Massey Partners rezoning to AR5 rural residential

1:16:33Thank you. Following item is PDD 197425, the name of Massie Partners Limited. On this item, I also want to uh clarify that I have provided to the clerk's office uh some ex parte communication forms from all Planning Commission members between the Planning Commission members individually and Clark Hobby, and those have been provided to the clerk's office. So this rezoning under the name of Massey Partners Limited is located in north central Pasco County on the northwest corner of Trilby Road and Dowling Lake

1:17:03Road. The request is from AC Agricultural District, which is 10 acre minimum lot sizes, to AR5, which is five acre minimum lot sizes for site-built homes only. The applicant proposes to develop the develop development in accordance with AR5. The applicant has voluntarily agreed to record a deed restriction on the property, restricting the access, the number of lots that have lakefront access to a total of eight, and

1:17:33also restricting where that there is not community boat launch access to Dowling Lake. Mm. The surrounding area is characterized by rural residential density development, which are lot sizes which begin at three acres and go up way up and above ten acres, and also agricultural pursuits. Uh the surrounding zoning, as you can see, there's some parcels that are zoned AR, AR5, AC in the surrounding area. Future

1:18:04land use is AGR which is one dwelling per five acres, and A A G which is one per ten. Access to the site is from Toby Road, Dowling Lake Road and or Easton Lane. And uh before you is a recommendation for approval. Uh s and of course we're asking that the um zoning does not take effect until the applicant record that deed restriction that's mentioned mentioned in finding of fact number one.

1:18:33Okay, thank you. Now we

1:18:35have a present.

1:18:38Denise before you leave wasn't there a finding of fact change on the dealing with the road as well?

1:18:43Yes. There is a finding of fact change since this came to the before the Planning Commission. That finding of fact is finding of fact number eleven. The finding of facts, I'll I'll read the finding of fact in its entirety. Subject to the Land Development Code Section 901.2 J Transportation Corridor Management Dedication Rough Proportionality. The Orna applicant may be required to convey at no cost to Pasco County up to 67.5 feet of right-of-way from the center line of construction of Trilby Road. The

1:19:13required width is based on the Pasco County Corridor Preservation Table as amended, located in the comprehensive plan transportation element for arterial collector and/or major. Intersection right-of-way requirements consistent with resolution number 19-136, the county administrator or designee may administratively approve an alternative standard utilizing the right-of-way preserve preservation with standards for non-state, county, collector, and arterial roadways.

1:19:42Sorry, David. Which finding of fact are we speaking of

1:19:45road

1:19:46Oh I apologize. Okay. June seventh, twenty nineteen, finding of fact number twelve. That finding of fact also changed, so I just wanted to we needed to clarify that anyway.

1:19:54Okay.

1:19:55Fighting of fact twelve. June 7, 2019, the subject request is found to be exempt from timing and phasing requirements. T P19-131 as a highest and best use of the proposed zoning district would result in a gross trip increase of less than 50 peak hour trips, AM or PM, whichever is higher. Chobi Road is considered to be a substandard road. If applicable under section 901.4 of the land development code at the time of site plan submittal, the applicant will provide a Substandard road analysis which will identify any required improvements on Troy Road.

1:20:25Okay, thank you.

1:20:30Mr. Chairman, Clark Hobby, Hobby and Hobby PA. I have been sworn, gave my address earlier. I'll be brief. I have Steve Henry with me to answer some transportation questions that were brought up at the previous meeting that we started. But I just wanted to remind uh The the commission of a few things and make a couple of points. The rezoning that you see before you today, I'm gonna flip back and see if I can find the aerial. There we go. Is for rezoning from AC to AR5.

1:21:01That means one unit per 10 acres to one unit per five acres. Very, very, very low density. This is consistent with a comprehensive plan which encourages rural desert densities out in the Northeast Pasco area. I was very involved in the Northeast Pasco adoption process, and what we kept hearing over and over at the time was that folks wanted to keep the rural flavor and larger lots. We are not in here seeking small lots. We are seeking

1:21:31the second largest lots. in the county in the AR five zoning district. The comp plan specifically says in the appendix that the AGAGR and Res One land uses are considered rural in northeast Pasco and they are consistent with one another. If you seek to go to something more D dense than Res One, then you have to com prove that they're compatible with one another. That's not necessary here because we're at such a low density. The AGR future land use classification

1:22:02states that rural residential uses are permitted, and the stated purpose of the AR5 zoning district is to create, quote, or to quote, provide a rural or farm atmosphere in which single family home ownership may be permitted. So we're right in the sweet spot for this agricultural area. Denise pointing out, and and I wanted to let you all know I did some work after the last hearing. There basically, if you start with this property and you go half a

1:22:32mile in that area and half a mile in this area, there are at least 39 five-acre or less tracks. So we are not incompatible with the area as a whole. There are is a ton of AR-5 and AR out in this area. Yeah. The so that the first thing there was some argument about density at the first hearing. The second thing had to do with the lakefront access. And again, I just want to emphasize my client never had any intention of giving all of the potential homeowners in here, which could

1:23:02be up to I think either 33 or 4 total houses over many years that could be built. We have no intention of giving them boat access. And that kind of thing, all we were trying to say was we may have some lakefront lots in here, and we've agreed to limit those to eight because that's the thing the most we think we can get given the 200-foot lot frontage requirement that's in AR-5. I would point out that everyone who lives around Dowling Lake already has lots running into Dowling Lake. There

1:23:32are already 19 other parcels with frontage on their there and they all run into the lake. Two of 'em are three acres and one of 'em's only fifty feet wide. Um and there are a number of flag lots that have been run out And into the area. So we're not gonna mess everything up for the neighbors on Dowling Lake. We think we can do a responsible thing. It will probably be a very small development. With regard to transportation, Steve Henry's going to speak in just a minute, but just to reiterate what staff was telling you all, a substandard

1:24:03road analysis is not required at the time of a Euclidean zoning because you don't know what's going to actually Be developed. That's why it's treated differently than an MPUD. So if we propose a development down the road at the time of a site plan that creates a hundred or more trips, we'll have to do a substandard road analysis and address issues like mitigation. But we're not here today. And I cannot tell you, my client who's owned a lot of this property since 1937, they may and it'll Doing

1:24:34a site plan for five units and it wouldn't even trigger a substandard road analysis, so it's premature. This the last thing I was going to say about transportation is this project doesn't generate anywhere near the number of trips that even require a timing and phasing analysis. The net increase on here would be about 17 p.m. peak hour. trips which is one third of the limit you get to before you even have to do an analysis. So this project

1:25:04I don't think is going to have any It's going to have a negligible effect on Trilby Road and the surrounding network. With that, there were a few specific questions that neighbors raised at the first hearing and I'm going to have Steve Henry speak as to the status of Trilby Road to make sure we have a safe project. Thank you.

1:25:22Thank you.

1:25:34Good afternoon, Steve Henry Linkson Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607, and I have been sworn. What Denise is putting up on the on the Elmo there is a is a graphic. What we've done is uh actually DOT had done some counts on Trilby Road uh in 2018. So this kind of want to show you what the existing traffic is out there and kind of also level of service, where that is stands in the level of service of the road. just so you get an idea of what's out there. Um so this you slide it down a bit.

1:26:04So the today based on the DOT twenty twenty eighteen volume is about fourteen hundred cars per day on Trilby Road. When you look at the capacity, the actual capacity of the road uh is about twelve thousand. Uh if you look at just actually level of service B on that road is about four thousand. So you can see it's a very low volume roadway from that standpoint. Then what we did just just as Clark had indicated

1:26:34uh that uh from a substandard road standpoint that if applicable when we come in to develop the site, uh we'll have to do an analysis To evaluate the road. But just wanted to give you, uh in case you hadn't driven the road, give you some pictures of the road. If you can flip through those, Denise, this just kind of gives you an idea of what the road looks like today, which is, you know, when you look at it, you know, a fairly uh decent road from our standpoint of of the traffic. Just flip through them, just you just Go each each one there's just a there's four or five different

1:27:05pictures that that show the road. Um just keep flipping through them.

1:27:12I just wanted to kind of give you an idea of of the road. Um but if you've got any questions, I'm I'm here to answer any questions for you.

1:27:21Anybody have any questions?

1:27:24Steve, other than the width of the lanes. Is that why staff said it was substandard because of the width of the lanes?

1:27:31Primarily the width of the lanes, yes.

1:27:32So other than that it's just

1:27:35Yeah, the the the the primary things with substandard road are the width, the pavement, um depth and the amount of pavement which we we don't know um out there, and then clear recovery. Those are the typically the the three main um areas of substandard road, but primarily it's the width is the first thing that they looked at. Okay. What was the third one? I didn't catch it. Um it is the pavement no matter that. The amount of pavement oh uh clear recovery. So what what things are on the side of the road or the things within

1:28:06the side of the road that d that are are not within that distance.

1:28:13All right.

1:28:16All right, I think we have some people here with some questions. Art, you wanna

1:28:23You're the first?

1:28:25Mr. Chairman, my name's Art Woodworth excuse me, Art Woodworth, [address removed]. Um just as an aside, for twelve years I told my wife every time I left home to come to one of these meetings, oh don't worry, honey, it won't take too long. I told her that again today and I brought her with me.

1:28:46Um

1:28:51that on things.

1:28:54I'm just gonna touch real quick on the lake frontage. Um I did my own little study of the average lake frontage on Dowling Lake, and Clark's right, there are 19 parcels that have frontage on Dowling Lake in, not including the Massey property, in Pasco County. The average is there's our subdivision, which the average lot width is 270 feet, and the balance that goes over to touch the masses in

1:29:24a counterclockwise direction is an average of 300 feet. There's two parcel or four parcels, I'm sorry, in Hernando County that have an average of 390 feet. So I understand now that they're willing to just do eight lots on the lake. And I also understand they don't want they're willing to not have boat access. But Clark didn't tell you, but he told me before the meeting that they want to have a common, they might want

1:29:54to have a common Beach area, so to speak, or dock. Well, I have a problem with that. There aren't any common docks that I know of on Dallying Lake. It's a very quiet lake. I don't want to have a dock across the lake, and it's a narrow lake across the lake from me where 34 homeowners can get together and have parties.

1:30:21So I object to that.

1:30:23All right, do you think thirty four people are actually gonna get along?

1:30:26Chuck, I don't I don't know. Maybe they'll come down with the dock and fight. I have no idea. I just am against it. I want that on the record. Yeah. Um Denise

1:30:44So I appreciate what Steve Henry said. I respect Steve Henry and his opinion. I appreciate what he said about Trilby Road and those three things that define the road, which I guess was pavement recovery area, and I don't forgot the third one. Anyway, uh there's nothing wrong with the pavement on Trily Ro Trilby Road except that it's quite narrow. Uh what's wrong and what's unique about Trilby Road and why I get concerned about more trips being put

1:31:14on Trilby Road is that there are and I pointed this out at the last meeting, I pointed it out in the the memo that I sent, the email I sent to uh Will Poon, which Denise spre should have spread around of all of you in your packet, is that there are curves on Trilby Road that have very little sight distance. at best a hundred feet. Those two curves right there, which are about a half a mile south of Massey's property, coming from their property

1:31:44south, it's very steep downhill, the right-hand curve. Bottoms out and very steep uphill. Downhill you're maybe maybe there's a hundred feet of sight distance. Uphill there's maybe fifty feet of sight distance. It's a forty-five mile an hour speed limit. Those curves are so tight you cannot go around there at 45 miles an hour in the rain without some racing rain tires. You'll spin off, and we've had cars do that. Cars commonly encroach into the other lane because the

1:32:14lane widths are so narrow. And because a lot of times it's an agricultural area, a lot of times there are pickup trucks towing trailers or semi-trailers, there's there's all kinds of larger, wider vehicles that will encroach onto your lane. Put up the next one, please, Denise. Same thing happens at Blanton Road. The curve is a m radii is a little greater, but still the sight distance is very minimal, maybe 100 feet. And

1:32:44then you can see how tight it is when it hits Blant Road, which is that east west Uh line. So though and then there's the hills. I love it. Can you put up the pictures that were put up a little while ago by Mr. Henry? Mm-hmm. I assume those are on the record now.

1:33:23Just ask me if we went to the one you need

1:33:25to

1:33:25do.

1:33:28So these pictures are kind of convenient because they're all done on the tangent section of the road, which is a s which means the straight section. Uh but there's one picture, you can barely see it in that one. Go to just flip through them, Denise, and I'll tell you when to stop. That one. There's an example, and that's one of the milder examples of a hill. As you approach it, you cannot see, there's no sight distance over the other side of that hill. So if there's a car in your lane, you have to be quick. To maneuver around it. So

1:33:59it's raw, and there's a number of those hills. Some of them, as I already pointed out, are on curves. So it's why I argue that And it's a it's it's it's a factual argument that this road is unique in terms of having those constraints, site distance constraints, um that should make the county think about not increasing densities, thereby increasing the potential for trips on that road. It it's

1:34:29a it's a health, safety, and welfare issue. You know, this goes back to um I heard this in uh the MPUD uh discussion was well gee it's a diminous amount diminished amount. It's only

1:34:45280 more units, which however many trips that is. Well, and that's only a point six in terms of increase. Well You keep adding these 0.6s up and before you know it, you got sixty.

1:35:00And that's a problem. And I don't see how that problem's gonna be solved, particularly with regard to Trailbury Road.

1:35:09So I'd welcome any questions.

1:35:13Any questions? I'm up here for her.

1:35:18I have a question for staff but turn more the applicant, but uh not from Mr. Woodworth.

1:35:24Okay, thank you.

1:35:28observations really more than anything else because I believe in fairness. I think uh I know you do too and I you know you a strong believer in property rights. And I've done some looking into this uh situation since the last meeting and Yeah, ta you correct me if I'm wrong, but d I think you developed uh

1:36:00Yeah, it's it's ninety-eight point six acres. The smallest lot is ten acres in size. But it's nine units. And

1:36:06it's just nine docks on the lake. No.

1:36:10There's

1:36:10not nine docks on the lake.

1:36:14And also the entrance, if I'm not correct me if I'm wrong, the entrance is right on that curve.

1:36:21Yeah, it's close to the curve. That's correct.

1:36:23Not on the curve, but it's close to the curve. The the pr the property we're talking about is clearly on the straightaway. So I I I'm what I'm trying reconcile here is that You know, it's it's difficult for me to reconcile somebody asking me to not allow somebody to do something that that you you in fact did the same exact thing.

1:36:48But Mr. Chairman, I didn't do that same thing. I I developed properly on the I developed ten acre lots. Yeah. On the lake. On the lake. And you and you a ac and

1:36:58your access

1:36:58point is right on the curve. It's not on the curve, it's off the curve, but it's close to the curve. Well, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the linear traffic on the road. I'm talking about people passing each other on the road. I think we're I th I thought without proper cycle.

1:37:15I want to address one other thing you said. I hear this property right stuff. So I I looked it up. And property rights basically say that you can you can have reasonable use of your property if you are consistent with the codes and s and and safety regulations and so forth. It doesn't when I when you bought your house, nobody ever guaranteed you a return on your house. When these people bought their property in 1936 or wherever the heck it was, nobody guaranteed them

1:37:45someday of having five-acre lots. Well,

1:37:50I don't I don't think they're asking for anything that's not permitted in

1:37:53the

1:37:53code.

1:37:57I'm just saying for them To develop at 10 acre lots, which is what they're currently zoned for. I'm asking for them for their zoning to be denied. I think that's pretty clear. So can I ask you a

1:38:11question? It's for me, it's difficult to deny somebody something that other people have been granted. Well so when somebody gets killed I'm looking at being fair, that's all.

1:38:24Yeah, when somebody gets killed on Trilby Road, remember that. So I Well

1:38:28uh let me ask you

1:38:31I was just gonna say are you saying then w that we should not permit anything?

1:38:36No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying you should do everything not to increase densities along that road. But

1:38:41if he develops ten acre lots, he's increasing density on that road.

1:38:45No, well he's not increasing the density that's already approved. He's not increasing the density that's already approved. We can play we can play word games all day, Chris.

1:38:53I restate my sentence is if he develops the ten acre blots, he's increasing traffic on that road. And so you're based on what you're saying, that should not happen.

1:39:02No, that's not what I'm saying.

1:39:04Okay, so

1:39:04I'm arguing against the increase in the lots that it could have now, which essentially is a hundred and sixty trips a day. There's twenty five hundred acres of undeveloped land to the north on Trilby Road. I understand. If we l if we develop all of that at one to five, there's going to be a hell of a lot of traffic on Trilby Road relative to its ability to carry traffic. In a safe manner.

1:39:34Michael. So while you're here, um

1:39:42So do you believe it's inconsistent with the zoning that's there now?

1:39:48No.

1:39:48The request? With

1:39:51the zoning or the land use. Well it's c it the the request is consistent with the land use designation, which is sort of an anomaly in that read because everything around it is land use one to ten. But there's a lot

1:40:03of AR five in that area.

1:40:06There is a lot of ag in that area.

1:40:10Okay, well

1:40:10I'm looking at the zoning. There

1:40:12are

1:40:12plots probably grandfathered in that were that are non conforming from many, many years ago. I'll grant you that.

1:40:19There's okay, so what I'm hearing you say is it's consistent with what's there.

1:40:26Not entirely, no.

1:40:31So i in what way?

1:40:34Um because there's a great many one to ten acre lots in that area. The whole area is, again, AG on the comp plant except for that parcel. Mm-hmm. Which is AR5 on the Complant or AG R.

1:40:56I mean when I'm when I'm looking at the um

1:41:02the overview of the uh of the usage. I I see quite a bit of AR five there. So you must be looking at different plants or

1:41:13So can I ask I change my mind, you want to ask Mr. Wesley? Well I acknowledge that we don't have the deed restriction attached to the agenda so I don't have the actual language, but what it says in the agenda is that the deed restriction would limit the number of lots with access to the lake to no more than eight lots and prohibiting a community boat launch. So It sounds like it is going to prohibit a community boat launch. So

1:41:40I'm not

1:41:40sure if I understand your objection.

1:41:41I was told that they might have a community dock. And I was opposed to that because if you have a community dock, then you certainly have to have some sort of parcel or easement from somewhere inside the subdivisions of the wall. So

1:41:56if it was changed to prohibiting a community boat launch or dock, that would be more acceptable to you? More

1:42:01acceptable, yes, sir. It would be.

1:42:03Okay. I I just wanted to clarify that. Okay, got it. Great. Thanks.

1:42:07Good. Thank you very much.

1:42:08Thank you,

1:42:09Army.

1:42:22Mm-hmm.

1:42:25Good afternoon, gentlemen. Calvin Weiss. I live at [address removed], directly to the north of this parcel. Um I kind of wanted to start out and and and let you know that in addition to being an adjacent property owner, I'm also an architect, a certified general contractor, and a developer. Um so I understand the challenges. I also like to see the highest and best use of properties. I I've bought and developed and sold parcels that that neighbors

1:42:55have issues with. I also at one point in the past was on a planning commission and uh I I understand the challenges and decisions you all are faced with and I you know I want to thank you for your time and I know the sacrifices that you make to do this.

1:43:16It's uh the challenge I always had was when I was presented with self-created hardships.

1:43:24D things disguised as greed and then trying to weed those out from the people that are truly in need. And those were the challenges that I was always faced with and it was very difficult to uh to deal with those sometimes. This particular issue, as was stated directly in the community presentation by Mr. Hobby to us, was that this zoning change was for no other reason than to get more money for the property. He

1:43:56said at that time they had no real development plans for this property and that they had put together a sample plan of what might be put there but it was probably nothing of what would ever be there. They did it only as an obligation for this rezoning. I do have some images I'd like to put up.

1:44:20The first one's on top.

1:44:23I'm not sure if this was up previously, but this was the master plan that we were presented with at the community meeting.

1:44:32Which

1:44:35Showed a an access road kind of an easement that went in and developed only 13 parcels or so. At that time I think it had nine on the lake front and uh and then a few others. Um what they're not showing on there is that there is a permanent easement. Um Chip Easton can talk about, but that is a permanent easement that they can't disrupt uh or change, I would assume, without

1:45:05his permission. Um and and that's kind of what's on the north side of those larger parcels that they were showing there. But in essence, they really haven't they don't have any plans to do this. If you can see through the smoke and mirrors, it's it's simply a way of getting more value for this property.

1:45:26Oh And I I guess the other point is that at no point, especially since we're the North property owners and

1:45:40I'm uh the president for the property owners association that encompasses a significant portion around this property. that they never came to us, asked us for our input, listened to concerned, hear other options or suggestions we may have. I certainly have some with my background, and none of them were considered because they didn't hear them before they started to move forward. Um the next one also shows

1:46:10uh how this was divided up. I think we saw these earlier, they've now switched them from nine to eight. However, the language I heard does not prohibit community access to the lake. I think that's and that no parcel could be used for community access. That may help. um the previous concerns.

1:46:33Here we go.

1:46:36This next image is what I downloaded from the Pasco County website of the future land use map. Um I did a little cut and paste so that I didn't have to print this giant thing out for you. But you can see that a majority of the area is uh Is the next one enlarged in there? I think it may be the next sheet or not.

1:47:02Okay. Um everything is either point one or point two density, meaning ten acre for the light green and five acre for the dark green. The interesting thing is that to the north of the subject property it's five acre zoning in the future land use plan, but that happens to be Spirit Hill Subdivision and our covenants and bylaws preclude anything. smaller than ten acres. And we're in both Pasco and Hernando County. So The parcel is

1:47:32completely surrounded by a future land use that's supposed to be ten acres or more home sites. Did I give you a second one? Okay. Oh okay.

1:47:54So one of the other things that that I wanted to talk about was or the concern is how you know how this will affect the Northeast Pasco Rural Protection Overlay District. How will this rezoning conform to those requirements and how can you make sure we maintain the rural nature? I I I've read some of those covenants. It mainly speaks for buffers. It does not talk about neighbors. And all of the neighbors around this surrounding property, with

1:48:25you know how they address adjacent property owners, has somewhat been overlooked.

1:48:34I'm not sure if they address this, but we want to be assured that this can't be populated with mobile homes. That no mobile homes are. I did I hear them say that it could only be site built?

1:48:46By definition, AR five is site built homes only.

1:48:49Okay. Um so then I wanted to talk a little bit about the traffic in the road. I know everybody's been talking about it, and I know Chip's gonna talk about it. Um we've all heard previous statement about statements and and claims that this would not have an impact on traffic, um, that it wouldn't be much more than the egg that it was before. Um you know, it was citrus for decades, decades before I ever moved here. And we still have citrus. There's a 30 acre citrus grove right next to this parcel.

1:49:20The activity in there,

1:49:21sir. Yeah. Art did give us the courtesy of act asking for extra time before he came today. As well as the applicant did. I don't believe you did. So you're limited to three minutes and I know I've already given you more than that. Okay, can I finish up? Please do. Okay. I wasn't aware of that. Um

1:49:43I read those instructions when we began today.

1:49:45Excuse

1:49:46me? I read those instructions when we began today.

1:49:48Oh okay, that's fine. So two things.

1:49:57I'm gonna bring this one to the next one.

1:49:59Um

1:50:02This is uh this shows the subject property there in red. And the area surrounded by the red line represents Spirit Hill subdivisions and our adjacent neighbors that have all spoken to me and say that they are opposed to this. The the next image that I've got, when you incorporate it with everybody else that's spoken at this meeting and the previous meetings. Here's what you're left with. And and this is only the people that we've heard from. I haven't heard anybody in the neighbor neighboring areas say

1:50:33that they support this change. Thank you.

1:50:37Uh let me just clarify. It seems to me that your major concern was that he was gonna increase the value of his property by the rezoning. So you're concerned that he's gonna increase the value of his property, therefore he may may may make extra money on the property at some stage.

1:50:52No, that's not my concern. My concern is all the neighboring properties are ten acres or more. Well that's not what you said.

1:51:00He said the only reason he's doing this is to increase the value of his property.

1:51:07That's all we can see based on what's been presented thus far.

1:51:11Okay. I didn't know that was a crime.

1:51:14It's a constitutional right as far as I'm concerned. Part of living in the free country.

1:51:20Okay, who else would like to

1:51:21speak?

1:51:24Charles Easton, [address removed]. First thing I'd like to bring up is about the road. I measured it this morning. It's eight feet per lane. Eight feet. The average pickup truck is seven feet. So yes, I know that's an issue. We can't stop him from developing the property. It's his land. I I can't ask you to do that. I can't ask him to do that. All we're asking is he plays by the same rules we all played by when we moved out there. You saw the

1:51:54aerials, it's a very rural section. The other ones that Mr. Hobby referred to that are five-acre lots are down in O'Berry Lane, which is precedes the S-curve that's been raised in questions. But what's what's missing in the discussion is a lake in the middle. Pasco County has a number of lakes, yes. And each and every one of them is a jewel. He didn't try to develop those eight lots, now eight was nine. by accident on the lake. when

1:52:25he showed us his first conceptual drawing. That's his option to make money. That's fine. No problem. But what about the road?

1:52:35And what about the lake? If you can solve those two conditions, you got my support. I'm not going to stop anybody from developing the property.

1:52:44Well I think uh I c I think I can speak for all of us up here 'cause when I say that one of our main concerns when he was here last time and it's the reason that we continued this is to try to address the problems of a lake access. Because I wasn't I wasn't happy with uh having thirty-five people have access to that lake. I know if I lived on that lake, that would ruin it for me. And I I wouldn't I wouldn't vote for that, I wouldn't allow that.

1:53:11Well I

1:53:11I

1:53:11appreciate your empathetic value very much.

1:53:14And I think uh you know the road, I know it's a narrow two lane road. It's a beautiful road. I mean it's the kind of roads I love to drive on the weekend and just see where I end up. And uh I'd hate to see it changed. But I have to also balance that with what I think are the rights of people who own property on that road. And I can't give you a right to do something and not give him the same right. And

1:53:45it's not like he just came out there from uh Oklahoma and bought that property last year and now he wants to develop it all of a sudden. I mean he's he's been a longtime property owner in that area. He's paid his taxes for many years.

1:53:59Uh my I've also been there the longest everybody.

1:54:03Believe me, we all have.

1:54:04Right.

1:54:05And uh I just think we need to make sure that we are fair with everybody concerned. And I don't think it's gonna spoil the rural nature of that particular area of five acre tracks. Well I would a lot of five acre tracks out there. And we've limited the amount of access to that lake and that's what that was what was really important to me.

1:54:29I would say one exception to your statement there about the tracks. Uh in the drawing that Calvin showed of the proposed plan that Mr. Hobby showed us at the community meeting Uh there didn't look any rural conception to that type of drawing? That looked like a blocked neighborhood to me. Streets and avenues. So that I have a problem with.

1:54:54That doesn't I realize that. But if you if you give the approval now, who who has the approval later on for the site plan? We have

1:55:02to we don't get that discussion. That's something they have to come right back to whole nother time. And you'll be you obviously have to talk.

1:55:09The answer to your question is it staff administratively approves those, but there is notice to the surrounding problem. Okay. Thank

1:55:16you for your input. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

1:55:26Can I guess some? Like

1:55:34Yeah.

1:55:38Sir, do you want these back or are you submitting Okay?

1:55:42Okay, we have a motion to receive and file. I have a second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Can you state your name and address please?

1:55:50My name is Chris Baker. I live at [address removed] here in Dade City. Um I appreciate your time, your service. I I understand may be challenging. I I'm opposed to this mainly because of the one acre to ten, one to five. Um as you can see by the pictures I handed in that that lake is unique. And it it's special. There's a lot of wildlife there. There's a nesting pair of eagles that hunt there half the

1:56:20year. We see many eagles there when they come back in season. We see a great deal of hawk. uh cardinals, every type of raptor that Florida has to offer are are there. And and and I feel that It's worked to have you know ten acre lots. Why would we want to push it and try to get too many crammed in at once?

1:56:47Hey. The area has been and and I guess some some of you have been here for a long time and and understand that, but But Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have looked for Indian uh Native American artifacts on that land for a long time. Um the the Native Americans camped there, the the cattle guys camped there. Um so our fear is that you push too many, y five acres and too many too much activity around there it's gonna chase away some of these animals.

1:57:17And and I I've been blessed to live there since 2008. I've lived in Pasco for 42 years. I bought the land in O two and it's an amazing place. And and and I respect their their right to develop it. And uh y you know we're we're all about capitalism. And and we understand that. We just don't want to go too far too fast and have too much activity in in that area.

1:57:45We're just looking for responsible growth. We like growth. We love growth.

1:57:51That's all I have to say.

1:57:53Okay. Any questions from

1:57:56Draw up here. Nice pictures. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1:58:02Thank you.

1:58:05Sir, I just want to warn you that um there's no guarantee that when you get to the Board of County Commissioners that this is gonna get passed on to them. So if you want the same pictures to be be presented to the Board of County Commissioners, you need to bring another set. We yeah we could reprint. Okay, I just want to make sure you knew that. Thank you very much.

1:58:26But those were those were there on my lot, those are from my house.

1:58:29Thank you.

1:58:34Good afternoon, gentlemen. Diane Peterson, [address removed]. I'm a caretaker for the Harrisons on that property. Approximately a year or so ago. They started removing the pine trees, the dead pine trees, from the property in question. Right along Dowling Lake Road. Before they started that project, we had over thirty five wild turkeys that came on a daily basis every morning

1:59:04and every evening to roost around the lake. There's not one turkey left. And that's just with clearing trees. So what's gonna happen to the rest of our wildlife? around the lake that we all enjoy when you start building more homes. The people that live on that lake live there for one reason. It is their serenity, it's their peace of mind, it's their jewel. As my father in law stated before. It's his piece of heaven.

1:59:35He's lived on that lake for over twenty five years, as have the Harrisons and several other people. I haven't been the fortunate enough to live there that long, but in the short time I've been there, it's absolutely the most peaceful place on earth. with the exception of the motorcyclist and the bicyclists and all the traffic that gets deserted up from I seventy five when there's an accident that they bring all the traffic down Chilby Road. And I've been side swiped and h almost killed on those specific corners.

2:00:06in the two and a half years that I've lived there. So yes, I am one of those people who's very much against more traffic. But what I'm more against is ruining the nature that we have. I think we all can agree that Florida's wildlife is slowly but surely getting pushed out to smaller and smaller areas. We have a very unique opportunity to keep that from happening in the Dowling Lake area. And I'd very much like to see that happen. So I appeal to you to

2:00:36use your judgment and good wisdom to save what we have. Thank you for your time. Excuse

2:00:41me. Just before you go. You know, this is an argument that we hear a lot. Mm-hmm. And I just want you to s I just want you to think back on a time when the home you're living in there wasn't there. When the trees that were removed when the home was built were there. Mm-hmm. And the people that were there at that time preferred you not move there.

2:01:08I'm in a home that's been there for twenty five years.

2:01:10I don't care. What about the person that was there twenty six years ago?

2:01:14You know what? They

2:01:15didn't want to

2:01:15your attitude that you just said I don't care is

2:01:17what's

2:01:17wrong with this system.

2:01:19That that's the problem. That's what's wrong with the system is that you don't make allowances for anybody else beyond your own self.

2:01:30That's up to you. Yes,

2:01:32my God didn't write.

2:01:35Dang.

2:01:37Mr Chairman M. My and and I r I respect the lady who just spoke and I mean wildlife is a concern, but I just I'm sorry, I drove I drove up there um Of course I live out in this in Dade City, but I drove up there this morning. I drove down Spirit Hills Drive, like Spirit Hills Drive, and I did see four turkeys this morning. Mm-hmm. I just I just want to make su you

2:02:07know, I see there I mean, yes, any time houses come in it will impact, but you're right. I mean there's a what I mean we have to be careful, but there's a balance.

2:02:19Cutting down trees does not get rid of turkeys. The coyotes get

2:02:21rid

2:02:22of the turkeys.

2:02:22Yes. And so So there were turkeys there this morning on on that road.

2:02:27Would

2:02:27you go catch her, please, and

2:02:29let her know? Well, she'll let you up. All right.

2:02:35Nancy Hazewood, [address removed]. This is in the Northeast Rural area and even though I'm not a neighbor, I can assure you that the people that spoke today were indicative of people that live out in the Northeast Rural area. We are desperately trying to keep it rural. Uh Moving it, I'd like to see that Land use and zoning stays the same out there. Basically,

2:03:06because once you start changing the zoning, the next person down the line wants it too. And then it goes up a little bit more and it goes up a little bit more. Also

2:03:16But you see what you're saying? You're saying exactly what I just told that lady. You know, years ago. That property was probably a hundred acres. It was the smallest track out there. You know, and then people like us, you people in this room, came out there and they wanted to live there because it was so beautiful. And they wanted to share it because they you know they didn't want to do that. How are

2:03:40we going to keep it stabilized then? How

2:03:44when do we put a wall at the entrance to Florida and keep it?

2:03:48Well my suggestion has always been you decide how much the infrastructure and natural resources can support and then limit people in that way. But I understand people want to make money. I'm just

2:04:02still make money on advertising it in the right way because it is beautiful. The other thing I wanted to point out is that people that move in want more amenities. So if we don't watch out in that way, we're gonna have Blanton Road flooded with um commercial. And of course we have not had our commercial anything commercial or otherwise written about the Northeast Roll Area Plan. If you come up with a way so that we don't end

2:04:32up not being rural anymore. I definitely want to hear it. We'd love to sit down and meet with you. We keep trying to work with the county on this. There are a lot of people out there and we want the large landowners to make money. But We wanna stay rural. If you do put something in, we hope you'll make it look rural. Make it look good so a cow looks good walking through it. Thank y'all.

2:04:55Thank you for coming. I appreciate that.

2:05:04Good afternoon. My name is Judy Geiger. I live at [address removed] in Dade City. The one thing that I want to interject into this conversation Is Troby Road is a scenic rural road in your Pasco County? Comprehensive plan of 2025. It's FLU 2.1 point. ten through twelve. And it says the county is required to discourage the expansions of scenic rural roads. And I know there's been a lot of discussion about

2:05:34what the developer would do with this road. Uh so I need you to consider that it's a scenic rural road. It's not supposed to be expanded. Thank you.

2:05:45Yeah.

2:05:49I'm sure the applicant would agree to not expanding that road. Yeah. Good afternoon, gentlemen.

2:05:54Yes. My name is Scott Travis Peterson. I represent George L. Peterson. Unfortunately, he was at the VA today. He was not allowed to make it. My issue and my dad's issue. is not necessary. I live on Dallin Lake. Matter of fact, I'm the guy who mows it. I'm the guy who takes care of it. From the beginning all the way down the last And because I do that for my neighbors. But Mr. Massie has taken Dalling Lake for his own.

2:06:25That never Mr. Massey never had that on his property. Y'all have taken Dowling Lake and given it to Massey for this development. We haven't the way he is, sir. We we haven't given him anything. I'm saying if you do, that's what's happening. The road Dowling Lake is private. We've aspholded it. We have a nice drive.

2:06:46Let me just clarify something to you. We're not here to discuss the access from Dowling Lane. We're here only to talk about the zoning.

2:06:56Sir, it's all in the planning. You have to do something to Downing Lake.

2:07:00We don't have to do anything with it. We're we're only doing this.

2:07:03Then you're gonna

2:07:03move

2:07:04when then Dowling Lake should stay ours if that's

2:07:06Mr. Massey makes it not right.

2:07:10I'm saying well wait a minute Massey's Massey's saying Dowling Lake is his.

2:07:16Well that's what I'm saying. We're not a court that d makes that kind of a decision.

2:07:20Sir, what we're trying to say is that the private road was never in the planning. Who put it in the planning?

2:07:25I'm not gonna argue with it because I don't know. Okay. Well

2:07:28in this planning also the lake. Again, nobody's thought about that lake. What are you gonna do when developing? Everybody's developed.

2:07:41And to another month until we could meet again to talk about it. Has anybody done any restricted the access to it? I maybe you weren't at that meeting.

2:07:51been to the planning meeting. I'm also with Mr. Easton. We get told one thing in a planning and stuff. He did make an arrangement to only put eight And Rick Seth. No more than eight, but then we're gonna make a party place. We can't have none of that. Let's put it in the planning now. When Dowling Lake gets taken out and y'all want to use Dowling Lake, let's make it a nice road. Let's make it a county. Two-way. Dowling is one way. One way in, one way out. We have to move over and get in my property

2:08:22for my neighbors to go by. And Mr. Massey's not putting anything out there. You're gonna have the planning should be that that's a two-lane road. And it goes right down. the straight property, not what he wants to put in. We want to keep our private road. I want to keep that

2:08:42try what I'm trying to tell you is that's not a decision that we make here. I

2:08:46have Santa.

2:08:47Okay. And if it was, we'd be happy to help you.

2:08:49Okay. So l as far as the zoning goes, we aren't you're right. We can't bite the guy. But in Mr. Massey, he's been Mr. Pittman that owns a property. We all have out there own big property like that. They do hay. The citrus plants went downstream, they changed it to hay. Evans, Massey, Hancock C Everybody's making money except for Mr. Pittman and Massey because they didn't do what the proper stuff for that property should have been. They could have done different

2:09:19investments, but they didn't. They could have done stuff different. The man wants to make extra money, you can't buy him on it, sir. But you're right. I can't fight about how much of the property and the way it should be planned.

2:09:32Right,

2:09:32I

2:09:32can.

2:09:33Thank you.

2:09:33Thank you.

2:09:36As far as the the the lake, he's the majority landowner of the lake.

2:09:42I mean he owns the largest section of it.

2:09:47Yeah.

2:09:49Yes, ma'am.

2:09:51Sylvia Kelly, [address removed], right on the lake. I just want to try to enlighten you a little bit on the curves or the worst part of that road for more traffic, whatever it is. There's culverts, deep culvert, there today. If you went out there today, did you notice by the curve that somebody has gone up the road there down into the ditch? And then a little bit further back down the road they'd gone up the road into the trees on this side. Now I know that

2:10:21I drive by there and there's semi trucks coming down there because they cut through. So it is a dangerous road for all of us that are out there, but because we You know, we go out, we try to take care of that. Um not to but it is pr a problem. There's also there were no pictures of it, but from uh Blandon on up there's a concrete culvert to bring the water down. So if you go off the road there you're gonna hit the culvert. Now the lady who lives across the street from the corner did go out

2:10:51in the middle of the night where she heard a car crash and found the dead person. in the car with their flashlight. So there has been a death on the corner. Um the other thing I want to address was you, Mr. Gray. Um you keep Reiterating that we don't want the people to make money. I want anybody to make money. No, I didn't bring

2:11:14that up at all. Excuse me, Ms. One of the people at Camp Here said his main objection was that the person was rezoning it because they wanted to increase the value of the property. Okay. He heard that he heard that. As far as I'm not uh concerned, that's not criminal.

2:11:29Okay, I didn't say it was, but I'd like to finish My sentence.

2:11:32Go ahead.

2:11:33Um

2:11:35Pasco County designated that area as ten acre lots. Ten acre I don't know the terminology and I'm not correct. But we went out there and bought because it was a ten acre lot and that the area was supposed to maintain ten acres. Like we said, the five acres are down the street and they're off to the side. And they're farther back so the traffic's not gonna be coming that way. But Um, when we moved there, just like everybody's moved somewhere. We

2:12:06wanted to stay within the ten acres. So we abided by the law of what it was that the county has done. But now you want to say that we don't want them to abide by the law. We do. We want them to make it ten acres and keep it rural. That's all we're asking you to do. Keep the law the way it is.

2:12:26Thank you. Ca can I ask a question? If we rezon the area out there, would she therefore have two five acre lots? Because we are rezoning the whole area or are we

2:12:36rezoning just

2:12:37a little bit?

2:12:37We're only rezoning Mr. Massy's property. Just his property. Right. We're not rezoning anybody else's property. Yeah.

2:12:46I wouldn't address that. Yeah. Let's rezon that.

2:12:48Yeah,

2:12:49I'm

2:12:49sorry. Your time's up.

2:12:50No, I didn't use my three minutes. But it is, it's the truth. Then I want to rezone mine and I'll put my five acres down and

2:12:57application and we'll talk about it.

2:12:59Thank you. That's some kind of root to it.

2:13:03If your question is could it set a precedent for other people to do it, yes that's possible. But today's action is not rezoning any property other than Mr. Massey's property.

2:13:13Mm-hmm.

2:13:16Is there anyone else?

2:13:19What was your name? Mr. Chairman Clark Hobby again I'll keep it short.

2:13:25after all of the work that we did on the Northeast Pasco Special Rural Area, The board came up with a whole series of policies to encourage and try to keep this area rural. And that involves three future land use classifications: AG 1 to 10, AGR, 1 to 5, and Res1, 1 to 1. Subsequent to the adoption of the plan, the board voted to change this property to A. AGR

2:13:56one to five. All we're doing is rezoning to the one to five. AR5 zonings are not unique, they're not new to Northeast Pasco. I did a quick survey and I found 22 of them since about 2000. I also found in that same period of time and while Mr. Woodworth was on the board on the Planning Commission. The board unanimously approved seven different AR five rezoning, all of which were

2:14:26on substandard roads, and three of which were in northeast Pasco. So the arguments you're hearing ring hollow. We're going to do a responsible thing over time and we'll probably end up with the same beautiful type community they have to the south side of the lake. Happy to answer any questions.

2:14:44Can you clarify the point about the swimming area?

2:14:47Excuse me, sir.

2:14:48You

2:14:48clarify

2:14:48the

2:14:49swimming area question. This the swimming area, what specifically? Are you talking about the dock? Oh, you're talking about the No, we're not we're not proposing that and we have no objection. Mr. Goldstein, if I can find the language in there, I think in the finding of fact number one where it says talks about the deed restriction, saying no more than eight lots and prohibiting a community boat launch or dock. We have no objection to that.

2:15:17So you're you're okay with adding or docking?

2:15:18They're going to be lots.

2:15:20So you're okay with adding community riveting community boat launch, docks, and beach, all of them.

2:15:26Right.

2:15:27Okay.

2:15:29Mr. Chairman M I'm gonna move for approval. I've there will be discussion obviously, but I'm gonna put a motion on the floor.

2:15:35Okay. I'll say I could have we have a second. Okay, discussion. I have a question.

2:15:41And I don't know if it's for Mr. Hobby or Denise. So so in you know just look poking around there. So you see Mr. Pittman's property. Well immediately to the east in the bottom right-hand corner of his property, there are two five-acre lots. So those legacy are those I'm I mean and I look around there and there's other five acre lots right in that same area. So Has that been there for a long time and was

2:16:11that before zoning or did that come about or do you know?

2:16:15So so here's a a general answer to this question that gets asked quite a bit in the zoning world about AC lots that are between five and ten acres. Here's a very interesting factoid about AC zoning. A C zoning. was always a ten acre minimum lot size. However between nineteen eighty nine In 1989, the Board of County Commissioners changed the AC to be five acre lots. In nineteen ninety,

2:16:45one year later, they changed it back to ten acre lots. So you will see a lot of AC legacy lots out there that are either what we call small lots of record, which existed prior to the enactment of zoning in 1975, or you'll see that they existed between the time frame of 1989 and 1990, which is when A C which is was a five acre lot. So that's without looking specifically at those parcels, that's the answer that I can provide.

2:17:10Yeah, that's sufficient. Thank you.

2:17:11You're welcome.

2:17:14Okay. Any other questions? Any other discussion?

2:17:19And we have a motion and a second. There's no further discussion. All in favor of the motion signified by saying aye.

2:17:26Can I just clarify that's with the amended condition one that prohibits the talks or finding one that also prohibits docks, community docks and community beaches? Is that

2:17:37What was the last the last term that you used?

2:17:42Or beach.

2:17:43Or beach.

2:17:44I just want to make sure that was part of the motion.

2:17:49Okay. That being part of the motion, we have a second again. Yes. Okay, any further discussion on that motion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Motion carries.