out there, knowing that this COVID nineteen can go through these masks and not gonna protect people as much as you may think. Um I would like you to discuss, Dan, again, about how you're going to go enforce this with code. And Commissioner Starkey,
I share you the same thing. I I see code violations all over the place. If they can't handle that, I'm going to go throw this back on them. And if not, I'm going to take the Sheriff's Department, get them involved in it. I mean, I think we get a lot of responsible people and I think everybody's paying attention to these numbers. I think if you give them a chance, you're gonna see a lot of people wearing the mask, but to forcibly put it and then put these bur businesses under extra burden to do enforcement of our our our code. or or even take our own code people off their regular duty to come back out. I mean you're gonna have 'em come out the next day, that night? How are you gonna make this work? Mr.
Bells.
So mm to commit Mike your respond to that.
Yeah, I see. Just the one thing I I would say, uh, Commissioner Mariano, I did see that doctor's orders. My guess is that was an old recommendation. That was a form letter that they were sending out. And you are correct. Dr. Fauci did indicate that several months ago, but Reviewing that record, I can't tell for sure it was a current record, but it is an old recommendation. And and I'd be happy to follow up with that physician on reviewing his recommendations on not wearing a mask.
All right, if I could then let me let me tell you about another doctor I told you I had two. Uh this is a note that I got from a person, Messenger. And it said Mr. Mariano. My young doctor told me one hundred percent of us will have been exposed to the COVID By this December. 70% of us will be asymptomatic. About 21% will have short-term symptoms. 9% will be need treatment. Not necessarily hospitalization. His parting words to me were, Get back to the gym and
no mask. And then she makes a comment, Yes I can't follow my own doctor's advice. This is current, not old.
So Commissioner Marion, can I ask you, because I you see the documents I gave you guys from physicians that were signed letters from the physician, what physician was that? What's that physician's name? Where's the letter?
I don't have the I I I don't have that information yet. I just got it as a as a blank thing from a person and haven't been able to uh ascertain all that. But the the point is there's definitely conflicting that's information out there. And for us to go but make a mandatory statement, we don't know what the actual facts are, even the C D C has changed their own position. Why would they change their position?
No, that's that's not true. I am looking I am looking at the CDC website right now. And the first thing it says is the CDC recommends that people wear face cloth, cloth-face coverings in public settings when around people outside of their household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain. Cloth-based coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others. Cloth-based coverings are most likely to
reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings. And then it says they should not, children under two should not wear them. And then it says evidence for effectiveness of cloth-base coverings. Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people. They go the whole front page of CDC is saying wear a cloth face mask. So I think you
might have there, Jack, is something very old. Well, because they are recommended. This is updated June 28th of 2020.
Commissioner Starkey, I don't doubt what's on there. I was actually on the side myself, went through the whole thing. I actually asked him a question too. I haven't got the response back. I said if the if I've got doctors that are saying to their patients, follow CDC guidelines by not to wear a mask if you're healthy. Then why did it change and when did it change? I haven't got a response back from that yet through their, you know, ask questions thing section yet. I agree. And remember the the keyword there is May. And from what I can see from the different tests that are out there, different things that are out there, and we
all heard different things. I'm sure we've got all lots of information from other people. But the air that can go through that, yeah, it's gonna stop the saliva, the droplets, the spit that may come out with someone. But the air that goes through, if that COVID virus is going right through that mask, it's not gonna protect that of the people beside it. It'll help on certain things.
That's not what the scientific data. It says and it says right here. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that caused COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows fake cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. And um that I one of the studies that they probably are looking at is that very, very good study that I sent you from Stanford
University that actually is showing that a properly made three-ply mask with a cotton poly exterior, a filter in the middle, and the cotton next to your mouth. You can breathe very well. Um, you don't get trapped oxygen in there. And it's they're saying it's better now than a surgical mask. So I think they've come out with a lot of data on masks because of COVID-19 that will change the face of medicine. So I I would be, you know, I'm really suspect when you get something
on the internet that has no backup. I mean, there's aliens landing, what? 9-11 didn't happen. There's lots of junk on the on the internet and I think you need to be really careful.
And Commissioner and Commissioner Starkey, that's why I'm trying to get all the information from all the sources I can and getting the backup one I can as well. And again, as you just said, if there's a better mass that's out there, I will tell you the people are walking out there with closed mass, surgical mass, and 95 mass aren't providing the same protection. That sounds like the mass that you're saying. So to expect people to have a false sense of security because they're wearing a mask on the person across from them when the d disease can still spread to them. I I just think it's you know, if we just get off mandatory. Strongly recommend. I
think we'd be in much better shape.
Well, Commissioner Marion, I'm I'm gonna go back to that article you stated of you were talking about on um NBC. And that was actually News Channel eight is what you're referring to. That was actually back from May. Um that was going around Facebook again yesterday. So that article is well over a month old. It's not new. That was in relation to the ones that happened in Advent, which we were all, which we were all told about by Mike Napier on the phone. month and a half ago probably. So that's not a new article. That is an old one. Um and so I you know, I'm just gonna say kind of
what Commissioner Starkey going back to her is I mean here's Why are these physicians, why are these hospitals Staying this. These are ones with their name signed to it. So I appreciate you said some physicians, show me a letter, show me a name, show me a signed letter from one of those. These are all signed letters. We could we could there's a hundred more physicians or two hundred more or five hundred more that would do the same thing and say the same thing. So I mean, you know, I mean Kinda
gotta bring something that shows proof. That they're actually stating that. Three hospitals, three hospitals.
Actually more than three hospitals because Baycare is a very, very large system. So multiple hospitals and multiple physicians. I mean I talked to an ER doctor. And he went from his hours being cut down, which all the doctors did for a long time because of the surgeries and stuff, to he can't believe how many COVID positive cases he's seeing in the ER now. I mean it's really bad. So I know Mike talk about I mean you've got When you've got it. You're doubling almost
every day hospital emissions in ICU cases. And that's what we were all worried about. Remember the whole time we were talking about before, why we did not. do a stay-at-home. Why we did not do a stay-at-home order? Because those hospital emissions were there, the ICU um filled beds weren't there. And now it's doubling every day. Listen, I again I just follow science. I follow physicians. I'm you know and and I think, you know, if we if we leave it up to politicians and bureaucrats to to be scientists and they're not or be physicians and they're not, we're
getting ourselves in a world of trouble.
Mr. Chairman Mariano. Um Hillsboro had passed one. And they're getting sued now. Do you think that we're gonna be looking at the same lawsuit coming up?
Well, I think if you talk I think our order is different and how it's done and what they're focusing on is different than what how um this order is written. Mr. Biles or Mr. Stein Sutter, I think can to can speak to that. Um it's not written in the same manner as Durse, and where I think that suit maybe be focusing on. I could be wrong, but I don't know if Mr. Steinson or Mr. Biles wants to uh respond. Mr.
Chairman Mariano, I'll be happy to respond. Ours is very similar to Hillsborough County's.
How it was adopted in that respect. We are not at all like Hillsborough County just because we don't have um an epg that is um
The way theirs is constituted is different than Right. Yeah. Uh The Sabatini, Representative Sabatini lawsuit that he has filed against Hillsborough, Leon, and Orange.
And and the one that was filed against Hillsboro, the that does not go into as much as how it was adopted. Um But it's also very similar to the lawsuits that were filed against Alachua. Um earlier this year. And the cases the the orders which have come out of the lateral litigation uh have upheld their mask ordinance. Granted it's it's Process.
Uh But the initial emergency injunctions that the lawyers took against, two different plaintiffs took against Olachua County, both in federal and state court were found were the emergency injunctions were not put in place. Um so will you draw A challenge. Probably. Um I is am
I comfortable with defending it? Yes.
Okay. Uh to give you a little little answer back to as far as where I got the information as far as the doctor's orders and I'll just read you what the quote came in. I'm not sure what Hudson was from. My cousin in North Carolina posted it last night. I can try to get a hold of them and find out. It has yesterday's date on it in their upper right corner. So I'll I'll I'll I'll dig the information out as best I can for uh at least for tomorrow's meeting anyway. But I will say that I really again back to having our administrator make the decision as opposed to the Board of County Commissioners. I I don't
think this is the right way to do it. I think we should have had a COVID meeting, if nothing else, to talk about specifically this topic before they actually pull the trigger.
Yeah.
Well, I mean I can appreciate your statement. We do have a policy where we give the County Administrator, um the powers under an emergency order. Um to do those things. The reason being, and if I'm not correct, Mr. Steinsteiner, is so you don't have to wait on certain things, whether it be a this circumstance or or hurricane. Where something needs to be done very, very fast. He does have that. He or she, depending on who the administrator is at the time, has that um obviously under our policies. If
you want to change policies in the future, that'd be something we'd have to have a long discussion about, obviously.
You're correct. Jordan and that this is you are actually. In most case, the ordinance does allow the board to delegate that authority to the administrator, which they did in this case. It's really no different than the administrator issuing a curfew order or an evacuation order during a hurricane.
And again again back to I didn't say he didn't have the authority to do it. I just didn't like that he did it. I think it should have been done by this board. We had all these weekly COVID meetings, two, three times a week. Uh we ended those and then to go all of a sudden have a change. This should have been done at a COVID meeting. We could have at least discussed it, gone through it. And and dissect it before uh imp impull and trigger.
Okay. Com Commissioner Weightman.
If I could I'll be brief. Um and I I told you.
Your mic's off. There we go. Yeah.
Can you hear me? I'm trying to use the one over here because I think the other one was the issue. Um I totally support Mike and Napier and uh and and Andy and Dan and their team with this. I You know, obviously we see contradicting things on everything, but I've got to go off our team and what they're telling us. And I I respect the heck out of Mike and and he's been very conservative through this whole thing. So when he said that we need to do something, I get it. Um I do agree with Commissioner Oriano. We really shouldn't be making this. Mandatory because Code can't even do
their job as it is now. I can tell you, like this morning I went to a restaurant and had breakfast at 7:30. Um You know, and this is where we didn't do a great job rolling it out. Um, we definitely could have done a better job. I know I've spoken to Dan about that. And I know Commissioner Starkey brought it up, is like the exemptions. You know, if a business, including a restaurant, can operate under CDC guidelines, which they can, you really don't have to wear a mask to walk into the restaurant. to get your table. You can still stay six feet. I just know I personally saw folks walk away today upset.
Didn't want to use the establishment. I don't like to see that. Um Uh did I have an issue wearing a mask to go to the table? No. But again, I think we've got businesses like the business I was at this morning and others, publics, for instance. You shouldn't have to wear a mask in publics. You can follow CDC guidelines and publics. All the employees wear them. Um this is where it's it's kind of catchy to me because. Again, I get it. We we don't want to see more lives lost due to this, but Um Again,
I think if businesses can abide by the CDC guidelines, which are pretty specific. Um that that's the only issue I have. And like the masks, I know we're given one mask a day. How long is that mask really good for? You know, I know the ones I have my officer made in China. I assume they're good for one. Use. And that's it. Mr. Biles or or Andy or You you would need to come up to the mic, Andy. But I just curious, like if we're only going to give somebody one mask and it's only good for one day, that doesn't make sense. So I'm just asking the question. So.
No sir. The mask or cloth masks that are being issued to all county employees and the are good for 15 uses. They are washable. So you can use, excuse me, for a period of 30 days with 15 washings.
And these are the same ones we're giving to the residents.
Yes, the Haynes, we're actually we're giving Hanes, that's a different brand, and that's the same way. They are actually the same usage.
I just I've had people ask me again, those are questions again. The CDC guidelines. To me, it's pretty simple. I know before businesses didn't necessarily have to wear masks, but most of them did.
I
you know, so
So with those masks, when we hand them out, when the businesses come and pick them up to distribute to their own employees and their customers and the public if they're a point of distribution. They're given a form sheet that they actually take back with them and it describes everything about the mask, the usage of the mask, and it gives great detail for it.
Mr. Allen?
Yeah, please go ahead.
Uh just something else I was reading from previous notes about looking at masks. And it says mayoclinics.com. N90 N95 masks don't prevent the wearer from spreading the virus. Filtered air is released when the wearer exhales. That's for the N95 masks. Just a little clarification.
Yeah. So I guess that question, why do physicians and surgeons wear them in and during surgery if they feel it's gonna something's gonna get spread? I would ask that to a surgeon and see how they would respond. Cause that does that mean they shouldn't your your s does that statement mean that what you not what you said, sir, but what you read. basically s tell surgeons they don't need to wear mask during surgery now?
That may be a surgical mass is different. uh than this N ninety five. I don't know if the surges where the N ninety five is, but again, it protects the air coming in. It doesn't protect the air going out.
Well, remember one of the concerns with CDC in the beginning and and and that was the health, I think Mike, you could jump into the health department was. They were there was the fear that the healthcare providers would not have masks and have face coverings and they were asking, and I think we all remember that because we had those conversations on those calls to save them for those healthcare professionals because there wasn't it was so unknown if there was going to be a really quick outbreak or not, if they were going to need them. Um, but that's I think that's why uh I don't think that's why C D C is one of the
reasons they stated they They changed and said people should be wearing them now. Again, I listen, I mean
Can we see more?
Can last Yeah, well yeah I'm sorry, let me just finish that sentence if you don't mind. I know it's we've been very, very conservative in how we've done these things and we continue to the health department has, Mike has, our team has, Dan, Fossa, everybody's been very, very thoughtful in this. But again, I I tend to lean towards positions and what they're asking and what they're stating. Especially when it's evidence-based. And they don't make statements unless there's it's evidence-based.
They go to school for a long time. So I would I'm more apt to listen to somebody that's gone to school for eight, twelve, sixteen years, depending on what their specialty is, um, when it comes to these. These uh issues like this, especially again, you saw on some of the things they sent to us. I mean, the letter from um Both advent and uh daycare. Takes you to well, at least the one from I think both, but maybe maybe it was just Advent, takes
you to the the Lancet, which analyzed 172 studies from 16 counties. I mean 16 countries. Sorry, I said 16 counties, I apologize. 172 um observational studies from 16 countries. And that's where they're getting their data from. So it's not on a whim.
But but think of those studies. Those studies aren't pure. Pardon me?
Go ahead, what'd you say, Commissioner?
If they're looking at studies that others have done, it's not a controlled scientific experiment, is what I'm telling you.
I think you need to read those studies. The ones that the ones that these physicians sent, in the in the eighteen or so that one of the physicians sent, I would I would Behavior. I do my due diligence. I mean, so I mean I would ask you to maybe read the same thing and then Come to a conclusion after that.
I will do so.
Commissioner Oakley. Yeah, I'm on I'm on the Mayo Clinic website. where it talks about how the CDC did an about face. And that and they are recommending that you wear masks on the Mayo Clinic website. Um, and they go into um each kind of mask and why it's good and why it's not, but um And they tell you how to wear it correctly. So the Mayo Clinic is suggesting that you wear the masks.
What does it say about the filtering of a cloth mask?
What it says is uh on an N ninety five mask, the kind that has that little um filter that allows you to blow out, it's not good because you're if you're symptomatic and you don't realize it and you're out. Um you could be um blowing out. That the uh virus, but um, on a cloth mask, it says cloth masks should be worn in public settings where social distancing measures are difficult to maintain, such as in grocery stores and in especially
in areas of significant community-based transmission. And then it goes into some pointers. Don't touch your mask. If you accidentally touch your mask, wash or sanitize your hands. Remove the mask by untying it or lifting off the earloops. Wash your hands immediately after removing your mask and regularly wash your mask with soap and soap and water in the washing machine. It's fine to launder it with other clothes.
Okay, thank you, Commissioner Starkey. I'm fearful. I'm fearful if these businesses, I would hate, hate, hate. It would be just the worst thing in the world if they had to go back to one. stage one or they or they actually institute another um stay at home. That would be detrimental. It would it would just put so many people out of business. I don't think they can handle so many of them, especially the small ones around here, they can't handle it again. And if there's I mean, I if they're saying it might work, I don't.
Yeah.
Any further discussion? I mean if we're gonna do anything it's today's the day and not tomorrow. It was already brought up. We're not moving this on to tomorrow, so
I'll make a motion. We changed the verbiage from mandatory to strongly recommend.
I wouldn't mind seconding it, but there's obviously three of you that are in favor of keeping it. So I'm I'm not gonna second it. But I but I do agree with Commissioner Oakley. It's just tough. It's tough on those business owners for us to go out and try to cite them. I know we're not doing that, Dan, but. You know. I think the verbiage could have been a little bit different.
So I did not hear a second. So the motion dies without a second.
Anything else that we'd like to bring up, Commissioner Second? Anything else about this item that we're discussing now?
I'd just like to thank the the board members for talking about it intelligently going through and getting the information out there. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner Oakley.
There is one more thing on that. Yeah, there's one more thing I did not like in the emergency order. That is the number. Yeah, there's a phone number on there to kinda For everybody. And I I don't know. That made me I got some comments on that and I thought, well, I'm not sure if that was necessary that we Turn everybody into uh enforcers as well. So I wouldn't mind taking that out.
Okay. Um it t explain okay, Commissioner Starkey, so there's a number
There's a phone number.
The f it was the code enforcement number, if I'm not correct, right?
I don't know. I don't believe Water has a phone number in it.
Okay. So the order itself does not have a phone number. The order itself, Commissioner Starkey.
viewing it, but he does not see a number in the
Okay. Commissioner Moore, this is This Dan, uh the The FAQ that we put out has the customer service phone number on it. So that if people want to call with questions or have you know questions about how it's being implemented or want to get uh a comment or complaint, if you will, to code, that's a that's a route to do it.
But it's not in the order, it's in the frequently asked questions that we put out.
Okay. Well then I'm okay with that.
Okay.
Did you have anything else to add, Commissioner Starkey?
No, that's okay if it's in the f FAQ and not in the order. I just Um I did receive some comments, maybe you guys did too, about um Turning other people in, which is A little A little harsh for me, but if it's only in the FAQs and it's for them to get get get more information, I think that's legitimate.
Thank you, ma'am. I I think what um County Administrator Biles stated earlier was, I mean I think it was Mr. Bailey too, um what they've done so far is really focused on education, education, education, because you know there's the circumstances, for example, and I'm just gonna use uh an attorney's office as a great example, you know. So they have separate offices. They can maintain six-foot distance. They're not required to wear them, for example. There's some retail establishments that don't
have many customers. Even though they do retail type businesses, but they're more of a production-based business that has a retail desk or something. They're able to maintain it. There's not maybe just a few customers coming in day. From my understanding, they they would just have one to they put one on when they have that direct interaction with that customer if they're doing a point of sale or something. Is that correct, Mr. Biles?
That's correct. That's the reason we wrote it the way we did so the business can look at their operation and make their calls to where they think they're gonna have conflicts. With respect to social distancing and in those areas, you know, it's have you their employees and our customers wear masks. But that's why we did wrote it the way we did so that the the businesses could to make that determination because every one of them was a little different. And we wanted to give them the ability to do that.
I know on my side of the town. My side of town, my side of the county. My side of the county before there was any type of executive order. uh every eating establishment I ever walked into, every every um server or host or hostess was um already wearing them.
Patrons mark that.
Yeah, not the patrons all obviously, but uh but um I know the uh staff they were. I actually went in a few places like Commissioner Starkey said before this took place too, and they actually had notes you weren't allowed in actually unless you were wearing one. Quite a few, actually. On the east side of the county. I think Costco was one too, right? Wasn't Costco doing that too? I don't have a Costco membership, but I heard that.