PDD-217530 Wesley Chapel Lakes MPUD zoning amendment

2:09:40Fabulous. Thank you so much. So the last item is P13 on your agenda. It's item PDD 217530. This is a zoning amendment for Wesley Chapel Lakes Master Plan Unit Development District. I do want to read a clarification into record. The owner of the uh of the property was incorrectly listed. It should be Clearwater Bay Associates, Inc. And uh before you today is a substantial modification request. to uh propose entitlements for vacant parcels within the master plan unit

2:10:11development district. So we're looking at this is a large master planning and development district, and the location map shows the north node, the central node, and the south node.

2:10:24So the Wesley Chapel Lakes MPUD DRI was proposed to have a mix of uses. While much of the single-family residential development is substantially built out, the parcels that surround the major intersections within Meadow with Meadow Point Boulevard through the development remain vacant.

2:10:42The intersections included in this modification are Meadow Point Boulevard and the North Node, which is the south side of State Route 54, the Central Node, which is State Route 56, the South Node, which is northwest and northeast corners of Beardsley Drive. The North Node proposes retail office and multifamily, Central proposes conservation with eas with with an easement or within an easement, retail office, multifamily, hotel, and convention meeting space, and the South Node proposes

2:11:13conservation, townhomes, multifamily, uh adult congregate living facilities or ACLFs, self-storage and local retail uses.

2:11:24The total entitlements overall are not to exceed 420,000 square feet of commercial retail. 150,000 square feet of office light industrial, 700 hotel rooms, 850 townhomes or multifamily apartments. The applicant is also requesting following variations from the land development code. Section 907.1.3 on-site parking reduce the count for from 2.25 to 1.9. 907.1. D.2.

2:11:55On site parking, reduce the size from 9 feet by 20 feet to 8 feet by 18 feet. 526.3.8.1, the sale con of consump or consumption of alcoholic beverages to have a thousand uh to not to not have the thousand-foot waiver from the school. 805.6 post-development wetland buffer restrictions allow for a reciprocal easement and maintenance agreement.

2:12:22The project is not within the multifamily moratorium boundary. They're not proposing to increase trips that are this is exempt from timing and phasing. Concurrently, the applicant is proposing to amend the future land use map of the inter at the intersection nodes to PD. There's a comprehensive plan amendment, C PAL 20 uh paragraph. S um Parenz eleven. And uh the proposed MPUD request has been found to be consistent with the Pasco County Land Development Code, Chapter 400, Subsection 402.2, Zoning

2:12:53Amendments, MPUD, and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan.

2:12:59This is the master plan. It's it's a very large piece of property, as you can tell. And uh the Planning and Development Department recommends approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet. And with the correction of course to the name of the uh um applicant or the owner.

2:13:17Pennys, just to be clear, the distance waiver is not just for a school, it's also for parks and places.

2:13:22That's correct. I apologize. Yes, it's for uh parks, school um K through twelve uh schools and uh places of worship, places of religious worship. Thank you.

2:13:35Thank you, Denise.

2:13:36Thank you.

2:13:36Any questions for Denise? Yeah,

2:13:38I got can you go back a couple of those parking space widths?

2:13:43Eight by eighteen, I think it was.

2:13:45Sorry about that. Give me a second.

2:13:47Yeah, it was sh right there. So the width is I guess it's one foot less.

2:13:54One foot less by two feet less.

2:13:56Yeah. And what's the reason for the applicant wanted to reduce it? And the only reason I'm saying that is just I I don't know, it's just when you come in I I hate those tiny little parking spaces.

2:14:09Is there a real need for that or is just

2:14:11Yeah we'll have the applicant explain that to you but I do want to also mention before we forget that we do have um a person on WebEx to speak on the matter as well. So I just want to make sure that the Planning Commission uh n uh notes that Miss uh KARP is or Kerp is on the on Webex.

2:14:27Thank you, Denise.

2:14:34Barbara Will Hight for the applicant. I can answer questions or we can listen to um the person that's on WebEx and then then address that if that might be more efficient.

2:14:44Thank you, Barbara. Okay.

2:14:58So we have our technical person just walked away. Um so if we can please uh promote Ms. Kirp who's on WebEx to speak. She is perfect. Ms. Kirp, would if you would please uh provide your name for the record and your address and whether you've been sworn, please.

2:15:19Great, yes. My name is Kathleen Kerr and my address is [address removed] and I was sworn. Um I Here today to Just Make sure I understand and also voice my opinion based on them the memorandums that I've seen for the development of this area. I've lived here for almost two years in

2:15:50my development of the Whitlock Village. I am a proponent of the development of the north and the central nodes, and I believe that is the majority of the acreage. My concern is for the south node. That's 37 acres that's divided between the west side of Meadow Point and the east side of Meadow Point at the Beardsley dead end. or the Meadow Point Dead End at Beardsley.

2:16:21You know, it's a small amount of land. It's a residential area. This is not, you know, it's 1.8 miles from State Road 56 down to Beardsley. Um and with that distance it becomes really residential here except for the um clubhouse that I would like to see it stay residential or just on the documents today it also had conservation um which

2:16:51I had not seen previously. So I'm I'm asking that it just that you take it into consideration to restrict the entitlements for the salary node only to residential um Then to limit the the Business growth. that would fall within the residential portion of this community in Meadow Point. So that's what I would like to say and ask for your consideration today.

2:17:22All right. Thank you.

2:17:24Thank you.

2:17:25Any questions? Uh

2:17:28Any person on Webex? Any questions? Nothing.

2:17:34Again Barbara Will Hype for the applicant. Um the applicant is the master developer of this project. Um Lee Arnold is on WebEx. He couldn't be here today. We also have Steve Lannon, Diane, and Steve Henry. As my client likes to remind me, he started this project when I still was in high school. I know that was only a few years

2:17:52ago,

2:17:53but this is not the beginning of this project. This is the end of the project. And this actually is not just what we're doing, this MPUD amendment. We actually are this is a DRI, a development of regional impact. With lots of old thinking and brain damage and lots of money that goes in to try to administer a developer of regional development of regional impact. But what we've been doing in the county is trying to streamline the approvements, excuse me, the entitlements, the approval approval documents, as we get to the end of these big projects, um, 30,

2:18:2340 years later, whatever it is, um, to try to get the get the conditions to match what w how we have them reading today. So this is a rewrite of the conditions that matches the rest of the projects and a real improvement in the paperwork. So we're We amended the comp plan, this body and and recommended approval of amending the comp plan to get these nodes, get the proper land use so we can do mixture of uses. Um and we're amending the MPUD which you have before you and we

2:18:53also have a DRI resolution which doesn't come before you which comes to the board. So I just want to put in context that what you're seeing is not a new project. The vacant property in this project is along three nodes, one at 54 and Meadow Point, one at 56 and Meadow Point, and one at Beardsley. It just so happens that the developer has held those properties and not developed those. So, but all of those nodes are approved for commercial today. What we've done is

2:19:24is added. the ability, um the DRI has always approved a whole bunch of different uses, but the ability to do residential at those nodes. So the so the node that uh Mr Miss excuse me, Ms. Kirp um has um mentioned to you is the South Node and it's approved for commercial today. But what I can tell you is that it's approved for C one. Today. And so the documents that you have before you would allow C2 at that dist at that node. So I think the solution is to limit any

2:19:54residential use, excuse me, any commercial uses to the C1, which they're allowed to do today. And we're willing as an applicant to make that change. So we will not be changing the commercial uses that are allowed right now under this project um at that node.

2:20:07Yeah, and what about the parking place size that was mentioned?

2:20:10I am certainly not an expert in parking size, but I do have had this come up before. It's just a more efficient use of land. Um a lot of codes actually, this that is their minimum size. Pasco doesn't have that as their minimum size. And if I have any teammates that knows m that know more about parking spaces than me. um and have anything more that they can add and give to you, but that's my understanding of the parking spaces. We're trying to reduce the footprints of parking. I mean that's really what we're trying to do. Allow a mixture of uses, share parking.

2:20:41Um that's what the all the conditions are trying to accomplish. Which I can hear Commissioner Starkey telling me all the time, every time we show her a a plan plan with lots of parking in impervious she says we just don't need all that barking anymore. We're gonna Uber from now on.

2:20:55Exactly.

2:20:57I I have one question.

2:21:00Well you gonna Is Mayor gonna address the barking issue? Yeah, let's let's see yeah.

2:21:06Good afternoon. My name's Diane Fenneck, actually.

2:21:09I'm sorry. I did that too, didn't I?

2:21:12Sorry. I got it a lot. Um I'm work with work with Hike Design. I have been sworn. Uh the parking issue is primarily To address the multifamily that that would hopefully be developed within the area, any kind of multifamily units, we we customarily ask for reduced parking within their parking areas. Also, there is the fact that there will be, we're hoping for uh combined parking amongst all

2:21:42the other uses. So uh it's a customary request.

2:21:49Even though you hate those small spots. Sign up for Richard.

2:21:52Well can we just ask Brad, did your team weigh in on this? I mean 'cause you all review the site plans where this is usually an issue.

2:21:59Yes, we will. Uh we'll review this as site plan to make sure that it all works. But the uh essentially what they're saying is correct. Other jurisdictions do have a smaller minimum size uh parking. uh than Pasco. Pasco's is a little bit large. Uh and in these areas the intent is to create a mixed use with some some shared parking options and other things in this area and it's a way to reduce the overall footprint of parking when you have mixed uses in an area.

2:22:28There there also is the anticipation uh when you have the uh Denser areas with multifamily and mixed uses that you're also going to have public transportation available. And I do know that during the review of the MPUD that uh we did get a uh response from uh Pub Pasco Public Transportation and they actually asked us if we would like to have uh bus stops because they were more than willing to put them in whenever we were ready.

2:22:57Yeah.

2:23:00Maybe this is for you, Brad. The uh What do you do with this multifamily stuff now? Are you Are the developers putting in electric chargers?

2:23:12We don't have any requirement for that, but we do recommend that. Um we recommend that for most places uh where there's gonna be any length of stay, such as offices uh where you might be there for an entire work day or uh other areas where you're there for an hour or more that you could get a charge, a reasonable charge. So uh we do make those kinds of recommendations but we don't have any way to officially require it right now.

2:23:38I mean I can see that coming and and it's gonna be You know, some of us have have need for that at all.

2:23:46I can add Barbara Willhead, I can add I was on a team call with an apartment developer and they were talking about all about the location of their electric charger just this week. So they are, you know, how they're located and the best way for them to have movement so you can plug in and not trip over a curb or whatever it is. So I think there are coming, so pretty cool.

2:24:06The big problem is when the non-electric vehicles park in our spot.

2:24:19Right. Let me just make one comment though. There's really two different requests here. There one is to reduce the overall number of spaces, which the concept that it's mixed use and

2:24:31reduction in the number of spaces, but I think the question was Are you comfortable w with the reduction of the size of the space? 'Cause that's a slightly different issue than the number of spaces. W I mean y the justification you were giving for the number spaces makes sense. It's mixed use, transits available, all that stuff, but Are you comfortable that a standard vehicle can fit in an eight by eighteen space? I think that was really the The question that from the Planning Commissioner

2:24:57So yeah, there there are two parts to that and yes, uh I did mainly address the shared mixed use aspect of it and and parking reductions. We do generally give a reduction from our code. Our code typically overparks certain things. So yes, we're comfortable with the reduction in the total amount of parking that they're seeking. As for the the size of the spaces themselves, that really depends on the design. So when we see this, ultimately we'll look at the design and say if you're going to use this size space. Then it

2:25:27needs to be done in a particular way. For example, we have a number of places that have larger buffer areas and they're able to use essentially a curb uh as a wheel stop and the front end of their car is over grass. So technically the parking space is 18 by 18, but they have plenty of room for the two feet or more of the front of the car. uh to still fit in that so they can still fit the same size vehicle in that space. So there's lots of design options and engineering things that can be done to make those things work.

2:25:58But we don't see that until the end. Uh well

2:26:01I guess that's the root of my question here is because you're making it sound like you want to evaluate that at site plan. But what's being proposed is an approval of eight by eight eight by eighteen spaces with the MPUD, which means It's already allowed. You won't have a chance to evaluate it at site plan. So that's really what I'm asking you is are you comfortable with that being decided? Now before you have the site plan.

2:26:29Yeah, we we generally we are comfortable with that in this particular situation.

2:26:35Okay, that's my question. Okay.

2:26:37Yeah, and just as Brad mentioned, I am also being told by the team that that is being approv that that is being proposed, but there's also a condition that talks about wheel stops in order that to prevent vehicles from overhanging on sidewalks and on landscaping. So

2:26:51My my concern wasn't for the front w the wheel stop. My concern was People opening their car door and spanging it into the next one. You know, I I happens all the time. That's my biggest

2:27:03Yeah.

2:27:04Biggest aggravation about narrower spaces. I drive a Mini Cooper, so I'm not I don't have a problem with that.

2:27:16And David you phrased the issue right, 'cause it wasn't for me it was the less spaces was not an issue, it was the w it was the width. So unless space is actually better because it does encourage more transit.

2:27:26Yeah, I don't think anybody's disputing the no the the production in the number of spaces.

2:27:35Maybe

2:27:35it's a good thing.

2:27:39Yes, we there it has been allowed in the past.

2:27:42And it's working without complaints.

2:27:45As far as I'm aware they haven't come to us. I can't I can't say that the apartment

2:27:51the apartment complex manager hasn't had complaints potentially, but uh they there haven't been complaints to us about the design. And uh essentially uh you know the size again that's that's the size that uh is the minimum in most jurisdictions. Uh so you know Pasco has a larger Space in our code. So we're we're essentially matching in this respect what other projects and other jurisdictions are doing with this type of one

2:28:18could argue that Pasco has more larger vehicles.

2:28:20Well can can

2:28:21I

2:28:21go argue that Pasco's right and they're wrong. Can I can I ask a question then?

2:28:34I don't think David wants that from No, I I I

2:28:38mean I think that's essentially what we're doing here.

2:28:46Uh and we are gonna look at that as as a complete issue and not just independently uh as a parking space size issue, but there that'll be a piece of several components that we're looking at uh in dealing with parking overall.

2:29:00Yeah, I think that's the thing we're concerned about. I I would hate to see it be the standard. If if we're And it seems like that's what we're doing. We're making it the standard.

2:29:09Well you're making it the standard for this M P U D. But but

2:29:15Uh that's why I asked are you allowing this elsewhere and he sounds like he says he is, so uh You gotta watch him every minute.

2:29:22Yeah, and you're making it the standard with this MPUD within the multifamily apartment dimensional c standards.

2:29:28Yeah, it's a very very restricted

2:29:29space where this

2:29:30is

2:29:31So it's it's not the standard within the retail office?

2:29:34That's accurate. So if you look at your conditions of approval fifteen of eighteen.

2:29:40It's you.

2:29:41It's you.

2:29:42You have to get more plug-ins.

2:29:43It's it's for that riffraff of the other people that talked about the riffraff. Just kidding. Sorry.

2:29:48Well I okay, so that makes more sense because if you live there you're kind of knowing when you move into that community

2:29:56That's different than a commercial place where Probably bumping into the vehicle. So I wouldn't be His his Concerned. I'm less concerned when it's just the multifamily. Right. But you but it before you start allowing that on retail and office, you probably need to really look to make sure you're not having issues.

2:30:17Yeah, we're we're looking at all sorts of things in that in that package. We also look at ride sharing and the changes in some of the ride sharing, uh potential for automated vehicles and automated vehicle parking and the types of spaces they would need. So there's a number of different things. We're looking at this in a very broad scope. So uh parking space size will be a piece of it. Um it make it bigger, it make it smaller. Uh y we're not quite there yet, but we are looking at it all.

2:30:44Okay. Good thing. I I have w an issue. It's uh just one issue, but it's multiple places. Churches, schools, parks. Constantly seeing this come up and that's the the waiver of the alcoholic beverages. It really um concerns me that first of all you got schools.

2:31:09And parts. And churches. Churches are Maybe one day a week, maybe two days a week. Schools are constant, five days a week throughout the s technically really throughout the school year, because you have summer school. And parks? Three hundred and sixty five days a year.

2:31:27There's nothing worse than that. The sea drunk. Come to a park. Now he may come to the park with his own bottle wrapped up in a bag. or sit in his car. That's a separate issue. But I hate to see the sale of alcoholic beverages that can be prevented by not wavering the thousand foot distance. And I've seen this thousand foot come up constantly over the years that I lived here in Pasco County. Why don't we just do away with a thousand feet? Make it zero feet.

2:31:58If you got a thousand feet, And you can't abide by the thousand feet. Then look at it and get rid of it. But waiver after waiver after waiver.

2:32:09If I can clarify some of that, um just want to make sure that the waiver is for the consumption, not for the sale, because the sale is exempt from the waiver. So you could do sale of alcoholic beverages for package. So in other words, off-premises consumption, you don't have to apply for a waiver for that. This would be for those places where there's a restaurant or a bar or something where it's consumption on premises. So the so like the seven eleven

2:32:39for example, just I'm just gonna throw out a seven eleven as an example. Seven eleven is not subject to that thousand foot waiver because what happens is that You drive in there, you buy the the alcohol, the the alcoholic beverages beverage and you take it with you home or wherever you you're gonna consume it. It's not consumed on premises. The waiver is for consumption on premises.

2:33:02Nice. I guess the other point of clarification is My understanding is there's not many schools, parks, or churches within a thousand feet. of these nodes today. Is that right?

2:33:14That's accurate, yes.

2:33:19schools, parks, places of worship that might choose to locate in these nodes. Is that that was how it was explained to me.

2:33:25That's accurate, yes. That is that is correct.

2:33:28So they would they'd be locating in that area knowing that it was a Waved area basically. Correct.

2:33:38Because they would know that it was a good thing. It was already waived basically. Is that accurate? Am I saying that right?

2:33:44David, yes, you are correct. That's that's accurate. And then I just also want to say that under the structure, the way the L the land development code is now uh the applicant would still have to come in and apply for an administrative use permit for the sale of alcoholic beverages, which gets the property gets posted, you know. So that's

2:34:03So so there will still be some type of notice for

2:34:05folks. But the the only existing school is what is is it what's the school that's there that's on Chansey?

2:34:12Yeah. Data v oaks.

2:34:14No. Does anybody know the name of the school that's on Chansey Boulevard?

2:34:19Double Branch.

2:34:20Double Branch. So is it within a thousand feet of any of these nodes?

2:34:27So So we're not waiving anything for any school that's there today. Is what my understanding. This is for future schools, future parks. Feature places of worship that might choose to locate in these notes.

2:34:42Just for clarity, Denise, in the staff analysis in the memo, is staff saying they support all four of those things? Because that Item C is not clear the way I read it.

2:34:56And while she's looking that up, let me try to project down the road. This area that the this particular node is at or the areas you described are being developed.

2:35:09And what I heard was that yes, you can go ahead and if this is approved as it is, then that a par comes in down the road. that they m the park must be notified or who's gonna notify the Well they would be buying into an area that's

2:35:27zoned with a waiver. With a waiver. So they would know that if they locate a school or a church in this area It very well could be within a thousand feet of an alcohol sales. So they'd be buying the zoning's gonna reflect that it's waived. So when you buy something, usually you check your zoning to see what you can do. The zoning will reflect that it's there's a waiver in that area. It's an alcohol wave zone.

2:35:56No, I s I still stand by uh my earlier remarks. I know Denise used the example of somebody going into a 7-Eleven. Kind of the area I grew up in. You go into a cell of a lemon, buy your bottle of bourbon, wrap it in your plastic bag, and go to the nearest park and you drink it. And this is what's gonna happen in this area if this ordinance goes through like it is. Well uh seven eleven can only start bearing.

2:36:24So this so this barrel height for the record again. We need to clean this up a little bit. This is for consumption. You do not require a waiver for the sale. Your code just changed. So when Tammy and I worked on this language, we pulled language from another project You do not require a waiver for the sale. You require a waiver for consumption. So it impacts restaurants and bars that are going to locate in our mixed-use area. And so we want to have restaurants in our mixed-use area. And

2:36:54we think this is a better way of being up front. As opposed to somebody moving in and then we seek the waiver. We know we're gonna have restaurants in our mixed-use areas in proximity to our housing, and we're looking forward to that, having those services for those residents. And so we're trying to be upfront about it so that if they come, like David says they come, whether it's a church or maybe a charter school, comes and wants to also locate in our mixed-use area. that they know that there can be alcohol. served at a restaurant or a bar. Now

2:37:25it can be sold you know, for off site package, you know, you go to to um seven eleven and you and you buy your beer on your way home or your wine. Um that doesn't up the waiver doesn't apply that anymore. The code was changed. So it's just consumption. So you're talking about a restaurant or a bar and um we want those in our mixed use area.

2:37:47Yeah, and and for clarification, I wanna make sure that we all understand that the code was not recently changed for that waiver thing. The that waiver provision in the code, the Board of County Commissioners changed that in Two thousand and fourteen. What was changed is the body that hears the waiver. being from the Board to the Planning Commission. So that consumption on premises uh change was made in two thousand and fourteen because basically the the

2:38:17Board of County Commissioners concept was they were getting all these applications for seven eleven and they were They were on consent, um applications for for different package sales, they were on consent and they were like we don't want to get it we don't want them to have a conditional use anymore and and we basically went to the board and said, Well, but they still need to get a waiver. No, we don't want them to have a waiver anymore either. So that's what the board did in two thousand and fourteen. Um took a bunch of my work away

2:38:44from me.

2:38:46I haven't seen the word consumption consumption in this paragraph here. I just see sale

2:38:52Yeah, I I think Barbara made a comment that we need to, you know, definitely make this a little bit clearer.

2:38:58Yeah, because it says it says sales or consumption. It should just speak to consumption.

2:39:03Yeah.

2:39:03And

2:39:03the conditions of approval that's in there.

2:39:06So we'll we can clean that up.

2:39:08Okay that

2:39:08Denise and Tammy and myself can clean that up.

2:39:11Yeah, if you want to make that good option.

2:39:13Sorry for the confusion.

2:39:14Yeah, just clean it up if you don't mind.

2:39:17Understood.

2:39:19And I do have a problem with these gas stations that sell the booze right there and the guy takes it and goes off and, you know, gets hammered and gets

2:39:30I don't think it's the gas station's fault, sir. So can I make one ask one last question?

2:39:38I'm sorry.

2:39:39But I understand your point. I put my Commissioner Starkey hat on again. Are you are you going to include the condition about because this does a lot of town homes, right? Mm-hmm. Are you going to address the tree issue on this one? Somebody

2:39:54Well heck, why not, right?

2:39:56I'm

2:39:57gonna I'm gonna beat the code. I'm gonna have to write the code. But I think I think staff's been working.

2:40:04Well usually just have to stand up and say yes, yes. But um but I don't mind working on the condition and I I think I saw one floating around on my email I think we have that condition pretty

2:40:15downpacked already. So we'll

2:40:16we'll take

2:40:17care of it.

2:40:23Yeah, it you will you will be seeing it in the M PewD. Okay.

2:40:27Thank you.

2:40:31I'm doing doing my job as Commissioner Starkey's representative. I'm not her representative, I'm her legal representative.

2:40:40Oh yeah, I understand.

2:40:42All right.

2:40:43Okay. Any other questions? If not Do I hear a motion?

2:40:50I'll make the motion to approve. So to be clear, is that would the change to this other node to be C one retail? Adding the tree condition And fixing the Alcohol language. Yes. Is that it all included in your motion? Yes. Okay.

2:41:07All second.

2:41:09You got all that? Somebody's not going to be able to do Okay.

2:41:12Yeah, I think to to clarify, I believe the southern known to uh to be consistent with C one uses.

2:41:17Right.

2:41:17Right,

2:41:17change it from C two to C one.

2:41:19Yes. Okay. Okay.

2:41:21So we have a motion and we have a second. Is there any further discussion of the motion?

2:41:27No. No sirve. Okay. All in favor? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Like sign. Motion carries. Is that it, Denise? Brad, did you just say me a chat? Brad, you somehow.

2:41:42No, this this discussion went on for a while. I was just curious, was the public comment the the from the WebEx for this one?

2:41:48Yes.

2:41:48Yes. So we already did and there wasn't anybody else in the web.

2:41:51Well, I guess did we ask for public comment from I I only see the applicants team here, but is there anybody else was that was here to speak to this? No, I don't think uh he spoke the previous one. Okay.