PDD-207469 Starkey Ranch transportation DA cancellation and Lake Blanche
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The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Mar 5, 2020
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Mar 5, 2020
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What was said
Machine transcription of 27m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 92% of 122 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
All right, another regular agenda. PC one.
PC one. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Tammy Snyder, Planning and Development. I present for you Starkey Ranch M PUD PDD 207469. Starkey Ranch is on the north side of State Road fifty four and on the east side of Starkey Boulevard.
And the applicant is proposing to cancel the currently approved transportation development agreement as most of it has been completed and add pertinent language from it into the conditions of approval. um regarding Lake Blanche and Lake Blanche and Starkey Boulevard improvements and dedicate right away for Rangeland Boulevard east extension rather than constructing it at this time as there is an Army Corps of Engineer wetland crossing issue.
Mm.
Here's the lovely master plan.
And Starkey M PUD was approved in twenty twelve. There have been a few modifications since then. Um Uh as noted they are proposing to cancel the approved transportation DA because most of those improvements and credits for such improvements have been completed And or moved to the um the new conditions of approval revised conditions of approval. The existing unified sign plan development agreement is in no way affected
by this transportation DA cancellation and does remain in effect. And the master roadway plan will be revised to reflect this change. With that, the PDD recommends approval to the BCC.
Tim, can you go back to your first slide for one second?
The not that one, I'm sorry. The first one with words on that was that one. So I think we still have an issue with the title in SIRE because it what's on our agenda is different than what you have there. What w what's on our agenda still doesn't say anything about them building Lake Blanche, um, instead of doing the fifty four Starkey intersection. which is an important part of this request. But your title doesn't
say that. You say it there, but you're not at least the title I have in here.
Substantial modification. Do you allow the cancellation of the previously approved transportation development agreement and incorporate pertinent language from the transportation DA into the kitchen conditions of approval? Did you want it to be more specific as to mention the Lake Blanche intersection?
Yeah, see right up there you say Replace the requirement to improve the intersection or instruct you with the construction of Lake Plans Tribe. Mm-hmm. That's missing from your title in the software.
Okay, so you wanted that to be more specific than
Yes. That's the main thing they're requesting, and it's not in your title. That's so I think it needs to be.
Okay. I will revise that for the BCC.
Make you tell me as the applicant present.
Yes.
Joel to an associates uh Palm Harbor, Florida. I represent WSTSR, which is the developer of record for Starkey Ranch MPUD. I have my client representative Matt Call here, also Height Design, and also Steve Henry from Lynx and Associates. So if there are any detailed questions, I'm happy to have the appropriate person address it. First on the uh the description question, Ms. Barrero just uh reminded me that her her letter notices and and the other
sign notices did include reference to the gist of it, which is the Lake Blanch Drive extension uh and the deletion of the Starkey Boulevard requirements.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that we have this problem, Joel.
To be clear
that
we're actually requested, which currently doesn't.
Okay. So yeah, at least the underlying notice information had all those details. Uh as Mr. Goldstein has pointed out, um We're really doing two two global things here, uh fairly simple concepts. Number one is because most of the development agreement, which originally was really voluminous and somewhat confusing, because most of that has been performed, we agreed with the county that we would terminate the development agreement and then we would simply Extract from that and insert into the new
MPUD conditions of approval the remaining obligations that still existed. So the remaining obligations are still in place. They're just transferred to the MPUD conditions of approval. Well that said, uh to David's point, the main change is that Uh a business agreement, if you will, was discussed with the county because as Mr. Tanello knows very well, we have an imminent and substantial looming problem with the new school
opening and a dire need to have Lake Blanche Drive constructed. to help handle that school traffic. Uh that obligation had not been covered previously. We did the school agreement after the original MQD approval. So this is a substantial change from the original MPUD approval to accommodate that new K-8 school, which is slated to open 2021 in the fall. So the business arrangement was basically as follows. Um historically there were two developer entities.
Who had the potential obligation for additional improvements at Starkey Boulevard intersection with State Road 54. the new Starkey Ranch Developer, if you will, from when they purchased that, but also the prior long leaf Developer. portion of the project. So the county had two people on the hook for Starkey Boulevard Intersection. No one for Lake Blanche Drive. So the proposal is that mutually
is agreeable to county staff, county attorney's office, and the strike and wrench developer. Is that my client has agreed to go ahead and build Lake Blanch Drive to help address the school issue for the school district in the county. And so we've committed in this amendment To get that right-of-way donated and provided by June of this year, just two or three months hence, have the right-of-way in hand. and then to actually have that road constructed by July 31st
of next year. Very ambitious undertaking. to get it permitted and built. Mr. Tinello's hoping we can actually get that done. Uh and obviously the parents and others uh using the school are hopeful. We believe we can do it if there's no delay and if we get this done now so that we know we can proceed. Um as to that Starkey Ranch Boulevard intersection, we understand there are already issues there. Mr. Cox made that very clear this week to me. We do
get that. And what we're all hoping is that the obligation that is remaining with the long leaf developer that that will get done sooner rather than later, so that those also are made. If all this pans out. Despite the interim pain, but if it all pans out, my client can get the Lake Blanch Drive Road completed in time for the school opening, and yet the county ultimately will still get the Starkey Boulevard intersection done again, hopefully sooner rather than
later with all that traffic there. So that's that's our view of the proposal to try to Put some practical sense on why this is being done. And uh as I said, Mr. Goldstein may have further comments on the county's behalf and I know their transportation guys are also here in case Mr. Cox or anyone else has any more detailed questions about the signal delay and the signal timing and the turning lights.
Jules, the one thing I would add is that I think County staff does believe that the construction of Lake Blanche will provide some relief to that intersection as well because it will allow for an additional place to make left to get over to. Trinity Boulevard or to Gunn Highway.
Yeah, correct. We agree. It it will provide an alternate track that hopefully will also help relieve some of this interim condition. But I think the flip side of that is maybe even more significant. If we don't get Lake Blanche Drive done and that school opens uh Starkey Boulevard will be even more of a mess than even as bad as it is now. So that's an impending a serious issue if we don't get Lake Blanch Drive. done and right now there's no other way to get that done. That's that's the problem.
And the only other comment I would make is that the county's under construction for Ridge Road to connect to the Sun Coast and I'm sure Steve or Aston can comment further, but it's likely to provide a significant relief to that intersection as well once it's open.
So we're happy to answer any questions and if for technical nature Mr. Henry can answer it or my client uh Mr. Call be happy to answer anything he can he can provide. Otherwise th thank go ahead. Mr. Bacon?
Alright, a couple of things.
As as was already noted, the the attachments on the agenda did not uh include the red line. So This is the first time I've actually able to really compare
between the two. Um and and it seems like there's you guys have a lot of problems with sire. So it really should be a priority to try to get it fixed. Um
actually there uh we have been working on a new system and it's already been um approved by the Board of County Commissioners. So that's something we're working on. So right now I think we're paying Sire month to month at this point in time.
Okay. Um
So Starkey in fifty four, um
So I drive that multiple times a day and it needs improvement right now.
I understand that once Ridge Road opens up, I'm quite sure that that's gonna provide some relief to Starkey Boulevard. Um, but that's quite a ways away. And
The question I have is So And having just got this uh development agreement that I can read it and compare the two the changes. The Lake Lake Blanche or Town Who was originally responsible for building that. And and went.
So my understanding is really
It was not a specific requirement of Starkey Rampin PD to build it. It likely would have needed to be built by the developer of the pod who advots it whenever they came in for development.
Okay. I m because
when
I look at this, it's on the road's on the map.
It it is. It it is a planned road, there's no question. But it was a considered a site related road and site related roads in the county are generally built when the adjacent development comes in for development.
Okay, so it's not the responsibility of the applicant today.
Cur currently they have no responsibility to put it back. They built it up to I think it's somebody's in helping with the name and begins with a noun.
Marica
or Marica or something? Um because that's the part they needed for the their d their own development. So they have built sections of that roadway.
Just not the extension from there over to Starkey.
Correct. Okay, correct. Because that would ultimately be the responsibility of whoever develops the land. to the south of that road. But we didn't have no plans in for it's a different owner. It's not the same owner as as the applicant.
Okay. Um
I just I'm gonna su I'm gonna support this, okay, but I just have a concern that we are letting One developer off the hook. in hopes that another developer is gonna come forward with their project. In all likelihood they will. There's a lot of need for that development on Starkey Boulevard, but you're leaving some what-ifs there. And I would prefer to see There be some ex handoff
of that responsibility from one developer to another and not put the county in the middle. And what we're doing here is we're putting the county in the middle by saying that, okay, you build this road for us, which we need, and I completely agree with that. W so you not you don't have to fix this intersection that you are directly impacting, because they're direct that Starkey Ranch is directly impacting Starkey Boulevard. M fifty four. So we let them off the hook with the hopes of another
developer coming in Does it step up that responsibility. But if they don't, it's okay because the county's here and we're gonna get mobility fees and we'll be able to pay for it that way. But I'd rather see the developer build it because they can do it faster. And you can probably do it more cost effective and efficient than the county having to go through all of its processes to build a road or improve that intersection. Um at
some point down the road. So just for what it's worth, I just think that There should this this agreement should have been negotiated a little bit differently. So
I just want to make clear the long leaf it's not a hypothetical. They are currently obligated to fix that intersection. It's it's not it's in writing. I mean th th their conditions of approval require them to fix that interception.
But you told me that they That the county has not made them do that even though they've had this in place and we're relying upon this new section that's coming in. Number four it is Neighborhood Four, correct. Neighborhood four to come in, even though five is already being built. So we're attaching it to number four.
Correct.
So
And number four will generate enough mobility fees to pay for that intersection purpose.
I can't speak to why we allowed Longleaf neighborhoods one, two, three, and five to build without fixing the intersection. Maybe Mr. Khalil can answer that question, but uh he's shaking his head now. Um But but it's been an obligation for Longleaf since probably it's it was originally approved.
Well at least I now know who to who to thank every morning as I sit through multiple traffic lights waiting to go to work. So thank you for for dropping the ball there, County staff.
Good afternoon, Asan Khalil with Planning and Development, Current Planning as a Transportation Planner. To be honest, I don't know why it was not triggered at phase one or two or three. The requirement was there from the beginning and historically This was considered a access management related improvement with no mobility fee credits. And with the latest development that came in, we agreed that if they were to come in today,
considering our current regulations, this would be considered an off site improvement. Bay Ford is way north of that. Access management would have looked at it as their specific access, not half a mile away or a mile away from them. So the improvement. We all agree that it would be a mobility fee credit improvement. Nobody's ever gotten off the hook from doing this thing. It it came down to a timing of doing this improvement. Perhaps the traffic studies were not done to support when
it is needed. Now the recent counts that were done They do show that the left turn, dual left turn lanes are needed now. But like David was explaining, there's several kind of moving pieces there. One Ridge Road, two, Rangeland and the traffic building up on that. Three Lake Blanche and fourth piece, in my opinion, is the southern leg of the intersection. They haven't come in yet. But to get that geometry right so that they're accommodated and they're accommodated the
right way, It was a general consensus that timing wise it would be better to see what type of traffic diversion happens in the next year or so when Lake Blanche is built. Because I think David and I we talked about this. As you're approaching southbound on on uh Starkey approaching fifty-four. uh in the afternoon when or in the morning, actually the morning is the worst. By the time you get to the intersection it's too late for you to pick another route. Rangeland is too
far north. Unless you're somebody like me who opens up the Google Maps and you look at where it is read and you figure out a different route ahead of time.
Lake Blanche would our expectation is that as you're approaching the intersection in the morning, you see there's a backup. you'll turn on Lake Blanche instead and run parallel to fifty four and pop out somewhere else on fifty four.
Yeah, and that's gonna take you past the school zone. So that's
all right.
That's always a pleasure.
It it is, but it is a route that you rather take than to sit there through three or four cycle lengths and it's a driver perception, not just sitting and waiting at an intersection. You know, I do it too, it's silly, I'll take Leonard Road instead of avoiding forty one, fifty four and loop around, come back on forty one and do all of that. Time wise I may not be saving, but it's a it's a perception of a driver that I'm moving, I'm doing something. I'm not sitting here through cycle after cycle. Longleaf is still on the hook for doing this thing phase four, so
we decided it would be prudent right now to have Lake Blanche come in and do it. They're gonna continue to monitor that intersection and study the warrants to see if Lake Blanche and Starkey triggers a signal warrant. And if it warns a signal, a signal will be put in, that'll be a mobility fee creditable improvement. Okay. Uh so we we w we thought from a transportation perspective it is is a better decision to delay that do a left turn and really evaluate what happens with the diversion. 'Cause
as of two days ago I was informed that Rage Road uh construction has been escalated. So the next year and a half They're talking about connections to forty one, which was four to five years out before.
Do you know what the timing is to connect it to the Sun Coast Test Hudson?
I do not. I do not. I was under the impression it was much longer, but we were dealing with a project on Forty One and Future Ridge Road. where we were just informed by project management that they have escalated their schedule and they're gonna do it within the next year and a half, which we were telling the developers it's four to five years out. So this pin sped up quite a bit. So Lake Blanche Ridge Road, all of these are coming in almost around the same time. And with rangement, traffic is picking up 'cause I've been taking
it every day, you probably use it And I've noticed one. More more and more more and more traffic is using it.
Yeah, I mean i Lake Blanche is not gonna help me at all because I my where I go every morning is before where that's gonna come out to fifty four.
Well eventually Rangeland will help because your predominant movement is in the morning at that intersection where everybody is coming south and majority heads east towards Either Gun Highway or fifty I'm sorry. Sun Coast Yeah.
I go that way every day and it there's yes, there's some Some traffic that's going that way. Um, you know, I asked a stupid question yesterday and that is, you know, do we have a traffic study that shows of of this? And, you know, the answer was no we
I'm sorry. Traffic
We don't have a traffic study that shows what uh Rangeland Boulevard has has either added or taken away from Starkey Boulevard. I also see a lot of people turning on the Starkey Boulevard from Starkey Ranch. So, you know, you have people coming from the Land O' Lakes area And they're gonna turn and go through Starkey Ranch to get the Starkey Boulevard to go north. I mean I see that that you know that's happening, but we don't have a
study that shows any of that.
We do have counts as of last year when Rangeland was opened up. that exact question had come up, like how much of a diversion are you really experiencing? Road had just opened up, we put up some signs out there, two fifty four, so on so forth. Uh the counts showed that at that time there wasn't a significant impact of arrangement. But
when you first opened it, that's correct. But then the people who live in Starkey Ranch started to complain. So of course we put the sheriff's office out there to slow everybody down. So
But you have to realize also uh
chilling effect.
most of your southbound traffic on Starkey is really not coming majority I'm talking about. It's not really in my opinion is coming from Longleaf or per se Starkey. A lot of Traffic comes from the north, that's coming down Dicubelus, Moon Lake and whatnot and heading this way. Now with the rate road and rangement being there and then late match. It would be interesting to see how the the r uh realistic, you know, impact of these three east west,
fifty four, Lake Lange, Rangeland and Ridge Road, actually four of them. how they impact the center section. It may be that we do counts and as of today it's needed, but in a year or so, year and a half, two years we do counts again. And it shows that a dual left is needed, then definitely it will be put in.
I mean it it's it's been needed for three years. It's not just today, it's it's been needed for multiple years. So um so one question I would have that I would ask the staff to maybe look at for that intersection is right now there's is you're heading north, coming to 54, you you can either turn left or you can turn right. right. So if you need to turn left, you're in a long line of traffic. And what happens is a lot of people will turn right there and go up and make a U-turn on 54
so they can then head east instead of stacking in that lane. Or they'll just wait for the light to turn and and they make two turn lanes to to the east. Um I think maybe the county ought to look at that right hand lane and make it Or consider making it a right or left turn link. That would certainly help with the stacking of traffic. 'Cause it stacks up all the way past Um Was it
town town avenue I guess is?
That's a not a very expensive solution. It can be done. Traffic operations already I mean they have to be on board with restriping your engineering services, so it could become a right or a left.
I mean that might be a temporary fix while all these other things are happening. And and I agree with you. I think that Ridge Road is gonna dramatically reduce the traffic. on the Starkey.
Right. And and just you know, to give you a little bit more background, you know, uh Steve Henry is here. They had presented two alternatives at that intersection for putting those dual left Yeah, South Andola's the through right. One was to take out the landscaping in the median, keeping the Their monument sign that's there. And the other one was to widen to the west. The westerly widening was significantly more expensive because of the underground utilities, sidewalk, relocation, so on so forth, light
poles, all of that stuff. If you notice the center median, even though it's nicely landscaped, the monument sign is offset. It was always upset. to accommodate this future eternally that will happen at some time in the future. Right, which is now So it is kind of set up to do that. Yes, you will hurt the beautiful entrance to Starkey and there was quite a bit of opposition from the R C D. D. board and whatnot that you're destroying this thing and you haven't really evaluated
the other road's impacts before you ruin our entryway, at least give it a chance. And we thought that would also buy us some time to see if any development comes on the south side. to, you know, have a better, you know, idea of what the ultimate geometry should be like at that location.
The only other thing I would say is you mentioned like land exchange. potentially being used in conflicting the school traffic, but I believe AM peak is usually before the school start time.
I mean M A B. I think when I think it backed up that left turn it's going to be well before the start of school.
I'm not sure exactly what the school timing is will be, Steve. AM peak generally is between
Well I was gonna say f as far as coming across Starkey Boulevard, Longleaf Elementary is there, so there's not gonna be people coming across there unless they're students from sixth, seventh, and eighth grade come to the K eight. And then with Starkey development itself, those kids are all within the two mile walk zone. I'm not saying they're gonna walk, but
Yeah, the question is his his concern was that if people are using Lake Blanche to avoid the fifty four stroke intersection that they're gonna be going right by the school.
Right.
The question is would that when is that the new school's start time going to be?
Yeah, we don't know that yet. It all depends on the bus routes. We have to redo the whole bus routes, but
Well anyway to move along, I'll I'll move for approval. I feel much better now that I've voiced.
That's something to consider really. You know when you're Yeah, you need to have a
Is there any other uh public comment on that? Thank you, I see.
Uh there's not any uh So I'll move
for approval. Exactly.
Motion and a second. Any other comment from up here?
Nope.
Motion and second. All in favor?
Aye.
All opposed? Motion carries.
No, thank you.